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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Stunning New Info About Dad`s Alleged Affair; Dad Having An Affair While Wife Away With the Kids; Accused Killer Set To talk To Victim`s Family. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired October 03, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for watching.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN WATTS, HUSBAND OF SHANANN WATTS, SUSPECT: Somebody at work. You see that maybe this relationship has more potential than the relationship I

have with my partner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new bombshell tonight about the scandal before the murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she suspect he might have been cheating?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was speculation, but she didn`t want to believe that either.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something else Chris might have wanted to keep secret.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that it came to her mind that possibly he could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, you know, he has no

game.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Confirmation tonight, Shanann had suspected Chris of cheating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn`t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn`t touching or hugging her or doing stuff like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, just how long had she been suspicious?

SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: He stuck around because he was the one for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What exactly was Chris up to? While the girls were off on vacation.

S. WATTS: Six weeks we`re going to be in North Carolina. One day Chris could travel along with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that why Shanann seemed to cut her husband from her Facebook feed?

S. WATTS: I`ll come over? Weirdo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Until the night she came home to her death.

WATTS: We had an emotional conversation, but I`ll leave it at that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or was she trying to send a message to a mistress?

S. WATTS: He is the best thing that is ever happened to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And does his alleged affair explain why Chris would have killed them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You always want to look closest to the person who they have the closest relationships with when you see a crime like this, which

is a crime probably of passion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Perhaps the autopsies will have all the answers. They`re now complete. And in the hands of the lawyers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield this is "Crime and Justice," tonight we are probing

into the Watts family and it is getting a little less private. The source close to the investigation confirming to us a scandalous exclusive new

detail that Shanann Watts suspected that Chris was indeed cheating weeks before she wound up dead. Buried in a shallow grave by the oil tanks where

their daughter`s bodies were dumped.

Tonight, we know the autopsies have been completed. And that both sets of lawyers have the details. And we don`t know when we will be able to see

these results, and what we do have tonight are the sad new intimate details about the Watts` fraying relationship. Details that put every moment of

this summer under the microscope. Because the Watts family had seemed picture perfect. And Chris Watts seemed like the perfect husband who

Shanann Watts could not stop gushing about on Facebook.

But Chris didn`t seem to be the star of the show this summer. When Shanann took the girls across the country. Leaving her husband Chris in an empty

home for over a month and a half. And leaving the rest of us to question now. What exactly was he up to in that empty home? The empty home he

would later complain about when he told the world his family was simply missing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: This house is not complete without anybody here. I was hoping that I would get just ran over by the kids running in the door, just barrel

rushing me. But it didn`t happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This house is not complete, he says without the kids. It`s lonely effectively, he was telling us.

Just weeks before that, he had been alone for five weeks in that house. How different could it really have been? Joining me now, crime journalist,

Pat Lalama. Pat, I suppose it is really maybe no surprise, or at least no major surprise that in fact Shanann felt like Chris wasn`t being himself,

that the family confirms to us that Chris wasn`t being himself in the weeks leading up to these murders.

PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: You know, Ashleigh, I have believed from the beginning that something was wrong, that there were

fractures in this marriage, and we see all the video, and I love him so much, and he stuck with me, and I`m ill, and we have such good friends.

And everything just honky dory. I never felt that was the case, I`ve always felt that she almost over saturated media with these happy photos,

because deep inside she was so hoping for that to be the case, but I never believed it was, not for a minute.

BANFIELD: The family also confirmed to us, Pat, that they suspect that this affair between Chris and the co-worker that is alleged in his -- as

police say his confession, and we have sources that have told us that this woman at work. And they say a woman is cooperating with the investigators,

the family suspects this actually had been going on for six to 10 months.

[18:05:17] LALAMA: Well, that is very likely, but again I don`t think that is the issue, I don`t think you wipe out, desecrate your entire family

because of an affair. I think that a psychologist or psychiatrist could probably speak to this more deeply, but he wanted to be unencumbered, plain

and simple, and didn`t want any -- this is alleged, it`s all perception on my part. I don`t know anything for sure. But I am telling you, this was

not a happy marriage, and she knew it, and I think she was pleading in a way, saying, oh, it`s good, it`s good, it`s really good, see all these

pictures, see all this video, but it wasn`t. I think she was trying to hide that. I think she was trying to convince herself that it was better

than it was.

BANFIELD: So, Jeff Gardere, is that clinical and forensic psychologist that you are referring to. He happen to be seated right beside me, and one

of the best in the business. I`ll tell you, Jeff, Doc? Something else that the family confirmed to me and that is that she had never gone on this

summer vacation to see the family before, the in-laws for more than three weeks. She had never been apart from Chris with those children away from

him for more than three weeks. This summer, five. Five and he came for the sixth. Does that speak volumes to you?

JEFF GARDERE PH.D., CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: It really does. And I see it as almost an escape into wellness. In other words, she had to

be away from that scene, from that husband, from the negative vibes that she had, suspecting that something was going on. It`s almost giving

yourself a self-imposed separation, so you can figure out what it is that you need to do. And it`s also a test to see, what would he do? What would

happen when I come home? Will it be better? And I wouldn`t be surprised if perhaps she had given him an ultimatum and told him. Whatever you`re

doing, work it out, when I come back, I want to see things better.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you something, in this new day and age. Since you and I began covering cases, and a lot of things have changed, like ring.com

and doorbell cams, cams that monitor your interior of your house. A lot of our conversations many years ago wouldn`t have included that. But the

psychology of her leaving him in that house all by himself, if she had these suspicions that he was having an affair. I guess maybe they`re

(inaudible) someone by the idea that she could keep an eye on that house at all times.

GARDERE PH.D.: And it is almost a test that she is putting him through. She may not have even told him, if there was something there, some sort of

device, or that she would be looking at these things, perhaps she never did it before. But would probably do it now upon her return, or monitoring

what was going on.

So again, I think it was a situation of where she suspected something was going on, she wanted things to change, and Pat is absolutely correct, I

think she was hoping against hope with all of these positive thoughts and images, mind over matter, can I make this right? Can I change this person?

It`s hard to change a psychopath.

BANFIELD: We wondered. You know, we have continuously wondered, without any confirmation from the police and the attorneys in the case aren`t

talking to us either. And certainly the D.A. is not talking. We wonder if she may be found out and it led to an explosive confrontation the night she

died. We wonder if she knew anything at any point. And now hearing this confirmation from, you know, from the family that she had her suspicion for

weeks that there was an affair going on. The family is not the only entity in this equation either that had suspicions or at least suggested that she

had suspicions. Nichole Atkinson, one of her dear friend, in fact, the friend that came to check on her on Monday morning. As she was supposed to

be at a doctor`s appointment and wasn`t answering her phone. She said this to ABC Nightline. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE ATKINSON, FRIEND OF SHANANN WATTS: He wasn`t being the loving Chris that he normally was, he wasn`t touching or hugging or doing stuff like

that, and he wasn`t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he suspect she might have been cheating?

ATKINSON: There was speculation, but she didn`t want to believe that either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Nicole Atkinson wasn`t the only person that she had confided in either. It turns out that those poor unsuspecting husband and wife

couple who took Chris Watts in on Tuesday night after his family went missing, the Thayer`s, Amanda and Nick Thayer, they also had something to

say about that, have a listen to this.

AMANDA THAYER, FAMILY FRIEND: He said it came to her mind that possibly he could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, you know, he has no

game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: She may have said he has no game, but there`s so much more to this, and coming up in just a little bit we`re going to explore some of the

final posts which we also now exclusively know. She sent from the airport before she was headed back to her death.

[18:10:10] I mean, there`s really no other way to put it, she was coming back from that work trip. And she was posting about her kids and Chris.

