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Collins to Announce Vote Today; Trump Watched Kavanaugh Vote; Senator Masto on Kavanaugh Vote. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 05, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:15] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

Not the right man for the court. That's from the Alaska Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who broke with her own party to vote against Judge Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court, but she was in the minority today, especially after three other undecided senators all voted yes to move this process forward, Republicans Jeff Flake and Susan Collins and Democrat Joe Manchin. Today's procedural vote, 51- 49, sets up a final vote tomorrow. A vote that could resonate through Washington for decades. And it sounds like Senator Flake's mind is already made up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you plan to vote yes tomorrow?

SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: So unless something big changed, and I don't see what would.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The outcome did spark some outrage by protesters. These in the office of the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Let's go to our senior congressional correspondent, Manu Raju. He's up on Capitol Hill for us.

Manu, so what's next? Is there a chance that anyone changes his or her vote tomorrow?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nobody knows the answer to that question yet, which makes this for such a dramatic moment over such a consequential vote here on Capitol Hill. Susan Collins of Maine, after voting to advance the nomination to a final vote, says she will make her announcement on how she will vote on confirmation at 3:00 p.m. today. It's uncertain if she's going to stick with her initial decision to advance this nomination or if she will join her fellow Republican colleague, Lisa Murkowski, who voted against the nomination, and told reporters afterwards that Kavanaugh is, quote, not the right man for the court at this time.

Now, this comes after Senator Jeff Flake, the Arizona Republican senator, made clear that he does plan to vote yes after voting to advance the nomination, but the other big question, Joe Manchin of West Virginia. He voted to limit debate, to advance to that final vote. But the venerable Democrat has not said how he will vote ultimately on that confirmation vote tomorrow.

So we expect some comments soon from Manchin. He's expecting to put out a statement. We do expect the statement from Susan Collins.

But, Wolf, I just talked to a Republican senator who met with the Senate majority leader and he came out of that meeting saying, he flatly does not know how this will go down. Their fingers are crossed hoping they do get that 50 Republican vote, at least for 50 senators to vote yes. That would force Mike Pence to come in and break a tie. But, at the moment, uncertain as we head into that 3:00 p.m., when Susan Collins is going to make that dramatic announcement about how she'll ultimately vote, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we don't know what that announcement will be, Manu, but let's say she decides that she's going to announce she's going to vote no tomorrow. That would make it 50-50 and Mike Pence, the vice president, who also serves as president of the Senate, would have to break the tie, unless Joe Manchin, the Democrat from West Virginia, says, you know what, I'm not going to be the deciding vote on this one. I'm going to vote no as well. Is that possible?

RAJU: That's possible because Joe Manchin, I am told by one of his aides is that he particularly typically votes yes on those procedural votes on nominations. He tends to vote to break stalling tactics to get to that final vote, even if he may ultimately vote the other way on confirmation.

Now, we don't know if that's what he is deciding right now. But, Wolf, we're waiting for that statement from Joe Manchin. So critical at this moment, Wolf.

BLITZER: It certainly is. This could be very, very tense indeed.

All right, Manu, we'll get back to you. As soon as you get word, let us know.

We're told President Trump watched today's vote from his office in the White House and that the vice president, Mike Pence, watched separately from his office until it was clear he wouldn't be need to cast a tie-breaking vote today.

Our senior White House correspondent Jeff Zeleny is joining us.

Jeff, a good day for the president. So how's he reacting?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, so far it is a good day. I mean the jobs news this morning, the lowest unemployment rate since 1969. But I can tell you, the White House focus much more on that Supreme Court confirmation fight.

You said the president was watching along with everyone else on that Senate vote, a procedural vote, but so important in this moment. Now, there is a sense of optimism -- cautious optimism, I would say,

at the ultimate confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh, making him a judge to a justice, but they do not know if the vice president will be breaking a tie here or not. Mike Pence will be Washington all weekend long, but they simply do not know here what Senator Susan Collins is going to do.

The president, for all the stakes on this here, this will be a major legacy moment for him, never mind how messy the process was. He's largely a bystander at this point. There's very little he can do to influence any senator's votes. They are watching very carefully.

[13:05:10] The president, as of now, is not scheduled to appear publicly today, Wolf, taking a much softer position, I guess, if you will from earlier in the week. He was at a rally last night in Minnesota. Barely mentioned Judge Kavanaugh and only so in a positive way, did not repeat his mocking of the California professor, Christine Blasey Ford, who accused Judge Kavanaugh of drunkenly assaulting her 36 years ago. The president did not re-mention that.

