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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Dad Slaughters Family, Blames Wife; Bombshell New Court Documents Just Released; Accused Killer Dad`s Roommate Speaks Out. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired September 18, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- various items, and all these things came together to provide some extremely powerful evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is sitting all alone in a jail cell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is under something, it is called close watch, which is similar to suicide watch. It`s pretty much the bare essentials.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because police say he killed his entire family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never once cried.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he sure does have a lot of requests for the judge in his case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Confidential jail visits? Who is he talking to? One of those visitors be someone he had an affair with?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Chris Watts actually worried about a media frenzy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to see what you are up against.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plus, you know the Watts as a couple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looked at Shanann and Chris, they just immediate thought was love.

SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: People are placed in our life for a reason.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what was Chris like before Shanann?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a good mechanic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always wondered why he was so quiet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were there foreboding signs about what laid ahead in his future?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not the Chris we know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We talk exclusively with the roommate of the man now accused of murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This Crime and Justice. Tonight in Greeley,

Colorado, Chris Watts is all alone in a jail cell, where he spent all day by himself, where he probably thinking about his wife, Shanann, his little

girls, Bella and Cece and his unborn baby boy Nico. Who Chris Watts will never see again, because police say Chris Watts murdered them all. In a

solitary confinement under suicide watch is punishment enough before Chris goes to trial, inmate number 360519 is getting an extra dose of denial from

his very own judge.

Chris has made multiple motions since slipping into that orange jumpsuit, trying to keep certain details from getting out. And he is not exactly

getting his way. Chris isn`t the only one filing the motions. Because curiously enough, prosecution just filed a motion of their own. And hot

off the press, they`re asking that the autopsy report that we`ve all been waiting on stay private. All the way up until this case goes to trial.

The autopsy report that could hold all of the answers as to how these girls were killed. And whether it was Chris Watts who did all the killing.

Joining me now, crime journalist Pat Lalama. Pat, this was a real surprise to see the prosecution looking to make sure the autopsies didn`t go public.

And not just now, not just for a few weeks, all the way until trial. Why did they do this?

PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Well, my guess is, in this case, if they feel that the information about the results of those

autopsies is so pertinent and critical to getting a conviction in their case, they don`t want to take any chances and as an observer and a media --

as a media person, we`d like to know, as an observer I can understand why.

BANFIELD: But what about the notion of interviewing witnesses. Does it give you an idea that maybe they aren`t as far along as we thought they

might be?

LALAMA: No, I read perhaps more the opposite, it said they were afraid that the release of the information could taint witnesses who have not yet

been interviewed and, of course, a potential jury pull, maybe there are people they are setting their sights on potential witnesses that they

haven`t spoken to, and I think in fairness to their investigation, they have every right to cross the t`s, dot the i`s and keep it shut at this

point.

BANFIELD: Jeff Gold, defense attorney. Does this sound to you like they are so worried about what the details are in that autopsy that they

absolutely can`t have people out there that they still have to witness, knowing what they know?

JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, maybe. They have to give it to the defense pretty soon, you know --

BANFIELD: They haven`t yet.

GOLD: They need to when they give discovery. So there may be a short window of people that they do need to interview. I think it`s more likely

than the taint of the jury, because they haven`t made a motion, you know, as to the defense. Because when the defense gets it, they can do what they

want with it, unless there is such a motion.

BANFIELD: They`re absolutely saying in writing. That releasing this would quote, result in tainting witnesses that have not yet been interviewed.

Jeffrey, what kind of witnesses would be tainted by how this people died, other than Chris himself?

GOLD: Well, I mean, you know, we don`t know what`s in that autopsy report. If we knew what was in there, we might guess the witnesses, but I do agree

with what Pat said, they may not be as far along in this investigation as we thought.

BANFIELD: Pat, the other issue. And we just brought this out from one of the motions last week, and that was that the prosecutors wanted cheek

swabs. The prosecutors wanted handprints and fingerprints and the prosecutors wanted photographs of that being done to the hands.

[18:05:07] I mean, they wanted it so airtight that even the fingerprints and the palm prints had to be photographed while being actually executed in

those photographed. They call them Polaroid`s. You know, harkening back to the day where they probably were Polaroid`s. They wanted them clipped

to the file as the file is being completed right there in front. So there would be no chain of custody issues. How did Chris Watts respond to that?

LALAMA: Well, I happen to have it right here. According to Chris Watts, I can`t wait to hear the attorneys dissect this one. He claims -- he cites

the fourth amendment search and seizure. And he says there`s no probable cause, there is no reason why he should have to do this, he hasn`t seen a

page of discovery, and, therefore, he says he doesn`t have to do this.

BANFIELD: That is crazy, because as I recall the fourth amendment, you know, from the top of my head, it`s unreasonable search and seizure. What

is unreasonable about a guy who`s wanted for trial on three different murder charges, two murder one case for position of trust? And a battery

of other of just nine felony counts against this guy. Jeffrey Gold jump in here. You`re the lawyer. Aren`t unreasonable search and seizure, I

understand, but how unreasonable is it to ask a guy who`s in solitary on murder charges for his palm prints, his fingerprints and his cheek swabs.

GOLD: These exemplars are all routine. All the swabs are routine, there`s no Fifth Amendment right. They really don`t need much at all. They have

enough to ask for it, so it`s going to be.

BANFIELD: What is this? Is there a defense attorney trying to make hey? Make it difficult, make it expensive for prosecutor?

GOLD: I don`t know. Expensive, just to object. That is all, to object to object. They are not going to win. They are going to get the swabs,

they`re going to get any kind of exemplars they want in this situation. It would be different if there was no probable cause for the defense, but

obviously there is.

BANFIELD: Yes. Kyle Peltz, you`re sitting beside Jeffrey Gold, and Kyle has been working on this case. You`re a crime and justice producer, but

honestly you`re a document demon. I have not seen somebody comb through the documents like you have in this case. And in fact, you have been

instrumental in getting many of them actually posted, request from the conversations you`ve had with the court. Which means you`ve had to read

them very fast. There`s been sort of a snowstorm of them lately. Something that you noticed about the media interest in the case. Give me a

bit of a feel of what you are seeing in terms of this fight that Chris has been having to shutdown leaks.

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right. We knew Chris, he wasn`t happy about some of the information coming out in the media. He is

thinking someone in law enforcement was leaking this information. And he actually asked the judge to order a massive investigation into who is doing

this. And today the court just released a handful more documents where the Judge slapped down that request and said, no, we`re not launching an

investigation.

BANFIELD: I think you were either on the set or really close by when we broke the news about his conditions in solitary, under suicide watch. He

has no reading material in his cell, but he is allowed to look at a communal newspaper or a couple newspapers in the hour out room. That is

the room where you get to spend your one hour out of your 24, out on another room and on the table there are some newspapers, so Chris Watts has

access to news in that respect. He doesn`t have access to television at all, but he seems to know or at least his attorney seems to know exactly

what has been leaked. And he put it down on paper. He actually listed what he was angry with.

PELTZ: He did. You would think that hour out room that he had access to maybe subscribe to "People" magazine, because People Magazine comes up

frequently in his documents, he is not happy with some of his information that they`re getting apparently from law enforcement.

BANFIELD: He is actually quoting them, isn`t he?

PELTZ: He quotes quite a few People magazine issues here.

BANFIELD: I remember one of the first things that People magazine came out with was that he showed no emotion while he was being booked. And he cited

that.

PELTZ: He cited that. I think that was one of the first things he cited. There was another People article, and I`m reading here, because "People"

has broken a lot of news and Chris Watts isn`t happy about it. Where a source apparently says there`s no evidence Shanann killed the kids. And

People magazine have some sources saying there is evidence that Chris had been thinking about this for some time. Down to the evidence found in

Chris`s truck.

BANFIELD: So last week we broke that story. We did not break this story, we told what had been broken on that story, again from People magazine.

They have an impeccable sources it seems about the evidence from the truck, and he cites the evidence. What did he say, exactly?

PELTZ: The article that cites the evidence in the truck, Chris puts that in one of his documents. He also mentions the evidence found in the

bedding, clothes, computers, phones. The text messages, and search histories. He and his defense team aren`t happy with this information

getting out there.

BANFIELD: They listed it all out in the motion.

PELTZ: They listed it in that whole document.

BANFIELD: And what did the judge ultimately say about this? Demand from Chris Watts to investigate the entire defense. From every police

department that touched the case, from the prosecutor`s office to the sheriff`s department, to the jailers, what was the judge`s response to Mr.

Christopher Watts?

PELTZ: That is not happening. That is not what prosecutors did, exactly.

[18:10:00] BANFIELD: We are not doing it. We`re not doing your massive government investigation that you`ve asked for, so that is it that is the

end of that.