And now in retrospect, knowing what we know now, it is very curious indeed, we are going to explore that in a moment. First though I want to go to an

issue that is happening tomorrow. We discovered yesterday in some court filings, that there is a phone call planned tomorrow morning, 9:30 I

believe local time in Colorado. And it is a conference call regarding probate.

That would be one of the most boring stories that would never see the light of day in a headline, unless, of course, it is Shanann Watts probate, her

family is supposed to be on the line, they`re attorneys are supposed to be on the line, and Chris Watts could be on the line. Jeff Gardere, I`m

trying to put myself in their shoes. And the families shoes. Gearing up, for what could be their first confrontation with the man who is accused of

killing their daughter, their sister, and their little nieces. To know that he could be on the phone listening silently or an active participant.

I mean, how would you even begin to help him get through this?

GARDERE PH.D.: I think more than anything right now, they`re praying. But I think you have to give them strategy, and strategy is empowerment,

Ashleigh, and so you tell them, try to control your anger, try to control your emotions, because you want to get this -- through this as smoothly as

possible. Get as much information as possible, but more than anything else, you want to make sure not to betray your emotions in front of this

person that you believe killed your family in this way, because that would be giving him a satisfaction that he does not deserve.

BANFIELD: R.J. Manuelian, I am bringing you in, he is a defense attorney. He is based on Los Angeles. He is with me now live as well. And R.J. I

think maybe you might be best to weigh-in on what do you do on either side of this conflict? How do you council Chris Watts if he is going to be on

this phone call. How do you council this grieving family, they are more than likely to be on this phone call, they requested the emergency hearing

to deal with all of the things left behind. Shanann had no will, and they`ve called this pressing, time sensitive issues, how do you council

these parties on a call like this?

R.J. MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you have to prep your client properly, you have to tell them that you have to be sensitive toward the

family, because they have lost their daughter and they`re devastated, but more importantly, what you want to do is make sure that he doesn`t say

anything that could actually be used against him. They`re going to record these phone calls, if he says something incriminatory, meaning that if he

says something that goes against his interests, that will absolutely be used against him in a court of law.

BANFIELD: R.J. let me ask you something, typically purposing into this country are public, because this is a democracy, this is a civil matter,

it`s not criminal, the D.A. has nothing to do with it, but it`s a phone call, so are we privy to what happens in this phone call?

MANUELIAN: Typically, public proceedings are things that the public would go see. This may not be public, and the judge could put an order to allow

only certain parties to listen to the conversation, depending on whether they think it`s going to harm the criminal case or harm the civil case, so

they may put parameters on who may be able to listen to this calls.

BANFIELD: Specifically this will be recorded. Not just because most calls out of a jail are recorded anyway, whether it`s a hearing or a chat with

your mom, but also because it`s public record. They have to have this on record, it has to be recorded.

MANUELIAN: Yes. They have to be recorded, Ashleigh, because all the parties are allowed to get transcripts, and they`re allowed to have

everything transcribed to take a look at it. It could be former testimony, and it could be used against either of the parties in the criminal matter

or the civil matter.

BANFIELD: All right hold that though for a moment. God give that family strength tomorrow on that phone call, we will do our best to try to dig

into the record on this. It is very hard to get reporting on this case. I can`t imagine that the civil matter will be any easier, and I certainly can

tell you that I don`t think we`ll have cameras on the phone lines to find out what`s said during this proceeding tomorrow, but you can imagine if you

were a fly on the line. What the mood would be like between that connection, that family and that man.

And while we continue to analyze this crime and the Watts family from Shanann`s vast digital footprint as well. We have come across this photo,

look closely, this is a picture of Shanann, and it is just days before her death. She is happy, she is jovial. It would seem she is without

something we know she is had with her all the time, though. And if you look closely, you will see the clue that I`m referring to, something is

missing in this photo, but would it be missing 48 hours later when she was almost about to die? That is next.

[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: I stuck around because he was the one for me.

A. THAYER: He could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, he has no game.

S. WATTS: I can`t tell you how wonderful he is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A male claim that he had an affair with Chris Watts.

S. WATTS: He knew me at my worst, and he accepted me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Another exclusive bombshell tonight, it is the kind of bombshell you would really prefer not to see it in the headlines, especially if

you`re the attorney representing Chris Watts. Because you know what it means to a lot of people, it means motive. And motive is important to a

jury, even though the lawyers don`t have to prove it.

All the while, as the wrangling over why this happened and who did it, goes on and on in the case. We have obtained a photo and it is a photo that, I

think you can only say is sad. It is a photo of Shanann enjoying some drinks with co-workers. And quite possibly, it is the last public photo of

her, where she is completely unaware that this happy hour would be one of her last hours alive. In a strange and spooky twist to this story. Chris

made a surprise appearance in what could be one of Shanann`s her last known Facebook posts as well. When she checked in on the Phoenix airport on her

way home to Denver Colorado saying, how excited she was.

How excited she was to be getting home to Chris and the kids. She is in the airport, the flight is delayed, and she is posting on Facebook that she

is excited to be getting back to Chris and the kids. She even posted the map. The map from airport to airport, there you have it, August 12, 11:09

p.m. in Phoenix, Arizona, wrapping up her trip, late in the airport, ready to be home with Chris and the girls, and the map behind it shows she is

headed for Denver airport and the drive to her home. Little did she know that within hours of this post, she and those girls would be dead?

Joining me now again, Jeff Gardere, clinical and forensic psychologist. Jeff, I can`t make sense of this. I cannot make sense of what we just

reported 22 minutes ago, the family saying she had her suspiciousness, he was cheating for weeks. The family thinks he may have been cheating for

somewhere between six and 10 months. And yet, hours before she is about to die. She posts, I can`t wait to get home to Chris and the girls.

GARDERE PH.D.: I think a couple of things going on here. One is, it is not just the black and white situation, and you suspect someone of

cheating. You are angry all the time. She really loved this man, she was really dependent on this individual. And therefore she missed him and

wanted to see him. That is one possibility.

The second one, which is really interesting, what if it was a message, what if it was letting whomever know that might have been involved with Chris

that she was heading home. Ashleigh, I work with patients where a husband suspected his wife was cheating, instead of going to the home directly and

surprising whomever may be there, he called first, because he wanted to avoid the scene, he wanted to make sure that nothing untoward would happen.

He wasn`t ready psychologically for what he may have encountered. And so that is the possibility too. A message being sent.

BANFIELD: Is it possible as well that the message was a little more direct than that. A direct message to the mistress. Bugger off, we`re happy, get

lost?

GARDERE PH.D.: Absolutely. And I think that perfectly follows what my thought is about this, that it is a very clear message. Whether it was

sent consciously or unconsciously. This is a woman who wants to protect her husband, protect her family, and protect a way of life.

BANFIELD: Can I just add to this mix, because there`s so many facts in this story, that sometimes things get dropped or lost? She is pregnant.

GARDERE PH.D.: Yes.

BANFIELD: She is 15 weeks pregnant. The dynamic is entirely different than if she weren`t pregnant. Yes, there are two children, but she is

pregnant.

GARDERE PH.D.: And she needs to nest, she needs to be in an environment where she in the past has felt safe and may be willing to maybe look the

other way or clear out the house before she gets there so that there isn`t anything that in any way may affect that pregnancy. She wants to be happy,

she wants to be home. This is what I suspect, but there are all these other feelings going on but --

[18:25:00] BANFIELD: She may be suggesting to him, I need you and I love you.

GARDERE PH.D.: That is right. And I`ve given you another chance for our babies, for this baby I am carrying.

BANFIELD: There are so many questions and our Facebook viewers are amazing about this. They constantly asked about the third baby, and was it plan?

Was this a motive, was it an accident, was does Shanann trying to save the relationship. I can tell you this. We know from the Thayer`s that they

have actually discussed having another baby and maybe being pregnant together and having their children be best friends, so it is not as though

this was an accident, even the oops I did it again joke, with the announce on the t-shirt. But the baby issue, if Chris was involved with this woman

as the family has told us. Again, it is exclusive tonight, that they think maybe six to 10 months. Why? Why get pregnant? Why add that complication

to an already complicated and emotional situational in a family.

