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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
What Drove Dad To Allegedly Kill His Family; Dad Shocked To Hear He`s Now Famous; Dad Disposes Bodies, then Goes On TV. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired September 26, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A monster. He is a monster who let us comfort him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just didn`t seem like the type of guy to injure a fly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Chris Watts a monster or simply misunderstood?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t want to believe it was him. Nobody knew him wanted to believe it was him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, brand-new reports from the jail where the former family man awaits his murder trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris is alone in his cell for 23 hours a day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hear how he is allegedly reacting to all the news about him.
Plus tying up loose ends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine how they`re feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is Shanann`s family doing back where their babies were murdered?
SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what was Shanann like well before Chris?
S. WATTS: I was single for a long time. I lost a lot of friends. I`ve never given up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her former teacher talks exclusively to us about the person she was.
S. WATTS: I worked and worked and worked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before her alleged killer came into the picture.
S. WATTS: He is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice." We have breaking news
right now out of Colorado tonight and specifically from Saratoga trail, the street where the Watts family once used to lived very peacefully. That is
the street where Chris Watts had a work truck park out front, a common sight outside of that happy home. But that home has been empty for six
weeks. The family that once lived inside is not coming back.
And today, instead of daddy`s work truck, a very different truck was sitting outside. A moving truck with a whole team of people filling it up
with things from inside that house. And presumably about to drive it to a facility, a warehouse where the company tells us it will sit until they get
instruction as to where it is to be delivered.
Welcome, everyone. We have even more breaking news that I want to share with you as well. That moving company tells us that apparently there was a
call made for an order of about 3,500 pounds. It was a home move. We don`t know at this point if they dispatched moving employees or whether
this was something just the family or friends of Shanann Watts had planned to organize, but we can tell you this, that a witness, a source tells us,
saw Shanann`s father Frank who was moving a bed frame at the time out of the house and into the truck. They said that they could say - they notice
that he was red faced and sweaty, perhaps he had been moving more things prior to when they saw him moving the bed frame.
They also said they saw him moving to what look like a mirror covered in a blanket out of that home. Frank Senior, Frank Rzucek Senior, Shanann`s
father apparently not the only person who was there, moving things out of this home. We`re also told by the source that there was a woman in her 30s
with brown hair who was with him, helping in this move.
We can also say that there were police there. There was a police presence. It looked like a Deputy. Not sure what agency, but the source did say it
appeared a sheriff`s Deputy`s vehicle was present as well, possibly to ensure that there was nothing that went awry, that there was no stress or
issues in terms of moving these possessions out of the home.
The moving company, you can see on the side of that truck, is the old dominion moving company. It`s an old dominion moving truck. Here is what
I can tell you about moving, if you`ve ever done it. It`s very perfunctory when you make the order. You tell them what you have, they tell you what
it is in pounds and they usually tell you what size truck you`re going to need. That is a very large truck. That is not just moving a couple of
things out. That is a truck that can -- more than likely move a five- bedroom house. The order was for 3500 pounds, the average house is a thousand pounds per room, so maybe 3 1/2 rooms is being moved or at least
was planned with the size of that truck. The average studio apartment is 1,800 to 2,000 pounds. So, if they were ordering a truck for 3,500 pounds,
they`re moving a lot of things out of that house or at least they are planning to move a lot of things out of that house.
I think we might even have someone on the phone right now named -- I`m not sure if I can mention this person`s name. Can the producers tell me if
we`re -- OK. I can at least call the next guest I am getting, Susan. Susan, can you hear me?
[18:05:09] SUSAN: Yes, I can.
BANFIELD: This is all sort of breaking as we`re live -- going to live in the last five minutes of this program. Can you let me know, are you the
person who witnessed this truck outside the Watts home?
SUSAN: Yes, I did, I just happened to be here on that route and saw the moving truck it in front of the house.
BANFIELD: What else did you see? I mean, there`s a couple of things I just reported in terms of Shanann Watts` father, Frank Rzucek Sr., moving a
bed frame and what appeared to be a mirror. Did you see anything else moved out?
SUSAN: No. Actually, an eyewitness did notice that each time they loaded something, they would move it to the back up the moving truck. That kind
of caught my eye. I was just driving by, and Frank turned around and looked at me as he was going up the ramp to load the item onto the truck.
BANFIELD: And do you actually know Frank Rzucek Senior, Shanann`s father?
SUSAN: No, I`ve only seen pictures of him. That is why I instantly recognized him.
BANFIELD: Did you recognize the woman, the 30-year-old-ish woman who was with him?
SUSAN: No, I didn`t. There were several other vehicles parked in front of the house or in close proximity. So, I didn`t know if maybe it was
friends. They all had Colorado plates.
BANFIELD: They all had Colorado plates, several other vehicles. Did you notice other people other than those two who you identify as Frank Rzucek
Sr., Shanann`s father, and an unidentified woman in her 30-ish with brown hair. Did you notice anybody else helping in this process?
SUSAN: No, those were the only two people.
BANFIELD: All right. And how many vehicles did you see in addition to the moving truck?
SUSAN: There were -- and some of them could have been from neighbors, but right in front of the house there were two. One was a Ford SUV. And I
can`t recall what the other one was.
BANFIELD: Was the garage door open in the home at the time you drove by?
SUSAN: No, it was closed. They appeared to be moving things out the front door.
BANFIELD: So the front door was wide open as you went by?
SUSAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: And then were you able to see if there was perhaps a Lexus? Because Shanann used to drive a Lexus. And at the time of the -- I guess
the offing`s of the crime that the genesis of this being a crime, Nicole Atkinson, a friend of Shanann said she saw Shanann`s Lexus inside the
garage with the car seat inside, and I`m just wondering if it`s still there.
SUSAN: That I wouldn`t know. I definitely -- this truck was so big, it literally blocks the whole -- the entire front of the house and the
driveway, but when I was returning and driving the other direction, I did not see any vehicles parked in the driveway and the garage was definitely
shut.
BANFIELD: And also, can you tell me whether this is happening right now, as we speak, or was this earlier today, or might it be all of the above?
SUSAN: This was actually just about two hours ago.
BANFIELD: Can you repeat that?
SUSAN: It was about two hours ago when I --
BANFIELD: About two hours ago.
SUSAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: Were you able to see -- I know this is difficult for you, because you were just driving by, but were you able to see whether the
moving truck was filled, meaning they were finishing the job, or did it look as though they were just starting?
SUSAN: I couldn`t really tell. And again, when I came back the other direction, which was probably 45 minutes later, the door portion of the
truck was completely closed. So you couldn`t see.
BANFIELD: And I also note that you mentioned to one of our producers that Frank Rzucek Sr., as you were driving by, turned around, looked at you and
smiled. This is such a difficult time. I think without question, for Shanann`s family, but also for people like you who are connected to this
community. You don`t live on this street, correct?
SUSAN: No, I don`t, but it was almost like, you know, this case, of course, has affected so many people, but almost seeing him and the moving
of things and then having him smile, it just really kind of broke my heart and made it even more real, realer than it has obviously been to everyone.
BANFIELD: And I guess the question would be, how did you feel when that happened when you saw what you saw, and you know what happened there and
you know what`s happening now?
[18:10:05] SUSAN: It really -- again, it broke my heart to know that a parent would need to go through all the belongings of each daughter, but
their granddaughters. And it`s just -- it is not uncommon, of course, for parents to help in a move, but under this type of condition and situation,
I just -- for him to even have a little bit of a smile on his face, it kind of gave me some reassurance that even though I know his heart is breaking,
he is going to be OK. It kind of was reassuring to me in a way.
BANFIELD: Are you familiar with the Watts family or anybody in that community?
SUSAN: People in the community, but not the Watts family, no.
