Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Canada's Foreign Minister To Meet For Trade Talks In Washington DC; If U.S.-Mexico Trade Pact Goes Through It Will Still Take Six Months For Congress To Vote On It; Senators Praise John McCain; State Of Missouri To Investigate Cleric Sex Abuse; Angry German Mob Chases Foreigners And Those Who Look Different; Two People Killed At Video Game Tournament; Macron: Europe Cannot Count On U.S. For Security; U.N. Accuses Myanmar's Military Chiefs Of Genocide; Facebook Bans Myanmar Military Chief, 19 Others; The Poorest In The U.K. Fear Impact Of Leaving E.U. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 27, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN London. I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, an unusual Oval Office conference
call broadcast to the world. Also, the Mexican president phoning into Donald from to announce a breakthrough in trade between the two countries.
We are live in Washington. We will bring you the latest.
Also coming up this hour, anti-immigrant protesters on the streets in Germany turned violent following the murder of a man they blamed on
immigrants.
And the pope wraps up his trip to Ireland as another investigation is launched into the clergy sex abuse claims in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania
may have been the tip of the iceberg.
The NAFTA as we know it is no more. That is the big news from the White House today. President Donald Trump announced he's quote, " terminating
the existing free trade deal between the U.S., Mexico and Canada and replacing it with a bilateral agreement with Mexico alone instead. It was
an unusual, it was a made for television moment. Trump talked on speakerphone to the Mexican president Enrique Pena Nieto after receiving
some technical assistance. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I like to call this deal the United States Mexico Trade Agreement. I think it's an elegant name. I
think NAFTA has a lot of bad connotations for the United States. Because it was a rip off, it was a deal that was a horrible deal for our country.
And I think it's got a lot of bad connotations to a lot of people, probably you and I will agree to the name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That doesn't necessarily mean Canada is left out in the cold. Canada's foreign minister is heading to Washington tomorrow, in fact, for a
new round of trade talks. Let's bring in our White House reporter Stephen Collinson. Let's talk a little bit first of all, I can't remember a
president doing this, putting a foreign leader on speakerphone and having somewhat of a notion broadcast for the world to hear.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It was classic Trump, Hala, first of all this kind of reality show, this kind of spectacle around this
announcement and the fact that the president seemed to be declaring this as a huge deal, something that is a complete abrogation of the NAFTA accord
between the United States, Mexico and Canada, which has been the foundation of trade ties in north America for 24 years. It does appear that Mexico
has made concessions on auto and labor standards, which could turn out to be significant.
But at the end of the day, it is not clear that the concessions the United States has secured will change the overall picture of the accord and change
what the president says has been a very bad deal for the United States. So, I think we have to wait a little and see. Is this real? Or is it
another one of these occasions as with -- sorry --
GORANI: In a way does the fundamentally matter? What's being telegraphed here, is that Trump the businessman, put Pena Nieto on speaker phone.
Hammered out a better deal for America on trade, and let's move on to Canada. It is the optics here for the White House, isn't it?
COLLINSON: That's exactly right. The president based his whole campaign on getting rid of NAFTA and changing it. I don't think Trump supporters
are going to mind too much about the fact that there weren't that many details. You're right, it's the optics, it's the fact that the president
is the deal maker, and although he says he's the world greatest deal maker, so far in his presidency, we haven't seen much substance in many of the
deals.
We had the North Korean negotiation which seemed like a huge deal at the time, and was presented as such by the president, but it turns out it
hasn't affected the fundamentals of the U.S. confrontation with North Korea very much at all. So especially heading into the midterm elections,
a few months away from the midterm elections, President Trump is under significant political pressure, along with the Republicans that could lose
the House, this is exactly the kind of thing that might convince Trump supporters to get out and vote and try to stave off some of those
Democratic wins that the Republicans fear.
GORANI: I want you get to quickly talk to me a little bit about the president's reaction to the death of Senator John McCain of Arizona. He
put out that tweet, of course, extending his sympathies to the family, didn't really honor him in any way, but he was asked several times today,
over and over again about John McCain, whether or not he believed he was a hero, and to react once again to his death. He declined to answer.
[15:05:00] COLLINSON: Right, several times he just folded his hands and ignored those questions posed by reporters in the Oval Office. I think
this shows that the feud between John McCain and the president is continuing even after the Arizona Senator's death. And it is a sign, I
think, that the president doesn't really see much -- most presidents accept that there's a ceremonial dutiful part of their job, in which they speak
for the nation, and Trump would be expected to sort of express the sentiments of a nation saying goodbye to a great statesman, that's not
happening.
He doesn't see any differences between his own interests and his own prejudices in the job and in the more ceremonial role of the presidency.
