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Sexual Assault Hotlines Report Uptick in Calls Following Ford Testimony; Nearly 400 Dead After Earthquake & Tsunami Strikes Indonesia. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 29, 2018 - 17:00   ET


[17:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: We are live in the CNN Newsroom, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York, great to have you with us. Now this additional FBI background investigation just ordered to look into Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh will include the allegations made by Deborah Ramirez, the second of three women to come forward with accusations of sexual misconduct.

Her attorney said this in a statement. We can confirm the FBI has reached out to interview Mrs. Ramirez. And she has agreed to cooperate with their investigation. Ramirez alleges Kavanaugh exposed himself to her when they were at Yale together. Of course the probe will also include the first accusation against Kavanaugh from Christine Balsey Ford.

Ford's friend Leland Keyser is now the latest witness to offer cooperation with the FBI. Other witnesses including Mark Judge, who Ford named as being in the room during her alleged attack, has also pledged to answer any and all questions. Now just a reminder, here is how Kavanaugh responded to his intensely watched hearing when he was asked whether he himself wanted an independent investigation.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Kavanaugh will you support an FBI investigation right now?

BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I will do what ever the committee wants that -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally do you think that's the best thing for us to do? You won't answer?

KAVANAUGH: You know look senator. I've said I wanted a hearing. And I said I was welcome to anything. I'm innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would hope that all the members of the committee would join me in saying we're going to abide by your wishes and we will have that investigation.

KAVANAUGH: I welcome what ever the committee wants to do because I'm telling the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you want to do. KAVANAUGH: I'm telling the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know what you want to do judge.

KAVANAUGH: I'm innocent.


CABRERA: Kavanaugh was pressed by several democratic senators on this. He never answered yes or no. But several times he did point to the statements that were already submitted by people identified by Ford as present at the party.


KAVANAUGH: You made a point. I just want to emphasize all four witnesses who were allegedly at the event have said it didn't happen. Including Dr. Fords long time friend Mrs. Keyser, the core of why were here is an allegation for which the four witnesses present have all said it didn't happen. The witnesses who were there say it didn't happen.


CABRERA: That's not exactly what they said. Here is what those potential witnesses he referenced actually said in their statements. They all either denied being at the party, didn't know about it, or said they didn't witness or recall an attack, not that it didn't happen. And that leaves one person Leland Keyser the friend Kavanaugh just mentioned out of that. Despite not remembering the party she does believe Christine Blasey Ford.

Kavanaugh was also questioned about his drinking in high school. Something he referenced in his year book and the calendar he turned over from 1982. Here's how Kavanaugh responded.


UNKNOWN FEMALE: Dr. Ford has described you as being intoxicated at a party. Did you consume alcohol during your high school years?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, we drank beer. My friends and I, boys and girls, yes. We drank beer, I liked beer. I still like beer. We drank beer, the drinking age as I noted was 18 so the seniors were legal. Senior year in high school people were legal to drink.


CABRERA: Now this is a little misleading. In Maryland the legal drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 in 1982. Kavanaugh didn't turn 18 until a year later. Meaning his drinking at 17 was never legal. And his drinking once he turned 18 wasn't legal either.

Kavanaugh went on to admit there were times he probably had too many beers. But he said he never blacked out, or drank to the point where he lost his memory. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN FEMALE: When you talked to Fox News the other night, you said that there were times in high school when people might have had too many beers on occasion. Does that include you?


UNKNOWN FEMALE: Have you ever passed out from drinking?

KAVANAUGH: I passed out would be no, but I've gone to sleep. But I've never blacked out.


CABRERA: After hearing that testimony on Thursday two of Kavanaugh's former classmates at Yale said he lied. We should add the first person we're about to show you Liz Swisher says she never saw Kavanaugh be sexually aggressive.


