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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Nikki Haley Stuns All by Resigning; Much Speculation About Possible Reasons; Trump Seems Comfortable with Her Resignation, Basic Policy Will Not Change; CNN Interviews Wife of Missing Interpol Chief.
Aired October 9, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HANNAH JONES, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome. I'm Hannah Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani. Tonight, why did she do it and why now? There's
speculation of Nikki Haley's resignation. Almost no one saw this coming. The ambassador to the United Nations announced she was calling it quits
while sitting beside the President. It was a very warm affair with Mr. Trump praising her and saying she could come back any time and in any
capacity. Even though he's putting on a positive face, a positive spin, there's no question that the timing of this resignation is far from ideal
coming, of course, just weeks before critical midterm elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's done a fantastic job and we have done a fantastic job together. We're in the process of solving
a lot of problems. We're all happy for you in one way and hate to lose you. Hopefully you'll be coming back at some point but maybe a different
capacity. You can have your pick.
NIKKI HALEY, U.N. AMBASSADOR: There is no personal reason. I think it's important for government officials to understand when it's time to step
aside and I have given everything I've got these last eight years and I do think that sometimes it's good to rotate in other people who can put that
same energy and power into it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Mr. Trump says that Nikki Haley hold him about six months ago that she wanted to take some time off, maybe at the end of the year. But sources
tell CNN that Trump learned of Haley's decision just last week. Virtually the rest of the administration was blind sided today including Secretary of
State Mike Pompeo. We have a team of CNN reporters and analysts live on the story tonight as you'd expect and joined by White House correspondent
Kaitlan Collins, senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth, political analyst David Gergen and global affairs analyst Aaron David Miller. Welcome to you
all. Kaitlan, first, at the White House, we were all surprised and seem it is only person not caught off guard was the President who said he knew six
months ago. How's it reverberating around D.C.?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We know that last week was when Nikki Haley did say I'm going the leave at the end of
the year after President Trump says about six months ago roughly she told him she was considering leaving at some point. But it seems that President
Trump was the only one that knew and senior staffers in this administration were totally unaware that Nikki Haley was ready to depart and now. Until
that announcement came out this morning that she had offered the resignation to the President and he accepted it. They raise questions of
was she trying to get out ahead of the midterms? What is the timing with this? We just heard of Secretary of State Pompeo coming up to the
microphones, the White House announced he would make some remarks and expected him to say something about the departure. He noted that she was
leaving but he's one of the key players who wasn't aware she was going to leave the administration so a lot of questions about that, a lot of
questions about what Nikki Haley's standing in the administration was by the time she left because though she and President Trump used to be quite
close and he would go to her seeking out advice on foreign affairs, that was when he had Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and H.R. McMaster both who
he butted heads with and now with Mike Pompeo and John Bolton, we have seen Nikki Haley's status in this administration diminish because of that. There
are questions of what factor that had into it and the personal finances but this is certainly an announcement that shocked a lot of people in the west
JONES: Kaitlan, thank you very much. Let's get to Richard Roth at the U.N. for us there. Were people blind sided there, Richard, her counterparts?
What about the Secretary-General?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Surprise is the word and the spokesman for the secretary-general said he is finding out on a plane
through the media, the two have worked closely together. Despite criticism inside the U.N. of perhaps Haley's brass knuckles approach at times she was
seen as a steadying force with President Trump to avoid more slashing of the U.N. budget for more diplomatic rough shod that the Trump
administration might want to do at the international community. She was well liked. The programs and ideas that she was pushing on behalf of Donald
Trump weren't and the U.S. is the big boy at the United Nations and countries go along as best they can. Haley was embarrassed at times when
she and the United States were alone in certain votes in the Security Council or the General Assembly about the U.S. embassy move, things like
[14:05:00] I don't think I thought or others -- no one thought she would last four years here. She struck me as someone with a plan. We'll know in
the future what the plan is. Yes, she probably had more free running room under former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. She told Donald Trump at the
beginning I don't want to be a wallflower taking orders. She wanted to have an impact so the word is that perhaps she was cut off somewhat.
JONES: For the meantime, though, she said she'll stick around to the new year and wait for the transition to the successor. Thank you very much,
indeed. Let's talk about the impact of ambassador Haley's resignation and, of course, the legacy she is going to be leaving behind. CNN's global
affairs analyst Aaron David Miller with me, as well. Good to see you. First of all, I want to ask you about the reasons she's given for going. She says
she wants to take a break, she is a believer in term limits, as well. Do you buy it?
AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I mean, look. I don't think there's a human being on planet earth with the exception of Nikki Haley who
knows precisely why she decided to leave at this time. I read the letter of resignation very carefully. Term limits, the fact that transition of
government to the private sector is not a step down and Donald Trump is a businessman. She describes him. Should appreciate that fact. I can't --
everybody needs an explanation before they -- to themselves before they make a significant move. And if she's not a serious candidate and basically
ruled that out any elected office in 20, I got to figure having worked for four or five administrations that part of the logic was that the job
literally had ceased to be as energizing and as fun as it was. You have to understand, she had a year of an extraordinarily almost unprecedented and
privileged position in the administration, not only charisma, well liked by the President, but the fact is there was the Tillerson vacuum and you
didn't have a national security adviser. You had two. In the first year. Who focused much on New York. Now, you have a very strong Secretary of
State and I might add a national security adviser who has been a U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and knows the bureaucratic game. I got to
figure that the latitude, the flexibility, the capacity to play the role which was probably fun, a lot of fun for her and impactful, much more
constrained as it will be as I might add for anybody who inherits that position. There will be no more 2.0 Nikki Haleys in New York.
JONES: She touted the successes giving that press conference. Even in her resignation letter to President Trump she talked about having taken the
post on the basis of being able to speak freely and, I mean, in terms of her legacy, Aaron David Miller, she's kind of done that even if she wasn't
always on the side of the President.
MILLER: She has. We have had strong U.S. ambassadors before. Jean Kirkpatrick is perhaps one of the strongest. Critical time. But look. If
you believe that toughening American policy toward Iran in terms of walking from the nuclear agreement was a good idea, if you believe that defunding
allies and particularly with respect to Arab/Israeli peace making, if you believe that opening an embassy in Jerusalem is a good idea and if you
believe that an exclusive relationship with Israel is the appropriate course of action, not just a special relationship, which is critically
important to American national interest, then, in fact, she can claim a terrific legacy. I'm not entirely persuaded, however, that those policies
which were not hers, they were the President's, were frankly al so much in the American national interest.
JONES: A lot of has been made already about the potentially destabilizing impact that her resignation could have on the Trump administration. We
heard from Mike Pompeo, saying that she's been fantastic. Congratulating her and wishing her well. But many others to hear from as well presumably
over the course of the days in the states. What do you think the impact will be in terms of losing a high-profile female moderating voice for
MILLER: All the qualities are important and we need -- we clearly need more women in government and in influential positions in government.
[14:10:00] Having been a failed Middle East peacemaker for 20-plus years, we could use all the help we could get but I don't see her leaving as earth
shattering, destabilizing or, frankly, not even that consequential. In large part because you have a willful President who's set policies in
motion and you have two men who are perfectly capable, more than that, as earth shattering, destabilizing or, frankly, not even that consequential.
In large part because you have a willful President who's set policies in motion and you have two men who are perfectly capable, more than that, of
carrying out the President's policies. So, I'm not sure at this point in the Trump administration, 600-plus days in that Nikki Haley's leaving is
going to have all that much of an impact.
JONES: Donald Trump certainly left the door open for her return some point. Thanks very much.
MILLER: Always a pleasure.
JONES: The timing of this has got top officials, of course, scratching their heads and we turn to CNN's senior political analyst David Gergen, he
has advised four U.S. Presidents in the past. Joins us now. David, great to see you.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.
JONES: We are 28 days out of the midterm elections. Why do it now and risk disrupting the vote?
GERGEN: Well, I don't think she's going to disrupt the vote all that much. But I do think it -- you know, two ways to look at it. It's an opportunity
for the president to appoint another woman if he could find the right person to actually be positive for him. It's too early to say it impacts
the midterms and fair on her for some notice but -- and so that he can play it out and get the right person appointed and confirmed. You have to go
through a confirmation process on this. So, listen. I think the bigger, bigger question today is not how it affects policy. I do think that in
terms of policy she has been a moderating force. She has been sort of they put two heavyweights to counter act her and Bolton at the national security
council and then Pompeo at the State Department. Two hardliners so in some ways a woman caught in middle from the Trump administration pushing in one
direction and the country she is -- diplomats talking to at the U.N. talking fiercely in another direction and she's had to balance those two
and I mentioned it's 24/7 job and she is ready to give it up. I think that there's a personal finance issue here that is not insignificant. You know?
She's been a public employee for a number of years. She and her husband do not have -- they have more debt than income at this point. I would think
that by taking a year out or more -- because this is not the last stop on the public stage.
GERGEN: There's a possibility to rebuild the finances, especially if she is on the lecture circuit.
