Return to Transcripts main page


Donald Trump Says, OPEC Is Ripping Off The Rest Of The World; Donald Trump Also Told World Leaders At The Un That Of Course, He Rejects Globalism; Comedian Bill Cosby Has Been Sentenced Now To Three To Ten Years In A Pennsylvania Prison; Facebook Loses Two Key Executives, The Founders Of Instagram Call It Quits; Saudi Arabia Denies Any Links to Iran Parade Attack; Messy Political Fight Ahead for Sweden After PM Toppled; A Report from Catholic Church Officials in Germany Say At Least 3,600 People have been abused By Nearly 2,000 Priests and Clergy Members; French President Fires Back at Trump on Trade; Arancha Gonzalez: U.S.-China Trade War Might not be that Bad; Trump: We will No Longer Tolerate Abuse on Trade; Prosecutors Speak to the Press After Cosby Sentenced to Three to 10 Years in State Prison; GOP's Orrin Hatch Predicts Kavanaugh Vote this Weekend; GOP Hires Outside Counsel to Question Kavanaugh and Ford. Aired: 3-4p ET

Aired September 25, 2018 - 15:00   ET


PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: I wish I could tell you what to make of this trading day. I just got back from the stock exchange. It's the

final hour of trading on Wall Street and it has been that kind of see saw session for the Dow with very little volume, but we can tell you it is what

is driving the day. Oil prices of course are at a four-year high as Donald Trump trails against OPEC and Iran.

France's President in the meantime tells the world to shut out the US from global trade and Facebook shares fall as the Instagram founders sign out.

It's Tuesday, September 25th, I'm Paula Newton and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Good evening. Tonight, Donald Trump says, OPEC is ripping off the rest of the world. Speaking at the United Nations general assembly, the US

President took his gripes about the oil cartel off of Twitter and presented them before the world's most powerful leaders. Mr. Trump swears he won't

put up with quote, "horrible high oil prices much longer."


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: OPEC and OPEC nations are as usual ripping off the rest of the world and I don't like it, nobody should

like it. We defend many of these nations for nothing, and then they take advantage of us by giving us high oil prices. Not good.


NEWTON:` OK, not good. But here is exactly who trump is going after when he lambasted OPEC. Fifty nations from the Middle East, Africa and South

America. It includes of course, his friends like Saudi Arabia and of course some enemies like Venezuela and Iran . Combined, they control about

40 percent of the world's oil production. Now, oil prices are rallying as energy markets seemed to be blowing off the President.

Brent crude is pushing up to a four-year high. OPEC appears to be in no rush to increase its output and give prices a break. Now, meantime, Donald

Trump's decision to re-impose those sanctions on Iran certainly aren't helping and our John Defterios is in London and you know, that's one of the

contradictions here that many people point out to say, "Look, if Iran were allowed to come back in to these oil markets as was envisioned when they

had that first deal with the European countries and the United States, of course, prices could be a little bit more depressed than they are right


JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes, indeed, Paula. This is a lot about politics, particularly geopolitics and Iran and President Trump

keeps OPEC in his cross hairs and the key producers and the OPEC Secretary General in a word are battled. They said they would keep the market

balanced, but I think it's Donald Trump driving up prices right now.

There is in fact three key factors that are creating this perfect storm driving us to that four-year high that you're talking about. Yes, the

pressure on Iran, the US since they had the snap back sanctions and said they will put them in place on energy, November 4th have knocked out

800,000 barrels of exports already. Number two, Venezuela continues to collapse. Ten years ago, they were producing over three million barrels a

day. in September, according to the latest OPEC report, that's 1.2 million barrels a day and indeed, President Trump has a point here, Russia and

Saudi Arabia, the two largest producers in that OPEC, non-OPEC agreement are holding back production right now because they don't see the demand.

They promised in the second half of the year, they would add a million barrels a day. They are halfway there, but the Saudi oil minister, Khalid

A. Al-Falih said, "Look, until we get the orders from our customers, we are not going to put more oil on the market. They take it self-inflected by

Donald Trump putting the pressure on Iran and they are also watching, Paula the tariffs against China. It's a big importer of crude. They see if

China slows down those orders from Asia will slow down as well.

So they are not eager to put the added oil on to the market to respond to the political pressure and we have to not forget that Iran is a member of

OPEC, so even though Saudi Arabia and Iran fight with each other over Yemen for example in that proxy war, they have to keep the good ties within the

OPEC apparatus, that umbrella working with the non-OPEC producer, Russia as well.

NEWTON: It's not one thing because it serves both of their interest in both Saudi Arabia and Iran. John, we heard again, of course from Mr.

Rouhani who was talking again about the US posture towards Iran, trying to point out some of the contradictions, I want you to listen now to him

speaking to our own Christiane Amanpour.


