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Pope Francis Celebrates Mass In Dublin's Phoenix Park; Remembering The Life & Legacy Of The Maverick U.S. Senator; British Iranian Woman Sent Back To Jail After 3 Day Release. Aired 11-12p
Aired August 26, 2018 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00] BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Bianca Nobilo in London. Pope Francis is wrapping
up a visit that saw him come face to face with the Catholic Church's legacy of abuse in Ireland. He is currently celebrating Mass in Ireland's Phoenix
Park. Before the ceremony, he made remarks calling for forgiveness for abuses in Ireland. Many Irish people have been protesting and holding
vigils for victims of systemic sexual abuse by Catholic priests as well as for mothers and babies who died under the supposed care of the Catholic
For more let's get to our Phil black who's in Phoenix Park right now where the Pope Sunday Mass is taking place. And Phil before or right the
beginning of the mass we heard some unexpected words from the Pope. Take us through what he said and also what the reaction has been where you are
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So what we heard from the Pope when he first started speaking to this big crowd of hundreds of thousands of people
who come out on this wet, blustery, cold day to hear the head of the Catholic Church was a very fulsome plea for forgiveness specifically for
sexual abuse at the hands of the clergy, for the church, and particularly its role in how it responded to those incidents of sexual abuse. What he
talked about there were was playing for forgiveness for those who knew about what was going on and you didn't do enough to stop it.
And he also went into other examples of the institutional abuse that took place in this country through a dark time where the Catholic Church's
influence here was so great. He specifically referenced unwed mothers who were forced to give up their children, the children they gave birth to.
Now, this is a big issue here because some of the victims that he met with yesterday were people who experienced this sort of institutional abuse and
they made the point that some 100,000 women were forced to give up their children for adoption in this way. And more than that they were then told
by the church it is a mortal sin to try and be reunited with them, to try and find them.
Now those victims who met with the Pope yesterday, they said can you please tell Ireland, can you please tell all of these women out there that it is
not a mortal sin. And today the Pope has responded to that. He did precisely that telling everyone that it is not a sin to want to see your
own natural children again once you've been forcefully separated from them in this way. So it was a very fulsome way of forgiveness. He was
extraordinarily contrite but the point has to be made that for all the apologies that the eloquence, for some heartfelt apologies that his made it
goes into that same box.
And what people in Ireland in particular victims of sexual abuse and institutional abuse here really wanted to hear from him over the course of
this trip was more than that. Concrete plans which outline a very transparent method of accountability not just for those who have used with
those who protected abusers and they want the church to adopt very strict child protection measures including, for example, compulsory reporting to
local authorities whenever there is an instance of suspected abuse by a member of the clergy.
Now, he hasn't doesn't that, he hasn't outlined any of that. And so victims will tell you that for all the eloquence and the sincerity of his
words and they do believe his good intentions until the church expands its response to include the sort of very practical measures, they will
ultimately be very dissatisfied. That said the Pope's comments, his pleas for forgiveness today were welcomed with light with applause by this crowd
here in Phoenix Park but it's also worth pointing out that this crowd in Phoenix Park although hundreds of thousands strong, there's also a very
powerful representation of the degree to which the church's influence and popularity has diminished in this country.
That's because there's a logical reference point that was four decades ago when the last time the Pope celebrated mass in this very Park, that was
Pope John Paul II. And back then the crowds were -- well, so much greater so much more enthusiastic and. It was during that visit when more than
half the country's population turned out to see him in various locations just like this.
So we have seen and for all the enthusiasm here today by these people turning out on this wet, cold day, it's still a marker if you like. The
crowds are still so much thinner that they would have been just decades ago. All of this a response very much to the scandals in the dark history
of the church in this country. And for all the Pope's efforts here today there are still people here who feel very strongly about this and will tell
you very clearly the church needs to do more.
[11:05:22] NOBILO: Until you reference the last time a pope visited Ireland, John Paul the second back in 1979 where half the country almost
turned out. And the difference between then and now much talk has been made of the seismic social changes that have happened in those years. In
your opinion how fragile is the relationship at the moment between the church and the people of Ireland and do you think that it can come back
BLACK: What you will never be as absolutely influential and indeed powerful as it once was. There was a time just decades ago when the church
impacted every level of Irish society when the Irish Constitution was written in such a way to reflect church teachings. When the church
interrupted and was felt in every people, every person's lives at every moment of their day almost to that degree.
