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Don Lemon Tonight

Judge Brett Kavanaugh Admits Being a Heavy Beer Drinker; Former Kavanaugh's Classmates Say Kavanaugh Lied; Judge Brett Kavanaugh's Admission to Liking Alcohol; Sexual Misconduct Allegations Against Judge Kavanaugh; Saturday Night Live's 44th Season. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 01, 2018 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: So where does that leave the senators? Does any lie matter? Do repeated lies matter? How about lies shouted with belligerent and disrespect to senators? How about lies cloaked in spurious political rationales like the Clintons did it to cover for what he was covering?

Those could be relevant considerations, and those are for the senators. Let's hope that their decision is made more easy by what the FBI finds out, but we will track it every night.

"CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts right now.

What do you think?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You know what I think? I think if you -- and I've said this to you before. If you lie about the small things, imagine what you're going to do about the big things.

CUOMO: I can hear my pop looking at me and saying, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus when I would lie about what time I came in--

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: -- stupidly forgetting that there were state troopers keeping a ledger at the front gate that I would hop over, stupidly thinking that the cameras wouldn't catch me. And he would say you lied about when you came in because you don't want me to know where you are, so it's a real edict.

It's a real thing in the law. But will it be real for the senators or will it be seen as beside the point of what matters, Don?

LEMON: Yes. I don't know if it's going to change any -- I think most people's minds are already made up sadly. And that's too bad. But I think it does matter. You know, we're talking about bar fights and we're talking all those things. Those things in a vacuum don't really mean that much.

CUOMO: I agree.

LEMON: Right? When they start, right, when they adding up and adding up and then it becomes evidence of -- not evidence. I should say a pattern of behavior. And that may be OK for a lot of people in this society, but is it OK? That's what we have to decide.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I'm still to blame him for his college days.

LEMON: Is this OK for someone who--

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I think you judge him as the man that he has become or the woman that they have become as opposed to looking back at just their youth as a reason to damn them. But this is different. He is telling the truth about it or not in real-time as a 53-year-old man.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And I believe what I argued tonight. I don't always. Sometimes I'm just making an argument because I think it's provocative.

But there's a good reason for him to have lied about things. People are saying, he should have never lied about this. It's such small stuff. If he had said, I drunk my butt off on a regular basis. I got drunk, I blacked out.

Somebody on that panel, he's smart enough to know would have said, then you can't deny the Ford allegation because maybe you were drunk that night like she says, and then you wouldn't remember. He didn't want to give them that.

LEMON: You can say how many people who have, you know, blacked out drunk or passed out ever done anything like that.

CUOMO: Very few.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Usually, this--

CUOMO: I don't think one goes along with the other.

LEMON: Yes. But if you set yourself up to be a choir boy, there had damn well better be evidence that you are a choir boy.

CUOMO: You better be able to sing.

LEMON: You better be able -- exactly. Thank you, my friend.

CUOMO: Always a pleasure. I look forward to the show.

LEMON: Good to see you. I'll see you soon.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

You want to stay tuned because we're going to talk to a police chief who may have some information about that alleged bar fight. We'll get to that in a moment.

We're going to start with this breaking news. This is the breaking news. This alleged bar fight where Kavanaugh was reportedly questioned by police during his junior year at Yale, well, Kavanaugh was not arrested.

But a 21-year-old man accused him of throwing ice on him, quote, "for some unknown reason." Chad Ludington was at Yale with Kavanaugh. He was also at the party and says Kavanaugh threw ice at the man. A witness told police that Chris Dudley, a Yale basketball player and a friend of Kavanaugh, hit the man in the ear with a glass.

Dudley went on to play for the NBA. He was also a 2010 Republican candidate for governor of Oregon. And just a few days ago, he said "there was drinking, and there was alcohol. Brett drank, and I drank. Did he get inebriated sometimes? Yes. Did I? Yes, just like every other college kid in America."

But not every college kid in America gets into a bar fight that ends at a police station. But some do, and hopefully no one is permanently injured, and they grow up and life goes on, lesson learned, right?