HASSAN ROUHANI, PRESIDENT OF IRAN (Through a translator): When it comes to all the CRC expressing their political will and aids, they have been quite

resolute in making those announcements which consisted of him saying that we wish to safeguard the JCPOA.


ROUHANI: But in reality, in a tangible fashion, our expectations have not been met. What the Europeans announced, what they say today, if they can

put it into practice, of course the JCPOA will remain as such and we will be able to - without the presence of the United States of America, continue

with this agreement.


NEWTON: John, what he is talking about there is highly significant and that is the fact that Europe would get to keep its deal, the nuclear deal

with Iran and continue key - to do business with Iran even as the United States doesn't like it. Operationally, John, from what you have seen in

the last few weeks because it was the Germans who brought this up in the first place, can it work?

DEFTERIOS: Well, this is the Hassan Rouhani show-me-the-money moment, I think, Paula. He is saying let's go beyond the paradoxes if you read

between the lines of what he had to say to the Europeans, take a step back, these are the five signatory countries beyond the United States. They are

trying to work out a political deal and have the economics work at the same time.

They are talking about the a barter working around the US dollar and trying to keep up the exports for Iran. There is a harsh reality here. If I am a

Total or a BP or Shell and I have exposure to the United States, either with shareholders or with orders right now or a big trading commodities

group, I wouldn't touch this with a barge-ful. I would have the US Treasury and the US Federal Reserve all over me.

So here is the math, 2.8 million barrels of exports in June according to the oil minister who told me that at OPEC, 800,000 being knocked out.

There is two million left over. Is it realistic to think that the US will knock out another million barrels of exports from Iran by the snap back

sanctions deadline in November? Yes. Are they going to likely keep about a million barrels a day of production? I would think so, that's what they

had when they had the sanctions under the nuclear agreement.

For humanitarian purposes, the European Union, the other signatories want to protect that for Iran, Donald Trump's time to knock it down to zero, I

don't think that is going to be possible.

NEWTON: Yes, and knocking it down to zero, he is hoping will put not just economic pressure, but political pressure on Iran. Our John Defterios

laying out those issues quite succinctly. I appreciate it because it's getting complicated. Thanks so much.

DEFTERIOS: Very complicated. Yes.

NEWTON: Now, Donald Trump also told world leaders at the U.N. that of course, he rejects globalism. Now, the US President says his

administration is taking a hard look at the foreign aid it sends abroad. He warned countries who receive US aid, yes, you better be friendly.


TRUMP: We will examine what is working, what is not working and whether the countries who receive dollars and our protection also have our interest

at heart. Moving forward, we are only going to give foreign aid to those who respect us and frankly, are our friends.


NEWTON: Yes, a translation, listen or else. Jamie Metzl is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and CNN's International Diplomatic Editor,

of course is Nic Robertson.

Good to see you both, really. Jamie, first to you. I know that for those of us, all of three of us who have traveled all around the world and have

seen the good that US aid does not just for those interest in those countries, but for US American interests being safeguarded around the


Let's put that to one side, Jamie, you know this works really well for Donald Trump's base and he seems serious. He is going to actually put

policy to those words.

JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: He probably is and that's what so concerning. It's true that America gives a lot of support to our

allies and friends for various reasons, but one of the big reasons America gives aid around the world isn't some kind of gift. It is because we have

articulated and then past leaders have articulated the kind of world that we would like to live in and we are making - we have made smart investments

in building that world and building democracy and building free markets, and that takes a give and take.

Foreign aid is not just some kind of protection racket where people do everything that we want. What this is about is building alliances,

building friendships that endure where friends can have legitimate differences and if we are having some kind of despotic approach towards

foreign assistance, I fear that will undermine our values and ultimately, our interests.

NEWTON: You know, Nic, at a certain point in time, the world was used to there being a certain amount of benevolence around the world from the

United States in the way they handle this aid, even a lot of it was tied aid. Someone that was tied aid to human rights, how do you think

especially when you look at allies in Europe, how are they coming to terms with this Trump doctrine really?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: We've heard from President Macron on his speech this afternoon which is a rebuke in so many

ways explicitly of a lot of what President Trump who has talked about it and indeed, he talks about the importance of working with his international

organizations, but I think perhaps if we look at what we've heard from the German Foreign Minister in recent months about an alternate way of

supporting trade with Iran faced with the possibility of secondary sanctions for the United States from European countries, post the United

States pulling out of the JCPOA.


ROBERTSON: You know, and then the language - visual language of Javad Zarif, the Iranian foreign minister standing side by side with Federica

Mogherini last night talking about exactly that, and this is the British. This is rather the European adjustment. You know, every nation and

President Trump says this, they should look to their own national interest but the repercussions of President Trump looking to his own national

interest are beginning to crystallize in other nations around the world.

