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Wolf

Beto O'Rourke Trails Ted Cruz in Texas; Misunderstandings over Warren's DNA Test, Native American Heritage; Manafort Visits Mueller's Office 9 Times in One Month; Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein Speaks Out in Rare Interview; The Aftermath of Genocide in Myanmar. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 18, 2018 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You heard Beto O'Rourke's ad, he's questioning Cruz's manhood saying, how can you do this, how can you support a president who said these things about your wife, never mind, your father. That is an example of how O'Rourke has changed tactics in the past week to where he is becoming more of a traditional politician. He did accuse Ted Cruz of lying today. Quoted from the president during the Republican primaries. And the reason that is so different from the past is because O'Rourke has been getting the kind of not light on him and people have been gravitating on a national level for sure because he wasn't doing things like that and that changed and the question is whether or not that will backfire or that's the kind of fire that the liberals, who are part of his base, are looking for.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Still two and a half weeks to do. Let's see what happens.

Dana, thank you very much.

BASH: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: To our viewers, be sure to tune in later tonight. Dana moderates the Texas town hall with Beto O'Rourke live at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN immediately after the "SITUATION ROOM."

Coming up, from Washington to the indigenous community, Senator Elizabeth Warren's DNA results have caused a surge of criticism but our next guest says what you've heard so far is wrong.

Plus, Robert Mueller's quiet period hasn't been very quiet. CNN is learning new details, including at least nine meetings with Paul Manafort over the last month alone.

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[13:36:23] BLITZER: After unrelating taunts from President Trump, Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren wanted to set her claims straight about Native American heritage. But after releasing a video with the results, backlash erupted. According to our next guest, a lot of what we've heard about those results is simply wrong.

"Washington Post" fact check columnist, Glenn Kessler, went through all the data, consulted with experts. He joins us now.

Glenn, thanks so much for joining us.

Explain what was wrong about the reporting of Senator Elizabeth Warren's DNA?

GLENN KESSLER, DIPLOMATIC CORRESPNDENT, WASHINGTON POST: The reporting was framed that because the DNA test found it was anywhere from six generations to ten generations away that that meant she would have as little as one thousandth, 24th of her DNA was Native American. That's not the way to look at it. The report showed she had an ancestor who was Native American dating back six generations which is -- would place it around the 1850s, and this's somewhat consistent with the lore of the Warren family. The DNA doesn't, like, get smaller as you go back future generations, if you would go back 10 generations that means she might have had a dozen or more ancestors that were Native American.

BLITZER: So what do Native Americans have to say about this and what does your fact check show, bottom line?

KESSLER: The bottom line is Elizabeth Warren is 95 percent of European DNA. The Native American part you can definitely identify that there was an ancestor dating back maybe 15 or so years ago and she, for whatever reason, she wants to claim that she has that ancestor. But for Native Americans, your DNA does not make you Native American. You're a Native American if you participate in the community, you're part of that community, and you're active in that community, and you can -- and the connection is someone that you know, not someone that might have lived in the 1850s.

BLITZER: And she's never suggested she's part of the Native American community but her critics have gone after her doubling she has not only now but over the years misled people. What's your answer to that?

KESSLER: Well, you know, we've done a number of fact checks on this we said serious questions could have been raised about her judgment. She submitted recipes to a book and identified herself to a cook book and identified herself as Cherokee. Some people might view that as crossing the line and it's more than saying well, I happen to have an ancestor years back. Putting something in a book suggests you are claiming you are part of that tribe.

BLITZER: So where do we go from here as far as this whole issue is concerned.

KESSLER: The first step is to correctly identify what she said, that she has DNA that suggests there's an ancestor back from the 1850s, but whether or not it has a political impact, I'll leave that to the pundits to decide.

[13:40:02] BLITZER: There will be a lot of pundits who will.

Glenn Kessler, thanks for the terrific work you and your team do at the "Washington Post," fact checking these politicians. Appreciate it very much.

KESSLER: You're welcome.

