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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Millionaire Beats Coed, Claims Self-Defense; New Clues Found In Online Videos. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired October 10, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] HILL HARPER, HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED SHOW HOST: -- for 17 families who lost their loved ones. I`m Hill Harper, we`ll see you next

time on how it really happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A jaw dropping story tonight. A stunning young woman left like this. She says her boyfriend beat her, black and blue.

But the boyfriend says it was all in self-defense. And that she started the fight.

Now he is threatening to sue her. How does that happen?

Plus, today marks eight long weeks since Chris Watts was put in handcuffs, accused of killing his whole family.

BELLA WATTS, DAUGHTER OF CHRIS AND SHANANN WATTS: My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But we still don`t know how that family died.

SHANANN WATTS, VICTIM, WIFE OF CHRIS WATTS: We`re not promised anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just what evidence they have on dad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DNA as long as it`s stored properly, can last a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why he would have killed his own kids.

S. WATTS: He is probably the best father I could have asked for my children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially with tonight`s brand new detail that spins absolutely everything into question.

S. WATTS: My husband and I have not been on vacation, because we couldn`t afford them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Chris Watts really off his family, just when life started getting easy?

S. WATTS: Both of us get our cars paid for, paid vacations, paid time off. I mean, work from wherever you want to. I don`t think anyone has a better

job than that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would make that worth it?

S. WATTS: He is a cheater. Right, Chris?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice," and today marks eight

weeks that we`ve been covering the case of the Colorado father accused of killing his own family, dumping their bodies and lying about it. It`s a

horrific and violent story. And yet the glimpses we got of their home life show a picture perfect American family. Two kids, a dog, a happy couple, a

beautiful home. Shanann Watts led us into that life in a way that makes us question everything now.

Tonight we have another woman it turns out letting us into her life, but it seems brutally, blatantly obvious, what may have happened here. At least

it seems that way at twist, because this story has a nauseating twist. 22- year-old Melissa Gentz says her boyfriend beat her black and blue. Allegedly kicking her in the head and strangling her, before punching her

and smacking her in the face. And then trapping her in the bathroom.

It`s the kind of attack that could put you behind bars for decades. And probably do a lot of damage to your social life, to your dating life. Even

if you are the heir to a fortune. Especially when your ex takes her injuries to Instagram. Heads up here, she is speaking Portuguese, but what

she says is clear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA GENTZ, VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: (SPEAKING PORTUGUESE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A boyfriend, Eric Bretz is now facing a domestic violence charge. But here`s where the twist comes in, he is fighting back, just

like he says he was fighting back that night. Because he claims all this was in self-defense. He claims she started it. She started the fight --

is planning on suing her for destroying his reputation. That might be a little more difficult with the audio recordings that were posted after the

fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SPEAKING PORTUGUESE) (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now to talk this through is Ray Caputo, he is a reporter with news 96.5 WDBO. Ray, this is an astounding story. And it is

once again a woman living out loud on the internet, but there is a lot of evidence that is also very loud in this case. Walk me through what

happened.

RAY CAPUTO, REPORTER, NEWS 96.5 WDBO: The victim was against her boyfriend Eric Bretz, they weren`t dating too long, only a couple months. But it was

early in the morning, there was an argument over her cell phone.

[18:05:00] Apparently she had accused him of taking the cell phone, and she does admit to police that she was initially the aggressor, that after --

I`m asking for this phone, she had pushed him, and from there, he just attacked her brutally, you`ve seen those pictures, and he is claiming that

he was defending himself, but those injuries to her don`t look like he was defending himself. It doesn`t seem like equal force, because he is accused

of kicking her, strangling her, hitting her in the head with a bottle, ripping out chunks of her hair, and ultimately he was charged with domestic

violence and strangulation. He had another charge that had been dropped, so if you look at those pictures, the whole idea of him defending himself

it sort of doesn`t add up.

BANFIELD: Ray, let me ask you. This whole sort of internet sensation, these pictures that she posted of her injuries went viral. And that seems

to not be sitting well with this young man, Eric Bretz, 25 years-old with his very, very wealthy family. By all accounts, millionaire possibly

billionaire family, one of the wealthiest families in Brazil by some reports. And am I mistaken when I characterized that they through her

lawyer have threatened her and suggested that she is ruining their reputation and his reputation, by making this post public?

CAPUTO: That is correct, Ashleigh. You know, it`s not a secret that people with money, you know can get out of crime and defend themselves a

lot easier than people who don`t. I mean, take O.J. Simpson for example. So, that is what they`re doing, they`re using their money. They have a

high paid lawyer out of Miami. He is going to try to successfully argue that those injuries that were caused to Miss Gentz were really self-

defense.

So, that is correct, but you know what, with the social media nowadays, and the internet. You know, I think that it could takes something like

domestic violence which maybe, you know a victim like Miss Gentz could be stifled in the past. And it shines a bright light on it. It takes it out

of the shadows. So, now that this is out there he is fighting a much bigger force than just one woman. He is fighting a lot of people. You

know, mainly people in his own country, but now this story`s gone viral around the world, and we`re talking about it here in the U.S.

BANFIELD: Well, it happened here, it happened in Florida, and this young woman -- she is quite a shining star at the University of South Florida.

She is a molecular cellular biologist student, been there for almost four years, clearly, she got the brains and the beauty, so I`m not surprised

that her -- first of all her pictures before she was injured would be viral. And then the pictures after she is injured would go viral as well.

By the way, I just wanted to give you a couple of facts from the police report. And so this makes sense. Here`s the background. Melissa says

this fight started when he took her phone, she got angry and pushed him and punched him. Then it just went haywire and he attacked her, she says. She

says she escape from some of the attacks by getting into the bathroom, trying to call 911. The bathroom door she says was broken down. She

couldn`t get through to 911 in time, the attack continued. She was kidnapped and kept there, then ultimately she claims she was able to escape

this -- his apartment get down to the lobby where the doormen were. And ultimately contact 911.

So, that as the context. She says, she was not only punched and kicked, but she was also, she says strangled with his legs. Meaning he had her in

a leg hold around her neck, she says, but she was strangled. So, I want to read from the police report, what the police have actually put into black

and white. And this has to do with some of the hair pulling she said that she endured.

The photo you are going to see was taken, her lawyer says, after she showered. She showered after the alleged attack. When you see the picture

it`s a little jarring. So, our apologies, but this is what the police said about it, the defendant continued to batter the victim by grabbing her

hair, and striking her in the face multiple times with a closed fist, he proceed to toss the victim around the room by her hair as well as hitting

her in the face with a bottle of Pedialyte. That is odd, but some college kid consider Pedialyte helpful in hangovers.

Maybe that is why. There is no children involve in this particular story. But that is the photo that Melissa`s lawyer says she took after she had

taken a shower, post alleged attack and that is the hair she said, she lost because of the alleged assault. I want to go on to the bathroom door.

Because Melissa`s sister came to this apartment the next day with the police and with Melissa, I believe Melissa was with her that is the day

that this young man was arrested, Eric Bretz was arrested and at that time, this is the photograph of the bathroom door that Melissa`s sister took

according to Melissa`s lawyer.

[18:10:11] Let me read to you while you are looking at that bathroom door, what the police report says about that bathroom door. The victim was able

to enter the bathroom in an attempt to call 911, the defendant kicked open the bathroom door to prevent her from contacting 911. She attempted to run

out of the bathroom, but the defendant continued to restrain her.

I want to bring in Karen Smith, retired detective Jacksonville Sheriff`s Office and Forensic Specialist. That is pretty strong evidence if you ask

me. Those photographs, granted Karen, they are not police photographs, but they may be given to the police. Give me your detective`s eye on what

you`re seeing.