And that's very interesting. This is going to go ahead all week, and this is a week of memorials in Arizona and Washington for Senator McCain before
he's buried on Sunday. It's going to be very interesting on Saturday, the big service in Washington's National Cathedral for McCain, one of the
people giving the eulogy for McCain is going to be done by Barack Obama.
GORANI: Barack Obama and George W. Bush, eulogizing the Senator from Arizona. Thank you so much, Stephen Collinson. What was the president
saying in that deal? Not a lot of detail, let's try to understand exactly what was hashed out between the U.S. and Mexico. Paula Newton is live in
New York. How is it different from NAFTA then, this U.S.-Mexico trade deal as the president is calling it?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On two very important points, and basically Mexico has capitulated because of these labor standards and that
workers will need to make a certain amount of money, meaning $16 an hour on 40 percent to 45 percent of all the cars. That's one. So, you set a floor
for Mexican wages on part of the manufacturing.
And the auto content rule, you're not going to be able to take parts from all over the world and stick them into a Mexican assembly line and call it
an north American car. Not that that's what's going on, but the president wanted to make sure there was no loophole for this.
The other thing though that is key here is the fact of the sunset clause. Again, not a lot of detail there, Hala, but the big deal is that this was a
deal breaker for both Mexico and Canada, right, we're not going to revisit this every 5 years and just have it collapse if we don't have an agreement.
Apparently, the U.S. has given in and said we'll have a review every six years, but disagreement will be in place for well over a decade. Again,
though details that have still have not been spelled out.
GORANI: What impact will it have on trade? Because Trump obviously will spin it as a victory for the United States.
NEWTON: I think the rhetoric is really important here, I don't have to remind you that we're going into midterms here. He will spin this as a
victory, it is interesting though he was so willing to spend this as a victory even with Mexico and Pena Nieto as he explained they are on the
phone, but they did not talk about the wall. Remember, Mexico was always supposed to pay for that wall. And that is still an irritant for President
Trump. He also continually takes shots at Canada. And let's remember, a big controversy here with the fact that he wants to rename this. It does
not involve Canada right now, the foreign minister, as you said earlier is on her way to DC she will start negotiations tomorrow. The key thing is
that if he wants out of NAFTA, he actually has to tell Congress and that will take six months lead time.
GORANI: Paula Newton thanks very much, live in New York. Listening to President Trump today and reading his Twitter feed, you might not even know
the nation is in mourning for one of its political giants, considered in America widely to be an American hero, in fact. The White House flag is
already flying high again after being very temporarily lowered to half staff in honor of the Republican Senator John McCain. He died of brain
cancer on Saturday. Mr. Trump tweeted brief condolences but has not said one word of praise for his political opponent, despite being given the
chance repeatedly to do so today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, any thoughts on John McCain?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Praise for McCain is coming from all corners, including Vietnam, where he was of course held for years as a prisoner of war in terrible
circumstances. The Vietnamese foreign minister signed a book of condolences for McCain at the U.S. embassy in Hanoi. A fellow prisoner of
war who was McCain's cellmate described what he felt today when he heard of the Senator's passing.
[15:10:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FER, FELLOW PRISONER OF WAR WITH JOHN MCCAIN: It was like getting hit with a sledgehammer right in the knees because I knew then that the country
was going to be absent, an exceptional American, was patriotic, courageous, and dedicated to those principles that you find in our great documents
that's guided this country for so long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: McCain was known for being a political maverick, although he did vote with his party a vast, vast majority of the time. He did make friends
across the aisle as well, which seems so unusual these days of course. Both Republican and Democratic lawmakers are remembering their colleague
and friend today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE, (R), ARIZONA: I have admired him, like I said, my entire life and it's tough to imagine a Senate without him.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D), CONNECTICUT: He had a joy about politics, and a love for his country, that was unmatched.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R), MAINE: We will really be missing such an important voice for national unity.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: John's a man of significant intellect. Deep conviction and unmatched character.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Joe Biden there, let's get more reaction from Capitol Hill, Phil Mattingly joins me. Phil, I'm curious about one thing, obviously the
president kept his arms crossed defensively when he was asked again and again to say a kind word about John McCain. The president is a Republican.
How are Republican elected officials in Washington reacting to how the president of their party is behaving with regards to the passing of John
McCain? What do they tell you, even if off camera about what's going on? Because this is highly unusual.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To quote one senior Republican aide who I heard a little while ago I think it's more that this is not supposed to
be a moment about the president. This is not supposed to be a moment about the president's relationship with Senator McCain, this is supposed to be a
moment about Senator McCain. I think the frustration that I have heard and I was texting back and forth with a House Republican who said a little
while ago, it's not about him, it's not supposed to be about him, it's supposed to be honoring Senator McCain.
