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Kavanaugh: I Never Assaulted Anyone; Trump Toasts U.N. Representatives at Luncheon; Grassley: 11-Man Committee Will Bring in Outside Female Counsel to Question Kavanaugh & Blasey Ford; Awaiting Bill Cosby Sentence for Sexual Assault. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 25, 2018 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:20] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The confirmation battle surrounding the Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh is escalating. Now a former Yale roommate of his is sharing what he remembers about Kavanaugh during their freshman year of college. This roommate is writing this, quote, "I concluded that although Brett was normally reserved, he was a notably heavy drinker even by the standards of the time and then became aggressive and belligerent when he was very drunk. I didn't observe the specific incident in question, but I do remember Brett frequently drinking excessively and becoming incoherently drunk," closed quote.

Kavanaugh is telling a much different story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT KAVANAUGH, U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: The truth is I have never sexually assaulted anyone in high school or otherwise.

I was focused on trying to be number one in my class and being captain of the varsity basketball team and doing my service projects and going to church. The vast majority of the time I spent in high school was studying, or focused on sports, and being a good friend to the boys and the the girls that I was friends with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now is one of Kavanaugh's friends and former colleagues when they worked at the White House, Cathie Martin.

Cathie, thanks for joining us.

CATHIE MARTIN, FRIEND & COLLEAGUE OF BRETT KAVANAUGH: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: You got to know him well during your years at the White House.

MARTIN: I did.

BLITZER: You have known him since then. MARTIN: I have.

BLITZER: You are friends with his wife?

MARTIN: I am.

BLITZER: Tell us why you think the charges these two women are leveling against him are false.

MARTIN: Because Brett Kavanaugh said they are false. He said unequivocally and vehemently that he denies the allegations made against him. I believe Brett Kavanaugh because I know his character and I know him to be a good and decent person. He is incapable of doing the things being alleged.

BLITZER: The former roommate suggested he used to drink as a freshman at Yale -- hold on one second, I will get you to answer that.

But the president is speaking and I want to hear what he is saying.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody gathered together, all the great leaders, world leaders, people that we all know and read about on a weekly basis and sometimes a daily basis. But the United Nations has this incredible potential to bring people together. I think we are an example. Certain things we are doing towards world peace. We are truly a direct -- has a direct relationship to the time I spent at the United Nations meeting some of you. Many of you are now friends. When I first came here, even though I lived in New York, it was a little bit of a foreign territory to me, the United Nations. Now it's like home. But so many great people and so many great leaders in this room. And a lot of terrific things are happening. We covered, as you know during my speech, North Korea. Last year, my tone was somewhat different on North Korea than it is right now. Tremendous progress has been made. And I think you will see an outcome. As the express goes, who knows. But I think you will see a very, very great outcome. I hope that eventually some of the other countries that we have conflict with, if not war-like conflict, trade conflict, other types of conflict, a lot of those problems will disappear I think by next year.

I want to thank you on behalf of myself, Secretary Pompeo, Secretary Nikki Haley. So many people have such respect for the job you're doing, Mr. Secretary-General. On behalf of the United States, I would like to toast you and I'd like to toast the United Nations.

Thank you very much.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: So there's the president at his luncheon in New York at the United Nations toasting the United Nations representatives from around the world. They are at the luncheon as well. We will have more on that. That's coming up.

I want to get back to Cathie Martin, a friend, former colleague of Judge Kavanaugh. They both worked together during the Bush White House during those years.

I was asking you about, when you hear some of these people who knew him in high school and college saying he was drunk, he was aggressive, he got to be violent from time to time, this is not the man you know obviously.

MARTIN: Totally contrary to my experience.

BLITZER: Do you believe the accounts of him as a young man?

[13:35:02] MARTIN: Not at all. It's not in keeping with the person I know. I've had drinks with Brett. I've watched football games and had beers with him and I have never seen him be out-of-control drunk or act belligerent in any way.

BLITZER: But this wasn't when he was older. This is in the '90s. We are talking about in the '80s when he was in high school and college.