KAREN SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I am seeing a lot Ashleigh, the hair in the bathroom is just the beginning of the

puzzle. The photographs of her face, and there was one piece of that puzzle in particular that really stood out to me. And that was not the eye

that had the bruises around it, the other eye. If you look closely at the white of that eye, there is a hemorrhage in there. And that is consistent

with the sleeper hold that she alleges that he had her in. Which is where you wrap your legs around someone`s neck and you compress. When that

happens, the blood that goes up into your head, can`t escape back down through those jugular veins. And what happens is those small capillaries

will hemorrhage and it will cause the small little pinpoints of hemorrhage in the eyes, the eyelids and other small films of skin, when you survive

something like that, those hemorrhages will coalesce into a subconjunctival hemorrhage which is exactly what we are seeing in that eye. So, that goes

right to point of her story of him having her in the sleeper hold. Besides the fact that we have the superficial laceration on her forehead. You can

see it in the photo, right there. The massive bruising around her eye, consistent with being punch and kicked. The hair in the shower, now if

there are follicles attached to those small hairs, you know, we shed hairs, a hundred hairs a day is normal, but if there is follicles attached to that

hair, that means they were forcefully removed. So, detectives, regardless of who took those photos, they have a lot to work with in the case, and a

lot to apparently substantiate her claim.

BANFIELD: So, I am going to play a little bit more of the recording. You heard it a bit in the intro, but I want to play a little bit more in the

recording that apparently Melissa was able to hit some sort of recording device, perhaps on her phone during the alleged attack. And you know,

unfortunately, it`s in Portuguese, so we have the text of the translation, what you should be hearing in Portuguese is allegedly, again, Eric Bretz,

screaming at her, she is screaming back, but he is saying, you do not accept the man who has more dominance than you. You do not accept, you

think you`re the man of the relationship, but you`re not. You`re a woman, you see? You have to accept that. Now, I want to just play that for you

so you can hear the frenetic nature of how that was being said. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So for Mr. Gentz part, his family and his lawyer has said that they choose not to litigate this in public, that they will litigate this in

court. They go even further and I want to quote from a statement that they released. And again, this is the family lawyer, the family lawyer`s

statement for Mr. Gentz and his family. The family will prosecute Miss Gentz. I said, Gentz, I mean Erik Bretz. This is Erik Bretz attorney, the

family will prosecute Miss Gentz for her slander and libel faction. They will seek to recover damages for the harm to his and his family`s

outstanding reputation. Joey Jackson as a defense attorney, and as one of the more reputable legal analysts out there, I dare say sir and a professor

of the law, does he stand a chance with any kind of legal action that he says he may take against her for slander or libel?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN PRIMETIME JUSTICE GUEST SHOW HOST: Ashleigh great to see you, quick answer, no. It`s outrageous and preposterous that a lawyer

would number one say, you know, it`s not outrageous certainly by saying you`re not litigating it in the press, but then you put out a statement

saying you`re going to go after her, she is a liar, he has a great reputation, it will never happen. The fact that is she is brave and she

should be encouraged, right, by having the bravery and foresight to put those photos out there, to talk about what domestic violence looks like.

That is how it looks. And if you`re defending a guy like this, despite his billions, you want to show contrition.

[18:15:02] Even if Ashleigh, you have a self-defense claim, the fact is that the force used appears to be grossly disproportionate to the threat

posed. Because someone would might pushed you or something else. You`re allowed to use proportionate force, you`re not allowed to blacken their eye

like that and beat the living daylight out of them and kick down doors and do the rest of it.

And so his conduct is certainly abhorrent, but the way you defend it is by showing contrition and by using the fact that he hasn`t done anything like

that to his benefit and say, things got out of control. There was apparently pills or whatever else is involved, he is not this kind of

person, we intend to make amends to how ever we can to her.

You know, she is bright, she is wonderful, it was a misunderstanding and let us move forward, not by saying, you know, look, he had to hit her, he

did this, he did that, because there are programs and other things you get your client into, by going this route, now the D.A. is going to want to

litigate it and they are going to want to bury him and put him in jail. And that is where he`ll probably end up.

BANFIELD: It`s the politics of the law as well as the letter of the law.

JACKSON: Exactly.

BANFIELD: And I just want to let our viewers know that he is out on bond, it was apparently 60,000. Which I find it a little surprising given that

he is from millionaire family. He is also been asked to surrender his passport. So for now, he is not going back to Brazil. That we know of,

unless he has got a very expensive jet that can evade all passport authorities. As we know, I have seen that happened before. We`ll keep you

updated on this story and let you know what happens, living out loud, sometimes that can be to your benefit.

Someone else who was living out loud, Shanann Watts, and eight weeks ago, Chris Watts was arrested for murdering her and for murdering the daughters,

Bella and Cece the police say. And tonight we`re learning that it was absolute blind luck, believe it or not. Blind luck. That police could

actually track him through surveillance video. Track when he left that morning with presumably those bodies in the truck, and maybe track even a

few more things that might had happened in front and at the doors of the house. We`ll let you know what it was, next.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police department received a missing person`s call just before 2:00 p.m. on Monday.

WATTS: Someone has her, just please bring her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just doesn`t smell right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested Chris on suspicion of killing his wife and children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looked at Shanann and Chris, they just immediate thought was love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She almost oversaturated media with these happy photos, because deep inside she was hoping for that to be the case.

S. WATTS: He has been the best thing that has ever happen to me. I could have not ask God for a better man in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s been eight weeks since that better man, Chris Watts was put in hand cuffs. Eight weeks since everyone he knew stopped viewing him as a

quiet and carrying father and started questioning whether in fact he could be a triple murderer. And it has been eight weeks since the story out of

small town Colorado, exploded like wildfire right across America and to countries right across the globe as well. And every day over the course of

eight weeks, we discovered nuggets of truth about the Watts family and what really was going on inside that house, and tonight what was going on

outside that house. What was going on right next door in fact that could have given investigators perhaps one of the biggest clues of all in this

case.

Kyle Peltz is our crime and justice producer. He has been working on this story with us. Kyle, it is absolutely fascinating to find this bombshell

piece of information about the neighbor`s camera, that same neighbor`s camera that helped establish the time line, watching Chris Watts back out

of that drive way. Presumably with all of their bodies in the truck. What are we learning about this?

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: You said we know it was a neighbor`s camera that captured Chris leaving his house the morning after

the alleged murder, but now we`re learning from a source close to the case that were it not for that neighbor moving the position of that camera just

before the murders, it`s possible none of that would have been captured.

BANFIELD: So the neighbor had actually had the camera train somewhere else? Not on this exact spot where Chris allegedly backs the truck out of

5:27 a.m. giving police this perfect time line. Even watching Shanann arrive home that sort of night before. Earlier in the morning, right about

2:00 a.m. The neighbor`s camera really establish all that timeline and its blind luck that we got it?

PELTZ: Right. According to a source close to the case the neighbor had adjusted the position of the camera, just before the murders.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. There`s also other information about neighbors and doorbell cams. That neighbor was not the only person on the block with

a recording device on the doorbell. What else are we learning?

PELTZ: Right. We`ve seen some posts floating around online, it appears at least one other neighbor actually had a ring doorbell. And apparently this

neighbor had turned over all of their cloud video, cloud recordings from their ring doorbell to police when this family was still apparently just

missing and this neighborhood urged other people in this area to do the same thing.

BANFIELD: So obviously the police were smart enough to go door to door and say anybody got recordings we can look at? While we are looking for this

missing family. Karen Smith, as a detective, I am assuming this is right in your wheel house, this is now standard operating procedure, lots of

people have cameras and it helps the investigation, but I`m also curious about all day Monday, all day Tuesday, and most of Wednesday that Chris

Watts was not a suspect necessarily publicly known.