And so you know, what we've seen since then is one hand the marks of secularization which is felt across Western Europe but then in addition to
that, in a very powerful real way here, the revelations of sexual abuse and institutional abuse that very dark behavior by the church and religious
people here that has enormously eroded, the moral authority of the church to the point where people, many people are simply no longer prepared to
take their moral cues from the Catholic Church anymore.
And we've seen that represented in very dramatic ways like the recent referendum here which allows now abortion in some circumstances, much more
freely. Go back a couple of years and you had another referendum which allowed gay marriage. This is a very different Ireland to the one which
Pope John Paul II visited in 1979. We heard when the Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar welcomed Pope Francis here yesterday in a very clear -- and
what's being interpreted here is a very strong speech, he outlines the great social change that has taken place here.
He also talked about forming a new relationship between church and state essentially acknowledging that it can never go back to the way that it was
and also acknowledging that in many ways the church is still pretty influential here. Many church -- many schools still follow church driven
curriculums, many hospitals here still have a pretty strong influence from the church as well and there is a pretty strong movement in this country to
now try and remove the church once and for all from those aspects of what should be responsibilities that in most countries are handled by the state,
a more normalized -- the greater normalization if you like as Ireland has steadily moved towards embracing the more classical liberal democratic
model that now exists across Western Europe.
So what we're all talking about is the fact that no, the church can never be as influential here as it once was. The key question is what will its
future relationship be like? Can it regain some of the trust that it has lost through the revelations of all that very dark, that very dark period
the cruelty and the suffering that has been felt by so many people here? And despite the Pope's efforts here through words alone overwhelmingly the
belief here in Ireland is that from these words and again this is from the Prime Minister yesterday, they must now come actions as well.
NOBILO: Phil Black in Phoenix Park where the Pope is delivering his mass, thank you. We'll check in with you again later. Well, it was the
revelation of decades of abuse in the U.S. State of Pennsylvania that brought the issue into the spotlight once again. The grand jury report
came out a little more than a week ago and it held years of sexual abuses by priests and cover-ups by bishops.
It says more than a thousand children were abused at the hands of what the report calls predator priests. Peter Isely is an abuse survivor and
spokesperson for the group Ending Clergy Abuse. He joins me now on the phone from Dublin. Peter, thank you very much for joining the program.
PETER ISELY, SPOKESPERSON, ENDING CLERGY ABUSE: Thank you.
NOBILO: I'd love -- I'd love to know from you what you were hoping for to hear from Pope Francis today and indeed across his visit in Ireland and
whether or not what he's done so far has met your expectations.
ISELY: Well, I mean we've heard something we've heard many times which is good which is he wants the sexual abuse of children and the cover-up of
those crimes by bishops to stop. But what we really needed to hear was how he's going to stop it and he hasn't done that at all. In fact, the
indications are that he feels he's done everything he can do. He has everything in place right now and that's demonstrably not true. So we need
to know how. You know, what's the plan to do this?
[11:10:30] NOBILO: And Peter, why do you think there is a reticence to take this practical action?
ISELY: Well, you know, if you see what's kind of happening now in the hierarchy, there's always two factions in the hierarchy. There's a there's
a conservative sort of traditionalist faction and there's a liberal sort of moderate faction which Francis belongs to. A lot of the background what's
going on here is the battle between these two factions for power.
One of the things that we know for sure is that liberal bishops cover up for child sex crimes and have and conservative bishops cover up for child
sex crimes and have. But often the most important issue is which side you're on. And so many of them have covered up for crimes that it's simply
going to have to undo and unseat this division that seems to define everything that they do are the practical steps he needs to take are not
mysterious. They're not mysterious at all.
He needs to have zero tolerance for any priests that have sexually assaulted a child if it's been proven and demonstrated that they've done
that. And by the way this is what all responsible occupations do. It's not mysterious. You take their license away from them you let people know
who they are. They can never practice again. But that's not the way it is in the Catholic Church. There's that there's a limited example in their
law in the United States but it's just for the United States.
