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CUOMO PRIME TIME
Trump Calls Omarosa "A Crazed, Crying Lowlife" & "Dog;" "Stand Your Ground" Shooter Charged With Manslaughter. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired August 14, 2018 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for that, Anderson.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
Omarosa says Trump knew about the hacked DNC e-mails before WikiLeaks dumped them. This would expose a new level of lying for Trump and potential issues with Mueller if it is true. This allegation is not in her book and is only worth something if she has proof.
Now, the White House and Trump say she cannot prove it. But they did say she was lying about him using the N-word, and today she dropped a tape that has another campaign staffer on it saying that Trump did use the N-word. So stay tuned.
The Trump campaign certainly seems concerned enough about Omarosa to take legal action against her. Rudy Giuliani is not handling that situation, but he is here to discuss the latest word on a Mueller interview.
President Trump can't keep Omarosa's name out of his mouth and off his Twitter feed, calling her a dog. Why so much attention and low life language about someone who has nothing to back up her talk supposedly? We'll debate.
And the latest Florida "stand your ground" case has a twist. The sheriff tried to let the shooter go, but the state is bringing charges. The killer was in court, and the family of Markeis McGlockton, the man he killed, is with us tonight.
This is a big hour. What do you say? Let's get after it.
CUOMO: A new claim about what Donald Trump knew about the hacked Clinton e-mails and when he knew it. Meanwhile, his team is on the attack. Trump and Mueller are not talking yet, but will they?
One person who knows maybe is here. Former New York mayor and Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: Hey, Chris.
CUOMO: It's good to have you. GIULIANI: Always a pleasure.
CUOMO: We'll get to the Mueller stuff. As you said, there's something new every day.
Omarosa's allegation is not in her book. We have seen no proof to substantiate what she alleges, but it is that she says with great confidence, certainly on television, he knew about the DNC e-mails before WikiLeaks dropped them.
GIULIANI: I know she's lying.
CUOMO: You know she's lying?
GIULIANI: I know she's lying because I was on the campaign more than she was. I was closer to them than she was. I was from about June to November, I was with him 24 hours a day.
The first WikiLeaks exposure, he was completely surprised. He asked me, do you think there will be more? I told him, I have no idea, but I heard some reporter on CNN, FOX, I don't know where, saying Assange has a practice of putting out the weakest ones first, that he builds it up, builds it up, builds it up. I said, I think this guy may have more than that.
We were surprised every time they did a disclosure. She was not as close to him as I was. If she's saying this and if it's not in the book, never said it before, I don't know if she was interviewed by the special prosecutor or not. It would be interesting if she ever said it to him.
CUOMO: Would they tell you if they had ever spoken to Omarosa? Do they --
CUOMO: So they don't have to tell you any --
GIULIANI: No, we would only know from our joint defense agreement if she had a defense lawyer who talked to us.
CUOMO: That's not the case?
GIULIANI: So we have about 25 of them, all of which were exculpatory, you know, innocent. I don't know, but I -- it's not in the book, I guarantee you she didn't tell the special prosecutor that. They're not going to soil their case with her. She's a little too much of a kind of far out --
CUOMO: Another person that the president decided was worth being in the White House and someone to have close. Only the best, Rudy. Only the best.
CUOMO: Yes, only the best. GIULIANI: You know, we will have -- I made a few mistakes like this.
GIULIANI: I don't want to say who.
CUOMO: You don't want to say because you don't have a name that comes close --
GIULIANI: Oh, I do. I have a couple.
CUOMO: -- to what we've seen coming in and out of this White House.
GIULIANI: I have a couple that my staff -- my friend Peter Powers, now gone, god bless him, told me don't hire this guy. Don't hire this guy. And I did, and --
CUOMO: You think that the president has brought only the best into the White House?
GIULIANI: Yes, pretty much. Jared.
CUOMO: How does he qualify as the best?
GIULIANI: Jared's a very smart guy.
CUOMO: I'm not saying he's not. There are a lot of smart people that don't have the pedigree to be in the position of power that he is.
GIULIANI: OK. Pompeo.
GIULIANI: Wilbur Ross.
CUOMO: Wilbur Ross?
GIULIANI: Wilbur is --
CUOMO: Because he's a good businessman? That means he's going to be a good public policy person.
GIULIANI: Secretary of commerce. He's done a great job. Anti- regulation, clamped down the regulations.
CUOMO: But do you think he represents the kind of ethical standards and what we want out of position --
GIULIANI: I know Wilbur from --
CUOMO: Conflicts of interest? GIULIANI: Absolutely. I know Wilbur from the time he worked for me.
Did a whole big study on the Port Authority for me, how to straighten out the Port Authority.
CUOMO: But that was from the outside. Not you have him running the Port Authority.
GIULIANI: No, no, I had John Dyson, one of the players (ph).
CUOMO: I remember you as a young boy, watching you campaign.
GIULIANI: Boy? I wish.
CUOMO: No, not you. Me. I wasn't around when you were young boy.
