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Thousands Of Hondurans Marching Toward Mexico Border; Florida Governor Debate Is Tonight; Stock Market Volatility Is Back With A Vengeance. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 21, 2018 - 18:00   ET


[18:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: File this report.


BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After 24 hours stuck on a bridge between nations, the caravan finds another way. Most go back to the Guatemala side and pay a few pesos from (INAUDIBLE) while others pry a hole in fence and jump.

While the stressed of it all is too much for the sick and the weak. A few of the strongest manage to get a ladder and rope and comeback to help others down, including a mother and her (INAUDIBLE).

The migrants on the bank of the (INAUDIBLE) gasp and cheer as she is lowered to the rafts.


Yes, we can. After a slash of relief from the heat and the thirst, she looks up anxiously for her babies. A 5-year-old daughter named Candy, a 3-year-old son named Carlitos.

It's stunning to see him here because the day before I spotted him playing inside the Mexican gate. The little boy was fascinated by the riot gear and helmets. And one member of the Federales displayed touching humanity amid all the chaos.

I assumed his family was among the lucky few allowed through the process but they were actually separated from candy in the tear gas panic. So (INAUDIBLE) went back to find her and another way north.

What made you decide to climb onto that ladder?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): To complete the dream that I have.

WEIR: This bridge, this river, they can't stop me, she says. I am an all-terrain woman.

But there are people who see what just happened and would say you are using your child as a shield to break the law.

I don't think we are abusing the kids, she says. We can't leave them at home. They have to eat. I want them to study, have a good future. I do this for my kids. I ask you with all your heart, wouldn't your mother do the same for you.

Do you know that President Trump is threatening to use soldiers to keep you out and he's separated families? He has taken children like these away from their mother? You know this?

She knows but says we have faith in God. He has the final word.

In town, they are met with cheers from fellow travelers and a bit of Mexican hospitality. There's shelter here and vise from human rights workers and precious nourishment for the kids.

She borrows a phone to call her mom.

They are OK, she tells her, and are not turning back. They will rest here for the night waiting for the caravan's strength in numbers and are back on the road at dawn. From here it's a 2500 mile walk to America.


WEIR: And that walk will include jungles and deserts and monsoon rains like this. We are now in Tapachula, the town center. And you can see the entire caravan is taking whatever shelter they can waiting for the rain to go away. There's also a hurricane warning. Hurricane Willa which could hit Mexico in the next couple of days.

These folks are hoping north of here. According to the Mexican government, the official numbers are north of 7,000. And you can see them finding shelter wherever they can. Seven thousand plus marching north, only less than 500 have received asylum status, Ana.

So it harkens back to the haunting poem that says no one leaves home unless home is the mouth of a shark. You can imagine that the fortitude in these people, the determination, ultimately the fate of their success probably rests with politicians in Mexico City and Washington, D.C. But this image, the big march, the numbers, most at oblivious to the fact that this will send a very strong message to President Trump and his supporters who see this not as human beings looking for better life but as a horde of invaders and harden criminals and what not.

But when you see that group and those drone shot, you get desensitized to all of the stories. But there are 7,000 individual stories in this group here. Who knows what tomorrow or the next day will bring -- Ana.

CABRERA: Wow. I'm so glad you introduced us to that family, Bill. Thank you for being there, for being our eyes, our ears. Helping us understand.

As you mentioned, it's still 2500 mile journey to the U.S. Any idea how the Mexican government plans to handle what is potentially becoming a real crisis?

[18:05:08] WEIR: You know, President Trump tweeted that these people need to file for asylum. Need to go through proper channels or they will be turned away. But by the sheer and the size of the numbers you see what a problem that is in terms of management, right, the Federales. The Mexican official police, they weren't stopping these folks. They were really just trying to keep them safe.

