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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Trump Greeted with Pomp and Protest in U.K.; Trump Meets with the Queen amid Controversy; Trump and First Lady Arrive in Scotland; U.S., Russian Presidents To Meet Monday In Helsinki; Police Bottle In Victim's Home Source Of Nerve Agent; Controversy, Protests Mark U.S. Leader's Visit; Trump Trashes May In Tabloid Interview; Melania Trump's Quiet Day In London. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 13, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:35] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Hala Gorani live in front of the Houses of Parliament tonight.
It has been the sort of day that makes your head spin. Where Donald Trump goes, usually a slew of headlines follow. And his trip to the United
Kingdom is no different.
The U.S. President has flown out of England, at the same time as thousands upon thousands of protesters march through the streets of London to show
their dissatisfaction and opposition to his visit.
When I spoke to you 24 hours ago, President Trump was at Blenheim Palace being treated to a grand banquet by Theresa May. That meal had barely even
finished when a bombshell dropped.
This interview in "The Sun" newspaper with the President was wide ranging and deeply controversial. Here are some of what he said about Brexit
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would have done it much differently. I actually told Theresa May how to do it, but she didn't
agree -- she didn't listen to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you say?
TRUMP: She didn't listen. I told her how to do it. That will be up to her to say. But I told her how to do it. She wanted to go a different
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: As you can imagine, the interview caused waves at home and abroad. After all that the President had to spend the day with, you guessed it,
Theresa May. So it isn't surprising that the eyes of the world were on the Prime Minister's country residence of Chequers for their prescheduled news
conference. What would he say? Would it be tense?
But if you thought the reception would be icy and cold, you would be very wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This incredible woman right here is doing a fantastic job, a great job and I mean that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And what of that special relationship that has been so vaunted between the U.K. and the U.S.? Well, President Trump said it could not be
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I give our relationship in terms of grade the highest level of special. So we start off with special. I would give our relationship with
the U.K. and now especially after these two days with your Prime Minister I would say the highest level of special.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So there's special and then there's the highest level of special. Another big topic in that controversial "Sun" interview was immigration.
And it was something Mr. Trump was keen to talk more about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it has been very bad for Europe. I think Europe is a place I know very well and I think that what has happened is very tough. It's a
very tough situation. I mean you see the same terror attacks that I do.
I just think it's changing the culture. I think it's a very negative thing for Europe. I think it is very negative. Look at what's happening to
different countries that never had difficulty, never had problems.
It's a very sad situation. It's very unfortunate, but I do not think it is good for Europe and I don't think it is good for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Countries that never had problems before immigration. Of course, Donald Trump referencing immigration to countries like Germany that has
welcomed more than a million immigrants from war zones like Syria and Afghanistan.
Theresa May has had a busy week herself. She started it fighting to keep her government together after two very big resignations, one of them, Boris
Johnson. Well, he got some kind words from the lectern, but not from his former boss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They asked about Boris Johnson, I said yes. How would he be as a prime minister? I said he would be a great prime minister. He's been very
nice to me. He's been saying very good things about me as president. I think he thinks I am doing a great job.
I am doing a great job -- that I can tell you just in case you haven't noticed. But Boris Johnson I think would be a great prime minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: If both leaders thought that bombshell interview in "The Sun" would be swept under the carpet by the press, they were wrong, of course.
And when it was brought up, the President -- the U.S. President, went back to a very familiar refrain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It didn't put in what I said about the Prime Minister, and I said tremendous things. And fortunately we tend to record stories now, so we
have it for your enjoyment if you would like it. But we record when we deal with reporters. It's called fake news. We solve a lot of problems
with the good old recording instrument.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:05:06] GORANI: All right. Well, the good old recording instruments were used actually by "The Sun" newspaper, and he is calling portions of
his own interview fake news.
"The Sun" newspaper is owned by Rupert Murdoch, an ally of the President. Later on the free-wheeling press conference, Mr. Trump had more to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have to say, I said to that paper, "The Sun", and they seem like two very nice people, but I said that Theresa May is -- one of them is
nice. But I said -- where is that person? Did I say nice things about Theresa May, please? Good. If you reported them, that's good. Where, on
I said very good things. Thank you very much for saying that. No, I said very good things about her. I didn't think they would put it in, but
that's all right. They didn't put it in the headline. I wish they put that in the headline. That's one of those things.
And she's a total professional. When I saw her this morning, I said I want to apologize because I said such good things about you. She said don't
worry, it's only the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Don't worry, it's only the press. Echoes perhaps of fake news accusations coming from the President? Theresa May, by the way, laughed at
that line by Donald Trump. And all of that was just a part of one news conference, but the President wasn't done there.
Up next was to call in for tea just outside of London in Windsor. The person he was visiting just happens to be one of the most famous people on
earth, the Queen.
The Queen was waiting, by the way, for Donald Trump and the first lady Melania for several minutes. As you can imagine it was -- and you saw it
there -- all pomp and ceremony. He met with the head of the royal family, inspected the front rank of the guard of honor, and posed for the playing
of "The Star-Spangled Banner" before heading inside for tea.
Queen Elizabeth II has met every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower with the exception of Lyndon B. Johnson. Lyndon Johnson never made it to the
U.K. during his presidency.
Well, this is all playing out against the backdrop of mass protests in the city -- tens of thousands of people taking to the streets of central London
to protest against President Trump and to protest his policies. They chanted Donald Trump is not welcome here and held signs calling him things
like "American psycho".