According to the sound you just played, there's no part affiliations next to the names, they're all Republicans, they're all Democrats. What Senator
McCain brought to the institution, what he brought to politics, what he brought to policy, is something that should be honored and revered and
people should take the time to pay attention to him. I think there's a level right now of distraction, even if that distraction is frankly the
leader of the free world.
GORANI: I mean, he is the embodiment of the politics of a by gone era.
MATTINGLY: I've been up here for 10, 11 years and you sort of see the lines of the Senate sort of go away. And we have moved into a new era of
politics, a new era for policy. People claim it's never as good as it was 10 or 20 years later. But there's an element that John McCain brought to
the Senate, and there was a speech attended by all of his colleagues, he was given a standing ovation. Which was while people can disagree on
politics, while people can have very different ideological beliefs.
Certainly, the House as well, and I think certainly the broader political atmosphere. Is anything going to change? Look, I don't think anybody is
going to say the answer to that is yes. But are people go to think a little bit more about the type of individual John McCain was when they go
forward with their politics in the weeks and months ahead. At least there's some hope that that might be the case. And at this point and the
divisive nature of things at this point, there is hope.
GORANI: His former campaign manager has made a statement, or a final statement there a couple of days after the death of the Senator, what did
he say?
[15:15:00] MATTINGLY: It was exactly, to be frank, what you would expect. It echoed the same themes as the book he just put out. There's a reference
by Sarah Palin that this was a moment to secure his legacy, a, but this is really a time that's really fractured, not just domestically but
internationally, the United States that Senator McCain believed the United States represented and we're not sure that everybody believes in the same
things Senator McCain believes.
But on top of it is the idealism and why it's supposed to be good for the world and a global international order is something that should be
cherished and something that should be fought for and something he did throughout the course of his life. And that's why he said repeatedly and
he said in his final statement, he wasn't necessarily happy to go, but he did what he set out to do.
GORANI: Internationally there was reaction because of so much of what Senator McCain stood for, shaped events, namely in the Middle East, his
opposition to torture, but also his support of the Iraq invasion that developed the way that it did and affected the region so deeply. We're
going to take a quick break, apologies and accusations, Pope Francis makes a plea for forgiveness as he comes under fire from a former archbishop. We
are live in Rome.
Next, is France giving up on the United States? We're live in Paris after some remarkable comments by the French president. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Pope Francis is back from his Ireland visit this weekend. During the visit, he apologized for the systemic abuse by the Catholic Church at a
mass attended by hundreds of thousands of faithful in Dublin's Phoenix Park. Now that apology came as a former Vatican official accused the Pope
of knowing about abuse allegations against this prominent cardinal and doing nothing.
Delia Gallagher traveled with the papal convoy through Ireland. In joins us now from Rome. What has been the reaction from the Vatican to these
very serious accusations that the Pope himself knew about abuse and did nothing about it?
[15:20:00] DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On the plane last night coming back from Ireland, we had a chance to ask the pope about those
allegations and he said that he had read them, but that he was not going to say a single word about it. He said study it yourselves, read it carefully
and you will see the letter speaks for itself. So, the pope not acknowledging or denying the accusations but refusing to engage in them.
And his supporters say he's right to do that, because they question the motive from this ex-envoy who is out to get Pope Francis, out to embarrass
him. But there are other details in there that could easily be denied if the pope wanted to do that. But for the moment, Hala, the pope is not
doing that.
GORANI: We covered this extensively, the results of the grand jury investigation into cleric abuse in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania. Now
the Attorney General of the U.S. state of Missouri is saying that his state too will look into allegations of sexual abuse.
Let's listen to Josh Hawley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH HAWLEY, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE U.S. STATE OF MISSOURI: We have asked each of the four dioceses, we have four here in the state of Missouri, we
have asked each of the four to open all of their books to us, all of their records. We want to
see everything that they have related to clerical abuse. We're going to be interviewing victim's families and were going to be speaking to members of
the public and we will do everything it takes to get a full, fair and thorough accounting of the facts. And then we will write a report. Lay
that bare to the public including making recommendations for prosecution if necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it, Josh Hawley, the attorney general of Missouri speaking to my colleague Wolf Blitzer a little bit earlier. Now we're
starting to see a trend in the United States as well. And the Vatican is good, because the Vatican took its time responding to the Pennsylvania
report. It seems like the Vatican is going to be under more and more pressure to respond in a timely fashion after each one of these reports and
investigations, Delia?
GALLAGHER: Well, right, there's no doubt, Hala, that now there's obviously a precedent set in the United States and it is likely that every state is
going to have to join in and do what Pennsylvania and now Missouri are doing. What's interesting about Missouri is, according to the attorney
general and the archbishop of St. Louis invited this investigation, the Catholic archbishop called them in to do this, so he is going to fully
cooperate with the investigation.