GARDERE PH.D.: For her that might be an anchor to get him to change, to now be the father he should be. To be the husband that he should be. For

him, it may be a situation where he is not looking at consequences. This is what we find with people who may be psychopaths. They`re living day to

day, so for him, it didn`t make a difference perhaps if another baby was there, because whatever he had planned on doing, or thought about doing, it

was going to happen anyway.

BANFIELD: Yes. A little later, I`m going to play a little moment from Shanann`s Facebook that will tell you a lot about what Chris felt about the

baby and how they came to that decision. That is coming up a little bit.

I just want to show you really quickly how Shanann`s Facebook video diminished, because she was so prolific on Facebook. February she posted

21 videos, fall down in March, but look at April, 18 videos, May 18 videos, June, 14 videos, July five. August zero. Does that tell you this is

someone who -- no matter what she is posting, and even if she is trying to put on a brave face, it is hard to do it?

GARDERE PH.D.: Absolutely. Pat talked about this earlier. That she is doing everything within her power to paint a pretty picture to what is

going on. That is a lot of videos, especially for someone who is pregnant at this point. And then you then diminished as you pointed out and the

reason that is happening is because of the ambivalence, because of the anger, because of the disappointment, that reality is setting in that all

is not well in Disneyland this home that she calls.

BANFIELD: Yes. By the way, I look at this video that we`re watching right now, so many different ways when I first thought, there`s Chris playing

with the girls. Everything seems to be normal. Now I look at it like he is got his back turned to Shanann, even though he is talking to them and

referring to the girls and saying hello and he never turns around and says hi. Yes, I`m here. Most of us typically do, when we know there is camera

rolling or pointed, just looks so troubling. I think this is actually from May, this is one of her last very long Facebook live posts. 38 minutes or

so where she gushes about him, gushes about how lucky she is to be with him. How lucky they to have this father and how he changed her life, and

he is her everything.

GARDERE PH.D.: It just seems that he is just observing, and something is keeping him. And it is keeping him being totally involved in this

beautiful family moment.

BANFIELD: Pat Lalama, as a crime journalist, I thought of you immediately, when a Facebook viewer asked this question. And it -- this is one clever

Facebook viewer, let me tell you. Diana says, watching the show tonight, although I hope she was wearing her watch, but her last picture taken in

Arizona, I notice she isn`t wearing it. That photograph we just put up of that really one of the last known photographs of her at a gathering on

Friday night, when she just got to Arizona for this work retreat. Look at her wrist, she doesn`t have the watch on Friday night. But she is in

Arizona for Saturday. With the retreat, she is in Arizona for Sunday with the retreat and she goes to the airport Sunday night and flies home to her

death. You know, I suppose the biggest question would be, should we just assume just because she doesn`t have it on Friday. Is it possible she put

the damn watch back on at least on Sunday? Because there`s so much digital data that watch can tell us?

LALAMA: Well, the viewer is a super sleuth for noticing. Because I`m not sure I would have noticed that, but I think it`s just so hard to say, why

would you take off a watch, Ashleigh, I mean, perhaps she forgot it or misplaced it, I`m trying to figure out what the calculation would be to

have it off that night and put it back on. Unless it was a gift from him and she wanted to have it on when she arrived home. I just -- it`s very

hard to speculate.

BANFIELD: How about this, how about the fact that this is an evening out. It`s a dinner, maybe it`s not as fancy to wear an Apple watch when you`re

dressed in something nice and you want to look a little prettier. Maybe that`s more sporty. Maybe it`s for daytime.

I mean, I wear the same watch no matter whether I`m at work or out at an event. You know, I wear the same watch all the time. I don`t change it.

But other people don`t. Other people say, I don`t want to wear this sporty watch tonight. I just want to go pretty.

LALAMA: She may have just felt it was too much for the evening. Too flashy perhaps.

BANFIELD: Maybe.

LALAMA: Don`t know.

BANFIELD: I don`t know. But an Apple watch is sporty and it`s not elegant and it`s not lovely, you know, in terms of what some people think goes with

a dress or goes with, you know, something nice. I can`t tell what she`s wearing, it`s a little hard. But everybody looks like they`re dressed

pretty nicely and it is a work retreat. So, who knows. Table looks as though they got lots of cocktails. You know, who knows.

I think for all of us who are following this case, we just hope to hell that she had that watch on on Sunday. And that she was tracking that flight

as it was late. She had to have some kind of time piece, maybe her phone, I don`t know.

But as that flight was late and she was stuck in that airport and posting that she couldn`t wait to see Chris and the kids, I just hope she was

looking down at her wrist at that Apple watch that may have been a witness to her murder.

As police comb through the Watts home on Saratoga Trail in Colorado, looking for something, anything that might just get them closer to the who

and the why, they apparently found something in the sofa, in the upstairs loft, something Shanann used all the time. What was it? And why in the hell

was it in the couch? That`s next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Did you have fun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Did you have fun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Say good night, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good night, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids are having fun, that`s all that matters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hot dog, hot dog, hot diggety dog. Hot dog, hot dog, hot diggety dog.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You crashed over the couch, kid. What are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to give Chris a little bit, because I don`t think I want to share this.

What do you want? Do you want another brother or sister?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My kids are happy, my kids love me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: You might not have seen her in years, especially since she moved across the country. But If you were friends with Shanann Watts on Facebook,

you knew what her life was like, because Shanann was not shy about posting videos, putting so many videos on her Facebook, of her girls and of her

husband and even of their cute little dog, Dieter.

She live streamed right from the living room of that beautiful Colorado home. And if you ever pictured Shanann at home, you probably pictured her

with phone in hand ready to capture anything that happened. In fact, a family member telling me, Shanann was never ever ever without that phone.

Which makes you wonder, just where her phone was when she got back from that business trip. Where her phone was while she was being killed. And why

that phone apparently ended up wedged between the cushions of the upstairs sofa.

Joining me now, Karen Smith, retired detective with the Jacksonville Sheriff`s Office and forensics specialist as well. Karen, thanks so much

for being here. I need you to walk me through this. I have gone over so many scenarios in my mind.

Why that phone was discovered between the cushions on the sofa upstairs at the landing. If you go up to the second floor of the Watts` home, there`s a

landing. And it`s kind of like a family room landing with that sofa right there. Somewhere wedged in those pillows was Shanann`s phone. And it`s

something the police said they found out eventually.

So, walk me to the scenarios of how that could be, because when I come home from a business trip, my phone is in my hand.

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: That`s right, exactly, your phone is in your hand. You charge it next to the

dresser or next to the bed, that`s where mine is, most people`s are. Things don`t just happen. The phone was in the couch because someone put it there.

It was wedged between two cushions because somebody stuck it in there likely in an attempt to conceal it from law enforcement, didn`t want it

found for some reason. I`m not sure what that reason might be.

But, you know, the couch is leather. It`s slick. When my phone didn`t have a cover on it, it was slippery as well. You know, to say it would slide

between the two cushions is highly unlikely to me. If it was found between them, someone -- Chris Watts put it there.

BANFIELD: So, let me read from the warrant arrest affidavit.

18:40:01] The more you read over it, the more the syntax and the tense of the wording of the affidavit starts to either confuse you further or make

things more clear.

But this says, in a loft area located between the bedrooms -- that`s what we just pointed out, that landing when you come up the stairs -- was

Shanann`s cell phone that Detective Baumhover -- he was the second one to arrive at the scene -- later learned, later learned was found between two

cushions of a sofa located in the loft area.