So they have to make it, he has to make it and he could do this with one stroke of the pen. He has to make it illegal under church law to sexually
assault a child and to be able to remain a priest because right now that's not the case. Under their law you can abuse and sexually assault a child
as a priest or a clergy person or religious order person and depending on your bishop you can remain working with children and families in that
diocese. You can be moved to another parish. And that's happening continuing around the world and it's particularly happening in Latin
America where it's now being exposed but it's really happening in Africa.
So this is what this system that we're talking about that has been uncovered for the last 20 years, fist in the United States, then in Europe,
and in Australia, and now in Latin America, that's moving inevitably to where it's the worst problem which is in Africa. So that's number one.
That -- it has to be their law. They have to change their law. And if they don't change it, they're going to continue to invite intervention by
governments and law enforcement officials into what they're doing which they should have been doing anyway investigating and examining this.
And secondly, there has to be zero tolerance in their law for any bishop or cardinal where it has been proven, where the evidence proves as in the case
in Pennsylvania with a couple of bishops that they covered up for child sex crimes and they're no longer going to be a bishop, they're going to be
removed from office. And so those two things alone which could be done almost immediately would be the only thing and should have been done a long
time ago that could possibly turn the corner on this crisis. Until he does that it's just going to get worse and worse.
NOBILO: Peter Isely from Ending Clergy Abuse, thank you so much for taking the time to explain how global and institutionalized this problem is. We
appreciate it, thank you. We're going to take a quick break now and we'll be right back with more news.
[11:15:00] NOBILO: You're watching CNN and this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Bianca Nobilo. Welcome back. It's a somber day in Washington as the U.S.
remembers a political giant who always put country first. Senator John McCain passed away Saturday after a hard-fought battle with brain cancer.
He was surrounded by his family at his beloved home near Sedona, Arizona.
Before entering politics, McCain serves as a U.S. Navy Aviator. He survived being shot down over North Vietnam and endured more than five
years as a prisoner of war. The flag over the White House is flying at half-staff today honoring the man who spent nearly 40 years representing
the State of Arizona first as a Member of the House of Representatives and then as the Senator. Our Ryan Nobles has more on John McCain's long
history in American politics.
RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: He was a war hero always at the ready for a good political fight, a statesman with a reputation for siding
with his conscience, Senator John McCain with a life of duty and service.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There's nothing held within serving a cause greater than yourself interest.
NOBLES: Born to two generations of Admiral's, McCain graduated from the Naval Academy later trained as a pilot. At age 30 he saw his first combat
during the Vietnam War. On his 23rd mission in 1967, a missile hit his plane. He ejected, was captured and spent more than five years as a
prisoner of war. The bonds he formed with the other prisoners he said changed his life.
MCCAIN: Well, the camaraderie, the friendship, the love that we had for each other was still the most remarkable experience of my life.
NOBLES: In 1973, McCain returned home physically disabled, hailed as a war hero. Upon retiring from the Navy in 1981, he relocated to Arizona with
his second wife Cindy. A year later he was elected to the United States House of Representatives where he served for two terms. In 1986 McCain won
a seat in the U.S. Senate and held it for more than three decades.
MCCAIN: The thing I liked about the Senate, if there's an issue up before this -- on the floor of the Senate, I can go down and talk, I can go down
and propose an amendment, I can go down and you know, sometimes I can go down and make a fool of myself.
NOBLES: As a lawmaker, McCain remains close to military causes. He took aim at pork-barrel spending and worked with Democrats on health care
reform. At times his willingness to buck the will of his own party earned him a maverick reputation.
MCCAIN: Be strong, have courage and fight.
NOBLES: In 1999 he announced he was running for president but ultimately endorsed George W Bush. In 2008 he earned the Republican Party's
presidential nomination. His straight talk express bus became an emblem for his campaign as it crisscrossed the country selling voters on tax cuts,
national security, immigration reform, and health care deregulation. But he lost the race to Senate colleague Barack Obama. Then came a Trump
McCain surfaced as one of Trumps most outspoken critics and part of the so- called fearless five GOP Senators who defied the president during his first year. But at a time of great political turmoil, McCain had to face his own
upheaval. In 2017 he was diagnosed with brain cancer. After surgery, he returned to the Senate for a critical vote. His parties push to repeal
ObamaCare. McCain's Maverick reputation on vivid display as he derailed Republican efforts with a defiant thumbs down, a dramatic last chapter for
a man finally free, he said, to vote without reservation.
