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Kavanaugh Accuser May Testify; Democratic Senators Accept Letter of Support; Interview with Sen. Patrick Leahy. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 20, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, the clock is ticking on the political cliff hanger surrounding Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court nomination. Christine Blasey Ford, who accuses Kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her back in the 1980s, now faces a deadline. And a source says she hasn't closed the door on testifying. The Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley has given Ford until tomorrow to decide and Grassley has rejected her call for an FBI investigation first. In a letter to Ford, he says, and I'm quoting him now, the Constitution assigns the Senate and only the Senate with the task of advising the president on his nominee and consenting to the nomination if the circumstances merit. We have no power to commandeer an executive branch agency into conducting our due diligence, closed quote.

Let's bring in CNN's senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju, and our White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Manu, so what are you hearing right now, the very latest about whether or not Ford will be willing to testify Monday morning.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, both sides expect that it's possible that she could very well come on Monday, but both sides, Republicans and Democrats, will tell you they just don't know exactly what will happen before Chuck Grassley's Friday deadline for her attorneys to respond to that offer to testify on Monday.

But one thing is very clear, Republicans are rejecting the demands by Democrats and Ford's attorneys to set some conditions or limits or even delay the hearing on Monday. One of the things that Ford's attorneys raised last night was to bring in outside witnesses to testify, to help corroborate her story and to allow the senators to assess what she's saying.

But I just spoke to Senator John Cornyn, the majority whip, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee. He told me very clearly that they would not allow outside witnesses to come in. In his words, he said, we already had a hearing. And he said, when I asked about outside witnesses, he said that's what I call hijacking the regular committee process to accommodate political interests. What we are interested in knowing for her is whether she has credible testimony that this event occurred as she said it did. If she doesn't show up, we don't have that information and we have to proceed without it. And Republicans are being very clear, they want to move forward with a

vote as soon as next week. If she does not apparel on Monday, and in a sign of that confidence I asked the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell if he's confident that Brett Kavanaugh will be confirmed. He said, oh, yeah. So that says -- shows -- tells you a lot how Republicans are feeling at this moment, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, stand by.

Kaitlan, what about over at the White House? What are you hearing about the president's strategy, the White House strategy, how the president has handled this problem, all the problem surrounding the Kavanaugh nomination?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the strategy itself is getting a lot of attention because aides back here in the West Wing are quietly stunned by just how respectful President Trump has been when talking about this woman who has accused his Supreme Court nominee of sexually assaulting her when they were a teenager. Aides really thought on Sunday that when President Trump read that "Washington Post" interview where she first came forward detailing this allegation, that he may have that sense of volcanic anger that we've seen from the president before. And aides and outside advisers were calling the president, cautioning him not to attack the accuser. But the president himself seemed surprised by those calls saying why would I attack the accuser?

And then, of course, Monday, we saw him come forward saying that Christine Blasey Ford should come forward, tell her story and testify on Capitol Hill on Monday. So aides have been surprised by that.

But President Trump himself has been boasting this week to allies and outside advisers about the positive coverage he's getting in response to the measured response that he's had about these allegations. And aides say they think that that has helped encourage him to continue responding in such a measured way. But also they think that a lot of that restraint, Wolf, has to do with the fact that this allegation isn't made against the president. The president himself, of course, has been accused of sexual assault many times, something that he and his aides here at the White House have denied.

But that's really what we're seeing here, the president defending Brett Kavanaugh but telling people that he believes Brett Kavanaugh should go out and fight for himself in this situation.

But, Wolf, the bottom line here, back at the White House, they are becoming increasingly confident that Judge Kavanaugh could get confirmed. They say that if Christine Blasey Ford doesn't testify on Monday, one aide noted that this whole situation, all of this drama, would probably just be a blip on radar of his Supreme Court legacy.

BLITZER: Are we going to hear from the president later this afternoon?

COLLINS: That's right, the president is going to leave the White House here in a few hours. He's going to Las Vegas for a rally tonight. Of course, Wolf, you know those rallies are where the president is often not very script and not usually on topic sometimes. And he's often in a room full of supporter who are chanting and cheering him on. So we could hear maybe a change in tone there, but right now aides are saying to expect him to continue with this same message.