PELTZ: Well, Chris is fighting back. He is asking the judge now to reconsider that. No word on if the judge has ruled on that yet.

BANFIELD: OK. One of the big questions I would have, is that there has been a lot of news, including on this program broken about his sexual

predilection prior to these alleged murders. Right, because what are the things you look for when there`s a wife and children murdered and it`s out

of the blue, and uncharacteristic, you wonder about the affairs, some of the news broke about the affair at work. That was in the affidavit. And

then the other affairs that came from this program and "People" magazine. Did he complain about those?

PELTZ: No, and that is the one thing that an article does not mention that Chris cites in his court documents, none of these people articles, none of

these other local news articles that Chris takes issue with mention anything about extra marital affairs other than the one police say was

going on with someone at work.

BANFIELD: Yes. It goes without saying, some of the most lurid parts of the investigation so far have been there were male and female lovers and

not just one or two, that there were many. And not -- I said you were the document demon, because I know you went over every inch of these documents.

You went over every inch of the complaints that Chris Watts had to the court about the media coverage. Ours included, not one mentioned about the

men and women he has been seeing.

PELTZ: Pretty much every People article that came out, Chris Watts has been telling the judge hey, look, another leak, another leak. I mean,

almost as he is reading it real-time, but in the course of all of these articles coming out, there was an article by People magazine mentioning

relationships with both men and women, Chris Watts does not mention that article at all.

BANFIELD: There was a man on this program who alleged to have a 10-month affair with him as well, and he has not have any complains about that, not

one mentioned on all those documents. Has he had been given discovery, because that is big part of this.

PELTZ: Well, as of two weeks ago, his defense team says they haven`t seen a single page of discovery.

BANFIELD: Wow, not single -- Jeff, is that weird? We`re a month into this.

GOLD: No, they have some more time to do that.

BANFIELD: Not a single page?

GOLD: It is not being arrange yet. So, they have time to do that.

I would just want to mention on -- the reason why it`s about the government, the state in this case, because he may have a motion forget

about the investigation. He`ll never get the investigation, he can have an emotion to dismiss the case if he can prove the state was selectively

leaking things to taint the jury. That is where it goes legally, this stuff about the investigation was over the top.

BANFIELD: Well, that is -- listen, everything about this case is over the top. And I think it`s because nothing about this case makes sense. You

don`t typically have an accused family annihilator, with a background like Chris Watts, with a wife like Chris Watts, with children like Chris Watts.

With Facebook pages like Chris Watts, a guy like this, who everybody -- I mean, literally everyone who we`ve contacted has said, this was not the

guy. And who do you think might know him best? Who do you think might know the guy before this news broke? Other than the dead people? It might

be the people who lived with him. It might be his roommate. It might be the man who knew Chris when. And after the break, he is going to speak

with us.

[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Character is everything, isn`t it? Especially when you want someone to believe you. Character is what makes the man. Many people have

said it over and over again. So character often comes into question. Especially when you`re charged with three murders. The three murders of

your own family. So what kind of character is this man, Chris Watts? What kind of character does he have? And has his character changed over time?

Or was something strange long ago.

Hard to know unless you talk to those who knew him when. Richard Hodges knew him when, he was Chris Watts former roommate in North Carolina, where

they attended classes together at the NASCAR technical institute, he joins me now live.

Richard, thank you so much for being with us tonight. First and foremost, may I say to you I`m sorry for what you have discovered, is now a part of

your life, that a person you knew well has come into contact with this kind of crime story and maybe responsible for this kind of crime story. The

biggest question so many people have is, what kind of person is the Chris Watts that you lived with?

RICHARD HODGES, FORMER ROOMMATE OF CHRIS WATTS: Well, I mean, I kind of hate to echo, what a lot of people have said before, but Chris was

definitely one of those people at least when I knew him. He was straight as an arrow. He was very dedicated to school, he was very dedicated to his

work. I believe that one of his ex-high schoolteachers even said, you know, he was that most likely to succeed, and he was. You know, he wasn`t

the kind of guy that went out and partied all the time, a lot of the guys did. They went out every single night and Chris was not like that. He was

more, this is school, this is my future, this is what I`m going to do and he worked hard at it, and he graduated with honors and everything. So, it

is very strange to see someone like him somehow transform into what we see today.

[18:20:05] BANFIELD: If in fact, he is guilty of these crimes, he is a monster, I can`t imagine what this is like for you to process, what are you

thinking about as you start to understand what`s happened in Colorado?

HODGES: I mean, for me personally, I can`t say that it really has affected me personally. It`s not like I can sit here and say, well, maybe there was

a danger back in the day. You know, I never had that thought in mind. There was never anything in his past that would have alerted me in anyway

shape or form to this kind of behavior. So, I mean, it`s definitely gotten a lot of us who have not talked to each other in a long time talking. A

lot of my fellow classmates, we`ve all started talking and we are all on the same page, no one gets it. Everyone is kind of like, this came from

left field. This isn`t who we knew. You know, we don`t know what to make of it. So, I mean, that is how it makes me feel, it`s just very confusing

and it is very inquisition as to, what could have caused Chris to go from the person I knew to the person we`re seeing.

BANFIELD: So, you went to school together in 20014 that is only 14 years ago. It is really not that long ago. Did you stay in touch with Chris

Watts, were you Facebook friends the last decade and a half?

HODGES: We were not. So, after we finished school, we both worked together at the same dealership. And then after that, shortly thereafter I

realized automotive was not just my cup of tea. I was very good at it at school but in practice, so I actually chose a different career path and

when I did, I ended up having to move. Once I move, just overtime, we just -- I mean, we were buddies but we are not like great, great friends, so we

just eventually lost communication. I`d say the last time we spoke to each other was probably around 2005. That was probably about it and Facebook

wasn`t really popular back then either. So, we weren`t Facebook friends or anything like that, I just kind a lost all communications with him.

BANFIELD: What about the rest of the friends. I`m so fascinated to hear you say that you`ve all reconnected over this, because it`s just so

jarring. It`s so unexpected and it`s a bit earth shattering to be connected to someone who`s being accused of the things that Chris Watts is

accuse of. Did your friends mention anything about staying in touch with him, the friends that you all knew together at one point?

HODGES: I would say out of everyone in the group. I was probably the most like connected to Watts. We had like a little click, when we all went to

school, a small group that we kind of all hung out with, but out of everybody, I was probably the person who was most, I guess, bonded to him,

you know, if that is the proper way of wording it. So no, once we all left school, I mean, it`s not like we just didn`t care about each other, but

just over time -- I only kept in touch with a very select few. And that is how everyone was.

BANFIELD: It sounds almost like, and correct me if I`m wrong. It sounds like nobody really stayed close to him. Does that speak a little to his

character, to his personality, was he a loner. Did he move off and kind of leave his old life behind?

HODGES: So, Chris was quiet, he was pretty reserved, but not in like a negative fashion. He was not the kind of guy who is just going to walk up

to and introduce himself and try to make friends. He was more of a kind of guy who you become friends with out of happenstance. We were obviously

friends because we were in classes together. And that is how we ended up meeting. He very rarely went out with us. So maybe that contributes to

it, you know, he wasn`t as tight knit with anybody else, but he was pretty shy, very reserved. Like I said, very dedicated to what he was doing at

the time. Very hard on himself. He wanted to get those good grades, he wanted to do well. So he would never do anything that would jeopardize

that like partying or going out drinking like so many others may have.

BANFIELD: So, I think it`s your mom who may have saved your graduation program from back in 2004?

HODGES: She did.

BANFIELD: God bless, sir. I`m not sure if we have an image of it. I think it shows something that is fascinating about Chris Watts. There`s

you on the left hand column Richard Hodges, and then Chris is on the right hand column. You see all those characters afterwards like a diamond an

asterisk, an ABK. Those all indicate accolades, excellence in attendance that is perfection, perfect attendance, Directors honors list, a nomination

to the alpha beta kappa honor society. I also notice that no one else in your class had the number of accolades that he did. He had them all. He

kind a won every category.

HODGES: Yes. He was very dedicated. Like I said, he was very strict, he would go to school like in the mornings, when he got off, he would go to

the dealership and he would work.

[18:25:06] And then after that, it was study time, for leisure he would watch either TV or sports. He was very physically fit, you know, when we

were going to school together. I know that some of the video I had seen, he kind of dropped off a little bit. And he got physically fit again.

Back when he was with us, he was pretty beefed up, worked pretty consistently. That is all he did, the party life was not for him. It was

all about school and doing well.

BANFIELD: That leads me to another area that I think it is fascinating about this case. The fact that he was beefed up and fit, he certainly

wasn`t at the time he was doing videos of self-help and relationship help and talking about how relationships can go south. Especially when you meet

someone at work. Lo and behold he met someone at work according to the police, and was having an affair with her prior to these alleged murders.