He is being oddly quiet today, Wolf, sending out a couple of messages on social media, on Twitter, otherwise we have not heard from him. But I can tell you, all eyes will be on that 3:00 Senate floor when Senator Susan Collins finally reveals how she intends to vote.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, that will be very, very significant. Of course, we'll have live coverage of that during the 3:00 p.m. Eastern hour.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

Again, the Senate will have its final vote on Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation tomorrow.

Joining us now is Senator Catherine Cortez Masto. She's a Democrat from Nevada.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us.

SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D), NEVADA: Hello, Wolf. Happy to be here with you.

BLITZER: All right, so you've said you'll vote against Judge Kavanaugh. You voted no on this procedural vote today.

What do you think of the decision on the floor today, especially from Senators Collins, Flake, your fellow Democrat Joe Manchin, who all voted to allow this motion to proceed?

MASTO: Well, first of all, you can see that every senator is struggling, right? This is a difficult issue. It's a tough one and an important one. And I think that's what you saw on the floor today. I am curious, like many. I'm waiting to hear what Susan Collins has to say at 3:00. I thought Lisa's comments about this being about bigger than one nominee or one man. This is about our institutions and the fairness and who's the right person to sit on the United States Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, for a lifetime appointment, you know, that weighs into all of what we have to make or determinations that we have to think about when we are making this decision.

BLITZER: Yes, Lisa Murkowski voting no today, the Republican senator from Alaska.

Would you anticipate, based on what you saw today, the same totals tomorrow, 51 in favor, 49 opposed?

MASTO: You know, I don't know. I -- we've seen it go -- I've seen it go both ways, Wolf, the short time that I've been here. Some will stick with their votes and some may change them. We've seen that happen on the Affordable Care Act vote at the end of the day.

You know, I think right now, it really is a concern for many of us that we should be looking at this to get the right person. You know, this is bigger than one individual. This is a lifetime appointment. And, you know, I have said I'm not supporting Judge Kavanaugh, not only because I disagree with his judicial philosophy, but what I saw from somebody who was already a sitting appellate judge, remember, he sits on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the temperament, lack of temperament, the lack of impartiality that he displayed, I thought was just, to me, a disqualifying factor. That's not somebody that should be sitting on the highest court.

BLITZER: Was this at all a difficult vote for you today?

MASTO: Oh, I think all of us. You know, this was a -- and rightfully so. The -- we -- I take this very seriously, this advice and consent, particularly when it comes down to a nominee who's going to sit on the highest court of the land, who is going to have an impact on the very issues we all deal with and care about, from women's health care, to worker's rights, to discrimination, to whether or not the president is subject to the rule of law here in this country. I mean there's so much at stake. So we should be taking it seriously.

But, you know, part of this is, we should have a full vetting. We should not fast track this with some artificial deadlines set by the Republican leadership. This should be an open process. We have access to all of the information, not limited like we have seen, and then there should be a fullback ground investigation.

Listen, I was the attorney general for Nevada. I was a prosecutor 10 years. I looked at the most recent background investigation conducted by the FBI and it was limited. There's no doubt in my mind from what I saw, because I still had questions after reviewing it. Where's the follow-up? Why weren't these people questioned?

So I know that, unfortunately, there was not full vetting here. And I think that does a disservice to this country, particularly, when it comes to trying to find the right person to sit on the United States Supreme Court.

BLITZER: What's your message to your fellow Democrat, Joe Manchin of West Virginia? As you know, he's in a tough re-election race right now. In a few weeks, West Virginians are going to have to vote.

He voted in favor of moving ahead with the procedural vote today. He says it's -- he hasn't announced how he will vote tomorrow. If you had a chance to speak with him, sit down privately, what would you say to him?

MASTO: You know, it is a tough decision for all of us. And what I have said is, this is -- it is tough because you have a credible, credible woman coming -- Dr. Ford coming forward and courageous enough to come forward without any benefit to her. She was credible. She was poised. She answered every question.

[13:10:19] And then you have, obviously, the nominee, Brett Kavanaugh, coming forward. And we saw his response and how he was belligerent and evasive. And that doesn't help as we are trying to really uncover the truth so that we can make a decision. And I think that's what this was about.

And so for purposes of my colleagues, yes, it's a tough decision. But at the end of the day for me, it is about the right person that has what I just said, those qualities. Not only the right temperament can be impartial, that really has the ability to be the right person there.

And, Wolf, keep this in mind, there are so many qualified people out there. There are many qualified people that we can find, that we can work together and find that right person. And that's why I think this is bigger than any one nominee. And that's why I've said this process has been broken from the beginning and we've got to get back to a point where we're working together with the White House to find the right person to sit on the Supreme Court.