So, let me ask you this. She gets home at 1:48 a.m., that`s the last known sighting of her from her friend, Nickole, who dropped her off from the

airport. Her shoes are at the front door. Her luggage is at the stairs. It`s 2:00 in the morning.

She hasn`t seen the kids in three days. The thought prevailing would be that she would go instantly upstairs purse in hand, phone in hand, et

cetera. But her purse was found on the kitchen island. So take me to that scenario.

SMITH: Well, there`s one of two possibilities. Either Shanann came in through the front door, kicked her shoes off, left the suitcase by the

stairs. She`s not going to unpack that night. She didn`t feel well, according to the friend. She was tired. It was late at night. Unpack it

later.

She may have gone to the kitchen, which was, according to the blueprints of the house, was right down the hallway, unloaded her purse on the kitchen

island, fished her phone out, took it upstairs, in which case, that was where the attack happened.

Second scenario is that she did take her purse with her upstairs and had the phone in it, and when Chris Watts was rooting through her things, he

had it downstairs on the kitchen island, found her phone and left the purse there for law enforcement to find later.

BANFIELD: So you`re saying that she very well could have walked straight up those stairs after arriving home and that the purse ended up there not

by her hands, perhaps by someone else`s hands.

And then walk me through this as well. If in fact Shanann -- let`s just say she went to the kitchen to get a glass of water to take upstairs, put the

purse down and just accidentally left it, but had her phone or didn`t have her phone for that matter, but she walked upstairs and something happened

right when she got to the top of the landing in that loft area.

Let`s say she did have her phone. And whatever violence may have happened, it may have happened at that sofa. Is it possible that there`s anyway to

determine a pattern of sofa or scratch marks or anything that perhaps on closer identification, you could see a struggle on that sofa?

SMITH: Law enforcement is going to look for a evidence of a struggle in the entire room, not just centralized on the sofa. If Shanann was getting

attacked in that area, you see an easel there, you see children`s stuff, I don`t know what was where when this attack allegedly occurred in that

space, but things are going to be disrupted not just the couch.

Now, to take a cell phone and have it wedged between two cushions, just logically in my mind, it tells me that it was placed there by a person and

not shoved down there during a struggle.

Now, if they did due diligence, which I`m sure they did and they took photographs of where it was located before they recovered it, that may tell

us a little bit more as this investigation goes forward.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I`m so fascinated to sort of think through the possibilities of why that mysterious phone ended up between those cushions.

Was it a last ditch effort for the accused in this case to hide some evidence because maybe he thought he had more time and the police showed

up, and he had kept that phone, hopefully maybe to send some red herrings.

All of these is just supposition. He is innocent until proven guilty. He has a defense he has to mount. But that damn phone is really perplexing.

As the details of this crime continue to drip and drip and drip out and the investigation into what happened behind the closed doors of the Watts home

continues to push forward, what about that home? That is a beautiful home. That is an expensive home. And the things inside are expensive too. So,

what happens to all of that now?

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Oh, I love it. Good job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: High five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): High five, baby.

You guys like my hat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love the hat.

I may have to comb over your hair like this, and say hey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: What we know now is hard to believe. A father accused of killing those two little girls. But just as incredible is how this case has

snowballed in the court of public opinion, where all of the dark possibilities are being debunked by narrowed down and debunked by tens of

thousands of amateur detectives who are following this story on Facebook.

[18:50:00] It is where you are posting some of the best questions to help us figure out exactly what might have happened in that house. Tonight, we

got some very good questions as well.

This one comes from Michelle Gerber Anderson. Michelle asked, couldn`t the home be considered a time sensitive matter? That was something that was

actually listed in the (INAUDIBLE) documents. Time sensitive. We need an emergency hearing. So, Michelle asked, couldn`t the home be considered a

time sensitive matter?

If it goes into default, anything left in the house could be gone forever. RJ Manuelian, as the attorney in the house, I think it`s a really good

question. We were trying to figure out what was so time sensitive.

RJ MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all the evidence is time sensitive. You want to gather and collect everything on tops (ph) untouched (ph). You

want to establish a chain of custody.

BANFIELD: Yeah, but this is probate, this isn`t criminal. This is the family filing probate saying we need an emergency hearing. This is time

sensitive. What could be time -- is it -- maybe making mortgage payments on the home so it doesn`t fall into default and then, you know, be repossessed

by the bank and then no one gets access to that? They don`t get to resell it?

MANUELIAN: Well, my understanding is they had financial -- the Watts had financial issues before this happened. So, if they were already late on

their mortgage payments and if they`re in default, then there`s a time deadline to getting that default lifted. So, perhaps they`re trying to save

the house and they have a deadline to meet with the mortgage brokers or the bank.

BANFIELD: Yeah, there`s all the issues of what`s inside the house too with the moving van that showed up the other day. Some neighbors saying they saw

a bed frame and a mirror at least. The family confirming to us that there were personal effects, family memorabilia, et cetera.

But we don`t know exactly what was in that moving truck. It`s fairly big. You can only assume some big things were planned for the move. But probate

is interesting because there`s a car. There`s Shanann`s car. It was lifted in the probate.

Real quickly, there`s a big question here from Sheryl Ford Mankie. My question would be, if all this happened because of illness and bills, then

why would Chris have talked Shanann into having another baby? It doesn`t make sense.

Listen to this quick soundbite from Shanann`s Facebook about Chris wanting a boy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a boy. I hope it`s a boy for him. It will make him happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guess when you want something, it happens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: You know, Pat Lalama, the interesting thing is on another posting, Shanann actually said that Chris convinced her to have another

baby. So it`s not necessarily her convincing him to have another baby. It seemed to be the other way around which makes it even more confusing.

LALAMA: Well, I think it`s not black and white as we discussed earlier. You know, it`s interesting. I have known people all my life who were

phenomenal parents, who love their children and did horrendous things to their spouses.

OK, so, I think there`s part of him that maybe he finds some stability in the children, but he -- but listen to what she said, Ashleigh. It will make

him happy, like, once again, she is trying to do things to make him happy, to keep that marriage together.

BANFIELD: Good point. It`s a good point. So, there`s this other question about how police got to the grave sites so quickly. How they found that oil

site before Chris confessed allegedly. Got an answer, next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you can believe it, there are 89,000 people on Facebook, who are members of groups talking about this case. It amounts to about 45 plus

different Facebook groups.

Lily Petitt is one of them and she sends us this very good question. My question is, does Chris Watts direct the police to the site where his wife

was buried and children put in the oil containers or did the police discover their bodies on their own?

Pat Lalama, what`s fascinating is that they were at the oil site before that alleged confession. What do you suppose took them there?

LALAMA: Well, how about this? How about technology? How about a drone? They have the coordinates, and if I`m not mistaken, they have them from

Chris Watts, but use a drone to identify that location.

BANFIELD: Do you know what I`m thinking? GPS on his work truck. I`m suspecting that they looked at the GPS on his work truck and found out that

he was there for an inordinate amount of time over the course of Monday morning, Sunday night, Monday morning.

LALAMA: How technology has changed crime fighting, right?

BANFIELD: Isn`t it something?

LALAMA: Yes.

BANFIELD: But then here`s the other deal. They took the drone, they took the photos, and then they came in to the confession room, the alleged

confession room, and they say he pointed out the three sites of the places where the kids and his wife were. Doesn`t make any sense to me.

LALAMA: Nor does it me either. I just don`t know.

BANFIELD: I mean, that truly is. You know, we just don`t know why he said, I want to talk to my dad and then I`ll tell you the truth. And then as soon

as dad was out of the room, conversation happened. That`s it. The flood gates opened and we have the story we have.

LALAMA: Ashleigh --

[19:00:00] BANFIELD: We have seven seconds until the end of the show, Pat. I`m going to have you on in the next hour, OK?

LALAMA: OK.

