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Trump Attacks Ford after Calling Her a Credible Witness; Interview With Sen. Angus King. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 03, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: For you, "CNN TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:07] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a scary time for young men in America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For them to act like the victims is the reason women do not come forward.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Are you the Bart Kavanaugh he's referring to? Yes or no?

JUDGE BRETT KAVANAUGH, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: You'd have to ask him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he lied under oath, that's absolutely disqualifying. I don't believe he did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about his temperament and the way in which he conducted himself in that questioning.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: The FBI report will be finished, and we'll be voting this week.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I started with a million-dollar loan. I built a $10 billion company.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is living a giant lie. He is a con man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump has probably been audited hundreds of times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you cheat on your taxes, you're stealing from all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. President Trump mocking Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who accused

Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault when they were in high school. This was during a rally last night when they were in Mississippi, and the president went after Ford, mocking her testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Thirty-six years ago this happened. "I had one beer. Right? I had one beer."

"Well, do you think it was -- "

"No, it was one beer." Good.

"How did you get home?"

"I don't remember."

"How did you get there?"

"I don't remember."

"Where is the place?"

"I don't remember."

"How many years ago was it?"

"I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know."

"What neighborhood was it in?"

"I don't know."

"Where's the house?"

"I don't know."

"Upstairs, downstairs, where was it?"

"I don't know. But I had one beer. That's the only thing I remember."

And a man's life is in tatters. A man's life is shattered. His wife is shattered. His daughters, who are beautiful, incredible young kids. They destroy people. They want to destroy people. These are really evil people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The White House insiders had been falling all over themselves, praising the president's restraint on Christine Blasey Ford.

That wasn't restraint right there. And just a few days ago, the president called Ford's testimony credible. So what's changed?

The latest attack comes as we learn the FBI could deliver its report on Kavanaugh as early as today. We did learn overnight the FBI is interviewing more people, beyond the original four, part of its mandate. No idea what impact that might have on the timing.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is promising a vote on the Supreme Court nominee by the end of the week.

We want to bring in Joe Lockhart, former White House press secretary for President Clinton and a CNN political commentator; Linda Chavez, former White House official under President Reagan and the chair of the Center for Equal Opportunity; and Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor and a CNN legal analyst.

Laura, first to you. We've said this before. When you're dealing with victims of alleged sexual assault, it is not unusual for them to wait decades to report that assault. It is not unusual for them to have varying memories of the events surrounding the assault itself. Yet, the president overnight chose to mock Christine Blasey Ford.

Your take?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's also not unusual, in many respects, for somebody to zone in and hone in on the facts that made them have an adrenaline rush and have other things be cloudy.

Remember, Christine Blasey Ford herself talked about the idea of her memory being cloudy in other areas and had a phenomenal and scientific response about the fight or flight instinct, about the adrenaline, about her prefrontal cortex. You talk about all those things.

And the president conveniently left out things out that she did, in fact, you'll recall, the names of people who were in at the party. If you'll recall, the name of the person who has been interviewed by the FBI, P.J., or Leland, she talked about the notion of laughter in the background, about the actual room layout, the location of the bathroom, where she had to go, the upstairs location, the narrowing, the amount of time.

She talked about all those things, but it doesn't fit into the convenient narrative that says this is somehow used as a hit job against an otherwise wonderful person, according to the president of the United States. And so I think it's hard to cherry-pick aspects of her testimony, combined with the fact that he called her credible in the past and have anyone give a grain or more than a grain of salt the president's mocking last night.

CAMEROTA: Linda, one of the very first things that we heard out of the White House When Christine Blasey Ford's story came forward was Kellyanne Conway, the president's counselor, saying, "This woman will not be ignored, and she will not be insulted."

And people breathed a sigh of relief that there would be a different tack taken and tone, and last night that seems to be thrown out the window. What do you think when you hear President Trump mocking Christine Blasey Ford?

LINDA CHAVEZ, CHAIR, CENTER FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITY: I think Kavanaugh's chances of being confirmed are lower today than they were yesterday as a result of President Trump. Because I think there's really an audience of three that the president has to convince. And that is the three senators who are wavering, and they are going to decide whether or not the nomination moves forward or it's not.

