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Senate Judiciary Committee to Hold Hearing with Testimony from Brett Kavanaugh and His Accuser Christine Blasey Ford; Interview with Senator Richard Blumenthal. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 27, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Christine Blasey Ford says that Brett Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed, groped her, held his hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming. In her prepared remarks, which she'll deliver again, just two hours from now, she says Brett Kavanaugh's assault on me drastically altered her life. Kavanaugh denies these allegations and also other new ones coming to light, calling them last-minute smears, and says he will not be intimidated into withdrawing his nomination.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Before the hearing begins Kavanaugh is having to fend off a flurry of new allegations. There are now five women, but two of them are anonymous, making them extremely tough to confirm. The third accusation comes from a woman named Julie Swetnick that claims that Kavanaugh was present when she was drugged and gang raped at a party. Despite all this, President Trump is standing by his nominee, insisting that all of the allegations against Kavanaugh are false, but the president admits that his own personal experience with accusations against him have influenced his thinking on Kavanaugh.

BERMAN: Joining us now, one of the senators who will be in the room asking the questions, Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut. Senator, thanks so much for being with us. I think with the hearing just two hours away and knowing what we know about the Republicans and what they're going to do, having Rachel Mitchell, this Arizona prosecutor, doing their questioning, I think we'd all like to know how Democrats will plan to do at this hearing today. How are the 10 of you going to approach these questions.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, (D) CONNECTICUT: I can speak for myself, and I think this view is shared by my colleagues. Our focus is going to be on the facts and the evidence. What the administration has done here smacks of a cover-up. There has been concealment of evidence, millions of pages of documents even before these serious, credible allegations from courageous sexual assault survivors. But the administration has blocked an FBI investigation that is absolutely necessary to uncover the facts and evidence. So as important as this hearing is, equally so is what needs to be done now. The Senate professionals and the FBI need to go after the facts and evidence.

BERMAN: Will all 10 of you use the time that's allotted to you? Do you intend to ask you five minutes of questions to Professor Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, will all 10 senators do it, or is it possible you might yield your time to one of the women in your caucus on the committee, Kamala Harris, for instance?

BLUMENTHAL: I think each of us is going to use our time. I certainly will mine because I have questions for Judge Kavanaugh that go to his credibility. Many of his statements contradict the facts as we know them. And we need to hear also from witnesses like Mark Judge, Judge Kavanaugh's good friend. I may ask him about Mark Judge and why he hasn't been subpoenaed. I think those kinds of evidence are very important.

BERMAN: So in Judge Kavanaugh's initial hearing, Democrats tried to delay the beginning of it. Do you anticipate any of those types of maneuvers in a couple of hours?

BLUMENTHAL: Our focus, as I said, is on facts and evidence, not parliamentary maneuvers here. But here is a question of timing that's very important, John. Tomorrow the Judiciary Committee is scheduled to vote. Even before hearing Dr. Blasey Ford the Republican leadership scheduled a vote, really any pretext of listening respectfully to her. It demonstrates disregard and disrespect that has shamed and silenced so many courageous sexual assault survivors from coming forward.

BERMAN: Chairman Grassley says that that vote was scheduled merely because he needed to be in regular order. And if they were going to have the possibility at all of voting on it, they needed to schedule it three days before. He could delay it after tomorrow.

I do want to focus on one thing you said. You said you were focused on the facts and the evidence from today's hearing. However, all 10 of the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee signed a letter asking the president, asking for the withdrawal of the nomination. So to that extent, aren't you prejudging this hearing already?

BLUMENTHAL: We are not the judges. We are the inquirers who are eliciting and uncovering those facts and evidence for the American people. Ultimately, the jury here is the American people and our colleagues who may not have decided. So we are asking these questions.

But I want to emphasize to you, John, that this procedure is totally broken. The Republicans have broken the norms because normally the way a prosecutor, and I was a prosecutor for many years before I took this job, both as United States attorney and at the state attorney general, normally a prosecutor would conduct an investigation and then put a witness on the stand. Here we have totally reversed it.

[08:05:00] And, yes, Senator Grassley has said that the notice of a vote tomorrow is just a procedural nicety, but it absolutely abandons any pretense of listening carefully to Dr. Blasey Ford. And I think that's a betrayal of our duty.

BERMAN: We have their prepared opening statements, and Judge Kavanaugh plans to say these are last minute smears pure and simple. They debase our public discourse, and the consequences extend beyond any one nomination. Such grotesque and obvious character assassination, if allowed to succeed, will dissuade competent and good people of all political persuasions from serving our country. We heard that from the president yesterday as well. We heard it from Judge Kavanaugh's attorney Beth Wilkinson. Are you concerned with the message this sends going forward?

