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Oscar Winner, Jennifer Lawrence, I Was Treated In An "Abusive Way"; Interview With Stars Of "Call Me By Your Name". Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired August 20, 2018 - 14:00:00 ET
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[14:00:36] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Coming up, we are looking back at some of our favorite interviews this year. In
this special movie edition, my conversation with Oscar winner Jennifer Lawrence about her latest film "Red Sparrow." And on me too, she tells me
that she is being treated ways, which today we would call "abusive". Plus, my conversation with the stars of the hit Indie movie "Call Me by Your
Name." The film won a whole host of awards. Timothee Chalamet and Armie Hammer talk about their touching coming of age film about love and life.
Welcome to this special edition of the program. I am Christiane Amanpour in London. They say life imitate art, if that's true, "Red Sparrow"
starring Jennifer Lawrence could hardly have been more timely.
Here's a clip from the film.
JOEL EDGERTON, ACTOR: You see, I'm curious. Did you want me to know that you were following me, or are you just real clumsy?
JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: You Americans always think the rest of us are so interested in you, don't you?
EDGERTON: So what made you want to become a translator?
LAWRENCE: My mother is unwell. If I work for the government, the state helps me take care of her. My uncle helped me get the job.
EDGERTON: Your uncle is a very powerful man.
LAWRENCE: In my country, if you don't matter to the men in power, you do not matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: A Russian American intrigue. And that was Jennifer Lawrence portraying a young woman coerced into becoming a sparrow for the Soviet
Union. A real-life role in a once upon a time Soviet program that weaponized female spies. It's a movie for our era and she is an actress
for our time.
As you'll hear, Jennifer Lawrence is out spoken on everything, from abuse that she suffered to contemporary American politics. She join me in the
studio as she was promoting the films U.K. release, along with the Director Francis Lawrence, no relation, who also directed Jennifer in the
blockbuster "Hunger Games" franchise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Jennifer Lawrence, Francis Lawrence, welcome.
FRANCIS LAWRENCE, DIRECTOR: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: What about this story, it's a part of a trilogy, I think it's the first part of the trilogy in the era of Putin's spies, and the last one
is going to be called the Kremlin's candidate. What about this story at this time grabbed you?
J. LAWRENCE: Well, what's interesting is we started making the movie three years ago. So, we knew that it was exciting. We knew that it was unique,
it was dramatic, but was it really relevant.
And then, a year into making the movie, the Russia election with the U.S., all of that broke. And we're like, well, it's relevant.
F. LAWRENCE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: What did you think when that was happening? I mean, did you think, "Wow, we're sitting on a gold mine here"?
F. LAWRENCE: No, I mean, I certainly didn't. I didn't set out to make a political film in any way. I mean, I was really drawn in by the character
that Jen plays and her journey. I'm really drawn to isolated, lonely characters. I'm very lonely. Yes, very lonely, lonely journeys. And I
also love survival stories. And so, the character, to me, was a really unique way into the story.
So, it was a strange thing. We were actually in Hungary at the time during the elections. And to see this kind of news breaking and to see that the
movie started to feel more and more relevant and more topical, but we still never intended on making a political film.
J. LAWRENCE: No. It's not a political film. It's still -- the plot is fictionalized. The characters are all fictional.
AMANPOUR: And the character, tell me about your character.
J. LAWRENCE: She's a fascinating character because she's an antihero. She's an unexpected hero. She didn't ask to be put into this world and
she's also not -- she is a very flawed human. She's manipulative. She's cunning. She has moments of rage.
So, I thought that this was -- it's a very unique drama because it's not really talking -- we're not exposing the glamorous side of espionage. It's
very brutal. And what goes behind somebody living a double life.
AMANPOUR: And it's also very, in part, highly sexualized, right?
F. LAWRENCE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: I want to play what's quite a shocking clip from the movie, which really just is so raw and then, we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLOTTE RAMPLING, ACTRESS: Take off your clothes. Your body belongs to the state. Since your birth, the state nourished it. Now, the state asks
something in return.