[11:20:36] MCCAIN: Our reputations, our character are the only things we leave behind when we depart this earth.
NOBLES: John McCain, a naval aviator and senator who embraced his destiny and led a life of national service.
NOBILO: McCain's fellow Arizona Senator Jeff Flake spoke about his friend and colleagues on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: Seeing the good in your opponents, that you know, the fact that George W. Bush will be speaking at his funeral where he
was asked to, the person that defeated him also Barack Obama. That says all we need to know about John McCain that his opponents love, admire and
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: We're now learning about the funeral arrangements for the long- time Senator nicknamed the Maverick. Our Stephanie Elam has more from outside the McCain home in Arizona.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're learning that Senator John McCain was very involved in planning out his memorials. We know that he will
start here in Arizona and then he will lie in state at the U.S. Capitol. There will also be a service for him but the cathedral before he then moves
to Annapolis. We learned that when he passed away he was surrounded by his family here at the beloved ranch.
And just to give you an idea of how the family is doing, there is a beautiful statement that his daughter Meghan McCain put out and I just want
to read it to you now because it is so poignant. She wrote, "My father United States Senator John Sidney McCain III departed this life today. I
was with my father at his end as he was with me at my beginning. In the 33 years we shared together he raised me, taught me, corrected me, comforted
me, encouraged me, and supported me in all things. He loved me and I loved him. He taught me how to live. His love and his care ever-present always
unfailing took me from a girl to a woman and he showed me what it is to be a man. All that I am is thanks to him. Now that he has gone, the task of
my lifetime is to live up to his example, his expectations and his love.
My father's passing comes with sorrow and grief for me for my mother, for my brothers, and for my sisters. He was a great fire who burned bright and
we lived in his light and warmth for so very long. We know that his flame lives on in each of us. The days and years to come will not be the same
without my dad but they will be good days filled with life and love because of the example he lived for us. Your prayers for his soul and for our
family are sincerely appreciated. My father is gone and I miss him as only an adoring daughter can. But in this loss and in this sorrow I take
comfort in this: John McCain hero of the Republic and to his little girl wakes today to something more glorious than anything on this earth.
Today the warrior interest is true and eternal life greeted by those who have gone before him rising to meet the author of all things. The dream
has ended. This is the morning." Beautiful words from Megan McCain. And as news to spread here in Sedona we have seen people coming dropping off
flowers. We also saw one couple come and place a flag outside of the dirt road that leads up to the cabin here. And also worth noting too that there
is a man who came with a very large Trump sign on his truck but he came and he brought out a large sign that he placed here that says thank you for
your service to Senator McCain as well.
So outpouring of support for a man who ran and won six times as a U.S. senator from the State of Arizona and at this point we know that the family
has left and that everyone has proceeded to Phoenix as the memorials will continue for the Senator. Stephanie Elam, CNN Sedona, Arizona.
NOBILO: Condolences have been pouring in not only from the U.S. but from all over the world. CNN's Nic Robertson joins me with more on that from
here in London. And Nic, it truly has been a global outpouring everywhere from South Korea, to Lithuania, Australia, and of course the U.K. What can
you tell us about who has said what and what that tells us about the legacy that McCain leaves?
[11:25:05] NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: McCain spent so many years traveling the world advocating for the U.S. interest
and then going back to the United States and picking up -- picking up some of the issues it heard in capitals around the world, bringing it back to
the United States trying to help some of those countries. We've heard from the prime minister of Kosovo today, we've heard from the president of
Kosovo today, we've heard from the president of Afghanistan saying that McCain was a friend of the country and that had tried to rebuild the
We've heard from all the Baltic States who were very keen on the fact that Senator McCain was a champion of reminding everyone what sort of leader
Vladimir Putin and Russia really is, and cautioning President Trump against his sort of close relationship he's building there, something that was a
concern to those Baltic States. We've heard from the Lithuanians, the Latvians, the Estonians, we've heard from the Slovaks as well. But I think
perhaps some of the comments that we've heard have given us an indication that while these are tributes for Senator McCain, they're also veiled shots
at President Trump as well.