ELIZABETH SWISHER, FORMER KAVANAUGH CLASSMATE: There's no problem with drinking during college. The problem is lying about it. He drank heavily, he was a partier, he like to do beer bongs. He played drinking games. He was a sloppy drunk, he was more interested in impressing the boys than he was in impressing the girls. I never saw him be sexually aggressive, but he definitely was sloppy


[17:05:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no doubt in my mind that while at Yale he was a big partier, often drank to excess. And there had to be a number of nights where he does not remember. In fact I was witness to the night that he got tapped into that fraternity. And he was stumbling drunk in a ridicules costume saying really dumb things. And I can almost guarantee that there's no way that he remembers that night.


CABRERA: Also important to note, other class mates of Kavanaughs, at both Yale and Georgetown Prep have defended Kavanaughs character. Here's his high school friend Tom Kane.


TOM KANE, HS FRIEND OF KAVANAUGH: He's just not capable of doing this. I'll take, I will to the day I die I will believe that he did not do this. And there are other reasons. In our circle of those day's I pretty much knew what those five or six guys' were doing at every moment. And there was no memory of this. It didn't happen.


CABRERA: So what do you make of the inconstancies. Do they matter when it's your word against someone else's? Does it matter when you are interviewing to be on the highest court in the land for decades to come? These are questions the FBI maybe probing. And senators may be considering as they prepare to vote.

OK, let's talk now about the actual FBI investigation happening right now. This new probe ordered by the president, that is delaying the full senate vote on Brett Kavanaugh. James Gagliano, he made a career retiring from the agency as a supervisory special agent, and joins us now.

James let's put aside the mission statement for now. Put aside the bigger picture. What are FBI agents on the ground doing right now? Are they knocking on doors? Are the analyzing potential evidence?

JAMES GAGLIANO, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: You just laid it out there. That's absolutely what's going on. And let me say first Ana, I, we all rational people empathize with the accuser in this instance. I empathize also with the judge here. Because I know this is going to be a herculean task for FBI agents if he is innocent to basically go back and get his reputation back.

They're going to have to go back 36 years. Now we all know that they're have been six investigations into Judge Kavanaughs background. That's what the FBI does, they're called part of the special inquiry. It's usually run out of headquarters with leads farmed after particular field offices. In this instance those leads would probably start in the Baltimore field office, because Montgomery county is where this event apparently took place.

But to go back 36 years and to look into these nine things; character, associations, reputation, loyalties, abilities, bias, alcohol, drugs, those are the things that they're going to be charged with looking into. They're not going to try to disprove anything because they're going to interview folks. Folks are going to tell them this is what we think, or this is what we think didn't happen.

The FBI is just going to put that within the four corners of an FD- 302, a testimonial document. They're going to submit they're report and then the rest of us are going to make our assessments from the report.

CABRERA: And we don't know necessarily if that report is going to be publicized, right? It doesn't have to be. Would it normally be?

GAGLIANO: It wouldn't, but with the way D.C. is leaking lately, and especially DOJ and unfortunately at the FBI, the bureau that I served for 25 years, I can't imagine that it wouldn't. Now remember this also, back in 1991 we've been down this road before with the Clarence Thomas, Anita Hill hearings. In that instance Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill had worked together in 1982 and 1983 at the Department of Education and the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission.

FBI just needed to go back nine years. They investigated it for three days, they came back and they could find nothing to substantiate what Mrs. Hill's claims where. Yet now has Justice Thomas ever been able to get his reputation back? I fear that no matter what the findings are here one half of the country will not be satisfied. CABRERA: You mentioned the Anita Hill investigation took three days.

Is a week a good amount of time for this investigation?

GAGLIANO: That's been asked a lot. And I'll say this, if they find nothing that needs to be followed up on I think the FBI probably has they're top people on this. They're probably putting experienced agents on it. Not first office agents who typically work on a background or an applicant squad. They're going to put the resources, Director Wray is going to make sure that they have everything they need to do this.