You must learn to sacrifice for a higher purpose. To push yourself beyond all limitation and forget the sentimental morality with which you're raised
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's pretty brutal. How did you feel doing that?
J. LAWRENCE: You know, the preemptive anxiety is so much worse than the actual reality. I had had a good year to prepare mentally for what I was
going to do because we talked about it extensively when I read the script because I knew that there was only one way to do it. You know, we wanted
to -- we really had to go all the way if we were going to make this movie. So, I was either going to be comfortable doing the scenes or something else
should do it.
And so, I had a year to mentally prepare. The worst part was the night before. I didn't sleep at all. But then, when I got there, everybody is
so professional and so nice and they really do an amazing job of clearing out the sets and I was perfectly comfortable. And afterwards, I felt
empowered. I still feel empowered. And I can actually watch that scene.
AMANPOUR: Tell me what you mean by empowered.
J. LAWRENCE: I have just had a lot of insecurities when it came to sexuality and nudity and my body and I have just been carrying them around
for years. And I thought -- you know, when I read the script, I loved it so much. And I thought, if I don't do it and if I say no and I miss out on
a chance of working with Francis again and doing this movie that I love, it's almost all of these insecurities and fears win. And so, I felt like I
got something back.
AMANPOUR: And when you were doing this and, you know, as you finished the film, et cetera, I assume it was before the MeToo movement, before this
whole revelation started in October.
F. LAWRENCE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: So, you weren't talking about -- that wasn't part of the conversation at that time?
F. LAWRENCE: No. Not at that time.
J. LAWRENCE: No. It wasn't, but I feel like this is a perfect movie that we need right now. I think that, in all of our test screenings with women
and also just for me, I find it incredibly empowering and also opens up the conversation for the difference between consent and not consent. And you
know, I had a choice. I'm an adult. I made a decision. I knew what I was doing. And that's really the end of the story there that you aren't
comparable. So I think it's important to open up that conversation.
AMANPOUR: I just wondered because, obviously, in the research, I've been reading some of the issues that you brought up in the past. And you
mention that one of your early experiences with a female producer, I think it was, was almost identical to this. Tell me that story.
J. LAWRENCE: Yes. I had a hard experience on a movie where basically the producers were trying to illustrate to me that I was overweight, but I
wasn't. And a part of that was having me do a line up with women who are much thinner than I was.
And we had pieces covering our private parts, but were essentially naked. And then, I was told to use the photos as motivation for my diet. So, it
was dehumanizing in a different way. It wasn't -- I didn't feel - I was more - I don't know, mentally brutal.
AMANPOUR: And that was a woman?
J. LAWRENCE: Yes, it was a woman.
AMANPOUR: And I saw your face as she was telling that. So, you probably heard it many, many times. It is extraordinary when you think that that
kind of conversation can still be happening.
F. LAWRENCE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: That people in your position can actually still do that to people like Jennifer.
F. LAWRENCE: Well, hopefully, that'll change now. I mean, that's, I think, the great thing about people coming out and telling the story, is I
think there'll be great change.
But what I think it shows, and one of the reasons we made the movie, is these things have been happening for a very long time. And so, those
ideas, the ideas in our movie are not new. I think what's new is the bravery of the people coming out and speaking about it and the movement
that she is involved in to make the change.
J. LAWRENCE: Yes. Well, in creating a society that is supporting people who are coming forward, 97 percent of sexual abuse allegations are true.
There's a three percent that isn't. And I feel, over the past, we've focused on the three percent and it's been so easy to say, "Oh, well, she's
But if we create a community where survivors can come forward and talk, then there's going to be change, then there's going to be no way of going
AMANPOUR: Are you a survivor? Are you a MeToo-er?