I saw officers giving apples or you saw the kindness they portrayed to one kids. So it's anyone's guess how far they will get, when they will be turned away. The Honduran government was trying to claim that 2,000 had been sent back already which is kind of hard to believe. There are only three buses we saw at the intake center in Ciudad Hidalgo. So that is kind of hard to believe and hard to confirm right there. But this is going to play out in the coming days and weeks.

CABRERA: In Mexico in Guatemala. Thank you for your reporting. Keep up the good work.

Sixteen days until the midterms back here in the U.S. And there is troubling new evidence of the toxic political environment blanketing these elections. We are talking protesters screaming and cursing at lawmakers at restaurants and out in public. Watch this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave him alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave him alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They threw their leftovers at him. I didn't know them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here.


CABRERA: So you see there kind of in the corner in that booth, that is Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell being heckled while out to dinner with his wife, transportation secretary Elaine Chau. President Trump has scenes just like this to open up a new line of attack against Democrats labeling them a quote "angry, unhinged mob."

But here is the thing. No party has a monopoly on the politics of incivility just ask House minority leader Nancy Pelosi.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this piece of (bleep) Pelosi right here. Get the (bleep) out of here. Get the (bleep) out of here.


CABRERA: Pelosi had been campaigning for a fellow Democrat in Florida when that happened. Florida is one of the most important states on the midterm maps and it happens to be the site of a big CNN debate tonight featuring the candidates for Florida governor, Republican Ron Desantis and Democrat Andrew Gillum. CNN political director David Chalian is joining us now from that

debate site in Tampa.

David, before we get into the governor's race there, I want to ask you, just I mean, what we are seeing. You have been doing this for a very long time. Does the lack of civility seem worse to you or are we just more sensitive to it in the age of Trump?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I don't know, Ana. I mean, a couple hundred years ago there are stories of senators caning each other on the Senate floor. So I do think we have seen a different points throughout American history our politics be less than civil.

You know, the passion is clearly on display. And I do think that there's a real question if these are the most effective tactics for the people that are trying to get their points of view through this sensationalistic way and try to get media attention. It's certainly not my personal cup of tea of how I think Americans should practice their politics, but I think it's hard to say that this is the most uncivil that we have seen our politics in history.

CABRERA: About what happened to Nancy Pelosi, Republican congressman Steve Scalise tweeted this. I don't agree with Nancy Pelosi's agenda but this is absolutely the wrong way to express those disagreements. If you want to stop our politics, don't threaten her vote. That's how we settle our differences.

So David, here is a congressman who survived a shooting at a congressional baseball practice. If an incident like that hasn't led to a changed in the discourse, what hope is there that this is getting better any time soon?

CHALIAN: Yes. I don't think there is much of any. I'm pretty skeptical that it's getting better anytime soon. We are leaving in an extremely polarized tribal era of politics. Everybody puts on the jersey of which team they are on and sort of fights until the end here to get their point of view across. There is very little incentive for politicians today to sort of take hold of that middle ground or consensus or compromise, it seems.

We are indeed in a polarized era. And this has been happening in American politics, Ana, even before Donald Trump took the presidency. I think we have seen the continued deepening polarization of our politics over the last couple of decades or so.

[18:10:13] CABRERA: Let's talk about why you are there. The Florida gubernatorial debate. It is one of the most closely watch races of the midterms. Jake Tapper is going to be moderating. Explain why people who don't live in Florida need to care about this race.

CHALIAN: Well, talking about sort of the ideological camp that we sort ourselves in right now as Americans. There's probably no race in the country that better exemplifies that than this race, the Florida governor's race between progressive Democrat Andrew Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee and conservative former congressman Ron Desantis who was running by wholly embracing Donald Trump. They have two fundamentally very different visions for how they would govern the sunshine state here. And so, it is going to be an extremely important debate. It's their first debate.