But the dating issue, if he was taking care of himself, and working out and keeping fit, did you have any information or did see him ever dating anyone

male or female?

HODGES: I did not. I cannot remember a single solitary incident where he was ever trying to actively engage in any kind of relationship. He was

very -- kept to himself. Very focused on what he did. And that was pretty much it. I mean, he never brought anybody over. He definitely wasn`t

sneaking out and going and meeting anybody. So now, back then, it was just him. It was him and what he was engaged in, and that was just school and

his work.

BANFIELD: Was that because, you know, the study regiment was heavy? I mean, there`s all sorts of reasons people don`t date, if they`re terribly

busy at work or overwhelmed with school. Was that the reason or did you find it odd that he had no relationships one way or the other?

HODGES: I mean, the work load wasn`t like real bad. And also, he was very good at what he did. He was very good at working on cars. That was one of

his natural talents. So, it wasn`t like that, but I think he was more of a perfectionist, I think that he was very focused on getting as good of a

grade as he could. And he just focused on that but at the same time, it was more of that reserved personality that kind of prevented him from just

going out and meeting people. You know, he very rarely went out with us, you know, when we went out.

BANFIELD: And if he did -- if he did go out with you, to some of the bars or pubs around town. What was he like in that kind of a setting?

HODGES: Social with us, but not anyone else. You know, like I said, he wasn`t the guy that would walk up and introduce himself and say, hey, I`m

Chris Watts. You know, when he knew you and he was friends with you like he was with us, he was a lot more laid back. You know, crack up a laugh

with you, everything, like normal. You know, nothing out of the ordinary, but he wasn`t -- he probably didn`t like large groups. I would say, he

wasn`t a big fan of large groups that is probably why he didn`t go to the house parties and things like that. He eventually did as the school year

was coming to an end, when we are graduating, he did go to a house party, but even then he was just having a good time, but not trying to actively

engage with people he just he didn`t know.

BANFIELD: Yet, were there are sorts of women interested in him?

HODGES: If there were, I didn`t know. There were a few at the school, but none that I am aware of.

BANFIELD: Do you have any recollection of Richard at all of Chris being impulsive? Acting in an unusual way when he wanted something? Or when

circumstances were out of the norm?

HODGES: No. He was pretty -- he was pretty strict. He had his routine and that is what he stuck to. I wouldn`t say he was impulsive or anything

like that. In terms of his attitude he would maybe get down on himself once in a while. But I think that was more of him pushing himself to do

better in school. It was never like anger towards anything. I can`t remember him ever being mad about anything.

BANFIELD: Wow!

HODGES: He just wasn`t that kind of guy, he was very mellow. If you watch his interview and he is kind of emotionless a little bit. That is Chris.

That is how he was.

BANFIELD: I think Richard, this story is so gripping, because none of it makes sense, and everything that you`ve just told me adds to this. It

doesn`t make sense. And I`m just curious if you are troubled in an extreme way by what has transpired with this young man that you used to live with?

HODGES: I think in my opinion, the biggest lesson from this whole situation is you think you know someone, but you really don`t. There`s

always going to be people that are going to have skeletons in their closets that they hide very well. I mean, this is the perfect example of someone

who we knew was going to be out there doing the best he could do. When I saw the Facebook posts and I saw, like, him with his family, I mean, it

make sense to me, you know, that that`s Chris. That he was out there being, you know, very

(CROSSTALK)

HODGES: Yeah, successful at life. You know, having a good family. He had a nice house.

(CROSSTALK)

HODGES: He had a lot of debt, but I didn`t know that.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: Can I ask you, this is an odd question, but since you have this tangential connection to Chris

Watts, would you ever want to reach out to him now to satisfy the why in all of this?

HODGES: Not me personally. I mean, if that`s something where like psychologists or whoever, psychiatrists, you know, they dig into it and

they find more of a reason. I`d always be interested in it, but me as a person wanting to reach out and actually speak to him, no.

I don`t really -- I don`t really have a care, need or desire for that kind of contact. I mean, what`s happened has happened. Obviously, I think it

will all come out, you know, eventually. And I will just wait, you know, like everybody else and kind of see how this develops.

BANFIELD: Has anyone contacted you from either the prosecution or the defense quite frankly in this case?

HODGES: No. I guess I`m kind of like a sleeper, per say. Not many people know about the fact that me and him were associated. Actually, you guys

found me through happenstance looking into his past and you found someone who actually works with me by the same name, but isn`t obviously this Chris

Watts.

But they knew when they were contacted by you guys that I knew him and I actually lived with him, and that`s how we ended up getting connected.

BANFIELD: Well, it`s entirely possible that you may end up being connected to the case in another way. If that is the case, I am sorry for you,

because this is an inexplicable tragedy and there is a family that is so unbearably heartbroken, I dare say two families that are heartbroken, and a

domino effect of people who are devastated by the loss of these little girls and by Shannan Watts.

I thank you so much for taking the time to help us figure this out. I can`t say that you did. I mean, honestly, I think I`m even more puzzled after

speaking with you. But I really appreciate you giving us that picture.

HODGES: Not a problem. I appreciate it. Thank you, ma`am.

BANFIELD: Richard Hodges, Chris Watts` former roommate, from Mooresville (ph), North Carolina at the NASCAR Technical Institute. And if you feel the

same way I do, then maybe some of the stuff we`re about to report on may help you answer some questions. That`s next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time your client goes on video and says something like that and the evidence totally contradicts it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where my kids are. I don`t know where Shannan is.

BANFIELD (on camera): He lied to all of us. Why are we going to expect for a moment he`s not going to lie to the police?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): A dead body gives off different smells.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You think it`s possible the dogs may have detected smell of a dead woman and her two daughters inside the house and

alerted investigators?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You believed it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did. We feel so stupid about that now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: They say one man`s trash is another man`s treasure. The question tonight is whether Chris Watts trash was treasure for police? For those

investigators who showed up to search the home for evidence, after Chris Watts was carted off in handcuffs. What clues may have been carted off his

property that had been in one of the big blue bins scheduled for pickup? It`s a big question.

And Art Roderick is a former assistant director of U.S. Marshals and a CNN law enforcement analyst. The trash is important.

ART RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR U.S. MARSHALS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah.

BANFIELD: It`s not insignificant. Give me a bit of a feel for what investigators do when they see trash pickup outside at the end of your

driveway, when three people are missing.

RODERICK: Yeah, I mean, I`ve done in my career, several what we call trash pulls. Trash pulls are a common thing that law enforcement will do to

gather evidence. You`d be surprised what people throw away in their trash. I think in this particular case here, you know, you have the bed sheet

issue that was found out by the oilfield there, by the oil tanks.

So they are pretty sure that they probably did a trash pull that Tuesday morning to see what he`s throwing away and what he`s trying to clean up at

that particular point.

BANFIELD: OK, good point. Good point. So, I`m going to give you a time line and I want you to help me through it. The pictures we`re seeing are

actually from two days past --

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: -- that Monday, right? When the disappearance --

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: -- is announced to everybody. He`s on the porch saying, somebody help me find my wife and two children.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: So, that happened on Monday, the 13th. Tuesday, August 14 at 7:00 a.m., that trash was scheduled for pickup. OK?

RODERICK: Right.

[18:40:00] BANFIELD: And it was that night he stayed at the Thayers` home. OK?

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: He wasn`t staying in his home --

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: -- on Tuesday night. But he was staying at his home the night before. The night before trash pickup. By Wednesday, August 15th, he`s

arrested, and they`re combing that house and taking all those giant trash bags out, evidence bags. They`re not trash in those trash bags. Those are

evidence bags.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: Think about this, Art, for a second. OK? Monday, he`s on the porch saying help me, help me. But he stays in the house Monday night.

RODERICK: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Why on earth was that not a crime scene? There were three missing people. There were strange things, maybe not criminally strange,

but strange things in the house. Right?

RODERICK: Right. That`s the key part.

BANFIELD: All the bed sheets were pulled off the master bed and --

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: -- and clumped on to the bedroom floor. We`re not sure that the trash, the kitchen trash contained the sheets that day.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: We think actually they may have contained -- the kitchen trash may have contained the sheets two days later when they arrested him. Why

wasn`t it a crime scene Monday night? He may have had, if he is guilty, he may have 48 hours to clean up everything in that house.

RODERICK: He very well could have. I mean, we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight at this point. Ashleigh, I think we got to go back and look at

the initial time line on that Monday when she fails to show up for the doctor`s appointment at 10:00 a.m., that`s when her friend calls in.

And law enforcement does what they always do. They did a welfare check, not knowing if any crime had been committed at that time. And that`s really

when it kicked off.

