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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Custody Horror, Dad Kills Daughter; Family Massacre, Boys Slaughter Family Of Five To Be Famous; A Hungry Little Boy Accidentally Ate Meth; The Search For Mollie Tibbetts; Jaws Movie Involved In Cold Case. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired August 09, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:05] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to "Crime and Justice." Tonight
a heartbreaking and to a bitter custody battle, this beautiful little girl, was she beaten to death by her own father? Bernice Man, had the
devastating detail on this. Bernice, what happened to this 7-year-old?
BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Well, it appears her father did kill her, and then he killed himself, but Ashleigh, this father has a
history of violence and he was awarded partial custody of her. Could her death have been avoided?
BANFIELD: Sounds like it could have. We are going to have serious questions on how the judge would hand a child like this over to her father
like that.
A family brutally killed their own teenage boy behind its stabbing the parents, even luring your little siblings out of hiding. Our Kyle Peltz is
on this story. Kyle, these details might be some of the most cruel ones we`ve ever encountered.
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: These details are chilling. And they may have been planning to kill ten times as many people, but wait
until you hear why they wanted their family dead.
BANFIELD: It`s just a remarkable story. Thank you for that.
Also, the Indiana dad who is now paying the price for his 8-year-old`s tragic death, his son overdosing on meth. Michael Christian is covering
this one. Michael, there are reports this little boy was hungry and may have actually thought daddy`s meth was actually cereal.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: That is what police think, Ashleigh. And you will not believe the amount of meth that was in this
poor little kid`s system. Help did not arrive, unfortunately, until it was too late. Why, because dad wouldn`t let anyone call 911. We`ll tell you
the story.
BANFIELD: It just keeps compounding and compounding. All right, Michael, thank you for that.
Later, a woman found in a lake where she went sailing with a special friend. That special friend and the boat have both turned up. She however
is dead. Big questions on that.
But first, I want to get you to the bone-chilling story that is coming to us out of Philadelphia where a father/daughter visit became their last,
ending in an apparent murder-suicide.
A 7-year-old Kayden said, she really didn`t want to see so much of dad. Described as an aggressive man with a history of violence, but for some
reason, a Pennsylvania Judge still gave Jeff Mancuso visitation rights. And when Jeff didn`t bring Kayden home on time, it was Kayden`s stepdad who
went looking for her, only to find her lifeless little body in daddy Jeff`s living room. Her family says that she had been beaten on the back of the
head with some kind of weight and that she was found with a bag over her head and a telephone cord around her neck. A bright and beautiful little
girl with her whole life ahead of her, who like many other 7-year-olds in America loved unicorns and mermaids and American girl dolls, not to mention
dancing for her family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my fight song.
HEATHER GIGLIO, KAYDEN`S AUNT: She is the kindest, sweetest, loudest little girl you`ll ever meet. She is the light in her family and now he
took that from us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Kayden`s family says they did everything they could to keep that father from seeing her and hurting her, because they feared that something
like this would happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIGLIO: He tried to kill all of us, but that wasn`t enough. Words weren`t enough. We had to wait for action. We had to wait for him to actually
kill her. For something to be heard. And now what? What can we do? We don`t get her back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: With me now, Solomon Jones, morning host for Praise 107.9 fm. Also Kayden`s aunt, Jennifer Sherlock is joining us from the bedroom of
that little girl, Kayden`s bedroom. And Defense attorney, Parag Shah is also with us. Thank you to all.
Solomon, I want to begin with you, if I can, just to get to the actual fact pattern of this extraordinarily difficult story. Just how violent had
Jeffrey Mancuso been before a Judge actually granted him these visitation rights with this little child?
SOLOMON JONES, MORNING HOST, PRAISE 107.9 FM: Well, he had been extremely violent. He had admitted to biting off someone`s ear in a fight. He had
punched his dog, punched himself. Punched the child`s grandmother. He had a pattern of violence that had been well-established by the testimony of
the family and had been well-established also by specialists from the court that had looked at his behavior and had diagnosed him with some kind of
depressive disorder. And so everybody involved knew that he had this history of violence and still the judge decided to allow unsupervised
visitation with this child.
BANFIELD: From what I understand, he had every other weekend with visitation with little Kayden. And I just want to show our audience, it
doesn`t even take a court specialist in order to see what this man was like. I`m just going to roll you his interactions with the law. And as I
show you this, it`s a very long list, let me just be frank, it`s extremely long. It doesn`t even include everything. A lot of it is not adjudicated.
I think one of them, in particular a dui from last October, he was probably dead already and couldn`t even get to court to deal with it.
A lot of them are also not processed, because it`s possible that they were actually part of plea deals. But let me just give you the lowlights of
this scrolling list. In 2012, aggravated assault, guilty. 2012, simple assault, guilty. 2012, recklessly endangering another person, guilty.
2009, simple assault, guilty. Back when he was 22, conspiracy to sell ecstasy. Rather that was a DUI actually. At 22 it was a DUI. At 23 it
was conspiracy to sell ecstasy. And that doesn`t even make this list. Solomon, something else doesn`t make this list is what he did to the little
school where Kayden attended, the kind of behavior he exhibited towards school officials. Tell me about what happened at school and what it
resulted in.
JONES: So he had been threatening to both the teacher and the principal at the school where Kayden attended and as a result of it had been banned from
the school. The school didn`t even want him there, because of his threatening behavior, because of the things that he said he was going to do
at that school. So this guy was somebody who could not even interact with this child`s teachers. And yet he had this unsupervised visitation with
the child.
BANFIELD: It`s hard to believe that a school would ban him from its property, but a judge would send her to his property regularly. And let me
just read for you what some of the court orders actually list. And these aren`t allegations. These are orders from the court. This is what it
states about Jeffrey Mancuso`s mental state. Major depressive disorder. Moderate with anxious disorder. And identified narcissistic and antisocial
personality traits. Also suicidal ideation. And that is exactly what played out after he bludgeoned that little girl to death, put the bag
around her head, tied the telephone cord around it and then decided to kill himself.
So the court seemed to know he had these tendencies and yet the court, the judge, decided to allow him regular visitation despite the better judgment
of the people who know him, the family members, and the woman who had to cope with him, the mother of this child. And that is not even to say how
the rest of the family is dealing with it. Have a listen to how little Kayden`s aunt described this whole situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRIN PAUL, KAYDEN`S AUNT: As far as red flags go, you would not find a guy with more red flags.
GIGLIO: The therapist suggested that he need to seek help and the Judge still let him go with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Solomon Jones, the judge in this case is Jeffrey G. Trauger, he is the Bucks County Common Pleas Court Judge in this case. This is your
bailiwick, this is your wheelhouse. What are the people of this community saying about this judge at this time?
JONES: Well, people are shocked, but --
BANFIELD: I think I might have just lost Solomon. Are you coming back? Solomon, can you hear me now?
JONES: I can, yes.
BANFIELD: I`m sorry, I just asked you the question, but I really didn`t hear much so start over, if you would, please. How are people reacting to
this?
JONES: Sure. Well, people are shocked. The people think that the judge should have known better, should have really looked at this guy`s record,
he should have looked at what was being said by the specialists in the court and really should have done something different. Now, certainly this
is --
BANFIELD: We are kind a losing you again, Solomon, unfortunately. You know, let`s reestablish our line with Solomon. In the meantime I want to
play something from Tuesday night at Kayden`s elementary school. It`s just testament to how many people loved this child. About 200 people showed up
on Tuesday to pay tribute to this little girl in a vigil. I`m going to play you a few of the comments that were made from her family members at
this vigil. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:10:10] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Brian. I`m Kayden`s dad. I may not have been her biological father, but I was her dad. She was my little
girl. Heaven has a beautiful little girl right now and an amazing athlete.
