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Protests over Kavanaugh as Feinstein Calls for Hearing Delay over New Accusations; Kavanaugh Friends & Supporters Don't Believe Allegations; New Kavanaugh Letter: Wants to Press on with Hearings; Jay Sekulow Says Russia Probe Should Be Stopped & Reviewed Following Rosenstein Controversy; Possible Rosenstein Replacement Has Blaring Conflicts of Interest; Rosenstein to Meet with Trump Thursday. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 24, 2018 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:09] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Right now, sexual assault survivors and supporters are rallying outside the Supreme Court, fighting Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation, which is more uncertain as the days go on. Crowds have been protesting on Capitol Hill all morning as well. Watch this.

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(CHANTING)

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BLITZER: This was the scene outside Republican Senator Susan Collins's office. She certainly is a key vote.

All of this happening as the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Dianne Feinstein, is calling for a delay in Thursday's scheduled hearing after a new woman has come forward with the story of inappropriate sexual behavior involving Judge Kavanaugh when he was in college, a claim he strongly denies. And so far CNN has not spoken to anyone willing to corroborate her story.

Let's go to our congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly, live from Capitol Hill.

Phil, what are you hearing about the status of Thursday's planned testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as it stands, it is still on schedule. You see the intensity of the protesters outside the Supreme Court, making their way through the Senate office buildings. Republican advisers I have been talking to throughout the morning say last night's allegations, which CNN has not confirmed, has served to harden the resolve of Republican leaders. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, I'm told will take to the Senate floor later and lay out in detail why he supports Brett Kavanaugh's nomination. People like Tom Cotton, Senator Lindsey Graham both put out statements alleging character assassination and said a vote needs to happen quickly.

Contrast that with Democrats. You mentioned Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat, calling for a halt to everything. You have the protest with Democratic or liberal groups calling for Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn. Democrats calling for a deeper investigation.

What it comes down to, Wolf, is one Senator you mentioned, Senator Susan Collins, with Senator Lisa Murkowski and Senator Jeff Flake. That, Republican officials tell me, remains the key to everything. How those three go and whether they say yes or no will dictate whether or not Brett Kavanaugh is still a nominee and has a chance to be confirmed. At this point, none of the three have weighed in since the allegations. All of the three said they want a hearing on Thursday and want to hear from Christine Blasey Ford. But those are the three everybody is keying on. In the meantime, it's clear Republicans on Capitol Hill want to continue pressing forward -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All 49 Democrats vote against the confirmation, it's critical. There are 51 Republicans and 49 Democrats. The Republicans can lose one and it will be 50-50 and the vice president, who is the president of the Senate, breaks the tie. If they lose two, it's over, assuming all the Democrats hold firmly in opposition.

Phil Mattingly, we'll get back to you. If you get news, let us know.

Kavanaugh's supporters say the behavior he is accused of is completely out of character. They don't believe the allegations.

Anita McBride is a Kavanaugh friend and supporter. She also served as chief of staff to the first lady at the time Laura Bush. She is here to share insights.

Thanks so much, Anita, for coming in.

ANTIA MCBRIDE, FRIEND OF BRETT KAVANAUGH & FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO LAURA BUSH: Sure, Wolf.

BLITZER: You think this is going to happen at some point? Do you think he might say, you know what, I don't want to put my family through more of this, I don't want to put the Republican Party through more of this, the president through more of this, and simply withdraw?

MCBRIDE: I think he wants to get up there and defend himself, Wolf. I really do. He has been put through a lot. Everybody has been put through a lot. The country has been put through a lot.

I understand that women on Capitol Hill are fighting for their rights and they have every right to do that. We also need to turn down the heat a little bit and look at also what's being affected. The integrity of a process. Who, in their right mind, what good person would want to put themselves through a nomination for anything to go through what we are going through now. This has become a political process and not really a government process.

BLITZER: But if you want to be a U.S. Supreme Court justice --

MCBRIDE: Sure.

BLITZER: -- and he is 53 years old. He can spend 30 or 40 years on the court affecting all sorts of issues involving every American citizen.

MCBRIDE: Sure. Absolutely.

BLITZER: Shouldn't there be a thorough, complete investigation of his entire background?

MCBRIDE: And there was in order to be nominated.

BLITZER: But the charges have come forward. Shouldn't the charges from the women be thoroughly investigated by the FBI or an outside credible source?

MCBRIDE: I think the hearing that will happen supposedly and hopefully on Thursday provides an opportunity to hear from --

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BLITZER: They will hear from her and him.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: They won't hear from the second woman who has just come forward. You saw the article in the "New Yorker." They are not going to hear from others who may have been around. Shouldn't there -- give it a few more days or a few weeks and let all of this be aired out before you force your fellow Republicans to vote on something they may regret?