BANFIELD: How are they doing? Everyone is so incredibly tight-lipped about this. Frankly, Susan, it`s a very odd case for us to cover, because
typically in a case like Scott Petersen or Casey Anthony, or anything that is high profile like this, people talk, and sometimes it`s to vent or wear
their heart on their sleeve or to support a victim, just to say something, even to voice frustration or angst or anger or sadness, but in this case,
almost no one is. What are you hearing from the people in that community?
SUSAN: Well, I know everyone is affected in some way, but you`re correct, not too many people are talking about it, although I will say that in that
neighborhood, I don`t know if it`s been reported prior, but there are purple ribbons and bows still up on a lot of the light poles that are as
you drive through the neighborhood.
So I know that it`s in remembrance of them, but this is a very small subdivision or community that they live in. The houses are very close.
And there`s a lot of construction going on directly behind their house. And so I would say it`s not an overpopulated area that they lived in.
BANFIELD: And Susan, you actually have to drive by this house on your way to work. Have you seen much activity at this home since the crime?
SUSAN: No. Not really. Not until today.
BANFIELD: What have you seen at that home?
SUSAN: It just pretty much looks like everybody else`s house that people have gone to work. Their garage doors are shut. There`s -- you know, the
weather in Colorado has been so hot this summer, and today was just a beautiful, cool day, which was another thing that kind of struck me, that,
you know, the weather that they would be, you know, moving on this day, and it just was a picture perfect day outside. You can see the mountains
behind the house, but really, I in particular have not seen any activity.
BANFIELD: Susan, one other question, and it may speak to the number of weeks it`s been since this crime. We`re approaching seven. You mentioned
the purple ribbons, that, you know, the town spent a lot of money giving out the ribbons for people to put up in memorial to this woman and her
children.
And then after that, people turned out themselves to build a makeshift memorial on the doorstep of that house. I mean, they turned out in droves.
There were bears and candles and notices and placard boards. You can see here in this picture a cross. Is any of that still there, or is it now
almost as though it`s hard to know whatever happened in that house?
SUSAN: I did look on my way back, and I did not see any of the memorials that had been left before which were kind of on the front lawn or anything
on the front porch. I think it`s all been removed.
BANFIELD: Susan, I can`t thank you enough, especially at this very late hour, for answering our call and then coming on the air. This has all been
breaking in the last few minutes. So we do appreciate you in a sense of urgency joining us to give us, you know, just a sort of straight from the
horse`s mouth, the direct reporting from the scene of what`s happening at that home.
I think a lot of people have been wondering, what happens now? You know, those children and that mother are never coming home. Chris Watts may
never come home. And so it`s been a ghost town, effectively, in that home, but for family members who have come back to collect some possessions and
belongings, and then now today something much more, perhaps a lot more in that house, perhaps the value of that house.
There`s a lot more to discuss about this. And we will discuss that in a moment.
[18:15:00] And then there`s also this. I have said over and over on this program that Steve Helling with "People" magazine has been breaking a lot
of news. And he is at it again. Steve Helling from "People" magazine after the break, is going to tell you, just a little bit more about what
Chris` big concerns are as he sits behind bars. And let me tell you this as a teaser, this stuff we just said is going to be added to it. Find out
how he is feeling, next.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: In this country an accused criminal is innocent until proven guilty. And you have heard that before. You have probably heard it this
week in fact, but it`s hard to remember that Chris Watts could be innocent. When what we know about him is so unbelievably two-face. Because he
started out squeaky clean, the epitome of a good dad, the good husband, but police say he killed those adorable little girls and admitted to strangling
his own wife Shanann.
And we haven`t seen all the evidence yet. We`ve barely seen the tip of the iceberg. But what investigators have on him so far doesn`t make it look
good for this daddy, especially in a death penalty state. Which makes you wonder. What is going through Chris Watts` head as he is sitting in jail
all alone in a cell, 23 hours a day, , and all this media coverage is swirling around in the free world?
As I mentioned, Steve Helling with "People" magazine has impeccable sources and it turns out has a lot of them and they go very deep into this case.
You`ve been breaking, you know, bombshell after bombshell on this case Steve Helling and now you`re breaking bombshell after bombshell about what
Chris Watts is upset about. What is bothering him as he is in the cell? I want you to hold on that for one second, and I am going to get that from
you in just one second, but I am also going to ask David Beller to join us right now. He is a Colorado defense attorney. And David, I think it is
critical that you join us in this conversation, because in the last 21 minutes we just had this news kind of flooding in to us about the moving
truck outside of the Watts home and the fact that Shanann Watts, at least one family member was there moving possessions out.
I think this is critical to note that, that is a home filled with brand-new furniture, very fancy electronics, extraordinarily expensive belongings, a
lot of special decorative things. It`s a five-bedroom home that would be worth a lot of money inside. And some of those possessions, you can see it
in the videos that Shanann Watts posted, would be worth a lot of money. Who owns this stuff right now? Because Shanann may be dead, but she has a
will, presumably, and she would have some rights to these things as well as the man behind bars. Lay this out for me.
DAVID BELLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s a great question, Ashleigh. And at this point what we know is that the police held onto the home at
least for a certain period of time. They have now collected everything that they believe has evidentiary value for use in the prosecution of Mr.
Watts.
It`s very likely that the home and the contents have been turned over to Shanann`s family. And that tells us a few things. Namely that the
prosecution doesn`t intend to hold onto the home any longer and it`s very likely that a jury, if there is a jury in this case, is never going to see
the inside of that home, because it`s now been given to Shanann`s family.
BANFIELD: And Shanann`s family, you would understand they would want to get into that home and get the special things and get what is left of their
precious family, but at the same time, does Chris Watts, as a living breathing inmate at this point, in a jail, have any rights to his things or
the value of them? My guess is there are tens of thousands of dollars` worth of goods. Like I said, the electronics, the appliances, the decor,
the beds, the furniture, the bedroom suites, et cetera. Would he have any rights to those?
BELLER: He absolutely does. And in fact, the argument is, and what Colorado law says, is that Chris Watts is in fact Shanann`s next of kin.
And so all of those items are very likely the possession now of Chris Watts, but given the situation he is in, given the fact that Chris Watts is
not going to have access to let alone need any of those items for a long time, his best interest is to look past them, to allow Shanann Watts to
take possession of them. It`s clear that that is in fact what`s happening.
BANFIELD: However, Chris Watts may not want the comfy couch, but he may want the tens of thousands of dollars that he is going to need,
potentially, even though he has a public defender. But it`s just a fascinating development. And I think a lot of people have wondered what`s
happening inside that empty, lonely home.
David, thank you for a moment. If you could step down just for one second, I want to get Steve Helling back up with his breaking news. Once again,
you`ve been able to pry information from a source which the rest of us have found airtight, but you have information from inside the cell. And Chris
Watts` personal thoughts. What did you find?
[18:25:00] STEVE HELLING, SENIOR WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, to start with, you know, you were the one who broke the news that he was on suicide
watch. You were the one to break the news that he was in his cell 23 hours a day, and that the only times he ever got out was to go into this other
little room where there was a newspaper, usually.
BANFIELD: The hour out room, they call it. I never heard of it that way, but my source in the jail told me, the hour out room, but go ahead.
HELLING: So you broke all that. And the interesting thing was that because he is in that room all the time and because he is really not having
much contact with everybody, he wasn`t reading that newspaper, he didn`t realize, he figured that this case was a local news story. He knew that
some national news had been sniffing around, but he didn`t know that this story has been nonstop day after day after day. National news outlets,
everybody. And this is international news. And he didn`t realize that.
And so at some point he did get wind of that. Whether that is from a guard, whether that is from another inmate, or whether that is from the
newspaper, we don`t know, but the person who I spoke with who had spoken with him said he is not happy that this is international news. He also
says if people really knew who he was, if people really knew the situation, they would have a very different conclusion of who he is than what the news
is reporting.
That is his -- that is what he is saying to people right now, that we don`t know everything that happened, and if we did, we would change our minds.