[18:25:11] But he had a GPS more than likely in his work truck. A truck that looks like a fleet truck. Has numbers in the back window indicating

it is a fleet truck. And we know that Anadarko had monitored fleet trucks. Do you think your colleagues in the investigative branch of the Watts case

were monitoring every single movement, every minute of his movements from the moment he announced to us, help me find my wife, to the moment he was

cuffed?

SMITH: It`s a good possibility that they were monitoring it, but even if they weren`t, these GPS devices, Global Positioning System, some of them in

this work trucks are self-contained, they have chips that holds the data. Others have a central database where all of the data is fed on a real-time

basis. So, I don`t know which one this truck had one either way. They`re going to get a warrant, they are going to find out where he went, the

direction he went. The path that he travelled, the times he was gone, how long he was there, and when he came home.

BANFIELD: Fascinating.

SMITH: That is a huge for law enforcement.

BANFIELD: Fascinating to me, and what`s more fascinating is this new video we`ve uncovered, showing Shanann Watts, indicating boy life was lousy,

until it wasn`t. Have a look at what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: My husband and I have been together six years and we`ve been to Disney once. And that is because we were able to drive to it. My husband

and I have not been on vacations, because we couldn`t afford them. We could not go to, like were supposed to go to Cancun on our honeymoon and

not being able to afford it. I`ve been with label now, I started January 25th, and we`ve already earned a free trip to Louisiana, to New Orleans.

And we just earned our trip to the Dominican Republic, to Punta Cana, like seriously, all-inclusive stay. I`m also able to earn money while I`m away.

Which is incredible because I will never ever going to be able to do that before. I love being able to travel with my husband, and being able to

afford that, and also being able to travel with my kids when they are already to go, take them places -- and to Disney, and things like that, you

know, they need, everyone needs those memories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, it`s astounding to me that she said, they couldn`t even afford a honeymoon, but now they`re traveling everywhere, thanks to

her. So, this doesn`t square to a man who want to then kill her. Does this cut either way for either of these sides in the story?

JACKSON: You know, Ashleigh, briefly you show this to a jury, as a prosecutor, and you sit down this speaks volumes, this is about a husband

who abuses the trust, the love, the respect and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much. The end.

BANFIELD: It`s so astounding to see this, these beautiful vacation pictures, only ending in this horrible tragedy. Joey Jackson, thank you

for that. Shanann Watts` social media pages were not only how she kept in touch with her family and friends, but how she built her career as well.

Could they also be a way for her to help convict her husband Chris from beyond the grave? Or does he actually end up having the edge? That is

next.

[18:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHANANN WATTS, PREGNANT MOTHER WHO WAS KILLED: Happy birthday dear Celeste!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ring around the Rosy --

WATTS: I think it`s really cool to create vision boards with your children.

(voice over): I am special.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am special.

WATTS (voice over): Diva.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diva.

WATTS (voice over): Princess.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Princess.

WATTS (voice over): Say happy birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Birthday, birthday.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: Pirates said it first, dead men tell no tales and that could have been Chris Watts plan if

he did kill his wife. But the thing about the woman he married is that Shanann Watts loved to tell tales of their family, their happy family.

And she told a lot of them before she died, posting video after video on Facebook and painting a pretty full picture of their home life. Most of the

pictures made Chris look pretty good. The epitome of the perfect dad and husband.

But all of those happy videos could turn against him once this case goes to court, because he`s accused of taking the lives of the little girls Shanann

Watts worked so hard to conceive.

And all Shanann`s videos describing the bright future she was building for them, could mean a dismal future for daddy, if the prosecutors bring

Shanann back from the grave as a witness in all of her Facebook videos.

Joining me now, former prosecutor, Randy Zelin.

[18:35:00] Randy, there is so much to be made about this woman`s personality, about her tendencies or inclinations, and they are all laid

out right there in full living color on Facebook.

But there`s this pesky little thing called hearsay. Is there a way around hearsay so that this young woman could be alive and living in that

courtroom for the jury to see?

RANDY ZELIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely because the hallmark of hearsay is that this piece of evidence is being offered for the truth of the matter

asserted. None of these videos are being offered for the truth of the matter asserted in the video. No one cares whether or not the issues of

playing with the kids and talking to the kids and speaking about the kids and speaking about to Chris is truthful or not.

It`s going to her state of mind. And why does that become critical on this case? Because the defendant himself has made her state of mind critical by

alleging that she is responsible for the deaths of her two children. So, his own confession ultimately may end up being his undoing not once but

twice.

BANFIELD: Wow! I never really thought of that, the fact that he opened the door for the hearsay exception because he is the one accusing her of

murder. It`s pretty fascinating that it`s really a chess match that these lawyers are going to be going through in this courtroom.

I want to show you just how prolific Shanann Watts was with regard to posting videos. In the last year of her death, well, listen, from February

on, because she died in August. She posted 21 videos in February, six in March, 18 in April, 18 in May, 14 in June five in July, they really tapered

off to zero in August.

Many say that shows maybe what the relationship was like. But in some of the videos that she did post, you really get to see what she thought about

those little girls. And if he`s accusing her of being the murderer of the little girls, it`s going to be hard for the jury to watch this next video

where she effectively said, I want these little girls to run the world. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: Don`t let anything or anyone come between you and your goals, what you`re building, your dreams, your foundation. That`s what I`m building for

my girls right now. I`m building their foundation for their future.

I don`t want my girls to come -- to grow up the way I did where they are very insecure and not confident in themselves or in something that they

believe in wholeheartedly.

And I want my girls to run the world. I want them to take on the world and have no fears of growing as an individual. I don`t want anything to stop

them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Randy, that sounds like a woman who not only wants the best for these girls. But if you see this next piece of video I want to show you,

she wants them and their lives to be full and rich and positive. Take a look at her as she describes the vision boards that she helped these

children create.

For anybody who doesn`t know what vision board is, it`s kind of a trend whereby you put your life up on a board, all your goals, hopes, dreams, so

that you can actually, you know, envision it. But here`s how she did these vision boards with these little girls. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATTS (voice over): What do we do every day? We say I am loved.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am loved.

WATTS (voice over): I am beautiful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am beautiful.

WATTS (voice over): I am special.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am special.

WATTS (voice over): I am healthy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am healthy.

WATTS (voice over): I am blessed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am blessed.

WATTS (voice over): I am strong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am strong.

WATTS (voice over): Yes. I am gifted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am gifted.

WATTS (voice over): I am smart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am smart.

WATTS (voice over): I am confident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am confident.

WATTS (voice over): I am perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am perfect.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Randy, I can only see -- I don`t know. A look of -- I don`t know. Defeat in a defense attorney`s face if you have to face down that

video in a murder case where your client is saying, yeah, she`s the one, she`s the one that strangled those kids, that woman who did that for her

kids.

ZELIN: When you`re sitting there at the defense table on trial and that video is played, you want to talk about a sphincter tightening moment for

the defense attorney. This is a situation that cries out for a disposition of this case where maybe if he`s lucky, he comes out feet first, but at a

very, very old age.

BANFIELD: Yeah. If you think that one`s hard to take or as you say, sphincter tightening, this one, I personally look at it, it gets you in the

throat because it truly shows what she feels for these kids.

[18:40:01] Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: I always lived for other people until recently. Now I live for me and for my family, my kids. I live for them. I don`t live to prove you or -

- no offense -- anyone. Prove anything to anyone. I don`t have anything to prove but to my kids. And at the end of the day -- and yourself. That`s all

that matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I live for my kids. Literally she says, I live for my kids.

ZELIN: It is difficult to say anything and imagine the visceral reaction that your viewers are getting and that we are all getting from these

videos. It pales in comparison. It`s not even close to what it will be like for a jury on trial watching these videos and the insult and the disgust

that they`re going to feel. How dare this defendant pin this horrific, unbelievable, indescribable --

BANFIELD: Yeah.

