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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Bolton: Trump Discussed Election Interference With Putin; London Killing Sparks Debate About Drill Music; Apple Becomes First Trillion- Dollar U.S. Company; Screening Could End At Smaller U.S. Airports; Record Heat Causing Deaths, Discomfort. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 2, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from London, I`m Hannah Vaughan Jones in for Hala Gorani. Tonight, CNN asked
the White House repeatedly, are the media the enemy of the people? We couldn't get a clear answer, the extraordinary exchange in just a moment.
Also, ahead, Zimbabwe's contentious election gets even more tense with the opposition party claiming they've won. We're going to be live in Harare.
And more on the debate over drill music and another killing on the streets of London. Our report this hour.
Welcome again, it was a simple question. Yes or no? A question that is critically important to the functioning of American democracy, but the
White House refused to answer it kicking up a firestorm of controversy just a short time ago.
CNN's Jim Acosta got into an extraordinary exchange with the Press Secretary Sarah Sanders asking her about Ivanka Trump's break with her
father's repeated claim that the press are the enemy of the people. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: ... follow up on Sara's question from NPR, she asked you about Ivanka Trump's statement that the press is not the
enemy of the people, and she asked you whether or not the press is the enemy of the people. You read off a laundry list of your concerns about
the press and things that you feel like are misreported, but you did not say that the press is not the enemy of the people and I think it would be a
good thing if you were to say right here at this briefing that the press, the people who are gathered in this room right now, doing their jobs every
day asking questions of officials like the ones you brought forward earlier are not the enemy of the people. I think we deserve that.
SARAH SANDERS, PRESS SECRETARY, WHITE HOUSE: I think the President has made his position known. I also think it's ironic ...
ACOSTA: Would you mind telling us ...
SANDERS: I'm trying to answer your question. I politely waited and I even called on you despite the fact that you interrupted me while calling on
your colleague. I said it's ironic ...
ACOSTA: ... which is my I interrupted, but if you finish, if you would not mind letting me have a follow up, that would be fine.
SANDERS: It's ironic, Jim, that not only you and the media attack the President for his rhetoric when they frequently lowered the level of
conversation in this country. Repeatedly, repeatedly the media resorts to personal attacks without any content other than to incite anger.
The media has attacked me personally on a number of occasions, including your own network, said I should be harassed as a life sentence, that I
should be choked. ICE officials are not welcome in their place of worship and personal information is shared on the internet.
When I was hosted by the Correspondence Association, of which almost all of you are members of, you brought a comedian up to attack my appearance and
called me a traitor to my own gender. In fact, as I know - as far as I know, I'm the first Press Secretary in the history of the United States
that's required Secret Service protection.
The media continues to ratchet up the verbal assault against the President and everyone in this administration and certainly we have a role to play,
but the media has to role to play for the discourse in this country as well.
ACOSTA: And Sarah, if you don't mind - if I may follow up, if I may follow up, excuse me. You did not say in the course of those remarks that you
just made that the press is not the enemy of the people. Are we to take it from what you just said, we all get put through the wringer, we all get put
in the meat grinder in this town, and you're no exception and I am sorry that that happened to you. I wish that had not happened, but for the sake
of this room, the people who are in this room, this democracy, this country, all the people around the world are watching what you're saying,
Sarah, and the White House of the United States of America, the President of the United States should not refer to us as the enemy of the people.
His own daughter acknowledges that and all I am asking you to do, Sarah is to acknowledge that right now and right here.
SANDERS: I appreciate your passion, I share it. I have addressed this question. I have addressed my personal feelings. I am here to speak on
behalf of the President. He has made his comments clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Well, Jim Acosta, who you saw in that exchange there with the Press Secretary was heckled so much at a recent Trump rally that he said it felt
like he wasn't even in America anymore. I mean, he just tweeted about his exchange that we just saw there at the White House, and Jim said, "I walked
out of the end of that briefing because I am totally saddened by what just happened. Sarah Sanders was repeatedly given a chance to say the press is
not the enemy and she wouldn't do it. Shameful." Let's bring in CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter live for us.
Brian, it still makes me kind of mad when I hear that exchange back again. To be fair though, I'm wondering if you think it's unrealistic of us to
expect the Press Secretary who is the spokesperson directly for the President to contradict him?
BRIAN STELTER, SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, the exchange with Sanders is definitely just a symptom of a much broader, bigger disease.
President Trump has been poisoning the American people with anti-media rhetoric for quite a while, and Sanders, I think she's in a difficult
position here where she feels she can't contradict her boss, but as a result, it is essentially the position of the Trump administration, not
just the President himself, but the administration that journalists are the enemy of the people.
Enemy of the people, of course is an echo of rhetoric used by Stalin, used by other authoritarian leaders in history, enemy of the people is a term
that's been used to suppress dissent and actually, destroy populations.