That is really important because obviously ff it was just an internal church thing, nobody would believe it. And the fact that the church is
inviting them to come in and willing to open up their records to them shows a cooperation that will hopefully then produce a report which people will
believe and which may go some way to helping to heal this crisis. But certainly, probably sets an important precedent for reports in the future,
Hala.
GORANI: Delia Gallagher in Rome, thanks so much.
Now to Germany where police say an angry mob targeted refugees and migrants Sunday shouting foreigners get out and this is our city and we are the
people, take a look at some of the images.
So, riders threw bottles at police, officers had to be called in from nearby cities. Police say the protests were sparked by the death of a 35-
year-old man in an early morning flight. On Monday, the public prosecutor said, two men a Syrian and an Iraqi are the ones being investigated for
suspected murder. German chancellor Angela Merkel has condemned the rioters whom she says hunted down people of different looks and origins.
Our senior international correspondent, Atika Schubert, is in Berlin.
So, what happened? So, these riders who heard that a Syrian and an Iraqi were responsible for the death of a German man, went out on the streets and
started -- I read according to some reports chasing down people who look like migrants?
ATIKA SCHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here's what we understand from police, the death, the killing of this 35-year-old happened
at 3:00 a.m., in the hours afterwards, as police were investigating, a call went out on social media to have a spontaneous demonstration at the scene
of the crime. Now the AfD, that is the far right party known as the Alternative for Germany did put out a call for this spontaneous
demonstration at 3:00 in the afternoon. They got about 100 people at the scene, what happened then is then debated.
[15:25:00] But essentially, another group of about 800 people showed up right around 4:00 and the police clearly were not prepared. They lost
control of the situation and these mobs went out on to the streets of Kemnitz shouting those slogans you heard, anti-immigration, anti-refugee
slogans, and in some cases, you can see in the video, even chasing people that appeared to be foreigners or who they suspected of being foreigners.
So, this was a very serious incident that happened. And tensions have been simmering for quite some time in Kemnitz and this area of east Germany, but
this is clearly a situation where those tensions between refugee communities or immigrant communities and local residents completely boiled
over and the police lost control.
GORANI: The AfD is quite a good foothold in that part of the former East Germany. In
fact, they tweeted, the AfD politician, Markus Frohnmaier tweeted this, "if the state is no longer able to protect citizens, then people take to the
streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that, it is now the duty of citizens to stop deadly knife migration, it should have been your
father, son or brother." This party is stirring up anti-immigrant hatred.
SCHUBERT: Well, this is exactly what they stand accused of and the AfD held, the local chapter of the AfD held a press conference to try and
address those concerns and it was very mixed messages. One AfD politician saying that it's regrettable to see this kind of people take to the
streets, this uncontrolled behavior, but we have to ask why this happened. Another AfD politician was completely unrepentant and called on voters to
do more. The AfD clearly called some people out on the streets, how much they are to blame for calling more people out and causing this lawlessness.
That's still being debated now. But it has been condemned by the chancellor in the strongest terms for a spokesperson saying today, that
this is completely unacceptable, especially this sort of hunting or hounding of foreigners or anybody who might look different.
GORANI: Right there's the AfD tweets, there's the Facebook groups, Facebook messages, all those things there that made it difficult for police
to control as you mentioned. Atika Schubert, thanks so much, reporting live from Berlin.
Let's turn to that search for justice and a separation. Take a look at this picture.
Well, looks like any normal photo of a loving mother and their adoring child. But the tragedy that lurks behind this is that moments like this
are very rare for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, the British-Iranian who has been imprisoned in Iran since April 20, 2016 for spying charges which she
denies.
This weekend she was given a 3-day temporary relief and it was hoped that that release would be extended. It allowed her to be reunited with her
daughter. But then all hopes were dashed of an unconditional release. She returned to prison voluntarily on Sunday. And her husband whom we had on
the program a few days ago, continues to work for her release.
Still to come tonight, we're learning more about the victims of the shooting at that video game tournament in Jacksonville. In what may have
happened in the lead up to the tragedy. We're live from Jacksonville, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: All too often we see horrific scenes from mass shootings in the United States but yesterday's incident at a video game tournament in
Jacksonville, Florida was a new kind of horror because it was actually live streamed. And in the video, you can see people playing a game as the
shooting starts, a red dot appears on one of the players.
The young man you see here on the right, we now know he and the other man you see here died. Also, you can hear gunshots and shouting as people are
hurt. And we warn you, you may find this video disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a lot of good games going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot. It's going to be hard to get them on screen. There's a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not a tough out today. Excuse me, not an easy out. Oh.