So why is this relevant? Why is it relevant? It's relevant because there are serious questions tonight about the veracity of Brett Kavanaugh's claims about drinking under oath. How much he drank and how regularly and whether he could have had blackouts from his drinking. And we are going to go through those tonight and see where we are with this, beginning with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I watched him. I was surprised at how vocal he was about the fact that he likes beer and he's had a little bit of difficulty. I mean he talked about things that happened when he drank. I mean this is not a man that said that alcohol was -- that he was perfect with respect to alcohol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the interesting thing about that is Brett Kavanaugh didn't say he had difficulty with alcohol. If he had acknowledged that at any point along the way, whether in his first round of testimony, his Fox News interview, his multiple statements, his testimony last week, we might not be having this conversation.

[22:05:14] Remember with Senator Klobuchar, she said he asked her a question, and she said, I don't have a drinking problem, and he said, neither do I. So he did acknowledge, though, that he likes beer a lot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: The calendars show a few weekday gatherings at friends' houses after a workout or just to meet up and have some beers. I drank beer with my friends. Almost everyone did. Sometimes I had too many beers. Sometimes others did. I liked beer. I still like beer. Yes, we drank beer, my friends and I, boys and girls. Yes, we drank

beer. I liked beer, still like beer. We drank beer. We drank beer, and -- you know, so did I think the vast majority of people our age at the time. But in any event, we drank beer and -- and still do.

So whatever -- you know, yes, we drank beer. And I said sometimes -- sometimes probably had too many beers and sometimes other people had too many beers. We drank beer. We like beer.

RACHEL MITCHELL, PROSECUTOR: What do you consider to be too many beers?

KAVANAUGH: I don't know. You know, we -- whatever the chart says, blood alcohol chart. I got a weak stomach whether it's with beer or with spicy food or any of that. I like beer. I like beer. I don't know if you like beer, senator?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Plenty of people drink beer, right? There's nothing wrong with -- nothing wrong with drinking beer. But not telling the truth about your drinking, now that is a problem, especially when you are under oath.

And Chad Ludington says that's exactly what he did. He lied about his drinking. That's according to Chad Ludington. You heard what he told Chris Cuomo just a short time ago. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHAD LUDINGTON, FORMER BRETT KAVANAUGH'S CLASSMATE AT YALE UNIVERSITY: Yes, I believe that he lied and distorted and dissembled to the Senate judiciary committee. He obviously acknowledged drinking beer and beer and beer.

But he also -- and he did say on occasion I had too much, and then he also on occasion others had too much. But for me, he never acknowledged that he -- that he got to the point that he might not actually remember something. And I find that very hard to believe frankly. I find that impossible to believe actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So I want you to listen to this now. This is Liz Swisher, who also went to Yale with Brett Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ SWISHER, FORMER BRETT KAVANAUGH'S CLASSMATE AT YALE UNIVERSITY: I've known Brett since the very beginning of freshman year. He was always one of the beer-drinking boys, and I drank beer with him. I liked beer. There's no problem with drinking beer in college. The problem is lying about it.

He drank heavily. He was a partier. He liked to do beer bongs. He played drinking games. He was a sloppy drunk. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: These people like beer a lot. There's a lot of beer-liking. So now some people will say that, what difference does it make how much he drank when he was a teenager? Even when he was at Yale?

Well, let me tell you why it matters. If Judge Kavanaugh admits that he drank that much in the past, even though he swears he never sexually assaulted anyone, a lot of people are going to wonder if he did it. And maybe he doesn't even remember it.

That's why the FBI is expanding its investigation tonight, including talking to Kavanaugh's high school friend, Mark Judge, and that's exactly what should happen -- an investigation. That is the only way we have any hope of getting to the truth.

But I guess it's no surprise that some Republicans are resorting to what sounds like a pretty desperate ploy to me. Trying to compare all of this to -- wait for it -- McCarthyism. This is Mitch McConnell today, the majority leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) MAJORITY LEADER, KENTUCKY: This institution has seen before episodes somewhat like what we're now seeing from some of our colleagues across the aisle.

