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New York Times: Trump Helped Parents Evade Taxes, Padding Personal Fortune; Sen. Chris Coon Discusses FBI Report On Kavanaugh Accusations; Virginia Women's Group Taking Action Ahead Of Midterms. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 04, 2018 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:27] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A bombshell "New York Times" report lays out in great detail how President Trump allegedly helped his parents, for years, evade paying taxes to avoid paying millions and millions of dollars. The White House calls this totally false and, quote, "boring."

Let's bring in investigative report David Cay Johnston. He is the author of "It's Even Worse Than You Think: What the Trump Administration Is Doing to America."

And, Trump biographer Michael D'Antonio. He is the author of "The Shadow President" and a CNN contributor.

It's great to have both of you Trumpologists with us this morning. I can't imagine two people who have been more steeped in the history of Donald Trump.

David, to you, first. You were the tax reporter for "The New York Times." You've spent years and years looking into Donald Trump's personal finances and his empire.

So what did you take away from this exhaustive "New York Times" article?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, AUTHOR, "IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN YOU THINK: WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DOING TO AMERICA": This is an actually masterful piece of journalism that involved more than five years of reporting by three reporters, 18 months each -- over 100,00 documents. And as I read this I did not wince once at the technical issues in it about accounting, tax, and law.

This is an extraordinary piece of work and the most important thing it shows, beyond the tax cheating, is that -- as I've said for years and I think Michael has -- there's no evidence Donald Trump is or ever was a billionaire, and lo and behold, it's daddy's money. And he made claims left and right for things that were daddy's money and daddy's deals.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, this is part of the issue, right, Michael, is that he has claimed that he's a self-made man. He's pulled himself up by his bootstraps if you can even describe that as someone who got a million-dollar loan from their father.

But it turns out it wasn't just the $1 million loan from his father. According to this new reporting, it was a $60.7 million from his father, and that was just the loan that they say wasn't paid back. Then there was at least $413 million in today's dollars. The equivalent would have been $413 million of what Fred Trump gave to Donald Trump over the years.

Your thoughts?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, DONALD TRUMP BIOGRAPHER, AUTHOR, "THE SHADOW PRESIDENT: THE TRUTH ABOUT MIKE PENCE": Well, you're correct about the math, and I think it's been evident to all of us. Like David, I know. I've researched this thoroughly and I've looked into it.

Even if you go back to the Commodore Hotel deal, which became the Grand Hyatt and then Trump Tower itself, there were tens of millions of dollars of Fred Trump's money engaged there and his credit was the credit that allowed Donald to get financing for his early projects.

But one of the things that I think is really fascinating in all of this is that New Yorkers and, really, people generally, I think have been aware that there was an incredible amount of hype around the president's wealth and it's almost baked into how people regard him.

So on one side, people are going to be saying well, he's just a very shrewd man. He took advantage of all of the loopholes and extra benefits that you get when wealth is inherited.

And other people will say well, that's Donald Trump. We knew who he was. How in the world can you support him?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

D'ANTONIO: And so, the "Times" has contributed immensely to the record but as we all seem to know these days, it doesn't really move the public very much at all.

CAMEROTA: But that's the -- therein lies the rub, David. What is the answer? Was this just that he was the recipient of his father's largess and good on him or was there tax cheating going on here, which is illegal?

[07:35:12] JOHNSTON: Well, there was absolutely illegal tax evasion and "The New York Times" used the phrase "outright fraud."

Now, the statute of limitations has passed on everything the "Times" has, which was from the 50s up until the turn of the century. But the government can still go after them for civil fraud. And, Donald Trump was tried twice in the 19 -- over the 1980s tax returns he filed for civil tax fraud and he lost both of those cases.

The State of New York has said --

CAMEROTA: And had to pay sort of a fraction of what, I guess, he would have owed.

JOHNSTON: Well, he had to pay everything that he owed, plus in one of the two cases, all the penalties.

And in the other case, the judge waived the penalties because the only tax return -- the one that was actually filed -- was a photocopy. And so out of caution, the judge did not impose penalties. And in that case, Donald's own tax lawyer testified that the tax return was fraudulent, so it's surprising he didn't pay penalties.

But the State of New York has said they're investigating this all the way back to the 50s because there's no statute of limitations. Donald Trump and his surviving siblings are liable if the government wants to go after them civilly for the taxes, for penalties, and for interest.

CAMEROTA: So Michael, look, you, I guess, have known this but this reveals that Donald Trump is not a self-made man. He had a huge, golden balloon that lifted him from the ranks of sort of regular mortals.

And do you think that this is why it's important to see his current tax returns or more recent tax returns and what they would reveal?

D'ANTONIO: Well, I do agree that it's absolutely essential that those tax returns be made public for a number of reasons. One is that as everyone else suspects, I imagine that they're going to give us information on the complexity of his returns -- the methods that he used to avoid or evade paying taxes.

