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Russia's Attack on Our Democracy; Alaskans on the Kavanaugh; First Lady Visits Africa; New Polls on Kavanaugh Confirmation and Elections. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 02, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] GREG MILLER, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, "WASHINGTON POST": A leader looks like, resembles Vladimir Putin. Vladimir Putin is somebody he envies in terms of how he runs the government of Russia. He doesn't have to deal with things like a Mueller investigation or pesky reporters getting in his face that -- and causing problems for him. So I think he envies that sort of arrangement.

But, at the same time, I think that, you know, Putin does have something ultimately over Trump. We don't know yet for sure. We haven't learned from Mueller yet whether there is some kompromat that is -- that is leveraged in the relationship.

But Putin knows exactly what lengths Russia went to, to help elect Trump. And Trump's the sort of fiction that he clings to most ferociously is that there was no Russian interference in the election. Putin has that over Trump.

CAMEROTA: Everyone is waiting, of course, with what, if anything, Robert Mueller has uncovered and what he'll be able to share. What is new in here that will surprise us?

MILLER: There is a lot new. So this is building on the stories that "The Post" published that won the Pulitzer Prize last year, but it is going back over all of that ground. This is the book that takes you from the very beginning, the first hack, the entry, the Russian intelligence operatives and their hacking entry into the DNC. It carries you all the way through the Mueller investigation right into this moment. There's lots of new material about the Mueller investigation, about the sort of unraveling of Trump's legal team and lots of different fronts.

CAMEROTA: One of the things that I was interested to read in the book is that then CIA director went right before the election to try to sound the alarm about what they were already seeing with Russia trying to interrupt the election. And it was not well received by some Republican leaders in Congress, including Mitch McConnell. Here's a portion of the book. Republicans had always cast themselves of the protectors of American's security, the champions of its military and intelligence agencies, and yet McConnell seemed to see a greater threat to the election from Brennan than from Russia. Brennan erupted with anger and McConnell's accusation and their conversation turned into a shouting match. So Mitch McConnell didn't want to hear what the CIA director had to

say about Russia?

MILLER: He didn't want that to come out publically. I mean this was -- this is a scene in the book that I write about. It happens before the election, as you said. The CIA has learned that Putin is overseeing this operation. They're trying to help elect Trump. Brennan sets in motion a series of private briefings with all congressional leaders. It's really an unusual and crazy moment in our history. He's trying to get their attention. Trying to grab them by the collar.

He's meeting with McConnell. And McConnell is basically telling him, you're telling us that Russia's trying to help elect Trump? If you try to come forward with this, I'm not going to -- I'm not going to sign on to any sort of public statement that would condemn Russian interference, but I will condemn you and the Obama administration for trying to mess up this election.

CAMEROTA: So he -- they immediately saw it as political rather than the CIA doing their job as sounding alarms?

MILLER: Absolutely. And this is just one of many, many behind the scenes moments that we capture in this book.

CAMEROTA: Rod Rosenstein, as you know, is tasked with now overseeing Robert Mueller's investigation. Last week it seemed as though Rod Rosenstein didn't think he was long for the job. He was supposed to be having a meeting with President Trump on Thursday, but, of course, the Brett Kavanaugh stuff has changed that whole schedule.

Does Rod Rosenstein hang on? Does this meeting ever happen with President Trump? What is the fate of all this?

MILLER: I think, you know, it looks like he might hang on, largely because it would be politically perilous for the White House to dump Rosenstein right now. Then you look like you're simultaneously impeding two separate investigations, like, you know, keeping your heel on the Kavanaugh investigation while also removing the person who's overseeing the Mueller investigation. It might be bad for Republicans in the midterms. But it's Trump. We never know. He could be out with a tweet later this afternoon.

CAMEROTA: President Trump is, as you know, very reluctant to ever say that Russia interfered in the election. He says maybe it was Russia, maybe it was a lot of other places, but it was definitely China. He talked about that last week.

Did Russia do something different than any other country has done in the past or is trying to do?

MILLER: Absolutely. I think that Russia -- many countries engage in espionage, including our own, including the United States. We try to get information on what other candidates and what other elections are up to, where their policies might go. That's what everybody assumed Russia was up to here. When they take what they were able to steal out of the DNC, distribute it on WikiLeaks, lay it bare for the entire world to see, that was really unprecedented in an American election to be that forcefully involved in it was astounding. And that's only part of it, right? I mean the rest of it is, they're all over FaceBook. They have propaganda in front of more than 100 million FaceBook users in the United States during the 2016 race.