JONES: Yes. She's talked about that already and the resignation letter of going back to the private sector as well. I want to ask you David about the
theater then of what we saw in the oval office earlier on today. I got the impression it's her decision delivered on his terms. Would you agree with
GERGEN: I do. It's very much her decision and she wants to keep the door open for coming back. I think the big thing going into the midterms is he
does have to now show a positive attitude toward women that has not been coming through. The latest polls that came out to CNN poll just coming out
asking about in effect the approval going forward, who should control the house of representatives? Women were opposed to men, there was a 30 percent
lead among women over men and who should control the house of representatives. That's a huge gap. We haven't seen anything like that in -
- that I can remember and so which means that the Donald Trump and his team now got to scramble and Nikki Haley would have been part of that but I
think they have to find another woman. The rumors are passing around Washington, they're just rumors at this stage but one of the people he
might be considering is his own daughter Ivanka Trump as a successor. You saw that Nikki Haley today in public went out of the way to praise Ivanka
Trump and her husband Jared Kushner as essentially two of the unsung heroes on the foreign policy side.
JONES: Yes. Interesting to see what develops with that. He says he'll make a decision in the next couple of weeks. One other woman who he's come up
for a long time in the past and still to this day is Hillary Clinton of course.
[14:15:00] She's been speaking out and to Christiane Amanpour in the last 24 hours specifically about Kavanaugh, Justice Kavanaugh, and how it played
out with the appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court. I want to play for you what she had to say about that and the state of justice in the U.S. at the
moment and then what Donald Trump had to say in response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: What was done last night in the White House was a political rally. It further undermined the image and
integrity of the court. And that troubles me greatly. It saddens me because our judicial system has been viewed as one of the main pillars of our
constitutional government. So, I don't know how people are going to react to it. I think given our divides it will pretty much fall predictably
between those for and those who are against.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your response to Hillary Clinton saying last night's swearing in of Judge Kavanaugh was more political event than
TRUMP: I guess that's why she lost. She doesn't get it. She never did. I knew that a long time ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: David, Hillary Clinton saying that it troubles her what she's seeing in the U.S. at the moment. I want to ask you whether it should be troubling
to us that it troubles her. Is she sort of relevant anymore or with the kind of rise of the me too movement and women in politics particularly in
America and the run-up to the midterms, should Donald Trump and the rest of us pay much more attention to the likes of what Hillary Clinton has to say?
GERGEN: Well, I do think that, unfortunately, because I think to a significant degree unfairly she has been sort of pushed off to the side and
Democrats are not focusing on her. I do think in the next few months she and her husband bill Clinton are going to be doing some public forums
together and they've got a lot to say. If you get past who the messenger is to the message I think Hillary Clinton's message about last night was on
target and we in the past Presidents have often had ceremonies at the White House for a new justice to the court. The President has just selected. But
they've been during the daytime. This was prime time. On television. And it was clearly a political event. And the point she's making which is right is
the degree to which the supreme court justice is seen as an arm of the White House as an appointee of a particular President does undermine the
legitimacy of the court. And when Donald Trump used that occasion last night to go on and criticize the #MeToo movement and essentially said that
-- she flat-out said to Kavanaugh, sir, you have been proven innocent. You have been proven innocent. That's just not true. That's not what happened.
And so, that politicized the event far more than it should have. Hillary's message as I say is I think on target but she is a messenger not there yet.
She's got a rebuilding job to do over time.
JONES: David, I just have one final question to you because we have seen comings and goings in the Trump administration and the obviously latest
Nikki Haley. Yet in the last week it was, you know, seemingly a very good week for Donald Trump, as well. We have one graphic I think we can bring up
showing the number of people who have left the administration. I mean, it is quite unprecedented. Would you agree?
GERGEN: Oh, absolutely. And I do think it's meant -- herky, jerky quality of policy making. North Korea, you know, the administration's been all over
the place on where do things stand with the North Koreans and work with China and that sort of thing. I do think it's fair to point out that not at
the top political appointee level but the mid levels and lower levels there are numerous reports of people in the White House that it feels like more
traditional White Houses. People at the desk getting serious work done. But at the top and especially with this Mueller investigation still now hanging
over the administration and that's -- may well come to a head after the midterms, there's more things to come and more departures more than likely
before this is over.
JONES: No doubt talking about all of them, as well. Thank you, sir.
GERGEN: Thank you.
[14:20:00] JONES: All right. Still to come, tonight, a CNN exclusive interview with the wife of Meng Hongwei, the former head of Interpol who
vanished after returning to China.
