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Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford to Testify Today. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 27, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, September 27, 6 a.m. here in New York, and this is a day. I mean, oh, my, is this a day. This is kind of a "remember where I was" type of day?

[05:59:40] Never before has a Supreme Court nominee or, frankly, a nominee for any office faced the kind of allegations being made against Brett Kavanaugh. Sexual assault, a kind of complicity in a gang rape, horrific if true and simply horrifying that people would make these claims, if not true.

In just a few hours, two of the players in this expanding drama, and only two, will appear before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Professor Christine Blasey Ford says that Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed, groped her, held his hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming. In her prepared remarks, she says, "Brett's assault on me drastically altered my life."

Now, Kavanaugh denies these allegations and also other new ones coming to late, calling them last-minute smears. He says he will not be intimidated into withdrawing his nomination.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, just hours before today's hearing, Kavanaugh is having to fend off new allegations. The total is now five, but two of those are anonymous making them extremely hard to confirm.

The third accusation comes from a woman who claims that Kavanaugh was present when she was drugged and gang raped. Her lawyer, Michael Avenatti, will join us this hour.

President Trump is standing by his nominee. In this freewheeling news conference, he talked about it. He insisted the allegations against Kavanaugh are all, quote, "false," and he admits, though, that his own personal experience of accusations against him have influenced his thinking on all of this.

He also suggests that he could be swayed by Ford's testimony today.

So let's begin our coverage of this historic hearing with CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. She is live on Capitol Hill -- Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, it is incredibly hard to overstate just how important this moment, the magnitude of this moment is up here on Capitol Hill. There have been so many fast-moving developments, twists and turns, new allegations, new denials.

But today comes down to this one hearing, Christine Blasey Ford finally stepping forward and putting her voice and name behind her story and her allegations, and then you have, of course, Brett Kavanaugh fighting for his future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY (voice-over): Embattled Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh fending off a string of unsubstantiated new allegations ahead of today's high-profile hearing with Christine Blasey Ford. Ford is accusing Kavanaugh of sexually assaulting her in high school. In prepared testimony released in advance of the hearing, Ford says the memory of the alleged assault has haunted her, writing, "I am here today, not because I want to be. I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me."

Kavanaugh's testimony about Ford expected to echo this denial from an interview with FOX News earlier this week.

BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I am not questioning and have not questioned that perhaps Dr. Ford at some point in her life was sexually assaulted by someone in someplace. But what I know is I've never sexually assaulted anyone.

SERFATY: The judge's prepared testimony casting a barrage of accusations he is facing as last-minute smears, stressing, "I will not be intimidated into withdrawing from this process. This effort to destroy my good name will not drive me out."

The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley, responding to criticism that the committee is not taking the allegations against Kavanaugh seriously, and releasing a detailed timeline of their investigation, the new document revealing three conversations committee staff had with two men who believe they, not Judge Kavanaugh, had the encounter with Dr. Ford in the summer of 1982 that is the basis of his complaint.

The Judiciary Committee also releasing two transcripts from conversations they had with Kavanaugh, which revealed that the committee also questioned Kavanaugh about two other anonymous accusations of sexual assault, relayed to senators Cory Gardner and Sheldon Whitehouse. Kavanaugh denied both allegations, and the individual who reached out to Senator Whitehouse appears to have retracted his statement online.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We have had accusation after accusations. Very few of them are, if any, corroborated.

SERFATY: These new details coming after a third woman, Julie Swetnick, in a sworn statement to the Senate, alleges that she saw Kavanaugh at high-school parties drinking excessively and engaging in sexual misconduct, claiming she saw Kavanaugh and his classmate, Mark Judge, tried to get girls inebriated and disoriented so they could be gang range. Swetnick writing that she was a victim of gang rape at a party Kavanaugh allegedly attended.

And Kavanaugh responding in a statement, writing, "This is ridiculous and from the twilight zone. I don't know who this is, and this never happened."

MICHAEL AVENATTI, ATTORNEY: My client came out because she wants the truth known, and she was very disturbed by the fact that people were casting aspersions relating to Dr. Ford and the believability of her allegations.

SERFATY: President Trump claiming he may be persuaded by today's testimony from Ford.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to be watching. You know, believe it or not. I'm going to see what's said. It's possible that they will be convincing.

SERFATY: But defending Kavanaugh in personal terms and suggesting the #MeToo movement unfairly threatens powerful men.