Back during the McCarthy era. In fact, in 1950, character assassination and uncorroborated allegations were being utilized in a very different debate in that era.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:01] LEMON: John Cornyn last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN, (R) TEXAS: I can't think of a more embarrassing scandal for the United States Senate since the McCarthy hearings when the comment was about the cruelty of the process toward the people involved. And the question was asked, have you no sense of decency? And I'm afraid we've lost that, at least for the time being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, that's a heavy comparison and not an accurate one because this is not McCarthyism. McCarthyism was a sickness that infected American politics for years. It ruined the lives of countless people. A sickness that began in 1950 when McCarthy claimed that 250 people at the State Department were communists, and didn't end until this moment, four years later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER SEN. JOSEPH MCCARTHY (R), WISCONSIN: May I say that Mr. Welch talks about this being cruel and reckless. He was just -- he has been baiting Mr. Cohen here for hours, requesting that Mr. Cohen before sundown get out of any department of the government, anyone who is serving the communist cause.

Now, I've reviewed this man's record, and I want to say, Mr. Welch, that it has been labeled long before he became a member, as early as 1944--

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belongs to the miners guild. And Mr. Cohen nods his head at me. I did you, I think, no personal injury, Mr. Cohen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I meant to do you no personal injury.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if I did, I beg your pardon. Let us not assassinate this lad further. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, again, I say this is not McCarthyism. This is a search for the truth about a man who is nominated to the Supreme Court, a man whose decisions could affect every single American for years to come. Every one of us deserves to know the truth.

And I mentioned that Brett Kavanaugh was questioned by New Haven police after a bar fight in 1985. I want to go to Chief Anthony Campbell now on the phone. Good evening, chief. Good to have you on. So how did this police report from 1985 come to light?

ANTHONY CAMPBELL, CHIEF, NEW HAVEN POLICE DEPARTMENT: It came to light through a Freedom of Information request here at the police department by some people who were inquiring as to a gentleman that I believe I heard you mention earlier, who had been arrested, that they felt Mr. Kavanaugh may have been with that night.

LEMON: Yes. His name is Chad Ludington. And let's listen to him. This is how he described the incident to Chris just last hour. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUDINGTON: Brett took umbrage at this and threw his beer at the guy. I actually now found out from the report that it wasn't beer. That I had misremembered. Brett said (muted) or something to that effect and threw the ice at the guy. And the guy understandably, even though he had been aggressive in his response, found that was a little one step too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So when he says he took umbrage to it, he says it began with an exchange with someone at the bar. His group of friends had confused for someone else. That person then made a snide remark and then the whole thing rolled out, does transpired from there. Does that confirm or conform to what police gathered that night?

CAMPBELL: It does according to the report, it conforms exactly to that account, yes.

LEMON: And so Brett Kavanaugh was not arrested?

CAMPBELL: He was not arrested, no.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But it shows--

CAMPBELL: The report indicates that he was reported by witnesses to have thrown ice at a gentleman, but he was not arrested that evening.

LEMON: So his was for throwing ice at someone?

CAMPBELL: Yes.

LEMON: OK. So the report says that Kavanaugh threw this ice at a man for some unknown reason. Did it give the reason in this report? Is it still unknown, or what did it say?

CAMPBELL: Yes. It is still unknown mainly because later when Mr. Kavanaugh was questioned as to whether or not he threw the ice, he refused to answer.

LEMON: He didn't want to say, according to the report, whether he threw the ice or not. I mean does that -- what does that mean? Does that matter to police?

[22:15:04] CAMPBELL: It does matter. I mean, the primary gentleman who was arrested had been witnessed by multiple people as having thrown a beer glass which impacted the victim's ear. There was some bleeding.

And as the report indicates, that what precipitated this, the argument or a negative interaction heated up, according to the report, when the ice was thrown by Mr. Kavanaugh. So I think, you know, when he was questioned about it, having seen the results, he chose not to say whether or not he had or had not.

LEMON: Does the report say anything about the level of intoxication of the assailants?

CAMPBELL: It does not.

LEMON: It does not?

CAMPBELL: It does not mention it on that occasion for any parties involved.

LEMON: It is common -- is it common for charges not to be filed in incidents like these?

CAMPBELL: In many instances, it depends upon the officer's discretion, and it also could be that the report does indicate that a detective was notified after the incident, which could mean that follow-up investigative services would have been performed with a warrant that would have been applied for -- if an on-site arrest had not been done right then and there.

LEMON: Do you know if anyone in this report listed here -- if they were known to police? Is there any indication at the department that they were?

CAMPBELL: No indication as of this time.

LEMON: Has the FBI gotten in touch with you about this report?

CAMPBELL: They have not, not as of yet.