CAMEROTA: And they're trying to do it again, we're told.

The book again is "The Apprentice."

Greg Miller, thank you so much. Great to have you share it with us.

MILLER: Likewise. Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: Voters in the Alaskan wilderness could influence the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh. That's next.

Plus, a horse walks into a bar. And this is not a joke. Oh, my God.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:39:00] BERMAN: Judge Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court confirmation comes down to votes from a happened full of senators, including Alaska Republican Lisa Murkowski. So what do her constituents think about this?

CNN's Gary Tuchman is live in Anchorage for us this morning.

Gary, what are you hearing?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning to you.

About 15 percent of the people who live here in Alaska are indigenous. That's more than 100,000 people. Now, they have a lot of political influence here in Alaska, but what we're seeing at this moment is they have a particularly large amount of political influence in the United States when it comes to this U.S. Supreme Court vacancy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice over): Kathryn Martin is an indigenous Alaskan. A member of the Mentasta Traditional (ph) Council. And while she and about 100 other natives in this village may be far out in the Alaska wilderness, they are all in on the debate happening in Washington.

TUCHMAN (on camera): How many of you want to see Judge Brett Kavanaugh be confirmed and end up on the Supreme Court? Who doesn't? All of you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

[08:40:08] TUCHMAN (voice over): There are tens of thousands of indigenous people who live in Alaska. In past Senate elections, they have voted overwhelmingly for Lisa Murkowski, whose vote is key in determining if Brett Kavanaugh makes it to the Supreme Court. Everyone we talked to in this village strongly supporting Murkowski because she say she understands their way of life and changes.

LIZ MEDICINE CROW, FIRST ALASKANS INSTITUTE: We're experiencing rates of sexual abuse and domestic violence at higher rates than anywhere else in the country. And our senator, Lisa Murkowski, she knows that.

TUCHMAN: So there is great sympathy for Christine Blasey Ford among many in the native community and among everyone we talked to in this remote village.

ANITA ANDREWS, ALASKA NATIVE: As a survivor of sexual abuse, I think it takes years for people to come out with this. You know, some victims -- as some victims come out with it immediately. But I think some victims it takes them a while before that -- they're able to talk about it. And I think this is what happened this with lady.

HARRY JOHN, ALASKA NATIVE: I think he is against women's rights and including native rights.

TUCHMAN: And that's the other huge issue working against Kavanaugh and likely weighing on Senator Murkowski's mind, native rights. In a case that went to the U.S. Supreme Court, Kavanaugh questioned whether the constitutional protections given to Native American tribes should also be given to native Hawaiians. People here think that bodes poorly for them.

TUCHMAN (on camera): How concerned are you that Alaskan natives rights could be taken away if Brett Kavanaugh ends up on the Supreme Court.

KATHRYN MARTIN, ALASKA NATIVE: Very concerned. I mean it's our way of life.

TUCHMAN Alaskan natives consider themselves a modest people. But many of them are not particularly modest about the political influence they believe they hold, which they think Senator Lisa Murkowski needs to keep in mind.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Just last week, indigenous Alaskans were arrested while protesting outside the Washington, D.C., office of Alaska's other U.S. senator, Dan Sullivan. Nobody expects Sullivan to vote against Kavanaugh, but the message for Alaska's other senator is loud and clear.

TUCHMAN (on camera): So if Lisa Murkowski votes ultimately to confirm Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, what will your thoughts be about Lisa Murkowski.

MARTIN: She won't have my support in the future.

TUCHMAN: How do you feel about that?

ANDREWS: She won't have my full support either.

TUCHMAN: What about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn't -- I would not write her name or put a check mark by her name.

TUCHMAN: Would any of you still vote for Lisa Murkowski?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

TUCHMAN: So you're counting on her to vote no --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: On Kavanaugh?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: And would you be surprised if she did vote yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: So here in Alaska and the other 49 states, people are trying to read the tea leaves about Lisa Murkowski. How does she feel? What will she be doing when it comes to voting on Kavanaugh? Yesterday she talked to reporters on Capitol Hill. She said this quote. The FBI needs to be free to do its job as the investigative body. So that doesn't tell us much about her state of mind. What may be important about her state of mind is something that she said last week to another reporter. It didn't get a lot of attention. It was a local reporter with Alaska Public Media in Washington. And that reporter asked the senator if she ever had a Me Too moment. And the senator says, yes, I did, but she didn't elaborate. And that could prove to be significant.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Gary, what a fascinating window into the indigenous people and culture and their thinking there. Thank you very much.