Several groups have staged demonstrations, including the women's March London and the Stop Trump Organization. Earlier protesters released a
giant orange-colored balloon of a Trump baby in a diaper to fly over Houses of Parliament. There it is.
So that was going on today -- tens of thousands of protesters; and Nick Paton Walsh, our senior international correspondent is in Trafalgar Square
with more -- Nick.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Hala -- the rain is coming down now in Trafalgar Square where a few hours ago actually
police were saying protesters needed to stop coming because it was becoming overcrowded and they were clogging out the arterial roads -- tens of
thousands eventually arriving here, marching from Oxford Circus down Reading Street (ph) to here Nelson's Column.
Below the fountain, people were eventually dancing, celebrating -- a relaxed atmosphere but you could not mistake frankly the vitriol towards
the White House occupant. President Donald Trump, signs frankly half of which were so profane we couldn't really have broadcasted them -- varying
degrees of humor being used. But essentially the racism, anti-immigrant and sexism which many people here saw at the heart of Donald Trump being
the vitriol being -- what most of the voices were expressed again.
It's been an extraordinary 30 hours, frankly Hala, or so that he has been in the country, during which period of time he met the Queen, had the pomp
and ceremony of Blenheim Palace, been to Chequers, seen a military display, undermined substantially the service Prime Minister of his closest ally,
Theresa May and then said he didn't mean it, and also pumped up a potential political rival.
None of that really seems to matters to the people here because they always despised, I think it's fair to say what Donald Trump stood for. They don't
represent all of Britain, but frankly most polls suggest about one in ten person think Donald Trump is doing a good job. And it has been an
extraordinary spectacle frankly to see what's happened in the past day or so.
Some of my colleagues from British journalism are walking past literally looking like they'd been hit by a tsunami. It's been very hard frankly to
digest exactly what he intended to do by coming here and it's left many individuals confused.
[15:10:00] What's not been confusing though is the message sent here in central London, just by the tens of thousands of people on the streets but
also to -- quite a geography, Hala -- as you pointed out, he literally had the gentlest touch in central London, landed in the U.S. government
property of the ambassadorial residence are Regents Park for a matter of hours, overnighted there, used it as a resting place but never came near
the institutions of power and the monarchy of Buckingham Palace and Parliament.
His only likeness there, the closest he got frankly was that blimp you saw and in one instance a man -- a Trump mask dressed as a gorilla. It's been
good humor, the protests here but frankly, we could be in absolutely no doubt at all that he shouldn't be hurrying back and expecting a warm
welcome -- Hala.
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh -- in Trafalgar Square, thanks very much.
Well, as Nick was mentioning it is starting to | rain, the weather is turning a bit so perhaps the crowd is dispersing for that reason.
Let's discuss all of this further. Freddy Gray is the deputy editor of "The Spectator" and he joins me here in London, Anne McElvoy is a senior
editor at "The Economist". She will join me later.
So Freddie -- First of all, what did you make of the news conference? Because we all got whiplash after that "Sun" interview where basically he
said the opposite of everything he had been quoted as saying in that "Sun" interview.
FREDDY GRAY, DEPUTY EDITOR, "THE SPECTATOR": I'm afraid I thought it extremely funny. And I think it is just very hard to keep a straight face
when Trump makes the situation so absurd.
I mean you have this intense awkwardness between him and Theresa May and he kept trying to address it by being very nice -- as nice as he could about
her. But you could tell his heart wasn't really in it. You can tell she's very uncomfortable with him.
And I think I just find it very funny. I know these are grave matters of state that ought to really matter a lot, but he is reducing politics to a
farce, and it is quite hard not to laugh.
GORANI: You're say perhaps it's wrong to giggle at the Commander-in-in chief is what you wrote today.
GORANI: These are great matters of state. Perhaps we're witnessing the collapse of western democracy and the liberal world order. Perhaps we are
witnessing the opposite? Nobody can tell but who knew it would be so rip- roaringly funny.
GRAY: Did you not find it quite funny?
GORANI: Well, I think I found it more -- I mean it is difficult to follow because you're always having to kind of cover in a whiplash --
GORANI: -- 180 manner one thing and then it is the opposite, and then wondering which one is actually the policy position --
GRAY: It's very disorientating.
GORANI: -- right --
GORANI: -- in this case. But it just appears as though the President here and his team were attempting to dial it back, dial that "Sun" interview
back a little bit because they realized it was damaging, don't you think?
GRAY: I think they did. But I mean they wouldn't have done -- you know, I think at some level they know what they're doing. It maybe unconscious but
certainly he is trying to signal to the world that he is on the side of a hard Brexit. And then he meets Theresa May and he says whatever the person
he is with wants to hear, right.
And it is hilarious. But also -- I mean British politics is in such a mess at the moment, I just think (ph) it's refreshing. It is what we need. We
need to recognize the fact that we're in a terrible state over Brexit. The Tory Party is completely riven (ph). And actually Donald Trump exposing
that rift is not necessarily a bad thing.
GORANI: But how will this affect Theresa May domestically, do you think?
GRAY: I think actually she came out -- I mean for me, I find her always quite offputtingly (ph) staid. But I think she came out ok.
And I think Trump actually helped her when he said -- at the end he said, you know, she said to me about the interview that's just the press.
GORANI: You thought that was ok?