Last year, people sat and listened to President Trump, they were - they had an idea. They didn't really know the man and they were going to see what

would happen. This year is very clear. I think that's why the laughter came so easily so early in response to President Trump laying out how great

America was doing because there's almost a caricature of himself and the way that he is understood.

So yes, world leaders have an understanding and they are looking after their national security interest and it does mean the beginning of

something that one day, may become a marginalization of the dollar. We are getting way ahead of ourselves, but this is - these steps lead to these

sorts of things.

NEWTON: It is certainly a risk and that is why it was so really extraordinary that the Germans were the first to say that look, we perhaps,

should come up with another payment system. Jamie, into the vacuum steps with China, we've covered it so much on this show, what do you think the

risks are then to American foreign policy and what is China doing after we had tried to step into that vacuum.

METZL: Well, I am as you know, just back from China this morning and the United States really needs to wake up to the threat that China poses to the

world that America has built and America has built this world based on a set of values, based on an idea that came out of our experience out of the

second - the two World Wars that by sharing sovereignty, we don't lose something, we gain something.

And ironically, President Trump and the Chinese are both putting forward the same model of international affairs based on national sovereignty.

That's what the Chinese are saying in the South China Sea is that we are going to claim this whole thing and you, whoever it is, ASEAN or others,

should only interact with us on a bilateral basis, and not on the multilateral basis.

NEWTON: Right, we're not going to come there and talk to you about human rights. We don't care about that necessarily. We are coming country to

country, nation to nation.

METZL: Absolutely, and so Trump and China are saying the same thing and what is being pushed aside are America's values that have underpinned the

world that we have created out of the ashes of the Second World War and these concepts of international law of human rights, of free trade - those

aren't things that people did to us. Those are the principles that we espoused that built the world in which everybody has thrived, in which our

country has prospered.

And so to have the President of the United Nations taking the axe to the very values that have made America great and aligning himself

intellectually with the position of the Chinese and the Russians and the North Koreans, is deeply concerning. That brings to your question on

China, China has its eyes on the prize of global leadership and the world led by China will be very different than a world led by the United States.

The United States really needs to wake up to that and to try to build that world that we would like to live in.

NEWTON: And they're making real headway whether - just as a coincidence perhaps under President Trump. Nic, before we go on, I am really going to

lean on your experience here with Saudi Arabia. We're going to bring this whole conversation full circle. We had him talking about OPEC, of course

the most prominent member there is Saudi Arabia.

A lot of interesting moves in the Middle East and elsewhere when it comes to this alliance between Saudi Arabia and the United States. Is the United

States seeing a long gain there when it comes to Saudi Arabia because you know more than anyone how well they play at that game?

ROBERTSON: And Iran plays a long game very well, as well of course, I think Saudi Arabia is going through its own challenges at the moment.

Ultimately in the near to middle term, there would be a change of leadership, but we know what the new leadership looks like and President

Trump was praising that new leadership. Mohammad Bin Salman, the reforms that he is bringing to the country.

These are ambitious reforms and some would say, overly ambitious and over reach. We have seen this by Saudi leaders before talking about grand plans

and not following through. My guess at the moment while they want to have a strategy and are getting support from a lot of friends and analyst to

have a longer strategy that doesn't seem to think too far ahead. The war in Yemen would be an example.

But I just want to go to China here and I am sorry because I am dog licking - and going full circle here, but I was sitting at a business lunch and

business dinner with several hundred businessmen in Beijing recently and I was sitting there with the former Chinese Ambassador and he said the

concern that we have is that the United States thinks that our economy is growing, it's going too far too fast and it wasn't to throttle us back.

Now, listen to what Antonio Gutierrez, the U.N. Secretary General said when the talked about the ancient Greek political, if you will --


ROBERTSON: -- lesson to be learned where the Spartans thought the Athenians were growing too fast. They were in isolation. In Trump's

language, separate patriotic - separate constellations having their own space in the world, but they were separate and they went to war because one

was afraid of how well the other is doing. That's as you're saying exactly how the Chinese are beginning to view what is happening and as Antonio

Gutierrez says, that's incredibly dangerous and we heard nothing from President Trump that would walk back any of that --

NEWTON: It is a good point that if you frame the entire debate, it is in Trump's eyes a zero sum game. Gentlemen, thank you both. Really

appreciate it. Now, we do want to turn to the markets now. The Dow is down slightly in the first hour of trading. Trading volumes as I was

saying earlier are low.