GILIO: Anyone who knew her, who knew our family, we were one. And now we`re broken in pieces. I hope that we can find some kind of justice for
her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of people out here tonight who are sad for Kayden, but we also need to be happy that she was a little girl who was
so happy in this world and got in touch with so many lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Jennifer Sherlock, as Kayden`s aunt, I cannot imagine what you and your family are going through and my heart goes out to you. I thank
you for speaking with us today. This is a community issue as well as a tragic family issue. This judge gave custody to this extraordinarily
violent man. Do you have any recourse?
JENNIFER SHERLOCK, KAYDEN`S AUNT: (Inaudible). Now she is gone.
BANFIELD: Jennifer, we`re having so many technical issues, I apologize profusely. I am so, so sorry. We are going to reestablish your skype
line, our viewers just cannot hear you, we can see you, but we can`t hear you. And in the meantime I think we may have Solomon back. Solomon, can
you hear me?
JONES: Yes, I can hear you Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: I can hear you again. My apologies as well to you. Can you help me to understand a little bit about the process right now and whether
this family has recourse? I get it, judges have prosecutorial immunity. For the most part it is extraordinarily difficult to go after the
government. In their cases, is there any kind of justice for this family?
JONES: Well, I think, you know the family is trying to get the judge to resign, they`re putting public pressure on him. But, you know, I mean,
ultimately no, Judges are elected here in Pennsylvania. They can certainly push for him to -- for people to vote him out of office. They can
certainly do that, but beyond that, there`s really nothing that they can do, because he had to go on what the established evidence was. And there
had been no abuse of the daughter up to that point. And so he went with, he says, what he had to go on at that time.
BANFIELD: I`m having trouble with that, you know why, Solomon, I`m having trouble with it, because abuse comes in many forms. And if he hadn`t
struck the child before, that is not the only kind of abuse this little girl suffered. She witnessed him fighting with her grandmother. She
witnessed him punching the family dog, screaming at little Kayden. She also witnessed him punching himself in the face. So this little girl had
been aware of some of the tendencies of this father. She had articulated to the court that she didn`t want to spend much time with him. So, I`m
still having a tough time understanding how that didn`t have an extraordinary effect. You know on this, -- let me bring in Parag Shah on
this. Parag, I don`t know if this is happening in any of your cases. If you`ve had a case where you`ve actually seen this go so completely
sideways.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Ashleigh, as you know, I`m also a judge here in Atlanta as well. And we have to make tough decisions and
weigh all the interests involved. In a case like this, it is looking at the best interests of the child. And the question he is asking himself is,
should a daughter have some relationship with her father.
And he answered that question yes, based on what the custody evaluator said and what the psychologists had said, and said even though this guy has
behavioral issues, violent, it`s always to other people, it has nothing to do with the daughter. Yes, he needs counseling, yes he needs that, but he
has never been physically abusive or done anything to the daughter. And the custody evaluator said that the daughter didn`t fear him.
And so he said, she should have some relationship. Now, I agree that he should impose conditions. Family Judges have a wide latitude. They can
control the environment. They can say, you`re going to meet, do visitation at this location, it`s going to be supervised. You can even pat the person
down.
BANFIELD: Yes, thank you, that is all I`m asking for in this case, is how was it not at least supervised, because I`ve got to be honest, Parag, there
is an incident on a thanksgiving, and I don`t know how recent this thanksgiving was, where Jeffrey Mancuso threatened to kill Kayden`s mother
and when the police were called, the police came and recommended that the child not be left alone with the father. I get it, police don`t establish
custodial, you know, issues, but this just seems astounding. I think we may have Jennifer Sherlock back, Jennifer, can you hear me?
SHERLOCK: Yes, I can hear you.
BANFIELD: I know I have you on the phone and I am so sorry that we weren`t able to get your skype line to work. But I want to just get a fact
straight, because I`m not 100 percent sure how this played out. And I think you of all people being, you know, one step from this child, there is
some reporting that there was a note left on little Kayden`s body by Jeffrey. Do you know what the note said?
SHERLOCK: Yes. It was about a page and a half long and it was mostly about getting revenge and it ended with saying, you deserved this. And he
got the final say.
BANFIELD: He is saying you deserve this, meaning that the family or the mother? Who was he referring to when he said "you"? Don`t tell me he said
that the child deserved this.
SHERLOCK: No, he was talking to Kayden`s mother and basically her side of the family. And he stole our joy and stole her joy, and that is what he
wanted. He was a sick man, mental health issues, didn`t get any help. And I mean, who can do that to their daughter that is their own blood and
flesh, and yet -- kill them and afterwards leave a note showing no remorse and basically saying, ha-ha. You know, he was trying to ruin everyone`s
lives. And she brought joy to many people`s lives. And, I mean it takes a really sick monster to do that to their own child.
BANFIELD: Jennifer, can I ask you if this judge has reached out to your family in any way about this?
SHERLOCK: No. We`re completely outraged. I mean, we`re waiting for an answers. He had seen enough evidence. He had seen that Jeff bit someone`s
ear off. The school district banned him from their property. And yet Cathy, the mother, didn`t even know, because the school board and the
school district decided to silence it, because they were scared of Jeff. And we are completely so upset and if we have known or she had known about
the school district`s banning him, Jeffrey Trauger could have seen that evidence, but at the end of the day, he saw the past violent history. He
saw what the court psychologist said and the court psychologist recommended a supervised visit and he didn`t listen.
BANFIELD: I am so -- I share your outrage, I`m in disbelief. Looking at the pictures of Kayden, and she is beautiful. And I can imagine she was
the joy and the light of your lives and I am so sorry for your lost.
SHERLOCK: She was just one of a kind. And an angel to all of us. And it`s really surreal for us. And we appreciate the support the community --
and you have been unbelievable. And we hope to starts Kayden wall and build awareness for mental illness in changing the world.
BANFIELD: Thank you so much for saying that and thank you for being on the program at this extraordinarily difficult time in your lives. Solomon
Jones, also, thank you for your reporting tonight. We appreciate that. Just an unbearable story. Little Kayden Mancuso, 7 years old.
Two brothers go on a late night massacre at their very own home. Five people are dead. And they planned to kill ten times that many. Tonight,
one of those teens has just learned where he is going to spend the rest of his life.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: It`s an old expression, being stabbed in the back. It means when someone betrays you and it`s totally survivable, except for the
emotional scars. But the Bever family in Oklahoma brings that expression to an entirely different level. Because for them being stabbed in the back
was not survivable at all. Their teenaged sons tried to massacre the whole family and many of the stab wounds were indeed to their backs. Out of nine
family members, five of them were murdered. Just two girls survived while their parents and three of their siblings were butchered by their older
brothers. And now both of those boys are behind bars for life. Don`t ask why he is smiling in that mug shot. Who knows how much they`re going to
think of their little brother Daniel, that little 12-year-old who managed to hide in dad`s office and call 911 before both Robert and Michael got to
him?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Broken arrow 911. Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, where are you at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Broken arrow, Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you the only one there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother is attacking my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your dad is attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. My brother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Who is attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is it? Do they have --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That little boy was stabbed nine times in the back after he reportedly opened the door for his big brother Michael. Michael who had
stepped aside and told his other brother and fellow killer Robert, he is all yours. And Michael is the one who was sentenced today to five life
sentences, back to back, better known as consecutive, one for each of the family members that he helped his brother to slaughter. But not until
after he told the police why he and his brother Robert wanted to kill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you guys talk about being on the news and getting to see each other on TV and stuff?