CNN, Ana, has a brand new poll out in the race conducted by SSRS. And it shows an advantage for the Democrat Andrew Gillum by 12 points, 54 percent to 42 percent among likely voters. I should say this poll doesn't look like nearly any other poll that has been out recently in this race. The last month Quinnipiac did have it with a nine-point lead for Gillum. We await to see more polling in a post-hurricane Michael world to see if this poll is an outlier or if indeed it is catching bit of Democratic enthusiasm here which is what the polls shows.

And if you want to look underneath the numbers as to what is driving it, look at the gender gap that exists here. And we are seeing this nationally as well. But here in Florida, look at that. Andrew Gillum is winning women in this poll by some 26 points. And Ron Desantis is winning men by only seven points. That's an enormous gender gap.

And again, we have been seeing it nationally as well which is giving Republicans some pause about what the midterms have in store.

We also polled the Senate race here between Bill Nelson, the Democratic senator and Rick Scoot, the governor of Florida. That's within the margin of error race. We have got Nelson at 50 percent. Rick Scott at 45 percent. I'm sure that race is going to remain within the margin of error. It's a critical battleground contest that could really help determine which party controls the United States Senate after November 6th.

CABRERA: And David Chalian, I don't think you are going to be sleeping much in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for taking time here for us this evening.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Good to see you.

It is the race for Florida's governor that no one predicted. See Democrat Andrew Gillum and Republican Ron Desantis in the CNN debate live tonight at 8:00 here on CNN.

My next guest has run as a Democrat, a Republican, and an Independent. I will talk to Florida congressman Charlie Crist about the heated political rhetoric ahead of midterms and how he feels about the President labeling Democrats an angry mob.


[18:17:04] CABRERA: Welcome back.

We have live pictures of the CNN stage for tonight's Florida governor debate. Democrat Andrew Gillum will face-off against Republican Ron Desantis and just hours before the two meet on stage, some bad news for Desantis in a GOP. A brand new CNN poll finds him trailing Gillum by whopping 12 points. This just two weeks before voters head to the polls.

Now throughout their campaign Gillum has painted himself as the resistance. Well, Desantis has completely tied himself to Trump. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ron loves playing with the kids.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He reads stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then Mr. Trump said you are fired. I love that part.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is teaching Madison to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make America great again.


CABRERA: With us now someone who knows Florida and its voters incredibly well, Democratic congressman Charlie Crist. He is also the former governor of Florida, an officer he held as a Republican.

Congressman, thanks for being with us.

REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D), FLORIDA: Ana, it is great to be with you. Thank you for having me.

CABRERA: You are a Democrat now. But you were once the Republican governor of Florida as we mentioned. What do you think of Desantis strategy?

CRIST: I think it's unfortunate. I think that unfortunately Ron Desantis has tended to go low rather negative, not projecting a positive future for Florida and Andrew Gillum on the other hand has been very positive trying to tell people what his vision is. What he would like to do if elected in 16 days from today.

And it's been very compelling, frankly. I had the opportunity to spend the morning with him here at several churches in St. Petersburg. And it was an uplifting message about getting health care to people, establishing a minimum wage, trying to fight for people regardless of what the issue might be and to be on their side. And so, I think that Andrew has a very compelling message. He is very genuine. He is very authentic. And I think your viewers will see that tonight.

CABRERA: President Trump's winning strategy has always been his messaging. His closing argument for the midterms, jobs not mobs. What's your response to you and your party being labeled a mob?

CRIST: Well, I don't think it's true. You know, when I see when the President is out on the stump and he is going to different states and holding these rallies, that looks like a mob to me. When I see Democrats and what they are hopeful for for the future, for a better education for their children, for better health care for all of us, to make sure that we are all covered, whether you have a preexisting injury or condition or not. You know, those are the kinds of things that people are hopeful about. That they are joyful about. That's not a mob. That's Americans. And it's Americans wanting a better future and a brighter future.

And when I see, you know, the President out there on the stump and he is, you know, screaming about different people and calling them nicknames and, you know, castigating folks and invoking a mob reaction from those that are in attendance, that's a mob.