ZELIN: -- tragedy on this woman. How dare you.

BANFIELD: You risk a big offense there. There`s one last thing that I saw. It stuck out to me. I`ve seen cases use this stuff before. It was a video

of Chris singing hot dog, hot dog, hot diggety dog. It was sweet.

And she was shooting him do that and she posted that on her Facebook with the caption that said, he`s going to kill me. Hashtag, he`s going to kill

me. I wonder if that`s just unfortunate for Chris (INAUDIBLE) ever make it in court. Make it quick.

ZELIN: Well, certainly, if they`re coming in, they`re coming in. Every piece of evidence against the defendant is prejudicial. But the relevance

because of what he said in his confession, it is coming in.

BANFIELD: Oh, my god. All right. Stand by, Randy. When we come back after the break, I want to go to the other side of the coin because sometimes

these videos can cut both ways. How would Chris Watts` defense team mine these videos for something that would work for them? Believe it or not,

they can. That`s next.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTS: Chris and I, I think, have an amazing relationship. He`s sexy. He`s good looking. I`m definitely the dominant one in the relationship. He does

whatever I tell him to anyway, so he will do it.

CHRIS WATTS, FATHER ACCUSED OF MURDERING HIS FAMILY: I let my wife do all the cooking.

S.WATTS: He`s being a good dad and help me out. And he does take care of our girls. He is probably the best father I could have asked for for my

children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the possibility for Shanann Watts to take the stand in a very strange way. Because prosecutors could make a

spectacle of the hours and hours of video that Shanann Watts posted on Facebook before she died. And they could make the argument that it

highlight the happy lives that Chris Watts allegedly took away.

But the defense can do something too. The defense can make a spectacle of all that video as well. Because Shanann spends an awful lot of her time

praising her beloved husband. And she even catches a few moments that maybe even don`t show off her best sides. So what will happen?

Defense attorney Rene Sandler joins me live now. Rene, this is the most fascinating case because we are living in an age where we just post

everything about our personal lives and we live out loud. And now, this could give an opportunity for a jury to get to know Shanann in a way maybe

she wants them to know from the grave and maybe she wouldn`t want them to know from the grave.

RENE SANDLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure.

BANFIELD: Let me ask if you think as a defense attorney it will be a good idea to get Shanann`s videos in front of that jury because she sure does

love that husband.

SANDLER: She sure does love that husband and her children. So, if the defense chose to use these videos, it needs to fit like a glove, not to

talk about O.J. here.

BANFIELD: Right.

SANDLER: But it needs to fit like a piece in a puzzle in order to be successful. They can backfire terribly. So the defense must, must, must

have a cogent strategy in order for it to work. Otherwise, it`s going to backfire.

BANFIELD: I feel like if videos do end up coming in -- and Randy Zelin made a very good point. He said, hearsay, I get it, but this guy`s accusing

her of murder. And that could, you know, make a really good argument for this being permitted and admitted in court.

So let me ask you this. I want you to watch this next little moment where Shanann fawns all over Chris, not only as a great husband, but as a really

good father. Have a look.

SANDLER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.WATTS: At that same time, I was in a bad place, I met my Chris, I met my husband now. And he`s been the best thing besides my children that has ever

happened to me. I couldn`t have asked god for a better man in my life. He`s sexy. He`s good looking. He does take care of our girls. He`s probably the

best father I could have asked for for my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Rene, I could see a defense attorney standing right in front of a jury saying, did you hear that? The best father I could ask for for my

children. Does this kind of videos, do they cut both ways when you`re in this courtroom chess match?

SANDLER: Sure, they absolutely cut both ways. I do disagree with your guest from before with regard to hearsay.

[18:50:01] Again, if the defense uses them here, they are likely opening the door across the board. So it is a very careful, very carefully woven

strategy for the defense to consider. I would also have these videos and Shanann`s sort of psychological profile analyzed by an expert to see if

there are any nuggets whatsoever that would be helpful to use in the case.

BANFIELD: I`m glad you ask that, because I wanted to show you something where she shows that she is extremely busy. Somebody might be able to

characterize her as at the breaking point. I mean, god, if you`ve ever had two little kids under the age of four, it`s not a pleasant life.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: I`m here to attest. I swear on that. But here is a moment where you can see that she is slightly frazzled. I am curious as to whether that

would be picked up and sort of twisted for a jury. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SCREAMING)

S.WATTS: Girls, girls, girls. Bella, do you want to go night night to Celeste? Stop it. Look, look. The girls are going crazy. Say hi. Can we not

fight? Bella, stop it. I`m going to try to do this real quick. Bella? This is supposed to be a positive video. All right. Pick one name. She is a wild

one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. I also want to go on the record right now, Rene, as saying that`s probably the most patient mother I`ve ever seen.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: Because I would have lost my cool at, you know, five seconds into that video. But you know how some people can twist things and say,

she`s not always so friendly. It seems like a hell of a reach.

SANDLER: I don`t know if I agree with that. If you look at her face and just her -- the observations that you can make of her body language and her

actual facial structure in that video compared to others, it does show somebody who`s more tense in the moment. But I would have an expert analyze

across the board this video to look professionally for anything that I could pull out to use to support my client.

BANFIELD: I`m still going to go on record saying I can`t believe how patient that woman is. I have seen many videos of her where those kids are

going ballistic and she keeps it together. I would not have. I never do. I lose my -- you know what all the time. Here`s a critical little moment. You

know, in the block before us with Randy Zelin, I showed that little moment where she says, he`s going to kill me, hashtag.

SANDLER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Here`s another one of those little moments that I always wonder if it is going to make it into a courtroom because it can be used against

someone even though we all know what it means in the context. Take a look at this. It`s about -- bringing me that baby.

She`s got a friend that she`s broadcasting too and the friend got a baby. Shanann really wants to see this little baby. It has been too long. Look

how she characterize it, specifically the last thing that she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.WATTS: You need to pick your butt up and come visit us. The girls miss you and so do we. I need that baby. Bring me the baby before he`s a toddler

and I don`t want him any more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did you hear that, Rene? Bring me the baby, bring me the baby before he`s a toddler and I don`t want him any more. You know the context,

they`re playing this silly chess game. You know, I love babies, but you know it can be twisted too.

SANDLER: It can. Look, it`s all contextual (ph) and that could blow back very, very hard against the defendant if you`re not careful. So, all of

these videos need to be viewed in the entirety and by a professional to assist in a strategic presentation of evidence.

BANFIELD: You know, sometimes that strategic game playing in court can be so ugly. I`ve seen it happen before. I`ve seen people used these things out

of context and sometimes it works. Rene, thank you for that.

You know, it`s no secret that Shanann and Chris were expecting. They might have been excited about that new baby. But Bella was positively thrilled.

She was hoping for more than one new brother or sister. She was thinking big. She was thinking like a basketball team. You`re going to see that

moment, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.WATTS: I love you, girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Four-year-old Bella Watts was a proud big sister to Celeste. The two girls like peas in a pod laughing and playing together and with their

father as well. She was definitely looking forward to meeting her brand new little brother. Actually, Bella was hoping for more than one brand new

little sibling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.WATTS (voice over): Hey, Bella, how many babies do I have in my belly?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five.

S.WATTS (voice over): Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

S.WATTS (voice over): That`s a lot of babies. You better grow up really quickly, because I need help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It was just one. It was a little boy.

[19:00:00] He was supposed to be named Nico (ph), but he didn`t make it. Next hour of "Crime & Justice" begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): A jaw-dropping story tonight. A stunning young woman left like this. She says her boyfriend beat her, black and

blue. But the boyfriend says it was all in self-defense. And that she started the fight. Now, he`s threatening to sue her. How does that

happen?