[13:35:17] MCBRIDE: I have to say, to the recent story, the "New Yorker" story, we haven't heard of anybody yet where that can be corroborated or substantiated. Where was the integrity of the reporting on that when there's no corroboration?

BLITZER: They have a good track record, the two reporters from the "New Yorker" magazine.

MCBRIDE: Sure. Of course. They have a good track record, but in this case, was there any substantiated reports?

BLITZER: Don't you think the Senate Judiciary Committee should check that out before they force Democrats and Republicans to vote on the confirmation?

MCBRIDE: I think that a process should be always in place to make sure that anybody that is up for any appointment, lifetime or not.

But let's go back to the point. There was knowledge of a letter and, obviously, now we know who it is, but it was anonymous at the time, that was in the hands of people who could say because they are on that committee with Senator Feinstein. They could have raised this issue before so it was part of the hearing process, the 36 or 40 hours of testimony that we already had. Why wasn't it then? BLITZER: Senator -- Senator Feinstein makes the point that Christine

Blasey Ford, the professor from Palo Alto, California, asked, please don't get me involved. I just want you to know. Don't mention my name and bring me into this. That was her initial position. Should the position by a United States Senator be honored and respected?

MCBRIDE: Getting to the point you raised, a lifetime appointment of a person that going to be sitting in an open hearing and session where every question from both sides of the aisle can be fired at him at that time. The timing of all this is really concerning to me. For someone who has been through background investigations herself, really, I am worried of what we have done to politicize a process that should be fair, open and transparent.

BLITZER: Anita, stand by for a moment.

Ariane De Vogue, our Supreme Court reporter, is joining us and getting new information.

Ariane, what are you learning?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST & CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: We have a brand-new letter from Brett Kavanaugh to both Chairman Grassley and Feinstein, and he is really wanting to press forward here and clear his name.

I will read you from the letter. He said, "These are smears, pure and simple, and it debases our public discourse. But they are also a threat to any man or woman who wishes to serve our country. Such grotesque and obvious character assassination, if allowed to succeed, will dissuade competent and good people of all political persuasion from service." He says he has devoted his life to serving the public. And he said, "I look forward to answering questions from the Senate on Thursday."

Wolf, we are seeing this is the strongest statement we have ever seen from Kavanaugh. It comes against these allegations brought by Christine Blasey Ford and new allegations that came out over the weekend in another publication. And he is saying that he wants to be there at this hearing on Thursday and clear his name. It's a two-page letter to the Hill.

BLITZER: All right, Ariane, thank you very much.

Anita, very quickly, your immediate reaction?

MCBRIDE: I'm not at all surprised. He has been wanting to defend himself from the minute the first allegation was out there.

BLITZER: You don't think he will dropout?

MCBRIDE: I don't.

BLITZER: OK. We will see what happens between now and Thursday. Lots clearly at stake.

MCBRIDE: On both sides.

BLITZER: Anita, thank you very much for joining us.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

[13:39:06] BLITZER: An attorney for President Trump is calling for a, quote, "time out" on the Mueller probe if Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, resigns.

Plus, a closer look at the man who will oversee the special counsel if that were to happen, and why experts are warning there may be blaring conflicts of interest.

Stay with us.

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BLITZER: We continue to follow breaking news out of the White House. The Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein just arriving at the Department of Justice following a meeting at the White House with chief of staff, John Kelly, earlier in the day. A source said he was expected to be fired at that meeting. The White House announcing shortly after that meeting that Rosenstein will meet with President Trump directly on Thursday when the president returns to Washington from New York.

President Trump's personal attorney, Jay Sekulow, commenting on the possibility of Rosenstein leaving the Department of Justice on his radio show just a few moments ago.

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JAY SEKULOW, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: If, in fact, Rod Rosenstein does end up resigning today because of his statements that he's made, it clearly becomes necessary and inappropriate that whoever the person that's put in charge of this, in other words, whoever becomes the deputy acting attorney general, maybe the solicitor general, Noel Francisco, whoever is actually handling this special counsel enquiry, in light of all of this, I think it's really important that there be a step back taken here and a review. I think it's a review that has to be thorough and complete, and a review that has to include an investigation of what has transpired with all of these statements and all of these allegations going back to Strzok and Page, and Bruce Ohr, and basically a time out on this inquiry.

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[13:45:21] BLITZER: Joining us now, CNN legal analyst, Richard Ben- Veniste, a former Watergate special prosecutor.

Richard, thanks for coming in.