[07:05:09] And I think the president's tone last night was disgusting. I have questions about Dr. Ford's testimony, and I've raised them before, but you don't mock her. You don't make fun of her. You treat her with respect, and frankly, this is going to, I think, make it more difficult for the FBI's investigation to have the weight that it should have.

I am somebody who supports Brett Kavanaugh. I'm somebody who's hoping that the FBI investigation is going to not produce evidence that corroborates her story, because I would like to see him on this Supreme Court, but the president did everybody a disservice last night.

BERMAN: I just want to stay on this, if I can, for one more second with you, Linda, because I guess I wasn't expecting that, necessarily. You support Brett Kavanaugh. If you were Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski, you would vote "yes" today. I know you would wait to see what the FBI is saying. Yet, you think the president hurt his chances?

CHAVEZ: I do. I do. Well, first of all, I mean, this is -- this is the tribal politics that we've seen for the last year and a half. This is President Trump trying to invigorate his base. He's hoping that he's going to rile people up so that they come out and vote in November. Well, you know, it could also end up making it more difficult, I think, for Brett Kavanaugh to be confirmed because of the way the president acted.

CAMEROTA: You know, one of the curious things is that everybody, at least the Republicans at the time after Christine Blasey Ford testified, said we have no doubt that something happened to her. We believe her. She's credible. She was a credible witness. She seemed authentic. We have no doubt that something happened to her, but we just don't think that it was necessarily Brett Kavanaugh.

And so if you -- if you take them at their word, then the president was going after a sexual assault victim, not an alleged sexual assault victim but a sexual assault victim.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Linda just said it perfectly. She has made Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski's job much harder, they want to get to a "yes," which I think they both do. I think they agree with Brett Kavanaugh on a wide variety of issues and conservative principles, all of that.

But the president has made it much harder. And, you know, this is part of his routine, though. You know, there's two things that were interesting yesterday. You saw

the beginnings of Trump doing what he does when he wants to cut someone loose. He said on the record that, if he lied to the committee, it was over. Didn't have to say that. And then he said, "I barely know the guy. I just met him two or three weeks ago."

CAMEROTA: That is code.

LOCKHART: So that's -- that's part of it. And the, you know, the Trump psyche or psychosis, you know, take your pick.

The other is his reaction yesterday at the rally was directly related to "The New York Times" story that really --

CAMEROTA: About his taxes.

LOCKHART: About his taxes, about, you know, exploding the myth of a self-made man, you know, and when he gets furious, he has to lash out. And he lashed out at a sexual assault victim.

And again, as Linda said, it makes it really hard for these two women senators to now -- because he's sort of drawn the battle lines in a way that is -- creates a disadvantage. And the Republican leadership has been working overtime to try to appeal to women. That's why all of this -- that's why they said she's credible. And he's undermined all of that.

BERMAN: I will say that, overnight, The Republican leadership is also doing things to question Christine Blasey Ford's credibility. Chuck Grassley wrote a letter to the lawyers for Ford, pointing out that some of her testimony, they believe, wasn't truthful. Has to do with lie detectors tests, polygraph. She testified she had never discussed how to take a polygraph test. They have a witness who says in the '90s, apparently, she did.

There were other developments overnight in this investigation, as well, Laura, a letter that Brett Kavanaugh wrote when he was a student growing up outside Washington, D.C., about Beach Week. This is something that didn't exist in Massachusetts. Apparently, it existed in New Jersey.

CAMEROTA: Every week was Beach Week in New Jersey, all right?

BERMAN: So let's put this letter up so we can see what it says here. This is a letter that Brett Kavanaugh wrote to his friends about the house they were renting or the condo they were renting.

"I think we are unanimous that any girls we can beg to stay, they are welcomed with open" -- dot, dot, dot. "The danger of the eviction is great, and that would suck because of the money and because this week has big potential (interpret as you wish)." He signs it "F-F-F-F-F Bart." He also noted in this letter that "we," his friends, "We're loud, obnoxious drunks."

CAMEROTA: And prolific pukers. Why did you leave that part out? BERMAN: It just wasn't up on the screen. It wasn't -- it wasn't

because I wasn't struck by that notion either. So Laura, what is the significance of this letter. In the case for or against Brett Kavanaugh, what does this letter, if anything, mean?