Plus today marks eight long weeks since Chris Watts was put in handcuffs, accused of killing his whole family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELLA WATTS, DAUGHTER OF CHRIS AND SHANANN WATTS: My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: But we still don`t know how that family died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS, CHRIS WATTS` WIFE: We`re not promised anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Just what evidence they have on dad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DNA as long as it`s stored properly, can last a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Or why he would have killed his own kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: He`s probably the best father I could have asked for my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Especially with tonight`s brand new detail that spins absolutely everything into question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: My husband and I have not been on vacation because we couldn`t afford them

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did Chris Watts really off his family, just when life started getting easy?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: Both of us get our cars paid for, paid vacations, paid time off. I mean, work from wherever you want to. I don`t think anyone

has a better job than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: What would make that worth it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: He`s a cheater. Right, Chris?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and justice. And today marks eight weeks we`ve been covering the case of

the Colorado father accused of killing his own family, dumping their bodies and lying about it. It`s a horrific and violent story. And yet the

glimpses we got of their home life show a picture perfect American family. Two kids, a dog, a happy couple, a beautiful home. Shanann Watts led us

into that life in a way that makes us question everything now.

Tonight we have another woman it turns out letting us into her life. But it seems brutally blatantly obvious, what may have happened here. At least

it seems that way at first because this story has a nauseating twist. 22- year-old Melissa Gentz says her boyfriend beat letter black and blue. Allegedly kicking her in the head and strangling her, before punching her

and smacking her in the face. And then trapping her in the bathroom.

It`s the kind of attack that could put you behind bars for decades. And probably do a lot of damage to your social life, to your dating life. Even

if you are the heir to a fortune. Especially when your ex takes her injuries to Instagram, a heads up here, she`s speaking Portuguese, but what

she says is clear.

(Foreign Language)

BANFIELD: That boyfriend is now facing a domestic violence charge. Here`s where the twist comes in. He`s fighting back, just like he says he was

fighting back that night. He claims all this was in self-defense.

He claims she started it, she started the fight and if that`s not enough he`s planning on suing her for destroying his reputation though that might

be a little more difficult with the audio recordings that were posted after the fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Foreign Language)

ERICK BRENTZ, SUSPECT: Why are you so dumb? Stop being stupid. You have no idea of anything. I already told you. Stop being dumb.

(Foreign Language)

ERICK BRENTZ, SUSPECT: You do not accept the man who has more dominance than you. You think you`re the man in the relationship but you`re not.

You`re a woman. You have to accept that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now to talk this through is Ray Caputo. He`s a reporter with news 96.5 WDBO. Ray, this is an astounding story. And it`s

once again a woman living out loud on the internet. But there`s a lot of evidence that`s also very loud in this case. Walk me through what

happened.

RAY CAPUTO, REPORTER, 96.5 WDBO: Yes, well the victim Melissa Gentz and her boyfriend Erick Brentz. They weren`t dating too long, only a couple

months. But it was early in the morning, there was an argument over her cell phone. Apparently she had accused him of taking the cell phone.

And she does admit to police that she was initially the aggressor, that you know after I`m asking for this phone she had pushed him and, you know, from

there, he just attacked her brutally. Now you`ve seen those pictures, and he`s claiming that he was defending himself. But those injuries to her

don`t look like he was defending himself.

It doesn`t seem like equal force because he`s accused of kicking her, strangling her, hitting her in the head with a bottle, ripping out chunks

of her hair. And ultimately he was charged with domestic violence and strangulation. He had another charge that had been dropped. So if you

looks at those pictures, the whole idea of him defending himself, his story doesn`t add up.

BANFIELD: Ray, let me ask you. This whole sort of internet sensation. These pictures she posted of her injuries went viral. And that seems to

not be sitting well with this young man Erick Brentz 25 years old with his very, very wealthy family. By all accounts millionaire possibly

billionaire family, one of the wealthiest families in Brazil by some reports and am I mistaken when I characterized that they through their

lawyer have threatened her and suggested that she ruining their reputation and his reputation by making these posts public?

CAPUTO: That`s correct Ashleigh. You know it`s not a secret that people with money, you know, can get out of crimes and defend themselves a lot

easier than people who don`t. I mean take O.J. Simpson for example. So that`s what they`re doing. They`re using their money.

They have a high paid lawyer out of Miami. He is, you know, he`s going to try to successfully argue that those injuries that were caused to Ms. Gentz

were really self-defense. So, you know, that is correct. But you know what, with the social media nowadays and the internet, you know, I think

that it can something like domestic violence which maybe, you know, a victim like Ms. Gentz could be stifled in the past.

And it shines a bright light on it. It takes it out of the shadows. So you know now that this is out there he`s fighting a much larger force than

just one woman. He`s fighting a lot of people, you know, mainly people in his own country. But now this story has gone viral around the world. And

we`re talking about it here in the U.S.

BANFIELD: Well it happened here. It happened in Florida. And this young woman is a -- she`s quite a shining star at the University of South

Florida. She`s a molecular cellular biologist student, been there almost four years.

Clearly she`s got the brains and the beauty so I`m not surprised that her - - first of all her pictures before she was injured would be viral. And then the pictures after she`s injured would go viral as well. By the way I

just wanted to give you a couple facts from the police report.

And so this makes sense. Here`s the background. Melissa says this fight started when he took her phone. And she got angry and punched him and

pushed him. Then it just went haywire and he attacked her she says.

She says she escape from some of the attacks by getting into the bathroom, tried to call 911. The bathroom door she says was broken down. She

couldn`t get through to 911 in time. The attack continued.

She was kidnapped and kept there then ultimately she claims she was able to escape this apartment, his apartment, get down to the lobby where the

doormen were and ultimately contact 911. So with that as the context she says she was not only punched and kicked. But she was also she says

strangled with his legs meaning he had her in a leg hold around her neck she says that she was strangled.

So I want to read from the police report what the police have actually put into black and white. And this has to do with some of the hair pulling she

said that she endured. The photo you`re going to see was taken her lawyers says after she showered. She was showering after the alleged attack.

And when you see the pictures, it`s a little jarring so our apologies but this is what the police said about it. The defendant continued to batter

the victim by grabbing her hair, and striking her in the face multiple times with a closed fist. He proceeds to toss the victim around the room

by her hair as well as hitting her in the face with a bottle of Pedialyte and that`s odd. But some college kid consider Pedialyte helpful in

hangovers.

Maybe that`s why there`re no children involved in this particular story. But that`s the photo that Melissa`s lawyer says she took after she had

taken a shower post allege attack. And that was the hair she lost because of the alleged assault. I want to go on to the bathroom door because

Melissa`s sister came to this apartment the next day with the police and with Melissa. I believe Melissa was with her.

And that is the day that this young man was arrested. Erick Bretz was arrested. And at that time, this is the photograph of the bathroom door

that melissa`s sister took according to Melissa`s lawyer. And let me read to you while you`re looking at that bathroom door what the police report

says about that bathroom door.

The victim was able to enter the bathroom in an attempt to call 911. But the defendants kicked open the bathroom door to prevent her from contacting

911. She attempted to run out of the bathroom. But the defendant continued to restrain her.

I want to bring in Karen Smith, retired Detective Jacksonville Sheriff`s office and forensic specialist. That`s pretty -- pretty strong evidence if

you ask me, those photographs. Granted Karen they are not police photographs. But they may be given to the police. Give me your

detective`s eye on what you`re seeing.

KAREN SMITH, RTD. DETECTIVE JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF`S OFFICE: The hair in the bathroom is the beginning of the puzzle. The photographs of her face,

and there was one piece of that puzzle in particular that stood out to me. And that was not the eye that had the bruises around it, the other eye. If

you look closely at the white of that eye, there is a hemorrhage in there.

And that is consistent with the sleeper hold that she alleges he had her in which is where you wrap your legs around someone`s neck and you compress.