Also, ahead, the latest twist in the U.K.'s Novichok poisonings. A website said it found the real identity of the second Russian suspect. Stay with
JONES: Welcome back. One of the top officials is in custody and now his wife is speaking out. The former head of Interpol is being held. His wife
tells CNN she hasn't told her children that he is missing because she, quote, doesn't want to break their hearts. Going to take you live to Lyon
in France. Melissa Bell conducted the interview with Meng Hongwei's wife. The wife very much taking a huge risk with her own security speaking out at
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Look at how tight lipped of organizations remained throughout this issuing a couple of fairly
meek statements about the man who was after all the organization's head until just a couple of weeks ago. We spoke today to Grace Meng and found a
woman alone, frightened being guarded by French police and who has yet to find a lawyer who will help her and who wants help from the international
community. Hannah, this is a woman that decided to take on China single handedly and explained to us to begin with she tried to keep it from her
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE MENG, WIFE OF MENG HONGWEI, FORMER INTERPOL CHIEF: No TV for them from daddy lost. No TV. So maybe because they are already seven years old
maybe they can feel something happened but say -- think mommy is crying. I told them, mommy have a cold.
BELL: You are the first wife who's done this. Nobody normally speaks out.
BELL: How do you find the courage? Why are you doing this?
MENG: Because I do these things for my children, for all of them, for all of China's children, for all of China's wife. For all of the China's daddy,
mommy. Also, I know some day the mommy can't find their son. I have this responsibility to help all the people. I must be changed the old wing
China. All the ink dark. You know my heart. You know my emotion. You can imagine.
[14:25:00] They always make some under the table in the dark room to make the deal. My husband and i, we are bright. We are open. We are sunshine.
Because I trust ourselves. We are clear.
BELL: Your husband has been taken by Chinese authorities for political reasons.
MENG: I think I only can think this reason. Otherwise I can't find the -- any other explain.
BELL: What is your worry for him?
MENG: Yes. I really -- I worry about his life. I do not know if he's alive or what happened. Nobody can tell me.
BELL: Do you think you will see your husband again?
MENG: I don't know. But I miss him very much. That's why I always wake up at night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: You'll remember, Hannah, Grace first raised the alarm. She received that cryptic text message of her husband with an emoji of a knife. She
waited for the call that he'd asked her to wait for and it was a call from a stranger, warning her that there were two teams out to target her that
convinced her that he was really in danger and she was, as well. It was then she went to French authorities and another interesting thing. During
the interlude that we had with her, she had three phone calls from the Chinese consulate here in France, three times explaining she would not
accept to see them and that she was accompanied by a lawyer and by the international media. That is woman who fears for her life and feels that
she can only speak to Chinese authorities while the world is watching, Hannah.
JONES: Yes. Very brave of her, indeed, to speak out at all under these sorts of circumstances. And the reason that the French authorities are
involved to start off with, I guess, Interpol is based there in Lyon where you are. Are the French authorities involved or in cooperation with the
Chinese authorities or is this very much on Beijing now?
BELL: Well, again, we are not hearing terribly much about that. I feel that what we're waiting to hear from more from the Chinese authorities. More
than what we heard today. We heard, of course, that statement about the fact that he was being held on charges of having taken bribes by the very
ministry of which he was a vice minister. Beyond that, we have what grace tells us and that is pretty much all. She explained that she had the help,
the protection of the policemen with her. There were two accompanied her to the interview and that you felt was really all. You felt there's confusion.
You felt that there was a great deal of fear and you felt, also, this was a woman not being helped a great deal.
JONES: And huge concern, of course, over their children, as well. Melissa bell live for us reporting with an exclusive report and interview, with
Grace Meng, thank you.
Still to come tonight on the program, she spoke her mind and not afraid to ruffle feathers in the halls of the U.N. live to Washington for more on the
shock resignation of Nikki Haley.
A hurricane heading for the U.S. Gulf Coast is expected to get stronger before it makes landfall tomorrow. We're tracking Hurricane Michael. Now
being called a monstrous storm.
[14:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Back to our top story now. The shocking resignation of the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley. President Trump may have been
all smiles while making the announcement earlier on but a CNN source said the news blind sided the White House and caught officials completely off
The president said that Haley had advised him several months ago that she wanted to wrap up her time at the U.N. pretty soon. But we want to look at
how Haley's resignation will impact the U.S. On the world stage now.
So joining me is CNN's military and diplomatic analyst, John Kirby, he's a former U.S. State Department spokesman. Also joining us CNN senior
diplomatic correspondent, Michelle Kosinski. Welcome to you both.
John Kirby, to you first, I'm wondering about with Nikki Haley's departure, what that means for the balance in terms of the U.S. national security
team? Is there now a power vacuum or has that moderate voice disappeared?
REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Well, it's too soon to tell. I think it's really going to depend on who the
president chooses to replace Nikki Haley at the U.N. She certainly has been a moderating influence on him. She has gotten along well with other federal
agencies. Secretary Mattis today was just lauding her performance as did Secretary Pompeo.
So she has been a good team player in that regard. Although, we have heard reports of some tension in previous weeks and months. It really is going to
depend on who the president selects.
I would say that while certainly advantageous for him to select somebody with foreign policy experience, she has proven the fact that you can do
this as did Samantha Power without a whole lot of foreign policy experience going into it.
It really is about working inside the bureaucracy of a huge multi-lateral organization like the U.N. and making sure that the priorities and the
prerogatives of the administration get fairly represented.
JONES: Michelle Kosinski at the state department for us. And we're hearing all the reports, at least, that everyone was blindsided by this. Is that
true that the president could have known months ago but just kept it to himself?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Well, from sources within the White House, that seems unlikely. According to them, she
tendered this resignation a week ago. Her timing, I mean, you know, there's lots of talk among sources close to her that she didn't -- she knew from
the beginning she didn't want to stay maybe much longer than two years, but with Kavanaugh last week, the upcoming midterms, she felt that this was a
There's also been reporting out of the White House from sources there that she felt like her role could be changing because of the new national
security adviser John Bolton taking a very, very big role and also secretary of state, Mike Pompeo being Trump's right-hand man, taking over
North Korea, as well.
So she felt the timing was right for whatever reason. Likely, a combination of all of these factors. But it is true that for some reason Pompeo and
Bolton did not know about this. And we're told by one source that they were blindsided by this.
So, Did Trump have some inkling months ago? Maybe. Maybe in some private conversation that he had only with Nikki Haley. But for whatever reason,
they chose not to share that. Even with other very, very close advisors. I mean, his key members of the administration. And in a sense Pompeo is, you
know, Haley's counterpart.
So, why did they not have that conversation? That is unknown and why if she was thinking about this for a while, why was this timing today as abrupt as
You can see her in that setting with Trump, I mean, wanting to control this narrative, so much praise. Wanting to praise other members of the
administration and the president's daughter and son-in-law. So she wanted to have that very nice outgoing, but you can't get away from the fact that
the timing was so abrupt that the national security adviser and secretary of state did not know. And right now that is an unanswered question as to
JONES: Yes. And John Kirby, looking at what the world -- America's standing on the world stage now, it looks like and how rest of Nikki Haley and
Donald Trump's international partners are going to be responding to this, we heard earlier from the U.N. that Antonio Guterres, for example, the
secretary general, he didn't know about it, none of her ambassadorial counterparts seemed to know about it beforehand.
Does this damage America on the global stage or does this actually sort of keep everyone on in the suspense?
KIRBY: The surprise of her departure certainly doesn't help us on the world stage, but I think many of our allies and partners and nations around the
world are used to unpredictability from this administration and frankly from a very selfish and unilateral look at the world.
So I don't know that this is going to change any of the viewpoints about American diplomacy around the U.N. or around the world, but it certainly is
going to reinforce the notion that this administration doesn't always speak with one voice on foreign policy and it has a little trouble getting its
JONES: Yes. And the final word to you, Michelle. Everyone's going to be talking about who the successor and may well be. What's the word on the
state department at the moment?
KOSINSKI: I mean, it's all speculation at this point. Ivanka Trump being one of those name, just laughed off the suggestion of it. There's Dina
Powell, the former deputy national security advisor who left to go back to Goldman Sachs seems happy to be out of the administration.
[14:35:00] So there's a big question mark on that. Would she want to come back into the administration? All kinds of talk as to who this could be.
But at this point, it's just too early to know.
But is it as true that the president is going to make this decision within the next two to three weeks? You know, they're having those discussions
likely in the White House right now.
JONES: I bet they are. Michelle Kosinski, John Kirby, my thanks to both of you for joining us.
KIRBY: Thank you.
JONES: Now, residents along the U.S. gulf coast are bracing for what could be the most destructive storm to make landfall there in decades. These
images of space show Hurricane Michael swirling west of Cuba.
The governor of Florida says it's a "monstrous storm" that could bring total devastation to some areas. Flooding from the tropical system that
spawned the hurricane has already killed 13 people in Central America.
Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is following the storm for us. Allison, I was hearing eerier that the power infrastructure is expected to be hit far
worse by Michael than it was by Florence this time, is that right?
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Because the winds are expected to be stronger. And the interesting thing is, yes, you always assume you're
going to have the power outages along the coast where there'll be really hard hit.
But in this particular example, you're also going to have some areas pretty far inland that will also be impacted by the power outages.