[18:20:10] CABRERA: Now, there are examples though, with all due respect, of Republican lawmakers and members of this administration being confronted by large groups of people, being run out of restaurants, being attacked for their political views. It happened to Mitch McConnell just this weekend. Does that reinforce the Republican narrative?

CRIST: I don't think it does. I mean, you are always going to have individuals that act out and that's unfortunate. And that should not happen. You know, I believe in the golden rule. That you should do unto others as you would have done unto you. And I think that all Americans should comport themselves that way.

I certainly know that Andrew Gillum does. And he doesn't intend to go low tonight. He is concerned about, you know, what Ron Desantis may do. And he has said himself, Andrew has said, you know, when they go low, we go vote. And that's important for us to do. We need to go vote. When we vote, we win.

CABRERA: He did say though to our Jake Tapper this morning if Desantis goes there, he is ready to go there too.

Meantime, I want to ask you about another important story we are following. Here is what the President is now saying about the crown prince of Saudi Arabia just today as the investigation into the murder of "Washington Post" journalist Jamal Khashoggi is still underway. He calls the crown prince quote "a strong person." He says he has very good control. He has seen as a person who can keep things under check. And he adds I mean that in a positive way. Should the President be praising the crown prince right now?

CRIST: I don't think so. When we are hearing from the Saudi Arabian government they are admitting that in fact he was murdered at the consulate, I mean, you know, how can you have anything but enormous doubt about what happened there, about what the facts are? And you know, when you don't know exactly what all the facts are, except that the Saudis are admitting that something horrific did occur, how do you praise that? That doesn't make any sense to me and I'm sure it doesn't make sense to the American people.

CABRERA: Do you think there will be a bipartisan response to this?

CRIST: There already has been. I think that Republicans, Democrats and Independents are very concerned about what has happened to this "Washington Post" journalist. And you know, if you are having the appearance of condoning murder, that's horrific. That is intolerable. It is unconscionable. And it should not be tolerated. That's not the kind of leadership we need in the United States of America.

We need to be investigating. We need to be finding the facts. We need to reach appropriate conclusions and not covering for something that looks horrific.

CABRERA: Congressman Charlie Crist, thank you so much for joining us.

CRIST: Thank you. My pleasure, Ana.

CABRERA: There has been deception and there have been lies. Those words now from President Trump has he is casting doubt on Saudi Arabia's claim that Jamal Khashoggi's death was an accident. So what does he plan to do about it?

Your presidential daily brief is next.


[18:27:29] CABRERA: It's been a wild month for Wall Street but will it continue?

CNN Business chief correspondent Christine Romans has your before the bell reports. \


Stock Market volatility is back with a vengeance. It's been a rougher October for stocks. Wall Street swung wildly last week following a big drop the week before.

The Dow is now down about four percent this month. The NASDAQ down seven percent. This week some big tech names report earnings. You have Amazon, Microsoft and Google and Snapchat's parent company as well.

Textile has been hit hard the past few months. They are risky, (INAUDIBLE). So investors are looking for a safer bet. Think banks, utilities and drug makers. Numbers on economic growth also out this week. On Friday, the government releases a first look at third quarter GDP. In the second quarter the U.S. economy grew a strong 4.2 percent. President Trump famously campaigned on a promise of four percent annual growth. So we will see if the third quarter delivers.

In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

CABRERA: Thanks, Christine.

We have these new images just into CNN showing a new angle of journalist Jamal Khashoggi entering the Saudi consulate on October 2nd, the day he disappeared. You can also see his fiancee standing with him as he is scanned by what appears to be security personnel. Khashoggi is later seen standing inside the gate of the consulate as the man who scanned him appears to gesture to another person walking towards Khashoggi.

Meanwhile, President Trump now casting doubt on Saudi Arabia's explanation for the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. It's a shift in tone for Trump who originally called the Saudi story credible. Just two days ago, the Saudi has announced that Khashoggi died accidentally, they say, during a fistfight inside its consulate in Istanbul.