BANFIELD: But you know as well as I do, Steve, that we do know something about him. We watched him on television lie to us through his teeth over
and over, not just one interview where he slipped in a lie. We watched him over and over, television station after television station appearing at his
front door, begging us, staring us straight in the eye and spewing lies through his teeth.
So, who is he to say we don`t know him? He gave us a delivery, he gift wrapped him and sent it to us via this little ditty, this interview on
television. What does this mean, he doesn`t want us to think he is a monster? I mean, who the hell buries their bloody family in oil in a
shallow grave and isn`t going to be called a monster at some point?
HELLING: I mean, we`ve seen this before. You and I sat next to each other during Casey Anthony who always said, oh, if we knew the truth, we would
like her. No. That is what happens. And so in this case he is saying we don`t know the whole story that we have jumped to conclusions and he is not
happy that this is such a big news story.
BANFIELD: You know, I encourage everyone to pick up your magazine. Check it out online, buy the hard copy. And by the way, there`s always something
that is in the hard copy that is not in the online version, I learned that the hard way, so you can`t just go online, you have to buy the magazine
too, always a few extra two or three little nuggets that Steve has been able to pulled out in a very difficult story to report.
This piece that you got, the quote, that he is not the monster. That he wants people to realize he is not the monster everyone said he is, do you
remember the story of (inaudible), who murdered Jessica Lunsford, after raping her for days in his trailer, he grabbed her from out of her bed,
from just around the corner. He raped her for days in his trailer, and then he put her in a plastic bag alive and buried her alive in his
backyard. That man also uttered those words, I`m not a monster, I gave her little stuffed dolphin when I was burying her, I am not a monster. That is
what came to my mind when I saw your reporting Steve, that this guy, Chris Watts, doesn`t want everyone to believe he is a monster.
HELLING: Yes, I mean, you know, we hear that a lot. And the interesting thing is that you and I do things now and then that we think, oh, I was
just a monster there. And it`s interesting that people who really have done something sometimes don`t even see it. They think there`s mitigating
circumstances. I don`t know what he could possibly tell me about -- let`s take one thing, the oil drums. I don`t know what he could possibly tell me
about that that would make me say, that is not a monstrous thing to do.
BANFIELD: You know, you nailed it. Let`s just say he`s story in the house is true. Let us just say that, OK. Because he is entitled to that
defense, but everything else that happened afterwards is monstrous. There is no way to chop that up in any other way.
I want to show a couple other quick piece of reporting here that we just found out in the last few -- not even an hour, last few minutes, I would
say. It turns out as that moving truck is at that home, clearing out at least the bed frame and the mirror and who knows what else, because it`s
3,500 pounds worth of order that that truck can accommodate and that is what the moving company said was ordered, we also know that the kitchen
cabinets in that kitchen were very special to Shanann`s family. And the reason is because Shanann`s father is a cabinet maker and Shanann`s father
built the cabinets. Shanann`s father also installed the cabinets in Shanann`s kitchen where she featured them so heavily in her photographs and
in her Facebook posts and in her happy life broadcasts. Shanann`s dad did those. And who knows if perhaps Shanann dad wanted those special cabinets
back, perhaps he uninstalled those cabinets.
I don`t know if we have the picture of the little orange stool that was always featured so heavily in the kids` postings, but the little kids were
always playing on that stool. There you go, see that? I think that might be Celeste playing in the orange stool. And there is Chris.
Guess what, that was also built by Shanann`s dad. That was also a gift. That little orange stool that the children absolutely adored, at least they
were on it all the time, stepped up on it to see what was up on the counter, they played on it, they chewed it, what little kid doesn`t chew a
stool?
Shanann`s dad made it and maybe that is in the moving truck that sat outside that house today. At least I sure hope it was. Shanann Watts was
very open on her Facebook videos, not just about the cabinets, the kitchen, but also about her high school, and the struggles that she had,
insecurities that she had when she was younger.
Straight ahead, you`re going to hear from someone who knew her then and says she was a very different person. Matt Francis was her high school
drama teacher, her theater teacher. He is joining us next to share the memories of the student he says grew up to be his lifelong friend until
seven weeks ago.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just went to Mexico for a week. It`s the holidays. I`ve been eating candy. Halloween. Thanks, Kristie. I`m so excited.
I`m super excited about Vegas. I can`t wait to find out where we`re going in June.
I chose to make my life better. I chose to take all of my negative things that have happened to me in my lifetime, bottled them up and put it inside
me and it empowered me to be the person I am and I`m becoming.
This saves me every morning. Oh, my god, I`m having way too much fun right here.
Have a wonderful day, I love you all, and enjoy today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: If you were friends with Shanann Watts on Facebook, you got used to seeing a lot of videos like that, like a lot, a lot of videos like that.
Because Shanann Watts was marketing a product that she said changed her life.
But Shanann was also sharing her family and sharing her travels and sharing her dreams in these videos, with the confidence at times of a celebrity,
letting other people into her world. No holds barred.
And to some Facebook friends, that was a good sign because Shanann was not always that confident. And how do we know that? Because Shanann`s teachers
knew her when. And Matt Francis was Shanann`s theater teacher at Pinecrest High School, and he is kind enough to join us now.
Matt, thank you for being with us. First and foremost, I`m very sorry for your loss. You weren`t just her ninth grade teacher, you became a very
close friend of hers. You continued a friendship with her right up until, as I understand it, I think two weeks before she died, you last
communicated with her, right?
MATT FRANCIS, SHANANN`S HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Yes, that`s correct. I found out -- I found out kind of late, too. But yeah, she was doing a convention
over there, and I was just so impressed with her doing Facebook live and the way she did it and the way she had become such an encourager. I just
gave her a big how much I`m proud of her on the Facebook live message.
BANFIELD: And she wasn`t like that when you were her teacher at 14 years old. You describe a very different person. Who was she then?
FRANCIS: Yeah, so --
(LAUGHTER)
FRANCIS: -- you would be amazed at how far she`s come. She`s a wonderful, beautiful human being who learned the power of giving your life away, I
think, brings true joy. She was a very insecure young lady who didn`t have a lot of friends when I met her at 14 years old. But she was brave enough
to sign up for beginning acting. I think that`s where she made a big mistake, in her mind.
BANFIELD: Tell me about that.
FRANCIS: We had -- a lot of kids took theater in ninth grade. We had 35 to 40 kids in her class. They did that to me twice at Pinecrest. I didn`t mind
at all, because I had a great technique for working with that many kids. But right away she got in there, she realized immediately that we are all
about ensemble.
I even made sure people understood I wasn`t the most important person in the room. The ensemble is the most important thing. Looking at other people
as bigger than yourself is how you can succeed in theater, no matter whether it is on tech crew or it is on the acting side. Even to this day,
when I teach acting, it`s all about the ensemble. People actually have to sign a contract.
So when she came in, she realized she was with a group of people who were much more outgoing than she was at the time. But she also realized that
they cared about her and were just as interested in her succeeding.
[18:39:58] So, I think she started to really thrive and started to give her life away. I`m very improvisational base, so she even started
contributing on --
BANFIELD: You know, the person you are describing, it`s so different than the person who we see on Facebook. I mean, she just seemed so confident,
and yet you say she spent a lot of time in your office looking for advice. She was teased a lot. She had a low self-image.
FRANCIS: Yeah. She did not have a good self-image of herself at 14 years old. I want to make it very clear. I don`t take any credit for it at all.
All I did was really heard Shanann and I joked with her all the time. Her name was, you know, Shanann --
BANFIELD: Tell us about that because a lot of people have made sort of a lot of -- I guess theories about the pronunciation of her name. I`ve heard
her pronounce her own name on her Facebook videos, Shanann.
But she, you know, in her -- at her memorial, the program at the church spelled her name with the proper spelling, S-H-A-N apostrophe A-N-N. How
did she pronounce it when she was at school?