GRAY: And all journalists instantly say she won't appreciate him saying that. But I think the public will think it is just the press. I mean, you
know, "The Sun" obviously wanted him to say these things.
GORANI: But it's different saying that to Donald Trump than saying it to another president which is Donald Trump life motif is always fake news,
fake news. He again attacked CNN for being fake news.
GORANI: You know, this is his refrain.
So her kind of reinforcing that message by saying it is just the press is different had she said it to another president or another world leader.
GRAY: Like you, I am a journalist and I am not sure it is good for us. But I think people do think there is a lot of fake news out there. They
don't really buy that Trump is fascist. They think he is silly. They think he is very funny.
And to them -- you know, him --
GORANI: In the U.K. as well?
GRAY: Yes. I mean including the U.K. I think there's a pomposity among kind of the media class, if you like. But Trump punctures and people enjoy
seeing that being punctured.
GORANI: And what about -- so he told "The Sun" one thing about Brexit and Theresa May and the assembled journalists at Chequers another, that
whatever the U.K. decides is fine with us in a sense as though the U.K. needed America's permission to choose one course or the other.
GORANI: But which way then is the country going?
GRAY: Well, I mean we don't have to --
GORANI: Do we know?
GRAY: -- listen to Donald Trump. I mean important as America is, it is not America's decision.
GORANI: No, quite but he is presenting it as though somehow his suggestion would have an influence on what course --
GRAY: Well, I think it should. I mean America is an important ally. I think when he is so confusing I think we don't have to take him that
seriously. And I don't think we should.
[15:15:00] And what -- so what the softer sort of Brexit that Theresa May floated to her cabinet members, is that where the U.K. is headed?
GRAY: Well, I don't think she's got the votes. I think she's in an impossible -- she's in an impossible situation. Whether Trump has actually
helped her by exposing how impossible her situation is, is quite an interesting question.
GORANI: Freddy Gray -- as always, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
It is really coming down hard now.
GRAY: We have very good weather for a long time. So this is more British.
GORANI: I'm never ever going to say this again but we need a good downpour in London.
Still to come tonight, a visit many thought they would never see. We'll have the details on Trump's royal welcome when we return.
And later 12 Russian military officers indicted for interfering in the U.S. election, all this just days before Mr. Trump meets with Vladimir Putin.
We'll be right back. >
GORANI: Well, it's a visit most of the world thought might not happen -- the U.S. President Donald Trump meeting England's Queen Elizabeth at
Windsor Castle with plenty of distinctly British pomp and ceremony on display. Meanwhile, there were massive protests against the American
President taking place across England.
Parliament said Trump would not be welcome to address the chamber. That happened in 2017. And in 2016, the British people petitioned to bar him
from entering the country. But Mr. Trump was instead warmly welcomed by the Queen today. And after the inspecting of the guard they went inside
Windsor Castle for a meeting and, of course, a spot of tea. And President Trump is now on his way to Scotland for a trip to one of his hotels and
CNN's Max Foster is live at Windsor Castle with more on Trump's visit.
I was -- one thing I found, Max, puzzling and, you know, enlighten me on whether or not this is typical. But the Queen waited for seven or eight
minutes on her own for President Trump and the first lady. Is that unusual?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, she came exactly on the time that they were expecting him to come. I think what you had there was
the Queen out getting ready for the moment and showing how important she thought it was.
Initially we thought she would come out and was expecting him at a particular time. But I think there's some confusion between when the
helicopter was landing and when he was due to arrive in the quadrangle. So everyone at the palace was expecting him to arrive at the time he did.
So he wasn't actually late. In fact, all went rather well because in the end, he left 18 minutes after he was due to leave. And normally these
things run like clockwork. So I think the Queen probably thought it went quite well in the end and so did Donald Trump.
And what was quite interesting, Hala, was we were expecting all sorts of, you know, faux pas in terms of etiquette and protocol but he seemed to
follow everything by the book. And he must have been told how to go about these things because it really was done as you would have expected.
Anyone really -- but not necessarily a head of state, they don't have to do as, you know, mere mortals like you and I do. They're meant to be at the
same status level.
[15:20:05] GORANI: And do we know what they talked about?
FOSTER: No. No idea. And the etiquette is that you would never divulge what you spoke to the Queen about, partly because -- well mainly because
she's an apolitical figure with all of the, you know, other elements of this you've been reporting on today.
Yf all of the huge, you know, political turmoil within Downing Street and within Westminster today her job, more than ever, was to rise above
politics, to stay out of it, and really just to asset Britain's relationship with the United States, and try to safeguard that special
But it was interesting to see how Donald Trump handled it because there are all these rules. You know, she always prompts the handshake and she
withdraws from the hand shake as well, she prompts the conversation. He was led by her on everything.
And there was a slight awkward moment where he seemed to lose her at one point when they were inspecting the guard -- she was behind him. But it
was one of those moments where, you know, he was looking for her to show her -- show him the way rather than, you know -- as is often the case with
Donald Trump -- him going his own way. He really did seem to fit in there. And that's quite interesting. You don't often see him sort of, you know,
being reverential to anyone, really.
GORANI: How was the decision made to organize this visit to Windsor Castle and the way that it was organized, I mean the inspecting of the guard and
that type of thing. Because you're -- we're seeing video, by the way, clearly where the Queen is behind him, trying to catch up.