[06:05:02] TRUMP: I've had a lot of false charges made against me.

So when I see it, I view it differently than somebody sitting home watching television.

In this case, you're guilty until proven innocent. I think that is a very, very dangerous standard for our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY: And aid all the drama of today's hearing, it is definitely worth remembering that so much, as far as where we go next is contingent on the Senate map.

Republicans, as of now, do not have the votes they need to get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed, and many key Republican holdout swing votes saying that they are watching closely today's hearing to make their decisions known.

We have Susan Collins, we know, privately expressing that she appears unnerved by the latest allegations. That echoes what others, other key votes, like Senator Flake, like Senator Murkowski, two key Republicans, also very nervous and expressing reservations about these new allegations. So so much hinges on states carrying in.

John and Alisyn, I talked to a committee source this morning and asked about the mood within the committee, and this source said, "We are all just holding our breath."

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. I think that that makes all of us.

Sunlen, thank you very much. Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Laura Coates; CNN political director David Chalian; and CNN senior political analyst John Avlon.

John Avlon, I want to start with you and John Berman, because I remember October 11, 1991. I remember when Anita Hill testified and how riveted we all were. I was in an office. All my coworkers and I got around the conference room table, and we were spellbound. We couldn't move during all of that.

You know, look, this is all of these years later. Cable news is much more ubiquitous. However, there is going to be a woman who takes sworn testimony and is going to say, "Brett groped me and tried to take off my clothes. He had a hard time, because he was so drunk and because I was wearing a one-piece bathing suit under my clothes. I believe he was going to rape me. I tried to yell for help. When I did, Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me from screaming. This was what terrified me the most and has had the most lasting impact on my life against a Supreme Court nominee.

I mean, this is -- there's no other way to say that this is a historic day -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is history in the present tense today. And is -- this is a jump-ball moment, because we don't know how this day is going to end.

Tribalism and hyperpartisanship has infused this entire process. But if there are still a few independent, fair-minded folks left in the Senate, and they seem to be swing votes in either party, those are the folks to watch. And they will be and should be affected, not only by the testimony by Kavanaugh and Professor Ford but by those questions that come after. And the behavior of the prosecutor and the answers to those questions. That's where a lot of the real drama will lie.

BERMAN: And I will note, we've seen the words that you just read out loud, and we read the words. But we haven't heard them from Professor Ford. We haven't heard Professor Ford at all, and that is pivotal here, Laura. As you watch and prepare for this hearing, what are you looking for in terms of this testimony from Christine Blasey Ford?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we're all going to be jurors in a sense. And looking at our guts, we're going to be assessing and evaluating credibility.

We're going to be seeing something that may remind us of someone we know or ourselves. We're going to put ourselves in that position. And that of the accused. And we're going to be watching to figure out whether or not we believe that the recollection that she is talking about, in fact, occurred and that the person that she is pointing the finger at is, in fact, Brett Kavanaugh.

This is not an easy task to undertake. It's not an easy task for jurors in a court of law. It's really not an easy task when you're looking at it through the lens of politics, as well. And many people are going to have their judgment clouded, not by whether or not they believe a stranger or somebody who will have very little impact on their lives for generations is guilty of a particular offense.

You're looking at it as in a cost benefit analysis. And that's the scariest part about this, that justice may come down in that respect to a cost-benefit analysis, whether or not you want to believe her based on your politics or whether or not you want to not have a hasty decision-making process and gut check because of an arbitrary deadline. And that's probably the most unsettling thing for many people watching.

But I, like everyone else, am going to be a juror in the court of public opinion today.

CAMEROTA: I mean, David, if these allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are not true, or if they are the product of a faulty memory, what he and his family have endured, it is chilling to think about. And he addresses that in the written statement that he has given or will give today.

So here it is: "I will not be intimidated into withdrawing from the process. This effort to destroy my good name will not drive me out. The vile threats of violence against my family will not drive me out. I am here this morning to answer these allegations and to tell the truth. And the truth is that I have never sexually assaulted anyone, not in high school, not in college, not ever."

[06:10:04] I mean, again for all of us, as Laura said, for all of the jury, this is going to be a challenging day.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I mean, one thing that is exposed, I think, is how broken this process is. I think that is pretty clear.

And to your point, Alisyn, Judge Kavanaugh has been categorical in his denials from the get-go, from -- from the very beginning of the first allegation being out there, and that is something he has sort of remained consistent through, his interviews and his statements, that he just has -- not only is this not true. It did not happen; it was not me.