FRANCIS: Here is what I will say because ever since I knew her, it was always "Shana Ann." I would break it up into two syllables. Two separate
things, you know. So that`s how I`ve always knew it and joked with her. She never corrected me in three years of being with me. But I don`t want to --
I mean, she could have changed the way she wanted it pronounced later in life.
BANFIELD: Let me ask you this, Matt. The reason we found out about you at all was because you found something after you attended her funeral. You
were moving and when we move, we find all sorts of stuff from our past, you know, tucked away in nooks and crannies in our homes.
And you found a letter that Shanann had written to you fairly recently. And if I can, I just want to -- when I say fairly recently, I think it was as
you were leaving Pinecrest in 2002. I want to read for our viewers what the letter said.
I think we even have a picture of the card and the note and the signature, what it looks like. You posted it on Facebook. Let`s pop that up on the
air. And I`m going to read some of the things that she wrote to you.
I just wanted you to know that I am going to miss you dearly. You are truly something special to me. You have always been there for me and have been
very helpful. You helped bring out the true person in me back in ninth grade, and I can`t thank you enough for that.
Not only have you been there for me as a friend, but you have also been like a father figure to me. I wish you the best of luck. Thank you so much
for being a wonderful teacher and friend. I will never forget you. Love always.
When you found that, Matt, what happened? What did you think?
FRANCIS: Well, there`s a lot to it. I mean, the Shanann that we just described in ninth grade and the Shanann that she became before I left, she
became a rock for me. She learned that giving her life away meant so much more and she became like a stage manager and a production person.
She was always there to help with the tech group but she would also work amazingly with the actors. She had a level of empathy like a lot of people
today just don`t. So, to find out that this happened to her, I mean, I`m still -- I still don`t believe it`s true. It`s so mind-boggling because
she`s really, truly one of the good ones, one of the amazing ones who really saw hurting people out there.
So, when I found that, I thought it was such a gift, because I just come back from the funeral. They had the three caskets there. It was so hard to
see someone that was just that amazing, that someone could do that. And on top of it, as a father and a husband, someone who would betray that trust
to protect those little babies and that wife, and to see it happen to her of all people.
So there was two layers to it. One was the funeral, which was very hard. Then coming home and just cleaning out the garage, honestly, I was not
looking for it. I just found this thing, and it was all this huge card from one of my classes, and there was this little card from Shanann. It was one
of the first things that I opened and read.
I couldn`t believe it, I thought it was such a treasure. It just reminded me of how far she had come. My hope is, honestly, I love what the family is
doing and I want to make sure we highlight that, shine like Shanann. Hashtag shine like Shanann.
Because that woman in her light and legacy, she did enough in her short amount of time to affect people`s lives for a long time to come, I think.
That`s what it reminded me of. That`s why I posted it. Honestly, I know there are people out there who think I was trying to get --
[18:45:00] I had no intention of you guys interviewing me. My goal was to put it out there so some of her former classmates can say, hey, guys, we
now get to hold her light and legacy. You know, we can`t ever forget who this person was, and help encourage them to be part of that.
BANFIELD: You know, without question, I think a lot of people agree with you who never knew her and just started to get to know her just through her
Facebook videos and, sadly, posthumously, because they might not have been drawn to this person but for seeing this on their television or in their
newspapers.
And so the fact that you pay such tribute to her the way you do, I think it`s very special, Matt, and I thank you very much. I know this isn`t easy
to do and I know you probably didn`t want to, but I do appreciate you telling us a little bit more about this person.
FRANCIS: Can I ask just one more quick thing? I want justice like everybody else for this person that killed her. I want the family to have
justice. He needs justice. But I also want to make sure that we say, we`ve got to get better as a culture of seeing hurting people because that`s how
we avoid things like this from happening.
Sometimes we have to interrupt our life and go outside of our comfort zone, like Shanann did all the time. She surrounded herself with people sometimes
that just needed encouragement. She saw hurting people.
If anything that I could encourage people to be part of when it comes to Shanann, please, you know, see those hurting people out there and try to
just go out and reach out to them and just listen to them for a minute to try to avoid things like this happening with people.
BANFIELD: I agree. I think you`re right. And I think online people are hurting people as well in this story. I think --
FRANCIS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: -- you have experienced that firsthand. And again, thank you, Matt. I wish we could have met under different circumstances. I wish you
were my teacher. You seem like a really great guy. Matt Francis, Shanann`s ninth grade theater teacher.
Coming up next, something that Matt just alluded to, the fair trial, the fair process and justice, that means there`s a defense team working
feverishly, feverishly right now. They don`t have anything. No discovery. No cause of death. No nothing. So, what exactly are they doing? We`ll find
out next.
[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: It hasn`t been very long, but the defense team for Chris Watts has got to be doing something. I mean, they could be facing death penalty,
right? So, with that in mind, listen to this Facebook question from Roger Ambrose (ph).
I beg your pardon. That is not the question from Roger Ambrose (ph). I beg your pardon. But that is the big question right now. What is the defense
team doing right now? What exactly can they do, given they have so little to go on? No discovery. No cause of death. Just a guy in an orange suit.
I want to bring in David Beller, real quick, a defense attorney. Tell me, how on earth would they be starting the case?
BELLER: At this point, what they`re really trying to do is to answer the question of why. We know that the government says what happened but the
defense is working feverishly to figure out the why of what happened and to do their own investigation here.
BANFIELD: Will they just be blocking everything that comes from the prosecution until they know just exactly what it is they`re facing and they
get some discovery and they know what strategy they have to actually, you know, pursue?
BELLER? Yeah, at this point, it`s really too early for them to actually set their sights on a defense. They simply don`t know. They`re trying to
gather the evidence. They`re trying to block the prosecution from getting more evidence from Mr. Watts, and really asking Mr. Watts and investigating
to the why did this happen question.
BANFIELD: Yeah. I wonder how many proven (ph) questions they really want to know. I have often heard lawyers say, don`t tell me that, I don`t want
to know that.
Let me bring in Tom Verni real quickly. Tom, as a former NYPD detective and law enforcement consultant, I can only imagine the volumes of evidence
coming out of this case, that eventually those defense attorneys are going to get from the Frederick police, from the sheriff, from all the forensic
investigators that look over the electronics. I mean, how much evidence are we talking about?
TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: So far it seems like they`ve gathered a lot of evidence. There is a lot of physical evidence, electronic evidence
that we talked about with the camera, phones, cell sites and all that.
BANFIELD: E-mails.
VERNI: E-mails. And then on top of everything else, don`t forget, he`s admitted that he killed her.
BANFIELD: Yeah.
VERNI: Right? He is saying that she killed the children.
BANFIELD: By the way, what about the actual burial site? That`s got do be a massive truckload of physical evidence as well that has to be processed
and eventually handed over to the defense.
VERNI: Yeah, exactly. And again, so in any case, that`s what really drives home a case a lot of times. Aside from whether or not you have an admission
of guilt, you know, you need the physical evidence, the evidence to come forward and say, beyond reasonable doubt, this is the guy, we know he is
the one that did it.
And it seems like there is such a mountain that any defense attorney is really going to have a really tough time trying to say he didn`t do it when
you have the evidence showing that he did and then you have his admission saying that he did. I don`t know. As far as him, you know, feeling that the
media is treating him unfairly, well, too bad.
BANFIELD: Too bad. When you`re charged with, you know, nine felonies including killing your kids and burying them in oil, that`s going to
happen.
[18:55:00] Thank you, Tom. Thank you to all my guests as well. We have a whole lot more coming up. Next hour of "Crime & Justice" begins in a
moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He`s a monster, and he`s a monster who let us comfort him.
[18:59:58] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He just didn`t seem like the type of guy to injure a fly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Is Chris Watts a monster or simply misunderstood?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I didn`t want to believe it was him. Nobody that knew him wanted to believe that it was him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Tonight, brand new reports from the jail where the former family man awaits his murder trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris is alone in his cell for 23 hours a day.