LEMON: Chief Campbell, thank you so much for your time.

CAMPBELL: Anytime. Thank you for having me.

LEMON: Absolutely. We've got a lot more to talk about. Susan Glasser, Jack Quinn, Stuart Kaplan are all here with me. We're going to get into it when we come back.

[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news, Brett Kavanaugh was questioned by police after a bar fight in 1985. The police report surfacing tonight shows one person ended up going to the hospital after the fight.

Susan Glasser is CNN's global affairs analyst. Jack Quinn is our legal analyst, and Stuart Kaplan is a former FBI agent, all here to break this down for us. Good evening to all of you.

Jack, in terms of overall, this overall investigation, how big of a deal is this report that Kavanaugh was in a bar fight?

JACK QUINN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, in and of itself, it's not a gigantic deal. Look, I mean at issue here, I think, is Brett Kavanaugh's credibility. He has painted a picture of himself that would lead one to believe that he wouldn't end up in a bar fight.

So this is on top of testimony before the Senate committee in which some felt that he clearly misled the committee about a number of things, not most of all the question of his drinking, but things like the testimony or the statements of the people who were supposedly at this house party, which he characterized as in effect saying it never happened when, in fact, the witnesses didn't say that.

There are a host of other things as you well know which were, at best, misleading. And I think that the misleading nature of that testimony is what is critically important.

But, you know, look, this is -- this is material because his condition during the time of the alleged incident is relevant to Dr. Ford's statement, testimony against him. So it's part of the overall picture. It's relevant, and it's something that, you know, clearly the FBI is going to be looking at.

LEMON: So, Susan, here's the thing. College kid. There's a disturbance in a bar. The cops are called. Somebody is throwing ice. On the surface, I mean, come on. I mean it's not that big a deal. We've seen it. I was in college. I saw people fighting all the time. I saw the cops come and what have you.

But he's painted himself as this person who, you know, maybe I had a couple beers, but I was great. I was mostly at skew and -- I don't know. I forget. Donny, whatever his name is, Tobin's house lifting weights or what have you.

And then, so there are questions surrounding his drinking and whether he told the truth when he was testifying. So why can't he just admit that he drank as a college student and that he may have had these episodes?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, that's right. I mean, look, first of all, none of us really wants to live, relive high school in the 1980s or college for that matter, and you know, that is one of the many unpleasant aspects--

LEMON: Yes.

GLASSER: -- of this scandal, speaking of someone who went to high school and college in the '80s.

The flashback I'm having, though, is actually to a different historical parallel that you pointed out. The Republicans today are, you know, calling this McCarthyism and that seems pretty off as a comparison.

But, you know, I'm remembering Brett Kavanaugh as a prosecutor for Ken Starr during the Clinton investigation. And in the similarity in particular, this debate that we had for the whole 14 months of that, over what to make of was it really fundamentally a scandal about the president lying under oath? Was it about perjury, or was it about the underlying allegations about the impropriety of President Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

And, you know, in many ways there is an almost uncanny parallel here. Is this a national debate we're now having about Brett Kavanaugh's honesty under oath at the Senate judiciary committee, or is this a process and an investigation designed to get us to an underlying truth?

I am struck by the fact, the fury that you hear from Mitch McConnell and other Republicans. You know, this process is unlike any other process, any other investigation we've ever seen before.

It's frankly, it's a circus. It's embarrassing to the Senate. And, you know, if McConnell had the votes, then he wouldn't be having it at all. And the bottom line is that the politics right now, he doesn't have the votes.

LEMON: Yes. Hey, Stuart, can you hear us here, Stuart? OK. Stuart Kaplan can't hear us, so I'll ask you this question, Jack. I mean, do you think the FBI is going to be looking into whether he lied under oath?

I mean, because if you -- the things that he said about -- that he talked about in his yearbook, the terms he used in the yearbook and on the calendar and what have you, it's obvious. It's obvious that he wasn't being, you know, truthful to what those terms meant.

[22:25:06] But I'm wondering whether the FBI is going to be looking into whether he lied when he was under oath maybe about that and other things.

QUINN: Look, none of us knows that. We don't -- there have been contradictory reports about what kind of limitations may have been put on the FBI. I think it's inevitable that there will -- that things will come up which will either verify his statements here or contradict them.