So -- so you are right we have two people entering into the hearing room today with completely different recollections of what occurred, which is why I think it's important to remember -- and this gets to what Laura was saying -- this -- today is not about who's telling the truth.

Today is not going to be about fact-finding and trying to actually get to the root of what happened in 1982. That -- that's not what today is about.

Today is about a credibility test, and it's a credibility test for each of the witnesses that are there. And it is so important to understand that so much hangs -- the president said it himself yesterday. So much hangs in the balance here over how each of these people are perceived in the court of public opinion at large, sure. But really for those key swing senators. I mean, the president described it yesterday, if the Republicans win today. BERMAN: Exactly.

CHALIAN: Obviously, there's no win or loss in terms of a vote count today, but what he means is if, indeed, Republicans and Kavanaugh win that battle of perception today, that is everything in terms of determining whether or not he's going to be a Supreme Court justice.

BERMAN: That was such an interesting framing, wasn't it? And it was a very subtle framing, David, and I'm glad you picked up on it. Because who -- who is trying to win or lose here. It's not about winning or losing in theory, this hearing. It's about hearing from these two witnesses, hearing their stories.

So it's interesting that the president would think it to be a win if Judge Kavanaugh is more convincing. And I do want to say one other thing here, is again, we haven't heard from Professor Ford.

CAMEROTA: We haven't even seen her, really, other than --

BERMAN: Side shot. We have a side shot.

CAMEROTA: And that old photo, I guess, of skiing or something. I mean, it's amazing, in this day and age of the Internet, how few photos there are circulating out there of her.

BERMAN: And this is the photo of the polygraph test as she's taking the polygraph test. And remember, Brett Kavanaugh has been in the political game his entire life, his entire life. And he went through a whole hearing already.

And she is walking into something the likes of which she has never seen before, and she is facing not just, you know, the 11 senators who are more or less already opposed to her. We don't know about Jeff Flake, but she's also facing, Laura, a seasoned prosecutor. This Rachel Mitchell from Arizona --

COATES: She is.

BERMAN: -- who has got some 30 years of experience in this. What will Rachel Mitchell be trying to do when she's face to face with Christine Blasey Ford?

COATES: Now remember, she's a prosecutor who specializes in sex crimes. So -- and -- she's normally there to advocate and champion on behalf of the victim and her individual county, the people of the United States. So her goal, when she's been in trials prosecuting cases, has not been to undermine the credibility of her own witness who is making the allegations. It's oftentimes to attack the credibility of the people who are denying that victim's credibility or the person who is take the stand that is accused.

And so her role, although it's prosecutorial and certainly not meant to just plant daisies for you, is not somebody who, by her career alone, suggests that she will be antagonistic towards Dr. Blasey Ford.

Having said that, you're talking about somebody who is well-equipped to try to ask questions, even open-ended ones that will result in you being flustered, that could result in you perhaps undermining your own credibility inadvertently.

She has no obligation, unlike if she were a prosecutor on your behalf, to try to rehabilitate you if you make a misstep or try to make sure that the jury or the court of public opinion or the jury in the courtroom believes you still, even after a clarification makes people doubt something that you have said. Her objective is to ask those open-ended questions, but you still have these optics.

I don't want the Republican Party and the Judiciary Committee to believe that the optics are gone here. There are still very powerful optics.

No. 1, each of the senators normally has five minutes to be able to ask questions. They can all hand her over their time. You're talking about a straight hour of interrogation by a seasoned prosecutor against somebody who may never have even been inside of a courtroom, let along talking about an assault that happened to her over 36 years ago.

And you also have the optics of people looking at this in a patronizing way, as each of those Republican senators on the Judiciary Committee who are simply being derelict in their duty at being able to ask their own questions, for fear of that optics, now saying, "OK, we don't want to be seen as woman -- mansplaining to you. We'll have a woman explain this case to you." And in that you do have an optical divide that will take place today.

[06:15:09] AVLON: There are also the optics on the opposite side. I mean, politics has infused all of this. We acknowledge that. When Trump talks about winning or losing, that is the way partisans view today.

But there are individuals and characters and careers on the line at the heart of this credibility. And part of what's being confronted isn't only the unprecedented nature of an inquiry into someone's high school or college behavior. It's also sort of a death by headline approach, where it's not a preponderance of evidence. It's a preponderance of accusation that creates an atmosphere that raises questions about whether Brett Kavanaugh is confirmable today or tomorrow, and whether an investigation, more investigation is necessary, or whether a vote can be pushed forward as they've already scheduled on Friday. Those are also optics.