BLITZER: Just coming into CNN, we're getting reaction to an attack in Afghanistan that killed one of the country's top security officials and two Americans were wounded in the attack at Kandahar palace. General Scott Miller, the top commander in Afghanistan, just issued a statement on the killing of the Afghan commander, quote, "Today, I lost a great friend. Afghanistan lost a patriot. My condolences to the people of Afghanistan. The good he did for Afghanistan and the Afghan people cannot be undone."

Just ahead, Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman, has been keeping Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team very busy, visiting Robert Mueller's office nine time this is month alone. We have details.

Plus, it's a scene of desperation on the border of Myanmar where thousands of refugees live in dire conditions with no place to go. CNN takes you exclusively inside the aftermath of the Myanmar genocide.

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[13:45:40] BLITZER: We now know that Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, now a convicted felon, is a frequent visitor to the special counsel's office since reaching a deal with prosecutors in early September. Manafort has come to Robert Mueller's office no less than nine times over the past month or so to talk with investigators.

Here to discuss, CNN legal analyst, Jack Quinn, who served as White House council during the Clinton administration, and Sara Murray, a CNN political correspondent.

Jack, nine times in the last months alone, what does that say to you?

JACK QUINN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It says he has a lot to offer to the special counsel. And he's giving it to him. Paul Manafort, his importance is evident by the effort the special counsel has gone to with him. He can talk about the Trump Tower meeting and the president's awareness of that, if any. He can talk about the change in the party platform at the convention. All of these things are critical because they tied together these activities in Ukraine where the Russian involvement and the platform and so on.

BLITZER: The allegation of collusion because he worked during the campaign.

QUINN: Absolutely. Yes. It doesn't mean he makes the case but he can speak to those issues and tie them together and help provide clarity.

BLITZER: And there's indications now that he's quiet before the storm, that shortly after the midterm elections, that Robert Mueller will be releasing more indictments. Roger Stone, you're doing interviewing on that. SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We're

waiting to see what Paul Manafort offers and whether there might be more players. But we know there has been this ongoing investigation surrounding Roger Stone. He has not been contacted by Mueller's team. And sources close to the investigation, close to the president say they believe once we get past the midterm there could be more criminal indictments coming. What they will say and who they will involve, we're waiting to see. And the big question is, when are we getting this report and what is Robert Mueller's report going to entail.

QUINN: And Stone links to Assange with links to Russia. And Stone and Manafort were business partners at one time. These folks are all tied together.

MURRAY: Right.

BLITZER: What do you make of this. Sara, I'll get your thoughts first. Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general of the United States, gives an interview of the "Wall Street Journal." Says very positive things, upbeat things about the Mueller investigation in contrast to the president who says it's a ruse, a witch-hunt and an awful situation.

MURRAY: I think Rod Rosenstein wants to do forecasting that we are running a legitimate investigation he says the cases we're making are based on evidence and people will see they're appropriately using the resources. So he's offering a counternarrative to the president who calls this a witch-hunt. At the same time, he knows he serves at the pleasure of the president.

BLITZER: How do you see that?

QUINN: I think, number one, he wants to ensure the American people that there's an investigation that was done fairly and independently. Secondly, it's important to bear in mind, Rod Rosenstein's future does not lie with Donald Trump. It lies elsewhere and he wants to come out of this with his integrity and credibility intact.

BLITZER: We'll see if he comes out after the midterms with a job and if his boss, Jeff Sessions, has a job because potentially there could be a lot of activity going on.

QUINN: Don't bet on it.

BLITZER: Don't bet on what?

QUINN: That either is around, come January.

[13:49:31] BLITZER: I suspect you're right.

Guys, thank you very much.

Up next, no electricity, stagnant water, barbed fences. Refugees living in grave conditions a year after the genocide in Myanmar. We'll go there.

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BLITZER: It's been over a year since the genocide in Myanmar. According to a new U.N. report, more than 10,000 people were killed and 720,000 people had to flee the violence. Yet, Myanmar's de facto leader strongly reject the findings. Along the country's border with Bangladesh, hundreds of thousands are now living in limbo, or as they call it, no man's land.