Do you believe Mueller's investigation is in greater jeopardy?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER WATERGATE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: Well, the pause button has been hit at least until Thursday. I don't think Mr. Rosenstein ought to resign. I think he should stay put. He has denied the elements of the "New York Times" story that have him suggesting, whether in jest or otherwise, that the president should be tape recorded to make a confirmable, verifiable case under the 25th Amendment. That raises interesting questions. What if a president were acting so erratically that those close to him suspected he was not capable of performing his job? Would a tape recording of the president be in order? I don't know the answer to that question. But it raises questions about the 25th Amendment and what was in mind.

BLITZER: If Rosenstein leaves, resigns or is fired, what does that mean for the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, who for more than a year now has been publicly humiliated and rebuked by the president?

BEN-VENISTE: I'm sure he will be humiliated and rebuked more. He is not willing to resign either. The question is, if Mr. Rosenstein is fired and whether the solicitor general, Mr. Francisco, will be appointed to take over the responsibilities of supervising Mr. Mueller. To complicate matters even further, the law firm from which Mr. Francisco comes was very much involved in representing the Trump campaign. So the question is whether there's a conflict of interest there.

BLITZER: It's a huge firm. A prestigious firm. You're familiar with the firm.

BEN-VENISTE: Very, yes.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens.

Richard, thanks very much for coming in.

BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.

BLITZER: There's more news we're following. All of this drama unfolding involving the deputy attorney general and the Supreme Court nominee. The president, meanwhile, is at the United Nations for the General Assembly meetings this week saying a second summit with the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, is close. We have details.

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[13:52:16] BLITZER: We're continuing to follow the developments out of the White House right now where the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein wrapped up a meeting with the chief of staff, John Kelly, just a little while ago. Rosenstein is now scheduled to meet with President Trump Thursday, presumably, to discuss his fate over at the Department of Justice.

I want to bring in the veteran journalist, Marvin Kalb. He's written a brand-new become entitled "Enemy of the People: Trump's War on the Press, The New McCarthyism and the Threat to American Democracy."

Marvin, thank you for coming in.

MARVIN KALB, JOURNALIST & AUTHOR: My pleasure. BLITZER: First of all, before we assess the book, your thoughts on

all of the news, the breaking news that's unfolding right now. While we're old enough to remember there was a 24-hour news cycle, it's now like a 24-minute news cycle.

KALB: I find everything moving so rapidly that I get a feeling that people aren't thinking. That terrifies me, because a lot of those people are running our lives.

BLITZER: Tell us about this book. When you say, "Enemy of the People, Trump's War on the Press" --

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BLITZER: -- what is the bottom line point you're trying to make?

KALB: The bottom line point, Wolf, is when he first used that expression three weeks into his tenure as president, I heard that and I was literally terrified. The expression was the one used by Hitler, of Germany, Stalin, of Russia, Mao, of China, by the dictators of the 20th century. I'm not suggesting the president has any of those ideas. I am convinced now, on the basis of the research I've done, he got that idea from Pat Caddell, the once liberal pollster for Jimmy Carter, who has swung way over to the right. He works now and does a lot of work for "Breitbart." The president heard that expression from him, from Steve Bannon, liked it, and used it without an awareness of its roots. But the roots are horrible. No president of a democratic society has ever used it. Why would he use it? In order to contain and control a free press which lies at the heart of American democracy.

BLITZER: And you're suggesting this is, in your words, the new McCarthyism.

KALB: Yes.

BLITZER: Why?

KALB: The new McCarthyism, because McCarthy, in the mid to early 1950s, used the press, used lying, used fear, which ran through the entire American society, in order to get his way. And his way, he thought, was the way of running the country. But it set America back considerably. And it took a great journalist like Edward R. Murrow, to take him on, and when he took him on, he managed to deflate McCarthyism and destroy it. And to me, it's an indication that good journalists, Mr. Wolf, good journalists are capable, like Murrow was with McCarthy, like Cronkite was in Vietnam, like Woodward and Bernstein during Watergate, they can see a story, they can cover it, and they can bring us out of the current morass in which we're in.

[13:55:22] BLITZER: And you say this all represents a threat to American democracy. Those are bold, strong words.

KALB: They're bold, strong words. They weren't easy for me to use. I've spent 60 years of my life as a reporter. I didn't get myself into a story at all. I'm into this story because I fear that we are on the edge of losing something that is essential to our democracy, and that is a free press.

BLITZER: The book is entitled "Enemy of the People: Trump's War on the Press, The New McCarthyism and the Threat to American Democracy."

Marvin, thanks very much for coming in.

KALB: Thank you.

BLITZER: Marvin Kalb is the author.

There's other breaking news we're following. The Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's future in question ahead of a critically important Thursday morning meeting with President Trump. Will he be fired? Will he resign? First, how will his fate affect the future of the Russia investigation? New details coming in.

We'll be right back.

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