MICHAEL BEVER, KILLER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of things did you say and talk about?
M. BEVER: Mostly about how we were planning on killing both people and would become famous and we would get on a Wikipedia list.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you think they might make even a movie or something or TV show? Did you guys talk about that?
M.BEVER: I don`t know about a good TV show, but --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you guys talked about that?
M. BEVER: Yes, definitely talked about that (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Samantha Vicent, she a staff writer for the "Tulsa World," also Steve Kunzweiler, he is the Tulsa County District
Attorney, who prosecuted Michael Bever and defense attorney Parag Shah, is with us as well, himself a judge, he mentioned in the Atlanta area. Thank
you to all three of you.
Samantha, if I can begin with you, you know, I think most people can`t believe that this story is actually true, that two teenage brothers would
look to massacre their own family, but for the fact that the facts keep getting worse and worse and worse as they actually wanted to go on a
countrywide killing spree and kill dozens and dozens of people. How did these two kids become so sick? Do we know what led them to do this?
SAMANTHA VICENT, STAFF WRITER, TULSA WORLD: Not exactly. We have seen some evidence presented in the trial about some materials, like a journal
that the siblings had kept that detailed some of their intentions, namely like you mentioned, after the family was supposed to have been killed, they
wanted to go to different places around the country such as like gas stations and restaurants and kill a certain amount of people at a time, but
because they were caught before that, they never got to that point.
However, Robert Bever, the older brother, had a shipment of ammunition sent to the house that was scheduled to arrive July 23rd, 2015, which was after
the homicides had taken place.
BANFIELD: The way this crime unfolded was just -- it was chilling, without question, chilling. And that question that the interrogator asked, do you
think a book or a movie might have come of this, is that what you were thinking, I can`t imagine it wouldn`t, because this would be a
quintessential horror movie. I want to play for you the interrogation of Michael, especially when the police officer who is asking him questions
asks about tricking his little brother, because those little brothers, two of them were locked away, one in a bathroom and one in the office. They
were adjacent to each other, two doors, right beside each other, two little brothers terrified about what was going on. And the way they got them to
open the door was tricking them by saying we`re victims too, the brother`s coming after me. Have a listen to how he actually tells the cop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You pleaded with -- I guess when you were locked in the bathroom. What room where they locked in?
M. BEVER: The bathroom, and they were -- right next to it is dad`s office. Daniel locked himself in the office. And then I was like, I said, help,
Robert`s after me, and they both opened up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And which room did you go into?
M. BEVER: I went into the bathroom and I stabbed Christopher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Steve Kunzweiler, wow, I can`t even imagine prosecuting this case. I can`t imagine living with this case on your desk let alone having
to face these children. They were kids themselves, teenagers. Did you see the younger one, Michael, as the mastermind, as the brains behind this, and
the older one as the gronk who carried out the harder work of getting the product to make this happen?
STEVE KUNZWEILER, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, TULSA COUNTY: Well, certainly from my perspective they`re equally responsible for the deaths of their family
members, but Michael, while he was younger, certainly had the -- in my opinion a lot of where-what to all of these as far as the execution of
their plan.
[18:30:08] We know that during the course of the murders, after they had slit their sister`s throat, Michael is the one that ran to the house alarm
and disabled it to keep the neighbors from hearing what was going on inside the house.
It was Michael who took the phone from his brother, who is making that 911 phone call, and destroying that phone to intercept that call. It was
Michael who was encouraging his brother when his brother was attacking their father. It was Michael who was encouraging his brother after they
were concerned about law enforcement being there, to run out the back and get out the back and persist and their plan. Michael is no innocent
character in this horrific murder.
BANFIELD: The jailhouse storybook that was released is pretty telling, cartoon-like drawings with crayons from these kids. And I just want to
read one of them and show our audience what was found. Once upon a time, there were brothers named Michael and Robert. They hated their family so
they killed them, the end.
And you probably noticed there were five dead bodies and two gunmen. It looks as though these are the etchings of a three-year-old. Mr.
Kunzweller, it doesn`t look like these are the etchings of an 18-year-old. I think at the time of the crime, a 16 and an 18-year-old. I guess that
leads to my next question. What, in your estimation, caused these boys to act this way, or is this the old estimation that some people are just born
bad?
KUNZWELLER: Well, your second thesis is the same as my opinion on this case. I mean this family was home schooling their children. But from all
signs that we had, nothing was untoward. When the 13-year-old, the surviving 13-year-old testified and was asked about physical or sexual
abuse taking place in the home, you know, what might explain these behaviors. She described that she didn`t see anything that she would
characterize as abuse.
Maybe the dad was a little harder on the boys. But don`t be mistaken. When you`re looking at that book, you know, he`s in jail because. He`s in
jail because he`s killed five people. And they`re not going to give him some object that might be sharp, maybe can be used as a weapon. They gave
him crayons to write in a book.
So don`t be mistaken that that somehow is a childish rendition of his version of the facts. What`s clear throughout this case, I mean there`s
nothing in that book that says I am sorry I killed my family. I am sorry I did this. Even at the sentencing hearing, it was all about Michael. There
was never one time where he uttered that, you know, I really regret what I did and I am sorry for what I did to my family. I never heard those words
out of his mouth.
BANFIELD: And there`s still the surviving 13-year-old, the 2-year-old, both of them as we understand have been adopted by another family, non-
family members and that they are doing well. I thank you for your service to the community, Mr. Kunzweller. I am sorry that you had to live through
that nightmare even from the perspective of it being your job.
I am just sorry that you had to see this in your community and this poor family had to suffer this horrifying evil. Thank you for your time.
KUNZWELLER: Thank you for covering the story.
BANFIELD: And thank you also to Samantha Vicente for reporting (Inaudible) ask you to stick around. There`s real outrage tonight after a very hungry
little boy, and who wouldn`t be after waking up in the morning, went searching for food in his home, but then accidentally ate a dish of meth,
possibly thinking it was cereal. So what do you think is going to happen to the dad?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00] BANFIELD: You cannot always keep track of what your child is eating. They will plow through junk if you`re not watching closely. But
if you`re in a house with no food and a starving child, you`d better be prepared that something is going to go wrong. And unfortunately, Curtis
Coleman was not prepared after his eight-year-old son died when cops say he ate his father`s meth.
And not because he was curious and accidentally overdosed, because he was hungry, and because the meth had been sitting out on a table on a glass
plate, which Curtis Junior might just have mistaken for cereal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An eight-year-old child more than likely suffered for many hours. It upsets you. Anybody that is a parent, you know, would be
emotionally upset, it kind of hits home if you have kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:39:52] BANFIELD: Even more heartbreaking is that Curtis Senior decided not to call 911, not even when his little boy started twitching and
scratching and hitting his face on the floor, burning up. And police say he actually tried to keep others from calling 911 as well. Someone
eventually did and the police came. But Curtis Junior was soon pronounced dead.
And yes, of a meth overdose, 180 times the lethal amount. Even though his dad told police Curtis probably had just gotten into some of those cleaning
supplies. You know the ones that we all keep in the house, like Pine-Sol and bleach. I want to bring in my panel, Crime and Justice Producer
Michael Christian, also retired detective and forensics specialist Karen Smith, and defense attorney and judge Parag Shah is with me as well.
Michael, 180 times the fatal amount. But in nanograms, I can`t even believe there are this many nanograms in one plateful of meth.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, PRODUCER, CRIME AND JUSTICE: Eighteen thousand is what was in this child`s system, eighteen thousand. And as you say, that`s 180
times the lethal dose.