Who makes the decision as to how grand, as to how special to make a visit to the Queen?
FOSTER: Well, it has become a set format now. So you've got a state visit which is obviously set with its, you know, the carriages and the cavalry
and the state banquet at Buckingham Palace.
This isn't a state visit, although that is still planned. And you know, the invite is still open to President Trump to take that. The ball is
entirely in his court I'm told.
This is a working visit. And working visits are often held her at Windsor Castle because the Queen is basically here most of the time. And this is a
standard format for visiting heads of state now.
So what he had there was nothing special actually. There was a sense of nervousness about it, of course, because it was such an important visit.
And the Queen is really there to serve her government. And the government made it very clear to the palace this is an extremely important visit. So
there was this heightened tension here today.
But thankfully it all went to plan. The question now is whether or not Donald Trump divulges any of that conversation which is the one thing they
probably would have done (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: Thank you, Max Foster in Windsor. We're seeing Air Force One land in Glasgow, Scotland by the way. The President is going to be overnighting
at one of his golf courses and hotels in Turnberry, Scotland. Glasgow International Airport -- the President and the first lady and the
We're seeing onlookers there as well right outside, on the other side of the fence there looking at the -- observing the plane land.
Max -- you're still with us. The President now is spending a few days in Scotland before he heads to Finland.
FOSTER: He is. And no one is giving us any information about the Scottish leg of this. This is seen as a private part of his visit. Obviously
everyone assuming that he is up there to play golf on his courses and, you know, to promote them as part of this as well.
But the only on the record stuff we've had on this is from the British ambassador or the U.S. ambassador to London saying that this leg of the
visit is all about preparing for the Putin meeting.
Lots of sort of research on that we're told and to get his messaging right. And it does feel doesn't it, Hala, as if a lot of this -- NATO, the British
visit has all been part of a big buildup to that, you know, benchmark moment really in Helsinki.
GORANI: And then there was that whiplash moment this morning when during the news conference the U.S. President seemed to completely contradict what
he told "The Sun" tabloid in that interview about Brexit, about Theresa May, about his thought on Boris Johnson, the former foreign minister in the
FOSTER: It was. But it was interesting about turn, wasn't it? Because he then accepted and admitted that he had been, well, he's just been
misinterpreted by "The Sun" newspaper, and then he had apologized to Theresa May.
This big frustration appears to be that all the good things he said about Theresa May weren't included in the newspaper. But really, you know, her
benchmark issue, the policy that will define her legacy is Brexit and he did throw an absolute bombshell in there. But then after the meeting, he
said it was a good meeting.
[15:24:54] And now that he realizes there can be a U.K.-U.S. trade deal that, you know, this Brexit deal issue hadn't undermined that then perhaps
it would work. And he apologized and said they could all move on.
But nevertheless, it was very damaging to Theresa May. She did what she could to get out of that. But the politics here is still very muddy. Will
the U.K. get a deal with the U.S. if Brexit falls through and we end up with as hard Brexit as it is called?
So, a huge amount of pressure on Theresa May today. She tried to get out of it. Donald Trump tried to help her out of it. I am not sure it
GORANI: Max Foster is in Windsor.
Freddie Gray joins me again here in London. And Turnberry is where the U.S. President had some -- made some comments about Brexit the day after
the referendum. But he said several times now that he had predicted Brexit when he was in Scotland.
GRAY: Well, I think this might be the deepest insult that Donald Trump has given to Britain, he just doesn't remember his trip here before. I mean I
was there at Turnberry the day after the Brexit vote. It was an extraordinary press conference.
And yet he said both in "The Sun" interview and in the press conference today --
GORANI: That he predicted Brexit.
GRAY: -- that he was there the day before and that he'd predicted it. And not only that, some people on Twitter pointed this out, but Melania Trump's
press officer has said no, I was there, it was the day before.
So it is sort of interesting insight into Trump land where, you know, the truth is what you want it to be rather than what it is.
GORANI: Right. Quite elastic.
GRAY: Very elastic.
GORANI: And also -- but he repeats something that we have proof is not true.
GORANI: He was not -- he did not predict Brexit on June 23. He reacted to Brexit the following day.
GRAY: Unless he did a clandestine, stealth mission into Turnberry the day before the Brexit vote which I think we would know about. It can't be
GORANI: But also then in that case he wouldn't have told reporters. It would have been -- he would have said in private.
GRAY: He's right in a sense. He did do an interview a few weeks before that vote saying -- I am not sure he actually predicted it but he said I
expect they'll -- I suspect the British will vote out. So he did predict in that sense, but he's blurred it all in his mind because ultimately I
think Britain isn't that significant to him.
GORANI: Right. And is Max Foster is still with us in Windsor?
Yes, Max -- so what we're seeing here are images from Glasgow International Airport, Air Force One has just landed. We're expecting the President and
first lady to -- I guess, I think they're -- are they choppering to Turnberry?
FOSTER: They would be, yes. I mean last time I was there, he took the Trump chopper there. But obviously he's got Marine One now. So that's the
best way of getting there. Certainly the Beast would struggle over those local Scottish roads. It will get stuck as it's been known to get stuck in
the past. So he'll certainly be heading to Turnberry there.
And it's a lockdown area, it's pretty secure. But it will be interesting to see whether or not he does do any more media. We know that Piers Morgan
in the U.K. has managed to get a half hour interview which we'll be airing on Monday. But it will be interesting to see any more coming out of that;
presumably that will based on Putin, considering the timing of its forecast.