And also, it will give some sense of what his real net worth is, and that goes to his truthfulness. So this is a person who has lied thousands of times about little things, so I would imagine there are a lot of deceptions in these tax documents.

But it would also restore a bit of normalcy to our process. There hasn't been a presidential candidate since the early 1970s who didn't release tax forms. And it just reassures the public that we understand the financial character.

And here, I think it is a character issue as well. The numbers indicate the way a person regards their role as a citizen and whether they pay their full share, I think, is important for us to know.

CAMEROTA: And last, David, do you think that reporters will ever get their hands on more recent tax returns?

JOHNSTON: Yes. If the Democrats get control of either House, Congress has a right to his tax returns. They can hold hearings and they can make them public.

And an important thing to remember here is that Donald, as a candidate, told us he was worth more than $10 billion. But as president his statement, signed under penalty of perjury, shows $1.4 billion. Somehow in the 10 weeks from the elections and taking the oath of office, $9 billion just went poof.

CAMEROTA: David Cay Johnston, Michael D'Antonio, thank you very much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In just minutes, senators will see the FBI report into Brett Kavanaugh and the accusations against him. One of the senators who led the bipartisan push for this new FBI investigation joins us next. Stay with us.

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[07:42:33] BERMAN: All right. The major breaking news this morning, the FBI report on Brett Kavanaugh is in the hands of the U.S. Senate.

In just 20 minutes, senators will be able to look at it. What we know is that Republican senators will be allowed to look at first at 8:00, and then at 9:00, Democratic senators will be able to get their first look.

Joining us now is Democratic Sen. Chris Coons from Delaware. He was part of the bipartisan effort, along with Jeff Flake of Arizona, to get this 4-day, 5-day investigation. And, Sen. Coons joins us right now.

Based on what you know -- and I know you haven't seen the report, but I know you've seen all the journalism about what went into this report -- is this what you were promised last Friday?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE), MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, John, over the last couple of days there's been a fair amount of back- and-forth about what we asked for, what was promised, and now today, we'll see what's delivered.

There were press reports last Sunday morning that were very concerning to me that the White House had a very narrow scope for this investigation -- that they would only interview four witnesses.

So I contacted my friends and colleagues on the committee, I contacted White House counsel, I sent follow-up -- a follow-up letter, and then after two more days of discussion published an editorial.

I think we should have, as President Trump said we would, an open weeklong investigation by the FBI where they would be allowed to follow all investigatory leads on the credible allegations against Judge Kavanaugh.

I'm concerned that if they never interviewed Dr. Christine Blasey Ford or her corroborating witnesses, if they never interviewed many of Judge Kavanaugh's classmates from Yale who came forward to be heard about the alleged incident with Debbie Ramirez, that this isn't the investigation I was hoping for.

But I won't prejudge it, John. I haven't seen the report yet. That will be in just a few hours.

BERMAN: We understand nine people were interviewed and that includes the people who were at the house who were named by -- allegedly at the house named by Professor Ford. Debbie Ramirez was also interviewed and it may be a couple of other people. Professor Ford was not interviewed. We now know that --

COONS: Correct.

BERMAN: -- to be the case. So given that, do you feel she would have needed to be interviewed in a thorough investigation?

COONS: Yes, because although there's lots of lawyers on the Judiciary Committee -- a number of skilled former prosecutors -- that's not the same thing as being questioned an FBI agent and then using the leads or the information developed there to pursue follow-ups.

[07:45:04] But most importantly, Dr. Ford offered corroborating evidence -- witnesses who she said could come forward and testify to the FBI that she had shared with them her story -- her side of this alleged high school assault months or years before Judge Kavanaugh was nominated for the Supreme Court. I think that would have been important for us to hear in the Senate.

BERMAN: Does this reflect on the FBI -- the failure for --

COONS: No.

BERMAN: No? Who does it reflect on?

COONS: In my view, the FBI works as the client of the White House on a background investigation and pursuant to a scope. They will -- they should have gotten -- I believe they got a document from White House counsel that interpreted the direction of the Senate Judiciary Committee and gave them a scope. So it's a combination of things.

The Senate Judiciary Committee or the Republican majority of the Senate sends something to the White House counsel who sends it to the FBI.

I know from public statements that Sens. Murkowski, and Collins, and Flake were expressing their hope that this would be a broader investigation that was followed by President Trump making repeated public statements that the FBI would be allowed to do what they do and pursue leads.

And in the end, if this is eight, nine or 10, as we've just discussed -- there's a number of vital witnesses who were not questioned.

BERMAN: Yes.

COONS: I do think though, John, this sends -- this still sends an important message.

What Sen. Flake and I were trying to do last Friday, just one day after the riveting testimony of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford and the forceful testimony of Judge Kavanaugh, was to hit the pause button and to show both Judge Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford the respect of having their allegations and their defense investigated by the FBI.