BANFIELD: So the circumstances where the child woke up and tried to wake dad up. Dad said go back to bed. We`ve got nothing to eat. The child
went down to the kitchen area and began to find something to eat, and then what?
CHRISTIAN: Yeah. From these brownish/reddish crystals on this plate, he thought, according to police, he thought they were cereal. He then woke up
the dad a little while later and he was convulsing. He was banging his head, as you said. He was having all these reactions. His father tried to
pour cold water on him to cool him down but did not call for help.
The father did eventually call a female friend who came over and said you`ve got to call 911. You`ve got a problem here. She says that at that
point the father ripped the phone out of her hand, pointed a handgun at her, and said that if she called 911, he would kill all three of them.
BANFIELD: And she left.
CHRISTIAN: She left in fear for her life.
BANFIELD: I suppose understand (Inaudible) although why she didn`t go to the police. I haven`t heard about that part of the investigation. Let`s
go back to Curtis Coleman who is now facing, let`s see, failure to register as a sex offender as part of another case in his history, neglect of a
dependent. Pointing a firearm, as you`ve mentioned and possession of meth plus intimidation, eventually Curtis went to his mommy`s house, and that`s
-- the dead child`s grandmother.
CHRISTIAN: That`s correct. And she said you`ve got to call 911. She said now her son was hysterical. He was crying. He said no. It`s interesting
because he had told the female friend who had come over originally. I am not going back to prison and that`s why she couldn`t call 911.
BANFIELD: Let me bring Karen Smith in. Karen, you`ve just heard Michael Christian report that astounding number, 18,000 nanograms of meth. Had
this child gotten some kind of medical attention earlier, is that survivable?
KAREN SMITH, FORENSICS SPECIALIST: It`s hard to say. At this point, we`re talking such a mass quantity of methamphetamine. I mean we`re talking .5
micrograms per liter in blood concentrations is enough to kill an adult. We`re talking 180 times that, 90 micrograms per liter. I really don`t know
if this is survivable.
The child was exhibiting every single classic symptom of methamphetamine overdose, the hypothermia, the hot body, arrhythmias, psychosis,
hallucinations, and violent behavior. You know maybe in the beginning moments, he may have been able to get some help. But because the father
decided to wait and wait and wait and not get help and threaten anybody else who wanted to, the child didn`t have a chance at this point.
BANFIELD: So Parag Shah, apparently one of the things that this man, Curtis Coleman III, was overheard saying is I am not going back to prison,
which stands to reason he was arrested because he failed to register as a sex offender for an incident with a minor quite some time ago. But does
that play into the prosecution against him, that he let this child die because he didn`t want to go back to jail had they seen that he had meth?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah because I think the defense would be, look, I was also high on meth. I wasn`t in my right state of mind. I
panicked. But statements like that show that you were aware of the situation and you basically were selfish. You were thinking about yourself
as opposed to your son, and that`s bad. And so the whole game here is for the defense is mitigating his sentence to try to get him, you know, as less
time as possible, but another child that shouldn`t have been with their father.
BANFIELD: Yeah. I sense that mitigating is going to be a real uphill battle on this one. Michael Christian, thank you, Parag, and Karen, if
you`ll stay on, I have a few more questions for you as well. Tonight, there is new information coming out about Mollie Tibbetts from a man who
says he saw her out jogging the night before she disappeared. You`re going to hear his account next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00] BANFIELD: For the past 22 days, investigators have flooded the zone in their desperate search for Mollie Tibbetts, the 20-year-old
University of Iowa student who disappeared 3 weeks ago after going on an evening run in Brooklyn, Iowa. It`s a town of just 1,500 people. And
tonight, we`re hearing from one of those people who say he believes that he saw Mollie the night that she vanished as she went out for that jog.
[18:50:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) down the street, up the hill, and you know, just nothing of it until I heard somebody was missing. It
really hit me. And it`s like I haven`t seen that runner since then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That was Devin Riley, who also says that Mollie had her hair up in a ponytail and was wearing an arm band for her cell phone or some kind
of music device. He told Good Morning America that he went to the police who followed up with a visit to his home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were really polite. And didn`t assume I don`t think and just watching out less than 10, 15 minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Also tonight, we are hearing Mollie for the first time in her own words from 2016 talking about her faith and the power of prayer and how
it gave her strength to rise up to a personal challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So they came for a conference cross-country, and I just remember waking up and being so nervous because I hadn`t run for over
a week. So I -- for the first time in my life, I prayed, but I have never gotten down on my knees and I asked god to give me the strength to make it
through it, to tell me what to do.
So I ended up getting my best time of the season so far. And in that moment, I knew it was god`s way of showing me. The power of prayer was
really something (Inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: All right, I want to bring in Karen Smith and Parag Shah, who are still with me now. Karen, just quickly, the notion that Kevin or Devin
Riley may have seen Mollie the night she disappeared and actually attested to that arm band with the music device, we`ve all wondered if she had that
phone with her or a Fitbit with her that might have actually put information into the cloud. That`s got to be really critical information
for investigators.
SMITH: Absolutely. All of this is critical information, and here`s why. Not only the arm band with the cell phone and the Fitbit that would have
been around her wrist likely. You now have a narrowed timeline for law enforcement. That`s why it`s so critical for these witnesses to come
forward. He talked about 9:00 p.m., the last I heard, it was around 10:00 p.m. So not only does law enforcement have a more narrowed timeline, they
also have a direction that if it was Mollie that she was traveling up the road and he said up the hill.
So it may give them some new areas to search, some new leads to follow, and yes, some new critical information off of that cell phone if indeed it was
her jogging.
BANFIELD: So Parag Shah, real quickly, the family has said that police told them that she may have actually returned home after that jog and been
on her laptop doing homework. There`s also this new reporting that there was no sign of a struggle. This comes from her boyfriend`s brother, Blake
Jack. There was no sign of struggle in the place where she was staying. Does that confound things or does that help?
SHAH: Well, in my mind, it kind of helps because it narrows the search down to looking to people that may know her and using her laptop to try to
make those connections, seeing that there was no struggle or something like that. So, you know who knows. Hopefully investigators can get some
answers.
BANFIELD: Well, 800-452-1111. Again, 800-452-1111, if anybody out there knows anything. Again, that town is small, 1500 people, so all eyes on the
national media can only help in the search for Mollie Tibbetts. Karen and Parag, I am going to ask you to stick around if you would please. There is
this story that has sort of fascinated us all.
The movie Jaws, could it hold some clues to an ice cold case? What do you think? She was a woman in a movie, in that movie, an extra, but she was
only in it for that flash on the left. But could she be the long lost murder victim on the right, the murder victim known as the lady in the
dunes that you`ve never been able to identify. That`s one more thing, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:55:00] BANFIELD: I`ve got one more thing for you tonight. And it is a question. Could there be a link between the blockbuster movie, Jaws and
a 1974 cold case? Stephen King`s son, Joe Hill, has floated a theory that an extra seen for an instant in the movie could in fact be the so-called
lady in the dunes.
I want to show you a picture of the extra. Here she is. She has a blue bandana in her hair, and she`s also wearing jeans. And this is a composite
of the lady in the dunes who we`ve never identified. Jaws was shot on Martha`s Vineyard over the summer in 1974, and the unidentified remains of
this so-called lady in the dunes were found that July.
Police also found a blue bandana near her and a pair of blue jeans. NBC reports folded, folded under her. So what could you think about this?
Could it be the same person? And if so, any idea who she may be because they don`t keep the extra records the same way today as they did back then.
Meaning they just don`t have them from back then. Such a fascinating mystery.