BANFIELD: Next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Met somebody at work. You see maybe this place has more potential the relationship I have with --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Shocking new bombshell tonight about the scandal before the murders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIELD MALE: Did she suspect he might have been cheating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was speculation, but she didn`t want to believe that either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Something else Chris might have wanted to keep secret. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that it came to her mind that possibly he could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, you know, he has no

game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Confirmation tonight, Shanann had suspected Chris of cheating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn`t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn`t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that.\

] (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So just how long had she been suspicious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS, WIFE, CHRIS WATTS: I stuck around because he was the one for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: What exactly was Chris up to while the girls were off on vacation?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: Six weeks we`re going to be in North Carolina. Monday Chris can travel that long with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Is that why Shanann seemed to cut her husband from her Facebook feed?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: I`ll come over? Weirdo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Until the night she came home to her death

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WATTS, SUSPECTED MURDERER: We had an emotional conversation but I`ll leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Or was she trying to send a message to a mistress?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: He`s the best thing that`s ever happened to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And does his alleged affair explain why Chris would have killed them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIELD MALE: You always want to look closest to the person who they have the closest relationships with when you see a crime like this, which

is a crime of passion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Perhaps the autopsies will have all the answers. They`re now complete and in the hands of the lawyers. Good evening everyone. I`m

Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and Justice. Tonight we are probing into the Watts family and it is getting a little less private. The source close

to the investigation confirming to us a scandalous exclusive new detail that Shanann Watts suspected that Chris was indeed cheating weeks before

she wound up dead. Buried in a shallow grave by the oil tanks where their daughter`s bodies were dumped.

Tonight we know the autopsies have been completed. And that both sets of lawyers have the details. And we don`t know when we though will be able to

see these results, and what we do have tonight are the sad new intimate details about the Watts` fraying relationship. Details that put every

moment of this summer under the micro scope because the watts family had seemed perfect. And Chris Watts seemed like the perfect husband.

And Shanann Watts could not stop gushing about on Facebook. But Chris didn`t seem to be the star of the show this summer. When Shanann took the

girls across the country leaving her husband Chris in an empty home for over a month and a half and leaving the rest of us to question now what

exactly was he up to in that empty home? The empty home he would later complain about when he told the world his family was simply missing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WATTS: This house is not complete without anybody here. I was hoping that I would get just ran over by the kids running in the door, just

barrel rushing me. It didn`t happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This house is not complete, he says without the kids. It`s lonely effectively, he was telling us. Look, just weeks before that, he

had been alone for five weeks in the house. How different could it really have been?

Joining me now, Crime Journalist Pat Lalama. Pat, I suppose it`s no surprise or at least no major surprise that in fact Shanann felt like Chris

wasn`t being himself, that the family confirms to us that Chris wasn`t being himself in the weeks leading up to these murders.

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: You know, Ashleigh, I have believed from the beginning that something was wrong that there were fractures in this

marriage. And we see all the video, and i love him so much, and he stuck with me, and I`m ill, and we have such good friends and everything is just

hunky-dory. I never felt that was the case. I`ve always felt that she almost over saturated media with these happy photos, deep inside she was so

hoping for that to be the case. But I never believed it was, not for a minute.

BANFIELD: You know the family also confirmed to us Pat. That they suspect that this affair between Chris and the co-worker that is alleged in his,

you know, as police say his confession, and we have sources that have told us that this woman at work and they say a woman is cooperating with the

investigators. The family suspects this had been going on for 6 to 10 months.

LALAMA: Well that`s very likely, but again I don`t think that`s the issue. I don`t think you wipe out, desecrate your entire family because of an

affair. I think a psychologist or psychiatrist could speak to this more deeply. But he wanted to be unencumbered, plain and simple, and didn`t

want any -- this is alleged.

It`s all perception on my part. I don`t know anything for sure. But I am telling you, this was not a happy marriage, and she knew it. And I think

she was pleading in a way, saying, it`s good, it`s good, it`s really good, see all these pictures, see all this video but it wasn`t. I think she was

trying to hide that. And I think she was trying to convince herself it was better than it was.

BANDIELD: So Jeff Gardere is that clinical and forensic psychologist that you`re referring to and he happen to be seated right beside me and one of

the best in the business. I`ll tell you Jeff, doc something else that the family confirmed to me and that is that she had never gone on this summer

vacation to see the family before, the in-laws for more than three weeks. She had never been apart from Chris with those children away from him for

more than three weeks. This summer, five, five and he came for the sixth. Does that speak volumes to you?

JEE GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: It really does. And I see it as almost escape into wellness. In other words, she had to be away from that

scene, from that husband, from the negative vibes that she had, suspecting that something was going on.

It`s almost giving yourself a self-imposed separation. So you can figure out what it is you need to do. And it`s also a test to see, what would he

do? What would happen when I come home? Will it be better? And I wouldn`t be surprised if perhaps she had given him an ultimatum and told him

whatever you`re doing, work it out, when I come back, I want to see things better.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you something, in this new day and age. Since you and I began covering cases there`s a lot of things thgat changed, like ring.com

and doorbell cams and, you know, cameras that monitor the interior of your house. A lot of our conversations wouldn`t have included that but the

psychology of her leaving him in that house all by himself, if she had these suspicions he was having an affair. I guess maybe they`re swaged by

the idea that she could keep an idea on that house at all times.

GARDERE: And it`s almost a test that she`s putting him through. She may not have even told him if there was something there, some sort of device,

or that she would be looking at these things. Perhaps she never did it before but would probably do it now upon her return, or monitoring what was

going on . So again, I think it was a situation of where she suspected something was going on.

She wanted things to change, and Pat is absolutely correct, I think she was hoping against hope with all of these positive thoughts and images, mind

over matter, can I make this right? Can I change this person? It`s hard to change a psychopath.

BANFIELD: We wondered. We wondered, you know, we have continuously wondered, without any confirmation from the police and the attorneys in the

case aren`t talking to us either. And certainly the DA is not talking. We wondered if she maybe found out and it led to an explosive confrontation

the night she died.

We wonder if she knew anything at any point and hearing this confirmation from you know, from the family that she had her suspicion for weeks that

there was an affair going on. You know the family is not the only entity in this equation either that had suspicions or at least suggested that she

had suspicions. Nicole Atkinson, one of her dear, dear friends In fact the friend that came to check on her on Monday morning as she was supposed to

be at a doctor`s appointment and wasn`t answering her phone. She said this to ABC`s Nightline. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE ATKINSON, SHANANN WATTS FRIEND: He wasn`t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn`t touching or hugging or doing stuff like

that, and he wasn`t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.

UNIDENTIFIELD MALE: Did he suspect she might have been cheating?

ATKINSON: There was speculation, but she didn`t want to believe that either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Nicole Atkinson wasn`t the only person that she had confided in either. It turns out that those pour unsuspecting husband and

wife couple who took Chris Watts in on Tuesday night after his family went missing, The Thayer`s, Amanda and Nick Thanyer. They also had something to

say about that, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA THAYER, WATTS NEIGHBOR: He said it came to her mind that possibly he could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, you know, he has

no game. .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: She may have said he has no game. But there`s so much more to this, and coming up in just a little bit we`re going to explore some of the

final posts which we also now exclusively know she sent from the airport before she was headed back to her death. I mean, there`s really no other

way to put it, she was coming back from that work trip. And she was posting about her kids and Chris.

In retrospect, knowing what we know now, that was indeed what happened. We`re going to explore that in a moment.

First I want to go to an issue that`s happening tomorrow. We discovered in some court filings, there is a phone call planned tomorrow morning, 9:30 I

believe local time in Colorado. And it is a conference call regarding probate. That would be one of the most boring stories that would never see

the light of day in a headline, unless, of course, it is Shanann Watts probate, her family is supposed to be on the line, they`re attorneys are

supposed to be on the line, and Chris watts could be on the line.