So they didn`t have any major evidence that a crime had been committed probably until the next day when they really started looking into it, and

started interviewing him, and actually watched that interview that he did with the local news station there. So, welfare check --

BANFIELD: You know --

RODERICK: Go ahead.

BANFIELD: Welfare check is one thing. But I want Jeff Gold here for a second. What probable cause does somebody need to shut down a site like

that home when three people are missing? Everything is locked up tight from the inside. OK? There`s no breach. There`s nothing. But three people are

missing, including two children.

And bed sheets are all askew. And the guy on the porch is acting weird. What kind of probable cause do you need to say, Mr. Watts, you can`t stay

here tonight, it`s a crime scene?

JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it was probably wasn`t at the time, because people go missing, women go missing and they take their kids. They

leave. So, you know, you have to have a little bit more which I think they had by the next say. So, I`m not going to fault the police yet for it

because that`s what happens, people leave.

BANFIELD: He told two different stories to the officers that arrived. One he said he got up at 4:00, the other one he was up at 5:00.

GOLD: I got you, but I don`t know that we can fault the police quite yet because people leave.

BANFIELD: I don`t mean it`s a fault. All I say is what probable cause do you need to say, Mr. Watts, we`re going to find your family. But in the

meantime, any criminal who came in and stole them, we want to protect the scene.

GOLD: Well, you need probable cause a crime committed, that somebody was kidnapped or killed or assaulted or something.

BANFIELD: Her phone, her keys, her medicine, her car seats, her car. Everything is locked up in that house.

GOLD: Right. I think that first night, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

BANFIELD: Could have been the most critical night for evidence.

GOLD: You just don`t know.

BANFIELD: Sort of been. All right. So, we delved into a lot of theories surrounding this particular case, this particular family. But what about

money? Could that have been a driving factor in the murder of Shannan Watts and her daughters. We`re going to tackle that.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that everything in life happens for a reason.

How many babies do I have in my belly?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): How did these three people die?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hug her tight. To hug the girls one last time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): He`s in jail right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): He`s not doing well at all and depression is setting in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew something was wrong, but I didn`t know what.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: There are so many things that are mystifying about this story. And there are so many missing pieces of this puzzle. And perhaps that is

why it is so mystifying. Because we`re waiting for those pieces to get filled in. But we`re starting to make some guesses as to what might be

those missing pieces. And the bed sheets are a big part of this story.

Jeff Gold, I want you to come back into this story along with Art Roderick. When the police showed up on Monday morning. There`s a missing person`s

case. They did a check of the house.

And actually, Kyle Peltz, I know you got the document in front of you. The affidavit says they found bed sheets clumped up on the bedroom floor that

very morning, about noon or a little bit afternoon. Bed sheets from the master bed clumped up. Correct?

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME & JUSTICE PRODUCER: Right.

BANFIELD: But they didn`t say what sheet.

PELTZ: Right. We know two officers arrived that day for the welfare check. When they get there, they find the master bedroom bed stripped off, its

bedding on the floor.

BANFIELD: Right.

PELTZ: Now, they do say they checked that bedding and found no signs of foul play.

BANFIELD: They didn`t count the pieces of the bedding, did they?

PELTZ: It`s not in the document.

BANFIELD: OK. So what`s interesting is later in the document, Jeff, it says, they eventually, and they don`t say when, but they eventually find

three pieces of bedding in the kitchen trash. Two pillow cases and a top sheet. It appears there`s no fitted sheet. But we do know that a matching

sheet to that set is found out in the oilfield.

[18:50:01] So, is it wrong to extrapolate here to say, since they didn`t give us this time line of when those two sets of sheets are found, that

perhaps if he is guilty, he may have used the fitted sheet from the master bed to wrap one of the bodies.

I doubt all three, for burial, because one body -- Shannan was found in the shallow grave -- and then eventually once the police left and he was able

to stay in that house on Monday night, he realized, damn it, I have an incomplete set of sheets, and I know that the completed set is out on that

field.

I`m in big trouble if they ever find that sheet out in the field. And they find these sheets in my house. I think I`ll put them in the kitchen trash

and eventually get rid of them.

GOLD: I mean, that`s very logical. And if a prosecutor never knows, for sure, it`s a great theory for him to tell the jury because -- or her --

because it makes sense. What have you said here makes a lot of sense.

BANFIELD: So, Art Roderick, as a detective, what do you think? I mean, look, is this something that would make a lot of sense in terms of why they

haven`t given us the time line in the affidavit? They have not told us when the sheets were found in the kitchen trash --

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: -- but they did tell us the clumped up sheets, you know, and perhaps an incomplete set, we don`t know, were on the bedroom floor, but we

do know it was an incomplete set found in the kitchen trash.

RODERICK: Yeah, Ashleigh. They haven`t given us a lot of information. There`s a lot of blanks here. When you look at this whole complete time

line, I think that at this particular point in time, law enforcement has all the forensic stuff they need from the crime scene both at the oilfield

and back at the house and the truck, the garbage.

Now, I think what they`re trying to do is come up with motive. And this is where we`re getting into all these different people, that they got to go

out and interview all the people he was having affairs with.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

RODERICK: What his private digital footprint look like? Does he talk about possible --

BANFIELD: That is all to come.

RODERICK: -- away with his family members? So --

BANFIELD: I`m so focused on the sheets, though, because honestly, I could not figure out until tonight why there were sheets on the master bedroom

floor and there were sheets in the kitchen trash. But now I`m realizing we were never told that these were --

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: -- found at the same time. So hold on for a second. Pat Lalama, I have a question from Jessica Hudson on Facebook. We have been getting

amazing questions from our Facebook viewers. She said this. Do you think Chris Watts is being honest with his legal team? And I know because you`ve

covered so much crime, this actually is a problem.

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Of course it`s a problem, especially if there is some wiring snafu up there in his brain. We all keep talking about

how it`s just on the surface. Oh, my gosh, what a loving, beautiful family. I`m not so sure, Ashleigh.

Every time I`m on your show, I keep bringing another piece of the my own little (INAUDIBLE) puzzle together. We are looking at people who have

severe financial problems. Where are his close friends now? Mr. Hodges was wonderful. But that was a long time ago.

Where are his close friends? Where are his close family? He allegedly has a sexual identity problem. I don`t hear from his family saying we support our

son. This is a guy who had dreams of being in the race car business. Why isn`t he doing anything like that?

BANFIELD: Well --

LALAMA: I think there is something inside we don`t know about and we are going to find out.

BANFIELD: I`m with you. I`m fascinated that there is so much silence all around this case. It`s more silence than most other cases I have covered.

But you just gave me an idea. Pat Lalama, thank you for that. You said that Mr. Hodges did a wonderful job of telling us all about Chris. Where are his

friends now?

I want to get Mr. Hodges back on the line. Because after the break, I actually want to show him that interview that he did on the porch, telling

everybody, lying to his teeth, help me find my family. And I want to ask Mr. Hodges if this is the Chris Watts, this guy, today, if this is the

Chris Watts he remembers.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Did you guys get into an argument before she left?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t like an argument. We had emotional conversation. But I`ll leave it at that. But it`s -- I just want them back.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want them to come back. And if they`re not safe right now, that`s what tearing me apart. If they`re safe, they`re coming

back. If they`re not, this has got to stop, somebody has to come forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: It`s a lying performance for the record books. Chris Watts on the porch of his house to every cameraman who would come by saying help me

find my family, when only days later, police say he admitted to having buried them.

[19:07:00] So, it got me thinking. Is that the man that Richard Hodges remembers? That demeanor on the porch. And we got Richard back up to answer

that question. Richard, you probably saw that and cringed, but is that the man you remember?

HODGES: So, in terms of the way he presented himself, the fact that he kind of had his arms crossed, nervous rocking, that would seem pretty

typical because he was a shy-natured kind of guy. The part that strikes me odd would be the laugh, that was a little, you know, creepish. But he was -

-

BANFIELD: Did he ever lie to you, when you knew him? When you were roommates, was he ever known to lie?

HODGES: No. I mean, I don`t have any references. No.

BANFIELD: Fascinating. Richard, I had to get you back for that. It was something that we all thought of as we said good-bye to you earlier. And

I`d like to ask you back on the show another time. I hope you will join us again.

HODGES: Thank you, ma`am.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Richard Hodges. Thank you, everyone. Please stay tuned. The next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want them back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He is sitting all alone in a jail cell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): It is called close watch, which is similar to suicide watch. It`s pretty much the bare essentials.

BANDFIELD: Because police say he killed his entire family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never once cried.

BANDFIELD: But he sure does have a lot of requests for the judge in his case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Confidential jail visits? Who is he talking to? One of those visitors be someone he had an affair with?

BANFIELD: Is Chris watts actually worried about a media frenzy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to see what you`re up against.