And I want to be clear about something. Look, you know, I don't drink. I used to drink. I don't drink anymore. But I never drank when I was in public service. I never drank when I had a security clearance.

And importantly, I never, ever lied about it. And I think the issue here is it really is -- it's not the drinking as such. It goes to the question about whether or not he's been honest about getting into this important, critically important public service job on the basis of being truthful with the Senate, with the FBI, and with the American people.

LEMON: Yes.

QUINN: And that is an important thing for people to judge.

LEMON: Yes. Stuart, I have you back now, so I'll ask you the same question because obviously, you know, there is some discrepancy about what he said when he was under oath by the way, or when he was talking to the senators last week in front of judiciary committee. Will they be looking at whether he lied under oath?

STUART KAPLAN, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, Don, you have to understand we have to go back to the original premise with respect to what the FBI is here for. They are basically being contracted by the White House to go back out and conduct various interviews.

Generally speaking, the White House dictates the tempo of what they want as far as who to interview, how to interview. It may even provide the exact questions to be asked. And so you have to understand the FBI doesn't have a dog in this fight. And so you really aren't going to know what the White House has told or has requested of the FBI to go chase down.

If it was up to me, Don, to blow this thing wide open, I'd send a few agents back to his high school in Georgetown preparatory. I'd get a roster of his athletic teams. I'd start randomly interviewing or tracking down people that he played sports with.

You know, the locker room is a great place for the FBI to try to figure out locker room bantering, what was said, what was said. Those are the ways you're going to blow this thing, you know--

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Wouldn't that take more than a week or no?

KAPLAN: Well, let me just put it -- my sources are telling me that they have utilized and manned as many agents as necessary to get this done within a week.

The FBI has a lot of resources on this, and they're going to do it, and they're going to do it thoroughly. Keep in mind the FBI doesn't want to become the story in this. They've already been dragged through the mud with respect to their credibility and integrity. They want to get it right.

QUINN: They have a lot at stake.

LEMON: Yes. That's got to be the last word.

(CROSSTALK)

KAPLAN: Now you do--

LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it.

Next, the president going off script when asked about Judge Kavanaugh's drinking habits. Way off script.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've never had alcohol. I've just -- you know, for whatever reason. Can you imagine if I had what a mess I'd be?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00] LEMON: Brett Kavanaugh told the world that he likes beer. He really, really likes beer. The President today says he, meaning the President, never touches the stuff. In fact, he says being a teetotaler is one of his best qualities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I am not a drinker. I can honestly say I never had a beer in my life, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

TRUMP: It's one of my only good traits. I don't drink. Whenever they're looking for something that I said, I say I never had a glass of alcohol. I have never had alcohol. I have just -- you know, for whatever reason. Can you imagine if I had what a mess I would be? Would I be -- I would be the world's worst. But I never drank. I never drank, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Michael D'Antonio is an expert on all things Trump. He's a Trump biographer and the Author of the book The Truth About Trump. Before -- good evening.

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening.

LEMON: His brother, Fred, had an issue with alcohol. And so he never -- Trump vowed never to touch the stuff, right?

D'ANTONIO: It is one of the most profound incidents in Donald Trump's early life, and I think it stuck with him forever.

LEMON: Were you surprised at that?

D'ANTONIO: Not at all.

LEMON: What did he mean by I would be the worst?

D'ANTONIO: Oh, I think he imagines he'd be out of control. I actually think he's a bit phobic about alcohol, and I think he's right, that he would be worse than he is were he had -- a heavy drinker. But I think the thing that bothers him more about Kavanaugh is the nominee's hypocrisy. And Donald Trump is someone who has made being honest about who he is a virtue.

LEMON: Right.

D'ANTONIO: He insists on telling us how awful he is, and then he is awful, and we're not surprised. Kavanaugh depicted himself as a choir boy. And I think this would really bother Donald Trump even more than the drinking issue, and the drinking issue is big.

LEMON: That's what I was going to say. So you it was -- you think the President watching -- because everybody's watching.

D'ANTONIO: Yes.

LEMON: Everybody in the administration was watching him saying over and over and over again, oh, I like beer. I like beer. I like beer. You think that bothers the President?