BERMAN: All right, two specifics, quickly, if I can. Republicans on the Judiciary Committee put out a tweet that said "Nowhere in any of these six FBI reports" -- they're talking about the first six background checks -- "which the committee has reviewed on a bipartisan basis, was there ever a whiff of any issue at all related in any way to inappropriate sexual behavior or alcohol abuse."

Eight Democratic members of your committee, but not you, have sent a letter saying that statement is not true. It's not true, they say, there was no whiff of alcohol abuse.

Do you know why Democrats sent this letter, and why didn't you sign it?

COONS: First, I wasn't aware of that letter until after it was sent. It was drafted and circulated to a staff counsel on the committee and then sent fairly quickly. I became aware of it, literally, last night while doing a television interview.

I am trying to get in contact with the principal author and understand exactly which issue he's referring to.

I was not a member of the Senate during 2004-2006 when Judge Kavanaugh was before the Senate and there were previous background investigations, so I'm not going to speak to it right now --

BERMAN: OK.

COONS: -- having not read the background.

I will just say that I think it is important that members of the Judiciary be heard on this issue. I have not joined every letter at all times because I'm, frankly, trying to work across the aisle on this issue.

BERMAN: And there are only 24 hours in a day and you're working about 28 hours a day right now.

Last question.

Jamie Roche, who was a Yale roommate of Brett Kavanaugh, came on T.V. last night and says he knows that Judge Kavanaugh lied under oath to the U.S. Senate when he testified about terms that he used back when he was high school and college, and when he testified about whether or not he blacked out. Jamie Roche says he's 100 percent sure that Judge Kavanaugh lied.

Is that important and is that something that should have been investigated by the FBI?

COONS: I've heard from a number of classmates of Judge Kavanaugh's who tried repeatedly to reach the FBI -- tried by reaching out to Judiciary Committee members or the White House or the FBI -- to be questioned and were not, and are very disappointed in that and concerned.

I do think this is one route for those who are concerned to get that information in front of senators. Ultimately, we are the decision- makers. An FBI investigation is a professional, credible way to get facts assessed and in front of us. But in the end, senators, themselves, have to weigh this information.

BERMAN: I --

COONS: I do -- I do think it is critical that we weigh whether or not Judge Kavanaugh was truthful to the committee because, frankly, I think both his temperament and his truthfulness are critical indicators of his fitness to serve on the Supreme Court.

BERMAN: Chris Coons of Delaware. Thanks very much for being with us -- appreciate it.

COONS: Thank you, John.

CAMEROTA: OK, John.

They say they never liked politics but they are going door-to-door to get support for their candidates ahead of the midterms. What inspired this group of women to band together and take action? That's next.

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[07:53:43] CAMEROTA: In less than five weeks before the midterms, one group of liberal women in a conservative pocket of Virginia are taking action. They call themselves the Liberal Women of Chesterfield County. They're saying that they are channeling their energy and anger, and they are mobilizing.

CNN's Bill Weir spoke with them. Hi, Bill.

BILL WEIR, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, friends. Good to see you again.

CAMEROTA: You, too.

WEIR: And we wondered as we get closer to the midterms, we know how to measure mass and speed and weight, but how do you measure anger as a political force?

I've met some women, one woman in particular, who found out that you can hate politics, you can get angry the day after the election. You can even drown your sorrows and go to a ladies march or two, but things won't change until you learn how to engage civically and teach it to your friends. And now, her followers are in the thousands.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

KIM DREW WRIGHT, FOUNDER, FOUNDER, LIBERAL WOMEN OF CHESTERFIELD COUNTY: Hi, how are you? WEIR (voice-over): Heads up, Virginia lovers. If you get a knock in the next few weeks before the midterm elections there's a pretty good chance you will meet the Liberal Women of Chesterfield County and beyond.

WEIR (on camera): How many of you were politically active before?

WRIGHT: Nope, I don't even like politics.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When is this going to end?

WEIR (voice-over): Proudly branding herself liberal is a bold move around these parts, but a mom named Kim found that you tend to get bold when you get mad.

[07:55:00] WEIR (on camera): Tell me the origin story --

WRIGHT: I was --

WEIR: -- of the Liberal Women of Chesterfield.

WRIGHT: -- drunk and angry.

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR: So many great ideas start that way -- so, yes.

WEIR (voice-over): A few days into Donald Trump's presidency, she poured some wine, opened Facebook, and called out to other women angry, frightened, and saddened by the election. She expected to meet a few but they would come out by the thousands. A persisterhood which spread across this county and beyond.

SARA GABORIK, LIBERAL WOMEN OF CHESTERFIELD COUNTY: We're neighbors and we never would have thought in a million years our neighborhood would be as liberal as it is.