(GUNSHOTS)
(BLEEP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you shoot me with?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The motive isn't entirely clear, but we do know the shooter had been competing in that tournament, and witnesses say he may have been angry
about losing a game to one of the men who was killed. Brian Todd is live from Jacksonville. What more are we learning, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, we spoke a short time ago to a gentleman named Alex Madunic, he is a victim in this shooting. He took a
bullet in the foot during this attack. We spoke to another witness name Nick Withrow, both of them are gamers, participants in this tournament.
Both of them say that they heard the shooter and saw the shooter fire several rounds, reload and then then keep firing. The sheriff, Michael
Williams, just told us in a news conference that this was a very deliberate act by the shooter, that the shooter actually walked past other patrons in
that restaurant to get to this back room where the gamers were. So getting more and more of a picture here of a very deliberate act by the shooter.
This gentleman who we spoke to in this hospital too named Alex Madunic, as I mentioned, he took a bullet in the foot. He told us that he believes
there was a strong motive for this shooter, David Katz to do what he did, because he believes that he was angry over losing a game to another gamer
in the recent past. Take a listen to what Alex Madunic said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX MADUNIC, SHOOTING VICTIM: He played against somebody and he lost and he was kind of upset about that, so I'm guessing that had something also to
do with it too. He actually wore the same outfit that he wore the night before. He had like some sunglasses on and the same exact that he wore the
day before and he came back just with that one look, kind of just off like something was going to happen eventually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Now, both that witness, Alex Madunic and another one named Nick Withrow told us that there was a noticeable lack of security at this
restaurant behind, there's a Jacksonville Landing yesterday. They said, as opposed to other events, other tournaments, Madden tournaments that they
participate in where there are guards checking people for bags, weapons, things like that. They said there was no noticeable security here. No
guards checking bags, nothing like that. People coming in and out of the restaurant very freely and they were very, very frustrated about that.
We spoke -- we contacted both the companies that owns the Jacksonville landing, Sleiman Enterprises to try to get a comment about that. They have
not gotten back to us.
We've also reached out to EA Sports, the company which sponsored this event to get their take on this, they have also not gotten back to us. Hala.
GORANI: Do we know how the shooter got his weapon? How he acquired it?
TODD: The sheriff, Michael Williams just said a moment ago that they believe that he bought his weapons legally in the State of Maryland and
brought them here. One, I think he said was a 45 caliber pistol, the other was a nine millimeter handgun.
He did say that in one of the weapons, there was a laser site, like an aftermarket laser site. And in one of the videos, you do see one of the
players with some kind of a laser mark on the chest, shortly before the shootings began. It's pretty heroine to look at. But it could be one of
the tools that was used here.
GORANI: Brian Todd, thanks very much, reporting from Jacksonville, in another mass shooting in the United States.
The French president, Emmanuel Macron appears to have eulogized the western world order as we know it. It was a pretty stunning foreign policy speech
stating that Europe can no longer rely on the United States when it comes to its security. Let's get to Melissa Bell. She joins us live from Paris
with more.
So what alternative does Macron propose in terms of a new world order that doesn't involved Europe relying on the U.S. for its security?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a nutshell, Hala, Europe standing on its own two feet when it comes to security, that was very much
at the heart what Emmanuel Macron had to say.
But interestingly, he also, Hala, talked about reaching out to countries like Russia in the search for a new world order as that might function.
But he began really by explaining why things simply couldn't remain as they had been.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Multilateralism is experiencing a major crisis that affects all of our diplomatic activity
above all because of American policies, talks about NATO, the unilateral and aggressive commercial policies that almost results to a trade war
against China, Europe and some others to withdraw from the Paris Accord, the exit from the Iran nuclear deal. We see a lot of impact. The partner
with which Europe had built the post for a multilateral order seems to turn its back on this common history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:35:25] BELL: Now, this is something that you'll remember. The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, Hala, has said just a few months ago that
essentially Europe could no longer rely on its American partner to maintain the world's architecture as we knew it. That it should come now from
Emmanuel Macron so long Donald Trump's friend but so much more powerful reading, with so much more political capitalist disposals than a weakened
Angela Merkel has is, I think, significant going forward.
GORANI: But what happened to that Emmanuel Macron-Donald Trump bromance of just a few months ago? He seems -- I mean, a lot of European leaders when
they say we can't rely on the U.S. anymore, is that code for we can't rely on Donald Trump?
BELL: But I think the last straw really for Emmanuel Macron where those trade tariffs. You heard him refer to them there, Hala. He really felt
from then on that something you sensed had been broken. And this is also, remember, a French president looking at internal issues, not internal to
France, but internal to the E.U.
He's very much looking ahead to the European elections of next year. There are only seven months away, Hala. Many opposition parties here in France,
and particularly the far left. And so let's make this a real referendum on Macron. He wants it to be a referendum on the real issues facing the E.U.
which he believes is an existential crisis that divides Euro files, people who believe in the European project and who want to move forward, things
like a common budget, common defense force and the Euro skeptics that have been winning election after election.