So, it has a terrible historic connotation. But President Trump has been using it more often recently because it gets aroused out of people, it
upsets journalists, it makes his crowds go wild. It is something that is very effective for him. Unfortunately, he is not thinking about the
consequences, which we have seen in other countries, the term, "fake news" for example has been appropriated in other countries in order to hurt, and
in some cases imprison journalists. The term, "enemy of the people" has a similar dangerous power.
The President doesn't care about that. He cares about getting a rise out of the press and making his base feel good. I mean, I think it all comes
down to that.
JONES: Yes, so Sarah Sanders feels like she can't contradict her boss, but Donald Trump's daughter certainly feels like she can contradict her father.
Take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ALLEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, AXIOS: Do you think that we're the enemy of the people?
IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: Sorry?
ALLEN: Do you think that the media is the enemy of the people?
I. TRUMP: No. I do not.
ALLEN: A point of view that's shared in your family?
I. TRUMP: Are you looking for me to elaborate?
I. TRUMP: But no, I do not feel that the media is the enemy of the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I mean, Brian, you seemed kind of surprised that she was even asked that, but then she very clearly said that the media is not the enemy of the
people. Do you think Donald Trump might listen to his daughter?
STELTER: Well, credit to Mike Allen there by asking a very simple question. I agree with you. She did seem a little caught off guard by it.
She wasn't expecting it. Sometimes, those kinds of simple questions about the President's extreme and awful rhetoric elicit really interesting
responses, and I think it's worth nothing Ivanka Trump's integrity in that moment, where she simply said, "No, of course not." Essentially, the enemy
of the people are not the press et cetera.
Sarah Sanders on the other hand did not show integrity in her answer and I think this divide is something that is going to be explored now by other
journalists when they are interviewing other Trump administration officials asking this same question to see what kind of response we get.
Now, ultimately, what the President and his aides are trying to do is say that real reporting can't be trusted or trying to prop up an alternate
universe of information where Trump is the hero and past Presidents are the villain or that Trump is a hero and the press is the villain. They are
every day, trying to construct that alternate reality and days like this help them do that in some ways.
JONES: Yes, and we talked a lot about just the phrase, "enemy of the people." Sometimes, we can take all of that as journalists, right, but
it's when it turns into being something slightly more dangerous and we talked a little bit, before coming to you, Brian about the kind of abuse
and harassment that Jim Acosta has experienced just in the last week. Let's just remind our viewers of what he experienced at a Tampa rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: CNN sucks. CNN sucks. CNN sucks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I mean, it's disgusting some of the things that were being yelled out at Jim when he was just trying to do this job there. At what point
does this become inexcusable? What point does it come - should we get to the point where Donald Trump has to say something about it?
STELTER: Well, I think we're past that point. But I don't expect the President to try to rein in his crowd. To the contrary, he has been
encouraging this and trying to keep it going. He sometimes will get up there and act like the orchestra conductor when the crowd is chanting
against the press.
This is his strategy and it is a big part of his midterm election strategy, to turn his base, his voters against the press so they don't believe the
real reporting about the Mueller investigation and other scandals and controversies surrounding this President. It is an incredible test for
American democracy to see what the outcome of this is and I wish I could sit here and say, I know, but I don't know. I can't predict what the
answer is, when you have a part of the population that is being told every day by the President, do not believe what you see, do not believe what you
That's why I say, it's a slow acting poison. It's the kind of things that's trickling through the veins over time and we see it at these
rallies, and by the way, there is another rally in four hours. The President will probably continue this later today.
JONES: And we will probably have to be talking about this a lot more. Brian, thanks very much for your analysis.
STELTER: Yes, see you soon. Thanks.
JONES: See you soon. Okay, now, a capital deserted and riot police on guard. We turn our attention to Zimbabwe now where in less than one hour,
we are going to get the results of the country's hugely contested election.
Police say six people are now dead after violence in Harare on Wednesday and in another major development, 18 people have been arrested after a
police raid on opposition party headquarters, but throughout all of this uncertainty, one voice is speaking out with clear conviction, that of 40-
year-old Nelson Chamisa. He says he is the man who will take charge of the nation.
Let's bring in CNN's David McKenzie there who is on the ground for us in Harare, the Zimbabwean capital. David, good to see you. Chamisa then, he
says that Emmerson Mnangagwa has accepted that he has lost simply because he hasn't claimed victory yet. What is the feeling there on the streets of
Zimbabwe as to who has won this battle?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, that might be a bit premature from the opposition leader, Hannah because in fact, the results haven't
even been announced, and as you say, within the next hour, we expect some of those results or all of them, we don't know yet how many of the results
will come out from the election headquarters behind me.
This has been a very tense few hours, the day in fact here in the capital, Harare in the morning, we saw military moving through the streets telling
people to get out of town, to leave the central business district. You had that standoff at the party headquarters of the Movement for Democratic
Change and as you say, that ended in a raid of that building and several people being arrested and carted off as well as possibly evidence that
government in their - well, the police, the forms that they were using to try to get in there, they were saying they wanted to potentially seize
computer equipment and weapons.
