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President Trump Says Attorney General Jeff Sessions Doesn't Understand What's Going On; Was This the President's Worst Week in Office?; Senator John Mccain's Family Announces He Has Ended Treatment For Brain Cancer; Some of These Children Who Were Rescued From the New Mexico Compound Tell FBI Agents That Jany Leveille Planned Confrontations; Immunity Deals for Alan Weisselberg and David Pecker; When Gruesome Details of The Death Of 19-Year Old Penn State University Sophomore, Timothy Piazza, Became Public, College Greek Life and The Country's Fraternity System Came Under Intense Scrutiny. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired August 25, 2018 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN Newsroom, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York, thank you for being with me. I want to start with President Trump again taking down his Attorney General saying Jeff Sessions doesn't understand what's going on.
Here's the tweet, "Jeff Sessions said he wouldn't allow politics to influence him only because he doesn't understand what is happening underneath his command position." It's just the latest slam from a President who continues to publicly chastise his Attorney General.
It comes on the heels of a rough week for the President, his former campaign chief Paul Manafort found guilty of tax and bank fraud and the President's former personal attorney Michael Cohen even implicated the President's in-campaign finance violation.
Plus we learn of a couple of immunity deals in the Cohen case for David Pecker, long-time friend of Trump's and chairman of the "National Inquirer's" parent company and Allen Weisselberg, the Trump organization's long-time chief financial officer.
But was this the President's worst week in office? I got some perspective from an ex-Trump official who once had a front row seat to the White House turmoil. With us now former Trump White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci. Anthony, thank you for taking the time after such a crazy week.
Great that we have you on the show. When is the last time you spoke with the President?
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I would say early August, it was - it was probably right after the - the aftermath of the Juncker meeting after he met with President Juncker, we had a conversation related to trade and it looks like, you know, I know there's a lot of bad news out there but there is some good news too. It looks like the NAFTA deal will likely get signed, I don't want to make a prediction but seems like in the next two weeks that'll get done and that'll be very positive for North America.
CABRERA: And the President will be happy to hear you talking about the economy and to try to take away from some of the negative headlines this week.
Some people would argue this has been Trump's worst week in office. I mean, how do you think, behind the scenes, he's handling what he likely sees as betrayal? With Cohen's plea, with Pecker, with Weisselberg getting immunity?
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, no, I'm not - actually, I'm not really even trying to take away from any of that. I do think it was a very bad week, there's three or four dominoes that fell this week. I sort of agree with my former Law School Professor Alan Dershowitz that the President at least as the facts have been relayed and the facts that have been opened up so far, he hasn't done anything illegal.
But I do think, it's going to - it's an emotionally tolling week for the President because these are very close friends or in the case of the CFO, had also worked for his dad and the notion that these guys have been given immunity and the notion that there's things that they're going to be talking about that are probably 10 to 40 years old, I think that's got to be emotionally taxing for the President.
But I don't - I don't see at this point, as we unpeel the fact onion, even though the onion smells and it's uncomfortable, we haven't gotten to the illegality as it relates to the President yet so - so let's see what happens but I'm not shirking this.
I'm trying to look at it very objectively, it was a very bad week.
CABRERA: Who does the President turn to at his absolute lowest moments?
SCARAMUCCI: Listen, I mean, you know, I mean, I think the people that I saw that he turned to when I was working for him on the campaign during the transition and the short time I was in the White House are family members like Jared and Ivanka, Melania.
I'm sure he has a very good relationship with - with Bill Shine. My guess is that there's three or four of his friends that have been with him for many years, whether it's Howard Lorber or Richard LeFrak in the real estate area and so yes, he has a very open network of friends that are close to him, that like him personally.
And so I'm sure - I'm sure, he's talking to them. My guess is he's frustrated about the situation. I think you saw some of that frustration in the Fox News interview when he was talking about the flipping situation.
SCARAMUCCI: I don't really think he wants to outlaw flipping as much as he's just upset, he feels he hasn't done anything wrong and he feels that people are going to be pressured to say that he did something wrong in an effort to lower their sentences and things like that.
So that's where I think all of that's coming from.
CABRERA: I mean we know how much this President values loyalty, almost to a fault. The thing is though Trump doesn't give the same loyalty in return. When Papadopoulos went down for example, Trump said he was a coffee boy.