Investors are waiting for the Fed. I want you to take your attention to those red dots, all of that happened as people had started to settle in

exactly what Donald Trump was saying at the U.N.. Now, we do have to say that a rise in those oil prices is boosting those energy shares and auto

stocks are down as well.

We will have much more on the market later. Still to come here though, Facebook loses two key executives, the founders of Instagram call it quits.

Some though are blaming Mark Zuckerberg.

And breaking news continues here at CNN. Comedian Bill Cosby has been sentenced now to three to ten years in a Pennsylvania prison. You see him

there because he has now been denied bail. Prosecutors said the entertainer had shown no remorse after his April conviction for drugging

and sexually assaulting Andrea Constand in 2004. The judge earlier ruled that the 81-year-old Cosby must now be classified as a sexually violent

predator for the rest of his life.

Of course, we will have more on this later in the program. I just want to turn your attention though to the fact that the judge is saying that he had

showed no remorse. There are many accusers that have come out against Mr. Cosby. This is the first time he has actually been convicted. He was

convicted today. It was all about sentencing and he will be going to prison. A lot of mixed emotions from the accusers there, actually, as they

say, no remorse and Mr. Cosby, I can tell you, I attended some of his shows, after the accusations came out, at no point in time admitted any

culpability, any remorse and was absolutely defiant.


NEWTON: It seems there, right until the last minute and as I said, we will continue to bring you more news on that right here, on CNN. We want to

return now to our business agenda. The Instagram founders say they are quitting Facebook. There are reports of tension in the C-suite. It all

looks very intriguing. We want to take a look though at this Instagram story.

It's a really interesting one. Instagram has come such a long way since it launched as an iPhone app eight years ago. One year after the launch,

Instagram had 10 million users. today, get this, one billion users and growing. Their so called influencers, can I even say that? Like GIF here,

let's keep in mind, regular people or animals and companies like Goldman Sachs that want to reach those younger audiences and that is the key to

Instagram, those younger audiences.

Facebook saw dollar signs of course. It decided Instagram and its users were worth a billion dollars. It was a huge amount for Facebook way back

in 2012. Now Instagram brings in nearly $7 billion from ads each year and get this, it could contribute up to a quarter of Facebook's revenue by


Now, that's thanks to Instagram's new features, like stories, longer videos and ads and that has led to accusations that Instagram, you know what?

It's just copying Snap. With Facebook's oversight, had growth but a heck of a lot of tension. The CEO of WhatsApp, another app owned by Facebook,

get the picture here, left in April after disagreements about how to handle users personal data.

And five months before that, there were reports of story of C-suite friction has repeated itself with those Instagram founders. Whatever the

reason, at least Facebook without two key leaders now. Remember, Instagram is growing much faster than Facebook itself. CNN's Samuel Burke has the

latest. He is now going to give us some perspective on all of this.

Listen, it is quite a sordid history at the end of the day though, it's an incredibly successful history. First question to you, can Facebook

continue this going forward in terms of the incredible success it's had with Instagram even without the two founders?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the answer is in the numbers, Paula, which I will show you even more, but it's

interesting because at the beginning of the day when this news leaked, investors were kind of looking at the glass half empty and rightfully

nervous these cofounders could go to a competitor possibly or create a competitor, but then all of a sudden, Facebook stock wasn't down so much.

Now, it's only down about 0.2 percent. It was down more than 2 percent earlier in the day. Suddenly people were seeing these reports of friction

between the cofounders, you see the numbers right there live on the screen. Stock down just a little bit, but not so much like it was earlier.

We saw these reports that there are some friction between the cofounders of Instagram and Facebook and there's always this kind of tangent, Facebook

wants to make more and more money. Their obligation is to the shareholders, so sometimes, you've just got to get the original folks out

of the way.

But I do want to answer your question specifically. So let's just get this chart up on the screen so everybody can see it, Paula. Back in 2015, look

how little money Facebook was earning from Instagram. The app was just a half billion dollars here, same thing that Paula and I make in a year.

Then, by this year, as you've pointed out, nearly $7 billion; next year, more than $10 billion. Paula, Facebook has already proven that they can

take this app and get lots of money out of it, so now, all of a sudden, the market looking at this, the half glass full. Getting the founders out of

the way may mean that they can make even more money.

NEWTON: Now, I am going to now take the contrarian view. I am going to say --

BURKE: You always do.

NEWTON: -- OK these guys might have a non-compete that we don't know about, but let's face it, they are innovators and perhaps some people have

been looking for an alternative to Instagram or Snap and believe me, people were looking for an alternative to Facebook a long time ago, which is why

Instagram is so successful. What about that going forward?

BURKE: OK, Paula, we already have Facebook, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Twitter, Snap - just look at the stock prices of Twitter and Snap. If you

think we need another social network --

NEWTON: I am not saying I think we do, I am just looking at that millennial - it's not even a millennial audience, right? It's literally

kids under the age of 16. They are not happy about any of it. They are looking for the next best thing.