And I read for you a tweet from the German Foreign Minister, and explain what I mean from that. Here we go. John McCain was a convinced advocate
of a strong and reliable transatlantic partnership, especially in difficult times. He believed in our shared values and principles. We will always
remember his voice.
Now, of course, Germany has been at logger's heads with President Trump over NATO, over the very nature of that Transatlantic Alliance. Of course,
when a politician chooses certain words to remember another politician, it's by no coincidence that he's really picking on things that he wants to
pay tribute to Senator McCain about, there's no doubt about that. But also it does seems to be a shot at President Trump. And I think we also heard
that in the words from Prime Minister Theresa May today who said, you know, "He embodied -- Senator McCain, embodied the idea of service over self. It
was an honor to call him a friend to the U.K.
So these tributes in some way double -- sort of slightly double-sided if you will, they're tributes for McCain but also reminders of what many world
leaders today, particularly allies of the United States find concerning about President Trump. Bianca?
NOBILO: Thank you, Nic. That's such a good point indeed. I think McCain's bipartisanship puts the combative nature of the moment into a stop
really. Thank you very much for going through all the responses there for us. Well, you can learn more about the life and legacy of Senator John
McCain on CNN.com. Find out why this war hero turned Senator was a politician unlike any other. It's all on CNN.com. We're going to take a
quick break now and we'll be right back in a few minutes.
[11:31:37] NOBILO: You're watching CNN, and this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Bianca Nobilo. Welcome back.
More now, on our top story this hour. Pope Francis, unexpectedly addressing the Catholic Church abuse scandals head on a short time ago. He
began his remarks at a mass in Ireland by speaking of his meetings with victims and asking forgiveness for all those who carried out the abuses
He then called out church leaders for keeping the abuses quiet and pledge to work for justice. The pontiff also addressing the mother and baby homes
operated in Ireland, saying it was not a mortal sin for mothers to seek out children they were forcibly separated from.
CNN Religion Commentator Father Edward Beck joins me now from Los Angeles. Thank you very much for being with us today.
Father Beck, there were a number of protests marking the pope's visit this day. And it was a central scene in Dublin today, which we might be able to
get some pictures of, perhaps not. One of a number of actions aimed at drawing attention to the victims of clerical abuse in the midst of the pope
delivering his mass.
Do you think the church will ever recover from the level of anger that is felt there?
FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Well, I think recovery there will be long and slow, as it should be. The crimes and the sinfulness have
been egregious. I thought it was interesting, Bianca, that the pope chose the penitential right at the beginning of his mass to make this apology.
So, that is the part of the mass where you confess your sins, you ask for forgiveness. But then, part of the penitential right is you also commit to
not committing the same sins again, to not repeating the same failure.
And while these are more than sins we are talking about, they're also crimes. I thought it was the perfect place for the pope to address it.
And now, the next part is, how will we make sure this does not happen again. What is the transparency that people can see that this true
repentance is now going to be followed through upon?
NOBILO: Thank you, and it's interesting about the significance of the penitential right that you mentioned. Now, the pope has made the point
several times today to speak of forgiveness. Let's just take a listen first to him speaking at a shrine in the west of Ireland before he arrived
in Dublin for the mass.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE FRANCIS, SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE (through translator): None of us can fail to be moved by the stories of young people who suffered
abuse, who robbed of their innocence, separated from their mothers, and left scarred by painful memories.
This open wound challenges us to be firm and decisive in the pursuit of truth and justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Father Beck, these are strong and emotive words. But something we've heard often from survivors in the church community in Ireland is that
they seek decisiveness in response for these crimes in some form of action.
So, are you seeing Pope Francis do anything different in that regard? Are you sensing progress towards justice?
BECK: Well, certainly in the United States, we have seen that since 2002 with the Dallas charter, which demands automatic reporting to legal
authorities and automatic removal of any priest suspected of sexual abuse.