GORANI: And pretty great -- Piers Morgan with not his first interview with the President.
GRAY: No. He's got --
GORANI: He's a big defender of the President of the United States here in the U.K.
GRAY: He's got -- he has great access to Trump. But I have to defend Piers Morgan. He is a very lonely voice of being, I wouldn't even say pro-
Trump, just not totally hostile.
GORANI: Well, he is more than not totally hostile.
GRAY: He's a friend and a bit of a suck up --
GRAY: -- but that's ok.
GORANI: They've known each other for a long time when they worked on "The Apprentice" together.
GORANI: They have a relationship going back a few years.
So we'll see what they discuss in this half hour interview that we expect to air on Monday.
Now, this joint news conference today, what else stood out to you? He praised Theresa May. He talked also about the annexation of Crimea, and
big foreign policy issues like that and then blamed Barack Obama for that rather than President Putin.
GRAY: Yes. Well, you know, this is in anticipation of Helsinki and meeting Putin. I think he's very keen to talk about relationship and the
importance of relationship with Russia and with China. And again, I think that's actually not -- a lot of people don't disagree with him on that. I
think a lot of Brits certainly would think well, yes that's perfectly presentable.
I think a lot of Brits think all government have to (INAUDIBLE) Russia can be a little bit excessively paranoid. Obviously we've had a poisoning here
which has shocked and horrified a lot of people. But this idea that Russia hacked Brexit like it hacked the Trump election is gaining ground.
GORANI: But there's a lot of reporting suggesting that there was some interference in the Brexit referendum --
GRAY: There was some box on Twitter --
GORANI: -- by Russian interests.
GRAY: I don't think it is very substantial yet. I have no doubt Russia has tried to influence both British democracy and American democracy.
Quite how successful it was or how much that matters I have my doubts.
[15:29:59] But there's a pattern here. I mean to those who criticize Russia for its attempted interference or its interference in the democratic
process in western countries. First with the 2016 election and perhaps with Brexit, we'll see what comes out of that. There is a pattern here.
But you're saying in the U.K., maybe there is a belief there is some paranoia there?
FREDDY GRAY, DEPUTY EDITOR, THE SPECTATOR: Well, there are shared interests between Trump and Putin against multinational international
organizations like the E.U., like NATO. They agree on that.
GORANI: Does that make sense for the U.S. president and the Russian president to be on the same page with regards to the E.U.?
GRAY: I don't think it necessarily means they're in cahoots. I don't. I think it's an instinctive --
GORANI: I'm not saying that. I'm saying, why are they ideologically aligned on this one sense?
GRAY: Because they're nationalists. And that's not necessarily the most evil thing in the world. And I think a lot of British people perhaps
because we have been very much by Russia today, being on our channels too. I think that the Russia men as while significant is not Britain's most
GORANI: There's a difference between being nationalist and being isolationist and nativist. I mean, and those other things are very
damaging. You know what I'm saying?
GRAY: Yes. Well, we do hear this word, particularly for the Trump concerned isolationist and protectionist a lot. I mean, there's an element
of protectionism in Trump. I don't think America is close to being isolationist yet. I think we're a long way from that.
GORANI: All right. But you know some of your colleagues would disagree with you.
Here, we're seeing the president, the First Lady Melania, and entourage as well, getting ready to deplane at Glasgow Airport. Glasgow Airport, sorry.
Kind of pronouncing that the American way. Sorry. Who's expected to welcome him? The Scottish secretary, David Mundell is expected to welcome
him on the tarmac and he's going to make his way with at least aboard Marine One to one of his golf courses in Turnberry.
GRAY: It wouldn't be Nicola Sturgeon. It could be better to throw that.
GORANI: I think we can be sure of that as well. He had some issues with a wind farm outside of his golf course in Scotland, didn't he, the president?
GRAY: Yes. It appeared to have bothered him greatly. And in the sort of mad few days of Trump was elected and he met some of these bad boys of
Brexit, quite figures on the right here, and one of those bad boys of Brexit revealed Trump had said that he was particularly bothered about wind
farms, and he didn't like having to look at them, and he wanted Britain to get rid of them. And this story took on a life of its own and became a
kind of minor scandal in Britain, but it's another source of amusement, I'm afraid.
GORANI: Yes. You find all of this entertaining, Freddy.
GRAY: I know. It's because I'm a very shallow person, I'm sure.
GORANI: Here in Britain, though over -- I mean, look at the protests. Now, of course, it's pouring down with rain.
GRAY: Also our protesters have gone no battle. The British should be staying out in this weather if they really care about it.
GORANI: Well, I don't know what the season is like in Trafalgar Square, but they were out for hours today, the baby balloon and the rest of it.
There is a lot of opposition in this country to the president.
GRAY: I looked a bit at the protests today, and I've seen the protests in America. And I find there's a coarseness and a vulgarity within the
protests and I find it very odd that they object this very vulgar, sexist figure. But all the signs are about, I can't repeat them on television.
They're all very vulgar and coarse. And I find it interesting mirroring.
GORANI: They're not presidents of --
GRAY: Yes. But if you want to object -- if you want to object to someone on moral grounds, try being a little less -- a little more decent, I'd say.
GORANI: I think that's - well, not all of them are holding up coarse and vulgar signs.
GRAY: Not all, but a hell of a lot.