Next hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sailing off with a special friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have been dating for a period of time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the adventure on the water turned deadly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This could be a tor risk trap, accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hours later, he is rescued. Days later, she is found dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or it could be a real crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So was it a tragic accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Checking cell phone records, activity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or was there foul play out on that lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are treating is as a homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cut her throat herself and he watched her bleed all over the place and scream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two teen brothers jailed after slaughtering their family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother is attacking my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even luring little siblings to their death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like, I said, help Robert`s after me and they both opened up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they wanted to keep on killing, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would become famous. We would get on Wikipedia lists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, one of those brothers has just learned his fate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the punishment fit the crime?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An 8-year-old boy gobbling up meth because apparently, there was nothing else to eat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And extreme level of meth inside in the child`s system.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did that child think his dads drugs were cereal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You decided your life was more important.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why didn`t gad dad call 911?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did try to prevent people from calling 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before it was way too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dropped him off at the ER. Just drop him off and leave.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.
And welcome to CRIME AND JUSTICE. Our second hour.
In the midst of this scorching summer, an invitation to go sailing in the wind and waves of Lake Pontchartrain, well, that`s a God sent, but
(INAUDIBLE) should have said no. Even though the Louisiana temperatures were soaring into the upper 80s last Sunday because as inviting as the cool
waves of the lake would be, they might have been the last thing she would ever see. But investigators still don`t know how she died and whether the
special friend who took her sailing had an accident or if something far more ominous took place on the boat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMANDER JEFF WALLS, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: What we are doing is we are treating it as a homicide investigation as well. So you will see us
doing things that normally would do in any kind of homicide case. That`s not to say this is something that`s involving foul play. But we are
investigating it as such. What we do is we let the evidence guide us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The coast guard found Michael Farley in the water the morning after they found this. That boat. And while we don`t know where they
found him, we know where they found the boat. It was floating out in the open, but there was no mast and that`s strange for a sailboat. Something
else that was strange, a dog was on board. And two cell phones were on board.
But it would be a whole other day before they would find Sadie. And Sadie was dead. We don`t know yet how she died or how both of them ended up
overboard. But investigators are talking to Michael to figure out whether this was foul play or just something very, very unfortunate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLS: At the end of the day, this could be a horrific accident or it could be you know, a real crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now, Laura McKnight is the breaking news reporter for nola.com and Times-Picayune. Also boating expert and Harry Munns is
joining us. And Kerald Smith, Sadie`s ex-husband and still very close friend. Lizzie Scott is also with me. She is Sadie`s best friend.
Retired detective and forensic specialist Karen Smith is here and also defense attorney and judge, raj Shah, join me as well.
And thank you to all of you for being on.
If I could start with you, Laura. Why are police being so tight lipped about the details?
LAURA MCKNIGHT, REPORTER, NOLA.COM/THE TIMES-PICAYUNE (on the phone): I don`t know. I mean, we like you said, we don`t know much about what
happened. And we don`t know you know, much details from the authorities about what they found out and what you know, what they have pieced together
as far as what happened on the lake. It`s still pretty mysterious. We mentioned that a few times in our story, you know, what happened out there.
BANFIELD: What happened out there? And when they found Michael, are the authorities even telling us what condition he was in when they picked him
up in the water?
[19:05:04] MCKNIGHT: They did say he looked --his condition was good, but it was consistent with somebody who has been out in the water for hours.
That`s all we know.
BANFIELD: And we do know as far as timing that they went out sometime on Sunday. And that Michael was found floating some time Monday. And that
Sadie`s body was discovered floating Tuesday. Is that correct?
MCKNIGHT: That`s correct. Yes. That is the timeline.
BANFIELD: OK. Well, this is what the commanders Walls had to say with regards to Michael`s injuries. Because obviously, one of the big questions
was what I asked. How was he when you found him floating? And this is what commander Jeff Walls had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have any physical injuries being in water that long? That`s a long time.
WALLS: Well, I don`t want to go into too much of that. Because it may play up later, but he did have, he did have signs that he had been in the
water for an extended amount of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Interesting. Not a lot of details about Michael`s condition. I get it. But what about the boat? That`s a huge piece of evidence in this
case. And here is how the good commander answered questions about the boat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLS: I don`t want to go into details of what was on the vessel itself or any of those questions about the, whether the, whether it was sail or it
wasn`t. Different things like that. I don`t want to go into that because at this point of the investigation, I don`t want to come up with something
else we need to question, go back and question people about or witnesses about and we need that information. So I don`t want to speculate or put
anything else on the boat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I also respect investigators who stay tight lipped about things because they have a very important job to do. Not only to solve a crime,
but also then there`s the prosecution that might follow and that could be the case here, but there were a couple of things that if you know anything
about boating or sailing, there were some things that stood out.
I want to show you a couple of pictures of that sailboat. But then I want to really zoom in on some of the details that might be interesting.
And Harry Munns, I want you to sort of play along with me here. A few things stood out to me. There`s the boat in the distance, but if you go up
close, there is a couple of things you can really see. For instance, it looks to me as though the anchor line is down. And it looks to me as
though the boat is actually anchored. Not adrift. I`m not sure if you are seeing that on a screen in front of you. Can you see what I`m seeing?
HARRY MUNNS, BOATING EXPERT (on the phone): Yes, I`m looking at the same photo. There is a line that is extending from the bough of the boat into
the water as an anchor line would. But it`s impossible from this photo to really determine whether or not an anchor line or a dock line. An anchor
line, if there were any, the boat was being pushed away by the wind from an anchor, it would extend further out at an angle. That`s a wider angle from
the bough of the boat. So this could just be a line that used to attach the boat to a dock that is just kind of sitting down in the water.
BANFIELD: That`s not the same thing, Harry. I thought the same thing except for the dock lines are usually a little bit further back. You can
see a cleat about I don`t know, ten feet or so back. Maybe eight feet or so back from there. So let me move on to another issue and it is at the
very back of the boat. And if we zoom in on the back of the boat, I don`t know if you can squint and see there, but the swim ladder is down. Any
boat, that is cruising and this would be motoring because there is no sail. Would not necessarily have the swim ladder down. Does this give you a clue
they may have been swimming and something went wrong?
MUNNS: I would say yes. That would be definitely something you do in preparation for swimming. There are lots of stories out there about people
unable to re-board a boat because they failed to put the swim ladder down before they went in the water, but that would not be the case here.
BANFIELD: Yes. Do you know anything about Lake Pontchartrain and any of the currents? Because, you know, I have been out swimming before when I
realized I had no idea how far I was from the boat and sometimes, it can be very hard to swim against a current to get back to the boat. Do you know
about Lake Pontchartrain though?
MUNNS: Yes, I have been on Lake Pontchartrain. And you wouldn`t expect there to be in the middle of the lake, and I assume this is somewhere quite
a distance from shore. You would expect there to see a lot of current. Although the wind could definitely blow people in the water further away
from the boat than they might want to be. So it wouldn`t be necessarily current, but it would definitely be possible to get separated from the boat
due to wind.
BANFIELD: OK. Then the other clue up there on the top of the sailboat up on deck above the cabin. That`s what you are seeing right there is the
fender. I`ll get to that in a minute. Let`s do that up to the top of the boat where it looks to me, Harry, like on the top of the boat, no, those
the hatches. Sorry, we haven`t got these all in order. But there are towels which appear to be on the top of the boat. Again which says to me
they were mid-activity. Maybe mid-swimming.