J. LAWRENCE: I don't -- when I hear the harrowing stories of the victims of Harvey Weinstein and when I hear -- I don't feel right putting myself in
that exact category. I was certainly mistreated. I was definitely treated in a way that I think now we would call abusive.
I mean, I had to deal with being young and having executives or higher up, you know, putting their hands on my legs and not feeling like I could say,
"Please don't do that." But, no, I don't know. I don't know.
AMANPOUR: But as you say, both of you, the floodgates have been opened now, that you can talk almost about everything, the extremes of sexual
abuse and harassment and the kind of things that young girls are going to be looking at -- looking towards you, you are the millennial icon, and
they're going to hear this story about how you were shamed when you're a perfectly beautiful woman into somebody making you have a diet.
What would you say to the young girls who listen to you all the time and the young men who hang on your every word?
J. LAWRENCE: I mean, you have to know who you are and you have to know your worth and you have to know what's worth it and what isn't, you know.
I mean, if you're doing a physical role -- I mean, when I was doing the "Hunger Games", I did a lot of training. It was a really physical role and
I had to be in good shape.
There's a difference between getting in shape for a movie and being mentally abused and told that you're fat. A lot of people lose weight for
movies. They're gaining weight for movies. That's all OK. But that's a very different thing than shaming, you know, basically a teenager into
I mean, when we were doing "The Hunger Games", it's not like we told any teenagers that they should lose weight.
F. LAWRENCE: Yes. I mean, in fact, Josh Hutcherson had to lose a bunch of weight because he had been starved in the movie and we did it with visual
effects. I didn't want him to be unhealthy. You know, I would never ask that of somebody.
AMANPOUR: I wonder what you think -- people like you, all the men in Hollywood can really help change this. Because, obviously, it's not just
going to be the women, it has to be the men in all our professions. Where do you think it should start in Hollywood?
F. LAWRENCE: Wow. I think it can start on a lot of front. As somebody that employs people, I would say creating the safest environment as
possible. I always try to do that. I will continue to do that. I would encourage other people to do that, so that people feel respected and safe
and comfortable and can enjoy their work as they should.
I think one is to continue to tell stories about women. I think one is to hire women in front of and behind the cameras as much as possible, and so
that there can be a collaboration in terms of point of view in storytelling.
AMANPOUR: You used to --
F. LAWRENCE: I would also say, sorry, that I think that we also need more female executives out there in the world that are, you know, calling the
shots and hiring people like me or hiring other, you know, female directors.
I felt very lucky. I mean, our -- the chairman of our studio is a woman. The president of the studio is a woman. The creative exec is a woman.
AMANPOUR: So, that's a good environment. She's a woman. I'm a woman.
F. LAWRENCE: But that's really, really rare.
AMANPOUR: And you were, you know, splashed all over the headlines a few years ago for another sort of moment of activism when it was shown with the
Sony hack that you were not paid equally to your male co-stars in "American Hustle".
Has time changed that? Are you now satisfied that you are fairly and equally paid as a woman?
J. LAWRENCE: It's something I'm still diligent about. And I think, you know, I look for full transparency in all of my negotiations.
I think a few years ago -- I think when I wrote the essay, it was more about my mentality because this is an issue that -- my problems aren't
necessarily relatable to everybody, but it is. Pay inequity is an issue across the globe.
I was more interested in my own mindset of why I didn't think that I deserve to be paid equally. You know, at that point, I had won an Academy
Award. I had led movies to be number one at the Box Office and why, I thought, I didn't deserve to be paid equally than the men or that I didn't
think that it was possible.
Of course, I asked. Of course, I pushed. But I didn't want to push too far. And I think a lot of that has to do with opportunity. If women or
people of color don't have the same opportunity as White men, then it's harder for them to walk away from a job. It's easier for them to just take
a role. And we lose the negotiating power.
AMANPOUR: Let's just talk again about "Red Sparrow." You, obviously, have talked to a lot of CIA people. I mean, you've done a lot of research.