MARTIN: Sure, but even having a few beers or drinking a few too many is not the same as being someone who is capable of sexual assault.

BLITZER: Let me get your reaction. We are getting this in from Manu Raju. He's our congressional correspondent. The Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, Chuck Grassley, just announced that the committee, at their hearing on Thursday morning, when both Judge Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford, the professor, will be testifying, that they have decided that they will bring in an outside female counsel for the Republicans to ask the questions and the 11 Republican members will not directly ask questions of the two witnesses. They are saying they're not announcing the name of this outside counsel yet. Do you think that's a good idea for the Republicans to do that?

MARTIN: I think the Senate Judiciary Committee is in the best position to determine how they should best ask the questions and get the information they need to make a decision.

BLITZER: This is a woman, the outside counsel, who has extensive experience, he says -- this is Chuck Grassley -- he says, "in sex crimes prosecution." Clearly, the thought is that 11 men -- all Republican members of the committee are all men, no women -- that maybe it would be inappropriate or awkward for them to be asking tough questions of these two witnesses.

MARTIN: Again, I think the Senate Judiciary Committee is in the best position to determine how they should ask the questions and who should ask the questions and how they should get to the truth and move forward on this nomination. What we are going to see is an opportunity for both Brett Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford to come forward and tell their stories, and I hope it's a fair process for both involved. And I look forward to hearing Brett continue to vehemently and unequivocally say he never assaulted anyone and give the truth.

BLITZER: You saw the interview he did on FOX News --

MARTIN: I did.

BLITZER: -- with his wife last night. He was very passionate and emotional. She was as well.

One thing that didn't come clear to me, he said he really wants the truth to come out. So why not allow the FBI and suggest the FBI should do a full background check, which is part of their job, as you know.

MARTIN: But Brett has had six FBI investigations. And in my experience with the FBI investigations, is they look all the way back through your life to your childhood. They go and knock on your neighbor's doors and ask for friends of friends. They don't rely on your character witnesses, but other people you didn't list. They ask that the witnesses had ever seen you in a compromising position. Whether they have ever seen you drunk or if you've ever done drugs. They ask all of those questions and all of that has been done six times and there's never a hint of anything --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: -- that would compare.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: If he has nothing to hide, why not allow them to go spend a few days --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: He has nothing to hide. He has gone to the committee and said he is willing to come forward and tell the truth in whatever capacity the committee believes would be the best way to get the information.

BLITZER: But if the committee -- but if the committee says, you know what, we will spend a few extra days, we will do a full background check by the FBI, you would be OK with that?

MARTIN: And Brett if willing to get to the truth and the bottom of it and wants to have an opportunity to talk to the American people and tell his story.

BLITZER: If the FBI comes back and says they can find any corroboration, his reputation and his name would be cleared.

MARTIN: He wants to clear his name.

BLITZER: That's why I'm surprised he has not asked for an FBI background check.

MARTIN: He told the committee that he wants to clear his name and he wants an opportunity to tell the truth to the American people.

BLITZER: Cathie, thanks very much.

MARTIN: Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: You are a good friend of his. MARTIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Appreciate you coming on.

MARTIN: Thank you.

[13:38:54] BLITZER: Any moment now, the disgraced comedian, Bill Cosby, will learn his fate. He could face years in prison for sexual assault. We are standing by to hear the judge's sentence. The latest from the courtroom. Looking at live pictures.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following breaking news. Moments from now, the disgraced comedian, Bill Cosby, will learn his sentence. He was found guilty in April of three counts of aggravated indecent assault for drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea Constand back in 2004.

CNN's Athena Jones is live.

Athena, what's happening in the court right now?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. We are waiting to hear from Judge Steven O'Neill. He is set to announce his decision on what kind of sentence Bill Cosby is going to have to carry out. We know Cosby's lawyers asked that he be sentenced to house arrest. They cited his age. He is 81 years old and legally blind. He has difficulty getting around and he is not self-sufficient. And they've argued he is not a danger to anyone other than maybe himself. They say incarceration would impose an undue burden on him. The prosecution is asking for five to 10 years. That is a maximum sentence. You'll remember the three charges have been combined because they stem from the same event. The maximum is 10 years. Prosecutors have asked for five to 10 years. They also want Cosby to pay a $25,000 fine and other costs, the cost of prosecution, court costs and sheriffs cost. So that is what we're waiting to hear now.