That's what he wants it to be about. But he believes that in order to win that ideological battle, in order to prove the case to the European
project, substantial improvement, substantial progress has to be made, not just ambitions stated.
GORANI: A quick last one on Donald Trump's planned visit to France. Because when he didn't get the big military parade he wanted in Washington,
D.C. on November 10th, he then tweeted that he was going to fly to Paris for the November 11th Armistice Day celebrations. Do we know anything more
about this visit?
BELL: That's right. He'll simply that he is coming and France is preparing for a visit and not a great deal else. But you're right, we'd
heard so much about his -- how much he'd appreciated the Bastille Day celebrations here. And so it has no doubt that frustrated Donald Trump who
will come to watch once again how Europeans mark these things and his military parades in particular, but in a much test here or context
politically.
I mean, clearly, Emmanuel Macron having reach out for them for so long is not feeling quite as generous minded as he was, Hala.
GORANI: But also -- correct me if -- I've lived in Paris for many years, so forgive me, I don't remember what happens on November 11th. I know
perhaps there is - at the Arc de Triomphe, the Arch of Triumph, there is the head of state pays his respects to the Unknown Soldier. Is there a
giant military parade like Bastille Day? I don't seem to remember that for November 11th. Is that what he thinks he's getting?
BELL: No. This is much -- this is much more marked locally. This is a kind of day when school children comes out in every village in France, the
French national anthem is sung, and this by the statue of the Unknown Soldiers, to the lost soldiers of the First and Second World war that exist
in every French village.
So it is hugely marked here in France. Of course it is a bank holiday here in France. But you simply won't get the kind of big 14th of July Bastille
Day display that he got on that occasion. But still, a sense of ceremony and a sense of shared history, no doubt this is something else that
Emmanuel Macron will once again be wanting to remind his American counterpart of.
GORANI: All right. Melissa Bell, thank you very much, live in Paris.
Check us out on social media, Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. And on Twitter, @HalaGorani. See you online, maybe.
Still to come tonight, the U.N. uses a very scary and weighty word to describe the atrocities against the Rohingya in Myanmar, genocide. Find
out who they say is to blame and what happens now.
And on the other side of the world, is there a common thread linking the violence in Myanmar to these scenes here in Germany? We'll look at the
anti-social side of social media.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:40:45] GORANI: The British foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, says he wants to go to Myanmar in person to confront the government and military
about the murder and rape of the minority Rohingya.
Hunt says he was deeply disturbed by today's U.N. report alleging genocide of the Rohingya in Myanmar's Rakhine state. We get more on that from
Alexandra Field.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Myanmar's top military leaders now accused of genocide by United Nations' investigators. The findings
released in a report on the brutal military campaign waged against the Rohingya people, the state was Muslim minority that have lived for
generations in the majority Buddhist country.
Violence erupted a year ago. Military officials maintained they were only targeting terrorist with staged attack on border posts in August 2017, but
the violence was widespread. Villages torched, women raped, thousands killed.
The carnage causing a mass exodus from Myanmar with hundreds of thousands running for their lives to take shelter in makeshift refugee camps in
neighboring Bangladesh. Citing the greatest crimes under international law.
U.N. investigators are now naming names and calling for the prosecution of Myanmar's military commander in chief and five generals.
RADHIKA COOMARASWAMY, U.N. UNDER SECRETARY GENERAL: The scale, brutality and systematic nature of rape and violence indicate that they are part of a
deliberate strategy to intimidate, terrorize, or punish the civilian population. They're used as a tactic of war. That, we found, include
rape, gang rape, sexual slavery, forced nudity, and mutilations.
FIELD: Myanmar's civilian government had little scope to control military actions, according to the report. But there are scathing words for
Myanmar's de facto leader, human rights icon and Nobel Prize winner, Aung San Suu Kyi, for failing to do more to stop the violence.
COOMARASWAMY: We are deeply disappointed that state counselor, Aung San Suu Kyi, has not used her position or her moral authority to stand, prevent
or condemn the unfolding events in Rakhine State.
FIELD: The report calls for immediate action, referral of the case to the international criminal court. Officials in Myanmar have not publicly
responded to the findings and CNN's calls for comment haven't been returned.
But Facebook has responded, moving to ban 20 individuals and organizations, including a senior military commander named in the report. A statement
from the company says, "We want to prevent them from using our service to further inflame ethnic and religious tensions."
The company also saying it was, quote, "too slow to prevent the spread of hate and misinformation."
Alexandra Field, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, part of the reason violence against the Rohingya spread was because of hatred and misinformation posted online. That was the verdict
of international experts, a verdict Facebook is finally responding to, you heard in Alexandria's piece.