But you were someone who was always skeptical of wealth and power. You want to make your money, get out of public service. I heard you say that more than once because you're not going to make it in it, at least not legally.
GIULIANI: Did I say that?
CUOMO: Yes, yes.
CUOMO: So, OK. But you know what? I'll give you Wilbur Ross. I'm just saying in general, you cannot look at the attrition --
GIULIANI: OK, number one guy, Tillerson, I thought was a big mistake because I wanted the job. But I think Pompeo's terrific. Pompeo's terrific.
CUOMO: Right. Listen, I'm not arguing about Pompeo. Not whether he's terrific or isn't, but certainly he's got a pedigree that would put him in play.
GIULIANI: I think Kelly is very good (ph).
CUOMO: As a pedigree as a general that puts him in play. But you have 34 percent attrition already in the people who have had turnover in the cabinet positions. You've had a cascade of wild cards go in and out of the White House. This is -- Omarosa is a reflection of who the president puts his trust in.
CUOMO: Fair point?
GIULIANI: Well, she didn't have a high position.
So, Clinton went through two people before he got an attorney general. He got two of them with nanny --
CUOMO: And Donald Trump put Pete Sessions in there, who was supposedly his best friend, and now --
GIULIANI: It would have been better if Sessions had a nanny problem.
CUOMO: Jeff Sessions, not Pete Sessions. Pete Sessions is a good congressman in Texas.
GIULIANI: If Jeff had a nanny problem, probably a lot better. Remember the first two Clinton people had nanny problems.
CUOMO: Jeff Sessions had to recuse himself from an entire investigation.
GIULIANI: I don't know why he didn't come to the president with that. I really don't know. I don't know what the hell he's doing now but --
CUOMO: Well, because his main duty was to the administration of justice, and he recused himself because he had to because he was fatally conflicted.
GIULIANI: OK. If he believed that, he should have told the president beforehand.
CUOMO: Beforehand --
GIULIANI: Before he got confirmed by the Senate by one vote.
CUOMO: Aall right. Fine. Let's stay in the present, though.
Omarosa, you like to argue in the alternative. If she has some piece of proof that demonstrates that the president was aware of what e- mails they had, what would that mean?
GIULIANI: I am 100 percent confident she does not. It's not true. He didn't know. I know he didn't know.
CUOMO: And if he did?
GIULIANI: I know it even beyond being his lawyer.
CUOMO: If he knew, is it a problem?
GIULIANI: No. But --
GIULIANI: No. He didn't know.
CUOMO: I hear you.
GIULIANI: I'm not even going to get into the hypothetical. He did not know. CUOMO: OK, because you get into the hypothetical about Mueller and
the Comey --
GIULIANI: Yes, that confuses the hell out of people.
CUOMO: Listen, I'll tell you what confuses me. I understand arguing the alternative, and you do it well. That's not the issue. I cannot find you ever saying the president did not have that conversation with Comey until this weekend.
GIULIANI: I did all the time. Every time I gave --
GIULIANI: Right at the very beginning. I said here's the reason we're worried about perjury. We're worried about a perjury trap because the president says he didn't have the conversation about Flynn.
CUOMO: The way --
GIULIANI: Comey says he did.
CUOMO: The way that Comey says he had the conversation, he didn't have it. Not that they never spoke.
GIULIANI: Didn't happen at all. Didn't happen at all.
CUOMO: I think that's a new position.
GIULIANI: It is not.
CUOMO: But you've never said it before that we can find on the record anywhere.
GIULIANI: Yes, it is. I've said it from the very beginning. I said it over and over again.
CUOMO: But then why do you keep arguing in the alternative if you have high ground that it never happened?
GIULIANI: Because I can get him out of it legally. I can get him out of it factually. He's got both defenses.
CUOMO: Makes Comey a crazy liar by the way.
GIULIANI: He is.
CUOMO: For this to be true, Jim Comey has to be a crazy liar.
GIULIANI: OK, I'm going to tell you why he's a crazy liar. Because he put that in his statement, and in May of 2017, he testified before Congress, I think, that Trump never said anything to him that influenced him, tried to influence him, tried to obstruct him. If that had happened in February -- and also if Comey had been -- felt that he was being obstructed --
CUOMO: He said he took it as a direction.
GIULIANI: -- he had a duty to report it. It's misprision of felony, five years in prison if you don't. If I'm the director of the FBI --
CUOMO: And the president says to you, do this, and you feel directed but you don't want to do it, you'll go to jail?
GIULIANI: No. No. I have to report it.
GIULIANI: Because it's a misprision of felony. It's a federal statute.
CUOMO: So you're saying that if the president did say to Jim Comey what Jim Comey says it is, that there's a crime involved?
CUOMO: But only for Jim Comey, not for the president of the United States?
GIULIANI: Well, the president says he didn't say it. And the best evidence of it is Comey never reported it.
CUOMO: Contemporaneous memos. You know how persuasive they can be in a court of law. Contemporaneous.
GIULIANI: I'd like to -- I'd like to see the contemporaneous --
CUOMO: Well, you will if there's going to be discovery because of any kind of trial. I'm sure you don't want to get that far.