COATES: Well, first of all, we didn't have Beach Week in Minnesota growing up either, so don't feel bad, John, about that.

[07:10:03] CAMEROTA: Or a beach.

COATES: Or a beach. We had lakes. That was about it.

But the other issue is remember, who is the person who had an alias in the book written by Mark Judge? A man named Bart O'Kavanaugh, where Brett Kavanaugh, the judge, was asked questions about whether or not he believes he was the person described in the book that talks about this nefarious drinking. Well, he dodged that particular question and tried to allude to, "Please ask Mark Judge." Along with even his own physical history and history of substance abuse.

Then you have the idea of the F-F-F-F-F, which, of course, he said was about stuttering of a friend. But you could look at either -- I don't know -- urban dictionary or your own wherewithal, or even look at his past yearbook, and it almost corroborates exactly that this person, Brett Kavanaugh, is having his -- this letter corroborates the yearbook that he used the terminology that often refers to women and sexual conquests of them. It refers to sexual acts, as well.

So you've got this pattern evolving again that says that the statements he's given during the FOX News interview, during his testimony on the Hill, has belied his perhaps true nature at that particular time.

Now, there is, of course, a reluctance to try to rake somebody over the coals for everything they said as a youth, as aa youthful indiscretion, perhaps. But what it tells the larger picture, as I'm looking at this, is you were supposed to give truthful, comprehensive testimony, one that you would require anyone else to give you in your own courtroom, Judge Kavanaugh.

And you've skirted the issues. You'v been more semantics-based than nuance. And frankly, perhaps you've even thumbed your nose at being forthcoming.

So all of this goes to say that what's on trial here is no longer simply an act of sexual assault, if it could ever be simply. But it's also the drinking.

But more importantly, it's his credibility before the Judiciary Committee. If you lie about very minor things, in a court of law the jury would be able to say, "I can now decide that you lied about bigger issues. This is the court of public opinion. But the same rules would apply for those judicial members -- Judiciary members.

CAMEROTA: Linda, Senator Jeff Flake has just spoken out about this, and it seems to echo some of your feelings. Here he is this morning. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: To discuss something this sensitive at a political rally is just -- it's just not right. It's just not right, and I wish he hadn't have done it. I'd just -- I'd say it's kind of appalling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Linda, when you say that it makes the job of the senators who are still on the fence, it makes their decision that much harder, take us in the minds of what you think the calculous is for Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski and Jeff Flake there. What are they -- given what happened last night, where the president mocked Christine Blasey Ford, now what are they thinking?

CHAVEZ: Well, I think it's difficult. Because there are some of us. I don't put Senator Murkowski or Senator Collins in this, but I certainly put Jeff Flake in this group, and I am certainly a charter member of the never Trumpers.

We don't like President Trump. We may approve of some of his policies. We may have liked his nomination of Brett Kavanaugh, but he has a way of basically turning to dreck everything that he touches.

And you know, I don't know what his -- his point was in bringing this up last night. And frankly, I think Joe may be on to something. I may -- it may much something to do more with that "New York Times" story about his -- essentially, his whole family cheating on their taxes over the years than it did with the nomination.

But I think it just makes it more difficult for Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski to go back home and get women to support them because of the way the president acts.

BERMAN: Joe, we're running out of time here, but quickly. You've watched Murkowski and Collins and Flake, to an extent, for years. Do you really think this -- you hear what they say, but do you really think it will change their votes?

LOCKHART: You know, I think let's take Susan Collins. If she votes against Kavanaugh, she will get primaried on her right. What I know about Maine politics, she'll probably lose. So she knows her seat's at stake.

So it becomes a question about whether her seat is more important than her principles. That's a hard decision for a politician.

CAMEROTA: OK. Linda, Joe, Laura, thank you all very much for the great conversation.

Well, it could come as soon as today. What do senators want to see when the FBI releases its final report on Brett Kavanaugh? We ask independent senator, Angus King, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:18:56] CAMEROTA: Moments ago one of the senators on the fence about Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court nomination, Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, spoke out about President Trump attacking one of Kavanaugh's accusers during a rally last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAKE: To discuss something this sensitive at a political rally is just -- it's just not right. It's just not right. I wish he hadn't have done it. I just -- and say it's kind of appalling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Senator Angus King, an independent from Maine.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Thank you, Alisyn. Good to see you.