But right now, Hurricane Michael winds at 175 kilometers per hour, moving north at about 19 kilometers per hour. So it's got a pretty good forward
speed. That's what you like to see. That prevents what we have in Florence from happening where it just sits over the same spot day after day. That is
not expected with this storm.
Hurricane hunters did go out and investigate the storm. They did find those wind speeds up around that 165-kilometer per hour range. But we expect the
storm to intensify a little bit more as it moves out over the very warm waters of the gulf.
Almost all of these models are in very good agreement about where this storm is expected to not only make landfall but go from there. I mean, if
you look at this really finite line here, this is very good agreement this far out.
With that said, that is where we expect the track to take the storm. We expect the landfall to be somewhere along the Florida Panhandle likely
Wednesday afternoon or early evening local time there in Florida. It is expected that this will be a category three hurricane at the time it makes
Storm surge is also going to be a big concern. Everywhere where you see this purple shaded area basically from Apalachicola over to Cedar Key,
about 2.5 to 3.5 meters.
Other places like Panama City, about 1.5 to 2.5 meters. But even a city that is effectively very -- essentially very far away, a city like Tampa,
Florida can still expect to get maybe upwards to say about 1.5 meters total of storm surge.
Then you also have the rainfall. The good news is we're not expecting the same rainfall totals we had with Florence because this system will move
pretty quickly. But with that said, you still have widespread amounts of around 100 to 150 millimeters of rain.
Some areas could pick up slightly more than that, especially along those coastlines where you'll end up getting some of those really intense
The key thing to note here is, say, like North Carolina and South Carolina. We still have several river gauges that are above flood stage from
Florence. They're not back to normal levels and now we're going to be adding even more rain on top of that.
And again, as we mentioned, the wind is going to be a big concern not just along the coastline but also inland. Cities like Atlanta, Georgia, and
Columbia, South Carolina, may still experience some pretty significant power outages, maybe even say, similar numbers to what they will get along
the coastline, say, for a city like Apalachicola.
JONES: And, Allison, we heard President Trump earlier on saying that FEMA prepared for this, they got all the preparations in place. When it came to
Florence and other hurricanes, we've seen mandatory evacuations. Have there been mandatory evacuations already called for where Michael is going to
CHINCHAR: I think the key thing here to notice the difference was with Florence is you have a lot of people that didn't evacuate. Even though
there were evacuation orders put in place, people just decided that they just wanted to take that chance and stay home.
So I think the key thing with this is making sure that whether or not you do have an evacuation that you just get out. This is not a storm to take
that chance with, especially because the wind speed here will be even stronger than we had with Florence.
JONES: Allison Chinchar at the weather center, thank you so much.
Still to come tonight on the program, there is growing concern around the world for missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. We're going to take you
to Istanbul for the very latest on his disappearance, that's coming up next.
And a missing journalist, an assassination plot and head of Interpol arrested. Is there a common thread here? We're going to investigate.
[14:40:51] JONES: Turkey says Saudi Arabia is allowing its consulate* in Istanbul to be searched. Turkish authorities investigate the disappearance
of a journalist. This surveillance video shows Jamal Khashoggi entering the Saudi consulate one week ago. He had not been seen since.
The U.N. is calling for an investigation, while the U.S., U.K. and France have expressed concern for Khashoggi's safety.
Nic Robertson is following the investigation for us and from Istanbul just outside the consulate building. Nic, good to see you.
So the Turks are stepping up their demands it seems of the Saudis. To what end? Is it bearing any fruit so far?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, it does seem to be so much as the Saudi is going to allow Turkish authorities into the
consulate which under the Vienna Convention, they don't have to do and that does seem to be that the Saudis are succumbing possibly to the sort of
pressure that they've heard coming from the White House.
Vice President Mike Pence say that he's deeply troubled. The world deserves answers. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying that there should be --
the Saudis should go along with requests to help investigate this.
President Trump says he doesn't have any details about it but he is concerned that the British foreign secretary has had a phone call with his
opposite number in Saudi Arabia. He's also expressed concern and said that if some of these reports in the media were true, that would be deeply
troubling because friendship between countries is based on, you know, mutual values and they said that the Saudis should go along with requests
to help with the investigation, a full investigation.
But what we don't know, Hannah, and this is quite critical here is what precisely have the Saudis agreed to? What is it that the Turkish
authorities are going to get access to? How long will they be allowed in the consulate? Will they be able to inspect it by themselves? Will there be
any areas that are off limits? Will they be able to bring in forensic teams, for example, and scrutinize very carefully certain rooms if they
want to? None of that is clear at the moment.
But it certainly as the situation where Turkish authorities are strongly suggesting that they have more information and evidence available, more
than just that video of Jamal Khashoggi going in a week ago into the consulate that amounts to putting pressure on the Saudis to the point of
saying, you, the Saudis say he left, then prove that he left.