That has been rubbished by the opposition. I spoke to Nelson Chamisa and here is what he had to say about this election which he has repeatedly said
has been rigged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: They haven't announced any of the results yet, how can you say that there has been rigging?
NELSON CHAMISA, ZIMBABWEAN POLITICIAN: Well, we also have our own intelligence. The delay should tell you that there's been attempt to try
and massage the outcome because we know the tallies at constituents' level. Our audience have told us, our parliamentary candidates have the result,
because it's every constituent. Before the counting is done, the collation for the parliament, it is done on the presidential. So if the tally for
all the presidential across the country.
MCKENZIE: The government is saying it is irresponsible to call out for your supporters to protest?
CHAMISA: Well, it's not irresponsible to respect the constitution. The constitution gives the right to demonstrate and the right to protest. So
why should it be criminal when it is in the constitution. If there is a problem with the constitution, they must change it.
MCKENZIE: If they announce that Emmerson Mnangagwa is the winner, will you accept that?
CHAMISA: We can't accept the fallacy - the fiction and falsehood. You know, we are truthful people. We won the will of the people to be
respected. No amount of fidgeting with the results is going to alter the will of the people of Zimbabwe. People want change and that change we are
going to deliver.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Well, the President Emmerson Mnangagwa has remained relatively quiet. He blamed the violence and the killings that were resulted from
when the army moved in to protesters with very chaotic scenes yesterday in Harare on the opposition and their calls for protest. He says he has
reached out to have discussions with Nelson Chamisa, but in fact, Chamisa telling me that no such discussion has happened.
So, we are in this tense moment, awaiting the results to come out and the reaction from particularly the opposition should they not get what they say
is a foregone conclusion.
JONES: Yes. The reaction from both sides, I guess, David, we're expecting that result in the next hour as well. We've already seen so much violence
on the streets as well, six people killed - is the feeling amongst observers, journalists and the public there in Harare that either way
whoever is declared the winner in all of this, there is going to be more violence on the streets.
MCKENZIE: It's too early to tell and there have been even talk of more military coming on to the streets here in Harare even though it's
relatively empty at this stage, so the power of the state is certainly in full force. Both the police, the riot police and the military are making
their presence felt at key institutions here in downtown Harare, such a huge change of course from November where we were in the streets with
ordinary Zimbabweans celebrating the end of the rein of Robert Mugabe after more than 30 years in power.
There was such optimism at that point. Today, my sense is from people on the street is, some just want it to be over, whichever the result is, say
they want to get on with their lives and the economy to come back. Others, those more politically minded are worried that ...
MCKENZIE: ... it might be more of the same, more of what they saw during the Mugabe years and they are fearful for their families in the coming
JONES: And David, we know you are there across the story and of course those results as they come in the next hour, they are expected. David
McKenzie, live for us in Harare, thank you.
Still to come tonight on the program, Pope Francis makes stunning comments on the death penalty. Could the world be one step closer to abolishing
capital punishments? And then why Iranian military exercises like this are so concerning to the United States right now. We'll be right back.
The US Defense Department is keeping a very close eye on the Persian Gulf as officials tell CNN that Iran is now conducting a major military exercise
in the region. Now, we've seen this kind of show of force from Iran before, but the timing of these exercises is unusual as they normally
happen much later on in the year.
Officials believe Iran may be responding to rise in heated rhetoric coming from the United States and could be trying to prove its ability to shutdown
a key shipping corridor. Let's get more on all of this now. Our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is following developments
from Abu Dhabi. We're also joined by our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr. Welcome to you both. Nic, to you first. These are massive
military drills currently underway, possibly blocking off as we were just saying very, very important international shipping corridors as well.
What's the message here that Tehran is sending to Washington?
NIC ROBERTSON, INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR, CNN: There isn't a public message. I mean, that's what we know at the moment. They are not talking
about these military exercises, but the very clear military message is particularly because the boats that are assessed to be involved are small
boats, and typically those are the boats that have been used in the past to attack shipping lanes, not necessarily here in the Strait of Hormuz
recently, but if we think about in Yemen, Bab-el-Mandeb, the Red Sea, where just a couple of weeks ago, Houthi rebels who are believed by many to be
backed by Iran attacked a Saudi oil tanker and damaged it there. And earlier in the year, had attacked another tanker with small boats.
The message seems to be one of a warning. We've heard from the head of the IRGC - the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, we've heard from the
President of Iran, we've heard from the Supreme Leader of Iran saying that if Iran cannot ship its oil products out to the Strait of Hormuz, 20% of
the world's oil supplies go through there, a very narrow strategic military and commercial waterway, if the Iranians can't, then no one can. That's
what they've said. So, this is why it's so concerning.