BANFIELD: Plus you know the Watts as a couple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looked at Shanann and Chris, they just immediate thought was love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are placed in our life for a reason.

BANDFIELD: what was Chris like before Shanann?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a good mechanic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always wondered why he was so quiet.

BANDFIELD: Were there foreboding signs about what laid ahead in his future?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not the Chris we know.

BANDFIELD: We talk exclusively with the roommate of the man now accused of murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Good Evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and Justice. Tonight in Greeley, Colorado, Chris Watts is all alone in a

jail cell, where he spent all day by himself probably thinking about his wife Shanann, his little girls Ella and CC and his baby boy Nico who Chris

Watts will never see again because police say Chris Watts murdered them all.

And is solitary confinement under suicide watch isn`t punishment enough before Chris goes to trial, inmate number 360519 is getting an extra dose

of denial from his very own judge because Chris has made multiple motions since slipping into that orange jumpsuit, trying to keep certain details

from getting out. And he is not exactly getting his way. And Chris isn`t the only one filing the motions because curiously enough, prosecution just

filed a motion of their own.

And hot off the press, they`re asking that the autopsy report that we`ve all been waiting on stay private. All the way up until this case goes to

trial. The autopsy report that could hold all of the answers as to how these girls were killed and whether it was Chris Watts who did all the

killing.

BANFIELD: Joining me now crime journalist Pat Lalama. Pat, this was a real surprise to see the prosecution looking to make sure the autopsies

didn`t go public. And not just now, not just for a few weeks, all the way until trial. Why did they do this?

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Well, my guess is, in this case, if they feel that the information about the results of the autopsies is so

pertinent and critical to getting a conviction in their case, they don`t want to take any chances and as an observer and a media -- I mean as a

media person, we`d like to know, as an observer and I can understand why.

BANFIELD: But what about the notion of interviewing witnesses. Does it give you an idea that maybe they aren`t as far along as we thought they

might be?

LALAMA: No, I read perhaps more the opposite. It said they were afraid that the release of the information could taint witnesses who have not yet

been interviewed and, of course, a potential jury pull. Maybe there are people they are setting their sites on potential witnesses that they

haven`t spoken to, and I think in fairness to their investigation, they have every right to cross the T`s, dot the I`s and keep it shut at this

point.

BANFIELD: Jeffrey Gold, Defense Attorney does this sound to you like they are so worried about what the details are in that autopsy that they

absolutely can`t have people out there that they still have to witness, knowing what they know?

JEFFREY GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: well, I mean, maybe. They have to give it to the defense pretty soon, you know --

BANFIELD: They haven`t yet.

GOLD: But they need to when they give discovery. So there may be a short window of people they do need to interview. I think it`s more likely than

the taint of the jury, because they haven`t made a motion, you know, as to the defense because when the defense gets it, they can do what they want

with it, unless there is such a motion.

BANFIELD: they`re absolutely saying in writing that releasing this would "result in tainting witnesses that have not yet been interviewed."

Jeffrey, what kind of witnesses would be tainted by how these people died other than Chris himself?

GOLD: Well, I mean we don`t know. We don`t know what`s in that autopsy report. If we knew what`s in there we might guess the witnesses. But I do

agree with the witnesses. I do agree with what Pat said, they may not be as far along in this investigation as we thought.

BANFIELD: Pat, the other issue. And we just brought this out from one of the motions last week and that was that the prosecutors wanted cheek swabs.

The prosecutors wanted handprints and fingerprints.

LALAMA: Right.

BANFIELD: And prosecutors wanted photographs of that being done to the hands. I mean they wanted it so airtight that even the fingerprints and

the palm prints had to be photographed while being actually executed in those photographs. They called them Polaroid`s, you know, harkening back

to the day where they probably were Polaroid`s. They wanted them clipped to the file as the file was being completed right there in front. So that

they`ll be no chain of custody issues. How did Chris Watts respond to that?

LALAMA: Well, I happen to have it here. According to Chris Watts -- I can`t wait to hear the attorneys dissect this one. He claims -- he cites

the fourth amendment search and seizure. He says there`s no probable cause, no reason why he should have to do this, he hasn`t seen a page of

discovery and, therefore, he says he doesn`t have to do this.

BANFIELD: That`s crazy, because as I recall the fourth amendment, you know, from the top of my head, it`s unreasonable search and seizure.

LALAMA: Right. Right.

BANFIELD: And what is unreasonable about a guy who`s wanted for trial on three different murder charges, two murder one case for you know position

of trust and then a battery of other charges. Nine felony counts against this guy. Jeffrey, go jumping here, you`re the lawyer. Unreasonable

search and seizure, I understand. How unreasonable is it to ask a guy who`s in solitary for murder charges for his palm prints and cheek swabs.

GOLD: Now these exemplars are all routine. All the swabs are routine. There`s no Fifth Amendment right. They don`t need much at all. They have

enough to ask for it, so it`s going to be.

BANFIELD: What is this? Is there a defense attorney trying to make hey and make it difficult, to make it expensive for a prosecutor.

GOLD: I don`t know about expensive. Just to object. That`s all, to object to object. They`re not going to win. They`re going to get the swabs.

They`re going to get any kind of exemplars they want in this situation. It would be different if there was no probably cause for the offense. But

obviously there is.

BANFIELD: Kyle Pelts, you`re sitting aside Jeffrey Gold, and Kyle has been working on this case. You`re a crime and justice producer, but honestly

you`re a document demon. I have not seen somebody comb through the documents like you have in this case. You have been instrumental in getting

many of them actually posted from the request from the conversations you`ve had with the court which means you`ve had to read them very fast. And

there`s been sort of a snowstorm of them lately.

Something you noticed about the media interest in the case. Give me a bit of a feel for what you`re seeing in terms of this fight Chris has been

having to shut down leaks?

KYLE PELTS, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right. We knew Chris wasn`t happy about some of the information coming out in the media. He`s think

someone in law enforcement was leaking this information. And he actually asked the judge to order a massive investigation into who is doing this.

And today the court just released a handful more documents where the judge slapped down that request and said, no, we`re not launching an

investigation.

BANFIELD: No I think you were either on the set or really close by when we broke the news about his conditions in solitary, under suicide watch. He

has no reading material in his cell. But he is allowed to look at a communal newspaper or a couple newspapers in the hour out room. That`s the

room where you get do spend the one hour of your 24 out in another room and on the table there are some newspapers so Chris Watts Has access to news in

that respect.

He doesn`t have access to television at all. But he seems to know his attorney seems to know what has been leaked. And he put it down on paper.

He listed what he`s angry with.

PELTS: He did. You would think that hour out room that he has access to maybe subscribes to People Magazine, because People Magazine comes up

frequently in his documents. He`s not happy about the information they`re getting from law enforcement.

BANDFIELD: He`s actually quoting them, isn`t he?

PELTS: He quotes quite a few People Magazine issues here.

BANDFIELD: I remember one of the first things that People Magazine came out with was that he showed no emotion while he was being booked. And he

cited that.

PELTS: He cited that. And I think that was one of the first things he cited. There was another people article, and I`m reading here, because

People has broken a lot of news and Chris Watts isn`t happy about it where a source apparently says there`s no evidence Shanann killed the kids. And

People Magazine even had some sources saying there`s evidence Chris had been thinking about this for some time. Down to the evidence found in

Chris` truck.

BANDFIELD: So last week we broke that story. We didn`t break the story. We told what had been broken on that story, again from People Magazine.

They have an impeccable source it seems about the evidence from the truck, and he cites the evidence. What did he say, exactly?

PELTS: The article that cites the evidence in the truck, Chris puts that in one of his documents. And he also mentions the evidence found in the

bedding, clothes, computers, phones. The text messages, search histories. Him and his defense team aren`t happy with this information getting out

there.

BANDFIELD: They listed it all out in their motions to --

PELTS: They mention that whole document.

BANDFIELD: And what did the judge ultimately say about this demand from Chris Watts to investigate the entire defense. I mean, from every police

department that touched the case to the prosecutors office to the sheriff`s department to the jailer, what was the judge`s response to Mr. Christopher

Watts?

PELTS: That it`s not happening. That`s not what prosecutors do.

BANDFIELD: The hell with you is what he said.

PELTS: Exactly.

BANDFIELD: To hell with you. We`re not doing it. We`re not doing your massive government investigation that you`ve asked for, so that`s it.

That`s the end of that.

PELTS: Well Chris is fighting back. He`s asking the judge now to reconsider that. No word on if the judge has ruled on that yet.

BANDFIELD: OK. So one of the big questions I would have is that there`s been a lot of news, including on this program broken about his sexual

predilections prior to these alleged murders, right? Because what are the things you look for when there`s a wife and children murdered and it`s out

of the blue, and uncharacteristic, you wonder about the affairs. Well some of the news broke about the affair at work, that was in the affidavit. And

then the other affairs that came from this program and People Magazine. Did he complain about those?