F. LAWRENCE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Did you ever find evidence of a CIA led "Red Sparrow" or sparrow program?
F. LAWRENCE: You know, what's interesting is I've heard a story. So, this was a real program that existed in Russia in the 60s and the 70s. I'm not
so sure it exists now. But I heard stories that the Americans had tries the sparrows full of their own but that it didn't work because the sort of
Eastern European views on sex were very, very different. And so, there were much harder to blackmail, which I found really amusing that somehow
there's you know, something very like --
F. LAWRENCE: Yes. Sort of pure mechanical about the American feel like, "Oh, no. My family can't know I've done this in Russia, the Russians."
The Russians didn't really care.
AMANPOUR: Jennifer Lawrence, Francis Lawrence, thank you both very much for being here.
F. LAWRENCE: Thank you.
J. LAWRENCE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's award seasons and this year, perhaps the fastest rising star is one Timothee Chalamet. The 22-year-old wonder kid arrives in a big
way this year with "Call Me by Your Name." A coming of age romance, which tells a story of a 17-year-old and an older graduate student who began a
secret gay affair in the sun-drenched Italian country side.
Look at this clip.
ARMIE HAMMER, ACTOR: That sounds different. Did you change it?
TIMOTHEE CHALAMET, ACTOR: Well, I changed it a little bit.
CHALAMET: I just played it the way Liszt would have played it if he'd altered Bach's version.
HAMMER: Play that again.
CHALAMET: Play what again?
HAMMER: The thing you played outside.
CHALAMET: Oh, you want me to play the thing I played outside?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I sat down this week with Chalamet and his co-star Armie Hammer. Their banter and their chemistry continues offscreen as well.
AMANPOUR: Timothee Chalamet, Armie Hammer, welcome to the program. This film has really struck a cord, I mean, everybody who's seen it is knocked
out by it. But it's kind of an independent, little movie, right? Were you surprised by the reaction and how it's been, you know, received?
HAMMER: Well, I definitely didn't go into the movie thinking that it would be sort of ubiquitously accepted and celebrated like this. I mean, it's a
beautiful script, but it's also - it's very much an Indie movie. We shot it for almost nothing in a little tiny town in the countryside of Italy
that was gorgeous.
But, it just felt more like a passion project and a labor of love. It wasn't anything that anyone was expecting to blow up. And now that it's
been so, you know, wonderfully received, especially considering how much of our, you know, blood, sweat and tears we put into it; it feels really nice.
AMANPOUR: Timothee, what about you, well, how do you account for how it's resonated?
CHALAMET: I -- you know, I guess there's no formula to people ever -- to knowing why people like things, but similar to what Armie just said; even
in my short experience so far, I've been a part of a lot of Indies that just don't get seen or don't get the distribution for the possibility to be
So, I don't what it is there. It can't be discounted that there really was like a fan base for the book already. Andre Aciman's novel that came out
in 2007, so that was part of it. And also, I just think it's the right time for an un-cynical, un-abashed, pure celebration of love and all the
sorrow that comes with it. But, a lack of gross, dark, subject matter for the sake of being cynical.
AMANPOUR: So, the characters, you were a 17-year-old, you were a 20-year- old graduate student and working for your father during the summer. How did it come about? I mean, you are straight guys playing gay guys in very
-- I mean, how did that happen? Was it the director? Did he throw you into the deep end? How did you create that chemistry?
CHALAMET: Well, I mean, they say experience is the greatest teacher and it was just about spending as much time with each other as possible in such a
way if we had four days with each other before we started filming and then sometimes my instinct with other actors and these intimate scenarios and
stories as to try to as much information as possible about them in a kind of artificial way.