So the Turkish authorities are really putting the onus on Saudi authorities at the moment so the investigation, as far as we know, hasn't physically
begun. But the expectation is it will soon. Hannah?
JONES: Khashoggi's fiancee was the last person to seemingly see him go into the building, he was going to file some marriage papers, we understand.
What's the situation with her then? Is she cooperating with the authorities as well on both sides?
ROBERTSON: Sure. We understand she's spoken with Turkish authorities twice now. And, of course, she was the person that raised the alarm. She was
there with him when he went inside. She was waiting for him to come outside. After four hours raising the alarm and saying that he had gone and
then hadn't come out, you know, telling Turkish authorities that.
[14:45:08] So she does seem to be cooperating, as much as she can providing the information that she can. We understand that by her accounts that she
knew Khashoggi was concerned about going into the consulate but felt that he needed to do it to get these marriage documents that he would be
required for their wedding which was just a few days away. Would in fact if everything had gone to their plan they would already be married by now.
Of course, she's left in a very different position saying that she continues the hope that he is still alive. That she hasn't succumbs yet to
what is circulating here in Turkey, that there's a possibility that maybe a far darker outcome. Hannah?
JONES: Nic Robertson live for us there in Istanbul. Thanks, Nic.
Now, an investigative website claims to have uncovered the true identity of the second Russian agent wanted in connection with the Novichok poisonings
here in the U.K. earlier this year Bellingcat says the man named by British police as Alexander second man is really a Russian military doctor.
CNN's Nina Dos Santos has been covering this story and sent this report.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: After outing the first suspect in the Salisbury poisonings, the U.K. investigative website, Bellingcat,
produced what it claims is proof that the second mean seen in these pictures is Alexander Mishkin, formerly described only by the alias
Alexander Petrov. And just like his companion, Bellingcat says he is also a highly decorated agent of Russia's military intelligence unit, the GRU.
Having allegedly received the country's highest accolade from President Putin himself.
ELIOT HIGGINS, FOUNDER, BELLINGCAT: We had our partners in Russia, the insider go to his hometown, speak to local people and discover more
information about him. We even discovered he won the Hero of Russia awards, so huge amount of information about him to confirm his identity.
DOS SANTOS: Using a combination of online databases, facial recognition software and human intelligence, Bellingcat discovered that Mishkin was
born 39 years ago in the village of Loyga, in the far north of Russia.
His rank has not been reported but he's believed to be a medical doctor. Training which could have been crucial when handling the nerve agent
Novichok, which U.K. authorities believe that the two smeared on the door of former spy, Sergei Skripal. That's a concern for those who have long
raised the alarm about Russian interference in the west.
BOB SEELY, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: We don't know if he was just there as an operative. We don't know if he was there to administer
the poison or as a backup in case other people were infected by it. I think it's really regrettable. Doctors are not there to poison people. They're
there to save lives.
DOS SANTOS: News about Mishkin's identity comes amid a major international effort to push back on GRU activity on and offline. After the U.K.,
Australia, and New Zealand publicly accused the body of masterminding multiple devastating global cyber-attacks. And the Netherlands unveiled
details of a full plot to hack into the organization for the prevention of chemical weapons.
Reacting to the latest Bellingcat revelations, Russia's embassy in London accused such investigations of having what it called obvious ties to the
secret services. And said that it showed that the U.K. had no intention of pursuing the investigation within the framework of international law. The
metropolitan police decline to comment.
Nina Dos Santos, CNN, London.
JONES: So then a dissenting Saudi journalist is missing and now feared dead. China detains first a prominent actress and then now, former head of
Interpol and Russian agents, as Nina is reporting that brazenly poison enemies on British soil. A coincidence or a sign that America's new
isolationism under President Trump has emboldened autocrats to trample on their critics with a little fear of any reprisal?
Patricia Lewis is research director of international security at Chatham House joins me now in the studio. Patricia, thank you for coming in.
What is happening then to the global order and is any kind of like respect for international law now null and void?
PATRICIA LEWIS, RESEARCH DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY, CHATHAM HOUSE: It's not null and void but it certainly feels very different, doesn't it?
And I think we can trace this back further, I think if we go back to the beginning of George W. Bush's administration where the U.S started to
withdraw from international treaties, where they undermined the United Nations. We start to see then the, if you like, the response from Russia
and then it started to tumble.