WEIR (on camera): It's interesting. A lot of -- a lot of you came out of the closest, huh --

GABORIK: Yes, we did.

WEIR: -- in anger?

GABORIK: Exactly.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How did you get home? I don't remember. How'd you get there? I don't remember.

WEIR (voice-over): Their bonfire of anger is fueled by the words and deeds of Donald Trump, a renewable resource.

CHRISTY BURTON OMARZAI, LIBERAL WOMEN OF CHESTERFIELD COUNTY: I want to say to my kids, be like the president, look up to the president, follow the steps the president took, talk like a president.

WEIR (on camera): A role model.

OMARZAI: A role model. And with Trump, I can't say that to my kids.

WEIR: Do you think Kavanaugh will get confirmed?

KRISTI GLASS, LIBERAL WOMEN OF CHESTERFIELD COUNTRY: I'm terrified of it but I think that there's a high likelihood.

WEIR (voice-over): But in almost two years, they say they've organized their anger --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The main thing is to hit as many doors as you can.

WEIR: -- into dozens of chapters, teaching each other to become civics ninjas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: College kids can vote absentee.

WEIR: They helped make a doctor named Ralph Northam governor, the first Democrat to win Chesterfield in a generation.

And now, they want to help a former CIA officer named Abigail Spanberger beat a man who rode to power on Republican anger, and they won't leave him alone.

WEIR (on camera): You came in in a Tea Party way of Dave Brat who famously said these women "are in my grill."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was us.

WEIR: That was you? You were the women in his grill?

Which one's yours?

WRIGHT: He might score.

WEIR: He might score? Are you kidding?

WRIGHT: Pass it - no.

WEIR: Oh.

WRIGHT: I used to feel like it was somebody else's job and it was really a wake-up call that this is a government that's based just the citizens.

WEIR: We, the people.

WRIGHT: Right. And if you lose that then you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.

WEIR (voice-over): But life does not pause for politics, and just as her group was exploding, Kim's daughter was hospitalized and she discovered she has breast cancer.

WRIGHT: I certainly don't look at life in the same way. Rather than create a problem --

WEIR (on camera): I mean, I remember a few cycles ago, the soccer mom was this --

WRIGHT: Yes.

WEIR: -- formidable political symbol.

WRIGHT: I am a soccer mom --

WEIR: A soccer mom going through --

WRIGHT: -- literally.

WEIR: -- going through chemotherapy, which takes it --

WRIGHT: Right.

WEIR: -- to a whole different level.

WRIGHT: Right. OK, so -- I'm going to cry.

WEIR: That's OK.

WRIGHT: You know, when you get ill, you think about what's really important to you and you take stock, you know? And I could have very easily said well, oh, politics don't matter. But the fact is that they do matter.

WEIR (voice-over): So each day she puts on the wig and converts fear and anger into action. And she takes her wins one knock at a time.

WRIGHT: I thought I was the only Democrat in my neighborhood. For real, think about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I will think about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR: Powerful stuff, yes?

CAMEROTA: Right.

WEIR: Yes, and she is already just in this whirlwind of do-it- yourself politics in the last two years. They are no coaching other women's groups around the country to rise up in this way. Again, first-timers and they pushed Northam over the top by 800 votes in the last election.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

WEIR: It could be a harbinger of a blue wave. CAMEROTA: Look, it's fascinating to hear her say you can throw a fit but what does that get you. You have to channel it into some sort of action if you want.

WEIR: Yes.

BERMAN: Of course, now there are new questions about which groups will have the energy. If they will have the energy over the next 35 days or whether it will go somewhere else.

CAMEROTA: Bill, thank you.

WEIR: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Great to see that.

OK, minutes from now, senators will get their first look at the FBI's background report on Brett Kavanaugh, so let's get right to the breaking news.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: It is a busy morning here and we do have breaking news.

Good morning, it's -- welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, October fourth, 8:00 in the east.

Here's the breaking news.

The vault containing the FBI's brand new report on Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh is set to be unsealed in the next moments. The first senators will start reading it now. Republicans firsts, then Democrats.

The White House confirms that it received it overnight and read through it, and it has immediately downplayed the findings as to the sexual misconduct allegations against Brett Kavanaugh.

But how thorough was the FBI? "The Washington Post" reports the scope of the probe was significantly curtailed by the White House. The paper says FBI agents were prevented from looking at Kavanaugh's past alcohol use and whether he lied to Congress about it.

So we will hear directly from the White House in just moments.

BERMAN: So, before anyone could even analyze the report, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell started the clock on the confirmation vote. The full Senate could decide Kavanaugh's fate as early as Saturday, even though many potential witnesses say they have a story to tell but could not get the FBI's attention.

Among them is Kavanaugh's freshman roommate at Yale. Jamie Roche, in an interview exclusively with "AC 360," said that he believes that Kavanaugh lied under oath --