GIULIANI: No, we don't. But if we do, I would like to see if it was written after or before. I guarantee you, it was written after.
CUOMO: Well, he says --
GIULIANI: And it was written before, he's got a serious problem. He didn't report it.
CUOMO: I don't see that as a big problem.
GIULIANI: It is a big problem.
CUOMO: Help me understand.
GIULIANI: OK, I'm the U.S. attorney.
GIULIANI: Somebody calls me up and says, fix the case.
CUOMO: Right. GIULIANI: I write it down, and I bury it for four months. That's a
CUOMO: But you do not fix the case.
GIULIANI: Yes, but I -- the attempt to influence me is a crime. I'm not a private citizen like you.
GIULIANI: Or me right now. As a U.S. attorney, I would have to report that. I knew that. I reported to that.
CUOMO: But it seems a little tortured, Counselor, that it's a problem for Comey, but it's not a problem for Trump.
GIULIANI: It's not a problem for Trump because he never said it. Comey claims he said it.
CUOMO: Comey does say it, and he says he wrote it down at the same time, which is going to be persuasive.
GIULIANI: If he did, he had to report. What was he holding it for? He wanted to work for the guy who was trying to lean on him?
CUOMO: So shame on him that he didn't report it.
GIULIANI: He's a liar.
CUOMO: But if the president said it, then he's a liar.
GIULIANI: He didn't say it. I'm telling you he didn't say it. Jay and I have said to the president, if you said it, it would be easier on us. But we can defend it.
You just said, go easy on him. You didn't say, tank the case. Get rid of the case. You could have ordered him to do it. You could have done a lot of things.
CUOMO: And the president has said to you I never said any word to him about Flynn ever?
GIULIANI: He said I never --
CUOMO: In that context?
GIULIANI: Yes, yes, pretty much. Yes. That's pretty close.
CUOMO: So, Jim Comey made up the whole conversation that he walked across the room. He asked the guys to leave, which means if they were to do an investigation and find out from those two men whether or not they were asked to leave that room and leaving just Comey and the president there, there you're going to have corroboration of at least the context of the meeting. That Comey made up all of that about the president and yet never disclosed it to anyone.
GIULIANI: Why? Why wouldn't he disclose them? Why wouldn't he go back to McCabe --
CUOMO: That's what I want to know because it sounds like crazy talk --
GIULIANI: Why wouldn't he go back to McCabe and say, you know what the president just did to me?
CUOMO: Do we know that he didn't?
GIULIANI: No. McCabe testified that there was -- McCabe testified at approximately the same time that Comey testified that there was no ever attempt to influence any investigation.
CUOMO: Has McCabe ever testified that Comey never told him about that conversation with the president?
GIULIANI: Yes, I think.
CUOMO: I don't think so.
GIULIANI: I know the first part.
CUOMO: Well, let's do this.
GIULIANI: McCabe testified --
GIULIANI: -- that up until May, there was never any attempt to influence any investigation.
CUOMO: Just because they didn't feel that they weren't going to be able to investigate or that they weren't obstructed or that they did everything the same way anyway doesn't mean there wasn't a solicitation. It doesn't mean that it wasn't put out there by the president. They're different things.
But let's do this. Let's take a break. We'll do a little Google search.
CUOMO: Then we'll come back, talk about what all this means for the current thinking about the most important piece of the puzzle, which is whether or not the president sits down with Mueller. And you can argue that's not an important piece at all.
GIULIANI: I think it's important.
CUOMO: Oh, how about that? Rare agreement.
CUOMO: We will be right back. Important Q&A right after this.
CUOMO: All right. We're back now with Rudy Giuliani.
And what we've been discussing is the significance of credibility of different actors in here. And a big argument for the president and Rudy Giuliani is that Jim Comey can't be trusted, which plays into their concerns.
Now, the contemporaneous writing of a memo by Comey that this is what happened is going to be persuasive for a court. Him going back and telling people that he was working with, you know, I just gave you this article. We found three FBI officials. This is what he just said. This is wild.
GIULIANI: So one of them is McCabe.
GIULIANI: But McCabe testified in late April, early May, that there was never an incident in which anybody put any pressure on anyone to influence an investigation.
CUOMO: Well, look, I'm going to have to --
GIULIANI: Whatever this was, whatever this was, it couldn't have been viewed that way.
CUOMO: It could have been viewed that way by Comey. But, look, let's say this is all a matter for Mueller, right, and it all comes in on him. You say I'm worried about a perjury trap. As you know, a perjury trap is a form of entrapment whereby it is demonstrated that a prosecutor brought somebody in under oath just to catch them.
GIULIANI: That's the only reason.
CUOMO: Not as part of a legitimate fact-finding --
CUOMO: But how is that no? This is a very legitimate fact-finding mission.
GIULIANI: Because he -- Mueller knows exactly what Trump's answer is going to be. We're stipulating to the answer. The answer about Flynn is, I didn't have the conversation. He doesn't need anything more. He can say he's lying, not lying, except he doesn't get perjury if we don't put him into a situation where he swears under oath.