BANFIELD: Hear how he`s reacting to all the news about him plus tying up loose ends?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine how they`re feeling.
BANFIELD What is Shanann`s family doing back where their babies were murdered? And what was Shanann like well before Chris?
SHANANN WATTS, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: I was single for a long time. I lost a lot of friends. I`ve never given up.
BANFIELD: Her former teacher talks exclusively to us about the person she was.
SHANANN WATTS: I worked and worked and worked.
BANFIELD: Before her alleged killer came into the picture.
SHANANN WATTS: he`s the best thing that has ever happened to me.
BANFIELD: Good evening everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and Justice. And we have breaking news right now out of Colorado tonight and
specifically from Saratoga Trail, the street where the Watts` family used to live very peacefully. That`s the street where Chris Watts had a work
truck parked out front. A common sight outside of that happy home.
But that home has sat empty for six weeks, the family that once lived inside is not coming back, and today instead of daddy`s work truck, a very
different truck was sitting outside, a moving truck with a whole team of people filling it up with things from inside that house and presumably
about to drive it to a facility, to a warehouse where the company tells us it will sit until they get instruction as to where it will be delivered.
Welcome every one. And we have even more breaking news that I want to share with you as well. That moving company tells us that apparently there
was a call made for an order of 3500 pounds. It was a home move.
We don`t know at this point if they dispatched moving employees or whether this was something just the family or friends of Shanann Watts had planned
to organize. But we can tell you this. That a witness, a source tells us, saw Shanann`s father Frank who was moving a bed frame at the time, out of
the house and into the truck. They said that they could say -- they noticed in a he was red faced and sweaty, perhaps he had been moving more
things prior to when they saw him moving the bed frame.
They said they also saw him moving a mirror covered in a blanket out of that home and Frank senior, Frank Rzucek senior, Shanann`s father
apparently not the only person who was there moving things out of this home. We`re also told by this source that there was a woman in her 30s
with brown hair was with him helping in this move.
We can also say there were police there. There was a police presence. It looked like a deputy not sure what agency. But the source did say it
appeared a sheriff`s deputy`s vehicle was present as well possibly to ensure nothing went awry. That there were no stress or issues in terms of
moving these possessions out of the home.
The moving company as you can you see on the side of that truck is the Old Dominion Moving Company. It`s an Old Dominion Moving truck. And here`s
what I can tell you about moving if you`ve ever done it. It`s very perfunctory when you make the order. You tell them what you have. They
tell them how many pounds, and they tell you what size truck you`ll need.
That is a very large truck. That`s not just moving a couple of things out. That`s a truck that can more than likely move a five bedroom house. The
order was for 3500 pounds. The average house is 1,000 pounds per room. So maybe three and half rooms is being moved or at least was planned with the
size of that truck.
The average studio apartment is 1800 to 2,000 pounds so if they were ordering a truck for 3,500 pounds, they`re moving a lot of things out of
that house or at least they are planning to move a lot of things out of that house. And I think we might have someone on the phone right now named
-- I`m not sure if I can mention this person`s name. Can the producers tell me if we`re --
OK, I can at least call the next guest I`m getting, Susan. Susan, can you hear me?
SUSAN, GUEST OF CRIME AND JUSTICE: Yes, I can.
BANFIELD: This is all sort of breaking as we`re live -- going to live in the last five minutes of this program. Can you let me know, are you the
person who witnessed this truck outside of the Watts` home?
SUSAN: Yes, I did. I just happened to be driving that route and saw the moving truck outside of the house.
BANFIELD: What else did you see? I mean there`re a couple things I just reported, in terms of Shanann Watts father Frank Rzucek Sr. moving a bed
frame and what appeared to be a mirror. Did you see anything else being moved out?
SUSAN: No. Those were actually something that I witnessed. I did notice each time they loaded something, they just closed the back of the moving
truck. So that kind of caught my eye. For the most part, I was driving by, and I -- frank turned around and looked at me as he was going up the
ramp to load the item on to the truck.
BANFIELD: And do you actually know Frank Rzucek senior? Shanann`s father?
SUSAN: No, I`ve only seen pictures of him. That`s where I instantly recognized him.
BANFIELD: Did you recognize the woman, the 30 year old-ish woman who was with him?
SUSAN: No, I didn`t. I didn`t know if there was -- there were several other vehicles parked in front of the house or in close proximity, so I
didn`t know if maybe it was friends. They all had Colorado plates.
BANFIELD: They all had Colorado plates, several other vehicles. Did you notice other people other than those two who you identify as Frank Rzucek`s
senior 0Shanann`s father and unidentified woman in her 30`s with brown hair. Did you notice anybody else helping in this process?
SUSAN: No, those were the only two people.
BANFIELD: All Right, and how many vehicles did you see in addition to the moving truck?
SUSAN: There were -- some of them could have been neighbors but there right in front of a house there were two. I know one was a Ford SUV. And
I can`t recall what the other one was but --
BANFIELD: Was the garage door open in the home at the time you drove by?
SUSAN: No. No, it was closed. They were -- appeared to be moving things out the front door.
BANFIELD: So the front door was wide open as you went by?
SUSAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: And then were you able to see if there was a Lexus? Because Shanann use to drive a Lexus, and at the time of the -- I guess the
offing`s of the crime, at the genesis of these being a crime scene, Nicole Atkinson, a friend of Shanann`s said she saw Shanann`s Lexus inside the
garage with the car seats inside. And I`m just wondering if it`s still there.
SUSAN: That I wouldn`t know. But definitely this truck is so big. It literally blocks the entire front of the house and the drive way. But when
I was returning and driving in the other direction, I did not see any vehicles parked in the drive way. And the garage was definitely shut.
BANFIELD: And also can you tell me whether this is happening right now as we speak? Or was this earlier today, or might it be all of the above?
SUSAN: This was actually just about two hours ago?
BANFIELD: Sorry. Can you repeat that?
SUSAN: It was about two hours ago when I --
BANFIELD: About two hours ago? Were you able to see? I know this is difficult for you because you were just driving by, but were you able to
see whether the moving truck was filled? Meaning they were finishing the job or did it look as though they were just starting?
SUSAN: I couldn`t really tell and again when I came back the other direction, which was probably 45 minutes later, the door portion of the
truck was completely closed. So you couldn`t see.
BANDFIELD: And I also know you mentioned to one of our producers that Frank Rzucek Sr. as you were driving by turned around, looked at you and
smiled. This is such a difficult time. I think without question for Shanann`s family, but also for people like you who are connected to this
community. You don`t live on this street, correct?
SUSAN: No, I don`t, but I -- it was almost like, you know, this case of course has affected so many people, but almost seeing him and the moving of
things, and having him smile it just, you know, really kind of broke my heart, made it even more real, realer than, you know, it`s obviously been
to everyone.
BANDFIELD: And I guess the question would be, how did you feel when that happened? And you saw what you saw, and you know what happened there and
you know what`s happening now?
SUSAN: It really, again it broke my heart to know that a parent would need to go through all of the belongings of not only their deceased daughter but
their grand daughters and it just you know it`s not uncommon of course for parents to help in a move, but under this type of condition and situation
I just -- for him to even have a little bit of a smile on this face, becoming -- needs some reassurance that even though I know his heart`s
breaking he`s going to be OK. You know it kind of was reassuring to me in a way.
BANFIELD: Are you familiar with the Watts family or anybody in that community?
SUSAN: People in the community, but not the Watts family, no.
BANFIELD: How are they doing? Everyone is so incredibly tight lipped about this. It`s -- frankly Susan it is a very odd case for us to cover,
typically in a case like Scott Peterson or Casey Anthony or anything that`s high profile like this, people talk and sometimes it`s to vent and wear
their heart on their sleeve or to support a victim just to say something even to voice frustration or angst or anger or sadness, in this case,
almost no one is. What are you hearing from the people in that community?