PELTS: No, and that`s the one thing that an article does not mention that Chris cites in his court documents. None of these people articles, none of

these other local news articles that Chris takes issue with mention anything about extra marital affairs other than the one police say was

going on with someone at work.

BANFIELD: Yes, so it goes without saying that some of the most lurid parts of the investigation so far have been that there were male and female

lovers, and not just one or two. There were more. And not -- I said you were the document demon, because I know you went over every inch of these

documents. You went over every inch of the complaints that Chris Watts had to the court about the coverage, about the media coverage. Ours included.

Not one mention about the men and women he`s been seeing.

PELTS: Pretty much every People article that came out, Chris Watts has been telling the judge hey look another leak, another leak. I mean almost

as he`s reading it real time. But in the course of all of these articles coming out, there was an article by People Magazine mentioning

relationships with both men and women and Chris watts does not mention that article at all.

BANFIELD: There was a man on this program that alleged to have a 10-month affair with him as well and he didn`t have any complaints about that. Not

one mentioned in all documents. Has he been given discovery because that`s a big part of this?

PELTS: Well as of two weeks ago, his defense team says they haven`t seen a single page of discovery.

BANFIELD: Wow. Not a single -- Jeff, is that weird? We`re a month into this.

GOLD: No. No. The have -- they have more time to do that. He`s not being --

BANFIELD: Not a single page?

GOLD: He`s not being -- he`s not being arraigned yet.

BANFIELD: Yes.

GOLD: So they have time to do that. I would just want to mention on -- the reason why it`s about the government, the state in this case is because

he may have a motion, forget about the investigation. He`ll never get the investigation, he can have an emotion to dismiss the case if he can prove

the state was selectively leaking things to taint the jury, that`s where it goes legally. This stuff about the investigation was over the top.

BANDFIELD: Well, that`s -- listen, everything about this cases is over the top. And I think it`s because nothing about this case makes sense. You

don`t typically have an accused family annihilator, with a background like Chris Watts, with a wife like Chris Watts, with children like Chris Watts,

with Facebook pages like Chris Watts.

A guy like this who everybody -- I mean, literally everyone who we`ve contacted has said, this was not the guy. And who do you think might know

him best? Who do you think might know the guy before this news broke other than the dead people?

It might be the people who lived with him. It might be his roommate. It might be the man who knew Chris when. And after the break, he`s going to

speak with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANDFIELD: Character is everything, isn`t it? Especially when you want someone to believe you. Character is what makes the man. Many people have

said it over and over again. So character often comes into question especially when you`re charged with three murders, the three murders of

your own family.

So what kind of character is this man, Chris Watts? What kind of character does he have? And has his character changed over time? Or was something

strange long ago. Hard to know when you talk to those who knew him when. Richard Hodges knew him when.

He was Chris Watts roommate in Warsaw, North Carolina where they attended classes together at the NASCAR technical institute and he joins me now

live. Richard, thank you for being with us tonight.

First and foremost, may I say to you I am sorry for what you have discovered is now a part of your life. That a person you knew well has

come into this kind of crime story and maybe responsible for this kind of Crime story. The biggest question so many people have is what kind of

person is the Chris Watts you lived with?

RICHARD HODGES, CHRIS WATT FMR. ROOMMATE: Well I mean I kind of hate to echo, what a lot of people have said before, but Chris was one of those

people at least when I knew him. He was straight as an arrow. He was very dedicated to school. He was very dedicated to his work.

I believe that one of his ex-high schoolteachers said he was that most likely to succeed, and he was. You know he wasn`t the kind of guy that

went out and partied all the time, a lot of the guys did. You know they went out every night and Chris was not like that.

He was more all right, this is school. This is my future. This is what I`m going to do about he worked hard at it, and he graduated with honors

and everything. So it is very strange to see someone like him somehow transform into what we see today.

BANDFIELD: If in fact he is guilty of these crimes, he is a monster. And I can`t imagine what this is like for you to process. What are you

thinking about as you start to understand what`s happened in Colorado?

HODGES: For me personally, I can`t say it`s affected me personally I can`t say that it really has affected me personally. It`s not I`ve -- it`s

not like I now sit there and think well wow, I may be was danger back in the day.

You know I`ve never -- I`ve never had that thought enter my mind. There was never anything in his past that would have alerted me in anyway shape

or form to this kind of behavior. So I mean it`s definitely gotten a lot of us who have not talked to each other in a long time talking. A lot of my

fellow classmates, we`ve all started talking on and were all on the same page. No one gets it.

Everyone is kind of like, this came from left field. This isn`t who we knew. You know we don`t know what to make of it. So I mean that`s how it

makes me feel. It`s just -- it`s very confusing and its very inquisiting as to, what could have caused Chris to go from the person I knew to the

person we`ve seen.

BANDFIELD: So I mean you went to school together 2004. That`s only 14 years ago. Did you stay in touch with Chris Watts, were you Facebook

friends the last decade and a half?

HODGES: We were not. So after we finished school, we both worked together at the same dealership. And then after that, I shortly realized that

automotive was just not my cup of tea. I was very good at in school. But not in practice.

So I actually chose a different career path and need to move. And when I did I ended up having to move. Once I moved just over time we just -- I

mean we were buddies. But we weren`t like great, great friends. So we just eventually lost communication.

So I`d say the last time we spoke to each other was probably around 2005. That was probably about it. And Facebook wasn`t really popular back then

either. So we weren`t Facebook friends or anything like that. I just kind of lost all communication with him.

BANDFIELD: What about the rest of the friends? I`m so fascinated to hear you say you`ve all reconnected over this, because it`s just so jarring.

It`s so unexpected and it`s a bit earth shattering to be connected to someone who`s being accused of the things that Chris Watts is accused of.

Did your friends mention anything about staying in touch with him? The friends that you all knew together at one point?

HODGES: No. I would say out of everyone in the group. I was probably the most connected to Watts. We had like a little click when we all went to

school, a little group that hung out. But out of everybody I was probably the person who was the most I guess bonded to him, you know, if that`s the

proper way of wording it. So no, once we all left school, I mean it`s not like we just didn`t care about each other, but just over time -- I only

kept in touch with a very select few you know and that`s how everybody was so to my knowledge now.

BANDFIELD: And it also -- Richard it sounds almost like, and correct me if I`m wrong. It sounds like nobody really stayed close to him. And does

that speak a little to his character, to his personality, was he a loner? Did he move off and leave his old life behind?

HODGES: So Chris was -- he was quiet. He was pretty reserved, but not in a negative fashion. He was more of the kind of guy who`s just going to walk

up to you and introduce himself and try to make friends. He was more the kind of who you become friends with out of like happenstance.

We were obviously friends because we were in classes together. And that`s how we ended up meeting. He very, very rarely went out with us. So maybe

that contributed to it. You know he wasn`t as tight knit with anybody else. But he was pretty shy, very reserved. Like I said very dedicated to

what he was doing at the time and very hard on himself. He wanted to get those good grades. He wanted to do well. So he would never do anything

that would jeopardize that like partying or going drinking like some of the others may have.

BANDFIELD: So you`re -- I think it`s your mom who may have saved your graduation program from back in 2004?

HODGES: She did.

BANDFIELD: God bless her. I`m not sure if we have an image of it. I`d like to put it up because I think it shows something that`s fascinating

about Chris Watts. There`re you on the left hand column, Richard A. Hodges. And then Chris is on the right hand column. You see all those

characters afterwards like a diamond an asterisk, an A, B, K. Those all indicate accolades, excellence in attendance, the director -- not just

excellence. Perfection. Perfect attendance, Director`s honors list, a nomination to the Alpha Beta Kappa society. I also noticed Richard, no

one in your class had the number of accolades that he did. He had them all. He kind of won every category about.

HODGES: Yes. He was -- he was very dedicated. Like I said, he was very strict, he would go to school like in the mornings, when he got off, he

would go to the dealer ship and work. After that, it was study time, for leisure he would watch either TV and sports. He was real big into NASCAR,

obviously.

He was very physically fit you know when we were going to school together. I know that some of the video I`ve seen, he had kind of dropped off a

little bit and then got physically fit again. But back when he was with us, he was pretty, you know, beefed up, worked out pretty consistently.

And that`s all he did. Like is said the party life was not for him. It was all about school and doing well.

BANDFIELD: So that leads me to another area that I think is fascinating about this case. The fact that he was beefed up and fit. He certainly

wasn`t at the time he was doing videos about sort of self-help and relationship help and talking about how relationships can go south

especially when you meet someone at work lo and behold he met someone at work according to the police and was having an affair with her prior to

these alleged murders. But the dating issue, if he was taking care of himself, and working out and keeping fit.