Jeff Gardere, I`m trying to put myself in their shoes. in the family`s shoes. Gearing up, for what could be their first confrontation with the man

accused of killing their daughter, sister, little nieces. To know that he could be on the phone and either listening silently or an active

participant. How would you help him get through this. .

GARDERE: I think more than anything they`re praying. But I think you have to give them strategy. Strategy is empowerment, Ashleigh. You tell

them, try to control your anger, try to control your emotions, because you want to get this through this as smoothly as possible. Get as much

information as possible but more than anything else, you want to make sure not to betray your emotions in front of this person that you believe killed

your family in this way, because that would be giving him a satisfaction that he does not deserve.

BANFIELD: RJ Manuelian is a defense attorney. He`s based in Los Angeles. He`s with me now as well. And RJ I think maybe you might be best to weigh-

in on what do you do on either side of this conflict. How do you council Chris Watts if he`s going to be on this phone call? How do you council this

grieving family. They are more than likely to be on this phone call, they requested the emergency hearing to deal with all of the things left behind.

Shanann had no will, and they`ve called this pressing, time sensitive issues, how do you council these parties on a call like this?

RJ MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you have to prep your client properly. You have to tell them that you have to be sensitive toward the

family because they have lost their daughter and they`re devastated. But more importantly, what you want to do is make sure that he doesn`t say

anything that could actually be used against him. they`re going to record these phone calls, if he says something incriminatory meaning if he says

something that goes against his interests, that will be used against him in a court of law.

BANFIELD: let me ask you something, RJ typically court proceedings are public in this country. this is a democracy, this is a civil matter, it`s

not criminal, the D.A. has nothing to do with it, but it`s a phone call, are we privy to what happens in this phone call?

MANUELIAN: Typically, public proceedings are things that the public would go see. this may not be public, and the judge could put an order to allow

only certain parties to listen to the conversation, depending on whether they think it`s going to harm the criminal case or harm the civil case,

they may put parameters on who may be able to listen to this call.

BANFIELD: This will be recorded. Not just because most calls out of a jail are recorded anyway, whether it`s a hearing or a chat with your mom, but

also because it`s public record. They have to have this on record, it has to be recorded.

MANUELIAN: They have to be recorded, Ashleigh because all the parties are allowed to get transcripts, and they`re allowed to have everything

transcribed to take a look at it. It could be former testimony, and it could be used against either party in the criminal matter or civil matter.

BANFIELD: All right well hold that thought for a moment as -- you know God give that family strength tomorrow on that phone call. We will do our best

to try to dig into the record on this. It is very hard to get reporting on this case.

I can`t imagine that the civil matter will be any easier, and I certainly can tell you that I don`t think we`ll have cameras on the phone lines to

find out what`s said during this proceeding tomorrow. But you can imagine if you were a fly on the line, what the mood would be like between that

connection, that family and that man and while we continue to analyze this crime and the Watts family from Shanann`s vast digital footprint as well.

We have come across this photo, look closely, this is a picture of Shanann, and it is just days before her death. She`s happy. She`s jovial. It would

seem she is without something we know she`s had with her all the time, though. And if you look closely, you will see the clue I`m referring to,

something is missing in this photo. But would it be missing 48 hours later when she was almost about to die? That`s next. today,

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: I stuck around because he was the one for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If someone is not faithful to their partner the partners realize that the relationship cannot be sustained.

THAYER: He could be cheating, but at the same time she was like, he has no game.

SHANANN WATTS: I can`t tell you how wonderful he is

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man claims that he had an affair with Chris Watts.

SHANANN WATTS: He knew me at my worst and he accepted me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Another bombshell tonight. It is the kind of bombshell you would not want to hit the headlines, especially if you`re the attorney

representing Chris Watts. You know what it means to a lot of people? It means motive and motive is important to a jury even though the lawyers

don`t have to prove it.

All the way as the wrangling over why this happened and who did it, goes on and on in the case. We have obtained a photo and it is a photo that you

can only say is sad. A photo of Shanann enjoying drinks with co-workers. Quite possibly, it is the last public photo of her, where she is unaware

that this happy hour would be one of her last hours alive. In a strange and spooky twist to this story, Chris did make a surprise appearance in what

could be one of Shanann`s last known Facebook posts as well.

When she checked from the Phoenix Airport on her way home to Denver, Colorado saying how excited she was, how excited she was to be getting home

to Chris and the kids. She`s in the airport. The flight is delayed and she`s posting on Facebook that she`s excited to be getting back to Chris

and the kids.

She even posted the map, the map from airport to airport. There you had it August 12th, 11:09 p.m. in Phoenix, Arizona wrapping up her trip, late in

the airport ready to be home with Chris and the girls, and the map behind it shows she`s headed for Denver Airport and then the drive to her home.

Little did she know within hours of this post,she and those girls would be dead

Joining me now again, Jeff Gardere, clinical and forensic psychologist. Jeff I can`t make sense of this. I cannot make sense of what we just

reported 22 minutes ago, the family saying she had her suspicions he was cheating for weeks. The family thinks he may have been cheating for

somewhere between 6 and 10 months. Hours before she is set to die. She posts, I can`t wait to get home to Chris and the girls.

GARDERE: I think a couple of things going on here. One is it`s just the black and white situation. You suspect someone of cheating. You`re angry

all the time.

She really loved this man. She was really dependent on this individual. And therefore she missed him and wanted to see him. That`s one possibility.

The second one, which is really interesting, what if it was a message, what if it was letting whomever know that might have been involved with Chris

that she was heading home.

Ashleigh I`ve worked with patients where a husband suspected his wife was cheating. Instead of going to the home directly and surprising whomever may

be there, he called first because he wanted to avoid the scene. He wanted to make sure that nothing untoward would happen. He wasn`t ready

psychologically for what he may have encountered. That`s a possibility too, a message being sent.

BANFIELD: Is it possible as well that the message was a little more direct than that. a direct message to the mistress. Bugger off, we`re happy, get

lost?

GARDERE: Absolutely. And I think that perfectly follows what my thought is about this that it is a very clear message whether it was sent consciously

or unconsciously. This is a woman who wants to protect her husband, her family, protect a way of life.

BANFIELD: Can I just add to this mix, because there`s so many facts in this story, that sometimes things get dropped or lost? She`s pregnant.

GARDERE: Yes.

BANFIELD: She`s 15 weeks pregnant.

GARDERE: Yes.

BANFIELD: The dynamic is entirely different than if she weren`t pregnant. Yes, there are two children. But she`s pregnant.

GARDERE: And she needs to nest. She needs to be in an environment where she in the past has felt safe. And may be willing to maybe look the other

way or clear out the house before she gets there so that there isn`t anything that in anyway may affect that pregnancy. She wants to be happy,

she wants to be home, there are other feelings going on.

BANFIELD: She may be suggesting to him I need you

GARDERE: That`s right.

BANFIELD: And I love you.

GARDERE: And I`ve given you another chance for our babies. For this baby I`m carrying.

BANFIELD: OK. There are so many questions and our Facebook viewers are amazing about this. They constantly ask about the third baby. Was this

planned, was it an accident? Was it Shanann trying to save the relationship?

I can tell you this, we know from the Thayers they discussed having another baby, and being pregnant together. It`s not as though this was an accident.

Even the oops I did it again joke. But the baby issue, you know, if Chris was involved with this woman as the family has told us again this exclusive

tonight that they think maybe 6 to 10 months. why? Why get pregnant? Why add that complication to an already complicated and emotional situation in

the family.

GARDERE: For her that may be the anchor to get him to change to get him to be the father he should be. The husband he should be. For him, it play be a

situation where he`s not looking at consequences. This is what we find with people who may be psychopaths. They`re living day to day, so for him, it

didn`t make a difference perhaps if another baby was there, because whatever he had planned on doing, or thought about doing, it was going to

happen anyway.