SUSAN: Well I know everyone`s affected in some way, but you`re correct, not too many people are talking about it. Although I will say that in that
neighborhood and I don`t know if this has been reported prior. But there are purple ribbons and bows still up on a lot of the light poles as you
drive through the neighborhood. So I know that it`s in remembrance of them. But it`s -- this is a very small subdivision or community that they
live in and the houses are very close, and there`s a lots of construction going on directly behind their house. And so I would say it`s not an over
populated area that they lived in.
BANFIELD: And Susan you actually have to drive by this house on your way to work. Have you seen much activity at this home?
SUSAN: No.
BANFIELD: Since the crime?
SUSAN: No, not really. Not until today
BANFIELD: What have you seen at that home?
SUSAN: It looks like everyone else`s house, people are going to work. Their garage door are shut. There`s, you know, the weather in Colorado has
been so hot this summer. and today was just a beautiful, cool day, which was another thing that kind of struck me, that the weather, that they would
be, you know, moving on this day, and it just was -- a picture perfect day outside. You could see the mountains behind the house and so but really, I
in particular have not seen any activity.
BANFIELD: Susan, one other question. And it may speak to the number of weeks it`s been since this crime. We`re approaching seven. You mentioned
that the purple ribbons, that, you know, the town spent a lot of money giving out the ribbons for people to put up in memorial to this woman and
her children. And then after that, people turned out themselves to build a makeshift memorial on the doorstep of that house. I mean they turned out
in droves and there were, you know, there were ears and candles and notices and placard boards and you can see here in this picture a cross. Is any of
that still there, or is it now it`s almost hard to know what happened in that house?
SUSAN: I did look on my way back. And I did not see any of the memorials that had been left before which were kind of on the front lawn or anything
on the front porch. But I think it`s all been removed.
BANFIELD: Susan, I can`t thank you enough, especially at this late hour for answering our call, and then coming on the air. This has all been
breaking in the last few minutes, we appreciate you and the sense of urgency joining us to give us, you know, just sort of that bit straight
from the horses mouth, the direct reporting from the scene of what`s happening at that home. I think a lot of people have been wondering, what
happens now? You know, those children and that mother are never coming home.
Chris watts may never come home. And so it`s been a ghost town effectively in that home. But for say family members who have come back to collect some
possessions and belongings and now today something much, much more perhaps a lot more in that house. perhaps the value of that house. There`s a lot
more to discuss about this and we will discuss that in a moment.
And then there`s also this. I have said over and over on this program, that Steve Helling with People Magazine has been breaking a lot of news, and
he`s at it again. Steve Helling and People Magazine after the break is going to tell just you a little bit more about what Chris`s big concerns
are as he sits behind bars. And let me tell you this as a teaser. This stuff we just said is going to be added to it. Find out how he`s feeling,
next
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: In this country an accused criminal is innocent until proven guilty and you have heard that before. You`ve probably heard it this week.
But it`s hard to believe Chris Watts could be innocent. When we what we know about him is so unbelievably two-faced. He started out squeaky clean,
the epitome of a good dad, the good husband. But police say he killed those adorable little girls and admitted to strangling his own wife Shanann.
We haven`t seen all the evidence yet. We`ve barely seen the tip of the iceberg. What investigates have on him so far doesn`t make it look good for
this daddy, especially in a death penalty state which makes you wonder. What is going through Chris Watts` head as he`s sitting in jail all alone,
23 hours a day, in a cell, and all this media coverage is swirling around in the free world?
As I mentioned, Steve Helling with People Magazine has impeccable sources and it turns out has a lot of them and they go very deep into this case.
You been breaking bombshell after bombshell in this case and now you`re breaking bombshell after bombshell about what Chris Watts is upset about,
what`s bothering him as he`s in his cell. I want you to hold on that for one second. And I`m going to get that from you in a second.
But I`ll ask David Beller to join us right now. He`s a Colorado Defense Attorney. And David, it`s critical you join us in this conversation
because in the last 21 minutes we had this news flooding in to us about the moving truck at the Watts home and the fact Shanann Watts, at least one
family member was there moving possessions out.
I think this is critical to note that is a home filled with brand-new furniture, very fancy electronics, extraordinarily expensive belongings, a
lot of special decorative things. It` is a five-bedroom home that would be worth a lot of money inside. And some of those possessions, you can see it
in the videos that Shanann Watts posted, would be worth a lot of money. Who owns this stuff right now? Because Shanann may be dead but she has a will,
presumably, and she would have some rights to these things as well as the man behind bars. Lay this out for me.
DAVID BELLER, COLORADO DEFENSE ATTORNEY: you know, it`s a great question, Ashleigh. And at this point what we know is that the police held onto the
home at least for a certain period of time. They have now collected everything they believe has evidentiary value for use in the prosecution of
Mr. Watts. It`s very likely that the home and the contents have been turned over to Shanann`s family.
And that tells us a few things. Namely that the prosecution doesn`t intend to hold onto the home any longer and it`s very likely that a jury, if there
is a jury in this family, is never going to see the inside of this home because it`s been given to Shanann`s family.
BANFIELD: And Shanann`s family, you would understand they would want to get into that home and get the special things and gets what`s left of their
previous family. But at the same time does Chris Watts as a living, breathing inmate at this point in a jail have any rights to his things or
the value of them? My guess is there are tens of thousands of dollars` worth of goods. Like I said, the electronics, the appliances, the decor,
the beds, the furniture, the suite, bedroom suites, et cetera. Would he have any rights to those?
BELLER: He absolutely does. And in fact, the argument is, and what Colorado law says, is that Chris Watts is in fact Shanann`s next of kin and
so all of those items are very likely the possession now of Chris Watts. But given the situation he`s in, given the fact that Chris Watts is not
going to have access to let alone need any of those items for a long time, his best interest is to look past them, to allow Shanann Watts to take
possession of them. And it`s clear that that`s in fact what`s happening.
BANFIELD: However, Chris Watts may not want the comfy couch but he may want the tens of thousands of dollars he`s going to need, potentially, even
though he has a public defender. But it`s a fascinating development and a lot of people have wondered what`s happening inside that empty, lonely
home.
David, thank you for a moment if you could step down just for one a second. I want to get Steve Helling back up with his breaking news. Once again,
you`ve been able to pry information from a source which the rest of us have found airtight. but you have information from inside the cell and Chris
Watts` personal thoughts. What did you find?
STEVE HELLING, PEOPLE MAGAZINE JOURNALIST: well, to start with, you know, you were the one who broke the news that he was on suicide watch. You were
the one to break the news that he was in his cell 23 hours a day, and that the only times he ever got out was to go into this other little room where
there was a newspaper, usually.
BANFIELD: The hour out room, they call it. I never heard of it that way, but my source told me, the hour out room. But go ahead.
HELLING: Right. So you broke all that. And the interesting thing was because he`s in that room all the time and because he`s really not having
much contact with everybody he wasn`t reading that newspaper, he didn`t realize, he figured that this case was a local news story. He knew that
some national news had been sniffing around. But he didn`t know that this story has been nonstop day after day after day, national news outlets,
everybody. This is international news.
And he didn`t realize that. And so at some point he did get wind of that whether that`s from a guard, whether that`s from another inmate, or whether
from the newspaper, we don`t know. But the person who I spoke with who had spoken with him said he`s not happy that this is international news.
He also says if people really knew who he was, if people rally knew the situation, they would have a very different conclusion of who he is than
what the news is reporting. That is his -- that`s what he is saying to people right now, that we don`t know everything that happened, and if we
did, we would change our minds.
BANFIELD: But you know as well as I do, Steve, that we do know something about him. We watched him on television lie to us through his teeth over
and over, not just one interview where he slipped in a lie. We watched him over and over, television station after television station appearing at his
front door, staring at us in the eye and spewing lies through his teeth. Who is he to say we don`t know him?