Did you have any information or see him ever dating anyone male or female?

HODGES: I did not. I cannot remember a single solitary incident where he was ever trying to actively engage in any kind of relationship. He was

very kept to himself. Very focused on what he did. And was pretty much if.

I mean, he never brought anybody over. He definitely wasn`t sneaking out, you know, and going and meeting anybody. So no, back then, it was just

him. It was him and what he was engaged in, and that was just school and his work.

BANDFIELD: So was that because you know the study regiment was heavy? I mean, there`s all sorts of reasons people don`t date, if they`re terribly

busy at work or overwhelmed with school. Was that the reason or did you find it odd that he had no relationships one way or the other?

HODGES: No, I mean the work load wasn`t real bad. And also, he was very good at what he did. He was good at working on cars. That was one of his

natural talents. So it wasn`t like that. But I think he was more of a perfectionist. I think that he was very, very focused on getting as good

of a grade as he could.

And so he just focused on that. But on the same coin I think it was more of that reserved personality that kind prevented him from going out and

meeting people. You know he very rarely went out with us, you know, when we went out. So I don`t think he --

BANDFIELD: And if he did -- Richard, if he did go out with you say to some of the bars or pubs around town. What was he like in that kind of a

setting?

HODGES: Social with us, but not anyone else. You know like I said he wasn`t the guy that would walk up and introduce himself and say, hey, I`m

Chris Watts. When he knew you and he was friends with you like he was with us, he was a lot more laid back. You know he`d crack up a laugh with you,

and everything like normal. You know nothing out of the ordinary.

But he wasn`t a -- he problem didn`t like large groups. I would say he probably wasn`t a big fan of large groups. That`s probably why he didn`t

go to the house parties and stuff like that. He eventually did as the school year was coming to an end and we were graduating, he did go to a

house party. But even then he was just having a good time, not trying to actively engage with all sorts of people he didn`t know.

BANDFIELD: Yet, were there all sorts of women interested in him?

HODGES: If there were, I didn`t know. There were a few at the school, but none that I am aware of. No.

BANDFIELD: Do you have any recollection Richard at all of Chris being impulsive? Acting in an unusual way when he wanted something? Or when

circumstances were out of the norm?

HODGES: No. He was pretty -- he was pretty strict. He had his routine and that`s what he stuck to. I wouldn`t say he was impulsive or anything

like that. In terms of his attitude he would get down on himself once in a while. That was more of him pushing himself to do better in school. It

was never like anger towards anything. I can`t even remember him ever being mad about anything.

BANDFIELD: Wow.

HODGES: He just wasn`t that kind of guy. He was very mellow. If you watch like his interview and he`s kind of emotionless a little bit. That`s

Chris. That`s just how he was.

BANDFIELD: So I think Richard this story is so gripping, because none of it makes sense, and everything that you`ve just told me adds to this. It

doesn`t make sense. And I`m just curious if you are troubled in an extreme way by what has transpired with this young man that you used to live with?

HODGES: I think in my opinion, the biggest lesson from this whole situation is you think you know someone, but you really don`t. There`s

always going to be people that are going to have skeletons in their closets that they hide very well. I mean, this is a perfect example of someone who

we knew was going to be out there doing what he needs to do. When I saw the Facebook posts and I saw like him with his family, I mean, it made

sense to me, you know, that that`s Chris, you know, that he was out there being, you know, very -- how do you want to say -- yes, successful at life.

You know, having a good family. He had a nice house. Now, I`m just saying he had a lot of debt --

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Didn`t take him seriously, didn`t he?

HODGES: Yes. And he had a lot of debt, but I didn`t know that, but --

BANFIELD: Can I -- can I ask you, and this is an odd question, but since you have this, you know, tangential connection to Chris Watts, would you

ever want to reach out to him now to satisfy the why in all of this?

HODGES: Not me, personally. I mean, if that`s something where like psychologists or whoever, psychiatrist, you know, they dig into it and they

find more of a reason. I mean, I`d always be interested in it, but me as a person wanting to reach out and actually speak to him? No. No, I don`t

really -- I don`t really have a care, or a need, or a desire for that kind of contact. I mean, what`s happened has happened. Obviously, I think it

will all come out, you know, eventually. And I`ll just wait, you know, like everybody else and kind of see how this develops.

BANFIELD: Has anyone contacted you from -- well, from either the prosecution or the defense quite frankly in this case?

HODGES: No. I guess I`m kind of like a sleeper, per se. Not many people know about the fact that me and him were associated. Actually, you guys

found me through happenstance looking into his past and you found someone who actually works with me by the same name. But isn`t obviously this

Chris Watts. But they knew when they were contacted by you guys, that I knew him and I actually lived with him, and that`s how we ended up getting

connected, so .

BANFIELD: Well, it`s entirely possible you may end up being connected to the case in another way. And if that`s the case, I am sorry for you

because this is -- it is just an inexplicable tragedy, and there is a family that is so unbearably heart broken, I dare say two families that are

heart broken. And a domino effect of people who are devastated by the loss of these little girls and by Shanann Watts. I thank you so much, Richard,

for taking the time to help us figure this out. I can`t say that you did. I mean, honestly, I think I`m even more puzzled after speaking with you.

But I really appreciate you giving us that picture.

HODGES: Not a problem. I appreciate it, thank you, ma`am.

BANFIELD: Richard Hodges, Chris Watts` former roommate from Morrisville, North Carolina at the NASCAR Technical Institute. And if you feel the same

way I do, then maybe some of the stuff we`re about to report on may help you answer some questions. That`s next.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time your client goes on video and says something like that, and then the evidence totally contradicts it.

CHRIS WATTS, MURDER SUSPECT: I don`t know where my kids are. I don`t know where Shanann is.

BANFIELD: He lied to all of us, why are we to expect for a moment he`s not going to lie to the police?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dead body gives off different smells.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think it`s possible the dogs may be able to detect it, the smell of the dead woman and her two daughters inside the house and

alerted investigators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believed him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did. I mean, we feel so stupid about that now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: They say one man`s trash is another man`s treasure. The question tonight is whether Chris Watts` trash was treasure for police?

For those investigators who showed up on Saratoga Trail to search the home for evidence after Chris Watts was carted off in handcuffs, what clues may

have been carted off his property that had been in one of the big blue bins scheduled for pickup? It`s a big question. And Art Roderick is the former

assistant director of U.S. Marshalls and a CNN Law Enforcement Analyst. The trash is important, it`s not insignificant. Give me a bit of a feel

for what investigators do when they see trash pickup outside the end of your driveway when three people are missing?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I mean, I`ve done in my career, several, what we call, "trash pulls." Trash pulls are a common

thing that law enforcement will do to gather evidence. You`d be surprised what people throw away in their trash. And I think in this particular case

here, you know, you have the bed sheet issue that was found out by the oilfield there, by the oil tanks. So, there`s -- I`m pretty sure that they

probably did a trash pull that Tuesday morning to see what he`s throwing away and what he`s trying to clean up at that particular point in time.

BANFIELD: OK. Good point. Good point. So, I`m going to give you a timeline and I want you to help me through it. The pictures we`re seeing

are actually from two days past that Monday, right, when the -- when the disappearance is announced to everybody. He`s on the porch saying,

somebody help me find my wife and two children. So, that happens on Monday, the 13th. Tuesday, August 14th at 7:00 a.m., that`s when trash was

scheduled for pickup, OK?

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: And it was that night he stayed at the Thayer`s home, OK?

RODERICK: Yes. Right.

[19:40:02] BANFIELD: So, he wasn`t staying at his home on Tuesday night, but he was staying at his home the night before, the night before trash

pickup. By Wednesday, August the 15th, he`s arrested and they`re combing that house and taking all those giant trash bags out, evidence bags.

They`re not trash in those trash bags, those are evidence bags. But think about this, Art, for a second, OK? Monday, he`s on the porch saying, help

me, help me. But he stays in the house Monday night.

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: Why on earth was that not a crime scene? There were three missing people, there were strange things, maybe not criminally strange,

but strange things in the house, right?

RODERICK: Right, that`s the key part, yes.

BANFIELD: All the bed sheets were pulled off the master bed, and clumped onto the -- onto the bedroom floor. We`re not sure that the trash, the

kitchen trash contained the sheets that day.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: Do you think actually they may have contained the trash -- the kitchen trash may have contained the sheets two days later when they

arrested him? But why wasn`t it a crime scene Monday night? He may have had -- if he`s guilty, he may have had 48 hours to clean up everything in

that house.