When Manafort went down, Trump said he barely worked on the campaign. When Cohen pleaded guilty this week, Trump attacked him. Is this why so many people are starting to turn because they see the President isn't going to have their backs?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, you know, I think that there's been a lot of symmetrical loyalty and I think when things transition from business into the political arena, the contact, it's more - you're going into a very different arena. Obviously, I learned that the hard way, Ana, but what ends up happening is - is that people get sliced and diced way more quickly.
So as an example, if you're going to put Omarosa in the Situation Room for two hours, you're going to lock the door and then you're going to very coldly fire her after she's worked alongside of you for 14 years, whether you like her or you don't like her, you have to ask yourself if that's the right way to treat her in the way, in terms of exiting.
You know, as it relates to Michael, I thought the President was very close to Michael you know, he sat pretty close to him so it's pretty hard to 100% disassociate yourself from Michael and I find it there's a bit of sadness for me because I like both of these people. I certainly have been very loyal to President Trump and want to help and support him.
And Michael Cohen is somebody I've known for at least a decade and I wish him and his family well and I don't like seeing the inter-nesting fight between everybody but I think what ends up happening is, if you get on the wrong side of the President, he'll light you up on Twitter, he'll light you up to his friends and he may want to rethink that because I don't know if that's necessarily helping them.
You know, I look at - you take away this personal stuff and you take away the intrigue of this week and you look at that employment data that we were talking about earlier or you look at all the good things that are going on in the world and in the economy with the right strategy and the right delivery and messaging, he could have a way higher approval rating than he does right now. So that sort of -
CABRERA: That's the thing, I mean, why isn't he talking about -
SCARAMUCCI: - attack, attack politics is probably not working. CABRERA: He's continuing yet to go after his Attorney General today, Jeff Sessions, he clearly sees him as not loyal enough. During your 11 days in the White House, you cleaned house unapologetically. Steve Bannon, Reince Priebus, gone. Does the President need someone like you to pull the ripcord on Sessions?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, well, he had somebody like me and it turned out, they didn't want somebody like me but you know, there are - you know, as it relates to Jeff Sessions, you know, I have a good - very close relationship with Jeff.
A little bit of trivia we sort of joined the campaign at the same time and so he was the first sitting Senator to endorse President Trump so you have to remember that he was very close to the President during the campaign and into the transition.
I think what happened here is after James Comey got fired, the decision to recuse and we can debate that decision and we'll let historians debate that, I think the President really didn't want him to recuse, the President feels firmly that he didn't do anything wrong, he didn't see that there was a -
CABRERA: Right. He said as much over and over again.
SCARAMUCCI: Well, of course, so he didn't see a need for a special prosecutor but again, you're not going to change the President's operating style, he's 72 years old now. I could sit here on your network and 15 other networks and I can call him tonight and if I get through on the switchboard, I can say, please don't be tweeting this stuff and don't be saying this sort of stuff, it's not helping you.
But he's on missile lock as a relates to these sort of sort of things because you know, he feels like Jeff needed to step - Attorney General Sessions needed to step it up for him and he doesn't feel like that that's happened so we can again debate all these things-
CABRERA: But why hasn't he fired Jeff?
SCARAMUCCI: - but here - well, it's Washington, you know, if you were in a business setting, he clearly would have been fired, in fact, one of the mistakes I made and I made a whole phonebook of mistakes in 11 days but one of the mistakes I made is I looked at it like an entrepreneur and I looked at it as a business setting.
And so I said OK, these guys are leaking, they don't have the right culture for the President, they're not serving him properly so I was taking the approach in business, started firing everybody. If the President would have fired Jeff Session -
CABRERA: So would you, if you were still there, would you try to help him with that?
SCARAMUCCI: No, because he -
CABRERA: In firing Jeff Sessions? SCARAMUCCI: No because he would have a nightmare on his hands in politics, it's very, very different in politics, Ana than it is in business. If Jeff sessions was the General Counsel for the Trump Organization, it's a totally different set of personnel decisions than if Jeff sessions is his cabinet member, Attorney General, has a ton of friends in the Senate.
So my point is that we talk about having business leaders enter politics but we do have to recognize that there are very different skill sets and very different norms of behavior between those two groups of people, business and politics so I think the President has to make that adjustment -
CABRERA: Well, not to mention, the Attorney General - sorry, I keep on stepping on you, I don't mean to, Anthony, there's a slight - slight transition delay.