He gave us a delivery. He gift wrapped him and sent it to us via this little ditty, this interview on television. What does this mean, he
doesn`t want us to think he`s a monster? I mean who the hell buries their bloody family in oil in a shallow grave and isn`t going to be called a
monster at some point?
HELLING: Yes. I mean we`ve seen this before. You and I sat next to each other during Casey Anthony who always said, oh, if we knew the truth, we
would like her. No. that`s what happens and so in this case he`s saying we don`t know the whole story, that we have jumped to conclusions, and he`s
not happy that this is such a big news story.
BANFIELD: You know, I encourage everyone to pick up your magazine. Check it out online, buy the hard copy. By the way, there`s always something
that`s in the hard copy that`s not in the online version, I learned that the hard way. So you can`t just go online. You got to buy his magazine
too. There`s always an extra two or three little nuggets that Steve has been able to pull out in a very difficult story to report.
This piece that you got, the quote that he`s not the monster. He wants people to realize he`s not the monster everyone says he is. Do you remember
the story of the John Evander Couey, who murdered Jessica Lunsford after raping her for days in his trailer.
HELLING: I do.
BANFIELD: He grabbed her from out of her bed from just around the corner. He raped her for days in his trailer and then he put her in a plastic bag
alive --
HELLING: Plastic bag.
BANFIELD: And buried her alive in his backyard. That man also uttered those words. I`m not a monster. I gave her little stuffed dolphin. when I
was burying her. I`m not a monster. That is what came to mind when I saw your reporting Steve thatthis guy doesn`t want everyone to believe he`s a
monster.
HELLING: Yes, I mean, you know, we hear that a lot. And the interesting thing is that you and I do things now and then that we think, I was just a
monster there. And it`s interesting that people who really have done something sometimes don`t even see it. They think there`s mitigating
circumstances. I don`t know what he could possibly tell me about -- let`s take one thing, the oil drums. I don`t know what he could possibly tell me
about that that would make me say, that`s not a monstrous thing to do.
BANFIELD: You know, you nailed it. Lets just say his story in the house is true, Let`s just say that because he`s entitled to that defense, I guess
and everything that happened afterwards is monstrous. There`s no way to chop that up in any other way. I want to throw in a couple of other quick
pieces of reporting here that we just found out in the last few -- well not even an hour. Last few minutes I would say.
It turns out as that moving truck is at that home, clearing out at least the bed frame and mirror and who knows what else because it`s 3500 pounds
of order that that truck can accommodate. We know the kitchen cabinets in the kitchen were very special to Shanann`s family. And the reason is
because Shanann`s father is a cabinet maker and Shanann`s father built the cabinets.
Shanann`s father also installed the cabinets in Shanann`s kitchen where she featured them so heavily in her photographs and in her Facebook posts and
in her happy life broadcasts. Shanann`s dad did those. And who knows if perhaps Shanann`s dad wanted those special cabinets back?
Perhaps he uninstalled those cabinets. I don`t know if we have the picture of the little orange stool that was always featured so heavily in the kids`
postings, but the little kids were always playing on that stool. There you go. See that. I think that might be Cici playing in the orange stool and
there is Chris. Well, guess what, that was also built by Shanann`s dad. That was also a gift.
That little orange stool that the children absolutely adored, at least they were on it all the time, stepped up on it to see what was up on the
counter, they played on it, they chewed it, what little kid doesn`t chew a stool? Well, Shanann`s dad made it and maybe that is in the moving truck
that sat outside that house today. At least I sure hope it was. Shanann Watts was very open on her Facebook videos.
Not just about the cabinets, in the kitchen but also about her high school and the struggles that she had, insecurities that she had when she was
younger. Straight ahead, you`re going to hear from someone who knew her then and says she was a very different person. Matt Francis was her high
school drama teacher, her theater teacher, he`s joining us next to share the memories of the student he says grew up to be his lifelong friend until
seven weeks ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:55] SHANANN WATTS, CHRIS WATTS` WIFE: I just went to Mexico for a week. It`s the holidays, I`ve been eating candy. Holloween. Thanks,
Christy. I`m so excited. I`m super excited about Vegas. I can`t wait to find out where we`re going in June. I chose to make my life better. I
chose to take all my negative things that happened to me in my lifetime, bottled them up and put it inside me and it empowered me to be the person I
am and I`m becoming.
This saves me every morning. Oh, my god, I`m having way too much fun here. Have a wonderful day, I love you all and enjoy today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: If you were friends with Shanann Watts on Facebook, you got used to seeing a lot of videos like that, like a lot, a lot of videos like that.
Because Shanann Watts was marketing a product that she said changed her life. But Shanann was also sharing her family and sharing her travels and
sharing her dreams in these videos. With the confidence at times of a celebrity, letting other people into her world. No holds barred.
And to some Facebook friends that was a good sign because Shanann was not always that confident. And how do we know that? Because Shanann`s
teachers knew her when. And Matt Francis was Shanann`s theater teacher at Pine Crest High School and he`s kind enough to join us now. Matt, thank
you for being with us. And first and foremost, I`m very sorry for your loss. You weren`t just her ninth grade teacher, you became a very close
friend of hers.
You continued a friendship with her right up until - as I understand it, I think two weeks before she died, you last communicated with her, right?
MATT FRANCIS, SHANANN WATTS` HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Yes, that`s correct. I found out -- yes, I found out kind of late, too. But yes. We -- she was
doing a convention over there and I was just so impressed with her doing Facebook live and the way she did it and the way she does had become such
an encourager. I just gave her a big how much I`m proud of her on the Facebook live message.
BANFIELD: And she wasn`t like that when you -- when you were her teacher at 14 years old. You describe a very different person. Who was she then?
FRANCIS: Yes. So -- yes. You would be amazed at how far she`s come. She`s a -- she`s a wonderful beautiful human being who learned that the
power of giving your life away I think brings true joy. She was a very insecure young lady who didn`t have a lot of friends when I met her at 14
years old. But she was brave enough to sign up for beginning acting. I think that`s where she made a big mistake in her mind at first.
BANFIELD: Tell me about that.
FRANCIS: We had -- a lot of kids took theater in ninth grade. So we had about 35 to 40 kids in her class. They did that to me twice at Pine Crest
and I didn`t mind at all because I had a great technique for working with that many kids. But right away when she got in there she realized
immediately that we are all about ensemble. I even made sure people understood, I wasn`t the most important person in the room, the ensemble
was the most important thing.
Looking at other people as bigger than yourself is how you can succeed in theater, no matter whether it`s on tech crew or it`s on the acting side.
So I`m -- even to this day, when I teach (INAUDIBLE) it`s all about the ensemble, people actually have to sign a contract. So when she came she
realized -- she was with a group of people that were much more outgoing than she was at the time.
But she also realized that they cared about her and were just as interested in her succeeding. So, I think she started to really thrive and started to
even give her life away and started -- I`m very improvisational base, so she even started contributing and improves and --
BANFIELD: In spite of --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: The person you`re describing, it`s so different than the person who see on Facebook. I mean, she just seems so confident and yet you say
she spent a lot of time in your office, looking for advice, she was teased a lot, she had a low-self-image.
[19:40:06] FRANCIS: Yes. Her self-esteem is low. She did not have a good self-image of herself at 14 years old. I don`t take any credit for it at
all. All I did was really heard Shanann, I joked with her all the time, her name was, you know, Shanann because it`s a very --
(CROSSTALK)
[19:51:40] BANFIELD: You know what, tell us that because a lot of people have made sort of a lot of -- I guess theories about the pronunciation of
her name. I`ve heard her pronounce her own name on her Facebook videos, Shanann. But she -- you know, in her -- at her memorial, the program at
the church spelled her name with the proper spelling, S-H-A-N, apostrophe, A-N-N. And how did she pronounce it when she was at school?