All right, we have some breaking news, John.

First Lady Melania Trump is in Africa. This is her first solo international trip. The first stop is Ghana, followed by visits to Malawi, Kenya and Egypt.

And CNN's Kate Bennett is traveling with the first lady. One of very few reporters who is doing so.

She joins us live on the phone from Afri-Ghana (ph) with more.

Tell us about the trip, Kate.

KATE BENNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, it's been a jam packed day so far as soon as we touched down here in Afri-Ghana. The first lady greeted with a ceremony from the first lady of Ghana. It was really a lovely time. Then she headed to a children's hospital where she watched how babies

are taken care of here. (INAUDIBLE) vitamins. She passed out some blankets and stuffed animals. She watched a baby being weighed.

And then she traveled to the NICU part, and we weren't allowed to be there, but she talked to doctors and visited with patients and children as well.

And now we're at the palace here in Accra, where she will have tea with the first lady of Ghana and spend a little time learning more about her country, talking a bit more about her Be Best message.

Again, this is the first country. It's a pretty tight schedule. Four countries in about a week, we're seeing. And it looks like it's going to be a jam-packed trip. Lots of school visits, hospital visits, things that she does back state side in her focus on children. I think we can expect a lot of that here, as well as some cultural visits, some (INAUDIBLE) visits.

Again, it's her first big, international trip. And for first ladies, Africa is a common stop for international tours. So clearly she is following in the footsteps of other modern first ladies, like Michelle Obama and, of course, Laura Bush, who spent a lot of time here in Africa.

[08:45:14] Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: Kate, so great to have you along on the first lady's trip and bring it to us. Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Really interesting to see.

CAMEROTA: That was great. And I love seeing those pictures.

BERMAN: Yes, and we're looking forward to hearing from Kate, because she is one of the few reporters who's on this trip.

CAMEROTA: All right, so U.S. defense officials say that a Navy ship had an unsafe interaction with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea. This action comes after U.S. officials blamed the Chinese military for coming as close as 45 yards to the USS Decatur as it was conducting a freedom of navigation operation. A Chinese defense ministry spokesman says the U.S. move threatens China's sovereignty and safety. Meanwhile, a Navy spokesman says U.S. forces will continue to travel anywhere international law allows.

BERMAN: All right, you've been waiting for this.

CAMEROTA: I have.

BERMAN: A horse walks into a bar. OK, not a joke. But this is an actual news story. And by walk I mean like rampage gallops in. This is in France. This horse rampages through this bar. You can see everyone running out for safety. Turns out that this horse escaped from a stable less than a mile away.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Was it -- was it the horse cavorting? This is happy hour for this horse.

BERMAN: Well, the horse did not get served.

CAMEROTA: Oh.

BERMAN: You will note that no one served the horse. Maybe that's what caused the anxiety.

CAMEROTA: It's really scary.

BERMAN: I guess there were some broken bones. We're making light of this. I guess some of the customers did suffer some broken bones.

CAMEROTA: Oh.

BERMAN: Other than that, nothing major. And the horse was finally corralled.

CAMEROTA: OK, thank you for that, John.

All right --

BERMAN: I bring you -- I bring you galloped horses in bars.

CAMEROTA: No, you really cover all of the news.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The gamut.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for that.

President Trump not shying away from the Kavanaugh controversy as he stumps for GOP candidates. We'll tell you what he's saying and we'll get "The Bottom Line," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:06] BERMAN: The midterm elections just five short weeks away. So how will the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation process affect these races?

Let's get "The Bottom Line" with CNN's political director David Chalian.

David, a new Quinnipiac poll shows that opposition to Kavanaugh's confirmation as grown. It's jumped six points in just the last few weeks. So does that mean anything for the midterms?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it does, John. It means different things, though, I think for the battle for the House versus the battle for the Senate. And this is what's so important to understand five weeks away from Election Day. The battle for control of the House and the Senate are playing out on completely different landscapes. Why I say it matters in the House, even though they don't have a role in confirmation of a Supreme Court justice, is because all that movement you're talking about in that Quinnipiac poll, that comes from independents. And if you look at independents or white, college educated women in the suburbs, that's the House landscape. That's where a lot of the vulnerable Republicans are currently in office that are threatened about being defeated by Democrats here.

The -- so, not good for Republicans, the Kavanaugh situation in that, because those independent women, white college educated women, they've been driven away here by Kavanaugh. They were driven away by Trump and the Kavanaugh situation has solidified that.