It could be 10 agents, 15 agents, 20 agents, somewhere in the vicinity of that to chase these leads down. If they can't find anything to corroborate Mrs. Ford - Dr. Fords story. If they can't a week is a reasonable amount of time for this. If they find something that needs to be further pursued it could go longer. But I believe if it comes from the FBI the partisans will be OK with that.

CABRERA: Real quickly, republicans said repeatedly on Thursday that the FBI could have investigated these claims even if Ford had remained anonymous. Is that true?

GAGLIANO: They could have. Would it have been difficult? Look Dr. Fords story, there's some vagaries and gaps there that even with her testimony are going to be impossible to piece together. She doesn't know how she got home, she doesn't know the neighborhood. She doesn't know when the party actually happened.

With out her to interview to further interview, and with out her testifying it would have been looking for a needle in a haystack.

[17:10:00] CABRERA: Thank you so much, James Gagliano.

GAGLIANO: Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: Great to have you with us. You do such a good job giving us your expertise and helping to lay it out. We appreciate it.

President Trump is headlining a campaign rally in just a few hours now in West Virginia. White House Correspondent, Boris Sanchez, is there is Wheeling. Boris, the president is sort of out of character in the face of these Kavanaugh developments. He's been pretty quiet. He's supportive of the Senate process, putting the FBI to work even though he has been very critical of the agency. What have you heard about his message later on stage there?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Ana. Well, we got a bit of perhaps a preview of what President Trump may say here in Wheeling, West Virginia later tonight in about two hours when this rally begins.

He actually just spoke as he was departing the White House to reporters. We're working now to get that tape on the air, but President Trump was asked about this nomination process for Judge Brett Kavanaugh, and he says that he believes it is going very well. He says the FBI's all over it. He says of Judge Kavanaugh that he is a high quality person. He's expecting this to turn out well.

He also said notably that the FBI has free reign over this probe that is said to last one week before the Senate Judiciary Committee will advance this vote to the wider floor of the Senate to then potentially confirm Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.

The president also saying that he hopes at the conclusion it will all be fine. He says this could be a blessing in disguise. You can juxtapose that with what we've heard from sources inside the White House telling my colleague, Jeff Zeleny, that President Trump was not happy with this latest delay in the confirmation process, that he's blaming Arizona senator, Jeff Flake, along with some Democrats.

Unclear if President Trump will mention Jeff Flake, but he did tweet about one Democratic senator a short while ago, and that is Connecticut senator Richard Blumenthal, President Trump pointing out an episode earlier in Blumenthal's political career when he had claimed to have served overseas as a Marine in Vietnam. That claim ended up not being true, Ana. Of course, Blumenthal during Kavanaugh's confirmation process questioned his credibility, even getting up and walking out during the confirmation process.

Again, we'll see if the president mentions Flake or Blumenthal or Ford and her accusations during this rally in West Virginia said to start in just under two hours, Ana.

CABRERA: All right, Boris Sanchez, you will be there. You will bring us the highlights. We appreciate it. Let's expand our conversation, and joining us now we got a high power ladies panel, CNN Political Commentator, Maria Cardona, Democratic Strategist, CNN Political Commentator, Alice Stewart, a Republican Strategist, S.E. Cupp, the host of CNN's S.E. Cupp Unfiltered coming up the top the hour, and Caroline Polisi, federal and white collar criminal defense attorney.

So Caroline, I'll start with you. Before we get into all the politics, we know this second accuser, Debbie Ramirez, is now going to be interviewed by the FBI. Nothing about the third accuser, Julie Swetnick, at this point who says Brett Kavanaugh and Mark Judge were present at the time she herself was being (ph) raped. It doesn't say that they were involved with that specifically.

Which of the two women who we know are part of this investigation do you think are going to be able to be easier to investigate in terms of their stories?

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL AND WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, that's hard to say. Both investigations likely have their own unique situations. I think when you think about the incidents, it's interesting that they both bear similarities, which is you have Brett Kavanaugh at the scene of the crime and then you have somebody sort of egging him on and laughing, right?