And Obama wasn't able to quite put it back again. Didn't know how to respond to the Syria chemical weapons use. Didn't quite know how to respond
to the holy crane. And then we start to see Russia get very emboldened and such to do the sorts of things that we haven't seen for decades in terms of
dirty trick, sneaky operations, assassinations, et cetera which are designed to instill terror in other potential victims.
[14:50:10] JONES: And China, arguably, as well, also taking these -- using these sort of tactics. Again, now where Donald Trump would say he's been
very, very tough on China. He'd also say he'd be very tough on Russia, but especially on China at the moment. So one wonders why they're so emboldened
now under what is -- at least on the face of it, a tougher U.S. regime.
LEWIS: Well, China's human rights record at home has always been very poor. And you could -- you could argue we still don't know all the details but
you could argue that this is another detention of people who have been challenging the Chinese government. We've seen that over many years. So
that may not be so different.
I think what we're also seeing there is attacks in cyberspace that are coming from Russia, that are coming from China, coming from North Korea and
other countries. And these countries want to control the international in some way. They want to stop their citizens from seeing things on the
internet that we are allowed to engage where -- and inform ourselves by.
And I think that this sort of control at home and doing what they like abroad is a very worrying approach to the world. But then we're seeing the
United States behave very differently today. Move away from NATO, undermine the G-7, continue now to undermine the United Nations, again, just at the
time when we need collective, strong multilateralism and the west for like uniting together.
And we can see how that works in the OPCW, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the U.K. led a fantastic diplomatic charge
against Russia and won. We've got attributions now on the agenda.
And at the United Nations, we're seeing the U.K. again along with other countries stand up to President Trump over the issue of collective action.
This is the kind of thing we need to see. We need to see strong leadership again, but in a multilateral collective way so that we stand up for the
rule of law.
JONES: And I want to ask you specifically then about the U.S. and the U.S. role in terms of international law as well, because you talked then about
President Obama and his role. He was very sort of seemingly tacky to take on the role of a policemen -- world policeman.
Donald Trump specifically said he didn't want that role. And with America sort of relinquishing that title of the global policeman, who fills the
LEWIS: Well, this is the trouble, isn't it? If you -- if you've got this role and then you just step back from it and you indeed undermine those
institutions as a setup to provide it, who does fill it?
So Russia and China fill into -- fill the power vacuum but they don't want to be the world's police either. And I don't think the world wants them to
be the police.
So the European Union perhaps has to step up. And, you know, and form a collective group in order to fill the void that the United States seems to
be determined to leave open for now.
JONES: OK. Well, we have to leave it there, but we very much appreciate you coming in. Patricia Lewis, thank you for your thoughts on this.
JONES: Right now, I believe we've got some breaking news that we can just bring you. Very briefly, though. This is about Jeremy Hunt, the British
foreign secretary, we do understand that in relation to Jamal Khashoggi, who is of course the Saudi journalist who is now missing having entered the
Saudi consulate in Turkey a week ago.
We understand that Jeremy hunt has called his Saudi counterpart to talk about this. And so as soon as we get any further details on this, and we'll
of course bring that to you first just in relation to this conversation, long conversation we've bene having about international order and the crazy
event that seems to be happening across the globe at the moment.
Stay with us here on the program. Back after the short break.
[14:55:04] JONES: Vipassana is one of those wellness buzzwords making the rounds right now, but it isn't new. This ancient meditation practice has
been around for centuries. CNN's Amara Walker takes us to one of India's leading retreats.
AMARA WALKER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: For some, wellness can be found without saying a word. Another spiritual discipline luring visitors from
around the world to India is called Vipassana.
If that doesn't sound familiar, maybe it's more modern incarnation will. Mindfulness. A global phenomenal that stems from this 2,500-yearld practice
born in India.
RAVI SAXENA, PRACTICE AND TEACHES VIPASSANA: It means to see. And Vipassana means to see in a special way. In a comprehensive way in these two
characteristic for various angles. So you have that complete look and not (INAUDIBLE)
WALKER: Ravi Saxena runs a financial advisory firm in India. He also practices and teaches the craft of Vipassana which requires those who
practice it to enter a still, silent state for an extended period of time.
Saxena says the best way to learn the skill is to surround yourself by it at specialized retreats like this one. The Dhamma Giri Vipassana
International Academy located north of Mumbai.
SAXENA: The biggest discovery of mankind (INAUDIBLE) was that we don't react to things outside. With every contact from outside, there is a
physical sensation on the body which the deeper mind feels and if it's pleasant, it wants to hold and that's how the behavior factor changes from
reactions to positive action.
In natural, quality of a pure mind is all fulfilled with very positive emotions. Whether it is love or balance or strength.
JONES: Vipassana, there you go. Thanks so much for watching tonight. Appreciate your company. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" coming up
after this break.