BLUMENTHAL: I'm concerned about the courageous sexual assault survivors who have been really revictimized by the character assassination, public shaming, the death threats and other kinds of danger to their public safety. And I'm concerned with the administration's concealment. It's, in effect, cover-up by refusing to order a real investigation. If Judge Kavanaugh wants to clear his name, as he said he did on FOX News, he would demand an FBI investigation, and he would demand that these other witnesses, including his friend Mark Judge, be put under oath, be brought before the Judiciary Committee in a hearing. This kind of concealment betrays a lack of credibility.

BERMAN: Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, thank you so much for joining us. We look forward to watching you in the hearing, which, again, begins in less than two hours.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's bring in Abby Phillips, she's our CNN White House correspondent, David Chalian, CNN political director, and Jeffrey Toobin, CNN chief legal analyst. Jeffrey, I want to start with you because, with all due respect to Senator Blumenthal who says that he is here to see the evidence and the facts, that's not what he's going to be getting today. That's not what any of us are going to be getting today. We're going to be getting impressions. Impressions of how Judge Kavanaugh comports himself and how Professor Blasey comports herself, and what they say. This isn't a fact finding mission.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: No. This is a political enterprise designed to get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed. This is the bare minimum that Chuck Grassley and the Republicans have agreed to do to satisfy what they think, or they hope to satisfy the wavering votes in their conference. That's all this is. This is not an investigation.

If this were a legitimate investigation, they would be asking a lot more witnesses questions. They would have the FBI doing independent fact finding. The only investigators who were working on this hearing are the Republican staffers whose job it is to get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed. So, yes, we are going to learn something. Yes, this is going to be a dramatic day. But, no, this is not a real investigation.

BERMAN: We have got some new reporting just in about Brett Kavanaugh's attitude and demeanor heading into this hearing, Abby. The word is "incandescent," which I find fascinating, a fascinating choice of words. Apparently, he will be much more aggressive, much more emotional in his answers than he was on FOX News. That seems to cater to an audience of one, a little bit. President Trump was disappointed in her performance. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump wants his people to

be fighters. And, frankly, from the very beginning, this is the one thing White House staffers have been saying, they want Brett Kavanaugh to defend himself in this case. And the president has been looking for him to be more aggressive.

But I think it's pretty clear they need to be careful with that. He could come across as incandescent or angry, or he could come across as someone who is believable. And I think that's the big risk here is that he can't look so angry that it looks almost as if he is -- that he is going after the alleged victim here. This is the fine line that they have been trying to walk for a long time.

So it will be interesting to see how he does this. From the very beginning we have been hearing White House staffers thinking about Brett Kavanaugh comes across as someone under fire when he's being questioned. He has been a judge for a long time. He is not particularly used to people challenging him and questioning him and questioning his character. He will be getting all of that and more today, and the challenge is going to be, does he look -- does he look angry? And does he look unlikable or does he look believable?

CAMEROTA: Incandescent I think denotes a sort of glowing aura, not fiery.

BERMAN: Maybe when it's surrounding you. Maybe when it's surrounding you.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I like myself to be called incandescent. All right, thank you, Jeffrey, for that. Meanwhile, David, what we're going to hear today, and we know because we have their prepared statements, and I'm going to read a portion of each, when I think about what happened, what Christine Blasey says happened to her when she was 15 years old in a bedroom, it is chilling.

[08:10:08] And similarly, when I think about if this is a lie or a faulty memory, what has happened to Brett Kavanaugh's family, it is chilling. And they both address that here in their prepared statement. Here they are. Here is Christine Blasey Ford's. "Brett groped me and tried to take off my clothes. He had a hard time because he was so drunk and because I was wearing a one piece bathing suit under my clothes. I believed he was going to rape me. I tried to yell for help. When I did, Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me from screaming. This is what terrified me the most and it has had the most lasting impact on my life."

So there are some details there, David, that we haven't heard before in terms of the bathing suit, I think. And here is what Brett Kavanaugh's written testimony says. "I will not be intimidated into withdrawing from this process. The effort to destroy my good name will not drive me out. The vile threats of violence against my family will not drive me out. I am here this morning to answer these allegations and to tell the truth. And the truth is I have never sexually assaulted anyone, not in high school, not in college, not ever." What you will be watching in two hours.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICS DIRECTOR: Remember, what is going to be brand-new here for the American people, brand-new, is going to be Professor Ford's account in her own voice. We've seen Brett Kavanaugh now on FOX News this week defend himself. What is going to be the new information for the American people and for the critical three or four senators that are being targeted here as Jeffrey rightly pointed out, is going to be how Dr. Ford gives her own voice publicly on camera to this experience. And that -- if we -- none of us sitting here right now just less than two hours before that happens knows what the reaction to that is going to be. That's what makes today so high stakes.