[13:05:08] BLITZER: Kaitlan, thanks very much.

Manu, on The Hill, thanks to you as well.

We'll check back with you.

But joining us now from Capitol Hill is the Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy. He's the senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Meaning he's been on the committee for the longest amount of time. He's also one of three committee members who were there during the Clarence Thomas hearings some 27 years ago.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Thank you very much. Good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: So if Professor Ford doesn't testify, senator, does that guarantee that Judge Kavanaugh will in fact be confirmed?

LEAHY: Well, I think that one of the reasons the Republicans have rushed this through in really an unseemly fashion, way beyond anything we've seen before. I mean this -- these are -- this is the same Republican leadership that stalled President Obama's nominee for over a year to the Supreme Court so that they wouldn't have to have a hearing on it. Now they're saying, oh, we have to go immediately within two days, three days, five days. It doesn't pass the giggle test. If they have nothing to hide, why the hurry?

The fact of the matter is, take the time to do it right. A witness deserves to have a background done by real professionals, not by partisan staff members, but by real professionals who are used to dealing with sexual abuse cases.

BLITZER: Well, so what's your assessment though? Let's say she doesn't appear on Monday. The chairman, Chairman Grassley, says there will be a vote probably on Wednesday in the committee and then in the days that follow. I'm sure Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, will call for a vote on the floor, assuming that all 51 Republicans are there. Even if 50 are there, he'll be confirmed -- Kavanaugh will because confirmed because the vice president, as president of the Senate, will cast the tie breaking vote. Where do the -- where is the vote count right now?

LEAHY: You know, it's not so much where the vote count is, but this is a bad mark against the United States Senate in rushing something through, saying whether she's not there. She wants to have a real investigation done.

Now, everybody talks about Anita Hill. A Republican administration said, OK, put everything on pause. We'll have the FBI do a real background on this. Heard from a large number of witnesses, made many of them available to testify before we had a testimony. They want to avoid this.

Supposedly there is an eyewitness to this happening. So far the Republicans have refused to call him forward and put him under oath to talk about it (INAUDIBLE). I don't blame the victim for saying, why are you stacking this? Why can't we have an honest, a truthful discussion of what happened? All they care is to rush it through.

Now, that's going to end up being a real stain on the United States Senate's reputation. It destroys any concept of fairness. And you talk about what the blip on history. As somebody wrote, the one thing, if he is confirmed on this, there will be in every story and biography, this was a man who had accusations against him that were never fully heard.

BLITZER: All right, senator, I want you to stand by. Two of your Democratic colleagues, Senator Hirono and Senator Gillibrand, they're speaking now. They've got a letter from a lot of the students over at Holton-Arms, the private school where she went, where Professor Ford went to school. I want to listen in briefly.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: I have heard from some of my friends who I have known, some of them for many, many years, women, who shared with me their own really painful stories of -- in the case of two of them, they had been raped, and in the case of one of them, she was only 15. And there was an attempted rape on her. And I never heard any of this about these women that I have known for -- in cases many years.

This is what happens. The trauma of this kind of assault is so tremendous. They never talk about it. But to hear these three friends of mine, as well as others who have contacted my office with their stories, brings tears to my eyes and it just goes to show how pervasive this is and how we have not created an environment where women, like Dr. Ford, can come forward and be suspected in a respectful way. And that is not what is happening.

What is happening with this -- with the Judiciary Committee is really, I would call it, a railroad job. And it's totally unfair. The way I portrayed it and describe it is, you have the entire force of the presidency and all of the supporters of Judge Kavanaugh in the Senate, a raid on one side and on the other side you have Dr. Ford, who doesn't even have the benefit an FBI investigation, as we all have called for.

[13:10:17] You know, how unfair is that. And that's why I'm really grateful that the leaders of her school are coming forward. They organized a letter drive to stand with Dr. Ford and they're going to have a few words to say in a couple of minutes. But this is not fair.