Earlier this morning, that same judge, Judge O'Neill, ruled that Cosby will be classified as a sexually violent predator. He will be required to register for life. He will have a lifetime mandatory counseling to deal with that issue and also a notification of the community that a sexual predator lives in the area. That is independent from the sentence. We are still waiting to hear what his fate will be, coming any minute now.

[13:45:23] Remember, Wolf, this is the first verdict of a celebrity being accused of sexual assault in the "Me Too" era. This is a very big deal. It was a case that was a long time in the making. You will remember the first trial ended in a mistrial. At the second trial, Andrea Constand, his accuser, was willing to come and do a second trial, but they had five other women able to testify and buttress what she was saying in her testimony about being drugged and incapacitated and being sexually assaulted. That is what led to the conviction in April. We are waiting now to see how long Bill Cosby may spend behind bars.

BLITZER: Momentarily, we will find out whether he goes to jail at age 81 or not.

Stand by, Athena.

I want to bring in our legal analyst, Areva Martin, who is joining us from Los Angeles.

Areva, you spent a lot of time watching this case unfold. He is either not going to jail or go to jail for five or 10 years. Now that the judge ruled him a sexually violent predator for the rest of his life, what signal does that send?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wolf, I think, based on what we have seen from the judge and the cases he's ruled on that are similar to Bill Cosby's, we should expect Bill Cosby to spend some time in jail. What's remarkable about that case, Wolf, is Bill Cosby has never expressed any remorse. He had an opportunity today during the sentencing hearing to take the stand and to ask for mercy, to talk about the things he has done in the community and things he has done in his life, and to ask the judge to give him leniency. He did not do that. He missed that opportunity and passed on that opportunity to do so. And although, legally, the judge can't take that into consideration, that says a lot about Bill Cosby and whether he accepted the harm that he has done to Andrea Constand. We will be looking to see how the judge plays this out in terms of sentencing Bill Cosby, but it's incredible that we have not seen him express any remorse.

BLITZER: If he is sentenced, I assume he is immediately taken from the courthouse to prison, is that right?

AREVA MARTIN: That's what the prosecutors are asking for. An appeal has already been filed by his team. We should expect them to continue to argue to allow him to stay out on bail pending that appeal.

Wolf, I also want to note, not only did Cosby not take the stand in his own defense and ask for mercy, but there were no witnesses put on by the defense to try to paint a picture of him other than as the sexually violent predator that he has been deemed by the court.

BLITZER: Areva and Athena, I want both of you to stand by.

Bill Cosby sentence, any moment now.

Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:35] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Looking at live picture coming in from the courthouse in Norristown, Pennsylvania. Any moment now, we're expected to get the sentence of Bill Cosby. Earlier, the judge in the case, Steven O'Neill, ruled that he will be labeled as a, quote, "sexually violent predator" for the rest of his life. The 81-year-old awaiting sentencing. The prosecutors want at least five years in jail, as much as 10. The defense says, he's 81 years old, legally blind, he should not necessarily have to go to jail.

I want to bring in our legal analysts. Areva Martin is still with us. And Mark Geragos is joining us as well.

Mark, we should get the word momentarily. Does he wind up in jail, not wind up in jail? Areva was making the point he really did not express any remorse. What do you think?

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He's going to end up in prison. They'll probably remand him today. He'll probably get, if I had to prognosticate, I'd say 30 months, maybe a little bit less. But my guess is 30 months, which is about half what the prosecution is asking for. There's no way he's going to get straight probation. And there's also no way he's going to go five or 10 years. The judge signaled that when he did not remand him, meaning put him into jail, after the verdict. That's normally what happens. So the judge obviously was struggling with the idea of what do you do with somebody who is this age who has got some infirmities. I think he's going to lean towards leniency, if you will, but he's going to send him to state prison. I don't think there's any of doubt about that.