SCARAMUCCI: No, that's OK, I'm sorry.
CABRERA: But let me ask you because you talked about the difference between business and politics, it's not just the difference between business and politics but it's also the difference between being the owner of a company, the boss of a company versus the head of the government.
And when you have different parts of government that are supposed to operate independently when the President talks about hiring or appointing Jeff Sessions to the Attorney General position because he is loyal and let me just read the reasoning, he says the only reason I gave him the job, I felt loyalty.
I mean this feud makes me wonder, is the President really just saying he wants somebody who is going to be in that office who is going to make sure that he himself is never in any kind of legal trouble?
SCARAMUCCI: Oh, let's apply a little bit in historical context so that you know, Jack Kennedy had Bobby Kennedy, Barack Obama, President Obama had Eric Holder and I think that there was a probably a much closer relationship in those two scenarios that I'm describing than the Attorney General Sessions and President Trump and so if you're making the point that he wanted somebody loyal like a General Counsel inside the Trump Organization.
And you don't get that as President, what you get is somebody who is the avatar and the leader of the Justice Department for the United States that's overseeing the FBI and the U.S. Marshals, et cetera, that point is well taken.
But I think what he's basically saying is, hey, I'm innocent, I think that's Presidents Trump's best defense, in his heart he believes, he's innocent, he doesn't think he's done anything wrong and so he would want Attorney General Sessions to acknowledge that after 17 or 18 months of fact-finding, he would sort of like to have this thing put behind him so he can focus on other things that'll be more productive to the American people.
But I - I get the point that you're making and that's where the tension is when you put a business leader into the - into the government, you have to understand that there's a lot more checks and balances and you have to understand that there's individual and siloed accountability.
It's not like he's just reporting to the President.
SCARAMUCCI: He has an ethical responsibility to the Constitution and the other members of the government and to the American people so I guess -
CABRERA: The President's - the President's been praising Paul Manafort, a now convicted criminal this week for not breaking like Cohen and then suggested on Fox News that flipping should be outlawed which you referenced earlier but let me play this soundbite for our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES: I've had many friends involved in this stuff, it's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal, you get ten years in jail but if you say bad things about somebody, in other words make up stories, if you don't know, make up so - they just make up lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Anthony, President Trump calls himself the law and order President, he says he wants to eradicate MS-13, he wants to get opiates off the streets, yet he's condemning people who flip to help prosecutors. So why is someone who says he has nothing to hide, not guilty of any crime so obsessed with flipping and calling people rats?
SCARAMUCCI: OK, OK again, just so you understand, I mean, this is my personal opinion, I'm not speaking on behalf of the President but just observing him and knowing him as well as I do, he's ventilating there and he's expressing some level of anger, he's not going to outlaw flipping, that's a time-honored tradition, even mayor Giuliani said that the other night.
But specifically to what he's getting at is he thinks, there's a process where people are forced to lie, they're forced to say things to the government or to the prosecutors in order to get their own sentences reduced even if it hurts somebody else that may or may not have done anything wrong.
So that's what the President is getting at there. But here's the problem -
CABRERA: But are innocent people worried about flippers?
SCARAMUCCI: He's the leader - Well, well, they would be if the flippers are going to lie about them, right? That's the point the President is making so here I am, an innocent person but this other person's facing 20 years in jail, he can get two years in jail if he lies about me and says, I did something nefarious.
And so his point is - is that there's an incentive to not tell the truth in the process of flipping but - but again I just think he's ventilating there, that is a time-honored historical position in the Justice Department. I don't think it's getting repealed. I think one of the issues is -
CABRERA: Sure, I don't think anybody thinks that's going to happen either, Anthony, but I mean, there is some irony, you got to admit, given that the President's own Personal Attorney Rudy Giuliani used to run the Southern District of New York and at the time the office was called the House of Pancakes as its nickname for how many people Rudy Giuliani got to flip in cases trying the mob.
So I mean the President talking about flippers isn't exactly outside the realm of his world. And I go back to if he has absolutely nothing to hide, is completely innocent, why does he care?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, again, I just tried to explain that to you Ana. He's afraid that somebody would lie and say that he did something wrong when in fact he didn't so that's why he cares.