CAMEROTA: Good to see you, as well.

Did you hear what President Trump said in mocking Christine Blasey Ford last night at the rally?

KING: Yes, I watched it two or three times. It made me feel sort of sick. I don't understand why he felt he had to do that.

Ironically, last week he characterized her testimony as -- I think he used compelling or credible or something like that. And to turn around and turn her powerful testimony into, you know, a political rally punchline, I don't know what to say. I mean, I think Jeff Flake, appalling is an appropriate adjective.

[07:20:10] CAMEROTA: Do you think that President Trump's behavior and words make it harder for the Jeff Flakes and Susan Collinses and Lisa Murkowskis of the world to make a decision by Friday?

KING: I think they do. I think that was a -- if he was trying to == I mean, everybody's essentially talking about an audience of three here, and I don't think that was a way that we could be calculated to win over those three votes.

Because clearly, I mean, I sat and watched, as millions of Americans did. And Dr. Ford, I found, was compelling and -- and totally credible. She answered every question, and we don't -- now we don't yet have the FBI report. We don't know what there is in the way of either explication or -- or confirmation of her version of events.

But for the president last night, again, to use this as an applause line and a political speech, and even to mischaracterize it. I mean, talk about she can't remember where the house was, you know, and all the mocking, "Oh, she can't remember."

What she did remember was being pushed into a room, pushed onto a bed, someone on top of her, trying to take her clothes off, putting his hand over her mouth. And she also, as you know, vividly remembered these two guys, these young guys being drunk and laughing at her.

Now, the president didn't mention that that's what she remembered. But I happened to meet with a sexual assault survivor from Maine the night before that testimony, and the emotion and the nature of her report was remarkably similar. She didn't -- her attack happened in a car. She didn't remember what kind of car it was, exactly where it was parked, but -- but she knew what happened to her, and it happened a long time ago. But she remembered it vividly.

And I talked to other women that have been through these experiences. And they have a vivid, clear memory of what happened. And to mock her last night like -- like the president did, just -- it's just -- he -- he's dividing us into tribes.

And last night was the most basic tribe of all: men and women. He's trying to set us against each other. And, you know, let's try to get to the bottom of the facts, but what he did last night doesn't contribute to that pursuit at all.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that Friday is enough time for the FBI to get to the bottom of the facts?

KING: Well, I don't know. And I think that's going to be the big question, is -- is the report that we're going to get thorough? Did they follow the leads? Did they examine Brett Kavanaugh's calendar, for example, and try to track down Mark Judge's when he worked at the Safeway? Dr. Ford said he was there several weeks after the alleged attack.

I think it's very hard to say. I think this -- I think in some ways, this vote may hinge upon the credibility of what the FBI did. I don't think there's much question that last weekend, though, the White House -- and ironically, I'm not sure it was the president. The president tweeted Saturday night, I want this, you know, unfettered investigation.

My understanding is officials in the White House, principally Don McGahn, the counsel, was restricting the -- the investigation. I think Susan Collins and others persuaded them to open it up and make it a real investigation. But we're not going to know that until we see -- see what they produce on Friday.

But I think it's -- it's going to be important. Or it may be a wash. It may show no particular evidence one way or the other.

But my first question is going to be was it a real investigation? Did they follow leads? How many people did they talk to?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: And I think that's the big question.

CAMEROTA: Should it be made public?

KING: Well, I think at least parts of it should. If there's something that is compromising information about a private citizen that has really nothing to do with this, or if a name is involved, you can always redact those things.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: But I think if -- if senators are going to be making their decision based upon this information, I think the public should know what it is that senators have seen and have learned.

CAMEROTA: So let's talk about Senator Susan Collins, your colleague from Maine, of course. Have you spoken to her about this?

KING: I have. I've spoken to her several times, and I know Susan Collins very well. She really works issues. She does her homework. She talks to people. She has talked to Brett Kavanaugh twice. I tried to, by the way, several times, I think two or three times we requested a meeting from the White House. It never happened.

CAMEROTA: Why was that?