CHALIAN: And it was precisely that, John, I think that the president was pushing back on yesterday, that notion of death by headline that you're talking about.

I think he was sort of putting out a rallying cry when he was saying -- when he was sort of bemoaning this notion that he thinks now in our society, you are first guilty until proven innocent, not the beautiful phrase of innocent until proven guilty that he's heard for years and years.

He said, I think it was a rallying cry to his supporters and beyond in the country of people who may feel similar to him that this notion of death by headline should not be fair game.

BERMAN: Hold that thought, because we're going to talk about how effective the president's case was in his 80-minute news conference yesterday. We're also going to talk about some of these new allegations or swirling new claims that have come to light over the last 12 or 15 hours and how well that plays in.

CAMEROTA: And we'll have Michael Avenatti with us shortly.

Meanwhile, CNN's special coverage of today's historic hearing will begin at 10 a.m. Eastern. You can watch it live on CNN and online at CNN.com.

BERMAN: All right. President Trump, he was in New York. He defended Brett Kavanaugh vigorously during this news conference and defended men who are accused of sexual assault. Is that enough to sway senators who might be on the fence? Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:21:01] BERMAN: So during this freewheeling and somewhat rare news conference that lasted 80 minutes, President Trump defended his Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh. He called Kavanaugh the victim, the victim of a Democratic con job. The president talked about how the accusations against him have affected his thinking on Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've had a lot of false charges made against me, really false charges. I know friends that have had false charges. People want fame, they want money, they want whatever.

So when I see it, I view it differently than somebody sitting home watching television. When you say, "Does it affect me in terms of my thinking with respect to Judge Kavanaugh?" Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. So there are a lot of questions here. What message does that send to young women who may be victims of sexual assault? What message does that send to young men about the lives that they should leave.

And David Chalian, there's also the question of what message does the president's performance send to Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Jeff Flake?

If his goal is to get Judge Kavanaugh confirmed, did he help?

CHALIAN: I don't think he helped his cause yesterday. I'm not sure he hurt his cause. The three key senators you just identified, I'm not sure that they watched the president's press conference and all of a sudden got closer to a "no" vote on Kavanaugh yesterday. I think that their votes are going to hinge very much on today's

historic hearing, but I do think you could hear almost, if you listened carefully enough, Mitch McConnell just putting his head into the his hands as the president was giving his press conference yesterday, because this is precisely why Republicans on the Hill did not want the president heavily involved in wooing votes on Kavanaugh.

He's a flawed messenger, especially in this arena, this area of an issue of an accuser, a female accuser. So I just think it was not at all helpful to the cause. But again, I think today will have so much more to do with how those senators vote than the president's performance yesterday.

CAMEROTA: Well, it is also really illuminating, Laura. I mean, look, the president, of course, cherry-picks the information. He -- he is zeroing in on these -- I think he kept saying four accusers. There's actually been more than 15 that have come out and accused him of some level of sexual misconduct. He didn't address that, those numbers.

He talked about how some of them were offered money. That is true.

He seems to focus in -- when he gets something that he thinks works in his favor, he zeros in on that at the exclusion of all of the other information.

But it was also interesting to hear him say that, of course, he's affected by his own personal experience. Who isn't? I mean, this is why you ask jurors if they have any personal experience that will sway their personal opinions. And that he's open to hearing what will happen today, because as we know, he is sometimes swayed by the last person in the room that he talks to. So he just gave us a whole potpourri of things to look at with, you know, how this will affect him today.

COATES: He did. And of course, the last person in the room, as far as we know, will be Brett Kavanaugh. He's the last person who will be speaking after Dr. Blasey Ford testifies and talking about recollection.

But you're right, the president has a narrative going, and that four- person thresholds he was trying to suggest was his own accusations made against him, was largely related to that fake news narrative. He was complimenting Sean Hannity of FOX News for covering the false allegations of women who came forward, he believes and were paid to have a contrived story, contrasting that to the coverage of the other accusations that have been made against him.

So was trying to go around, without saying fake news. He was still trying to say it.