I'm counting on the members of the press to point out that this is a fast track. They are totally intent on getting Judge Kavanaugh onto the Supreme Court, come hell or high water. Come hell or high water. You have to ask yourself, why? And why isn't Judge Kavanaugh asking for an FBI investigation if he has nothing to hide? You all should continue to press that point.

So now I want to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should we receive the letter and then (INAUDIBLE) this out.

HIRONO: Well, we could -- sure. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Would you like to come present the letter?

HIRONO: You want to come forward? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like to read it?

HIRONO: Introduce yourselves and read the letter and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can step forward. Sure.

SARAH BURGES (ph): Hi, my name is Sarah Burgess and I'm Holton-Arms Alumni, I'm class of 2005. I'm here today to share a letter which has been signed by over 1,000 Holton alumni in support of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford.

We believe Dr. Blasey Ford and we are so grateful to her for coming forward and sharing her story. As we say in the letter, her experience is consistent with experiences that we have heard and lived and many of us are survivors ourselves.

We are sharing this letter so it can be officially added to the record so the Senate Judiciary Committee can consider it as they make this very important decision.

Dr. Blasey Ford has shown that she is beyond credible. Sexual assault needs to be taken seriously. And there is no way that you can vote on this before we have a thorough and independent investigation.

Once again, most of all, we are so grateful to Dr. Blasey Ford and we hope she knows that we stand with her. Add we are so thankful that she is helping us move towards a world where women can be free from sexual assault and violence.

Thank you.

HIRONO: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, so there you have a letter signed by 1,000 Holton- Arms alumni in support of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford during this uproar, this controversy involving the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the U.S. Supreme Court. Senators Mazie Hirono and Kirsten Gillibrand introducing these alumni from the Holton-Arms school here in the Washington, D.C., suburb of Bethesda, Maryland. A private school. Judge Kavanaugh went to a separate private school, Georgetown Prep, a boy's school. Holton-Arms, a girl's school.

And let's go Senator Leahy's reaction to what we just heard here.

Clearly the Democratic women in the U.S. Senate, they are making a point that, from their perspective, senator, the way this is being treated by the chairman of your committee, Chairman Grassley, is unacceptable.

LEAHY: I don't -- I don't think anybody could say it better than Senator Hirono did. You know, she and I were both prosecutors. As a prosecutor, you know you cannot rush something like this. You have to have people investigate. Not partisan people, but people are real experts in going into this thing. That's what we've asked for. That's what she's asked for. That's what I've asked for. That's what the Democrats on the committee have asked for.

This rush to judgment makes you wonder what else are they trying to hide. The only reason for rushing it is if you don't want other facts to come out. You know, we're talking about a lifetime appointment. An extra week, an extra two weeks to do it right? All Americans are affected by it, not just the Republican leadership in the Senate, but all Americans. Let's take two or three weeks and let's do it right. And let's get it done right.

But the doctor should be heard, but not in a partisan fashion that the Republican leadership has set up. She should be heard in a clear way with a clear investigation. Senator Hirono is absolutely correct and I totally agree with her.

BLITZER: The Republicans clearly are interested in getting Judge Kavanaugh confirmed before the midterm elections on the chance there's a chance the Democrats could become the majority in the Senate. That would derail this nomination presumably. What do you say to that argument, that's why they want this done in the next few days, if not the next few weeks, before the midterm elections?

[13:15:10] LEAHY: That is a bogus -- actually a stupid argument. And it turns its back on the American people. They are going to be in charge -- no matter what happens to this fall's election, they are in charge until noon on January 3rd. They have plenty of time to get it right. Remember, these are the same people that blocked an Obama nominee, one who would have had a solid vote from both Republicans and Democrats. They blocked him for a year. Now they say, oh, no, we only have two or three days, we've got to get this done. Nobody believes that. That is one of the biggest partisan film flam we've heard. I've been on that committee longer than anybody else. I've never seen either Republicans or Democrats try such a partisan stunt. And when you have a woman who's been courageous and has come forward, she ought to at least have due process on this. She is not.