JONES: And Barbara, to you then, the United States must have known that this is possibly one of the retaliatory tactics that the Iranians would use
against those sanctions that have been imposed, extra sanctions, other than watching as these military exercises take place, what else can the United
BARBARA STARR, PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, you know, they are commenting on it publicly from the Pentagon, from the US military and the
Central Command which oversees operations in the region and that is not insignificant because they normally don't comment on any of this. They
want to put their name to it. They want to be in public saying, we see this, we're watching it, we're watching carefully. And that is a message
back to Tehran, "Have your exercise, but don't cause trouble. Don't mess, if you will with petroleum exports out through the Strait of Hormuz."
The US doesn't see a hostile intent per se by Iran right now, but the scope of the exercise, the fact that it is so large, perhaps they can muster up
to 100 small boats. That's the concern. You can have miscalculation. You can have them approach cargo ships which aren't used to this kind of thing.
It can be very unsettling and oil markets can be very fragile, all you need is an incident of a perception of an incident, the US military doesn't want
to see it overwhelmingly. The US military wants no surprises in this region of the world.
JONES: Yes, but it must still be a priority then for the US Navy at least, the fact that these exercises are ongoing and they could have such huge
consequences if indeed they do go wrong. I mean, is there a chance, a possibility of some kind of military intervention?
STARR: Well, you know what would the US military and the allies, the nations in the region plus the European allies which have assets out there,
ships and aircraft assets, the US would not go it alone. They would try and assemble a coalition to deal with this if they had to, and there is a
couple of options. It would depend on what if anything the Iranians did, would they try and stage a blockade? Would they try and use these boats to
swarm another ship, war ship out there?
What has happened in the past, we have seen the US Navy and the allies, they will use their warships to escort commercial cargo vessels through an
area that has become very sensitive like this, nobody wants to see a shooting match if you will, but you could eventually perhaps, if it got
really bad see some escort operations going on.
JONES: And Nic, finally to you, I mean, the Iranians are about to have even more sanctions imposed on them, I think next week, a fresh round of
sanctions imposed from the United States, it is inciting a lot of protest in the country itself and one gets the impression perhaps that this kind of
response to those sanctions is the only weapon in the Iranian arsenal. Is that fair?
ROBERTSON: You know, I think Iran in terms of its political makeup isn't homogenous. There are hardliners and moderates and the current President
who negotiated the nuclear deal that President Trump pulled out of is seen as being a moderate. We could be seeing hardliners flexing their muscles
I think it's worth noting here that when these sanctions relief or these sanctions come back into effect in a couple of days' time, they are only
going to be - and I say only because these are still very significant, but they will affect the buying of dollars in Iran, the export of graphite, the
export of other minerals, the export or the sale of gold - things like that whereas, it will be another 90 days before Iran's ports, Iran's oil, Iran's
shipping is impacted by these sanctions.
So, we're still some ways away from the sanctions that would actually have a more direct impact on what the Iranians have said they are concerned
about with reference to the Strait of Hormuz. So, I think while the economy is hurt hard in Iran and it is suffering, the rial is down about
25% this year, the Iranian leadership is going to be concerned about protest on the street. The reality is that these sanctions are only just
about to begin to kick in, so the effects could become worse.
So we may be at the beginning of something here and as Barbara has said, that is the concern because if we are at the beginning of it, a trigger
could come up anyway along this process and it's got many - it's got a long way to go yet.
JONES: And that you'll be watching it, both of you will, Nic Robertson and Barbara Starr, my thanks to you both.
Now, a few ethical questions incite more passionate debate than this one. Is it ever morally right for someone to be executed? Those on the side
against capital punishment just received a significant boost from none other than the Pope, Pope Francis declared that the death penalty is never
admissible. Saying the Catholic Church will work towards its abolition around the world.
JONES: The announcement marks a huge shift in official Catholic teaching, but echoes a view Pope Francis has often shared. The move is also a
position that the Catholic Church directly against President Trump who has called the capital punishment to be used on drug dealers among other
Well, let's bring in Father Edward Beck, our religion commentator who joins us from LA. Father, wonderful to see you, as always. Given the Bible
teaches us "Thou shalt not kill," some will be surprised that this has been a Catholic teaching for a long time. Explain why now?
FATHER EDWARD BECK, RELIGION COMMENTATOR, CNN: Well, I think again, it's been an evolution of thought. John Paul II even in the catechism of 1992
said that the circumstances must be very rare and the crime very egregious and capital punishment was only possible if somebody was a threat to
And I think as the thought has evolved with current incarceration, there is no real threat that you cannot contain any longer and this Pope has always
maintained that no one is beyond the pale of forgiveness or redemption, so how can you put somebody to death who has the potential to change. By the
way, this Pope is also opposed to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole because he says that that is the same as a life sentence.