The social network is banning a top Myanmar military chief, as well as other organizations and it's acknowledging that it's been too slow to take
action.
Myanmar is not the only country where social media is presenting a challenge to public safety.
[15:45:00] Hadas Gold is here with more. Welcome to London, first of all.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
GORANI: We're having you on the show. So Facebook is banning 20 key accounts.
GOLD: Yes.
GORANI: Related to the Myanmar battles.
GOLD: Well, beyond those 20, they're banning 20 individuals and organizations, including people and organizations that don't even have a
presence on Facebook yet. They have preemptively banning them. They're also have already taken down 18 accounts and 52 pages they said were
accessed by 12 million people in the country and they've taken them down because they said they were spreading hate and misinformation, specifically
targeted to a lot of these minority groups in Myanmar that led to some of this violence.
GORANI: Well, isn't it just very easy to reopen a new page and start spreading the same misinformation online?
GOLD: Theoretically, it could be. But Facebook says it's also taking extra measures both within technology and with actual people to help stop
the spread of this misinformation before it even gets widely out there. They're just hiring, honestly, more people who speak the local languages in
many more of these countries. And there's even things to do with how there's a code behind how fonts are shown based on different languages on
these social media sites and that hampered their technology in terms of being able to identify what was hate speech and what's not. And they said
they are working to fix all of these things.
What's really stunning is that it's taken this long for Facebook to realize, because Myanmar is a huge market for Facebook. They have tens of
millions of users. And they are just now recognizing with the specific problems.
GORANI: And it's interesting that they're having to hire human beings and can't just rely on algorithms and that type of thing. And in Germany,
there was a big study that was fascinating that where there is higher Facebook usage, there is more anti-immigrant violence, and this is from
ordinary users forwarding and perpetuating some stories.
GOLD: Yes. This is such a fascinating study. And at the University of Warwick that was actually just recently released. And they did studies in
Germany where they compared towns, and they said even taking into account, wealth, and education, all these other possible factors.
In areas where Facebook was more widely used, there was more likely to anti-refugee violence. They said specifically that social media can act as
propagation mechanism between online hate speech and real-life crime.
This was a really stunning study to see come up that really connects the sort of online fever swamp and then what can actually happen in real life.
GORANI: Well, in East Germany where these riots took place, there was after the report of that stabbing, immediately Facebook messages and
accounts calling for people to demonstrate. So that also has an impact.
But how do you combat that, though? These are ordinary Facebook users sharing articles and messages online. That's what it's for.
GOLD: Right. And Facebook have come to realize that if they don't start acting themselves, then government is going to start acting. We've already
obviously seen this in Germany, they have some of the strongest hate speech laws where social media companies have to take hate speech down in a
certain amount of time. But other governments, and as we've seen from the U.N. are starting to pay attention and both tell Facebook they need to get
moving on this.
Now, obviously, these are sort of social media platforms. The whole point of this is to have a free flowing of ideas and conversations and they
cannot necessarily police every single thing. But there are certain things they can do to help at least stem part of it.
Now, the other part of it has to do with education and Facebook has said that they're going to try to sort of automatic links that might appear
under certain stories, if they see certain keywords that popup at some of these posting. They'll include a well-regarded news article or some sort
of encyclopedia article that will be included to help provide at least a little bit of a counter to that information.
GORANI: And then it's not just Facebook, it's also WhatsApp. In India, they're trying to limit the forwarding of messages, inciting people to riot
or to commit acts of violence.
GOLD: Well, there have been -- I mean, 16 people have been killed. You sort of mob attacks recently. And part of that has been linked
specifically to WhatsApp. What will happen is people will see rumors and start spreading them around and say, oh, there might be child kidnappers in
the area and they get targeted to one person. Before you know it, there's thousands of people on the streets hurting people, killing people.
And so what WhatsApp, which is actually a Facebook-owned company is now doing -- is they are limiting the number of people that you can forward
chats to. They're still labeling chats that have been forwarded. That doesn't obviously stop all of this from happening. You could still copy
and paste things and send them around.
But again, it's another indication of this giant social media company recognizing its role in what has led to real life consequences.
GORANI: And still trying to figure out how to make sure it limits, how much it's utilized to spread violence and misinformation.
Thanks very much, Hadas Gold.
By the way, we were telling you earlier this hour, that the White House had raised the flag once again after having lowered it to half-staff in honor
of Senator John McCain who died on Saturday. Well the flag has been lowered again, one can only assume that it is to honor Senator McCain who
passed away over the weekend.
[15:50:03] So lowered, raised and lowered again. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: South Africa is striking back at President Donald Trump for his comments on land seizures. Mr. Trump claimed white farmers in South
Africans were being killed so that their land could be given to blacks.