We heard Dr. Ford's, that heartfelt testimony, the uproarious laughter is what she remembers. When you think about an FBI criminal investigation, the name of the game is corroboration. So obviously they are going to want to talk to Mark Judge in the case of Dr. Ford's allegation. He is, I think, the most important witness in this entire investigation, and then talk to the Yale roommates of Debbie Ramirez who were there at the party. That's really what this is all about.

CABRERA: Maria, does this new investigation essentially change the game for Democrats who have been claiming Republicans don't want the truth?

MARIA CARDONA. DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think it certainly helps in underscoring that at least the FBI is wanting to get to some semblance of the truth no matter how difficult that is, but I will tell you that for most Democrats their mind is made up, and I don't blame them because many of them - in fact, many Americans believe that Judge Kavanaugh already perjured himself under oath. You even talk about - before this segment, you talked about many of his inconsistencies that you could essentially say were lies that he talked about under oath.

[17:15:00] And when you look at somebody who is about to be nominated for the highest court in the land, what he said under oath about some of the very specifics of the things he talked about whether it was a drinking age in Maryland at 18, whether it was what other people had said under oath, you would think that for the testimony of his life that he would be as careful, as truthful, as close to the word-for- word documentation that exists on the record that he could because that is how important it was.

If he was so flippant about wanting to be - you know, wanting to misguide everybody during his testimony, what does that mean for the Supreme Court appointment? I just don't think he showed himself to be of the character and certainly not of the temperament. We saw his rage and his fury, and that is not a good look for a Supreme Court justice.

CABRERA: OK, lots to dig in there, and I'm going to come back to you, Caroline, on the idea of whether he possibly was lying and what that means, but S.E. first was king of talking about this investigation, Republicans finally - at least some of them, Jeff Flake and then others like Collins and Murkowski said they agree with this move, they're now doing it but they could have done it earlier. They could have called for more information sooner. Would they be in a better place right now politically speaking if they had done this immediately?

POLISI: I would ask the same of Democrats. Democrats could have done this earlier, too -

CABRERA: But didn't Democrats -

POLISI: - Democrats had the information -

CABRERA: - call for the investigation as soon as Ford came forward and as well asked for the investigation immediately?

POLISI: Senator Dianne Feinstein held this letter at Ford's request.

CABRERA: Right. POLISI: And for weeks did not tell law enforcement, did not tell the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman. So, I mean, we can go back and say would have, could have, should have. The bottom line is Democrats were asking for, I think rightly, more time and an investigation. They got one.

And so, we can argue over how we got here, but we got here, and it's a good thing that we are here. I think it's good for Republicans because even if Brett Kavanaugh gets confirmed, they can say it wasn't in spite of the lack of an investigation. It's certainly good for Democrats because they've been demanding this. They got it.

I think it's very good for Christine Ford who can at least have some assurance that these allegations are not being systematically ignored, and ultimately I think it's good for Brett Kavanaugh that he can say, "yes, investigate. Investigate all of these witnesses. Talk to them on the record, under oath," because I think he believes he has nothing to hide. So I think it's a win all around.

CABRERA: Although he didn't say he himself wanted the investigation to clear his name.

CARDONA: Yes. Too bad he didn't say it earlier.

CABRERA: But Alice, let me ask you about your opinion piece that you wrote this week. I think that -

CARDONA: He can't win -

CABRERA: - get your perspective on all of this as well. It is kind of a situation damned if you do, damned if you don't.


CABRERA: I see the political quandary that you all are in, but Alice, you've said Republicans have to stand together in a united front to defend Kavanaugh since Democrats have already made up their minds. Some would say Republicans have made up their minds, too, even before they heard from Kavanaugh and Ford and their hearing this week.

But if something damning does come up, say and eye witness, how should Republicans handle this?

STEWART: Well, if something damning does come up, that would mean that Judge Kavanaugh has lied, and lying is disqualifying. However, I don't expect that to happen. I think it's also important to note while Maria said some Republicans have already had their mind made up, a lot of Democrats have, too, as she has also pointed out.