FRANCIS: Well, here`s what I will say because ever since I knew her, it was always Shanann like -- and I break it up into two syllables. Two type
of things, you know. So that`s how I`ve always known it and joked with her and she never corrected me in three years being with me. So -- but don`t
want to -- I mean, she could have changed the way she wanted it and pronounced later in life. So I certainly don`t want to stick on that.
BANFIELD: Let me ask you this, Matt. The reason we found out about you at all was because you found something after you attended her funeral. You
were moving, and when we move, we find all sorts of stuff from our past, you know, tucked away in nooks and crannies in our homes. And you found a
letter that Shanann had written to you fairly recently. And I just -- if I can, I just want to -- actually, when I say fairly recently, I think it was
as you were leaving Pine Crest in 2002.
So, I want to read for our viewers what the letter said and I think we even have a picture of what the card and the note and the signature looks like.
You`d posted it on Facebook. Let`s pop that up on the air. And I`m going to read some of the things she wrote to you. I just wanted you it know
that I am going to miss you dearly. You are truly something special to me. You have always been there for me and have been very helpful.
You helped bring out the true person in me back in ninth grade. And I can`t thank you enough for that. Not only have you been there for me as a
friend but you have also been like a father figure to me. I wish you the best of luck. Thank you so much for being a wonderful teacher and friend.
I will never forget you. Love always. When you found that, Matt, what happened? What happened? What did you think?
FRANCIS: Well, there`s a lot to it. I mean, the Shanann that we just described in ninth grade and the Shanann that she became before I left --
she became a rock for me. She learned that giving her life away meant so much more and she became a stage manager and a production person. Adam
Goodwin was our tech director and she was always there to help with the tech group but she`d also work amazingly with the actors.
She just learned -- she learned -- she had a level of empathy like a lot of people today just don`t. So, to find out that this happened to her, I
mean, I`m still -- I still don`t believe it`s true. It`s so mind-boggling because she`s really, truly one of the good ones, one of the amazing ones,
who really saw hurting people out there. So, when I found that, I thought it was such a gift, because I had just come back from the funeral and they
had the three caskets there.
It was so hard to see someone that was just that amazing, that someone could do that. And on top of it as a father and a husband, someone who
would betray that trust to protect those little babies and that -- and that wife and to see it happen to her of all people. So there was two layers to
it. One was the funeral which was very hard. Then coming home and just cleaning out the garage, honestly, I was not looking for it.
I just found this thing, and it was all this huge card from my -- one of my classes and there was this little card from Shanann. And it was one of the
first things that I opened and read. I just -- I couldn`t believe it, I thought it was such a treasure. And it just reminded me of how far she had
come. And my hope is, honestly, I love what the family is doing and I want to make sure we highlight, shine like Shanann, #shinelikeShanann.
Because that woman in her light and legacy she did enough in her short amount of time to affect people`s lives for a long time to come I think.
And that`s what it reminded me of. And that`s why I posted it. Honestly, I know there`s people out there that think I was trying to get -- I had no
intention of you guys interview me. My goal was to put it out there to some of her former classmates made to say, hey, guys, we now get to hold
her light and legacy.
You know, we can`t ever forget who this person was and help encourage them to be a part of that. So, it was too full.
[19:45:01] BANFIELD: You know, without question, I think a lot of people agree with you who never knew her and just started to get to know her just
through her Facebook videos and sadly posthumously because they may not have been drawn to this person but for seeing this on television or in
their newspapers. And so the fact that you pay such tribute to her the way you do, I think it`s very special, Matt, and I thank you very much.
I know this isn`t easy to do and I -- and I know you probably didn`t want to, but I do appreciate you telling us a little more about this person.
She`s just not --
(CROSSTALK)
FRANCIS: Can I ask just one more quick thing?
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Yes.
FRANCIS: I want justice like everybody else for this person that killed her. I want the family to have justice. He needs justice. But I also
want to make sure we say, we`ve got to get better as a culture of seeing hurting people because that`s how we avoid things like this happening.
Sometimes we got to interrupt our life and go outside of our comfort zone. Like Shanann did all the time. She surrounded herself with people
sometimes that just need an encouragement.
And she saw hurting people. So, if anything that I could encourage people to be part of when it comes to Shanann, please, you know, see those hurting
people out there and try to -- try to just go out and reach out to them and just listen to them for a minute to try to avoid things like this happening
with people.
BANFIELD: I agree, I think you`re right. And online people are hurting people as well in this story. I think you`re --
FRANCIS: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: You have experienced that firsthand. And again, thank you, Matt, I wish we could have met under different circumstances. I wish you
were my teacher, you seem like a really great guy. Matt Francis, Shanann`s ninth grade theater teacher.
Coming up next. Something that Matt just alluded to, the fair trial, the fair process and justice. That means there`s a defense team feverishly,
feverishly right now, blindfolded, they don`t have anything. No discovery, no cause of death, no nothing. So what exactly are they doing? We`ll find
out, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: It hasn`t been very long but the defense team for Chris Watts has got to be doing something. I mean, they could be facing the death
penalty, right? So with that in mind, listen to this Facebook question from Roger Ambrose. I beg your pardon. That is not the question from
Roger Ambrose. I beg your pardon. But that is a big question right now. What is the defense team doing right now?
What exactly can they do given they have so little to go on? No discovery. No cause of death. Just a guy in an orange suit. I want to bring in David
Beller real quick, defense attorney. Tell me how on earth would they be starting the case?
DAVID BELLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: At this point, what they really trying to do is to answer the question of why. We know that the government say what
happened but the defense is working feverishly to figure out the why of what happened and to do their own investigation here.
BANFIELD: Will they just be blocking everything that comes from the prosecution until they know just exactly what it is they`re facing and they
get some discovery and they know what strategy they have to actually, you know, pursue?
BELLER: Yes. And at this point, it`s really too early for them to actually set their sights on a defense. They simply don`t know. They`re
trying to gather the evidence. They`re trying to block the prosecution from getting more evidence from Mr. Watts and really asking Mr. Watts and
investigating the why did this happen question.
BANFIELD: Yes. I wonder how many probing questions they really want to know. I`ve often heard lawyers say, don`t tell me that. I don`t want to
know that. Let me bring in Tom Verni real quickly. Tom is a former NYPD detective and law enforcement consultant. I can only imagine the volumes
of evidence coming out of this case that eventually those defense attorneys are going to get.
TOM Yes.
BANFIELD: From the Frederick Police, from the sheriff, from all the forensic investigators that look over the electronics. I mean, how much
evidence are we talking about?
TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, so far, it seems like they gathered a lot of evidence. There is a lot of physical evidence, there`s
the electronic evidence that we`ve talked about with the camera and phones and cell sites and all of that.
BANFIELD: E-mails.
VERNI: Yes. E-mails and then on top of everything else, don`t forget, he`s admitted that he killed her.
BANFIELD: Yes.
VERNI: Right? He`s saying that she killed the children.
BANFIELD: And by the way, what about the actual burial site? That`s got to be just a massive truckload of physical evidence as well that has to be
processed and eventually handed over to the defense.
VERNI: Yes. Exactly. So, in any case, you know, that`s what really drives home a case a lot of times besides from, you know, if whether or not
you have an admission of guilt, you know, you need the physical evidence to give (INAUDIBLE) evidence to come forward, you know, beyond a reasonable
doubt this is the guy. We know he`s the one that did it. We -- and it seems that there is such a mountain that any defense attorney really going
to have a really tough time trying to say, well, he didn`t do it when you have the evidence showing that he did.
And then the evidence in admission saying that he did, I don`t know. And as far as him, you know, feeling that the media is portraying him unfairly,
well, too bad.
BANFIELD: Too bad at that point.
VERNI: Don`t kill your wife.
BANFIELD: Right. Well, when you`re charged with, you know, nine felonies including killing your kids and burying them in oil. That`s going to
happen. Thank you, Tom. Thank you to all my guests as well. Thanks for watching, everyone. "FORENSIC FILES" begins in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