CNN's David McKenzie spoke to South Africa's international relations minister who said the president is just trying to appeal to his base.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LINDIWE SISULU, SOUTH AFRICAN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS MINISTER: Because I think they are resonating with people who stand to benefit because they
probably have the same kind of ideology. I have no idea.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This a racist ideology?
SISULU: I think it is a right-wing ideology. And this is very unfortunate. We've used every opportunity through our communications to
explain to the world what it is that we're doing. It is the most reasonable way to deal with a legacy such as we have. And we almost amazed
at how it could be misinterpreted and acceptable in certain quarters.
MCKENZIE: But it seems like the president of the United States has almost made it acceptable to talk about this.
SISULU: That is why I was indicating that I think it was unfortunate. I would have thought that in a position of a president, the first thing that
you would have done is to call his secretary of state. Our job is to make sure that we can redistribute land, that those people whose land was taken
away from them forcefully and illegally by previous governments should be returned to them, because we would like as much productivity as we can in -
- on the land.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: We turn now to Brexit and how it could impact people living in poverty. Some pro Brexit voters hoped that leaving the European Union
would make their lives better. But it turns out things might actually get worse for them, a whole lot worse.
CNN's Erin McLaughlin went to Wales to investigate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Summer in the Welsh country side, a serene scene that belies an ugly truth. While Wales is a land of
abundance, it's also the land of the hungry.
Over 20 percent of people here live in poverty, according to a study by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, more than anywhere else in the U.K.
And at the Arfon (ph) Food Bank, as Britain barrels towards Brexit, they are concerned the situation could get even worse.
A progressive think tank and a private consultancy both published reports saying the cost of food as basic as this could go up. Unimaginable
scenarios for these volunteers. They remember when food banks were unheard of in a country that prides itself on taking care of its own.
Arwel Jones runs the bank which in the last year alone saw a 10 percent increase in demand.
ARWEL JONES, MANAGER, ARWEL FOODBANK: The situation is already very, very serious. I mean let's be honest. You know, you think about things like
food kitchens and stuff like that with the depression.
MCLAUGHLIN: Did you ever think you'd see a day in which you would be running a food bank in Wales?
JONES: Never. Never.
MCLAUGHLIN: We've been asked to turn the cameras off as soon as people start to arrive for this food. That moment when you can no longer feed
yourself or your family for many is a point of shame.
[15:55:06] That holds true for people like Paul. We meet him outside. Too embarrassed to show his face, his suitcase packed with food for his 6-year-
old son.
PAUL, FOODBANK USER: (INAUDIBLE) for them. You'd probably ask me if (INAUDIBLE), you know because it's bad.
MCLAUGHLIN: You don't have because if you think you'd have to give your son up.
PAUL: Yes. Because I wouldn't want him to starve, you know.
MCLAUGHLIN: Paul says he's struggling with sickness and jacked and changes to the U.K.'s benefit system. What happens with Brexit perhaps the
furthest thing from his mind.
What did you vote?
PAUL: Brexit.
MCLAUGHLIN: You voted to leave?
PAUL: Yes. I just don't think the E.U. should govern us. I just don't like a foreign country deciding what Britain does. It's just our identity,
isn't it?
MCLAUGHLIN: Identity is something people cling to when poverty bites. In 2016, the majority of Wales voted to leave the European Union even though
some argued Brexit could hit the poorest the hardest.
A 2018 study by the consultancy Oliver Wyman found that for all main Brexit scenarios prices will go up between 200 pounds to over 900 pounds per year.
Extra money 19-year-old Llines (ph) says she doesn't have. A single mom, too young to vote at the time of the referendum now sitting in an E.U.
funded cafe created to help the poor. She barely has enough to feed her baby.
Are you familiar with Brexit? The cost of things --
LLINES THOMAS, UNEMPLOYED SINGLE MOTHER: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: -- that it all could go up --
THOMAS: Go up, yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: -- by hundreds of pounds a year, potentially.
THOMAS: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: Are you worried about that.
THOMAS: Yes. That would be (INAUDIBLE) I'm only on -- I can just stock on food. It would go up on the day before (INAUDIBLE)
MCLAUGHLIN: Nevertheless, Llines says she has hope. Once her baby's in school, she plans to get a job.
For Paul, it's different.
Do you see a way out for yourself?
PAUL: For me, no.
MCLAUGHLIN: There's no way out. This is your life.
PAUL: Yes. It's sad.
MCLAUGHLIN: In Wales, there's worry, worry that when it comes to Brexit, the highest price might ultimately be paid by those who can least afford
it.
Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Northwestern Wales.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And Brexit hasn't even happened yet.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CLOSING BELL RINGING)
[16:00:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senators warned me on Friday this would be a breakout moment and how. The S&P closes at an all-time high as the
closing bell rings on Wall Street.
END