STEWART: Just last week - it seems like it's dog years ago, but it's just last week we had Hawaii senator Mazie Hirono on with Jake Tapper saying that Judge Kavanaugh does not deserve the presumption of innocence, which is absolutely, positively not true. But I'm glad we're at this point. I'm glad the FBI is looking into this because, A, for one the Democrats have been asking for this. Number two, this will help, as S.E. said, Doctor Ford realize that all of her allegations are being fully vetted and we're going to reach more of a conclusion, but at the end of the day, I still think we're going to come down to her saying unequivocally 100 percent that it did happen, him saying 100 percent that he did not do it, and we're having zero cooperation by other people.

We have no one to cooperate her story. The four people she said were involved said that they have no recollection of this. So at the end of the day in this day in age with 36-year-old allegation, we will have no blue gap dress -

CABRERA: It's possible.

STEWART: - we will have no Access Hollywood tape. We'll have her claims against his, and at the end of the day it is what's - who do you believe, who do you think is telling the truth. In this case, I stand by Judge Kavanaugh based on his character and his integrity and his lifetime of service and the kind of man that I know he is and many people that have vouched for his character.

[17:20:00] CABRERA: I mean, it is very likely that we will not end up with hard evidence of what happened when it comes to these sexual misconduct allegations, but Caroline, we played that mashup at the beginning and show a lot of the testimony from the court room which - or not the court room, but the hearing room, which obviously it was a long, long hearing so we couldn't play it all, but we're going -- we have some video of the president, who I believe, is just landing in Virginia -- West Virginia. Let's see -- let's listen in for just a quick second.


TRUMP: The FBI, as you know is all over talking to everybody and I would expect -- he's a very high quality person, I would expect is going to turn out very well for the judge. There's never been anybody that's been looked at like Judge Kavanaugh. I think that it's going to work out very well, but the FBI, I believe, is doing a really great job. They have been all over, already.


TRUMP: Yes, they have free reign. They're going to do whatever they have to do, whatever it is they do, they'll be doing things that we never even thought of and hopefully at the conclusion everything will be fine.


TRUMP: What?

UNKNOWN MALE: Do you still believe that Kavanaugh did nothing wrong?

TRUMP: Yes, I do. Yes, I think he's great. I don't think there's ever been any person that's been under scrutiny like he has been. I think it's been a very tough process. But, he's a good man, he's a great judge.

This is a great judge, highly respected for many, many years and at the top of the list and I hope everything works out great, but I will say, there are a lot of people going out right now working very hard.

I'm going to West Virginia, we have a big crowd, if any of you are going and we're going to have a lot of fun, we're going to have a rally and it's going to be a lot of fun, but ...


TRUMP: Well, I think we have close race. That's going to be a race. We have a lot of close races. We have races, as an example, in the Senate, we're having races that nobody thought were possible and now they're tied and actually Republicans are winning.

And, I really believe when the public looks at the situation that's taken place over the last three or four days and what the Democrats are doing, and more importantly, how they're acting, so terribly, so dishonestly, keeping papers and documents, not releasing them until after hearings are over. I really think the Republicans are picking up a lot. I really believe that. I'll see you -- I will see you in West Virginia. Okay?


TRUMP: Well, I think it's fine. I think -- actually this could be a blessing in disguise, because having the FBI go out, do a thorough investigation, whether it's three days or seven days, I think it's going to be less than a week, but having them doing a thorough investigation, I actually think, will be a blessing in disguise. It will be a good thing. I'll see you in ...


TRUMP: I don't have any -- I don't need a backup plan, we'll have to see what happens. I think he's going to be fine. Again, one of the most respected men and certainly one of the most respected jurors -- or judges in the United States.


TRUMP: Oh, I think she was. But, we're going to have to find out. I think, frankly, the FBI has a chance to reveal a lot of different things. I'd like to find out who leaked the papers. Was it Senator Feinstein, because certainly her body language was not exactly very good when they asked her that question, so I would like to find out, as part of it, who leaked the papers? Which Democrat leaked the papers? Thank you very much everybody.