CUOMO: But a perjury trap is where they're not bringing him in for fact-finding purposes.
GIULIANI: They don't need any fact-finding. They know his answer.
CUOMO: But there are tons of questions they can ask him about what he did, why he did.
GIULIANI: They're showing (ph) me tons of questions.
CUOMO: Well, I'm sure they are, right? That's part -- that's part of the negotiation process.
GIULIANI: Don't ask me question. You want to take that question out? I'll give you --
CUOMO: I would never take that question out.
GIULIANI: Well, then you have to.
GIULIANI: Because then you're trapping him into perjury. You know the answer already.
CUOMO: No. I know an answer he's given in the past already.
GIULIANI: But we're willing to stipulate that's the answer today.
CUOMO: Right, but that's because you're not under oath and sitting in front of me as a federal investigator.
GIULIANI: Well, the only reason I would do that is because they want to charge with perjury.
CUOMO: And he's given different answers about things.
GIULIANI: Because they want -- he's never given a different answer about that. He's always said I never had that conversation.
CUOMO: I've never heard him say that, I never spoke to Comey about Flynn.
GIULIANI: I'm going to tell you he said that.
CUOMO: I believe you. I believe you that you're saying that. But I've never heard it.
GIULIANI: He will testify to that. He will testify, I never talked to Comey about going easy in any way on Flynn.
CUOMO: Is this going to be a matter of semantics, though, and language, that I said if you could give him a break, he's a good guy.
GIULIANI: He didn't say that. I wish he -- Jay Sekulow and I tell him, I wish you said that. We can defend that.
CUOMO: So Comey made it up, went back, told three guys he works with and wrote a memo.
GIULIANI: I have no idea what he did. I hired Comey. I'm completely baffled by the kind of scoundrel he's turned out to be.
CUOMO: Are you any closer to having a deal with Mueller to sit down?
GIULIANI: No. Haven't heard from him in a week.
CUOMO: How do you interpret that?
GIULIANI: I think they're waiting for the -- I hate to bring up the case. I think they're waiting for the Manafort case. I think they feel this they win, they're going to be empowered.
If they lose -- and I don't know what -- it doesn't have anything to do with us. We're trying to tell them, I don't care what happens with Manafort. The one thing that proves is you don't know anything about us. Manafort -- the whole trial, nothing about Trump.
CUOMO: So once this is done, now they're going into their closing arguments. One way or another you'll see if it's about that or not.
Let me ask you something else -- go ahead.
GIULIANI: One way or another, it's a terrible test. It doesn't matter. If they convict, they acquit, a hung jury.
CUOMO: Yes, no, you're bringing it up. I don't know that that has anything --
GIULIANI: It doesn't matter.
CUOMO: You're saying it -- I'm not saying it does. I'm saying you put it out there --
GIULIANI: It's my surmise as to why they're delaying.
This Omarosa situation, you think Trump's handling it the right way, calling her a dog, saying that she's the worst?
GIULIANI: I don't know. Somebody --
CUOMO: And that she was told by Kelly how terrible she was at her job but says, keep her. She says good things about me?
GIULIANI: You know, it's horrible when you get betrayed by people you try to help and people you're close to. And in the case of Cohen and Omarosa, it's a personal betrayal. I think he feels that -- he knows that she's not telling the truth about a lot of stuff. I think he feels personally betrayed by it.
CUOMO: Let's assume that that's true. Is this the way to handle it? Is this the way to speak about somebody?
GIULIANI: No, we'll handle it differently.
CUOMO: I know, but shouldn't there be a standard for the highest elected official in the land of the most powerful country in the world?
GIULIANI: And you're trying to take him down and make money on your book? You're peddling this ridiculous book that --
CUOMO: But isn't how you deal with criticism --
GIULIANI: Here's the way I --
CUOMO: Would you call a woman a dog if she said things you don't like?
GIULIANI: Wayne Barrett wrote a ridiculously awful biography of me. And here's how I handled it. I haven't read it. I never said anything else about it.
I knew that a lot of it was untrue. Some of it was true. Things I didn't even know. I said -- I didn't want to sell his book.
CUOMO: I am shocked that more people around this president don't say what is so obvious, which is he has to learn to act more in accordance with the seriousness of the role that he has. You can feel betrayed. You can be wronged. You can have high ground and not surrender it to the kind of --
GIULIANI: You can say that to President Trump, and he has had tremendous achievements given the way he acts. He's had tremendous achievements.
CUOMO: Despite them, yes.
GIULIANI: Economy, the best ever in a long time.
CUOMO: Depends who you are.
GIULIANI: Oh, come on. Best ever.
CUOMO: The gap between rich and poor is growing faster than it ever has before.
CUOMO: Look, that matters. Sorry, Rudy, these are the people who voted for him.
GIULIANI: Lowest unemployment for African-Americans and Hispanics, lowest ever.
CUOMO: It is low.
CUOMO: They got the jobs wrong today though. Luckily, they corrected it.