BERMAN: We don't know what she sounds like at all. We barely know what she looks like. We have seen two photos.

CAMEROTA: Which in this day and age of the proliferation of cellphones and Internet is remarkable that we've only seen these two photos.

BERMAN: It is. What we do know is that she is walking into one of the most high pressure situations you could possibly imagine. And it is interesting and notable, Abby, that I think she has the courage to do this. She had so many off ramps if she didn't feel as if she was up to this. Yet, the pressure will very much be on.

PHILLIP: And we know that she struggled with it for so long. She went forward in a letter and then decided it wasn't worth sacrificing essentially her entire life. And now she's here and she's going to testify. And I think -- I've heard sexual assault survivors talk about their experience decades later. And it is emotional. They will -- you can hear it in their voice, and I think that we can't know what that's going to be like for her, but I guarantee you that that is going to have an impact on people watching at home, on people in that room, to watch her relive this in front of millions of people is going to be an experience.

And this has all been very challenging, I'm sure, for her just as it has been for Judge Kavanaugh, but I think it is telling that her lawyers have tried to protect her from being public before she's ready because obviously she spent a lot of her life not really necessarily wanting to talk about this either publicly or privately, and this will be the most high stakes opportunity that she has to do that, and that cannot be easy.

TOOBIN: And Berman, can I raise just one issue that I think is going to be enormously important and we don't know how it's going to turn out, which is what is the perspective and the demeanor of the Arizona prosecutor, the woman who is going to asking the questions? Is she going to be cross examining Ms. Ford in a way that will try to discredit her story? Because there is material she could use for that -- no knowledge of who else was there -- the decline -- that other people have not corroborated her event. What house was it? What was the date? What was the year? You could cross examine he her in a way that could attempt to discredit her story. And is that the perspective that she's going to take, or is it going to be a more sympathetic, letting the alleged victim tell her story? We don't know that.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey Toobin, David Chalian, Abby Phillip, thank you very much. This will all be less than two hours from now. CNN's special coverage of today's historic hearing begins at 10:00 a.m. eastern. You can watch it live on CNN. You can also watch it online at CNN.com.

BERMAN: You are talking about the politics here. There are three senators we are watching very closely. One will be in the room. Jeff Flake is on the Judiciary Committee. Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, they are seen as the key swing votes. What are the hints this morning of which way they're leaning?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We really, at this point, just a little more than an hour away from this historic hearing on Capital Hill. These are live pictures from in a very small - a very small hearing room for something of this magnitude.

Will that add to the pressure of this moment? The audience, here, is the American people. The audience also, perhaps, two, three, as many as five senators who could be on the fence, what will they be looking for today?

Back with us, Abby Phillip, David Chalian, Jeffrey Toobin, and parachuting in to help us get through this, Jonathan Martin, a CNN Political Analyst and a political writer for the New York Times. Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Jeff Flake, those are the three that everyone's looking at very - very closely. And Dianne Feinstein, who is the Ranking Member of this committee, was looking at one them very - very closely...

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: (Inaudible) close.

BERMAN: ...yesterday in the hallway. Look at this, Jonathan.

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: Dianne Feinstein, taking the role - I think she's the LBJ figure here, leaning in on Lisa Murkowski, trying to win that vote.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: Lisa Murkowski's T.F. Green - yes, exactly. A - a famous picture that your viewers will probably recall, at least some of those of a certain generation, that, sort of, LBJ - the, sort of, dominary (ph) LBJ looming over a much shorter senator back in his day. And they (ph), kind of, did recall that. And those two of the key players, John, as you mentioned here.

There's a lot of people in Washington who do believe that this vote now rests on Senator Lisa Murkowski's shoulders in a lot of ways. The speculation being, at least from folks that I've talked to, that Senator Flake will look to what Senator Murkowski does and I think may join her if she does oppose Brett Kavanaugh. Again, we're at the point of much speculation. Nobody has a great sense for what will unfold, but Senator Murkowski told my colleague, (Nick Vandose), this is less about Kavanaugh's record now and more about the accusations that he is facing. So, I think she is going to be who we're all watching today. I think even more so than Collins, John, at this point.

Keep in mind, Senator Murkowski won reelection, as David Chalian knows, as a write-in candidate, when her own party beat her in the primary in 2014. She does not owe very much to the institutional party at all. She is in the caucus, but more than anybody, I would say, she is something of a free agent in the Senate GOP.