However, as you know, this is a world-wide church, and civil law differs from country to country. And I don't think yet on a global scale the
remedy has really then enforced. Because it's been dealt with internally, according to canonical law. And yet, canon law doesn't have what is needed
yet for zero-tolerance.
So, many are calling for church law itself needs to change, so that it can be universally applied, no matter what the country, no matter what the
So, I think in places like Latin America and Africa, where we still have not gotten into great detail about this crisis, more will yet unfold. So,
the Vatican needs to deal with it as a centralized body. But in a transparent way, that says we cannot do this alone. We must do this in
concert with countries throughout the world, but in a unified way, with transparency.
And I think, to say that it's just internal and we have the systems set to go. But people not know what they are, or what is the accountability to
open all that up and make it much clearer for people?
[11:36:18] NOBILO: Does the Vatican work with civil authorities and governments in countries where this is known to be an issue and there's a
current scandal? For example, Latin America, Ireland, other countries.
Is there a concerted action between the Vatican and the government or is that not happening enough, do you think?
BECK: Well, the action with the Vatican would be with the local bishop of that diocese. So, the bishop is charged with the dealing with any
accusations in his diocese and making sure in most countries still, that they are reported to authorities.
So, the Vatican would not intercede necessarily in a specific case in someone's diocese -- a Bishop's diocese. Unless there were reports it
wasn't being handled well. Which is part of the critique for bishops who have not dealt with this well, or who have been accused to covering it up?
Has the Vatican been forceful enough with them to say, "We're going to remove you for not having acted in an expeditious way or we're going to
investigate if it's true that you haven't." And not say well, the bishop was supposed to do it, but the Vatican then take responsibility for what
the bishops did not perhaps do.
NOBILO: Do you think of this that the scandal has impacted the reverence for Pope Francis and his relationship with churchgoers in Ireland and other
countries? Or do you think that his popularity and his ability to connect with followers remains strong?
BECK: I think that he is still popular with people. I think people see a really good man committed to justice. But remember, we're talking about an
81-year-old prelate and Pope. And in some ways, I think people look at him and they say, well, how much can he really do? He must empower the laity.
He must empower boards to assist him in this.
So, I think people think his intentions are good, people have respect for him. I just don't think that they feel as the one man fighting such a
system can do it alone without a lot of collaboration and a lot of empowerment, especially, of the laity to help them to do that.
NOBILO: Farther Beck in Los Angeles, thank you for giving us the internal perspective there. Appreciate it.
Earlier, CNN was talking with Colm O'Gorman, he was a child victim of clerical sexual abuse. He's now the executive director of Amnesty
International Island and speaking before the Pope's homily in Dublin, he said the Pope's words on this trip are still not enough in his opinion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLM O'GORMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL IRELAND: What I saw is Pope Francis talk about crimes of others, and I saw him talk about
the rape and abuse of children by priests, failings of bishops and other church leaders and but at no point that he acknowledged the role of the
So, I learned as a very small child for my parents for my forbearers, for my society, and actually of time from what was my church. And if I wanted
to apologize to anybody, if I wanted to see forgiveness, the first thing I had to do was on my own actions.
And in this case, what the Pope needs to do was on the actions of his institution, he's a Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church and the
absolute monarch of the Vatican City State, resolutely refuses to acknowledge any responsibility above the level of bishop.
He says for instance, in his letter yesterday, a failure of -- in his notes in his comments yesterday. "The failure of ecclesiastic authorities,
bishops, religious superiors, priests, and others," he doesn't name the others. "And adequately to address these repellant crimes as given --
rightly given rise to outrage and remains a source of pain and shame for the Catholic community. I myself care those sentiment."
Now, had he gone on to say, "And just Pope by acknowledge that the Vatican itself is responsible for these failures because it directed this cover-up?
We'll fully undeliberately to protect the institution, its power, money, and its position. And we need to own that corruption for it is ever
How could be a profound statement? It would also be evidence, proven proof. So, we either lie willfully -- you know, absolutely explicitly, or
we lie by omission?
Francis is getting very, very close to lying by omission. Last night, he met finally, because the Vatican was resisting the idea that this would
even happen, with a group of people that had been abused within church.