JONES: I want to bring up a map if we can just to show our viewers just how widespread capital punishment is across the globe. We're obviously
going to focus a lot more on the United States because that's where you are, Father, but you can see there on this map countries and territories
that still use the death penalty. Let's talk about the US though, Father. Twenty two percent of Americans identify as Catholics. In Pope Francis
making this announcement today, is he deliberately putting himself up against President Trump?
BECK: Well, certainly, he hasn't shied away from that before and as you mentioned, President Trump has said that for drug traffickers and others,
that the death penalty should definitely be a consideration. When this Pope spoke before Congress in 2015, he called then for the abolition of the
death penalty worldwide.
So as your map just showed, it's in 53 countries right now where it is permissible, 31 states in the United States still permit it, so last year,
about a thousand people worldwide were executed and this Pope is saying, not only in the United States but in those 53 countries. This is not the
intent of God. That God wants the dignity of the human person to be respected and that everybody has the hope for redemption.
And so, I think, yes, he is pitting himself once again, against President Trump, but not only that because this Pope has a global view.
JONES: What about how this is going to play out in policy then? I think as things stand right now, there's more than 2,700 people in the United
States who are currently on death row. I mean, if any of them are Catholic, would they have a right to appeal their sentencing to their state
BECK: Well, they all have the right to appeal. The interesting question is, what about the governors who are Catholic or the judges who are
Catholic? Are they going to recuse themselves? Are they going to say, well, because of my faith, I really can't participate in this? Or they
going to maintain separation of church and state and say, "Well, even though it's a personal belief of mine, similar to abortion, if it's the
law, then I have to allow it to continue." So really, politicians and judges are going to be up against it to say, "Do I stand with the Pope or
do I not?"
JONES: And just finally then, that means that there could be more appeals that are successful on religious grounds?
BECK: I think that is very true especially when you have a spokesperson like the Pope, this major world leader saying in no cases is it admissible.
It is against the dignity of the human person to execute anyone. You're going to be hard pressed to find people who say, "Well, that doesn't really
count in this circumstance." The Pope says, in any circumstance not admissible.
JONES: Father Edward Beck, always good to talk to you. Thank you.
BECK: Thank you.
JONES: Still to come tonight on the program, a show of force at the White House. US Intelligence Chiefs deliver new warnings about Russian
interference in both past and current elections. Full details ahead.
And controversy over drill music after a recent wave of violence in London. We're going to take a closer look.
[15:30:14] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back. Now, earlier on, we showed you part of today's White House briefing as it
turned heated over attacks on the media. But Russia's ongoing election interference was actually the main topic of that briefing.
Donald Trump's security team warned the threat is real saying Russia is trying to weaken and divide the United States ahead of the November midterm
Now, you may remember just yesterday, Mr. Trump called for an end to the probe into Russian interference. And while meeting with Vladimir Putin in
Helsinki recently, he appeared to take Russia's word that it hasn't meddle over the findings of U.S. intelligence agency or say it has. Reporters
asked about that today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The issue was discussed and in fact, President Putin said, I thought at the press conference, but
certainly in the expanded bilateral meeting, when the two leaders got together with their senior advisors, President Putin said the first issue
that President Trump raised was election meddling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the question is at the press conference, the president didn't highlight any of the malign activities that you have, that
any of the advisors have. And so should Americans believe that he is listening to your advice or that he is doing his own way when he's having
meetings like you did with the president.
BOLTON: I think the president has made it abundantly clear to everybody who has responsibility in this area that he cares deeply about it and that
he expects them to do their jobs to their fullest ability and that he supports them fully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Let's get more now from CNN's White House reporter Stephen Collinson standing by for us. Stephen, they really wheeled out the entire
national security team for this one. Who knew that the White House cared so much about Russian interference?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. That was certainly an imposing lineup. The top officials from the FBI, the national
security agency, homeland security, Dan Coats, the director of National Intelligence. And it was a very strong coordinated message they put out
that the administration is working hard to counter Russian election interference. But also that it's pervasive and it is ongoing as we get
closer and closer to the midterm elections in November.
What is ironic about all of this, of course, is that the president has reputedly undermined the idea that there was, as U.S. intelligence agency
say, attacks on the 2016 election. And as you mentioned in Helsinki with President Putin, he appeared to accept Russia's version of events over his
own intelligence agency. So it's a sign that often the president's own inclinations and statements actively undermining contradict the work that's
being done in his own administration.
[15:35:04] JONES: And one person who's going to want to know exactly what the president thinks about Russian interference is going to be the special
counsel, Robert Mueller. Lots of back and forth today as to whether the two will actually sit down for an interview. What's the latest?
COLLINSON: Right. So there have been negotiations basically going on for months between the president's legal team and Robert Mueller's
investigators. They want to ask the president questions about the issue of whether he obstructed justice, including the firing of former FBI director,
James Comey and whether there was any coordination between Trump and members of his campaign and the Russian interference effort. This is a
long back and forth that's been going on.