D'ANTONIO: Oh, yes. And I also think that he was watching the histrionics. You know this was a man who was nearly hysterical as he was testifying. That's not Donald Trump either. Trump likes a strong man, you know. Mike Pence talks about Donald Trump's broad shoulders. This was not a broad shoulder performance that Kavanaugh gave us.

LEMON: And being made fun of on Saturday Night Live, you know, as someone who was sort of the sniveling like -- right?

D'ANTONIO: Yes. And that's what gets to the President about his attorney general. He doesn't like seeing Saturday Night Live. He never watches it. But he happens to be able to comment on it all the time.

LEMON: And he posted it.

D'ANTONIO: Yes. I mean it's ridiculous. He watches it every Saturday, I am sure.

LEMON: Yes.

D'ANTONIO: He's watching to see if they talk about him. And I think this impression that Kavanaugh left distressed the President enormously.

LEMON: Let's talk more because, you know, you've been -- you're his biographer. As I said, you're an expert on all things Trump. Here he is talking about his brother Fred. This is during the 2016 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:34:51] TRUMP: He knew he had a problem, and he was one of my truly great teachers, my father and my brother. I say that all the time, my brother, because of this and other things. And he would say don't ever drink, don't ever drink. And I have never had a drink. I mean I have never had a glass of alcohol.

And yet, I own the largest winery on the east coast. It's a crazy thing, but that's OK. But my brother is -- just was so instrumental in probably shaping my life because I just don't know what the outcome would have been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He speaks very highly of his brother and obviously was something that touched him, right?

D'ANTONIO: Mm-hmm.

LEMON: Here's my question. Does he, though, look down on people who may have a problem with alcohol, because for him -- this is just me thinking, it's either one or the other. Either you don't drink it or you have a problem. There's no in between.

D'ANTONIO: I think you're correct.

LEMON: So how does he feel about people who just may have a...

(CROSSTALK)

D'ANTONIO: I think he looks down on anyone who partakes. And I think it's because he doesn't know very much about alcohol. You know, his discussion of this idea of blackouts and what it means for someone to drink, he doesn't have a sophisticated understanding of it. And as a result, he dismisses it out of hand. And you're either good or bad in his book. And this is bad. This is very bad. LEMON: Yes. Michael D'Antonio, thank you for your time. I

appreciate it. The accusations against Judge Kavanaugh are adding up, but does the Senate really want to get down to the truth?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00] LEMON: A newly unearthed police report tonight shows Brett Kavanaugh was questioned by police after a bar fight while he was at Yale. Let's discuss now with Catherine Rampell, Scott Jennings, and Ryan Lizza. Hello, everyone. Ryan, can you believe we're talking about a bar fight in New Haven in 1985, after a UB40 concert? I feel like I am, you know, back in high school.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST,: I believe anything at this point, absolutely anything.

LEMON: But I mean that is a...

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: Underrated band by the way. People are mocking them on social media, but they had a few good hits.

LEMON: Yes. But I mean talk about the -- why we're talking about this because it's not because -- if it's a one-off, that's a different thing. There is an FBI investigation going on. They're going to look into everything. If this shows a pattern, it could be significant.

LIZZA: Well, I am...

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A pattern of what?

LIZZA: I am of two minds about this. But I feel like, you know, I blame Brett Kavanaugh for forcing us to discuss all of the idiotic things he did in high school and college by painting a certain picture of him. I mean it is ridiculous that all of us have to go back and talk about, you know, these ridiculous devils' triangle and all the rest, and whether it's important about whether he threw ice or not.

And unfortunately, he sort of made it an issue by painting a certain picture of him. And I think that's the only reason it matters. It truly would not matter, this incident, about throwing ice would not matter. All the other stuff wouldn't matter. But he's -- he sort of put this on the table by denying -- you know, by painting this sort of choir boy image. I think that's the only defense for getting into any of this.

LEMON: Well, Scott, you said a pattern of what, and that's whether he's honest, whether he is telling the truth under oath, especially you mentioned the devil's triangle. You mentioned all the things about boofing. You mentioned, you know -- that was all mentioned, and all you have to do is an Internet search and you know he wasn't telling the truth about any of that.

LIZZA: And I think...

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: I am not familiar with the terms.

LEMON: That's for Scott. That's for Scott.

JENNINGS: I did not have the robust high school experience that some people had. But I listened to Brett Kavanaugh's testimony very carefully. He said I like beer. He said I like beer countless times. He said...