BLITZER: Senator Catherine Cortez Masto, Democrat of Nevada, thanks so much for joining us.

MASTO: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Up next, with the midterm elections just over a month away, how will all of this drama play at the polls?

Plus, Brett Kavanaugh's closing argument to undecided voters behind the judge's decision to pin a last ditch op-ed on the eve of the voting today.

And all eye eyes on Senator Susan Collins. She'll make her big announcement on how she'll vote on Kavanaugh during the 3:00 p.m. Eastern hour. (INAUDIBLE) of that.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:11] BLITZER: We're roughly an hour and a half away from learning what Brett Kavanaugh's chances are of getting finally confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court. During the 3:00 Eastern Hour, on the Senate floor, Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, plans to revealing her final decisions on the Supreme Court nominee. Senator Collins was one of four undecided senators before a critical vote earlier today on whether to advance Kavanaugh's nomination for a final vote tomorrow. Only one of these four senators, Lisa Murkowski, Republican of Alaska, ended up voting no during that process. Senators Flake and Manchin voting yes, giving all of us a very strong indication as to how they will finally vote tomorrow.

Senator Collins also voted yes, but her final decision is still pretty much up in the air, at least until the 3:00 p.m. Eastern Hour. We'll have special live coverage of her remarks on the Senate floor.

Joining us now, our political director, David Chalian, our senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, our Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue, and our senior political analyst Mark Preston.

You know, a lot of us thought Lisa Murkowski, Nia, and Susan Collins, you know, they work very closing together, both Republicans, both independent, they would at least vote the same way. That didn't happen today.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, it didn't happen today. We'll see if it ends up happening. We'll have to wait until what she says at 3:00 p.m., what her statement is.

But, you're right, they have, in some ways, been in lockstep in big votes. You think about health care, for instance. They were the two moderate GOP senators to not vote for reforming health care.

What's interesting here is they are two moderate GOP women. And those are the women, in many ways, that we're looking at in terms of the midterms and thinking about what they're going to do, particularly in these suburban districts, in House districts in particular. So it would be interesting if, in the end, they sort of vote together, vote no, and whether or not that tells us anything broader about this bigger population of moderate GOP women and how they're feeling about this.

BLITZER: What are the chances -- David, this is a tough question -- that of the three undecided senators who have all voted to allow this procedure to advance today, this vote today, 51-49, we're talking about Susan Collins, Jeff Flake, Joe Manchin, what are the chances they flip and announce they're voting against final confirmation of his Supreme Court nomination tomorrow?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, Jeff Flake, I think the chances are extraordinarily low. He already told reporters today that he expects to be a yes vote and he expects Kavanaugh to get confirmed.

BLITZER: Unless something happens or whatever it was he --

CHALIAN: Exactly. That was where he was at. So I would be, I think, the most surprised if he --

BLITZER: I would say he looks like a definite, Flake.

CHALIAN: Yes. We're all going to tune in, in an hour and 42 minutes, to see if, indeed, Susan Collins has an argument to make, and some statement to make, as to why she -- if she decided to flip, why she would be voting no, why she wanted to move on procedurally to get to this place.

I don't know how to rate the chances, Wolf. Susan Collins clearly wanted to carve out a moment in time to get all the attention on her to make a statement about this. So she's going to have that moment now at 3:00. So we'll wait to see what happens there.

And then -- you know, and then, if Susan Collins is to flip, I think the big question mark then becomes, does Joe Manchin want to be the 50th decisive vote?

BLITZER: Right.

CHALIAN: The only Democrat. And he is going to be under an enormous amount of pressure from Democrats in Washington to flip with Susan Collins, if she flips. But I think he's even perhaps under greater pressure at home to support Judge Kavanaugh.

BLITZER: And, Mark Preston, explain why he's under so much pressure in West Virginia right now to vote in favor of confirmation.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, and I think David explained this earlier today. We were talking about this. You're talking about a different electorate in Vest Virginia that we're seeing in some of these other states where there are red state Democrats who have already come out and publically said that they're going to vote against Brett Kavanaugh. It's all political calculations.

[13:20:14] I mean in -- look, there may be part of Joe Manchin, if he decided -- if he decides to support Mr. Kavanaugh, you know, in the final vote, there may be something inside of Joe Manchin that says, listen, I wasn't convinced that he was guilty. Not that she's not telling the truth, but that there wasn't enough there, which is what we're going to hear from all the Republicans. Manchin might be of that mind set, but politically he can't alienate the electorate in West Virginia.