The president's team is trying to limit his exposure. Many of his lawyers, as who don't want him to sit down with Mueller, because they believe he is
basically walking into a perjury trap and we have documented evidence of many times a week really that the president doesn't tell the truth. And
that could get him into the legal jeopardy.
But Mueller wants to still get him on the record on all of this questions. So a lot of this is also about politics. The president's legal team is
worried that he could be force testify to Mueller in the run-ups, the midterms, bring this all out into the open again.
Many people actually don't believe, at the end of the day, the president will volunteer to talk to Mueller just because it's so dangerous, but is
publicly insisting that he wants to do so.
JONES: And finally, Stephen, on the foreign policy front, it seems that President Trump has picked up something of a pen pal from Korea. Tell us
more on that.
COLLINSON: Right. He got another letter from -- well, from Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea, following their summit in Singapore in June.
The White House isn't telling us what was in that letter, but they are telling us that the president has replied. This comes at a time when there
are a lot of reports in the U.S. media that the North Koreans have continued to push forward on their missile development, that they've made
very few steps towards the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, that the president says, he secured a commitment for in that summit.
And it also comes, of course, after the return to the U.S. of remains of U.S. soldiers killed during the Korean War, in the 1950s. The
administration is touting that as concrete proof, the president's efforts and dialogue with Kim Jong-un is working and it's the start of a process.
But so far, there's not a great deal of evidence to show that what the president said when he came back from the North Korea summit, that he had
eradicated the nuclear threat to the United States is actually being followed up on.
JONES: He says it's part of a process and he also says he's looking forward to meeting with Kim Jong-un again soon. Stephen, always good to
have you on the program. Thanks very much indeed.
Now, it is a scene becoming all too familiar in the British capital. Young black men stabbed death in the streets. The latest victim, a 23-year-old
Drill rapper known as Incognito, a member of the Moscow 17 group and prominent in the Drill music scene. A genre known for its hyper aggressive
lyrics and threatening music videos.
Well, the killing is raising questions about the role of Drill music in recent murders and real putting a time old debate about whether censorship
of certain art forms is ever justified.
Salma Abdelaziz has been following all of this for us. She joins me now from South London. More violence on the streets of the British capital
then, Salma. And the questions being, is this one form of music, Drill music, to blame for that?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hannah, just behind me here is where Incognito, that 23-year0old man was stabbed and killed last night. And
that's a question. It's not just a local murder. It has a much wider significance, as you said. Drill music is a form of rap but it's also
become a subculture here in London and it's very much centered around the gang.
Lyrics often boast of gang affiliation and of acts of violence against or ops or rival gang members and that's why it has authorities' concern. They
say it is fueling a gang war that has claimed so many lives in the city this year.
We spoke earlier to one family that say their son's murder was inspired by Drill music.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDELAZIZ: It's meant to intimidate. Rap about stabbing a rival gang member. This is Drill music, a London subculture that authority say fuels
A group you see here, CR0, proved the police's point. They sing about killings and actually did it.
[15:40:00] Last summer, wearing balaclavas and armed with knives and a machete, they chased down and stabbed 15-year-old Jermaine Goupall.
Stanley says his son was an innocent. Not a member of a gang.
STANLEY GOUPALL, FATHER OF JERMAINE GOUPALL: I've lost a child over somebody rising in lyrics and foreshadowing it.
ABDELAZIZ: Struggling to confront an epidemic of night crime and murders, homicides surged by 44 percent in just one year. U.K. authorities have
taken a controversial and drastic step. They've banned the music.
A London court ordered of this group 1011 stopped making Drill music.
GOUPALL: Emmanuelle was his middle name.
ABDELAZIZ: Anything is worth a try says Stanley. He blames Drill for inspiring the school boy's murder just two streets away from here, their
GOUPALL: I would like it to be a bit controlled by the lyrics of what comes out of these young people's mouth. And so I would love to see
(INAUDIBLE) what they actually do with Drill music is. Piecing one another. And there at each other and pointing frits on each other.
ABDELAZIZ: Videos by the convicted killer 00 and dozens of songs by other Drill artist were taken off YouTube. The request of the police.
In a basement studio in West London, Drill producer, Emil Proffit, tells us the genre doesn't create gang life, it simply reflects it.
EMIL PROFFIT, DRILL MUSIC PRODUCER: The issue is some of the people within the music. It's just an easy way (INAUDIBLE) and not spend any money.
ABDELAZIZ: But don't you think that it glamorizes violence and perpetuates violence?
PROFITT: If songs are proven, not just -- it's proven that that lyric is 100 percent for this person, he said who's going to do that and he did
that, obviously, that's a bad thing. Coming from where I come from, I tried to encourage them to do better and come out of that life and show
them like forget a retaliation like just try and leave it.
ABDELAZIZ: Stanley also hopes for resolution, not revenge.
GOUPALL: He was my darling, my young son.
ABDELAZIZ: And as this father griefs, the country struggles to contain a culture of gang violence before it claims more innocent lives.