By the way, I think the people will look at this, largely the same way the president has looked at it today. In a sense of how does my personal beliefs, how does my personal experiences, how does my knowledge of perception of the breadth or pervasiveness of fake accusations, how is that going to guide my thinking about Dr. Blasey Ford? [06:25:04] And of course, the context and the backdrop of all of this

are the other accusations that have been made. And one of the biggest tests today, talking about perception and credibility, the credibility of the #MeToo movement is also before us today, the perception of how it will be viewed, and whether or not, as John talked about, the death by headline or the death by the number of headlines and accusations will also contribute to your assessment of her credibility.

Can you look at it in isolation of what she says, or will you be tacking on other things to bolster your already very, very entrenched perceptions?

CAMEROTA: And I just want to tease one thing, that we have a reality Check coming up about what the president said, about the accusations. and John Avlon will tackle it and talk about what the president was referring to and if he was referring to and whether he was using facts.

BERMAN: We're also going to talk about, hopefully, some of these new allegations that came out overnight.

But I want to end on one point on the president and what he said. He's made two separate arguments here, and I think there is a distinction. No. 1, he said there is a risk of being proven guilty before proven innocent.

And when you speak to Republicans, they will tell you that that is including their voters. And it's polling well. They've been testing this. Being guilty before proven innocent is something that everyone is concerned about.

However, the president conflates that with saying that if you didn't come forward over the last 36 years, then I'm not sure that I believe you. And he thinks, as the last statement he gave in that news conference, that the real risk to society is false accusations. I just want to play that sound, when he's asked about the threat there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Somebody could come and say, "30 years ago, 25 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, he did a horrible thing to me. He did this. He did that. He did that."

And honestly, it's a very dangerous period in our country. And it's being perpetrated by some very evil people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And that's the distinction that makes Republicans and, I think, Republicans like Susan Collins cringe there, which is to say that if you haven't come forward in 36 years, it can't be true, which is different than saying we should be innocent until proven guilty.

AVLON: Yes. And look, the president is projecting his own experience forward, obviously, someone who's been enormously -- more than a dozen women have come forward, he insists unfairly. He is not an advocate or an avatar for the #MeToo movement in any positive way.

But for senators watching today, I think the argument that Beth Wilkinson made to you, John, yesterday, that now we see in Brett Kavanaugh's prepared testimony, that what will this standard do to people who want to pursue public service in the future?

This -- what about something that is 35 years? The Avenatti claims that came yesterday, which I have -- may have an unintended effect among some saying, who all of a sudden see this is a pylon, not related to reality, despite the fact it is sworn testimony. Those are all factors that are going to -- senators are going to bring --

BERMAN: Those are two separate things. The argument that what message does this send to people who may want to serve in public life, maybe don't commit sexual assault. I know Brett Kavanaugh denies it, but again, I don't feel like that is too high of a bar for people who want to sit on the Supreme Court.

As for the other allegations, and I think those are very different -- we have these --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Yes, Avenatti, you know, that wasn't vetted. This is an affidavit, yes, but it hasn't been vetted by the media. We can't corroborate any of it. And then these two anonymous claims that came out overnight, one on which was retracted. Those are odd. But also, frankly, the Republicans say they also now have these men who have come forward and say it was them. And the Democrats say, "We haven't given any information on that."

CAMEROTA: That's also crazy, Laura. These men who have come forward to say that what happened to Christine Blasey Ford, it was actually they, these two men, who were willing to take the fall and say that they're the ones who covered her mouth and kept her from screaming and attempted sexual assault. I mean, what -- what is happening? You know, that's why I think more information is better, but we're only going to hear from these two people today.

COATES: It seems like it was premature for Cory Booker to steal everyone's "I am Spartacus" line at this point in time, if that's what's actually being said about these issues.

But you know, you think about this, first, it has to be said. It's very rich to hear Donald Trump, now President Trump talk about not having guilt before innocence and not to have people undermine the presumption of innocence. People need only look at the Central Park five to think about his own views on whether or not that is a cherry- picked statement or not.

And he -- I will hold him accountable, and I hope society does, as well, and the Justice Department about that notion that the presumption of innocence should stand firm in all contexts, No. 1.

No. 2, I think we have to wait to see today whether or not there's other allegations that will hold weight for people and for those senators that Dave and John have mentioned. I'm waiting on bated breath, and I think the society is, as well.

CAMEROTA: All right. Laura, David, John, thank you all very much.

So there appears to be no love lost between President Trump and Canada. What the president said that it making it looks like there could be a major trade deal without our neighbors to the North. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)