When that happens, the blood that goes up into your head, can`t escape back down through those jugular veins. Those small capillaries will hemorrhage

and cause the small little pinpoints of hemorrhage in the eyes, the eyelids and other small films of skin.

When you survive something like that, those hemorrhages will coalesce into a subconjunctival hemorrhage which is exactly what were seeing in that eyes

so that goes right to point of her story of him having her in a sleeper hold besides the fact that we have the superficial cut on her forehead.

You can see it in the photo right there. The massive bruising around her eye consistent with being punch and kicked.

The hair in the shower now if there are follicles attached to those small hairs, you know, we shed hair a hundred hairs a day is normal. But if

there`s follicles attached to that hair that means they were forcefully removed. So detectives regardless of who took those photos they have a lot

to work with in the case and a lot to apparently substantiate her claim.

BANFIELD: So I`m going to play a little bit more in the recording. You heard a bit in the intro. But I want to play a little bit more in the

recording that apparently Melissa was able to hit some sort of recording device perhaps on her phone during the alleged attack. Unfortunately, it`s

in Portuguese.

So we got the text of the translation. But you should -- what you should be hearing in Portuguese is allegedly again Erick Brentz screaming at her.

She`s screaming back. But he is saying you do not accept the man who has more dominance than you. You do not accept. You think you`re the man of

the relationship but you`re not. You`re a woman.

You see? You have to accept that. And I want to just play that for you so you can hear the frenetic (ph) nature of how that was being said. Have a

listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Foreign Language)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So for Mr. Gentz part his family and lawyer had said they choose not to litigate this in public that they will litigate it in court.

They go even further and I was quote from a statement that they released and again this is the family lawyer and the family lawyer`s statement for

Mr. Gentz and his family.

The family will prosecute Ms. Gentz. I said Gentz, I meant Erick Brentz. This is Erick Brentz`s attorney. The family will prosecute Ms. Gentz for

her slanderous and libelous actions. They will seek to recover damages for the harm to his and his family`s outstanding reputation.

Joey Jackson as a defense attorney and as one of the more reputable legal analysts out there, I dare say sir. And a professor of the law, does he

stand a chance? With any kind of legal action that he says he may take against her for slander or libel?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ashleigh great to see you, quick answer, no. It`s outrageous and preposterous that a lawyer would number one say,

you know, it`s not outrageous certainly by saying you`re not litigating it in the press. But then you put out a statement saying you`re going to go

after her. She`s a liar. He has a great reputation. It`ll never happen.

The fact is she`s brave and she should be encouraged, right, by having the bravery and foresight to put those photos out there, to talk about what

domestic violence looks like. That`s how it looks. And if you`re defending a guy like this, despite his billions, you want to show contrition even if

Ashleigh you have a self-defense claim the fact is that the force used appears to be grossly diagnose disproportionate to the threat posed because

someone might push you or something else you`re allowed to use proportionate force.

You`re not allowed to blacken their eye like that and beat the living daylights out of them and kick down doors and do the rest of it. And so

his conduct is certainly abhorrent. But the way you defend it is by showing contrition and by using the fact that he hasn`t done anything like

that to his benefit and say, things got out of control.

There was apparently pills or whatever else is involved. He is not this kind of person. We intend to make amends however we can to her. You know

she`s bright. She`s wonderful. It was a misunderstanding and let`s move forward not by saying, you know, hey look you know he had to hit her. He

did this. He did that because there are programs and other things you get your client into, by going this route now the D.A. is going to want to

litigate it and they`re going to want to bury him and put him in jail. And that`s where he`ll probably end up.

BANFIELD: It`s the politics of the law as well as the letter of the law.

JACKSON: Exactly, exactly.

BANFIELD: And I just want to let our viewers know that he is out on bond. It was 60,000 which I find that surprising given he`s from a millionaire

family. He`s also been asked to surrender his passport so for now, he`s ain`t going back to Brazil that we know of, unless he has a very expensive

jet that can evade all passport authorities. But who knows.

I`ve seen that happen before. Fascinating. We`ll keep you updated on this story and let you know what happens. But living out loud, sometimes

that can be to your benefit. Someone else who was living out loud, Shanann Watts. And eight weeks ago, Chris Watts was arrested for murdering her and

for murdering the daughters Bella and Cece the police say.

And tonight we`re learning that it was absolute blind luck, believe it or not, blind luck. That police could track him through surveillance video.

Track when he left that morning with presumably those bodies in the truck, and maybe track even a few more things that happened in front and at the

doors of the house. We`ll let you know what it was, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the police department received a missing person`s call just before 2:00 p.m. on Monday.

CHRIS WATTS, SUSPECTED MURDERER: If somebody has her just please bring her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just doesn`t smell right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested Chris on suspension of killing his wife and children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who looked at Shanann and Chris, their just immediate thought was love.

PAT LALAMA, CRIME JOURNALIST: She almost oversaturated media with these happy photos because deep in side she was hoping for that to be the case.

SHANANN: He has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. And I couldn`t have asked God for a better man in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It has been eight weeks since that better man Chris Watts was put in hand cuffs. Eight weeks since everyone he knew stopped viewing him

as a quiet and caring father and started questioning whether he could be a triple murder. It`s been eight weeks since the story out of small town

Colorado spread like wild fire right across America and to countries right across the globe as well and every day since we`ve learned nuggets of truth

about the Watts family and what was going on inside that house.

And tonight what was going on outside that house. What was going on right next door in fact that could have given investigators perhaps one of the

biggest clues of all in there case. Kyle Peltz is our Crime and Justice Producer. He`s been working this story with us.

Kyle it is absolutely fascinating to find this bombshell piece of information about the neighbor`s camera, the same neighbor`s camera that

helped establish the time line, watching Chris watts back out of that drive way presumably with all of their bodies in the truck.

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: You said we know it was a neighbor`s camera that captured Chris leaving his house the morning after

the alleged murder. But now we`re learning from a source close to the case that were if not for that neighbor moving the position of that camera just

before the murders it`s possible none of that would have been captured.

BANFIELD: So the neighbor had actually had the camera trained somewhere else not on this -- this exact spot where Chris allegedly backs the truck

out at 5:27 a.m. giving police this perfect time line even watching Shanann arrive home that sort night before early, early in the morning right at

about 2:00 a.m. The neighbors camera really established all that timeline. And it`s blind luck that we got it.

PELTZ: Right. According to a source close to the case that neighbor had adjusted that position of his camera just before the murders.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable.

PELTZ: There`s also other information about neighbors and doorbell cams.

BANFIELD: That neighbor was not the only person on the block with a recording device on the doorbell. What else are we learning?

PELTZ: Right. We see some posts floating around online. It appears at least one other neighbor actually had a ring doorbell. And apparently this

neighbor had turned over all of their cloud video, cloud recordings from their ring doorbell to police when this family was still apparently just

missing and this neighborhood urged other people in this area to do the same thing.

BANFIELD: So obviously the police were smart enough to go door to door to say anybody got recordings we can look at while were looking for this

missing family? Karen Smith as a detective I`m assuming this is right in your wheel house.

This is standard operating procedure, lots of people have cameras and it helps the investigation. But I`m also curious about all day Monday, all

day Tuesday, and most of Wednesday that Chris Watts was not a suspect necessarily publicly known. But he had a GPS more than likely in his work

truck.

A truck that looks like a fleet truck, has numbers in the back window indicating it`s a fleet truck. And we know that Anadarko had monitored

fleet trucks. Do you think your colleagues in the investigative branch of the Watts case were monitoring every single movement, every minute of his

movements from the moment he announced to us, help me find my wife to the moment he was cuffed?

SMITH: It`s a good possibility that they were monitoring. But even if they weren`t these GPS devices, global positioning systems some of them on

this work trucks are self-contained. They have chips that holds the data.