And he used the Spanish word, Kaka, to describe those who would cover up abuse. And today, we hear a former papal ambassador accusing him of just
that. And calling on him and a whole range of a -- of cardinals to resign. So, I mean, the problem is what we need is telling the truth.
[11:41:01] CYRIL VANIER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: All right.
O'GORMAN: And if it's a radical idea to ask the pope, to tell the truth, I think that clearly, revealing it into the top.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: We're going to take a quick break now. We'll be right back.
NOBILO: You're watching CNN and this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Bianca Nobilo. Welcome back. Americans and lawmakers across the political
spectrum are remembering John McCain as a man of principal and honor.
McCain's family says he died surrounded by those he loved in a place he loved. His adopted home State of Arizona. The U.S. Senator stopped his
treatment for brain cancer just a few days ago. Despite his condition, he spent the last few months the same as ever, speaking up and fighting for
what he believed was right. Sometimes going against his own Republican Party.
McCain reflected on his life in a memoir published this year. Writing simply, "It's been quite a ride." John McCain twice ran for president but
lost both times. First, to George W. Bush. Then later, to Barack Obama.
McCain, says he learned a lot about himself from that experience. He spoke about losing the presidency with our Gloria Borger back in 2014.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Does the ambition ever go away?
MCCAIN: I've had that ambition, but I also had a lot of people who came to me and said, we thank you ought to run and we'd like to help you. And
that, of course, kind of reinforces the whole -- the whole situation.
After I lost in 2000 and we conceded immediately, Cindy and I went to Tahiti. Yes, Tahiti is probably one of the most ideal places on earth.
I was almost crazy because you just can't go full stop. Yes, I was -- at the hotel, we are staying at, they would come out with a little one-page
sheet of paper about the latest news of the day. I found myself hanging around the desk waiting for it to come in. I'm not kidding. It was --
[11:45:19] BORGER: It's like detox.
MCCAIN: Yes, it was -- it was just -- you know, for cold turkey. So, in 2008 when I lost, I went right back to work. And that's was the beauty to
me of having the ability to continue to be involved. I went right back to work, and I stayed in the game, and I stayed run for -- planned for running
And then, I was able to cope with it much more easily than if I had had nothing else to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: McCain led a life that's become an iconic American journey. A life now being remembered by countless other people, all witness to his
Former U.S. President George W. Bush, remembering McCain, saying, "Some lives are so vivid, it's difficult to imagine them ended. Some voices are
so vibrant, it's hard to think of them still. John McCain was a man of deep conviction and a patriot of the highest order. He was a public
servant in the finest traditions of our country. And to me, he was a friend whom I'll deeply miss."
For more on John McCain's legacy, let's bring in CNN Political Analyst Julian Zelizer in New York. He's a professor and historian at Princeton
University. Julian, it is great to speak with you.
JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks for having me.
NOBILO: For somebody -- of course, for somebody like John McCain, whose record is so expansive and impressive, what do you think will be the
defining features of this man's legacy?
ZELIZER: Well, the first is simply his contributions to the country, both as part of the military and as a legislature of legislature. Someone who
really love Congress, who believed in what the institution could do. And often expressed his frustration when his colleagues weren't doing their
And second, he was part of the Reagan revolution. He was part of the conservative movement that reshaped American politics since the 1980s, and
he was a loyal foot soldier for that cause. At the same time, there were moments he'll be remembered as a maverick.
As someone who defied his own party, as someone who spoke what was on his mind regardless of the cost, and as someone as you have discussed, who
could be very open with the press about what he thought what was going on in Washington.
NOBILO: And, Julian, the U.S. President, Donald Trump, and John McCain, they never shied away from criticizing each other. And after his death,
the American president tweeting, "My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with
We've learned that McCain didn't want Trump to attend his funeral. Does that -- does that surprise you?
ZELIZER: No. I did -- the relationship was incredibly tense, it played out on the public stage. Senator McCain was really -- you know victimized
by the president's ongoing insults about him, even about him being held captive in Vietnam.
And I think, it reached a point of tension where in some ways, this is logical or predictable, even though it's a pretty bold statement. Part of
his legacy, though, will also be the 2008 campaign where his selection of Sarah Palin, opened the doors to some of the political world that Senator
McCain really didn't like.