In the battle for the Senate, that's playing out on much more Republican turf, in deep red states like North Dakota and Missouri and Indiana, Montana. And here's the thing, in those states, the Kavanaugh confirmation process, the getting him on the court, could be a shot in the arm for Republicans. In that Quinnipiac poll, 84 percent of Republicans support his confirmation. And so when you are battling out on very Republican turf, as Democrats -- Democratic incumbent senators are, getting a boost of enthusiasm for Republicans is not what you want in these final five weeks, which is what they may get from Kavanaugh getting elevated to the court if he does so.

CAMEROTA: There's also an interesting poll about women and how they're responding to Brett Kavanaugh. And so among women, 55 percent do not think that he -- the Senate should confirm Brett Kavanaugh, 37 percent say yes.

But there's a -- this new I guess talking point about right wing radio and TV that I want to bounce off of you. I hear it getting a lot of purchase. And that is that men are feeling so besieged during this Me Too movement that Brett Kavanaugh and his anger at the hearing, his defiance and him, you know, sort of yelling at the Democrats and challenging Amy Klobuchar has become an avatar for them because they feel like they've been cast at the villains in the Me Too movement.

And I'm just wondering if the thought that they are as energized because of all of this, as women are, if there's any evidence.

CHALIAN: I don't think we can say as energized. I think that was key in your question. I think the energy on the Republican side largely driven by women as a part of the resistance to Donald Trump. And, by the way, this election is about Donald Trump much more than it is about Brett Kavanaugh. But that energy is overwhelming.

I do think what you're saying, though, Alisyn, is happening out there. It is part of the getting the Republican base enlivened and awakened and enthusiastic. And part of that is this strategy and appeal to largely white men.

BERMAN: But we haven't seen -- I mean I'm interested to watch these numbers over the next few days. And the Quinnipiac poll is all we have to go on right now to an extent because the numbers for men didn't really shift on Brett Kavanaugh. In fact, they shifted less than any other numbers there. The support and opposition for him relativity the same from a few weeks ago to now. So if men are going to act on this new fear, it isn't evident, at least not yet.

CHALIAN: Yes. I -- that is true, John, there's no doubt about that.

I think if we are to see a benefit for Republicans, it's going to be if indeed Kavanaugh gets onto the court --

BERMAN: Right.

CHALIAN: That they win the battle. That may give them a little bit of a boost of enthusiasm there.

[08:55:03] CAMEROTA: David, do you agree with Jeffrey Toobin that UB- 40 was a one hit wonder?

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Because I don't, OK? What -- I mean what do you think about this?

CHALIAN: I am woefully ignorant about the UB-40 song play list.

BERMAN: Blessedly. Blessedly. Blessedly.

CAMEROTA: No, you don't know what you're missing.

BERMAN: Not woefully.

CHALIAN: So is not one hit --

CAMEROTA: There's not just "Red, Red Wine."

CHALIAN: Let me just understand, that one hit is "Red, Red Wine"?

CAMEROTA: Yes, but then there are others because they re-did "I Got You, Babe," with Chrissie Hynde.

BERMAN: I can't actually believe -- I can't actually believe you're doing this now.

CAMEROTA: Thank you -- they did, with Chrissie Hynde. And "Here I Am, Baby." How great is this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): I got you, babe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I'm not really -- I just lip-sync.

CHALIAN: That's a pretty good remake.

BERMAN: It is so not even as good as Sonny and Cher. CHALIAN: No.

BERMAN: And their version of "Red, Red Wine" is better than Neil Diamond. This isn't even a discussion, nor does it (INAUDIBLE) something --

CAMEROTA: Here I am, baby --

BERMAN: We've got such important things to talk about.

CAMEROTA: Is -- no, listen, you've got to -- you've got to play some of these today, David Chalian. And then "Where Did I Go Wrong?" It's also a great song, OK? So I'm just recommending it to you.

They're telling me I'm out of time, but I don't believe that. I'd like to talk more about UB-40.

CHALIAN: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: All right.

CHALIAN: I appreciate it that you educated me.

BERMAN: If David never comes back, I will blame you forever, OK?

CAMEROTA: Where did I go wrong, John?

BERMAN: I'm just going to say that. I'm just going to say that.

CAMEROTA: That's all I'm saying.

BERMAN: A new report just out says that President Trump personally directed the legal effort to silence Stormy Daniels. This is in direct conflict with so many of his statements and statements from the White House. We're going to have much more on this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:12] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, good morning, everyone. Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.