BLITZER: Should he have expressed remorse? Should he have testified? Should he have brought witnesses in to make the case he's done humanitarian deeds, other good deeds in his life?

GERAGOS: This is the problem. You're talking about somebody who is maintaining their innocence. This is the conundrum when you're a criminal defendant. If you maintain your innocence, it's very hard to express remorse or contrition in any way that's meaningful because you're saying basically I have been wrongfully convicted. When you're saying I've been wrongfully convicted, that's tough.

Now, the second part of your question I think is spot on. There probably should have been a little bit -- and I hate to second guess anybody and maybe they made some kind of a strategic decision -- but you do want to highlight that this is somebody who has led a good life at least at some point and who has got good works. I don't know if strategically they figured the die was already cast or if they figured this judge is already telegraphing he's going to give the prosecution what they want, why is it you're going to open it up to the idea he's done all these good things and let the prosecution counter with the fact that look at what he's done to all of these women. I understand the strategic thinking by not going there.

[13:55:31] BLITZER: What do think? Areva, react. Mark, speculating two and a half years in jail. The prosecution wanted five years, maybe 10 years. What do you think?

AREVA MARTIN: I think there's no way he gets home confinement, which is what his team was arguing for. I agree with Mark that he's going to serve prison time anywhere from two to six years. I think it significant. This judge knows it's the first case of this nature where there's been a conviction of a celebrity in this "Me Too" era. We saw what happened to the judge in the brock turner case in California. I'm sure this judge doesn't want a repeat of that given the tons of women, the 60-plus women that have come forward, the voice that all of these women have found. I don't see a judge sending Bill Cosby home or to county jail. This is a very serious case. He's been deemed a violent sexual predator. And Bill Cosby is going to go to jail, as many women around the country believe that he should.

BLITZER: Mark, Areva made an important point. Presumably, they will file, the defense, an appeal. Any chance that pending appeal he might be out of jail?

GERAGOS: Normally, the odds are dramatically against it. The only hesitation I would have is that clearly here the judge is struggling to some degree because he did not remand him after conviction. I cannot emphasize enough, virtually every case that you see where there's a felony conviction of these kind of charges, pending sentencing, bail is revoked and the defendant is remanded and put into custody. So that tells me that he's got some hesitation. I don't know if the hesitation is about -- you know, they've got a pretty good issue on what's called the other crimes evidence, the defense does. So he may be struggling with that. Pennsylvania is -- kind of lags behind some other jurisdictions, notably California, with the level of judicial scrutiny that has been given to that area of the law. Pennsylvania is probably 10 years behind where California was or is right now. And when Areva mentions Judge Pierseky (ph), I know judges aren't supposed to think about that, but Judge Pierseky (ph) was the first judge ever recalled. And I believe 80 years in California. And that was all because he made a decision to give that young man a probationary sentence. Judges have to think about that. It's one of the dirty little secrets of the criminal justice system is that judges are human, too.

BLITZER: A couple of hours ago, Areva, the judge in this case, Steven O'Neill, ruled that Bill Cosby will be deemed a sexually violent predator for the rest of his life. Tell our viewers what that means.

AREVA MARTIN: It means he will be on a sexual predator registry. When he goes to a community, the community will be alerted there's a sexual predator in their community. This is a legal question by this judge. There are pending actions against Bill Cosby. There are seven women in Massachusetts that have a pending defamation action and also women in California. Will information be used by those plaintiffs' attorney? Will they leverage that information to gain an advantage in getting those cases settled and actually be successful in the trial if those cases do proceed to trial? So the judge's determination today has serious ramifications for Bill Cosby in terms of how he lives out the rest his life and how he handles the civil actions pending against him.

BLITZER: We'll have the extensive live coverage of the decision by this judge. That's coming up momentarily, we're told. Whether or not Bill Cosby goes to jail for two years, three years, five years, 10 years. The defense says he shouldn't go to jail at all. He is now deemed a sexually violent predator.

Everybody, stand by. Brooke Baldwin will pick up our breaking news coverage right now.

[14:00:11] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.