[19:10:21] MUNNS: Yes. I would say that`s true. And the other thing I think is telling about this photo is that that boat, I would say with a
high degree of certainty, did not leave the marina with a mast that day. So they weren`t sailing. It wasn`t equipped for sailing. Because number
one, the towels, if there was wind that was heavy enough to take the mast out, to just mast the boat, then those towels certainly wouldn`t be sitting
there. And also the historical weather for that area for this day, for Sunday, had a maximum wind strength of 13 miles per hour is how they
recorded it and that definitely would have blown the towels away long before it would have taken the -- it wouldn`t have taken the mast out, but
wind would have blown the towels away long before it took the mast down, plus, you see a lot of mast associated --
BANFIELD: Sure, debris. Yes. Exactly. So then if you just look to the right of this circle, to the right of the towels, the hatches are open,
which suggests that perhaps this was not some terrible wave and the boat capsized then righted again. These Q boats almost never do. I mean, in an
ocean, it`s still kind of tricky. And those hatches, they were filled with water.
MUNNS: Yes, the hatches were open strategically because it was a hot day in Louisiana. And you would need ventilation down below. And that`s what
they were open for. But yes, they have been swamped (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: That would be obvious.
MUNNS: The boat could have sunk.
BANFIELD: Harry, what about the giant fender that`s down? Whenever I leave a dock, one of the first things ha happens, fenders come up. Small
boats, big boats, everything. And it particularly on this boat, have a fender that`s huge and also very long. It is in the water. You don`t
typically cruise with the fender down.
MUNNS: Correct. That`s, you know, that could be attributed to, you know, poor housekeeping. Normally, people raise them, but there`s no safety or
strategic reason to get them up. Just a matter of like I said, good housekeeping.
BANFIELD: Or maybe someone came rafting up to them to join them at anchor. I mean, it is entirely possible. You throw a fender down if someone comes
and ties up to you.
MUNNS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: OK.
Let me move along if I can. Kerald Smith, you are Sadie`s ex-husband. Very close with her. Are you getting any information from the police about
what this investigation is finding out because we are getting very little?
KERALD SMITH, SADIE TRIBODEAU`S EX-HUSBAND: We are getting the same thing you guys are getting. We haven`t gotten much. What we did, the coast
guard told me personal that when they found the boat, they actually put the anchor down on the boat.
BANFIELD: They did. So it was adrift.
KERALD SMITH: Yes, it was a drift.
BANFIELD: All right. Well, there`s something that`s informational as well. And do you know about the relationship between Sadie and Michael Farley?
Anything about whether they were some call them boyfriend, girlfriend, others say they were friends. What do you know?
KERALD SMITH: From what we can gather from the information we have on her phone and from what she told her cousin, they were not. She saw him as a
friend. I think she was enlisting his help in finding a place to rent when she was moving down there and they just kept talking. Probably told her he
had a sailboat and she likes boating. And she was hey, that`s sounds cool.
BANFIELD: Right now, as we look at this case, Michael Lee Farley is not a suspect in this case. Police have certainly not said so. He is not
charged in this case either. He is being questioned. And they said quite frankly, they don`t want to talk about consistencies or inconsistencies
right now because they want to continue the questions.
But Lizzie, what do you know? Did your best friend tell you much about Michael? And did you know much about him? Did you have any concerns at
all?
LIZZIE SCOTT, BEST FRIEND OF SADIE TRIBODEAU: I didn`t know anything about him. She never mentioned him just like with, you know. Really nobody
knows anything about him.
BANFIELD: I mean, this has got to be an excruciating time for both of you. As well you know as Sadie`s family. How are you all processing what
happened out on that water?
SCOTT: Well, it`s been a few days. And I think the shock is kind of wearing off and it`s starting to sink in a little bit. We will honor her
life soon and it`s been obviously very tragic. And yes, I think we are all just dealing with it the best that we can.
[19:15:01] BANFIELD: So sorry you are going through this especially with so many unanswered questions.
Karen Smith, as a forensics specialist, can you help me to understand when the forensics are tackled in this case, Sadie was in the water from Sunday
presumably until Tuesday. What will that do in terms of trying collect any kind of forensics about injuries or anything else for that matter?
KAREN SMITH, FORENSIC SPECIALIST: Well, there will be some decomposition that has taken place. Now the water is going to possibly speed that up.
The water in Lake Pontchartrain at that time was about 88 degrees. So that may speed up the process. We are also dealing with organisms in the water.
That can help with that process as well.
We have to remember that drowning is an exclusionary diagnosis. Meaning, they are going to discount every other possibility before they go with
accidental drowning as the cause of death. They are going to look for any subcutaneous bruising, any kind of strangulation, possible blunt force
trauma, things like that on her body. And they will be b able to determine that even though she had been in the water up to 48 hours.
BANFIELD: And then, Parag Shah, don`t forget, you know, Michael was also in the water for a long period of time. Just ten seconds left. Will that
present a difficulty for investigation?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think based on his statement, you take his statement with the forensic evidence and that`s kind of where you are going
to see how the pieces all fall together.
BANFIELD: Well, my thanks to all of you.
Lizzie and Kerald, my heart goes out to you as you try to process all of this and get to the bottom of what happened to Sadie. She certainly was a
beautiful woman. And I am so sorry for your loss.
And my thanks to our investigators as well. I`m actually going to ask you, Karen and Parag, if you can stick around. We have another story tonight.
Confounding. Two brothers. Go on a late night massacre at their very own home. Five people dead. But they planned to kill ten times that many all
across the country. Tonight, one of them has just found out how long he will spend behind bars and where after he found out his brother would
suffer the same kind of consequence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:21:02] BANFIELD: It`s an old expression, be stab in the back. It means when someone betrays you and it`s totally survivable except for the
emotional scars. But the Bever family in Oklahoma brings that expression to an entirely different level. Because for them, being stabbed in the
back was not survivable at all.
Their teenage sons tried to massacre the whole family. And many of the stab wounds were indeed to their backs. Out of nine family members, five
of them were murdered. Just two girls survived while their parents and three of their siblings were butchered by their older brothers. And now
both of those boys are behind bars for life. Don`t ask why he is smiling in that mug shot. Who knows how much they are going to think of their
little brother, Daniel, that little 12-year-old who managed to hide in dad`s office and call 911 before both Robert and Michael got to him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Broken Arrow 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, where are you at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you the only one there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. My brothers attacking my family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your dad is attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, my brother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Who is attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s attacking your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is it? Do you have --?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: That little boy was stabbed nine times in the back after he reportedly opened the door for his big brother, Michael. Michael, who had
stepped aside and told his other brother and fellow killer, Robert, he is all yours. And Michael is the one who was sentenced today to five life
sentences. Back-to-back. Better known as consecutive. One for each of the family members that he helped his brother to slaughter. But not until
after he told the police why he and his brother, Robert, wanted to kill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you guys talk about being on the news and getting to each other on TV and stuff? What kind of things did you say and talk
about?
MICHAEL BEVER, SUSPECT: Mostly about how we were planning on killing both people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BEVER: And we would become famous and would get on Wikipedia lists of famous people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. That`s a big deal, yes. I mean, did you think they might even make a movie or something or a TV show?
BEVER: I don`t know about a good TV show, but --.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you guys talk about that?
BEVER: Yes. Definitely talks about that (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Samantha Vicent, she is a staff writer for the Tulsa World. Also Steve Kunsweiler, he is the Tulsa County district
attorney who prosecuted Michael Bever and defense attorney Parag Shah is with us as well, himself a judge as he mentioned, in the Atlanta area.
Thank you to all three of you.
Samantha, if I could begin with you. You know, it is -- I think most people can`t believe this story is actually true. That two teenage
brothers would look to massacre their own family. But for fact - that the facts keep getting worse and worse and worse as they actually wanted to go
on a country wide killing spree and kill dozens and dozens of people. How did these two kids become so sick? Do we know what led them to do this?