CABRERA: But the evidence would have to be there in order to factually, accept that.
SCARAMUCCI: The evidence would have to be there but there's also circumstantial stuff that can get put together that could put the heat on somebody you know, you were mentioning some of the mob cases, under the RICO Act in terms of the way the Racketeering Act works, it's very loose, in terms of being able to expand the net of prosecution.
So - so listen, you're not really getting a lot of disagreement from me, I don't think the flipping thing should end. I think what the President is expressing there is a ventilation, he's upset and - and just to be very candid, he's the leader of the free world and he controls the bully pulpit and so you know, the recommendation I would be giving to him is be a little bit more measured about saying stuff like that.
I get that you're upset and I get the fact that you think that people could potentially say a mistruth about you and that's what's got you frustrated but - but saying that to Fox or on the national airwaves sends out an alarm signal to people and I don't think he means to be doing that.
CABRERA: Anthony Scaramucci, thank you so much for the time, sir.
SCARAMUCCI: Nice - nice to be here, happy - happy Saturday.
CABRERA: Happy Saturday, enjoy the weekend. A CNN exclusive, a former doorman at Trump World Tower says he is now free to speak about an alleged Trump affair that he says resulted in a child, details ahead, plus as Senator John McCain's family announces he has ended treatment for brain cancer.
His wife Cindy is now responding to the outpouring of love and support, how the Senator says he'd like to be remembered. And another disturbing twist in this story out of that New Mexico compound where 11 starving children were found.
The brazen attack, prosecutors says, the suspects were planning, here live in the CNN Newsroom.
CABRERA: We are getting more shocking details now out of New Mexico and a compound there, where we understand investigators found 11 children living in filth.
Of course there was the one child who was also found dead. At this point investigators now tell us that they have uncovered according to what they have learned from a couple of the children who were taken from this makeshift compound that the attackers or the suspects in this case were planning an actual attack in Georgia.
Let me toss it to our Polo Sandoval with more details.
POLO SONDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: According to newly filed documents, some of these children who were rescued from the compound telling FBI agents that Jany Leveille a co-defendant in the case planned to confront what she called corrupt institutions or individuals, such as schools, businesses, or even the CIA.
According to what we've learned in these documents, she also specifically names Grady Hospital in Atlanta as a possible target. In her journal, prosecutors say that, Leveille expressed that she was not pleased with that medical facility because of the way she and her mother were treated.
Prosecutors also writing in these court documents that this woman's partner Abdul Wahhaj deprived his three-year-old son Abdul Ghani of seizure medication and subjected him to repeated rituals. According to what these rescued children told FBI agents, these rituals were meant to cast out demonic spirits from the little boy's body.
I should mention that all five defendants were initially charged with child abuse, all of them pleaded not guilty to that, however two of the suspects were most recently charged with abuse of a child resulting in death. However, we do not know yet exactly how they plan to plead to those additional charges but this really just shows you that prosecutors are hoping to keep these five individuals behind bars ahead of their trial. Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
CABRERA: Under fire on multiple fronts, President Trump lashing out at the FBI his Attorney General. And the whole notion of granting immunity to certain witnesses, a member of the House Judiciary Committee joins us with her perspective on the President's ramp, up next.
CABRERA: And now with CNN exclusive, a former employee at Trump World Tower may soon be free to tell his story about President Trump's past. The ex-doorman now released from a so-called catch and kill contract with the parent company of the "National Inquirer."
He claims he has knowledge of an alleged secret relationship, years ago between Trump and a former housekeeper that he says resulted in a child. Those allegations have not been confirmed by any of the news organizations that investigated his claims.
I want to bring in CNN White House reporter Sarah Westwood, and Sarah, we don't know why this former employee is being allowed to talk now but what can you tell us about the contract he was bound by?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well Ana, obviously this represents another legal setback for a President who has endured several of them this week alone, we're learning that the doorman had received $30,000 during the Presidential race in exchange for his silence about what he says, he knows of an alleged affair Trump had years ago with his former housekeeper.
The doorman claiming that relationship produced a child. Now if the doorman had breached that confidentiality agreement with American Media Inc, AMI that's the parent company of the "National Enquirer," he would have owed that company $1 million but he's now free to speak about these allegations because the deal has been scrapped.