GIULIANI: God bless them for doing that.
Situation in North Korea may be moving in the right direction. Situation in Iran, as far as I'm concerned, moving in the right direction.
CUOMO: But we don't know.
And, look, all I'm saying is how you do it matters. That's why I wanted your take on it. I wanted your take on things --
GIULIANI: Well, he's a good man, and he -- it's very, very hard when you're being unfairly accused.
CUOMO: Everybody has a choice of how to deal with unfair things --
GIULIANI: He's dealing with it --
CUOMO: We expect certain things.
GIULIANI: He's doing as well or better than anybody who in his position and he's remaining focused on the job. His performance is --
CUOMO: We've seen men this that position attacked from all sides to the core of their being, including Obama. We saw it with Bush. We saw it with Clinton.
Nobody ever spoke to people and dealt with humanity the way this president does.
GIULIANI: Maybe nobody has been as honest as him. And also, if you look at it, if you look at it, their achievements don't come close to the achievements he's had.
CUOMO: I think it's a little early on that. And in fact-counting is anything, we've never had anybody with the level of mendacity that he has. Not even close.
GIULIANI: It's in the eye of the beholder.
CUOMO: No, facts are not in the eye of the beholder. You're always welcome here to argue the case.
GIULIANI: OK, Chris.
CUOMO: Thank you, Mr. Rudy Giuliani. Appreciate it.
GIULIANI: Thank you. a dog. Sarah Sanders, his press secretary, says she can't guarantee
you won't hear him on tape saying the N-w CUOMO: All right. So, you heard the mayor's take on Omarosa.
Trump seems to be sparing no ammo. That's why he called her a dog. Unpresidential? Of course it is. Rude? Of course it is.
Sexist and racist? I don't know about that. So, let's put up it for a debate with these two, next. See what Urban is saying.
CUOMO: Welcome to what Trump said is not OK. The president called Omarosa ord.
Does Trump respect people of color or not?
Let's debate. Symone Sanders and David Urban are the great debaters tonight.
Symone, your answer?
SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. And, Don -- I'm sorry. Chris, I don't need to --
CUOMO: Did you just call me Don?
SANDERS: I did, I did.
CUOMO: We have made progress in this society, have we not, my sister?
SANDERS: I was texting with don literally 20 minutes ago. So, my apologies.
But I don't need to hear a tape to know if Donald Trump has hostilities towards people of color because we know he's an original birther. We know that Donald -- and people just willingly ignore it. We know that Donald Trump was sued by the Housing and Urban Development Department in 1973 for housing discrimination. We know that he said a judge could not do his job while he was on the campaign trail because he was of Mexican descent.
I just really like -- for me, this isn't a debate. And for many other people, it's not. People have willfully ignored who Donald Trump has repeatedly shown us who he is. That's all that this really is, Chris.
CUOMO: Dave, under the principle of we know what you show, he has said lots of ugly things about people of color.
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He said lots of ugly things, correct. He's done some pretty good things for people of color. Ask our colleague Van Jones about what he's doing on prison reform and other things that actually matter, getting people of color jobs.
CUOMO: How he talks doesn't matter? What he calls them doesn't matter?
URBAN: No, it does matter, Chris. And, look, I think he should be more sensitive to that.
In this case today, this constant beating the dead horse of Omarosa here, I think that, you know, we should be -- if you want to focus on things that matter, I think we should focus and talk about -- and I know Symone would probably like to talk about this. Keith Ellison, the deputy director of the DNC, serious allegations of domestic abuse, and the DNC remains silent.
Talk about people of color and women of color. Here's an allegation leveled by a woman, very credible allegation, and the DNC remains quiet, silenced.
Al Franken, who was a sitting senator, resigned his seat for far less. And Keith Ellison tonight is running for the chief law enforcement officer of the state of Minnesota with no --
CUOMO: One of the reasons Franken had to resign is because people like you were chasing him out of office saying how terrible he was and doing that what-aboutism like you're doing now. I'm talking about Trump and --
URBAN: I'm not going to let you do it, Chris. I'm not going to let you do it.
CUOMO: I'm not going to let you do it, my brother, because you're --
URBAN: Rewind the tape, Chris.
CUOMO: Let's blame other people for what they did because that makes what Trump does OK and you know it.
URBAN: Chris, rewind the tape on Al Franken. I said Al Franken should be given due process. I'd never been one to --
CUOMO: Due process for (INAUDIBLE)
URBAN: No, I didn't say -- listen, there's ethics procedure in the House to take place, and he was pushed out by Democrat.
CUOMO: What I'm saying is I'm talking about the way the president talks about people of color, and you say let's talk about Keith Ellison. Does that make it OK?
URBAN: No, it's not OK.
CUOMO: If I were charging you with a crime, could you say, but I know this other guy who committed a crime? You get out of it that way?
URBAN: Listen, Chris, I don't think it's OK. And, listen, from a purely PR perspective, why would you give Omarosa more oxygen if you're the president? The best thing the president could have done is simply ignore her.