[19:25:36] SAMANTHA VICENT, STAFF WRITER, TULSA WORLD (on the phone): Not exactly. We have seen some evidence presented in the trial about some
materials like a journal that the siblings had kept that detailed some of their intentions. Namely like you mentioned, after the family was supposed
to have been killed, they wanted to go to different places around the country, such as like gas stations and restaurants and kill a certain
amount of people at a time. But because they were caught before that, they never got to that point. However, Robert Bever, the older brother, had had
a shipment of ammunition sent to the house that was scheduled to arrive July 23rd, 2015, which way after the homicides had taken place.
BANFIELD: The way this crime had unfolded was chilling. It is without question chilling. And that question that the interrogator asked, do you
think a book or a movie might have come of this. Is that what you were thinking? I can`t imagine it wouldn`t because this would be a
quintessential horror movie.
I want to play for you the interrogation of Michael. Especially when the police officer who`s asking him questions asking about tricking his little
brother because those little brothers, two of them, were locked away. One in the bathroom and one in the office. They were adjacent to each other.
Two little brothers terrified about what was going on and the way they got them to open the door was tricking them by saying we`re victims, too, the
brothers coming after me. Have a listen to how he actually tells the cop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You pleaded with, I guess when they were locked in the bathroom and the room they were locked in?
BEVER: Bathroom and right next to it is my dad`s office. Daniel locked himself in the office. And then I was like, I said, help, Robert is after
me, and they both opened up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And which room did you go?
BEVER: I went into the bathroom and I stabbed Christopher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Steve Kunsweiler, wow, I can`t even imagine prosecuting this case. I can`t imagine living with this case on your desk, Let alone having
to face these children. They were kids themselves. Teenagers. Did you see the younger one, Michael, as the master mind, as the brains behind
this? And the older one as the one who carried out the harder work of getting the product to make this happen?
STEVE KUNSWEILER, TULSA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, certainly from my perspective, they are equally responsible for the deaths of their family
members. But Michael, while he was younger, certainly had the in my opinion, a lot of where with all as far as the execution of their plan. We
know that during the course of the murders after they had slit their sister`s throat, Michael, it was Michael who was the won that ran to the
house alarm and disabled it to keep the neighbors from hearing what was going on inside the house. It was Michael who took the phone from his
brother who`s making that 911 phone call and destroying that phone to intercept that call. It was Michael who was encouraging his brother when
his brother was attacking their father. It was Michael who was encouraging his brother after they were concerned about law enforcement being there to
run out the back and get out the back and plan. Michael was no innocent character in this horrific murder.
BANFIELD: The jailhouse storybook that was released is pretty telling. Cartoon like drawings with crayons from these kids. And I just want to
read one of them and show our audience what was found.
Once upon a time, there were brothers named Michael and Robert. They hated their family so they killed them. The end.
And you probably noticed they were five dead bodies and two gunmen. It looks as though these are the etchings of a 3-year-old.
Mr. Kunsweiler, it doesn`t look like these are the etchings of an 18-year- old. I think at the time of the crime, a 16 and 18-year-old. I guess that leads to my next question. What, in your estimation, caused these boys to
act this way, or is this the old estimation that some people are just born bad?
STEVE KUNZWEILER, TULSA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, that -- your second thesis is the same as my opinion on this case. I mean, this family
was home schooling their children but from all signs that we had, nothing was untoward when the 13-year-old, the surviving 13-year-old testified and
was asked about physical or sexual abuse taking place in the home, and what might explain those behaviors. And she described that she didn`t see
anything that she would characterize as abuse, that maybe the dad was a little bit harder on the boys.
But don`t be mistaken, when you`re looking at that book, you know, he`s in jail. He`s in jail because he`s killed five people, and they`re not going
to give him some object that might be sharp, maybe could be used to as a weapon. They gave him crayons to write in a book, so don`t be mistaken
that that`s somehow is a childish rendition of his version of the facts. It was clear throughout this case, I mean there`s nothing in that book that
says I`m sorry I killed my family. I`m sorry I did this. Even at the sentencing hearing, it was all about Michael Bever. There was never one
time where he uttered that, you know, I really regret what I did, and I`m sorry what I did to my family. I never heard those words out of his mouth.
BANFIELD: And there`s still the surviving 13-year-old, the 2-year-old, both of them as we understand have been adopted by another family,
nonfamily members and that they are doing well. I thank you for your service to the community, Mr. Kunzweiler. I`m sorry that you had to live
through that nightmare. Even from the perspective of it being your job, I`m just sorry that you had to see this in your community and this poor
family had to suffer this horrifying evil. Thank you for your time.
KUNZWEILER: Thank you for covering the story.
BANFIELD: And thank you all so, too, Samantha (INAUDIBLE) for reporting. Parag Shah, I`m going to ask you to stick around.
There`s real outrage tonight after a very hungry little boy, and who wouldn`t be after waking up in the morning, went searching for food in his
home but then accidentally ate a dish of meth. Possibly thinking it was cereal. So, what do you think is going to happen to the dad?
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: You cannot always keep track of what your child is eating. They will plow through junk if you`re not watching closely. But if you`re in a
house with no food and a starving child, you better be prepared that something is going to go wrong. And unfortunately, Curtis Collman was not
prepared after his 8-year-old son died when cops say he ate his father`s meth. And not because he was curious and accidentally overdosed, because
he was hungry and because the meth had been sitting out on a table on a glass plate which Curtis Jr. might just have mistaken for cereal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. TOM BARKER, JACKSON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: An 8-year-old child more than likely suffered for many hours. Yes, that`s true. Anybody that
is a parent, you know, would be emotionally upset. And it kind of hits home if you have kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Even more heartbreaking is that Curtis Sr. decided not to call 911. Not even when his little boy started twitching and scratching and
hitting his face on the floor, burning up. And police say he actually tried to keep others from calling 911 as well. Someone eventually did and
the police came, but Curtis Jr. was soon pronounced dead and, yes, of a meth overdose. 180 times the lethal amount. Even though his dad told
police, Curtis probably had just gotten into some of those cleaning supplies. You know the ones that we all keep in the house like Pine-Sol
and bleach.
I want to bring in my panel. Crime & Justice Producer Michael Christian, also retired Detective and Forensics Specialist Karen Smith and Defense
Attorney and Judge Parag Shah is with me as well. Michael, 180 times the fatal amount. But in nanograms, I can`t even believe there are this many
nanograms in one plateful of meth.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, HLN CRIME & JUSTICE PRODUCER: 18,000 is what was in this child`s system. 18,000, and as you say, that`s 180 times the lethal
dose.
BANFIELD: So, the circumstances where the child woke up, and tried to wake dad up, dad said go back to bed, we`ve got nothing to eat. Child went down
to the kitchen area and began to find something to eat and then what?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, he found these brown crystals, brownish, reddish crystals on this plate. He thought -- according to police, he thought they were
cereal. He then woke up the dad a little while later and he was -- he was convulsing, he was banging his head as you said. He was having all these
reactions. Father tried to pour cold water on him to cool him down, but did not call for help.
[19:40:03] The father did eventually call a female friend who came over and said you`ve got to call 911. You`ve got a problem here. She says that at
that point, the father ripped the phone out of her hand, pointed a handgun at her and said that if she called 911, he would kill all three of them.
BANFIELD: And she left.
CHRISTIAN: She left in fear for her life.