Others have a central database where all of the data is fed on a real-time basis. So I don`t know which one this work truck may have had. Either way,

they`re going to get a warrant and they`re going to find out where he went, the direction he went, the path he traveled, the times he was gone, how

long he was there, and when he came home.

BANFIELD: Fascinating.

SMITH: And that could be huge for law enforcement.

BANFIELD: fascinating to me, and what`s more fascinating is this new video we`ve uncovered, showing Shanann Watts, indicating boy life was

lousy, until it wasn`t. Have a look at what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANANN WATTS: My husband and I have been together six years and we`ve been to Disney once. And that`s because we were able to drive to it. My

husband and have not been on vacations because we couldn`t afford them. We couldn`t go to -- like we were supposed to go to Cancun on our honeymoon

and not being able to afford it.

I`ve been with Lavel now. I started January 25th. We`ve already earned a free trip to Louisiana, to New Orleans. And we just earned our trip to the

Dominican Republic, to Punta Cana, like seriously an all inclusive stay.

I`m also able to earn money while I`m away which is incredible. I`ve never been able to do that before. I love being able to travel with my husband,

and being able to afford that, and being able to afford travel with my kids when were all ready to go and take places and to Disney, and things like

that, you know, they need. You know everyone needs those memories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joey Jackson it`s astounding to me they couldn`t afford a honeymoon. But now they`re traveling everywhere, thanks to her. So this

doesn`t square with a man who would want to kill her. Does this cut either way for either of these sides in the story?

JACKSON: You know Ashleigh briefly you show this to a jury as a prosecutor and you sit down. This speaks volumes. This is about a husband who abuses

the trust, the love, the respect and the entirety of the relationship from a woman who loved him so, so much, the end.

BANFIELD: It`s so astounding to see this, these beautiful vacation pictures, only ending in this horrible tragedy. Joey Jackson, thank you for

that. Shanann Watts` social media pages were not only how she kept in touch with her family and friends but how she built her career as well. But could

they also are a way for her to convict her husband Chris from beyond the grave or does he actually end up having the edge? That`s next.

[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Happy Birthday Dear Cece.

BELLA WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: Merry go round.

SHANANN WATTS, MURDER VICTIM: I think it`s really cool to create vision boards with your children.

I am special.

B. WATTS: I`m special.

S. WATTS: Diva?

B. WATTS: Diva.

S. WATTS: Princess.

B. WATTS: Princess.

S. WATTS: Give him kisses. Say happy birthday.

CHRIS WATTS, MURDER SUSPECT: Birthday, birthday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Pirates said it first, dead men tell no tales, and that could have been Chris Watts` plan if he did kill his wife.

But the thing about the woman he married is that Shanann Watts loved to tell tales of their family, their happy family. And she told a lot of them

before she died, posting video after video on Facebook, and painting a pretty full picture of their home life. Most of the pictures made Chris

looked pretty damn good. The epitome of the perfect dad and husband. But all of those happy videos could turn against him, once this case goes to

court. Because he`s accused of taking the lives of the little girls Shanann Watts worked so hard to conceived. And all of Shanann`s videos

describing the bright future she was building for them, could mean a dismal future for daddy, if the prosecutors bring Shanann back from the grave as a

witness in all of her Facebook videos.

Joining me now, former prosecutor Randy Zelin. Randy, there is so much to be made about this woman`s personality, about her tendencies or

inclinations, and they are laid out right there in full living color on Facebook. But there`s this pesky little thing called hearsay. Is there a

way around hearsay so that this young woman could be alive and living in that courtroom for the jury to see?

[19:35:17] RANDY ZELIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely, because the hallmark of hearsay is that this piece of evidence is being offered for the

truth of the matter asserted. None of these videos are being offered for the truth of the matter asserted in the video. No one cares whether or not

the issues of playing with the kids, and talking to the kids, and speaking about the kids, and speaking about Chris is truthful or not. It`s going to

her state of mind. And why does that become critical in this case? Because the defendant himself has made her state of mind critical by

alleging that she is responsible for the deaths of her two children. So, his own confession ultimately may end up being his undoing, not once, but

twice.

BANFIELD: Wow! I`ve never really thought of that, the fact that he opened the door for the hearsay exception, because he`s the one accusing her of

murder. It`s pretty fascinating that the -- it`s really this chess match that these lawyers are going to be going through in this courtroom. I want

to show you just how prolific Shanann Watts was with regard to posting videos. In the last year of her death, well, listen, from February on,

because she died in August. She posted 21 videos in February, six in March, 18 in April, 18 in May, 14 in June, five in July, they really

tapered off to zero in August. And many say that shows maybe what the relationship was like. But in some of the videos that she did post, you

really get to see what she thought about those little girls. And if he`s accusing her of being the murderer of the little girls, it`s going to be

hard for a jury to watch this next video, where she effectively said, I want these little girls to run the world. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: Don`t let anything or anyone come between you and your goals, and what you`re building, your dreams, your foundation. And that`s what

I`m building for my girls right now, I`m building their foundation for their future. I don`t want my girls to come -- to grow up the way I did,

where they are very insecure and not confident in themselves, or in something that they believe in wholeheartedly. And I want my girls to run

the world. I want them to take on the world and have no fears of growing as an individual. And I don`t want anything to stop them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Randy, that sounds like a woman who not only wants the best for these girls, but if you see this next piece of video I`m going to show

you, she wants them and their lives to be full and rich and positive. Take a look at her as she describes the vision boards that she helped these

children create. And for anybody who doesn`t know what a vision board is, can I just trend where by you put your life up on a board, all your goals,

hopes, dreams, so that you can actually, you know, envision it. But here`s how she did these vision boards with these little girls. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: What do we do every day? We say, I am loved.

B. WATTS: I am loved.

S. WATTS: I am beautiful.

B. WATTS: I am beautiful.

S. WATTS: I am special.

B. WATTS: I am special.

S. WATTS: I am healthy.

B. WATTS: I am healthy.

S. WATTS: I am blessed.

B. WATTS: I am blessed.

S. WATTS: I am strong.

B. WATTS: I am strong.

S. WATTS: Yes. I am gifted.

B. WATTS: I am gifted.

S. WATTS: I am start.

B. WATTS: I am smart.

S. WATTS: I am confident.

B. WATTS: I am confident.

S. WATTS: I am perfect.

B. WATTS: I am perfect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Randy, I can only see -- I don`t know, a look of -- I don`t know -- defeat in a defense attorney`s face, if you have to face down that video

in a murder case, where your client is saying, yes, she`s the one, she`s the one that strangled both of those kids, that woman who did that for her

kids.

ZELIN: When you`re sitting there at the defense table on trial and that video is played, you want to talk about a sphincter tightening moment for

the defense attorney. This is a situation that cries out for a disposition of this case, where maybe if he`s lucky, he comes out feet first, but at a

very, very old age.

BANFIELD: Yes, if you think that one`s hard to take or as you say sphincter tightening. This one, I personally look at it, it just gets you

in the throat because it truly shows what she feels for these kids. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:39:58] S. WATTS: I always lived for other people until recently. Now, I live for me and for my family, my kids. I live for them. I don`t live

to prove you or -- no offense, anyone -- or anyone -- to prove anything to anyone. I don`t have anything to prove but to my kids, and at the end of

the day, and yourself. That`s all that matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I live for my kids. Literally, she says, I live for my kids.

ZELIN: It is difficult to say anything. And imagine the visceral reaction that your viewers are getting and that we are all getting from these

videos. It pales in comparison, it`s not even close to what it will be like for a jury on trial watching these videos. And the insult and the

disgust that they`re going to feel. How dare this defendant pin this horrific, unbelievable, indescribable tragedy on this woman.

BANFIELD: Yes. You risk -- you risk -- yes, you risk a big offense there. There`s just this one last thing that I saw that it stuck out to me.