KING: I don't know. I don't have an answer. But I just never had the meeting, and I was waiting to have that meeting. But ultimately -- I wanted -- I should have said this right at the beginning. I decided to vote against Brett Kavanaugh before any of the sexual assault allegations before last week's hearing --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

[07:25:14] KING: -- based upon my view of what kind of judge he will make, I don't think he's the right guy for the Supreme Court. I won't bore you with my --

CAMEROTA: No, I remember, and we talked to you about that. And you laid out why you didn't think that he was the right person, even before, I think, all of this.

KING: That's correct.

CAMEROTA: But do you have an idea of the way Susan Collins is leaning?

KING: No, I think she's going to do -- I mean, this is a very hard decision, and I think she realizes that. And I've been in touch with her over the last couple of weeks.

And I don't try to lobby her. I think she has to make her own decision. She knows, as I do, that this is a -- this is a career- defining decision. This is a 30-year decision, and what he does on the Supreme Court, we're all going to have to live with, if, indeed, he is confirmed.

So all I can tell you is I have the deepest respect for Susan Collins and the manner in which she goes about making decisions like this, and I don't know -- I don't know which way she's leaning, but I don't think the president helped her last night.

CAMEROTA: Can you characterize what Mainers want you to do? Do you know how your state is leaning on this? KING: Well, it's hard to characterize. I can tell you the mail and

e-mails into my office were overwhelmingly on the "no" side, although in the last week or so, there have been more positive, when I say overwhelmingly, I mean over 90 percent. I don't think that's an accurate poll. Probably if there was a poll I'd say 60-40 against.

I was over -- I was up in Maine last weekend, as I am every weekend. The vast majority of the people that came up to me said, "Thank you for your 'no' vote. You're doing the right thing." I had four or five people say, "No, we want you to vote 'yes.'"

I did notice something interesting, Alisyn. There was an age breakdown. All of the people that urged me to vote "yes" were, I'd say, 55 and older. And all of the young people, literally all of the young people that I talked to from age 20 on were on the "no" side.

I haven't seen any polls on that, but it struck me quite directly as I was talking to people. I got no people saying "vote yes" who were younger people. Now, I'm sure they're out there. I just didn't happen to run into them.

CAMEROTA: That is interesting. Look, your -- your one-man polling service is interesting, because maybe this is a generational divide. Maybe this #MeToo moment is generational, and I mean, I think that we've seen other evidence of that. I think it's interesting to hear what you're encountering in Maine.

Very quickly, have you seen the exhaustive "New York Times" piece, investigative piece on President Trump's wealth and that, in fact, he was not just given a $1 million loan from his father to start his empire. He was given $413 million from the time he was about two years old to begin his empire.

And what it shows is that the Trumps, in many ways, defrauded the government by not paying enough taxes on their wealth and sort of hiding it in various ways.

Have you seen it, and is there anything Congress can do about this?

KING: Well, you used the right term, as seen. I have seen it. I haven't read it or digested it. As you know, it's -- it's exhaustive. It's an extraordinary piece of journalism that I think, I understand, took over a year to compile. It certainly raises serious questions.

Ironically, in my case -- and I'm not a student of Donald Trump and, you know, knew him from watching him on TV and seeing his name on buildings.

I always assumed that he had a great deal of his fortune came from his father one way or another. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with transferring money from one generation to the other. I think the question in this case was was it done in such a way to evade taxes? And I'm going to leave to the authorities, the IRS, the tax lawyers, the tax authorities in New York to make those kinds of judgments, but it's a -- it's a very -- it's a very powerful, very powerful piece. And by the way, Alisyn, this isn't going to hurt Donald Trump. I --

he has developed a persona where his supporters -- if he gets attacked by "The New York Times," his -- his approval rating among his supporters will actually go up.

The truest thing he said in the campaign in 2016 was, "If I shoot someone on Fifth Avenue in broad daylight, I won't lose any votes." And I think this is another case where, ironically, a -- an expose of this kind, even assuming it's entirely valid, I don't think will significantly undermine his support. It might actually help him.

CAMEROTA: Senator Angus King, we always appreciate you coming on NEW DAY. Thank you.

KING: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: Just two quick things I want to make, points I want to make about the Kavanaugh situation from Angus King. No. 1, and people who watch him on our show a lot, he's not a bomb thrower. Senator King is not a bomb thrower. He was really upset about what the president said at that rally last night.

CAMEROTA: As is Jeff Flake, as if Linda Chavez.