BANFIELD: I suppose understandably although why didn`t she go to the police. I haven`t heard about that part of the investigation. Let`s go
back to Curtis Collman, who is now facing, let`s see, failure to register as a sex offender as part of another case in his history, neglect of a
dependent, pointing a firearm, as you mentioned, and possession of meth plus intimidation. Eventually, Curtis went to his mommy`s house and that`s
the dead child`s grandmother.
CHRISTIAN: That`s correct, and she said you`ve got to call 911. She said, no, her son was hysterical, he was crying. He said no. Now, it`s
interesting because he had told the female friend who had come over originally, I`m not going back to prison and that`s why she couldn`t call
911.
BANFIELD: Let me bring Karen Smith. And Karen, you just heard Michael Christian report that astounding number, 18,000 nanograms of meth. Had
this child gotten some kind of medical attention earlier, is that survivable?
KAREN SMITH, FORENSICS SPECIALIST: It`s hard to say. At this point, we are talking such a mass quantity of methamphetamine. I mean, we`re talking
0.5 micrograms per liter in blood concentrations is enough to kill an adult. We`re talking 180 times that are 90 micrograms per liter. I really
don`t know if this was survivable but the child was exhibiting every single classic symptom of methamphetamine overdose. The hyperthermia, the hot
body, arrhythmias, psychosis, hallucinations, and violent behavior. You know, maybe in the beginning moments, he may have been able to get some
help, but because the father decided to wait and wait and wait and not get help and threaten anybody else who wanted to, the child didn`t have a
chance at this point.
BANFIELD: So, Parag Shah, apparently, one of the things that this man, Curtis Collman III was overheard saying as I`m not going back to prison,
which stands to reason, he was arrested because he failed to register as a sex offender for an incident with a minor quite some time ago. But does
that play into the prosecution against him that he let this child die because he didn`t want to go back to jail had they seen that he had meth.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, because I think the defense would be, look, I was also high on meth. I wasn`t in my right state of mind. I
panicked. But statements like that show that you were aware of the situation and you basically were selfish. You were thinking about yourself
as opposed to your son, and that`s bad. And so, the whole game here is, for the defense, is mitigating his sentence to try to get him, you know, as
less time as possible. But another child that shouldn`t have been with their father.
BANFIELD: Yes, I sense that mitigating is going to be a real uphill battle in this one. Michael Christian, thank you. Parag and Karen, if you`ll
stay on, I have a few more questions for you as well.
Tonight, there`s new information coming out about Mollie Tibbetts from a man who says he saw her out jogging the night before she disappeared.
You`re going to hear his account next.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: For the past 22 days, investigators have flooded the zone in their desperate search for Mollie Tibbetts. The 20-year-old University of
Iowa student who disappeared three weeks ago after going on an evening run in Brooklyn, Iowa. It`s a town of just 1500 people, and tonight, we`re
hear from one of those people who says he believes that he saw Mollie the night that she vanished as she went out for that jog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEVIN RILEY, NEIGHBOR: She jogged down the street, up the hill and you know, that`s just nothing of it until I heard somebody was missing, and
then it like really hit me and it`s like I haven`t seen that runner since then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That was Devin Riley, who also says that Mollie had her hair up in a ponytail and was wearing an arm band for her cell phone or some kind
of music device. He told "Good Morning America" that he went to the police who followed up with a visit to his home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RILEY: They were really polite and didn`t assume, I don`t think, and they just did their (INAUDIBLE) less than 10, 15 minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Also, tonight, we are hearing Mollie for the first time in her own words from 2016, talking about her faith and the power of prayer and
how it gave her strength to rise up to a personal challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOLLIE TIBBETTS, MISSING WOMAN: So the day came for a conference cross country and I just remember waking up and being so nervous because I hadn`t
run in a meet for over week. So, for the first time in my life, I prayed before but I had never gotten down on my knees and just prayed to God. And
I asked God to give me the strength to make it through it, to tell me what to do, to help me out with whatever happened. And I ended up getting my
best time of the season so far. And in that moment, I kind of knew that that was God`s way of showing that the power of prayer was really something
and it was something that he used in my life and everyone`s life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Karen Smith and Parag Shah who are still with me now. Karen, just quickly, the notion that Kevin or Devin Riley may have
seen Mollie the night she disappeared and actually attested to that armband with a music device. We`ve all wondered if she had that phone with her or
a Fitbit with her that might have actually put information into the cloud, that`s got to be really critical information for investigators.
SMITH: Absolutely. All of this is critical information and here`s why. Not only the armband with the cell phone and the Fitbit that would`ve been
around her wrist, likely, you now have a narrowed timeline for law enforcement. That`s why it`s critical for these witnesses to come forward.
He talked about 9:00 p.m., the last I heard it was 10:00 p.m. So not only does law enforcement have a more narrowed timeline, they also have a
direction that if it was Mollie that she was traveling up the road and he said up the hill. So, it may give them some new areas to search, some new
leads to follow, and yes, some new critical information off of that cell phone if indeed, it was her jogging.
BANFIELD: So, Parag Shah, real quickly, the family has said that police told them that she may have actually returned home after that jog and been
on her laptop doing homework. There`s also this new reporting that there was no sign of a struggle. This comes from her boyfriend`s brother Blake
Jack. There was no sign of struggle in the place where she was staying. Does that confound things or does that help?
SHAH: Well, in my mind, it kind of helps because it narrows the search down to looking to people that may know her and using her laptop to try to
make those connections seeing that there was no struggle or something like that. So, you know, who knows, hopefully, the investigators can get some
answers.
BANFIELD: Well, 800-452-1111. Again, 800-452-1111, if anybody out there knows anything -- again, that town is small, 1500 people. So, all eyes on
the national media can only help in the search for Mollie Tibbetts. Karen and Parag, I`m going to ask you to stick around if you would, please.
There is this story that has sort of fascinated us all, the movie "Jaws," could it hold some clues to an ice cold case? What do you think? She was
a woman in a movie -- in that movie, an extra, but she was only in it for that flash on the left, but could she be the long lost murder victim on the
right, the murder victim known as the lady in the dunes that we`ve never been able to identify? That`s "ONE MORE THING," next.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One of the most popular tourist destinations in Vietnam is the historic city of Hoi An. That`s where you`ll find CNN Hero Neal Bermas who
trains at-risk young adults for a career in the booming culinary and hospitality industry there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEAL BERMAS, CNN HERO: We developed this Oodles of Noodles. It`s not quite a tour, it`s not quite a cooking class, it`s not quite a
demonstration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We show the guests how to make the rice noodle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, teach the guest how to say in Vietnamese.
BERMAS: They`re practicing their English and they`re developing their confidence and their table side with the guests, and their tasting and
having fun. And this is very, very uplifting experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You can see Neal and other stories at cnnheroes.com. And "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, and it`s actually a question, could there be a
link between the blockbuster movie "Jaws" and a 1974 cold case?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to need a bigger boat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Stephen King`s son Joe Hill has floated a theory that an extra on the movie set seen for just an instant on screen could actually be the
so-called Lady in the Dunes. I want to show you a picture of the extra in that flash on screen. She has a blue bandanna in her hair and she`s
wearing jeans and then a composite of the so-called Lady in the Dunes, the woman who was never identified. "Jaws" was shot on Martha`s vineyard over
the summer of `74 and the unidentified remains of that Lady in the Dunes were found in July. Police found a blue bandanna and a folded pair of blue
jeans under her body. So, what do you think? Could it be the same person? And if so, do you know who that woman on the left is because they just
didn`t keep extra records back then like they do now. Still a mystery.
We`ll see you back here again Monday night, 6:00 Eastern. Thank you so much for watching, everybody. Stay tuned, "FORENSIC FILES" begins right
now.
END