GORANI: Now, we are going to see the first lady and president come out any minute now. What did you make of the queen visit? Because there was at
one point, the president was walking ahead of her. How did brits react to that visit?
GRAY: I think a lot of brits want to fantasize, and I suppose I do too, that the queen will find this absolutely appalling, having to deal with
this ghastly man. And it's because we're slightly snobby about Americans and we like to think that American president. Even (INAUDIBLE) Trump is a
little beneath us. We've got an older culture and our monarchy is very special. The truth of it is that Queen Elizabeth II has dealt with far
worse people than Donald Trump. She's hosted far worse people than Donald Trump. She had dinner with some awful dictators. And it's part of her
job. She doesn't actually complain about it.
GORANI: I'm joined by David Smith, hello, of The Guardian.
[15:35:00] DAVID SMITH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE GUARDIAN: How are you?
GORANI: Freddy Gray of the Spectator. Do you know each other?
GORANI: Oh, well, I'm glad I made the introduction.
Let's talk a little bit about as, David, we're expecting the president, by the way, and the first lady to appear here -- there in Scotland. The
president and his entourage will be spending a few days in one of his hotels and golf courses. What do you make of today's news conference with
the prime minister, who was quite an about face, wasn't it?
SMITH: A damaged limitation exercise and I suppose I would smugly claim as I predicted there would be an about face. Because we've seen that pattern
before. Donald Trump will say something in a tweet or to a journalist when the person he is talking about is not there, in this case Theresa May. But
then when he's actually sharing a stage with that person, there's some backpedaling and damage limitation.
GORANI: How do you know what his position is?
SMITH: That's a very good question. I wish I did know his position.
GORANI: What does he really think about Brexit? How do you report on that?
SMITH: With difficulty. I mean, I think on the Brexit question, everything we know about him calling himself Mr. Brexit to his supporter --
somewhat rivaling populist around the world would suggest, he probably is getting favors a hard Brexit and the man who he says America first would
probably say go for Britain first and chime with Nigel Farage. But often he leaves us wondering what's going on. I'm a little surprised on this
plane, we haven't had tweets sort of changing his position once again.
GRAY: I agree with what you say. I think we can be fairly sure he would prefer a hard Brexit to a soft Brexit. Those two words in his head. He's
going to prefer the word hard.
GORANI: And we're seeing Melania Trump there, by the way, just letting our viewers know, she's dressed in sort of a -- it looks like a Barbour jacket.
I'm not sure. But anyway, quite a British looking.
GRAY: We need to see the back of it. Don't we?
GORANI: Yes, what's written on the back. And the U.S. president there. And they will be choppering on Marine One to Turnberry in Scotland where
the president has one of his hotels, golf course hotels.
So, I agree with you, given everything he said, I think we can kind of educe from all of that that a hard Brexit is the president's preference.
Where does this leave Theresa May?
GRAY: Well, I think -- the British presence is going to make a lot of, hey, out of the Boris Johnson remarks. He reiterated that he'd think he'd
make a good prime minister. This is seen as a terrible dis to Theresa May and Britain. I don't think he meant it as a terrible dis. I think he
thought -- I can say he'd be a good prime minister and I can say Theresa May is an incredible woman and is doing a great job.
GORANI: Well, he lavished praise on her, a terrific woman, smart, determined, I'd rather have her as a friend than an enemy.
GRAY: Yes. There was also the particularly revealing remark when he said I had breakfast, lunch, and dinner with her yesterday. And tomorrow -- I
said, what are we doing tomorrow? And I said, oh boy, we're having breakfast, lunch, and I'm even seeing her again later.
GORANI: But, David Smith, there was a moment where we thought this relationship was the one that the president had with Emmanuel Macron in
France and that disintegrated quite quickly, didn't it?
SMITH: It certainly and I want to take cuts both ways. For all those tens of thousands of people on the streets of London here today, do they want to
hear their prime minister lavishly praised by Donald Trump or would they actually prefer her to stand up to him?
GORANI: The Love Actually moment?
SMITH: Indeed. Hugh Grant lettering about standing up to bullies in that film. So you're being praised is not necessarily a great political assets.
I suspect when the dust settles, I think people will move on as a general understanding including in Westminster that Donald Trump is a bit of a
loose cannon. He'll chop and taste by the minute and shouldn't really have the final say on which way Brexit goes.
GORANI: They're driving off now. Matthew Chance is in Helsinki, our senior international correspondent, he will be covering the Trump Putin,
the highly anticipated Trump-Putin summit. What's the expectation based on what we heard from the president today in the U.K. about what will happen
in Helsinki on Monday?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in normal circumstances, Hala, you might think that the indictments of 12 Russian
nationals with a lot of evidence in terms of the allegation against them of hacking the U.S. political system, would have been enough to perhaps put a
big question mark over the summit on Monday which has been planned with Vladimir Putin of Russia, but of course these aren't the normal
circumstances, and we've seen little indication from the White House that this is going to do anything but go ahead as planned. President Trump has
called the situation, the investigation into collusion between his campaign and Russia a witch hunt, and we've heard similar language -- well, the same
language, in fact, from the Russians as well.