CABRERA: The president ahead of his rally in West Virginia. Back to you, he says the FBI has free reign. They're going to look into everything. If they come up with some fact that shows Kavanaugh had blacked out when he testified he never did, like a video let's say, could he be in legal trouble Caroline?

POLISI: Well, that question really highlights sort of the peculiar nature of this investigation in the first place. I have to respectfully disagree with Alice. Judge Kavanaugh is entitled to the presumption of innocence in a criminal court context.

When you talk about due process, you talk about the Fifth Amendment and the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and it has to do with the deprivation of life, liberty or property, none of which are being taken away from Judge Kavanaugh here.

It's not a right to sit on the Supreme Court, so when you talk about due process and a presumption of innocence, that is not necessarily that we're from here. Now, we don't really know that standards that we're working from here, Ana, because nobody's really set forth the boundaries. It's each -- up to each individual senator to decide on his or her own terms, what they believe is the right thing to do and whether or not they believe --

CABRERA: Go ahead, quickly.

CARDONA: Yes, and Ana, to underscore Caroline's point. This is a job interview. Let's remember this. Let's all put ourselves in a position of either being a CEO or S.C., for example, if you were interviewing to have a male cohost of your show and your show was made of majority female viewers, these kind of accusations come up publically, you talk to the accuser, you talk to the accused, three other allegations come up, I don't think you would hire that person.


And so, these -- this is the kind of question we have to ask ourselves. This is the highest honor and privilege to be on one of nine lifetime appointments to the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, the most important legal office, I would say, in the world. Can Republican's not find one person that does not have these kinds of allegations? Do they really want to put somebody on the court with this kind of cloud?

CABRERA: Okay, let's let them answer. Let's let them answer. Our Republicans here with us, we've got Alice Steward, S.E. Cupp; S.E. you take -- make -- take a crack at it first.

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: That was a lot. We have anti-discrimination hiring laws.

CABRERA: Is there -- is there another person though that Republican's should be putting forward? Should they have a backup plan and is there somebody --

CUPP: Do you really believe that the Democrats would vote for anyone Donald Trump's appointed? Please. Spare me. I love this ...

CARDONA: What about Judge Corsuch? CUPP: Well, we'll be open to anyone else. Please.

CARDONA: Judge Corsuch, S.E. Cupp. He has --

CABRERA: -- Democrats and --

CUPP: I don't think so Maria. It's not apples -- because that's not an apple for an apple.

CARDONA: They did.


CUPP: -- come on, come on, I'm not stupid. But listen, look, this is a job interview in which the candidate is being accused of crimes. I think while the legal standard, Caroline, you're right, is different than this court of public opinion, court of politics, court of credibility, as Mazie Hirono called it, we should be better than this, on both sides, of condemning a man who's been accused of horrific things with zero corroboration and of dismissing outright these allegations as meaningless or unimportant because of politics. We should be better than this and as the mother of a son, I would hope that there are higher standards for how we take these allegations before we destroy a person's life.

And believe me, yesterday, in the "U.S. Today's" sports section, a writer there accused Brett Kavanaugh of being a child molester and said he should not be around children on his kids basketball teams until an investigation happens. That is where we're at and it's appalling. We all need to have (inaudible) on this.

STEWART: Because it is appalling.

CABRERA: Okay, and we've got to leave it there. You know what, let me give you the last quick word Alice and then I've really got to go.

STEWART: I understand. Look, I think it's important to remember and point out, Chuck Schumer and other Democrats from the very beginning of this process made it quite clear, the Democrats would anything and everything to stop Judge Kavanaugh and as S.E. said, that would apply to any person that Donald Trump nominated to the Supreme Court because of one word, abortion. These Democrats are doing anything underhanded they possibly can to stop another Supreme Court nominee and Justice that would protect --

CARDONA: We didn't do this.