Because I think cases use this stuff before. There was a video of Chris singing hot dog, hot dog, hot diggity dog. It was sweet. And she was sort

of (INAUDIBLE) shooting him do that and she posted it on her Facebook with a caption that said, he`s going to kill me. #hesgoingtokillme. I wonder

if that is just unfortunate for Chris or if that could ever make it into court. Make it quick.

ZELIN: Well, certainly, if they`re coming in, they`re coming in. Every piece of evidence against the defendant is prejudicial, but the probate of

value, the relevance because of what he said in his confession, it`s coming in.

BANFIELD: Oh, my god. All right. Stand by, Randy, because when we come back after the break, I want to go to the other side of the coin, because

sometimes these videos could cut both ways. How would Chris Watts` defense team mine these videos for something that would work for them? Believe it

or not, they can, that`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:46:46] S. WATTS: Chris and I, I think, have an amazing relationship.

(INAUDIBLE)

C. WATTS: (INAUDIBLE)

S. WATTS: Can you grab me my charger with the wall plug, please?

He`s sexy, he`s good looking. I`m definitely the dominant one in the relationship. He does whatever I tell him too anyway, so he`ll do it.

C. WATTS: So, I`m going to let my wife do all the cooking.

S. WATTS: He`s being a good day and helping me out.

And he does take care of our girls. Like, he`s probably the best father I could have asked for, for my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the possibility for Shanann Watts to take the stand in a strange way. Because prosecutors could make a

spectacle of the hours and hours of video that Shanann Watts posted on Facebook before she died. And they could make the argument that it

highlights the happy lives that Chris Watts allegedly took away. But the defense could do something, too. The defense could make a spectacle of all

that video as well, because Shanann spends an awful lot of her time praising her beloved husband. And she even catches a few moments that

maybe even don`t show off her best sides. So what will happen?

Defense Attorney Rene Sandler joins me live now. Rene, this is the most fascinating case, because we`re living in an age where we just post

everything about our personal lives and we live out loud. And now, this could give an opportunity for a jury to get to know Shanann in a way maybe

she wants them to know from the grave, and maybe she wouldn`t want them to know from the grave. Let me ask you, if you think as a defense attorney,

it would be a good idea to get Shanann`s videos in front of that jury because she sure does love that husband?

RENE SANDLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She sure does love that husband and her children. So, if the defense chose to use these videos, it needs to fit

like a glove, not to come -- not to talk about O.J. here.

BANFIELD: Right.

SANDLER: But it needs to fit like a piece in a puzzle in order to be successful. They can backfire terribly. So, the defense must, must have a

cogent strategy in order for it to work. Otherwise, it`s going to backfire.

BANFIELD: I just -- I feel like if videos do end up coming in, and Randy Zelin made a very good point, he said hearsay I get it, but this guy is

accusing her of murder. And that could, you know, make a really good argument for these being permitted and admissible in court. So, let me ask

you this, I want you to watch this next little moment, where Shanann fawns all over Chris, not only as a great husband, but as a really good father.

Have a look.

SANDLER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: At that same time, I was in this bad place, I met my Chris, I met my husband now. And he`s been the best thing, besides my children,

that has ever happened to me. I couldn`t have asked God for a better man in my life. He`s sexy, he`s good looking, and he does take care of our

girls. Like, he`s probably the best father I could have asked for, for my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Rene, I could see a defense attorney standing right in front of a jury saying, did you -- did you hear that? The best father I could ask

for, for my children. Does this kind of -- these troves of videos, do they cut both ways when you`re in this courtroom chess match?

SANDLER: Sure. They absolutely cut both ways. And I do disagree with your guest from before with regard to hearsay, if -- and again, if the

defense uses them here, they are likely opening the door across the board. So, it is a very careful -- very carefully woven strategy for the defense

to consider.

[19:50:10] I would also have these videos and Shanann`s sort of psychological profile analyzed by an expert to see if there are any

nuggets, whatsoever that would be helpful to use in the case in chief.

BANFIELD: I`m glad you asked that because I wanted to show you something where she shows that she is extremely busy. Somebody might be able to

characterize her is at a breaking point. I mean, God, if you ever had two little kids under the age of four, it is not a pleasant life. I`m here to

attest and I`ll swear on that.

SANDLER: Same.

BANFIELD: But here`s a moment where you can see that she`s slightly frazzled and I`m curious as to whether that would be picked up and sort of

twisted for a jury. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: Girls, girls, girls, girls. Bella, you want to go night, night? Celeste, stop it. Look, look. All right, guys, I can`t invite you because

my kids are going crazy. Say, hi. Can we not fight? Bella, stop it. I`m going to try to do this real quick. Bella. This is supposed to be a

positive video. That`s right. Pick one name. Babe, Mitch, she is a wild one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. I also want to go on the record right now, Rene, as saying that`s probably the most patient mother I`ve ever seen, because I would

have lost my cool at, you know, five seconds into that video. But you know how some people can twist things and say, aha, she`s not always so

friendly. It seems like a hell of a reach.

SANDLER: I don`t know if I agree with that. If you look at her face and just sort of the observations that you can make of her body language and

her actual facial structure in that video compared to others, it does show somebody that`s more tense and in the moment, but I would have an expert

analyze across the board these videos to look professionally for anything that I could pull out to use to support my client.

BANFIELD: I`m still going to go on record saying, I can`t believe how patient that woman is. I`ve seen many videos of her where those kids are

going ballistic and she keeps it together. I would not have, I never do. I lose my, you know what, all the time. Here`s a critical little moment.

You know, in the block before us with Randy Zelin, I showed that little moment where she said he`s going to kill me hashtag.

SANDLER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Here`s another one of those little moments that I always wonder is going to make it into a courtroom because it`s -- it can be -- it can be

used against someone even though we all know what it means in the context. But take a look at this. It`s about -- you know, it`s about bringing me --

bringing me that baby. She`s got a friend that she`s, you know, broadcasting to and the friend has got a baby and Shanann really wants to

see this little baby. It`s been too long. And how -- look how she characterized it, specifically, the last thing that she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: You need to pick your butt up and come visit us. The girls miss you and so do we. And I need that baby. Bring me the baby before he`s a

toddler and I don`t want him anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did you hear that, Rene? Bring me the baby, bring me the baby before he`s a toddler and I don`t want him anymore. You know the context

as their playing the silly chess game, is, you know, I love babies, but you know it can be twisted, too.

SANDLER: It can. But look, it`s all contextual and that can blow back very, very hard against the defendant if you`re not careful. So, all of

these videos need to be viewed in the entirety, and by a professional to assist in a strategic presentation of evidence.

BANFIELD: You know, sometimes that strategic gameplay in court can be so ugly. I`ve seen it happen before, I`ve seen people use these things out of

context and sometimes it works. Rene, thank you for that.

SANDLER: (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: You know, it`s no secret that Shanann and Chris were expecting. And they might have been excited about that new baby, but Bella was

positively thrilled and she was hoping for more than one new brother or sister. She was thinking big. She was thinking like a basketball team,

and you`re going to see that moment, next.

S. WATTS: I love you, girls.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: 4-year-old Bella Watts was a proud big sister to Cece. The two little girls like peas in a pod laughing and playing together and playing

with their dad, too. And Bella was really looking forward to meeting her new little brother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. WATTS: OK. Bella, how many babies do I have in my belly?

B. WATTS: Five.

S. WATTS: Whoa.

C. WATTS: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

S. WATTS: That`s a lot of babies. You better grow up really quickly, because I need help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: But it was only one little baby, a baby boy. They planned to name Nico and a baby boy who did not survive. Thank you for watching,

everyone. See you back here tomorrow night at 6:00 Eastern for CRIME & JUSTICE. Stay tuned, "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END