BLITZER: Senator Leahy, thanks so much for joining us.

LEAHY: Thank you.

BLITZER: So as we wait to hear whether or not Christine Blasey Ford will testify on Monday, we're going to go live to her hometown where she lives right now, Palo Alto, California. She's a university professor out there. The community isn't just rallying around her, they're starting to raise money to protect her against death threats and other threats she has received. And later, political gamble as Republicans push for Ford to testify.

Do they risk alienating female voters in this Me Too era. I'll ask a Republican member of the House.

Lots more news coming up. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:08] BLITZER: So will she or won't she? As the woman accusing Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault grapples with the decision of whether to testify to Congress. Her lawyers say she's also dealing with death threats. They've been so serious, so frequent, that she's now been forced to actually leave her home. But her neighbors, they are rallying around her. They've started a Go Fund Me page to help pay for her security and her family's security.

CNN's MJ Lee is joining us from Palo Alto University now, where Professor Ford teaches.

MJ, any sign of Professor Ford as we await word whether or not she will appear here in Washington on Monday?

MJ LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, Wolf, there has been no sign of Christine Blasey Ford really since Sunday when she was identified by name in that "Washington Post" story. And you're absolutely right, that her lawyers say that she has actually had to move out of her house in Palo Alto because she and her family members have received death threats as a result of her sharing her story. Obviously, a very unfortunate result of her decision to do this.

And, you're right, she is a professor at Palo Alto University. Though we are told that she is not actually teaching classes this semester. So no reason to believe that she has actually had to come to campus this week.

I do want to let you know that her family members, including her husband, including some relatives, have actually started to circulate a letter of support for Christine Blasey Ford on social media just a few minutes ago. And I just wanted to read a part of that letter from her family because it gives you some insight into what some of the people closest to her are saying about the ordeal that she is going through.

Let me just read a part of that. It says, we believe that Chrissy has acted bravely by voicing her experiences from the past and we know how difficult this is for her. Chrissy is not someone who chooses to be in the spotlight. We ask that her decision to share a private and difficult recollection be treated seriously and respectfully and we ask that you please make every effort to respect Chrissy's and our family's privacy as this issue is being investigated.

Now, Wolf, as you mentioned, we have also seen, over the last couple of days here in Palo Alto, neighbors and supporters really coming out to rally around her. That Go Fund Me effort that has raised tens of thousands of dollars and also a candlelight vigil on Sunday is expected to be held in the neighborhood to show her that they support her and that they believe her story.

Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, MJ, we'll stay in close touch with you. Thank you very much. Truly awful the fact that there are death threats to this woman.

Let's get some insight from our guests now, our panel, on how this is likely to play out. We have our CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Michael Zeldin is with us, and our chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

It is awful that she has to move out of her home. Her husband and kids have to move out because of death threats. So what's the risk that the Republican chairman, Chuck Grassley, and other Republicans are taking now by effectively giving her this ultimatum, appear on Monday or the vote is going forward?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, it is risky every way you slice this. For Republicans, mostly, but also to a lesser extend for different reasons for Democrats. On the Republican side, I talked to some members of the committee and Republicans even more broadly in elected office who make the argument that the absolute sort of political killer here would have been if they just blew her off completely from the get go and went ahead with the vote, which was supposed to happen in committee today. They didn't do that. They said that they were going to give her an opportunity to come forward.

Now, the question is, whether or not the Republicans can save face and whether that is enough if in fact for whatever reason if we hear presumably by the end of the day, maybe by Grassley's deadline of 10:00 a.m. tomorrow, that, well, there are different things that she wants, conditions, maybe a different day. You know, we'll see what they come forward with.

[13:24:59] And the thing that we're not hearing, but is actually happening, is some of the Republicans, who said publicly that she should have her voice heard, are actually getting a lot of pressure from the right. And when we hear about a lot of the pressure from Democrats, from just women's advocates, from basic humans who think this woman has a right to be heard, but there is a lot of pressure that is out there among and on Republicans who say, enough already. That this is -- that this is at the 11th hour now. Republicans made it the 11th hour by putting this deadline on and that we should move on.