BURKE: It's not a millennial age, under 16 - it's every human being in the world nearly. Listen, there are a lot of social networks and almost all

the investors that I talk to, Paula, are not looking for the next social network. They feel like there is saturation. So, yes, they could go in

and create another one, but just look at Snap. Snap created a whole other social network, very popular, Instagram just stealing and copying whatever

you want to call it, the features like stories that have already become more successful than Snap itself.

So what Facebook has become very good at doing is building a moat around their product, which you're pointing out as not the --

are not looking for the next social network. They feel like there is saturation. So, yes, they could go in and create another one, but just

look at Snap. Snap created a whole other social network, very popular, Instagram just stealing and copying whatever you want to call it, the

features like stories that have already become more successful than Snap itself.

So what Facebook has become very good at doing is building a moat around their product, which you're pointing out as not the --


BURKE: -- cool place necessarily anymore, that's why they can kick back and rely on all of these other products like WhatsApp and by the way,

WhatsApp has barely made them any money yet, now that Jan Koum is out of the way, the guy you were talking about earlier, the cofounder of WhatsApp,

they can also start making more money from these apps. Investors should be celebrating.

NEWTON: Yes, it's interesting because certainly, the stock prices aren't affected there, but it hasn't been - it hadn't been seen in there crystal

ball I should say, Samuel, but I think we will see if Facebook can actually as you said kind of capitalize on their own management techniques with

these people out of the way.

BURKE: We will see very few, I think.

NEWTON: I give though, I think you won that round. Thank you so much, I appreciate it and we will be right back with more news in a moment.


NEWTON: Hello, I'm Paula Newton and there's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. But first, these are the top headlines we are following

this hour. Comedian Bill Cosby has been sentenced to three to ten years in a Pennsylvania prison and denied bail. Prosecutors said the entertainer

had shown no remorse after his April conviction for drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea Constand in 2004.

The judge earlier ruled that the 81-year-old Cosby must now be classified as a sexually violent predator for the rest of his life.

US President Donald Trump slammed Iran during his speech in the U.N. General Assembly today saying if leaders so chaos, death and destruction

around the world. He also defended his decision to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal and reimposed pertinent sanctions.

Saudi Arabia is rejecting allegations by Iran that it financed a terror attack on an Iranian military parade over the weekend. Now, gunmen open

fired on soldiers and spectators at the parade in the city of Ahvaz killing 29 people.

[15:30:00] Saudi Arabia calls Iran's accusations that the kingdom was involved -- in fire on soldiers and spectators at the parade in the city of

Abbas, killing 29 people. Saudi Arabia calls Iran's accusations that the kingdom was involved deplorable.

Sweden's center-left Prime Minister has now been toppled after losing a confidence vote in parliament. Stefan Lofven was ousted two weeks after

tumultuous general election that ended in a hang parliament. A report from Catholic Church officials in Germany says at least 3,600 people have been

abused by nearly 2,000 priests and clergy members.

More than half of the victims were under the age of 14, many of them boys. The report left out many cases where the abuse happened outside of parishes

such as those that happened in schools. The president of France is firing back at Donald Trump on trade.

Emmanuel Macron told the United Nations General Assembly, countries should consider only doing trade deals with nations that sign up to the Paris

Climate Accord. Just a reminder here, the only country that hasn't is the United States.


EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: Let's also be clear, consistent, there's certainly an urgent situation, so let's -- for example, stop

signing trade agreements with those who don't comply with the Paris Agreement. Let's have that, our trade agreement take on board our

environmental obligations.


NEWTON: Arancha Gonzalez is the executive director of the International Trade Center, the joint development agency of the UN and the WTO, and she

joins me now here in the C-suite. Thanks so much for being with us.


NEWTON: Listen, the issues that you have worked so hard on in the last few years are really under attack here by the Trump administration. But one of

the reasons that they point to this, and the Trump administration says is that in these trade deals, those most vulnerable in the United States -- to

take one, have been left behind.

And yet, there are many examples of people being left behind with these trade deals all over the world. Do you see this as a broad side though

against free trade around the world?

GONZALEZ: Well, I don't think it's trade deals that leave people behind. Trade deals create opportunities.

NEWTON: But they do leave a lot of people behind as well.

GONZALEZ: But you need to make sure that you have in place policies at home and abroad around trade deals that will help everybody join in this

benefit. That trade deals will not only benefit the 1 percent. What matters most, skills and education.