GOUPALL: I feel the spirit in this room. I feel his spirit so much in this room. The name Jermaine Goupall is alive, the candles are like --
ABDELAZIZ: Now, you can hear, Hannah, that pain in that father's voice. Of course, and you can see and there's music videos, just the type of
menacing nature, I mean, the masks, the smoking of drugs. IN some videos, you can see the brandishing of knives, still these videos get tens of
thousands of views on YouTube. It's a very popular form of music.
Going back to that group Moscow 17, the group Incognito was a part of, he was actually the second member of that group to be killed this year. In
almost exactly the same place. But despite his affiliation, because of its popularity among youth, many say that cracking down on Drill music means
further marginalizing. There are groups that the community should be reaching out to, Hannah.
JONES: Salma, we appreciate your reporting on this. Salma Abdelaziz on the streets of South London there. Thank you.
Now, there is less than half an hour left in the trading day in the United States, but you could forgive employees at one company for packing up early
and reaching for the champagne. That brand is Apple, which today became the first U.S. company to break through the trillion dollar barrier.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Decades after its groundbreaking Macintosh commercial in 1984, Apple is smashing barriers again.
The company's 38-year-old journey from fledgling IPO to $1 trillion corporate colossus is the stuff of legend. And it never could have
happened without Steve Jobs, whose visions to Apple got it where it is today.
WALTER ISAACSON, PRESIDENT, ASPEN INSTITUTE: It takes Apple during the 10 years beginning in 2000. In this whole new direction, reinvent the music
industry, reinvents the telephone industry.
STEVE JOBS, CO-FOUNDER, APPLE: Every once in a while, a revolutionary product comes along, that changes everything.
ISAACSON: He discovers, now, we have to think different again. And he says, we're going to do devices. Devices that won't make your computers
sort of the hub of your digital lifestyle.
ASHER: Jobs has run a revolutionary devices again with the iPod in 2001.
JOBS: And we are calling it, iPhone.
ASHER: But it was the iPhone that really changed everything. Released in 2007, when Apple's market cap was just $100,000 billion. The IPad followed
three years later when the street valued Apple at around 300 billion.
[15:45:03] Apple's market cap has more than doubled under Tim Cook, CEO, since 2011.
Cook has launched only one major new hardware line, the Apple watch. But his commitment to strengthening the Apple ecosystem with services like
Apple Pay, cloud computing, and music streaming, guarantees a steady flow of revenue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: iPhone is the most loved phone in the world.
ASHER: Make no mistake, however, it is the iPhone that will be key to Apple's fortune well into the future.
KEVIN QUIGG, CHIEF STRATEGIST, EXPONENTIAL ETFS: Whether it'd be their venture and/or entertainment or some of the other thing they're doing,
obviously those are additive for their business. But the business is driven by the iPhone. You get people to pay $1,000 for something that fits
in your pocket is obsolete in a year and a half or two years. That's a remarkable business model.
ASHER: A business model that has been smashingly profitable for Apple investors.
Zain Asher, CNN Money, New York.
JONES: Historic moment then for Apple. And Zain will have plenty more on this story in "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" which is coming up at the top of the
hour. That's going to be around 15 minutes from now. So stay tuned away for that.
Meantime, still to come on this program tonight, the U.S. government could save millions by closing security checkpoints at airport. Is it worth it?
JONES: Welcome back. The U.S. Transportation Security Administration operates checkpoints at large and small airports across America. But that
could be about to change.
CNN has learned that the TSA is considering a plan to eliminate passenger screening at 150 small and medium size airports in order to save money.
Passengers would still be screened before getting on connecting flight at larger airports, but that hasn't stopped critics at the proposal from
calling this dangerous.
CNN aviation and government regulation correspondent, Rene Marsh broke this story. And I'd like to say Rene joins me now.
This is a significant shift in practice, right? Since 9/11, almost two decades then. So, why now?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Right. That is the main question that lawmakers and the public are asking now that
this has come to light. The reaction really have been swept lawmakers on Capitol Hill vowing to prevent this sort of thing from becoming a reality.
Even the industry including airports and the flight attendants are speaking out, calling this proposal a huge national security mistake.
So what we found in internal documents from TSA, they were all pretty recent, from June and July. They show, as you mentioned, TSA is
considering allowing thousands of passengers to board commercial planes at small and some medium size airports throughout the United States without
And one of the components in the proposal is about cost savings. The TSA estimate that the move would save about $115 million that that could
possibly help bolster security at larger airports.
[15:50:00] I will tell you that the proposal doesn't list exactly which airports will be impacted, but it does say more than 150. So for context,
TSA currently screens passengers at 440 airports.
So, how would this work? That's what everyone wants to know. The way it would work is that passengers and their luggage arriving from these smaller
airports would be screened when they arrived at the major airports. And why are they doing it this way? The theory is that they believe that
terrorists just aren't interested in targeting small aircraft. They want the big payoff like large commercial planes.