So, there's a complexity about his relationship to Trump that goes beyond like him or don't like him.
NOBILO: Indeed. And for those of -- those people, those world leaders that know McCain much better than President Trump, the tributes have been
touchingly personal to what have we learned about McCain as a man, as well as a great statesman in the outpouring of the last few hours?
ZELIZER: People liked him a lot. Even though he had a famous temper, people liked working with him. They even liked working with him if they
were on different sides of an issue. And this includes members of Congress but it also includes world leaders who saw him as a very serious voice in
the United States about what the relationship of the U.S. to the world should be.
And in the final months of his life, he became a symbol, in many ways, within the United States, of an ongoing commitment to international
alliances and relationships at a time when they were becoming more strained as a result of the presidency.
So, I think that's part of the outpouring that you're seeing. And it's also simply about a person that many enjoyed working with, including the
most powerful world leaders.
[11:50:02] NOBILO: Julian Zelizer in New York. Thank you.
ZELIZER: Thank you.
NOBILO: We're going to take a quick break now. We'll be right back.
NOBILO: You're watching CNN, and this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Bianca Nobilo, filling in for Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now to Iran, and a story we've been across for quite a while. A British Iranian woman, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, is now back in an Iranian prison
after a three-day released. The stint had raised her family's hopes that she could be freed unconditionally. She was arrested in 2016 on charges of
spying against the regime, charges she denies totally.
So, we're joined by CNN's Nic Robertson, and we're going to go to him for the story because he's been following it since the very beginning. Nic,
please can you get us up to speed here and explain what's happened the last three days.
ROBERTSON: Sure, this was a furlough. She wasn't under house arrest, she was allowed to go to her father's house, provided he put down security that
she wouldn't skip bail if you will that she was forbidden from leaving the country, forbidden from visiting embassies -- the British embassy, in
particular, forbidden also from giving into news and journalist.
And the feedback the family say that she had during this three-day furlough had been positive that she hadn't done anything wrong.
And the expectation was there that this furlough would be extended. Now, her husband, Richard, was talking to CNN Hala Gorani and me on Thursday,
the day she was released. And at that time, he explained how a setback like what we're seeing today could be very detrimental for her -- for
Nazanin. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What state of mind is your wife in, though? How hopeful is she?
RICHARD RATCLIFFE, HUSBAND OF NAZANIN ZAGHARI-RATCLIFFE: Of course, she's been up and down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
RATCLIFFE: And I spoke to her yesterday, we didn't know any of this, and she was in a very miserable way. I want to think -- I think, obviously,
we'll get to a Saturday night, and if we haven't had any news that it's going to be extended and -- I mean, she won't be look forward to going back
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surely well.
RATCLIFFE: It's been a long hard journey for all of us, and with that comes many ups and downs. And you know, the potential (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: And today, very much seems to be one of those downs. I mean, that's well, we're hearing the families explain the sequence of events the
day that Nazanin was called in to go to the prosecutor's office in the morning, and told that she had been doing everything correctly that it
looked like that she would get her furlough extended.
That she was told a signature was required, but she was allowed to go back home while that -- well, pending that signature. She called on the way
home to say that everything seem to in trike.
Got home, later in the afternoon -- this afternoon, only to get a phone call 10 minutes later saying she needed to go back to the prosecutor's
office. There were still issues outstanding when she got back there. That's when it became clear that the signature hadn't been provided, that
she was going to have to go back to jail.
Although there was the tantalizing information provided by the prosecutor's office, according to the family. But even when she was back in jail after
a few days may be the signature would come through, maybe she could be released.
However, the British embassy has learned over things from Iran's foreign ministry according to the family. And the family seems to indicate that
their Justice Department is not going to be giving that signature.
So, she was described by her family today as shivering, shaking and crying. So, in the words of her husband, Richard, another down day.
[11:56:02] NOBILO: Nic Robertson, our chief International diplomatic editor. Thank you for the update.
I'm Bianca Nobilo and thank you for joining us for this special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD. We're leaving you now with live pictures of the pope's
mass in Phoenix Park in Dublin. See you again soon.