We don't know exactly why like you mentioned, but it comes as David Pecker the Chairman of AMI and a personal friend of Trump's has been granted immunity by investigators to talk about Michael Cohen, Trump's former attorney.
Cohen pleaded guilty this week to a number of criminal charges including two campaign finance violations that he said Trump directed. Now the White House so far is not commenting on these allegations from the doorman as White House officials struggle to explain the avalanche of scandals that have fallen on Trump, this week. Ana.
CABRERA: Sarah Westwood at the White House, thank you. As the President is now under fire from multiple fronts he is attacking his own Attorney General Jeff Sessions and claiming that the real corruption goes untouched.
Up next, we'll ask a member of the House Judiciary Committee for her take.
CABRERA: Family and close aides are surrounding Senator John McCain at his Sedona ranch, a source close to the family tells CNN as an outpouring of respect and prayers flood social media following the announcement that McCain is stopping medical treatment for his brain cancer.
Senator McCain is not just a legendary lawmaker, he is a Vietnam War hero who taught the country a great deal about grace in the worst of situations, he showed us that grace again in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, shortly after going public with his prognosis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCCAIN, SENATOR, ARIZONA: But Jake you know, every life has to end one way or another.
I think it was a playwright, I'll think of his name in a minute - he said, I always knew that no one could live forever but I thought there might be one exception.
You got to have joy, joy, listen, those joyful memories of the - of the campaign in 2000 are some of the most enjoyable times of my life.
We were the underdogs, we were fighting our way up, we went to Sedona, you remember, I mean everything was so magic about that campaign and I'm very grateful for having the opportunity. Remember, I'm the guy that stood fifth from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: My last question for you and - and I hope I don't run this clip for another 50 years but how do you want the American people to remember you?
MCCAIN: He served his country and not always right, made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of errors but served his country and I hope we could add honorably.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: That is for sure, we are hearing from Capitol Hill, House Speaker Paul Ryan tweeting John McCain personifies service to our country, the whole House is keeping John and his family in our prayers during this time. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer tweeting, "my thoughts and prayers are with Senator McCain and his family" and from fellow Arizonans Senator Jeff Flake tweeting, "God bless and keep this wonderful man and his family."
Let's turn back now to the President's new attacks today on the Attorney General. Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings from Florida she is on the House Judiciary Committee. Thanks for being with us, Congresswoman. I spoke earlier to your colleague, Congressman Denny Heck, he floated
the idea that these attacks on Jeff Sessions may just be an attempt to distract by this President, distract from what has been a pretty tough week for President Trump, what do you think?
VAL DEMINGS, REPRESENTATIVE, FLORIDA: Well, hi Ana and it's good to be back with you, look, we know that President Trump is the master distractor and if there was any week during his presidency where he needed as many distractions as he could possibly get, this has been one week.
But look, his attacks on the Attorney General are nothing new. I believe the President really believed that persons like the Attorney General and the FBI director and others' sole purpose was really to satisfy or work directly for him and not for the American people.
Look, I haven't always agreed with Attorney General Sessions, but what I am pleased with is that he is protecting the special counsel and the very important investigation that he and his team are involved in.
CABRERA: Democrats have been very critical of Jeff Sessions so I'm curious, would you support his removal if President Trump were to fire him?
DEMINGS: Well, look, we all know, I think, we've all agreed that the President of the Unites States has the power, if you will, to appoint whomever he wants to, but when a person is removed, there has to be - that removal has to be for just cause. And I believe the President and all of the President's people around him will have a tough time really coming up with a reason that's not associated with the Special Counsel or the Russia investigation to justify any removal of Jeff Sessions.
CABRERA: You are on of course the House Committee for Homeland Security. I wonder what you think about the latest news regarding the - the hacks that we've seen, we found out this week from Microsoft it fended off an attack from actors linked to the Russian government yesterday, the leading tech companies including Microsoft, Facebook and Twitter.
Of course those are social media platforms, they meant to talk about how to protect in the upcoming election from manipulation, do you think we're in a better place than we were back in 2016?
DEMINGS: Well, I think certainly as a member of the Election Security Task Force you know, we certainly number one, know that Russia interfered with the 2016 election and we have been working in all states across our nation to make sure that we are better prepared for 2018.