BANFIELD: A little later, I`m going to play you how Shanann felt how Chris felt about the baby and how they came to that decision. That`s coming

up in a little bit. I just want to show you real quickly how Shanann`s Facebook video diminished because she was so prolific on Facebook. February

she posted 21 videos, you know, down in March, just six. But look at April, 18 videos. May, 18 videos in June, 14 videos, July, five. August, zero.

Does that tell you this is someone who -- no matter what she`s posting, and even if she`s trying to put on a brave face, she is having a difficult time

to do it.

GARDERE: Absolutely. Pat talked about this earlier that she is doing everything in her power to paint a pretty picture of what`s going on.

That`s a lot of videos especially for someone who is pregnant at this point. And then you see them diminish as you pointed out. And the reason

that`s happening is because of the ambivalence, because of the anger, because of the disappointment. That reality is setting in, that all is not

well in Disneyland, this home that she calls.

BANFIELD: Yes, by the way, I look at this video we`re watching right now, so many different ways. When I first I thought oh there`s, you know,

Chris playing with the girls. Everything seems so normal. Now I look at it like he`s got his back turned to Shanann, even though she`s talking to him

and referring to the girls, and you know saying hello. And he never turns around and says, hi, yes, I`m here, hello as most of typically do when we

know there`s a camera rolling at some point.

GARDERE: That`s right.

BANFIELD: It just looks so troubling. And I think this is fully from May. This is one of her long Facebook live posts about 38 minutes or so

where she gushes about him, gushes about how lucky she is to be with him and how lucky they are to have this father. And sow he changed her life,

and he`s her everything. And it`s just it`s so frustrating.

GARDERE: I agree with you. It just seems that he`s observing, observing, observing and something is keeping him.

BANFIELD: Or despondent. That`s what it looks like to me.

GARDERE: Yes. Yes. Yes and it`s keeping him from being totally involved in this beautiful family moment.

BANFIELD: Yes. Pat Lalama as a Crime Journalist, I thought of you immediately, when a Facebook viewer asked this question. And it -- this is

one clever Facebook viewer, let me tell you. Diana says, watching the show tonight, although I hope she was wearing her watch. But her last picture

taken in Arizona, I notice she isn`t wearing it.

That photograph we just put up of that really one of the last known photographs of her at a gathering on Friday night, when she just got to

Arizona for this work retreat. Look at her wrist, she doesn`t have the watch on Friday night. She`s in Arizona for Sunday with the retreat and she

goes to the airport Sunday night and flies home to her death. You know I suppose the biggest question would be, should we just assume because she

doesn`t have it on Friday, is it possible she put the damn watch back on Sunday? Because there`s so much digital data that watch can tell us?

LALAMA: Well the viewer is a super sleuth for noticing because I`m not sure I would have noticed that. But I think it`s hard to say, why would

you take off a watch, Ashleigh. perhaps she forgot it or misplaced it. I`m trying to figure out what the calculation would be to have it off that

night and put it back on. Unless it was a gift from him and she wanted to have it on when she arrived home. I just -- it`s very hard to speculate.

BANFIELD: How about the fact that this is an evening out. It`s a dinner, maybe it`s not as fancy to wear an Apple watch when you`re dressed in

something nice and you want to look a little prettier. Maybe that`s more sporty. Maybe it`s for daytime. I mean, I wear the same watch, no matter

whether I`m at work or out at an event, or, you know, I wear the same watch all the time. I don`t change it, but other people don`t. Other people say

I don`t want to wear this sporty watch tonight. I just want to go pretty.

LALAMA: She might have just felt it was too much for the evening. Too flashy, perhaps.

BANFIELD: Maybe.

LALAMA: I don`t know.

BANFIELD: I don`t know. But an Apple Watch is sporty, and it`s not elegant and it`s not lovely, you know, in terms of what some people think

goes with a dress or goes with, you know, something nice. I can`t tell what she`s wearing, it`s a little hard. But everybody looks like they`re

dressed pretty nicely, and it is a work retreat. So, who knows? Table looks as though they`ve got lots of cocktails, you know, who knows? But I

think for all of us who are following this case, we just hope to hell that she had that watch on on Sunday. And that she was tracking that flight as

it was late, she had to have some kind of timepiece, maybe her phone, I don`t know.

But as that flight was late and she was stuck in that airport and posting that she couldn`t wait to see Chris and the kids, I just hope she was

looking down at her wrist at that Apple Watch that may have been a witness to her murder. As police comb through the Watts` home on Saratoga Trail in

Colorado, looking for something, anything that might just get them closer to the who and the why. They apparently found something in the sofa, in

the upstairs loft, something Shanann used all the time, what was it? And why in the hell was it in the couch? That`s next.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Did you have fun?

BELLA WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Uh-hmm.

S. WATTS: Did you have fun?

B. WATTS: Hi, everybody.

S. WATTS: Say good night, everybody.

B. WATTS: Good night, everybody.

S. WATTS: The kids are having fun, that`s all that matters.

CHRIS WATTS, MURDER SUSPECT: Hot dog, hot dog, hot diggity dog. Hot dog, hot dog, hot diggity dog.

S. WATTS: You crashed over the couch, kid. What are you doing?

B. WATTS: I`m (INAUDIBLE)

S. WATTS: I`m only going to give Chris a little bit, because I don`t think I would want to share this.

What do you want, do you want another brother or sister?

CELESTE WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Sister.

S. WATTS: My kids are happy, my kids love me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Might not have seen her in years, especially since she moved across the country. But if you were friends with Shanann Watts on

Facebook, you knew what her life was like, because Shanann was not shy about posting videos, putting so many videos on her Facebook, of her girls

and of her husband, and even of their cute little dog Dieter. And she live streamed right from the living room of that beautiful Colorado home. And

if you ever pictured Shanann at home, you probably pictured her with phone in hand, ready to capture anything that happened. In fact, a family member

telling me, Shanann was never ever, ever without that phone. Which makes you wonder, just where her phone was when she got back from that business

trip? Where her phone was while she was being killed? And why that phone apparently ended up wedged between the cushions of the upstairs sofa?

Joining me now, Karen Smith, a retired detective with the Jacksonville Sheriff`s Office and forensic specialist as well. Karen, thanks so much

for being here. I need you to walk me through this, I have gone over so many scenarios in my mind, why that phone was discovered between the

cushions on the -- on the sofa upstairs at the landing. If you go up to the second floor of the Watt`s home, there`s a landing, and it`s kind of

like a family room landing with that sofa right there. Somewhere wedged in those pillows, was Shanann`s phone. And it`s something that police said

they found out, eventually. So, walk me through the scenarios of how that could be. Because when I come home from a business trip, my phone is in my

hand.

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: That`s right, exactly, your phone is in your hand, you charge it next to the

dresser or next to the bed, that`s where mine is, most people`s are. Things don`t just happen, the phone was in the couch because someone put it

there. It was wedged between two cushions because somebody stuck it in there, likely in an attempt to conceal it from law enforcement, didn`t want

it found for some reason. I`m not sure what that reason might be, but you know, the couch is leather, it`s slick. When my phone didn`t have a cover

on it, it was slippery as well, it`s glass. You know, to say it would slide between the two cushions is highly unlikely to me. If it was found

between them, someone -- read -- Chris Watts put it there.

[19:39:59] BANFIELD: So, let me reads from the warrantless arrest affidavit. Because the more you read over it, the more the syntax and the

tense of the wording of the -- of the affidavit starts to either confuse you further or make things more clear, but this says, "In a loft area,

located between the bedrooms," that`s what we just pointed out, that landing when you come up the stairs, "was Shanann`s cell phone that

Detective Baumhover," he was the second one to arrive at the scene, "later learned -- later learned was found between two cushions of a sofa located

in the loft area."