CUOMO: That's a good point. Symone, David just made a great point. When you don't sweat somebody,
when you don't fear what they know or what they can do to you, you know what you do? You ignore them.
SANDERS: Ignore them.
CUOMO: You don't empower them.
URBAN: That's what the mayor just said about the guy who wrote his book, right?
CUOMO: That's what he said about Wayne Barrett, but Trump has never done that, certainly not with Omarosa. He's taking legal action against her.
SANDERS: He is. You know, but, Chris, I think the fact of the matter here is there's two things. One, Omarosa has a very long history with the president. She knows him very well. That means she knows what can push his buttons.
If there's one thing -- I know Omarosa personally. If there's one thing she's skilled in is getting all the way up someone's skin. That's what she's done here with President Trump. We know that President Trump cannot resist -- he is unable to hold himself together and keep his composure.
And if it were me, if you did not do anything, if what Omarosa said had no credibility, then why would you give it any credence? Why would you continue to dedicate more than nine tweets to it today?
URBAN: Well, listen, I think the president is a counter-puncher here. We all know that. He can't sit by when --
CUOMO: That's a lame excuse, Dave. Such a lame excuse.
URBAN: That's not a lame excuse. I'd just like to hear, listen, I'd like to hear from both you and Symone about why the DNC remains silent about a really serious issue.
CUOMO: We're looking at the allegations right now. I have to know what it's about before I start going with it. It's a standard that sometimes people don't like to apply it.
CUOMO: But we like to know what we're talking about. But this is what I'm talking about with you, Dave.
SANDERS: Chris, can I respond to something that Dave said very quickly?
CUOMO: Go ahead.
SANDERS: Because I think that -- there's an issue here. To dismiss what the president said about Omarosa today -- and I'm no fan of Omarosa. URBAN: I'm not dismissing it.
SANDERS: But to say there are far bigger things we should be talking about as though the president calling a woman a dog, as though the president using language --
URBAN: Symone, it's wrong. It's wrong. Symone, it's wrong. I said it.
SANDERS: I want to reiterate, though, this speaks to a larger pattern of the president. And frankly some people in the president's orbit.
URBAN: Symone, the president's also called about a dozen white guys, Mitt Romney, other people dogs. He's called lots of people dogs. So, he's an equal opportunity offender in that regard.
CUOMO: No --
SANDERS: I think that the president has repeatedly targeted people of color and women in general specifically. And that is not something that should be dismissed. That is something that --
CUOMO: He went after the NFL players --
CUOMO: It was curious he went after the NFL players right on the eve of the Charlottesville anniversary. That's who he chose to target as protests right on the eve of the Charlottesville anniversary. That was weird.
URBAN: Chris, I wouldn't advise that. Look, it's not smart.
CUOMO: I know, but it's not just about advising. It's about condemning. You and I have kids, OK?
URBAN: Chris, it's not behavior that --
CUOMO: If my son said something like that, I would be on him fast.
URBAN: As is I, as is I, absolutely.
CUOMO: And if he looked at me and said to me, pop, I hear you. But you know what? Bella, remember when she scratched your car with a rock? Do you know how much that would help him? The inside of a donut.
So why do you do it for the president?
URBAN: What am I doing? I just said it's wrong.
CUOMO: You're saying it's wrong, but then you pivot to Ellison.
(CROSSTALK) URBAN: Chris, I'm just amazed by the silence -- I'm amazed by the silence of this network and others on this Keith Ellison issue.
CUOMO: But you're calling him out, it's a false equivalency.
URBAN: It's not a false equivalent.
CUOMO: Calling what the president does and saying it's wrong, it's how you get respect.
URBAN: Chris, I'm not. Listen, I'm saying that we've spent all day talking about Omarosa. It's a dead story.
CUOMO: She also said today that he knew about the DNC hacked e-mails before Wiki dropped them. If she can prove that, he's got an issue.
URBAN: If she can prove it, he does have an issue. You're absolutely right. Yes.
CUOMO: And she said he used an N-word. Then she put out a tape with Katrina Pierson admitting that he said the N-word.
CUOMO: Then Sarah Sanders said she can't guarantee us you'll never here him on tape saying the N-word. Wow.
URBAN: Lynne Patton is an incredible African-American woman who has been close to this president for many, many years. Said she approached the president. She talked to the president. She asked him specifically. He denied it.
I take Lynne Patton's and the president's word in this case over Omarosa's word.
CUOMO: Last word for you, Symone.
SANDERS: Look, the problem for the president -- the problem for the president is he's been a repeat offender as a liar. So we can't take his word, and at this point Sarah Huckabee Sanders' word from the White House podium.
URBAN: Symone, you know Lynne Patton. She's as honest as the day is long.
SANDERS: I actually don't know Lynne Patton. I do not know her.
URBAN: OK, you know Omarosa.
SANDERS: And I know -- and which is why I think if Omarosa says she has receipts, she'll provide them.
CUOMO: All right. We'll see. She only -- we only know what she can show.
To both of you, thank you for making the arguments. Appreciate it. URBAN: All right. Thanks. Thanks, Symone.