RODERICK: He very well could have. I mean, we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight at this point. Ashleigh, I think we`ve got to go back and look

at the initial timeline on that Monday when she fails to show up for the doctor`s appointment at 10:00 a.m., that`s when her friend calls in, and

law enforcement does what they always do, they did a welfare check, not knowing if any crime had been committed at that time. And that`s really

what it kicked off. So, they didn`t have any major evidence that a crime had been committed, probably until the next day when they really started

looking into it, and started interviewing him, and actually watched that interview that he did with the -- with the local news station there. So,

welfare checks are --

BANFIELD: So, hang on a second. You know --

RODERICK: Go ahead.

BANFIELD: -- welfare checks are one thing, but I want to talk to Jeff Gold in here for a second. What probable cause does somebody need to shut down

a site like that home, when three people are missing, everything is locked up tight from the inside? OK, there`s no breach, there`s nothing, but

three people are missing, including two children. And bed sheets are all askew, and the guy is on the porch acting weird. What kind of probable

cause do you need to say, Mr. Watts, you can`t stay here tonight, it`s a crime scene?

JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it probably wasn`t at the time because people go missing, women go missing, and they take their kids, they

leave. So, you know, you have to have a little bit more, which I think they had by the next day. So, I`m not going to fault the police yet for

it, because that`s what happens, people leave.

BANFIELD: He told two different stories to the officers that arrived. One, he said he got up at 4:00, the other one he was up at 5:00.

GOLD: I get you. But I don`t know that we can fault the police quite yet, because people leave. And that`s --

BANFIELD: I don`t mean it`s a fault. All I say is what probable cause do you need to say, Mr. Watts, we`re going to find your family. But in the

meantime, any criminal who came in and stole them, we want to protect the scene.

GOLD: Well, you need probable cause of crime committed that somebody was kidnapped or killed, or assaulted, or something.

BANFIELD: Her phone, her keys, her medicine, her carseats, he car -- everything is locked up in that house.

GOLD: Right. It`s -- I think that first night, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

BANFIELD: Could have been the most critical night for evidence.

GOLD: You just don`t know.

BANFIELD: Could have been. All right. So, we delved in to a lot of theories surrounding this particular case, this particular family, but what

about money? Could that have been a driving factor in the murder of Shanann Watts and her daughter? We`re going to tackle that.

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: I believe that everything in life happens for a reason.

How many babies do I have in my belly?

BELLA WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Five.

S. WATTS: Whoa!

C. WATTS: Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did these three people die?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to hug the girls one last time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in jail right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not doing well at all. And depression is setting in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew something was wrong, but I didn`t know what?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There are so many things that are mystifying about this story. And there are so many missing pieces of this puzzle. And perhaps that is

why it is so mystifying because we`re waiting for those pieces to get filled in, but we`re starting to make some guesses as to what might be

those missing pieces. And the bed sheets are a big part of this story. Jeffrey Gold, I want you to come back into this story along with Art

Roderick. When the police showed up on Monday morning, ostensibly, there`s a missing person`s case. They did a check of the house, and actually Kyle

Peltz, I know you`ve got the documents in front of you. The warrantless affidavit said they found bed sheet clumped up on the bedroom floor that

very morning, about noon or a little bit after noon. Bed sheets from the master bed clumped up, correct? But they didn`t say what sheet.

KYLE PELTZ, HLN CRIME & JUSTICE PRODUCER: Right. We know two officers arrived that day for the welfare check. When they get there, they find the

master bedroom bed stripped of its bedding on the floor. Now, they do say they checked that bedding and found no signs of foul play.

BANFIELD: But they didn`t count the pieces of the bedding, did they?

PELTZ: It`s not in the document, yes.

BANFIELD: OK. So, what`s interesting is later in the document, Jeffrey says they eventually and they don`t say when, but they eventually find

three pieces of bedding in the kitchen trash, two pillowcases and a top sheet. It appears there`s no fitted sheet, but we do that a matching sheet

to that set is found out in the oilfield.

[19:49:59] So, is it wrong to extrapolate here to say since they didn`t give us this timeline of when those two set of sheets are found, that

perhaps if he`s guilty, he may have used the fitted sheet from the master bed to wrap one of the bodies, I doubt all three, for burial, because one

body, Shanann`s, was found in the shallow grave. And then, eventually, once the police left and he was able to stay in that house on Monday night,

he realized, damn it, I have an incomplete set of sheets, and I know that the completed set is out on that field. I`m in big trouble if they ever

find that sheet out in the field and they find these sheets in my house. I think I`ll put them in the kitchen trash and eventually get rid of them.

GOLD: I mean, that`s very logical, and if a prosecutor never knows for sure, it`s a great theory for him to tell a jury, because -- or her,

because it makes sense. What you`ve decided here makes a lot of sense.

BANFIELD: So, Art Roderick, as a detective, what do you think? I mean, look, is this -- is this something that would make a lot of sense in terms

of why? They haven`t given us the timeline in the affidavit, they have not told us when the sheets were found in the kitchen trash, but they did tell

us the clumped up sheets, you know, and perhaps an incomplete set, we don`t know, were on the bedroom floor. But we do know it was an incomplete set

found in the kitchen trash.

RODERICK: Yes, Ashleigh, they haven`t given us a lot of information. There`s a lot of blanks here when you look at this whole complete timeline,

I think at this particular point in time, law enforcement has all of the forensic stuff they need from the crime scene, both at the oil field and

back at the house and the truck, the garbage. But now, I think what they`re trying to do is come up with motive. And this is where we`re

getting into all these different people that they`ve got to go out and interview all the people he was having affairs with, what his private

digital footprint looked like. Has he talked about possibly doing away with his family members, so --

BANFIELD: I`m still focused on the sheets, though, because honest to God, I did not figure out until tonight why there were sheets on the master

bedroom floor and there were sheets in the kitchen trash, but now I`m realizing we were never told that these were found at the same time.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: So, hold on for a second.

RODERICK: Sure.

BANFIELD: Pat Lalama, I have a question from Jessica Hudson on Facebook. We`ve been getting amazing questions from our Facebook viewers, she said

this, "Do you think Chris Watts is being honest with his legal team?" And I know because you`ve covered so much crime, this actually is a problem.

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: Of course, it`s a problem, especially if there`s some wiring snafu up there in his brain. You know, you keep -- we

all keep talking about how it`s just on the surface, oh, my gosh, what a loving, beautiful family. I`m not so sure, Ashleigh. I was -- every time

I`m on your show, I keep bringing another piece of my own little Lalamalian (ph) puzzle together. We`re looking at people who had severe financial

problems. Where are his close friends now? Mr. Hodges was wonderful, but that was a long time ago. Where are his close friends? Where is his close

family? He allegedly has this sexual identity problem. I don`t hear from his family saying we support our son. This is a guy who had dreams of

being in the racecar business. Why isn`t he doing anything like that? I think there`s something inside we don`t know about and we`re going to find

out.

BANFIELD: I`m with you, I`m fascinated that there`s so much silence all around this case. It`s more silent than most other cases I`ve covered.

But you just gave me an idea, Pat Lalama, thank you for that. You said that Mr. Hodges did a wonderful job of telling us all about Chris, where

are his friends now? I want to get Mr. Hodges back on the line. Because after the break, I actually want to show him that interview that he did on

the porch, telling everybody, lying through his teeth, help me find my family. And I want to ask Mr. Hodges, if this is the Chris Watts, this guy

today, if this is the Chris Watts he remembers.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Di you guys get into an argument before she left?

C. WATTS: It wasn`t -- it wasn`t like an argument. We had an emotional conversation, but I`ll leave it at that. But it`s -- I just want them

back. I just -- I just want them to come back. And if they`re not safe right now, that`s what`s -- that`s what`s tearing me apart, because if they

are safe, they`re coming back. But if they`re not, this has got to stop, like somebody has to come forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s a lying performance for the record books, Chris Watts, on the porch of his house, to every cameraman who would come by, saying help

me find my family. When only days later, police say he admitted to having buried them. So, it got me thinking, is that the man that Richard Hodges

remembers? That demeanor on the porch? And we got Richard back up to answer that question. Richard, you probably saw that and cringed, but is

that the man you remember?

HODGES: So, in terms of the way he presented himself, the fact that he kind of had his arms crossed, the nervous rocking, that would seem pretty

typical, because he was a shy-natured kind of guy. The part that strikes me odd would be the laugh. That was a little, you know, creep-ish. But he

was --

BANFIELD: Did he ever lie to you when you knew him, when you were roommates, did -- was he ever known to lie?

HODGES: No. I mean, I don`t have any references, no.

BANFIELD: Fascinating. Richard, I had to get you back for that. It was something that we all thought of as we said goodbye to you earlier. And

I`d like to ask you back on the show another time. I hope you`ll just us again.

HODGES: Thank you, ma`am.

BANFIELD: And thank you, everyone. "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.

END