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: Did he say that? I do not remember that line.

JENNINGS: He did too. He said...

LIZZA: I am kidding. I am kidding. He said it like 100 times.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: And then he was well, asked how many are too many. He did admit it. People are trying to forget, conveniently forget that Brett Kavanaugh admitted to liking beer and occasionally drinking too many beers. This story in the New York Times by the way, I mean we're talking about ice. We're talking about somebody throwing ice at somebody.

I mean I imagine when the Democrats find out Brett Kavanaugh has been trying to abolish ICE since 1985, they ought to come onboard. This is the biggest bunch of ridiculous bologna I have ever seen. And people in Middle America are going to look at this and say, wait a minute. Brett Kavanaugh threw ice on a guy. We're going to keep him off the Supreme Court. This is going to backfire so badly on the anti- Kavanaugh forces. It's backfiring.

LEMON: What do you think, Catherine, if you frame it that way, if you frame it as a one-off? What do you think?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the issue is not whether as a teenager or a college student he drank to excess. Plenty of students, plenty of, you know, drunken teenagers do dumb things when they're drunk. They binge drink frequently in high school and in college, and they go on to lead productive and successful lives as Kavanaugh seems to have done himself.

The issue is not whether he binge drank. The issue is whether he was either lying or misleading members of the Senate Judiciary Committee about whether it's plausible, for example, that he frequently drank to such excess that he might not remember what happened that evening, as many of his own classmates, including Republican classmates who were friends of his, said that he did.

They have come out and said, many of them that it just does not ring true. They drank with him. You know, they would not buy his version of events. Same deal with these comments that he made, you know, about seemingly very minor things like slang in a high school yearbook. Like why bother misleading the Senate Judiciary Committee about this?

This all goes to this question of not -- did he you know get stupid drunk when he was a kid, and did he say vulgar things in his yearbook, but is he credible? Is he lying to these senators? You know, this is about getting a guy on the highest court in the land, a permanent lifetime job, having lots of very important decisions in his lap.

[22:45:11] And we need to know if we can trust him when he talks not about the little things like the slang, but how he describes whether he would rule impartially on major court cases, for example, whether he thinks that Roe V. Wade is settled law. This calls into question his credibility on so many other issues, and that's what it's about.

LEMON: All right. Stand by, everyone. Scott you, you mentioned what middle America might think. Well, it meant a lot what they thought about Sarah Palin as it relates to Saturday Night Live. So it's time to talk Saturday Night Live. Matt Damon plays a really angry Brett Kavanaugh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATT DAMON, ACTOR: You justify just want to humiliate me in front of my wife and my parents and Alyssa frigging Milano.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00] LEMON: So Saturday Night Live opened its 44th season strong. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON: I am usually an optimist. I am a keg is half full kind of guy. But what I have seen from the monsters on this committee makes me want to puke, and not from beer. I am not backing down, you sons of bitches. I don't know the meaning of the word stop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever drink too many beers?

DAMON: You mean, was I cool, yeah? So am I angry, you're damn right. But if you think I am angry now, you just wait until I get on that Supreme Court because then you're all going to pay. Give me a can of water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Catherine Rampell is back, Scott Jennings, Ryan as well. What do you think? Did he nail it, Catherine?

RAMPELL: The impression, yeah. I thought he did a pretty good impression. I think it's all in the hair to be honest. The SNL wig people are like geniuses. But yes, I thought he did a very good job.

LEMON: I think he did a good job. But I actually think that Howard Stern did a better imitation of him. The voice was a little higher. Howard does a great impression of Brett Kavanaugh. Ryan, when people think about Sarah Palin, Tina Fey's famous line, I can see Russia from my house. I mean that comes to mind.

LIZZA: Yes.

LEMON: Palin never actually said that. Tina Fey did. I mean is Matt Damon's angry sniffling version of Kavanaugh similar to that?

LIZZA: Yes. The power of Saturday Night Live, and now probably more than ever, because so many Americans are glued to politics right now, all the ratings, all the numbers suggest that. And people are glued -- were glued to the Kavanaugh hearings. And yeah, these pop culture impersonations breakthrough and they come to define people. Going all the way back to Gerald Ford, remember Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford.

LEMON: And he would stumble over everything and fall down. I remember that.