BLITZER: When the chairman of the committee talks of due process, Michael, for this woman, the allegations she has, what's your perspective, what's your understanding of what that means?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, from a legal perspective, leaving the politics of it aside, and this is pregnant with politics, you have an allegation, you have an investigation and then you have testimony, a trial or something. That's the order in which cases proceed legally.

This is a legal allegation. This is a charge of attempted rape. You have the allegation. You should then have an investigation of those facts and then have testimony as required. Putting the apple cart before the horse of having testimony and then if necessary an investigation to me makes no sense from a purely legal standpoint and therefore I think the notion that they're providing her due process, a forum to tell her story, which is already told in written form, without there being an intervening investigation, doesn't make sense to me legally.

BASH: You're right, legally, but, as you said, that this is pregnant with politics and this is about politics, right? And there is no criminal procedure at all.

ZELDIN: There is no criminal procedure.

BASH: And so what's -- and proceeding no -- I mean it's not in any court nowhere for lots of reasons. And so the issue is whether or not these senators on the Republican side have the majority, whether they view it as through the lens of the committee rules and the process there or through the lens of basic legal structure.

ZELDIN: That's right. And this is what we don't know how this plays out politically. My view, of course, as a lawyer is, run it through the ordinary legal process when you have an allegation, investigate it and then determine what should be done. I'm not political, and I therefore don't have an opinion about that, but I think that if they play it safe and legally, they're always better protected down the end from allegations. If this was partisan in its nature and not really fair in its objective outcome.

BLITZER: When people testify before a committee, and you've covered Congress for a long time, Dana, normal -- and Grassley, the chairman, he refers to this normally, their opening statements are submitted the day before -- the business day before. He is suggesting now that if she's going to appear and he is going to appear on Monday, by tomorrow morning or sometime tomorrow, the committee wants to see their statements. Is that -- is that realistic?

BASH: We don't know. Look, we haven't heard. The person holding the cards to answer that question and so many others right now is Christine Ford. I mean she is the who can decide those answers. And my understanding and my impression is that they are -- they understand what Chuck Grassley's deadline is and that they're working to figure out how to answer that in some way, shape, or form. So it's a big open question right now.

And, you know, let's just sort of gain this out and say that there is testimony on Monday or maybe some other day. Then what? She comes out and gives her story. He comes out and gives his story. And then it is going to be, because there is a lack of, you know, basic objective investigations going on behind the scenes, up to the -- the pressure is going to be even harder and more so on these few swing senators, particularly on the Republican side, to decide, who do I believe?

ZELDIN: Right. But to the point of an investigation first before testimony, there are other people who have been identified as having knowledge about the facts here. They're not even scheduled for testimony, no less investigatory steps. So to set it up as a he said/she said this is really unfair as a legal process matter as well when other are other witnesses that could be called.

BLITZER: And I'll just leave it with this thought that if she testifies one thing on Monday in open session, and this is sworn testimony, if she -- if she lies, that's perjury.

ZELDIN: Yes.

BLITZER: If he says something different, if he lies, that's perjury. As a result, if there's two different stories, one of them presumably might be lying and could be subject to then an FBI investigation and then a criminal investigation if, in fact, one of them, under oath, was lying and committed perjury. So that's (INAUDIBLE).

ZELDIN: Exactly.

BASH: Except that it was 35 years ago or 36 years ago, they can say, to the best of my recollection.

BLITZER: But it would be Monday when they were lying, one of them -- if one of them were lying.

ZELDIN: That's right.

BASH: Right. Right.

BLITZER: And that would be a crime. That would be perjury.

ZELDIN: That's right, which is why you investigate and then you take your testimony.

BLITZER: Yes. You'd rather investigate before than after.

ZELDIN: Yes.

BLITZER: All right, guys, everybody stick around. There's more news we're following.

[13:30:02] We're following new developments out of Maryland right now. A shooting at a Rite Aid Distribution Center. Multiple people are dead, others wounded, and a woman suspected of being the shooter, now in critical condition.