CNN's Matt Rivers takes us inside one camp that nearly half a million refugees have been forced to call home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we were very skeptical from the moment we set foot in country because we knew Myanmar's government was trying to use us to obscure the truth of what happened to the Rohingya people. Unsurprisingly, the government story does not hold up.

[13:55:10] (voice-over): These people are Rohingya Muslims. Some of them fled from what the U.N. called genocide.

Myanmar's government wants you to believe it never happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We fled for our life. We fled for our life.

RIVERS (voice-over): To meet these people, it took several days and a rickety boat to get to this stage.

(on camera): Foreigners aren't allowed in this part of the Rakhine. The only way we're able to be here is via government escort.

(voice-over): We're only taken where authorities want us to go.

Our first stop. There used to be more than 6,000 Rohingyas here.

(on camera): It's Rohingya?

(voice-over): Their existence now all been erased.

(on camera): That way? OK, thank you.

This is what's left of a Rohingya village that was here. It's overgrown. It's hard to tell there were any structures here at any point. The only clues we have to the violence that took place here are trees like this one, a year later, bearing the scorch marks of the fires that burned this village to the ground.

(voice-over): The government said their forces did respond to Rohingya terror attacks her in 2017, but that the Rohingyas burned down their own houses. Only local Rakhine Buddhists remain now. This man supports the story.

"The Rohingyas started attacking the army," he says. The Muslims announced that would have a celebration, a slaughtering and cooking soldiers and Rakhine people." Though clear evidence shows it was the Rohingya people who were the

victims of slaughter. Ten Rohingya men were hacked and shot to death by Myanmar soldiers, a massacre the military has admitted to, and that two Reuters journalists were jailed for investigation. The U.N. says many more men, women and children were savagely killed here as well.

The trip then continues through a barren, empty landscape. Makes sense when you remember the U.N. said 720,000 Rohingya fled when the violence broke out last year. A full U.N. report documents how the military and local groups engaged in rape, torture and murder of at least 10,000 people to get rid of the Rohingya, a group regarded as subhuman, noncitizens.

(on camera): So do you continue to claim that it did not happen in Rakhine state?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

RIVERS (voice-over): "During the incident there was damage. Regarding the army, we did everything within the law. We cannot comment on whether it was right or wrong.

(on camera): The question is very simple. Do you believe that genocide happened here or not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

RIVERS (voice-over): "I'd say genocide didn't happen."

Myanmar's civilian leader also denies genocide. Her government said it's ready to bring back Rohingya refugees like these, not allowed across the border into Bangladesh. They're staying put because in part because security forces that would oversee their return are some of the same people accused of carrying out the killing in the first place.

(oc0: The conditions inside that camp are obviously horrific. There's no access to education, no health care, no electricity, food is scarce. Yet still, they'd rather be on that side of the fence than this one because they're too afraid to come back.

(voice-over): Myanmar might continue to deny ethnic cleansing, but the evidence gathered by the U.N. and others is overwhelming. A government sponsored trip does nothing to change that fact.

(on camera): Wolf, even if we agree on a set of facts about what happened to the Rohingya people, there's no agreement on the best way to get those people out of those refugee camps and back to some sort of normal life for a number of different reasons. Hundreds of thousands of Rohingya refugees are likely to remain in limbo for months and even years to come -- Wolf?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Totally awful situation.

Matt Rivers reporting for us. Matt, thank you so much for that report.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in the "SITUATION ROOM."

"NEWSROOM" starts right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin.

We begin with the intensifying fallout of the apparent murder of U.S.- based Journalist Jamal Khashoggi. As the president pushes to give the Saudis more time to investigation, his treasury secretary is pulling out of the initiative next week. Steve Mnuchin is part of a growing list of dignitaries and business leaders who will not go to the Future Investment Initiative in Riyad.

And all of this in protest to the disappearance of Khashoggi. His last "Washington Post" editorial was just published today. He spoke of yearning for a free press in all the Arab world.