When you have that gift of three or four weeks like we did, it's not even about that, it was -- I mean, I -- we just spent a lot of time with one
another. And then there's also -- and I'm sure Armie would have a lot to say about this as well, but I just feel like it's the random luck of the
universe that we hit it off as human beings and that you can really -- it's not about that first impression or randomness, but rather we just hit it
off, we had some sort of --
HAMMER: Similarly, we like each other too. You know, we -- our relationship really kind of grew really and obviously to how the film would
work. I showed up and he had been in the small town of Pantelleria where we shot it for weeks at that point.
Familiarizing himself with the place, you know. So, I showed up and we got on bicycles and we rode around and he said, you know, "That's a great place
to get coffee. That's where you want to go get gelato. That's where the great -- they have pizza there." And we just spent a lot of time together.
AMANPOUR: And the film was all about you guys on bicycles as well.
HAMMER: Yes. It's the easy -- I mean, it's an easy way to get around a small Italian town.
AMANPOUR: Exactly. But what did the director Luca -- what does he do to make you comfortable with these scenes?
HAMMER: He didn't treat anything preciously. It wasn't like, you know, on days where we were riding bikes, he would come up to us and go, "OK. Don't
forget, tomorrow we have to do a scene with nudity and you guys are going to have a love scene, so don't forget." Every scene was dealt with -- in
sort of this wonderfully sort of like languished, beautiful Mediterranean style where it was just a relaxed enjoyment of everything, whether it was a
scene where we were picking fruit off a tree; that became the most enjoyable we could do or if it was a scene where we were going to be lying
in bed, then that was the most enjoyable thing.
Every single scene was celebrated in a way where the same way that love is celebrated, and the fact that love it love is celebrated; every scene felt
like that. So, he just made us comfortable.
AMANPOUR: Is it a gay movie? Is it about -- I mean, your characters we think that you're gay, but towards the end of the film -- I don't want to
make a spoiler of that, everybody seen it, when you call up and say that, in fact, you're engaged to be married to a woman you've been on and off
dating and we're not sure whether your character is gay. You have relations with girls in the movie.
AMANPOUR: How would you describe the film?
CHALAMET: You know, I think it's to each his own and I think that goes for Elio and Oliver, but more importantly I think it goes for the audience
member. And I think it would be fair for anybody to watched this move and say it's a gay movie or a bisexual movie or a coming of age story or a
coming out story or a northern countryside in Italy summer movie or a first romance. I don't know, I'm always careful with this movie, at any project
that I'm a part of.
The art for me takes place in the head of the viewer not on screen. So to each his own.
AMANPOUR: One of the most arresting dramatic speeches was your father. When Oliver leaves for the summer and you're left alone and you're very
sad. I mean, your father's speech brings real tears to the eyes.
CHALAMET: Absolutely. And in the speech he's saying, you know, essentially, live and let live and accept the pain in your life and the
sorrow and that if you're feeling bad, badly, when you're grieving, whether that is for the loss of romance or another human being, you're doing it
perfectly. Pain is enough; you don't have to beat yourself up because of pain. That's a whole another layer you don't need. That's how I always
AMANPOUR: I mean it is, it's incredibly timely. It's all about tolerance as well. And how do you think that -- I mean, do you think this moment is
a moment that needs to hear that message of pure tolerance?
HAMMER: I think that that is a message that is always timely. I think that's something that people can always stand to hear more of. I think
that there is always a place for movies that are about love which is love is love is love is love. And it should be celebrated in any form it kind
of takes. Especially if it's genuine and from the heart and beautiful and to go back to Michael's speech, it's kind of that thing that don't cry
because it's over, smile because it happened. And I think that's a beautiful thing to remind people of.
AMANPOUR: And I wonder whether you, as guy's, also twig that he is basically telling you. as a young man, that it's OK to have feelings and
it's OK to be emotional. Because so many young boys are told, you know, be brave, stiff upper lip.
HAMMER: Don't cry.
AMANPOUR: Don't cry, yes.