So, let me ask you this. She gets home at 1:48 a.m., that`s the last known sighting of her from her friend, Nicole, who dropped her off from the

airport. Her shoes are at the front door, her luggage is at the stairs. It`s 2:00 in the morning, she hasn`t seen the kids in three days. The

thought prevailing would be that she would go instantly upstairs, purse in hand, phone in hand, et cetera. But her purse was found on the kitchen

island. So, take me through that scenario.

SMITH: Well, there`s one of two possibilities: either Shanann came in through the front door, kicked her shoes off, left the suitcase by the

stairs. She`s not going to unpack that night, she didn`t feel well according to the friend, she was tired. It was late at night, unpack it

later. She may have gone to the kitchen, which was according to the blueprints of the house, was right down the hallway, unloaded her purse on

the kitchen island, fished her phone out, took it upstairs, in which case, that was where the attack happened.

Second scenario is that she did take her purse with her upstairs and had the phone in it, and when Chris Watts was rooting through her things, he

had it downstairs on the kitchen island, found her phone and left the purse there for law enforcement to find later.

BANFIELD: So, you`re saying that she very well could have walked straight up those stairs after arriving home and that the purse ended up there not

by her hands, perhaps by someone else`s hands. And then walk me through this as well, if in fact, Shanann -- and let`s just say she went to the

kitchen to get a glass of water to take upstairs, put the purse down and just accidentally left it, that had her phone, or didn`t have her phone for

that matter, but she walked upstairs and something happened right when she got to the top of the landing in that loft area. Let`s say she did have

her phone. And whatever violence may have happened, it may have happened at that sofa. Is it possible that there`s anyway to determine a patterns

of sofas or scratch marks or anything that perhaps on closer identification, you could see a struggle on that sofa?

SMITH: What law enforcement is going to look for, you know, evidence of a struggle in the entire room, not just centralized on the sofa. You know,

if Shanann was getting attacked in that area, you see an easel there, you see children`s stuff. I don`t know what was where when this attack

allegedly occurred in that space, but things are going to be disrupted, not just the couch. Now, to take the cell phone and have it wedged between two

cushions, just logically, in my mind, it tells me that it was placed there by a person and not shoved down there during a struggle. Now, if they did

due diligence, which I`m sure they did, and they took photographs of where it was located before they recovered it, that may tell us a little bit more

as this investigation goes forward.

BANFIELD: Yes, I`m so fascinated to sort of think through the possibilities of why that mysterious phone ended up between those cushions.

Was it -- was it a last ditch effort for the accused in this case to hide some evidence because maybe he thought he had more time and the police

showed up, and he had kept that phone, hopefully maybe to send some red herrings. All of this is just supposition, he is innocent until proven

guilty. He has a defense he has to mount, but that phone it is really -- it`s perplexing. And as the details of this crime continue to drip and

drip and drip out in the investigation into what happened behind the closed doors of the Watts home continues to push forward, what about that home?

That is a beautiful home. That is an expensive home. And the things inside are expensive, too. So, what happens to all of that now?

[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: Say, hi. Oh, I love it, good job.

B. WATTS: High five.

S. WATTS: High five, baby. You guys like my hat?

C. WATTS: I love the hat.

I might just have to comb over your hair like this, and say hey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: What we know now is hard to believe, a father accused of killing those two little girls, but just as incredible, it`s how this case has

snowballed in the court of public opinion, where all the dark possibilities are being tested and narrowed down and debunked by tens of thousands of

amateur detectives who are following this story on Facebook. It is where you are posting some of the best questions to help us figure out exactly

what might have happened in that house.

[19:50:09] And tonight, we got some very good questions, as well. This one comes from Michelle Gerber Anderson. Michelle asked, "Couldn`t the home be

considered a time sensitive matter?" that was something that was actually listed in the probate documents, time sensitive, we need an emergency

hearing. So, Michelle asked, "Couldn`t the home be considered a time sensitive matter? If it goes into default, anything left in the house

could be gone forever."

R.J. Manuelian, as the attorney in the house, I think it`s a really good question, we were trying to figure out what was so time sensitive.

R.J. MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all the evidence is time sensitive. You want to gather and collect everything, untapped, untouched,

you want to establish a chain of custody so that when you go --

BANFIELD: Yes, but this is probate. This isn`t criminal. This is the family filing probate, saying we need an emergency hearing, this is time

sensitive. What could be time -- is it -- I`m just guessing, I`m spitballing here, maybe making mortgage payments on the home so it doesn`t

fall into default and then, you know, be repossessed by the bank, and then no one gets access to that, they don`t get to resell it?

MANUELIAN: Well, my understanding is they had financial -- the Watts had financial issues before this happened. So, if they were already late on

their mortgage payments and if they`re in default, then there`s a time deadline to getting that default lifted. So perhaps they are trying to

save the house, and they have a deadline to meet with the mortgage brokers or the bank.

BANFIELD: Yes, there`s all the issues of what`s inside the house, too, with the moving van that showed up the other day. Some neighbors saying

they saw a bed frame and mirror at least. The family confirming to us that they were personal effects, family memorabilia, mementos, et cetera, but we

don`t know exactly what was in that moving truck. It`s fairly big, so you can only assume some big things were planned for the move. But probate is

interesting because there`s a car, there`s Shanann`s car, it was listed in the probate.

Real quickly, there`s a good question here from Sheryl Swartz Menke, "My question would be, if all this happened because of illness and bills, then

why would Chris have talked Shanann into having another baby? It doesn`t make sense." Listen to this quick sound byte here from Shanann`s Facebook

about Chris wanting a boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: It`s a boy. I hope it`s a boy for him. It will make him happy.

C. WATTS: I guess when you want to, it happens. Wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: You know, Pat Lalama, the interesting thing is on another posting, Shanann actually said that Chris, you know, convinced her to have

another baby, so it`s not necessarily her convincing him to have another baby, it seemed to be the other way around, which makes it even more

confusing.

LALAMA: Well, I think it`s not black and white, as we discussed earlier. There -- you know, it`s interesting. I have known people in my life who

were phenomenal parents who love their children and did horrendous things to their spouses, OK? So, I think there`s part of him that maybe he finds

some stability in the children, but he -- but listen to what she said, Ashleigh, it will make him happy. Like, once again, she`s trying to do

things to make him happy, to keep that marriage together.

BANFIELD: Good point. It`s a good point. So, there`s this other question about how police got to the gravesites so quickly. How they found that oil

site before Chris confessed, allegedly. Got that answer, next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If you can believe it, there are 89,000 people on Facebook who are members of groups taking about this case. It amounts to about 45 plus

different Facebook groups. Lily Petit is one of them and she sent us this very good question. "My question is does Chris Watts direct the police to

the site where his wife was buried and children put in the oil containers, or did the police discover their bodies on their own?" Pat Lalama, what`s

fascinating is that they were at the oil site before that alleged confession. What do you suppose took them there?

LALAMA: Well, how about this, how about technology? How about a drone? They have the coordinates, and I`m not mistaken, they have them from Chris

Watts, but used a drone to identify that location.

BANFIELD: Do you know what I`m thinking? GPS on his work truck. I`m suspecting that they looked at the GPS on his work truck and found out that

he was there for an ordinate amount of time over the course of Monday morning -- Sunday night, Monday morning, you know?

LALAMA: How technology has changed crime fighting, right?

BANFIELD: Isn`t it something?

LALAMA: Yes.

BANFIELD: But then here`s the other deal, they took the drone, they took the photos, and then they came in to the confession room, the alleged

confession room, and they say he pointed out the three sites of the -- of the places where the kids and his wife were. That doesn`t make any sense

to me.

LALAMA: Nor does it me, either. I just don`t know.

BANFIELD: I mean, that`s truly it. You know, we just don`t know why he said I want to talk to my dad, and then I`ll tell you the truth, and then

as soon as dad was out of the room, conversation happened. That`s it.

[20:00:00] Thanks for watching, everyone. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END