What matters most, infrastructure, digital technology, knowledge, that is what matters to take advantage of these opportunities created by trade

agreements. So let's not put the blame on the trade agreements, let's make sure we reinforce domestic policies that will make the 99 percent --

NEWTON: And I need to hold you there as we are going to breaking news now, and we go to a press conference regarding the sentencing of Bill Cosby.

KEVIN STEELE, ATTORNEY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY DISTRICT: Similar sexual assaults and rapes at the hand of the defendant. There's also been a long

road for our prosecution team, which has worked hard to get justice for Andrea Constand overcoming every legal hurdle that was thrown at us, and

succession of defense attorneys along the way.

For decades, the defendant has been able to hide his true self behind his crime along the way. For decades, the defendant has been able to hide his

true self and hide his crimes using his fame and fortune, is behind the character created Dr. Cliff Huxtable.

Is a Seminole character on TV and so was the family, but it was fiction. Before Bill Cosby became a convicted felon and taken away in handcuffs to

begin paying for his crimes, a lot of people believe that that's who he was. But we know otherwise. He used his acting skills and that endearing

TV personality to win over his victims and then keep them silent about what he did to them.

So now finally, Bill Cosby has been unmasked and we have seen the real man as he's headed off to prison. So throughout this investigation and

prosecution, we have treated the defendant like any other defendant. Our office prosecutes approximately 9,500 cases a year.

And as prosecutors, it's our job to follow the evidence wherever it leads and to whomever it leaves and file charges accordingly, and then follow

through on the prosecution of those crimes. That's what we do every day, we do the right thing and that's what we did in this case.

[15:35:00] We do the right thing because for someone who has a lot of money, someone who is famous, someone who can get a lot of attention all

over the world by showing up at some place to eat shouldn't be given a pass for their crimes and allowed to walk free. Because he and his defense team

are going to make it hard to prosecute him or because it will be expense of the prosecution.

Every victim deserves justice. Upset jury said guilty, and then said guilty and then said guilty to all three charges of aggravated indecent

assault. The sentencing guidelines indicated that the defendant should go to prison. We argued for a stiffer sentence to reflect that egregious

natures of the crime.

Giving women drugs so he can then have no resistance, it is a very serious crime and the judge spoke of that today. And matter that he is only now

being prosecuted and called to account for those crimes. In the eyes of this court, he is a convicted felon and shouldn't be given a pass.

So I'm pleased that Judge O'Neill filed the sentencing guidelines, handed down a fair and significant sentence that reflects the severity of Cosby's

crimes and a life-long impact on Andrea. So let me talk about Andrea for a moment here. I can't say enough about her.

We are all better off because she is in our lives. You heard about how this assault changed her life, she has been through an ordeal this past 14

years and she has been solid and steadfast. To put herself out like this for years in front of a worldwide audience is extremely difficult for every

-- anyone.

She's been a rock, she's done the right thing over and over and over again. She went to the police and started this investigation, she told us she

would cooperate with the prosecution long after she thought this had -- this ordeal had been put behind her. And she could have stayed in only

Canada, and she could have lived a quiet life.

But she knew it was important to see that justice was served, and we had some time when we were waiting for the jury the first time around. And so

many know I coached a little basketball, so I was trying to get tips from Andrea on this. It's not every day that I get to be around a person of

this caliber of talent in the basketball arena.

And when we had a pretty good indication of where that was going. I went to her and asked her what she wants to do, sticking with the basketball

aspect. She did one of these, and said always follow through, and she did and it has led us to where we are today.

She agreed to seek justice after that first call ended, and we knew what we were going to go through again and she never wavered. So we reached

justice, we got to hear from the jury guilty verdicts and right there, standing with Andrea and her family with the other courageous victims, I'm

overwhelmed by the number of women who were willing to go through this process with us.

Who were willing to testify at a trial, telling their stories about being drugged and sexually assaulted or raped by Bill Cosby, especially applied

to six witnesses who did have a chance to face the defendant in court and tell the jury and the world what happened to them.

The courage of Kelly Johnson, Heidi Thomas, Chelan Lasha, Janice Dickinson, Janice Baker-Kinney and Lise-Lotte Lublin were tremendous. They also

endured significant victim-shaming which should never happen in a courtroom, but anybody that was there saw it.

And I hope this is trial seeing the defendant brought to justice helped each of them and all of the other victims heal in their own way. And I

want to also thank her attorneys Delores Troiani and Bibi Kivitz who were with her every step of the way with this as well as this prosecution team

and it was nice to have thunder and lightning and gas meet here and Stew Ryan and Kristen Feden are consummate professionals and who have been with

me the whole way.

[15:40:00] And I can't say how appreciative -- how appreciative I am of that, and you know, also their talents which you again got to see in court

when Stew had another -- canceled an expert there. Our tell it unit and you got to meet Perry C.(ph) in this case when she argued the

constitutionality of it and did a marvelous job.