And we've also within the past few minutes seen the first denial that has been made public by the Russian authorities when it comes to the
allegations, again, the indictments of these 12 Russian nationals by the U.S. justice departments in these allegations of election meddling. The
foreign ministry saying Washington is struggling to reanimate old fake news about Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election. It's just a
heap of conspiracy schemes is what the foreign minister statement says. The purpose of the story, the bogus story, is to spoil the atmosphere
before the Russian-American summit. And so the Russians are denying it as they have done in the past. They're casting it as politically motivated,
which I suspect that the kremlin hoped will kind of create a bond with President Trump because he also sees this investigation as I mentioned as a
political conspiracy against him. Hala.
[15:40:43] GORANI: All right, Matthew Chance there in Helsinki. David Smith, Freddy Gray, what do you -- I'll start with you. What does the
president want to get out of Vladimir Putin at this summit do you think?
SMITH: If I'm brutally honest, I think it's personal prestige. We know that so far in the White House he has really gravitated towards
authoritarian strong man, and whether it's Kim Jong-un, and I think it'll be a repeat of that meeting in many ways, and he's also praised the
Philippines and whereas in the past few days we've seen attacks on Democratic leaders such as Merkel and May. So I think it's about
flattering his ego and I'm not sure what obvious real policy objectives there are. And unless you do take the view that there is a grand master
plan to really undermine the post-war western order of liberal democracies, hence, the criticisms of NATO partners. And in which case, we may see some
rather stunning concessions to Putin perhaps on sanctions or elsewhere.
GORANI: That hasn't happened yet though. For all of those who say Donald Trump is kinder to Vladimir Putin than to traditional U.S. allies, the
sanctions have largely remained in place. That hasn't happened.
Freddy, what do you expect from Helsinki?
GRAY: I think he'll be keen to certainly make tough, if you'd like, I think he'll try and emphasize that Putin is not his best buddy. And I
think he will be keen to tell the media afterwards. The thing about Trump is that he's wild but he's actually quite predictable. I think we can tell
that he will come out of that meeting and say, I had some very tough things to say to Vladimir Putin. That may not be true, but that's certainly the
impression he'll try and give across.
GORANI: And, Matthew Chance, lastly to you. What do you think Vladimir Putin wants from this meeting with the U.S. president in Helsinki? What's
his objective here?
CHANCE: Well, I think the fact that the meeting is being held at all and that Vladimir Putin is able to sit one on one with the president of the
United States is something of a political victory for Vladimir Putin. Remember, he's been isolated by much of the world and sanctioned by the
United States and its allies for various malign activities. It's been characterized around the world, from the annexation of Crimea, the
involvement in Syria, the Ukraine conflict, the shooting down of an MH17, the meddling in the U.S. election. All of these things have led to
prolonged period of isolation of Russia by the much of the rest of this international community, and that's essentially coming to an end with this
one-on-one meeting, sort of cold war style summit with the leader of the United States. So that's on one level. The Russians have already got what
But they're also going to be looking for what concessions they can eek out of President Trump. I mean, he's already suggested a few days ago at the
NATO summit in Brussels that if President Putin asks him to, he would consider discussing ending military exercises in the Baltic, for instance,
which is random thoughts that the -- President Trump put out there. And so the Russians are going to be very smart about this, I suspect, and they're
going to see what they can get from him, sanctions alleviation, perhaps not. But they might be able to get something else.
[15:45:19] GORANI: Matthew Chance, thank you very much.
Just minutes ago, the U.S. president landed in Glasgow. He's greeted by the Scottish secretary, David Mundell. He's headed to one of his golf
courses in Turnberry, Scotland. I want to thank my guests David Smith at The Guardian and Freddy Gray of The Spectator, for joining me.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, a new indictment in the Russia probe headed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. A U.S. grand
jury has charged 12 Russian intelligence officers over interference in the 2016 election. We'll have that story coming up. Stay with us.
GORANI: Welcome back. Police say they have found the source of the soviet era poison that killed a British woman here in the U.K. It is a bottle
discovered in the home of Dawn Sturgess' partner, Charlie Rowley. It's not clear that the Novichok though, and this is crucial, it's not clear whether
or not this Novichok is from the same batch that sickened a former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter last March. Police are
investigating Sturgess' death as a murder and Rowley, her partner remains hospitalized.
Another headline. Some Democrats in the United States are now demanding that Donald Trump cancel his summit with Vladimir Putin after a bombshell
new indictment. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein announced that 12 Russian intelligence officers have been charged with conspiracy as part of
Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. They're accused of hacking into Democratic Party networks in an effort to interfere with the election
back in 2016. The top Democrat on the senate intelligence committee had this reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: There should be no one on one meeting between this president and Mr. Putin. There needs to be other Americans in
If the president and his team are not willing to make the facts of this indictment a top priority of the meeting in Helsinki, then the summit
should be cancelled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the indictment says the Russians corresponded with several Americans during their interference operation, but Rosenstein says there's
no allegation, quote, in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. Let's bring in White House reporter Stephen Collinson.
So when Rosenstein was making this announcement, almost at the same time the U.S. president was meeting with the queen.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. It was really quite incredible. I think it was another sign of how this
investigation has absolutely dogged President Trump from his first hours in office. And almost seems like every time that he's going to get a
favorable headline, that he starts to get out from under this something happens and brings the whole issue of Russia alleged collusion and what the
campaign did back into focus and that was certainly the case.