CUOMO: Be well.
"Stand Your Ground", that's the controversial self-defense law that often seems to translate into, I can kill you if I want to. It's under close scrutiny again in Florida. You remember the killing of an unarmed black man over a parking space last month? I know you haven't heard about it for a while, but please pay attention to this now.
The shooter was allowed to walk away by the sheriff even though it was all caught on tape. I told you then that seemed hasty. Turns out it was. There's a big update on the case, capturing national attention.
The family of the man who was killed that night is here. Please stay with us.
CUOMO: Almost a month after he killed a man, Michael Drejka finally appeared before a judge, this time on manslaughter charges. He had been walking around free since the day he killed Markeis McGlockton in Clearwater, Florida, thanks to the local sheriff, who said the stand your ground law didn't allow him to even make the arrest.
I argued then that was an overly generous interpretation and invited the sheriff on. He refused.
The state's attorney is now pressing charges for manslaughter.
The mother of Markeis' three kids is Britany Jacobs. She's here. So is Benjamin Crump, the family's attorney.
Counselor, good to see you. Thank you very much for joining us, Ms. Jacobs.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MCGLOCKTON FAMILY ATTORNEY: Thank you.
BRITANY JACOBS, GIRLFRIEND OF MARKEIS MCGLOCKTON: You're welcome.
CUOMO: First, how are the kids dealing? I know they're young. I know you've wanted to give them a very specific sense of what happened, so to kind of ease the reality for them. How are the kids doing?
JACOBS: Oh, it is real hard right now, especially for my 5-year-old. You know, he told me the other day that, mommy, call daddy. He's going to wake up. Call daddy. He's going to wake up. So, it's very, very hard right now.
CUOMO: How are you doing with it? I know you're a key witness in the case. I know you were right there. I understand that you have some restrictions on you in terms of what you can talk about.
But how are you doing with all of it?
JACOBS: I'm just being the strong woman that I am. I'm just holding on and just keeping my strength together.
CUOMO: As a general sense, do you believe that Mr. Drejka had any reason to fear for his life that night?
CUOMO: Counselor, let me get you in on this conversation. The sheriff had said, look, I'm a lawyer, and the standard is very clear, and I can't make an arrest here because, you know, he has a reasonable belief that his life was in danger.
That's not what the law says. Probable cause still applies in investigating from a law enforcement capacity. Yes, Florida did add a new wrinkle to the law that makes it easier for a potential defendant, a shooter.
But what did you think about what the sheriff did in this case?
CRUMP: Well, I think that he was wrong. Not only me, also the community and Britney's family, but also the NRA. They did not feel his narrative was correct that this was "Stand Your Ground" because, Chris, the essence of this case is on that video.
You see it all for yourself. You see this strange man come up to the car, walking around the car, and then he starts to yell and curse and assault this young lady with her two babies in the back seat.
Now, just imagine that, Chris. A mother in the car with her babies and a strange man comes yelling and cursing at her.
So, someone tells Markeis in the store that his family is under attack. He comes out. We all see it on the video. And he goes to protect his family and his property. If anybody had the right to stand your ground, it was Markeis McGlockton.
And then when he pushes him, this wannabe cop follows back and then he pulls a gun. And right there, you see Markeis start to retreat. He takes 4 1/2 steps back. Britany starts to retreat.
There is a white gentleman who walks into the video frame and he jumps back and starts to retreat. Everybody is retreating. He is not in imminent fear of his life. There is no justified reason for him to pull that trigger.
And what's so troubling is that little 5-year-old Markeis, when you look at the last part of that video, he reaches out for his father, and his father falls at his feet. And that will be the last time he saw his father alive.
And so, Britany and these children are going to need some serious counseling to try to deal with this traumatic episode.
CUOMO: Well, I know Britany Jacobs, you're very strong. You're in the business of helping other people deal with their illness. We made a pledge at the beginning of this case, and there are other members of the media that will do the same. We will stay on this. We were on it in the beginning. We're on it now that the state is
investigating. Everybody's goal is the same, fairness under law.
I promise you, we'll stay on the case. You're welcome back here with your counselor whenever you want to discuss what's happening and what it means from your perspective.
Counselor Crump, thank you very much. Britany Jacobs, I appreciate you taking the time.
JACOBS: Thank you.
CRUMP: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: My best to the kids.
JACOBS: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right. There's another story in the air about sensitivity to people of color. Sarah Sanders, the president's spokesperson, cannot guarantee that we will never hear president Trump on tape using the n-word. It's quite an admission from someone who rarely admits anything.
Don Lemon wants to tell you what this means, next.
CUOMO: Don Lemon is here.
Don, the president just fighting fire with fire in terms of how he deals with people who attack him, or is there something else in what we heard from Sarah Sanders today, who said, I cannot guarantee that you will never hear the president of the United States use the N-word on tape?
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: That last statement you made just about says it all, that here we are -- we're living in a time now where the representative for the president of the United States cannot deny unequivocally, cannot say that this -- she can't say that the president didn't say the N-word, that there's not a tape out there.