BLITZER: Does it make a difference -- and, Ariane, you've covered the Supreme Court for a long time, if he's confirmed tomorrow, 50-50 with Mike Pence breaking a tie breaker, or if it's 51-49?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, keep in mind, the vice president has never had to step in, even for a federal judgeship, right? So that would be --

BLITZER: Yes, this would be a historic first if Pence is brought in to break the tie.

DE VOGUE: Right. And the last time we had something this close was back in 1881. So going into the court, if this happened, he still has this cloud under him. Keep in mind, he didn't want that FBI investigation initially, right, but now that it's come out, it may seem that -- there was no corroboration. Maybe that helps a little bit to remove this cloud. But once he gets on the bench, if he does get on the bench, that cloud is still there and people are going to continually question, for instance, what if some of the Mueller stuffer or other investigations go up to the Supreme Court, after he was so political in that opening statement, there are going to be people who are continuously bringing back the political nature of that statement that he gave on Thursday.

BLITZER: You know, it's -- if he is confirmed, it's a big win for the Republicans, it's a big win for the president of the United States. And as David pointed out and others have pointed out, take a look at the job -- jobs numbers that came out today, 3.7% unemployment in the month of September.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: The lowest since 1969, 49 years. And you know the president is gloating about that.

HENDERSON: Yes, I think he tweeted about that earlier today. This, if -- if he gets on the bench, this is probably the most important week of his presidency in terms of what it means, in terms of what it means for the midterms, and also in terms of what it means for his legacy, right? If Kavanaugh gets on the bench, it's a culmination of a decades' long fight among Republicans to control the courts and it will matter for 30 or 40 years on many, many issues, abortion, voting rights, gerrymandering and redistricting, gun rights, the death penalty, all sorts of issues that are going to come before this court. Obamacare as well. That's going to be a big issue, too.

And, you know, at some point, Donald Trump said, you know, folks are going to get sick of winning. This week, that might actually be true, because there's been a lot of w's since they --

BLITZER: A lot of Democrats -- we're just assuming there was going to be a blue wave in a few weeks in the midterm elections. But if this nomination is confirmed, another conservative is on the U.S. Supreme Court, not for four years or eight year, but maybe for 30 years. It's a lifetime appointment, 35 years. That's a big, political gain for the Republicans. And the economy, James Carville once said, it's the economy stupid. The economy's in pretty good shape right now and these numbers are very impressive.

CHALIAN: There's no doubt about that.

So, for the bulk of the last year and a half, since Donald Trump has become president, if you look at politics in America, we've seen this supercharged enthusiasm on the Democratic side. We've seen it in special election after special election, turnout numbers across all the primary season. So we've seen Democrats so excited and enthusiastic to sort of deliver a report card to Donald Trump two years into his administration.

Republicans -- every Republican strategist I've talked to for the last year and a half really concerned about complacency among their voters, which is natural when you are in power. Now, they -- if they get Kavanaugh on the court, this economy, this is a shot in the arm for Republicans to feel good about this. I'm not suggesting that all of a sudden a blue wave doesn't happen. I think this Kavanaugh episode has been terrible for Republicans in the House landscape that Nia was talking about. With white college educated women, suburbanites, exactly where Republicans need to hang on to seats if they want to hang on to their House majority.

But on the Senate map, Wolf, which so much of that is playing out in deep red states, getting that shot in the arm for Republicans, that keeps Josh Hawley in the hunt in Missouri, that keeps Mike Braun in the hunt in Indiana, that keeps Matt Rosendale in the hunt in Montana. So those Democratic incumbents, in those deep red states, they would have loved the apparent -- you know, to have no parody and enthusiasm. They're not loving the sea (ph) that Republicans are now psyched about this good week that the president very well may be, you know, capping off tomorrow with a final vote.

BLITZER: Joe Manchin's in a tough re-election race in West Virginia, as we know as well.

CHALIAN: He is indeed.

BLITZER: All right, everybody stand by, there's more.

[13:24:57] How Brett Kavanaugh could shift the ideology of the highest court in the land. Stay with us. Our special coverage continues.

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BLITZER: The current Supreme Court justices will be directly impacted by Brett Kavanaugh's expected appointment if he is confirmed tomorrow, but traditionally they refrain from commenting on the nomination process.

[13:30:01] Our Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic, is joining us right now. Joan's covered the Supreme Court for some 25 years.

Share some insight on how the justices are viewing all the drama of the past few weeks, Joan.