But what we also realize is that this is an ever - it must be an ever vigilant effort that we can't take our eyes off of actors like Russia that never really take their eyes off of us and I believe, we are in a better place but we have to be vigilant every day to make sure that Russia or any other foreign actor that wants to undermine the democracy or our elections will pay a cost for it. CABRERA: And of course that is at the heart as well of the Mueller investigation as it's really trying to get to the bottom of Russia's election meddling. The President said this week that he could easily run the Mueller investigation. What do you think would be the consequences if the President were to fire the Attorney General and forced the removal of Robert Mueller?
DEMINGS: Well, Ana, we're just going to hope and pray and work hard that that does not happen, that the President does not remove the Attorney General without just cause and that certainly, he does not fire the Special Counsel. The American people have spoken that they want - that they support the special counsel and they want the investigation to be concluded.
The statement from the President that he could run the investigation himself is just ridiculous and we know that that cannot happen nor would Congress even though too many members of Congress have been silent with all that has gone on in the last year and a half, I have to believe that Congress would not allow such a ridiculous thing to happen.
CABRERA: You think Republicans would step up and do something?
DEMINGS: Well, you know what I have been you know, as a freshman member of Congress, I just have to admit you know, as a member of the Judiciary Committee and Homeland Security as you already mentioned, I think as a freshman member, one of the things that has disappointed me the most is the lack of action by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to hold the President and others accountable.
Look, as a former law enforcement officer, I clearly know the difference between right and wrong, the American people clearly know the difference between right and wrong. I think that's why they want our democracy to be upheld but I have been disappointed by those especially in leadership on the Republican side who have failed to take action that I think is very much needed during these unbelievable times.
CABRERA: Congresswoman Val Demings, thank you so much for joining us Congressman, great to have you with us, I really appreciate it.
DEMINGS: Thank you.
CABRERA: A pair of immunity deals and a guilty plea from people in President Trump's inner circle and now a new report alleging one of those speaking to prosecutors has a safe filled with documents that could be damaging to the President. So how legally exposed is he, we'll discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CABRERA: President Trump lashing out with a chilling warning for the FBI accusing the agency of ignoring tens of thousands of Hillary Clinton emails. The President tweeting, "at some point, I may have to get involved." Now President Trump's warning to the FBI comes less than an hour after his latest Twitter insults launched at Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
The President accelerating his attacks and reeling from a legal triple whammy, long-time fixer Michael Cohen implicating Trump in a crime, plus immunity deals for Trump's money man Alan Weisselberg and tabloid boss, David Pecker. Joining us now, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Page Pate.
Trump's warning Page to the FBI threatening Presidential involvement, could he do that legally? What would that look like?
PAGE PATE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Ana, no one really knows what it would look like but it's incredibly dangerous for him to even be talking about that now as the Chief Executive Officer, he is in charge of the Justice Department he can remove Jeff Sessions as he's threatened to do, he could restructure that department basically however he wants to do it.
But by doing that to stop an investigation or to stop what Bob Mueller is doing in connection with his probe, that could be further obstruction of that investigation and so it's a very, very dangerous path, he's going down.
CABRERA: Between Michael Cohen's guilty plea and the immunity deals for Allen Weisselberg and David Pecker, which of those do you think should worry the President, the most?
PATE: I think the most recent immunity deal that we found out about from Weisselberg and Pecker, I think that's potentially the most damaging to the President because while they initially focused only on Michael Cohen's case because that's the case that was in front of them.
I think the potential, the information that they would have about Trump as a businessman, Trump as a private citizen and all of the financial movements of money back and forth, not just to pay off people who may have stories that are adverse to Trump but also what they're doing with the money, both now and before he became President.
So if they expand that immunity deal, if they get them talking about these other issues that could potentially be very damaging for the President.
CABRERA: So are you saying even if this immunity deal specifically was to help investigators in the Cohen case, they could have gotten information that may pertain to other cases as well?
PATE: Ana, what they try to do in the Department of Justice is only give immunity to people for a very limited purpose to cover that particular investigation. I mean, they're not handing out you know get-out-of-jail-free cards, they were focused on Michael Cohen so they needed testimony related specifically to those potential campaign finance violations.