CHALAIN: And yet she's got some home state pressures, Jonathan, too, right?

MARTIN: Correct.

CHALAIN: So, you saw a really strong statement from the governor and lieutenant governor in Alaska last week, on issues in Kavanaugh's record that are particularly important to a big group of Alaskan's. And so, there are a lot of cross-currents here for Murkowski, I agree, that she is the -- if you had to pick one to watch most closely, that would be the one.

TOOBIN: Here's another factor.

: Yes, go ahead.

TOOBIN: Jeff Flake is an extraordinary political coward. He gave a nauseating speech yesterday, I thought. He goes on -- he goes on the Senate floor to inform the other 99 Senators that the people involved here are human beings. Like, no kidding, right?

I mean, it just -- his act of being an agonized, like nice guy, when he has voted in lock step with Donald Trump on absolutely everything, is really just such a tire act, I think.

And he had -- Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski had the political courage to turn on Donald Trump when it came to the Affordable Care Act. John McCain got all the publicity, but it wouldn't -- his vote wouldn't have matter if Collins and Murkowski, they are -- have been profiles in political courage. Jeff Flake is the opposite of that.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMERATO: Someone has spiked Jeffrey Toobin's coffee with truth serum this morning. So, Abby, I wanted to get to you about this, because in terms of Susan Collins, there was interesting reporting yesterday that she was in this private meeting.

And in this private meeting she was pretty extra (inaudible), saying, why isn't the Senate Judiciary Committee calling Mark Judge, who is allegedly the witness to what Christine Blasey Ford says happened and some people have described him as attached at the hip to Brett Kavanaugh during high school. He knows stuff. And she was basically saying, why are they leaving information on the table.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean this is the question Democrats have been asking. So, it's important that she was raising that in private, because there are a couple of off-ramps for these moderates. One would be that they believe the women and the other would be that they don't think they have enough information to make a judgment one way or another.

And what Collins might be signaling here is that she feels like she doesn't have enough information, that could be dangerous for Republicans. But, I think that this is going to be one of those things where if one jumps in, they might all jump in together. That if Murkowski leads the way, you might see Collins and Flake join her. But, if none of them jump, then it looks like Kavanaugh is going to be pretty easily confirmed.

I also think that there was a wild card that kind of got thrown in yesterday, which was the president talking at length about how this situation is just like all of his accusers.

There is a danger here that President Trump is attaching Kavanaugh to him a little too tightly and that some people, who have always been uncomfortable with all this controversy swirling around the president, around his private life, around the accusations around him, that that's becoming literally associated with Kavanaugh in this case.

And, I don't think it's helpful to him that President Trump basically said, I don't believe these women because I don't believe any of my accusers either. I think there are going to be a lot people who are made very nervous by the fact that President Trump went so far as he did yesterday.

BRIGGS: And his wild card was capitaled (ph) up ...

TOOBIN: But isn't that ...

BRIGGS: ... capital state.

TOOBIN: ... isn't that what you -- I mean, Abby's exactly right about, perhaps, the broader public, but as John Boehner has said, this is not the Republican party anymore, this is the Donald Trump party. And the fact that Trump has identified himself so clearly with Kavanaugh, doesn't that make them more likely to follow along because they're so afraid of him.

BRIGGS: Jonathan Martin, answer that question.

MARTIN: I think it depends who we're talking about. Look, I mean, I think a lot of them, obviously, are leery of getting crosswise with the base of their party. But, Lisa Murkowski, as I said a minute ago, is someone who does now owe a lot institutionally to the party because of how she got elected, because of the unique nature of her state.

[08:25:00].

Susan Collins is facing reelection in 2020 in a state that is more purple than it is -- that it is red, certainly, and probably tilts a little bit blue. So, that's on her mind, is can I support this nomination and still get reelected in 2020. And then lastly, Jeff Flake is not on the ballot at all because he's retiring.

BRIGGS: All right, Jeffrey, Jonathan, Abby, David, thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, peal off the muzzle in the future.

BRIGGS: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Thank you all very much. Wolf Blitzer and Jake Tapper will lead CNN's special coverage of this historic hearing, right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Good morning and welcome to our special coverage of the Senate hearing for the U.S. Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh. I'm Wolf Blitzer.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And I'm Jake Tapper. Just 90 minutes from now, a remarkable, unprecedented, historic moment in time. Professor Christine Blasey Ford will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee and accuse Brett Kavanaugh, under oath, of sexually assaulting her decades ago, when they both were in high school.