STEWART: -- that would protect and support Roe v. Wade and that is exactly what is on the plate here.

CARDONA: This is not coming --


CABRERA: All right, everybody, thank you so much. S.E., Alice, Caroline and Maria, we appreciate and make sure tune in, don't forget S.E. Cupp unfiltered at the top of the hour here on CNN. We'll be right back.


[17:32:38] CABRERA: In blue states and red states, sexual assault survivors across the nation paid close attention this week when Christine Blasey Ford told her story on Capitol Hill. Watch.


CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD, KAVANAUGH ACCUSER: I believed he was going to rape me. I tried to yell for help. When I did, Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me from yelling. This is what terrified me the most and it's had the most lasting impact on my life. It was hard for me to breathe and I thought that Brett was accidentally going to kill me.


CABRERA: Joining us, Danielle Campoamor, senior editor for "Romper" and "Bustle" columnist

Danielle, you wrote a moving op-ed this week following the hearing, describing what a harrowing experience it was to listen to Ford and her testimony. I'm hoping you can provide all of us a little bit of understanding of your experience, what it is like to be in your shoes as a survivor of sex assault yourself. What was the impact?

DANIELLE CAMPOAMOR, SENIOR EDITOR, ROMPER & COLUMNIST, BUSTLE: I think the best way to describe it would be retraumatizing, watching her, listening to her, her voice wavering. What stood out is how apologetic she was, constantly saying she was sorry she couldn't remember more, sorry she couldn't be more helpful. It immediately brought me back to my experience in front of a police officer telling them that I had be sexual assaulted just 30 minutes prior, and in the same breath, apologizing to the police officer because I had been drinking, because I didn't know if I wanted to go forward, I was so afraid nothing was going to happen. Sure enough, a year later nothing did happen. So to watch her apologize, to have her sit there and relive this trauma for all of us in front of a bunch of men, who didn't even have the courage to ask her questions themselves, it brought me back to moments after I had been assaulted.

CABRERA: Judge Kavanaugh then took over the testimony. Let's listen to a portion.


BRETT KAVANAUGH, U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: This whole two-week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled with apparent pent up anger about President Trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about my judicial record, revenge on behalf of the Clintons, and millions of dollars in money from outside leftwing opposition groups. This is a circus.


[17:35:23] CABRERA: Danielle, what was your reaction, what went through your mind as you watched him testify?

CAMPOAMOR: I was immediately jarred by how angry he was, and that anger mirrored the anger my assaulter had. It was such a juxtaposition to see her so timid and wanting to be so helpful and him come out and be so angry and then to say it was all a political ploy, marrying what the GOP has been saying, it was just the only thing I could think of was here we go again.

CABRERA: What could he have said or done if he is trying to defend against accusations that he says he is innocent of. Could he have done something differently that would have made you feel better?

CAMPOAMOR: I think one, not being so angry, not being so dismissive. He says he has no ill will against her, yet, he is claiming she's a political pawn. He says that he is open to clearing his name in whatever way necessary but didn't want an FBI investigation to happen. It is one thing to say you respect a survivor of sexual assaults, but if your actions don't back it up, if you aren't going to be supportive and say, I am innocent and want her to be heard in a manner that will then lead to an investigation, lead to people looking into the details of her alleged assaults, then I don't buy it at all.

CABRERA: Thank you so much, Danielle, for giving us your perspective. Appreciate it.

CAMPOAMOR: Thank you.

CABRERA: We are closely following breaking news out of Indonesia today where a strong 7.5 earthquake and subsequent tsunami have left hundreds of people dead and rescuers frantically searching for survivors. We have the details just ahead.


[17:41:37] CABRERA: A desperate search for survivors in Indonesia after a tsunami devastated a coastal city. The catastrophic waves and the ensuing chaos all caught on camera.




CABRERA: At least 384 people are now dead following the earthquake and the tsunami. Hundreds have been injured, at least 29 people are missing.

CNN international correspondent, Matt Rivers, has more.


MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest death toll that we have now is 384 people after this earthquake and the tsunami that it triggered, but unfortunately, we do expect that death toll to go up as rescuers continue to try and account for the people that are missing after that tsunami. They certainly have their work cut out for them. We know roads in the area are closed. We know the airport has a major crack in the runway. It is also closed at this point. It is in a remote part of eastern Indonesia, so getting the help the people will need will be difficult in the days and probably weeks ahead.

We know the earthquake happened Friday, the tsunami was triggered shortly thereafter. You can see how powerful of a force it was. Video circulated shortly after the tsunami hit that shows a wave which researchers say was at least 10 feet high, just come right ashore, barrel through an entire neighborhood, taking along several structures in that video along with it.

This could get worse if only because the city of Dongola, right near Palu where the earthquake happened, that city is currently out of communication. Rescuers cannot get in touch with that city. There's around 300,000 people that live there. So if you're wondering if the situation could get worse, look at the amount of people that live there. They have not yet been in touch with rescuers. They're certainly going to need help if the damage in Dongola is anything like it was in Palu.

This is very much a developing story. We're going to keep a close eye on it. Right now, 384 dead but we do expect that number to rise, and probably rise drastically.

Matt Rivers, CNN, Indonesia.


CABRERA: We have some breaking news into CNN. Tesla CEO Elon Musk will no longer be chairman of the board of the car company he founded. Details on that just ahead.

But first, in one of the final remaining episodes of CNN's original series, "PARTS UNKNOWN," Anthony Bourdain travels to Spain with Chef Jose Andres for a taste of the Spanish countryside.



ANTHONY BOURDAIN, FORMER CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN" (voice-over): Welcome to the enchanted, seldom-visited wonderland of Asturias. That's in Spain, if you didn't know.

Of course, because it is Spain, I did not come here alone. I came here with a good friend, great chef.

(on camera): He's a complicated man. Nobody understands him but his woman. I am not talking about John Shaft. Shut your mouth. I am talking about Jose Andres.



[17:45:04] BOURDAIN: The only chef in the history of America ever to be sued by a sitting president. So proud of him.


ANDRES: All right, cut!


CABRERA: You can watch "PARTS UNKNOWN" tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.


[17:49:57] CABRERA: Breaking news from the business world. Elon Musk soon to be out as chairman of Tesla Motors. It's a settlement reached between Musk and the Securities and Exchange Commission after the SEC brought securities fraud charges against him last week. In the final deal, Musk will remain as CEO but must resign as chairman of the board with 45 days. There's also a hefty fine, $40 million from Tesla corporation and from Elon Musk personally. The SEC says Musk mislead investors by falsely saying he had secure funding to take Tesla to $120 per share, which then boosted the stock price dramatically.

Media pioneer and CNN founder, Ted Turner, is battling a brain disease known as Lewy body dementia. In an interview that will air tomorrow on CBS, Turner describes his condition, saying it is similar to Alzheimer's, but not as severe, and leaves him feeling tired, exhausted and mainly forgetful. He also says he doesn't watch news often anymore but he still checks in on CNN. Turner led Turner Broadcasting Systems before launching CNN back in 1980. He stepped down as chairman, or vice chairman, I should say, in 2003.

We'll be right back.


[17:55:37] CABRERA: Young minors are being lured, threatened, beaten, and sold for sex every day in the United States. This week's "CNN Hero," who was herself a victim at age 16 and offers a safe place for survivors to heal and build new lives. Meet Susan Munsey.


SUSAN MUNSEY, CNN HERO: Nobody wakes up and just decides one day I'm going to sale my body and give the money away. Traffickers or pimps know exactly what they are doing. Much is on the Internet. They go dating Web sites and they're gaming. They're looking for young, vulnerable women anywhere where young women might hang out.

My vision was to have a home where women could come and find safety and find themselves.


CABRERA: To hear Susan's personal story, go to CNN

That does it for me for now. I'm Ana Cabrera, in New York.