But now that these folks are talking to the Department of Justice, to the government, it is very easy for Bob Mueller to obtain immunity deals to cover additional testimony, other topics, other areas of interest and if there is this safe full of evidence of more potential campaign finance violations, that's a lot to go through and it's very, very common for the Justice Department to give protection to people, who are basically witnesses when they're focused as far as the targets on other individuals and I think that's what can happen here.
CABRERA: The New York Times reported this week the Manhattan DA is considering pursuing charges against the Trump Organization and two senior executives. Would the U.S. Attorney's who gave this immunity deal apparently to Weisselberg for example, be sharing information with the Manhattan DA in a state case?
PATE: Ana, that's a great question. Many times, I will have a client who has information that may be relevant to both a federal and a state investigation and so my immunity deal may be with the federal government but as part of that deal, they agree that if they share the information with the state, we get the same sort of protection so it's not at all uncommon for the state and the federal folks to work together if their investigations say, overlap in some particular area.
So that is probably what's going on here and it's basically the President fighting so many different fronts in this legal battle that I just don't know how far it's going to go and which particular battle maybe become - may become the most dangerous and when.
CABRERA: We will wait, we will see, Page Pate, thank you so much.
PATE: Thank you Ana.
CABRERA: Tonight we're getting heart-breaking video, it appears to show the effects of the Trump administration's family separation policy, we'll bring it to you next, stay with us.
CABRERA: We have seen the heartache of families separated at the border by the Trump administration's zero tolerance policy. What we're about to show you is video of an immigrant family being reunited after being apart for months. What should be a happy moment turns to heartbreak. The American Civil Liberties Union released this video.
CNN has not been able to independently verify the story but the pictures speak volumes, a three-year-old does not seem to recognize his own mother after being separated from her for four months. Warning, hard to watch.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My son has been traumatized.
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CABRERA: Roughly 700 children still have not been reunited with their families since being separated at the border by the Trump administration. This is according to a weekly status report from the government itself.
When gruesome details of the death of 19-year old Penn State University sophomore, Timothy Piazza became public, College Greek Life and the country's fraternity system came under intense scrutiny.
A wide-ranging investigation examining hours of video, text messages between fraternity brothers and eyewitness testimony led to one of the largest criminal indictments against a fraternity and its members in history.
And now more than two dozen young men face criminal charges. My colleague Alisyn Camarota has an in-depth look at what happened to Piazza inside the walls of the Beta Theta Pi House and the alleged cover-up that ensued.
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ALISYN CAMAROTA, CNN REPORTER: Can you just describe what the gauntlet is?
KORDEL DAVIS, FORMER BETA THETA PI BROTHER: You basically just run through the house and there's like stations of alcohol and you're supposed to drink as fast as you can, and people are yelling at you -
CAMAROTA: Encouraging you to drink--
DAVIS: Encouraging you to drink as fast as you can.
CAMAROTA: It begins with a handle of vodka. The brothers are made to stand in a line and pass it between each other until it's empty. Next, the pledges run through stations, manned by the brothers. Shotgun a beer, run upstairs, chug from a wine bag, then back downstairs for beer pong.
SARAH GANIM, CNN CORRESPODENT: In a house that's supposed to be alcohol-free, Tim Piazza goes from zero to 18 drinks in 82 minutes. His blood alcohol was nearly 5 times the legal limit to drive in Pennsylvania.
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CABRERA: I had a chance to speak to Alisyn about her special. Listen.
Alison, what happened to Timothy Piazza is stunning. But then what happened afterward, I mean, that is truly disturbing.
CAMAROTA: It is chilling and it's unconscionable and it may be criminal, because what happened was there were all of these brothers, Beta brothers, who saw him and saw him in real distress and they didn't do anything. In fact, they prevented him from getting help, they didn't call 911, they didn't get him medical help.
The best that they did was try to keep him - and his body turned over so that he wouldn't choke on his own vomit.
CABRERA: Now, on Friday, a Pennsylvania judge threw out the most serious charges against Piazza's fraternity brothers, including involuntary manslaughter. 25 former Beta brothers are still facing charges, ranging from hazing to unlawful acts related to liquor.
CNN's Special Report, a deadly haze inside the fraternity crisis, starts right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following is a CNN Special Report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inhumane, cruel, words used to describe his last hours alive.
CAMAROTA: There is videotape of that night almost start to finish. What you realize -