CHALAMET: Man, I love that you say that, and that's been one of my favorite things to hear in response to the movie particularly about a young
male character that is experiencing the expatriating the spectrum of emotions like any human being because I think it's a particularly like
recent phenomenon be like very American as well that, like you said, it's supposed to be stiff upper lip or moodiness, or like Brando, or alcoholism
or whatever, you know. And that it's fine to just be, there's nothing wrong with that. If anything, wants you to embrace that.
AMANPOUR: I want to get to the MeToo movement because obviously, you know, Hollywood is sort of the crucible of what's going on in terms of women's
rights and women's push back against sexual abuse, harassment and quid pro quoi in your business.
How is that affected both of you? And do you also believe that it is you guys who have to help us women?
CHALAMET: I think absolutely and the importance of doing this interview with you as opposed to another journalist is not lost upon me. I get -- I
went to the "Golden Globes" with my sister and it was really great, like as it relates to the second part of your question as far as what's the guy's
role in this. Beyond the importance of the movement independently how does the guy fit in? And it was like an education talking to her. And where
she said, you know, "Your part of this new wave, you're a new generation, you're a millennial, you're the new generation. You have to be talking
And I guess I always thought -- I always think I'm unknown anyway but I guess I always thought as a consequence of my age or lack of cloud or
something that it's not ones responsibility but I guess that's where the problem lies, you know, it's everyone's responsibility.
AMANPOUR: And you, you're slightly older generation, you probably have seen this over misogyny in Hollywood.
AMANPOUR: What do you think? I mean, you know, there's this feminist writer, Lindy West, who just said, you know, "It is men who created sexism
and misogyny and they have to help us fix it." You know, it be if useful if one day Robert Downy Jr. = wakes up and demands equal pay for his co-
star et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think of that aspect of it?
HAMMER: I think that there is, I don't disagree, I think that there is a system in place that has a very wonky set of rules. And it seems kind of
one sided but like any system, it's not one element at fault, it's normally like a confluence of things. I think that, you know, part and parcel with
sexism, there's almost like a powerism that's in play as well, you know, where it's just been ubiquitously accepted for too long that those with
power are allowed to abuse it.
And because of sort of, you know, the male dominated nature of a lot of systems in the world, it's the men who have the power who are able to abuse
it. I do that there is a big role to play, you know. I think that there is -- you know, Kurt Vonnegut said it well when he said, "Artists are kind
of like the canaries in the coal mine." Because we're sensitive, you know, we're really in tuned to what is going on and it will kill us first because
we are so sensitive.
And the fact that this movement sort of found its genesis in the entertainment industry shows you that, you know, this is something that is
now starting to kill canaries and it should be something that expands past that. So there is a role to play, there is something to do and, you know,
you want to be aligned with the side of doing something as opposed to being part of the problem.
AMANPOUR: Do you have any qualms Timothee about working with Woody Allen? I mean, your next film has him as the director and as you know. he's been
accused by his daughter of sexual abuse. He's never been charged, he hasn't been arrested, none of that. But I wonder whether you think about
it and whether you ask, "How has he escaped the MeToo revolution?"
CHALAMET: It's going to be really important for me to talk about that and to really -- there's -- I hesitate to talk about it right now because what
I say will only -- it's only going to anger people. So, when that film comes out, if it comes out, that's going to -- it's going to be really
important to talk about. But that's not the time right now.
AMANPOUR: And what's next on the horizon for you?
HAMMER: I will be making a Broadway debut this next summer, here. So, I'll be here for the summer. Yes. Just trying to enjoy right now this
process, this kind of crazy wave of, you know, "Call Me by Your Name" love that the film is getting, trying to enjoy as much time with my family.
AMANPOUR: Armie Hammer, Timothee Chalamet. thank you so much.
CHALAMET: Thank you.
HAMMER: Thank very much. Nice to talk to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: And that is it for our program tonight. Remember, you can always listen to our podcast and see us online at amanpour.com and of
course follow me on Facebook and Twitter.
Thanks for watching and good bye from New York.