But we spoke with several national security experts who said, this is just a flawed reasoning. This is a flawed way to think. And that ISIS itself
has made it very clear attacking any way, even if it is a small attack.
JONES: This is obviously a cost cutting measures, you say, but it risks cutting safety to passengers and all of us who use these airports all the
time. Presumably they've assessed the risk and they say that it's all maintained around at the larger airports as well.
But as you say, as soon as there's an attack potentially on of the smaller airports, the TSA is going to be the one's getting in the neck.
MARSH: Right. I mean, also remember, two of the 9/11 attackers chose to depart from a small airport in Portland, Maine before they connected in
Boston, because they perceived the smaller airport to have less stringent securities. So that is just proof that terrorists are looking for ways
anyway to exploit any weakness that they can in the aviation system.
JONES: Rene, than you for your reporting on this. This exclusive reporting. We appreciate it and thanks for joining us live.
More to come on the program this evening including the summer heat in some places, it's a discomfort, in other places though, it is deadly. We'll
have the latest.
JONES: Where this hot weather is taking a toll across Asia and Europe, Wednesday was Seoul, South Korea's hottest day in 111 years. And South
Korean government is reporting up to 29 deaths from heat stroke.
In Japan, the heat is blamed for 119 deaths during July, three times the average.
Europe is also suffering through an extended heat wave. Forecasters warning about potentially record-breaking temperatures in Spain and
Portugal this week.
So just how hot is it? And how long will all of this continue? Let's bring in our meteorologist, Tom Sater. Tom, we're expecting record high
temperatures, I understand, in Europe tomorrow.
TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. This is worldwide. Hannah, when you think -- it's winter in the southern hemisphere. The coldest month of the
year for Sidney, Australia is July. They just had their hottest July on record with temperatures more like September for them.
Let's back up a little bit and then we'll go into what's been happening the last couple of weeks. 2017, it was the third warmest year. We're on paste
to be right here, three or four. So that means the four warmest years in recording history would be the last four years.
Over report put out just yesterday by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says at this. 2017, the hottest year, of course, ranks
third with nine El Nino year. That's a warming year, anyway. In fact, it was the opposite. It was a La Nina year, which means ocean cooling in
these areas of blue. First time that's ever cracked the top 10 of the hottest years. 28,000 global daily heat records have been broken so far
this year. Let's break it down.
[15:55:00] Japan, a week and a half ago. Tokyo, 41.1 degrees, all-time highest temperature in Japan. South Korea, two days ago, Seoul and
Pyongyang in North Korea, broke all-time high temperature records. Pakistan in the month of May has had dozens of fatalities.
You know about your dry spell and, of course, how long it's been hot their across the U.K. I mean, the driest first half of summer. Scandinavia, of
course, with the heat waves and the fires that had been burning there, Africa in July 5th, reaching 51.3 degrees, the most reliable record for the
And look at this one. Oman had the highest low temperature, it's like 109 degrees Fahrenheit, at about 41 degree Celsius. Just amazing for a night-
Canada has dozens of fatalities over 90 now and the fires are back up in Ontario burning again.
We have the fires in the Western U.S. All-time records, Seattle, Death Valley, Phoenix, Arizona, the list goes on and on.
And how dry in Europe? When you go back for June and July, you know the drought has bene going on when you only pick about 18 and half percent of
normal rainfall. Eleven and a half in Amsterdam. You can see the other numbers.
Farmers in Germany getting hit hard in the pocketbook with the drought there. And of course the livelihood for those farming families, where the
opposite down to the south. You're getting in southern area of France. They're above normal rainfall, 200 to 300 percent.
Cooler weather, making its way into the Northwest and parts of Scandinavia this weekend. Our computer models were hinting at the fact that maybe in
Portugal or Spain, we would hit 50 or 51. That would be an all-time European continental record. It doesn't look like that's going to happen.
We're backing off to about, what, 46? I mean, it's not going to be, but you can see, the intense heat.
And I'll give this to you too. Pyongyang, Seoul, you can see the records here. Just amazing. All-time record, as we said, of course in South
Korea. The heat goes on and on and on across China.
And I'll leave you with this. The global warming pattern. If you go back to 1900, you can just see it, Hannah, it goes up and up and up and up. And
it's in correlation with our CO2 output, which has been going up and up and up.
We'll get a break soon, come on December.
JONES: Climate change is real. Climate change is real, 46 degrees in Portugal, my goodness.
Tom, we appreciate it. Thanks very much.
JONES: And we leave you this hour with one English football club which is doing its bit to fight climate change. The Forest Green Rovers are living
up to their name becoming the world's first U.N. certified carbon mutual football club. Players and fans eat vegans. The council of the club cause
the environmental and animal welfare impacts of livestock farming. The club also uses solar power and recycled water. I wonder that fans do the same,
both on them.
Stay with us here on CNN. Zain Asher has "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," next hour.