And we're so happy that she's part of our team. Carolina Goldstein(ph), next to her, you know, Caroline has been the quiet one behind us, helping

us each step of the way, and working diligently all hours. Adrian Jappy(ph), next to her, the assistant chief for Appellate Unit, and Bob

Fallon(ph) who is our chief from appeals.

These folks, when all these stuff keeps hitting and these emotions keep coming, they're the reason we're so prepared each and every day to face any

challenges --

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For all of the women and men who are fearful of coming forward if they are accusing someone of rape or worse.

Let Andrea Constand, the woman, a great trail blazer be your guide and know that in this case and her case, justice can be served. When we come back,

we're going to talk to Lili Bernard; an actress who accused Bill Cosby of drugging and rapping her.

What today -- what the sentencing, what this moment feels like for her and so many other survivors next.


BALDWIN: We are back live in Norristown, Pennsylvania, where a handcuffed Bill Cosby is heading to state prison, three to 10 years, that was the

sentencing coming down from this Judge O'Neill earlier today. And I want to go straight to a rainy Norristown, to Lili Bernard who is an actress who

has accused Bill Cosby of drugging and raping her in the early 1990s.

Lili, thank you so much for being with me. You were there, you were in the courtroom, what was it like seeing handcuffs slapped on this man?

LILI BERNARD, VICTIM OF BILL COSBY: Well, you know, unfortunately, we did not get to see him handcuffed, all we got to see is him laughing and

giggling and his shoulders jumping up and down as he was rolling up his sleeves, preparing to be handcuffed.

But then we were ordered to all leave the courtroom because of security reasons, so unfortunately, I've not been able to see him handcuffed.

BALDWIN: He's going to prison.


BALDWIN: What does this feel like for you?

BERNARD: Yes, wow, it's a hallelujah moment, I think as this pouring rain is absolutely (INAUDIBLE) because Judge Steven O'Neill handed down a

monsoon of a decision, this is a momentous, historic sentencing in the Me Too era, and it's actually the first trial in the Me Too era.

So it's incredibly important. And I do have mixed emotions, on the one hand, I feel absolutely elated that justice was served. On the other hand,

I also feel disappointed because clearly, the three-year minimum sentence does not adequately reflect the havoc that this man, this rapist has

inflicted upon the lives of so many women including myself.

So clearly, the justice system is still stuck against sexual (INAUDIBLE), but it does indicate that there's now a shift in the legal system, God-

willing it's not going to reflect modern culture. In fact, now women's voices are being believed, women's lives are being valued.


Mixed emotions, but gratitude.

BALDWIN: Sure, I mean, but you know this is -- I mean so -- it's just a small number of rapists whoever actually get convicted and here you have

Bill Cosby serving time. I mean, do you feel for the most part that justice is being served?

BERNARD: Absolutely, but you brought a really excellent point because only less than 2 percent of rapists ever see the inside of a jail, ever --


BERNARD: See or behind bars. And the fact one so beloved, one so revered, one so privileged by his wealth, his fame, his fortune and his phony

philanthropy has actually been finally convicted. They received a maximum sentence of ten years and with an eligibility for parole after only serving

at least three years, that is tremendous in itself.

That is pivotal in the whole -- in the whole culture of rape. It's really a very historic decision, so yes, that's amazing.

BALDWIN: Were you able to -- were you able to --

BERNARD: And of course -- sorry --

BALDWIN: No, go ahead.

BERNARD: Oh, no, I just wanted to say that with that 2 percent statistic of rapists ever -- you know, seeing the inside of a prison, that statistic

is much less when it's someone as powerful, as protected as a celebrity.

BALDWIN: Sure, were you able to have a conversation with Andrea Constand at all? We saw her standing behind the DA --


BALDWIN: Just a second ago. So can you tell me --

BERNARD: Yes, absolutely --

BALDWIN: About how she's feeling today?

BERNARD: She's doing -- I mean, I can't speak for her, but she appears to be great, to be doing great. For me, I hugged her, I hugged her mom and

her dad and her sister, and that family is just amazing, outstanding role model of courage and unity.

And it is no wonder that Andrea Constand is the general backing the war, right as I refer her because she has this tremendous family base of support

and love, and that is just so evident, it's incredibly evident. So I feel so privileged to be able to be a part of this.

[15:50:00] You know, it was very difficult going through it of course, and to watch Andrea be victimized and blamed and shamed on the victim's stands,

that -- but just to be able to be here and to watch her -- you know, begin to rise like a phoenix out of the ashes of pain and suffering is just such

a tremendous privilege.