[15:50:14] I think what's extraordinary about this particularly is that President Trump knew before he left the United States earlier this week
that this indictment was coming down. It's not clear that he knew of the exact timing which I think will certainly anger him, but he went into that
press conference with Theresa May and called this investigation a rigged witch-hunt, which was the sole reason why America's relations with Russia
were in trouble. In the full knowledge that this detailed indictment of what is clearly a Russian attempt to attack America's democracy, he knew
that was coming out, he still went ahead, and talked about a rigged witch- hunt. And I think that's really something that's going to cast a cloud and make the summit between the two presidents Monday in Helsinki even more
surreal than it would have been in the first place.
GORANI: And some Democrats in the United States are saying this summit should be called off.
COLLINSON: That's right. A lot of senior Democrats quickly came out, and said the summit should be called off. They've now been joined by a
Republican Senator John McCain who you know is a real noted Russia hawk. He's saying that if the president is not prepared to confront Vladimir
Putin with the evidence that's unveiled in this indictment, then the summit should be called off. I think where it's any other president of the United
States, it would be very unlikely that this summit would go ahead within three days of indictment like this. But both President Trump and Vladimir
Putin clearly have a lot of skin in the game in the summit. They both really want it to take place. I don't think there's any expectation that
the White House will turn around and say, look, we're not going to hold the summit.
In fact, the White House reacted to this indictment by basically pointing out Rosenstein's comments that you noted that there was no evidence in this
indictment of any involvement by Americans and therefore they concluded well, this shows the president has done nothing wrong and his lawyer Rudy
Giuliani also made similar comments, saying it was time to wrap up the Mueller probe completely. That's incredible in itself because there's been
opinion no condemnation by the White House of the Russian actions that are unveiled in these allegations. And when you think of it, the primary duty
of the president of the United States is to protect the country against attacks like this one though seemed to have unfolded in the Russian
intelligence operations. So just another very, very strange day in this sort of saga of Donald Trump and Russia.
GORANI: Right. And there were also some strange moments in the U.K. as you know, that news conference that the president held with Theresa May
after they met at Chequers outside of London, the country residence of the prime minister, so there was that bombshell Sun tabloid interview in which
the president criticized Theresa May's Brexit strategy, lavished praise on her main rival, Boris Johnson, essentially said threatened, no beneficial
trade deal if Theresa May continues to go down this route. Then said the exact opposite of everything he was quoted as saying in The Sun newspaper,
and even called portions of his own interview fake news. So we all got whiplashed once again.
COLLINSON: Right. And if you are watching that news conference in Britain and you weren't familiar with how Donald Trump operates on a daily basis in
the United States. You might have been shocked and surprised by that, but the funny thing about it, it's not shocking and surprising at all. This is
exactly how the president behaves. It was somewhat interestingly, he said he apologized for that interview or at least the way The Sun handled the
interview to Theresa May. The president doesn't apologize to anybody, so it does seem that he was somewhat chagrinned. But there's every chance
that the president will get back on Air Force One when he's flying back across the Atlantic and start tweeting the opposite thing. I mean, that's
the way it works. He's someone who operates by instinct in the moment. He doesn't think very much about diplomatic niceties and protocol by doing
something, for example, like giving an interview to The Sun on the day before you meet the prime minister. But that's the way Trump operates.
He's so different than any other leader.
GORANI: Right. And then he again talked about immigration, one of his favorite refrains, that immigration is bad, that it's diluting European
culture and that type of thing. This is something he says over and over again. Also immigration is bad for the United States. That is something
that his base certainly appreciates. Thanks very much, Stephen Collinson in Washington.
So as we've been reporting, it was quite a day in London. President Trump's visit sparking controversy, protests, and turmoil in the capital.
CNN's Erin McLaughlin was with the demonstrators.
[15:55:09] ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anti-Trump protests happening across London. Here, you can see they stopped just outside of
Downing Street, a mini version of the Trump baby balloon. We're asking people here one simple question. Why are you protesting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it's our opportunity to make our voices heard that we disapprove a pretty much everything that Donald Trump is and stands
for and has done so far as president. That's it. Simple as that. We can make our voices heard. Hopefully someone will notice. I don't suppose
it'll change his mind about anything, but it makes us all feel a great deal better.
MCLAUGHLIN: Why are you here protesting?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I'd like my children to grow up in a world that cares about people and cares about planet, and I don't think Trump
represents either those things.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're basically protesting, because we don't welcome Trump, we don't welcome his politics, we don't welcome his xenophobia. You
know, he's stoking the fires of racial hatred and xenophobia all over the world.
MCLAUGHLIN: Hi. We're just asking everyone here just one simple question. Why are you here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm here because I'm the mother of two daughters. I'm here because Trump is against everything from breastfeeding being
supported from the U.N. to climate change to the future of the world, taking other people's children away from them. And I have to stand up
because what kind of a world are they going to end up with if we don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's always been the gay community's fight or it's been black people's fight or refugees' fight per day. And I think this is the
first time that I can recall where all of us have gotten actually something really important that will unify us and we'll realize that together, we're
going to make a bigger difference.
GORANI: Well, America's first lady had a busy, yet quieter day than her husband. Before she met the queen, Melania Trump spent much of the day
with the Prime Minister's husband Philip May. The two toured the Royal Hospital Chelsea, meeting veterans and children. They were warmly
received. They helped make a red paper poppies, a symbol of those who died serving their country. Then it was off to lawn bowling where Mrs. Trump
received a few pointers from some younger experts. Quite a contrast to the controversies surrounding the president.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.