LIZZA: They didn't try even put makeup on him. They even didn't even try to make him look like Gerald Ford, right? He just -- it was all physical comedy. And Gerald Ford was a famously good athlete, did not actually stumble all the time. But people still think he did because of Chevy Chase's hilarious impersonating. So yeah, these things can come to define people. Wait until they impersonate you, Don.

LEMON: I'm not looking for -- I was there by the way. I was hoping -- I was like please, don't let them do me while I am here. It's a comedy show, Scott. But SNL has a way of nailing the heart of the story. In Kavanaugh's case, accusations of binge drinking, temperament, partisan background after his testimony, I mean you could see this coming, couldn't you?

JENNINGS: You know, oh, could I see Hollywood and the, you know, liberals in this country jumping the shark, backing over and eating it?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It's filmed in Manhattan, Scott.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It's not Hollywood. It's filmed in Manhattan and they go after every single President.

JENNINGS: Whatever. I mean this is what they do -- if it's a Republican...

LEMON: Do you watch Saturday Night Live? They go after every single President.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: He needs three votes. He needs Flake, Collins, and Murkowski. And that's it. He's not a President. He's a Supreme Court Justice. He needs three votes.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: They go after public officials. It doesn't matter what they are.

JENNINGS: Matt Damon is Hollywood, by the way. I mean come on.

LEMON: It's Saturday Night Live. It's filmed in Manhattan. And, you know, come on, Scott.

RAMPELL: I am not sure this is the most relevant question for how people are going to vote, how Flake, Murkowski, and Collins are going to vote. I agree with that.

LEMON: It does sway -- it can sway public opinion, though. Go on.

RAMPELL: It can. But Kavanaugh's already very unpopular. He was unpopular even before these sexual assault allegations came out. So the country was already very polarized about this guy. I am not sure that there's going to be -- you know -- this is not going to be the make or break situation for whether he gets confirmed.

LEMON: Go ahead, Scott. Go ahead, Scott, with your Hollywood liberals. Go ahead. I am just having fun with you. Go on.

JENNINGS: You know, you know, the most important thing that happened on Saturday Night Live the most powerful man on America, Kanye West speaking truth to everybody in that audience. Now you were there. Now he spoke truth there. And you all need to leave him alone. This man can get anything out of the White House that he wants. You all need to leave Kanye alone. Leave this man alone.

LEMON: You sound like Chris Crocker when he said leave Britney alone. Listen. You had to be there to witness it in person. And I am going to talk about it in the 11:00 p.m. hour because there were a lot of uncomfortable people in the audience. Wasn't that he spoke truth, people are like, what the hell is he talking about? He didn't know what he was talking about.

But anyway, so let's -- can I get this in real quick? I want to get this reporter thing in real quick, especially now since we have you here, Catherine. This is President Trump, talking -- speaking to ABC's Cecilia Vega at a press conference today. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:55:15] TRUMP: Question, yeah. Go ahead. Sure. She's shocked that I picked her, in a state of shock. That's OK. I know you're not thinking. You never do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am sorry?

TRUMP: No, go ahead. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a tweet this weekend, Mr. President, you said that it's incorrect to say you're limiting the scope of the FBI investigation.

TRUMP: What does that have to do -- I don't mind answering the question. But, you know, I would like to do the...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has to do with the other headline in the news, which is the...

TRUMP: How about talking about trade and then we'll get to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Listen, he's not -- he does -- you know, he is no fan of the press, but this is the first time he's done this so -- been this condescending to a woman reporter. Last week, he said -- told someone to sit down. Today, I think he said do you have a question to one of our reporters. Does this make you uncomfortable?

RAMPELL: Yes, a little bit. It kind of feels like Trump and the Republicans have really doubled down on the idea of bullying women as a campaign strategy.

LEMON: Yes.

RAMPELL: You know there's already this huge gender gap. And that has been the case for many years, of course, that women have been more likely to vote for Democrats than men have been. But it is widening. And you can understand why when you have a President who sort of comes off as vaguely misogynistic or not so vaguely misogynistic.

LEMON: Thank you, all. I appreciate it. So anyway, Scott went to it first. I was torn about this story because it's a big old giant publicity stunt. And he doesn't know what he's talking about, but we're going to talk about Kanye West next.

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