I can't -- when I look at the headline, I cannot believe it. When I looked at her answer, I could not believe it. And to say that what he does, what he's doing with Omarosa, listen, Omarosa is -- they both deserve each other. But to say that he's not using some sort of coded language when he calls her a dog, I think that's being disingenuous because he does that to so many people of color and women.
And when he does it, here's the difference. He can keep his deniability by not outright calling people racial epithets. He can just use other language that evokes that, and he gets the same response from his base or people who may not be so nuanced in the way these things work. So he can do that.
But you have to look at his history. You have to look at what he says about women and about African-Americans and about people of color. African-Americans, people of color often become the dog or stupid or unintelligence. People-- white men who he talks about, they will become like a dog, was fired like a dog, choked like a dog. They don't actually become a dog. There's big difference in that.
CUOMO: That's an interesting distinction.
CUOMO: And, look, there's a larger point about what people around him do in response to it, and how they excuse it.
LEMON: They make excuses it.
CUOMO: And how they blame it on not being as bad as other people did. We're going to take this on in the closing argument and I know you got it at the top of the show. We'll be watching, my friend.
LEMON: I like your mug, by the way. I need one.
CUOMO: I thought you meant my face. I'll talk to you later.
LEMON: No --
CUOMO: No mug for you.
In the age of Trump, nothing ever seems to move the needle with his loyal base, but decency matters. What Don and I were just talking about, what's in the air today, we're missing something that's very big and very obvious.
Closing argument, next.
CUOMO: Welcome back to PRIME TIME.
If my 12-year-old Mario called someone a dog, he would in the say it again in my presence. I guarantee you, he would apologize. In fact, if he said most of the things that the president says about people he is threatened by or doesn't like, his cheeks would be going. And that's because we teach our kids, we make our kids do right because it shows respect for people and respect matters.
So, don't defend President Trump calling Omarosa a dog. Don't defend him calling anyone a dog, period. Stop making it all OK whatever Trump says.
Fighting back is not automatically a virtue. Mama says if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing for a reason. Same in your house, right?
Discretion could be the better part of valor, same in your house, right? Why? Because this kind of ugly talk is contagious. It creates a coarseness that leads to unintelligent confrontation. You wouldn't say it at your best. You wouldn't let your kids say it.
Why let the president? This is the man charged with the greatest powers in the world over the mightiest nation and the most powerful people. We should expect better.
Our president should not be defended like some drunk guy in a bar who said some things and did some this but some how is not to be taken too seriously. He is in the most serious position.
And, by the way, he is playing you who excused his words and deeds, because insults are not insights. It's getting off cheap. Going personal in court or in a debate suggests you have no good arguments on the facts or the law.
And it seems like that now as well. And yet he is rewarded for knowing less and insulting people that he can't outthink. Trump is rewarded for crude language when it is misinterpreted as strength.
You know, I do a lot of self-defense. I do a lot of fighting. Every coach I ever had taught me when you're assessing a room, never fear the guy talking trash. If he were dangerous he would act, not talk.
And, by the way, this isn't about macho or might. This is about what makes someone worthy of respect and attention. It's about exhibiting real strength, sensitivity, forbearance.
It's always earlier s to say what Trump does than to bite your lip and to instead of saying mean things, prove her wrong. The irony is, tactically, by talking the way he does, he's only adding legitimacy to what Omarosa says and to her allegations. So, being decent could be tactical as well as ethical.
The bottom line is we have to be better than this. Division, indecency is getting us nowhere and take a look around. It makes us easy for lawmakers to do nothing. As the Bard, wrote Shakespeare, this type of behavior is the insane route that devours intellect and takes reason prisoner. It used to be that we looked to leaders to show us the way. But now, it is on the rest of us.
It's never OK to call someone a dog. You know that. So much of the crap that Trump says about her or other women or men, it's indefensible. We all know it.
So, why is it tolerated?
Now, one reason I want to discuss -- many of you will be quick to say because the base agrees. They feel the same way. Now, that is true for some. And Trump's ugliness has attracted fans that most Republicans would never want by their side.
But I get why others who support the president stand up for him, and it's not because they are bigots. I get their desperation for better out of the government, to get help for their families and I get that they made a bet on Trump and they don't want to see their man go down. I get it. I have many people in my life who feel that way and they're good people.
But, my Trump-supporting brothers and sisters, that doesn't mean you can't hold the president and all of our leaders to the same standards that you would your kid. The vice president wrote exactly what I'm saying about another president, Bill Clinton, that he has apparently forgotten in his new role. I want to remind you of his words.
If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The president of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the chief executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous.
And you know what? Mr. Vice President, you are right and say it now. We all know what's right and how people should be treated and we know why. It is not weakness. It is strength.
Insults are weakness. Better arguments, better ideas, better actions, those are the real blows. Demand that from our leaders. Demand they disagree with decency. Demand they help us to be better, not worse.
Don't let Trump off the hook by forgiving his language as a form of leadership. It isn't.
Thank you for watching.
"CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon right now.