BALDWIN: The victims shaming is real, I'm happy for you, I'm happy for her, I can only imagine the betrayal you have faced through the years as

well. Lili Bernard, thank you so much for the time and let's just hope this guilty verdict means more women will feel emboldened and empowered --

BERNARD: That's true --

BALDWIN: To come forward. Lili, thank you so much, appreciate you, appreciate your voice --

BERNARD: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: More on Bill Cosby coming up of course as we've seen him in just in the last few moments, he's taken into custody, he is going to prison.

You are watching CNN special live coverage, there he is, walking and to the county jail.


BALDWIN: All right, now to Thursday's hearing of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and the woman accusing him of physical and sexual assault,

Christine Blasey Ford. Republican Senator Orrin Hatch; a member of the committee overseeing the hearing said moments ago that Judge Kavanaugh is

going to be confirmed, taking a vote on this confirmation could happen this weekend.

This is happening as Republicans are trying to avoid the optics of, you know, 27 years ago, have announced an outside female attorney will question

both Judge Kavanaugh and Ford on the Republicans behalf. We're hearing Democratic senators will be the ones asking questions themselves.

No doubt, Republican Senate -- Republican members of the Senate Judiciary Committee do not want a repeat of this scene in 1991 when Anita Hill, a

lone woman had to answer questions about her accusations against the nominee Clarence Thomas from a panel of white men.

Moments ago, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell weighed in.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER, SENATE: There are a lot of people calling in, has been given an opportunity to come in and testify

under oath as to whether some other occurrence went on. Most of them don't want to do that.

Because once they realize they have to be under oath and there are potential criminal penalties, they become less interested. So look, we

have two people here who have a different version of what has happened. We need to listen to them both respectfully, and then make a decision.


BALDWIN: Let's talk this over with CNN Legal Analyst, Jack Quinn, who served as White House counsel under President Clinton and CNN Political

Commentator, Mary Katharine Ham who is also a senior writer at "The Federalist". So welcome to both of you, and Jack Quinn with your legal hat

on here, I mean, what's your reaction to this outside counsel questioning Ford and Kavanaugh on behalf of the Republicans?

JACK QUINN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I understand why they're doing it, they're really concerned about the image of having a bunch of white men

sitting there, asking tough questions of a woman who is testifying to the effect that she is a victim of sexual abuse.

I get that, but I think they're having an outside counsel come in and do that is not going to cure the problem. You're going to have all of these

Republican senators sitting there and I'll bet anything, they'll be making faces, they'll be wishing they could jump in.

You know, the impression is still terrible. But more importantly, stepping back here. Everybody gets it that they don't want to get to the facts

here. I'm not -- listen, believe me, I am not casting a judgment one way or the other about Brett Kavanaugh.

I think it's important to get to the truth of the allegations that had been made. But it's also important to allow any other allegations that might be

made to come forward. There's such a determination not to allow an investigation that would be in the interest of seeking the truth.

There's a whole -- this baloney that they can't bring the FBI in to help get to the truth of this matter --

BALDWIN: Sure --

QUINN: What after all, what does the -- what does the "I" in FBI stand for?

BALDWIN: Sure, I know --

QUINN: I mean --

BALDWIN: We know, and I mean, let me just jump in because I want to hear from Mary Katharine too, and yes, you know, she wanted this outside FBI

investigation. She wanted other eyewitnesses testify, that looks like a no go. But Mary Katharine on the flip side of what Jack's saying, I mean,

when you look at all the men who will be questioning her and him, it's 11 Republican men.

And is that not a step at least in the right direction to have a woman, to have an outside counsel do the questioning?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, SENIOR WRITER, THE FEDERALIST: Yes, I think it's wise obviously, optically, it helps to have a woman there. I think it helps to

have outside counsel because to your point, I think it's baloney that they don't want to get to the facts of this that they're having an outside

counsel come in that actually by the way, knows what she is doing when asking questions and asking tough questions about -- from them I guess.

I'm not -- relish any senator taking this on because this is not their specialty, but it would be her specialty and she would be more prepared to

actually get to the facts of this which I would argue Republicans have been trying to do for the last week or so instead of ignoring it for two months

which is what happened before this came to light.

And so look, they will ask the questions, every -- both sides will be heard, he has been put -- and they have been put in an impossible,

political position, it's not designed for them to be able to get out of this cleanly and like everyone should answer for this.

BALDWIN: And they came from there and talked about it --

QUINN: The scene has been vacant -- the scene has been vacant for eight months, and there's -- you know, there was no time to consider the

nomination of Merrick Garland --


BALDWIN: Been a week --

QUINN: And this has to be rushed to judgment.


BALDWIN: I've got five seconds, thank you both, I'm Brook Baldwin, "THE LEAD" starts right now.

QUINN: Thank you.