Well, now in a new "Washington Post" interview, President Trump says quote "obviously there's been deception and there's been lies. Their stories are all over the place."

And that brings us to your weekend Presidential brief, the segment we bring you here every Sunday night highlighting some of the most pressing national security information the President will need when he wakes up tomorrow.

And here to bring it to you, joining us, CNN national security analyst and former national security council adviser Sam Vinograd. She spent two years in the Obama administration helping to prep for the President's daily brief.

So Sam, you have worked a lot with the Saudis. You worked even with the Saudi foreign minister who gave an interview on FOX today admitted mistakes were made. How do you think they are reacting to President Trump's reaction so far?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Ana, whenever I visited the kingdom, I have been struck by how much all the public content is the same. And that is because a royal family controls the narrative run everything. There's no free speech and there is no free media. And that's why they are able to the extent to control the narrative around Khashoggi's murder for now. This narrative may have hit a little too close to home for President Trump though. The idea that a controlling boss, in this case, Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, was surrounded by a cadre of officials who may have engaged in criminal activity but he didn't know sounds a lot like what President Trump's legal team says when another member of the campaign staff pleads guilty to a criminal charge. That's very, very eerily consistent.

And in MBS' case, he was just rewarded for the bad behavior of his team. He was given expanded authorities over the intelligence services while being allowed to direct an investigation into activities that he may have been involved with.

The good news is, the only silver lining is that the Saudi investigation isn't the only show in town. We have a separation of powers in this country. And despite what President Trump may want, Congress has already triggered our own investigation under something called the Global Magnitsky Act into what happened.

So while Saudi Arabia may be able to control its findings and its investigation, they can't control us.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Sam, we now know that Turkish President Erdogan and Trump discussed the Khashoggi case in a phone call, according to Turkish state media. We're waiting for more details on that.

And despite failing to comment on potential criminality in Saudi Arabia, President Trump is quick to call people who are coming in that migrant caravan from Honduras criminals. "Hardened criminals" are his words. What kind of national security implications does this have?

VINOGRAD: Well, the administration is pursuing at least two policies to address illegal immigration, one driven by the President's politics and one driven by strategic policy planning.

There are no quick fixes in national security. And that's why, just a few weeks ago, Pence gave a speech, the Vice President, and recommitted the United States to addressing the root drivers of illegal immigration at their source. Not with the border wall but addressing the conditions that drive migrants to head north in their home countries like Honduras.

The President, when he threatens to put up -- to cut off foreign assistance or to build physical security barriers, is therefore directly contradicting his team's own policy. And he's saying, again, that U.S. foreign assistance is dirty money. He's using it to bribe countries to do what he wants at a particular time and threatening to cut off foreign assistance when they're either incapable or unwilling to listen to him be.

And if he does cut off foreign assistance, Ana, it would be really self-defeating. The U.S. government Web site says that this assistance is used to create conditions on the ground in a country like Honduras so that Hondurans don't flee. If he cuts of that aid, he's shooting himself in the foot, at least according to his own Web site.

CABRERA: Immigration is such a divisive issue. It's the kind of issue Russia has seized upon, amplifying it on social media. I mean, just look at the indictment that we saw.

This week, we know that Ambassador John Bolton will be spending some time in Russia, perhaps meeting with President Putin. Do you think election interference will be discussed?

VINOGRAD: I think he may raise it, but I don't think it really matters. I think the cost that we have imposed on Russia like this latest criminal complaint against a Russian national don't really change Putin's life in a material way.

If we do go ahead and withdraw from this Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty as the press is reporting, I actually think it will help Putin. And he's going to be feeling even better because he can signal, well, the United States is an unreliable negotiating partner.

Let's wait and see what Bolton says about his second summit. He went to Moscow last time to prep for the Helsinki summit, so he could be there to lay the groundwork for another Trump-Putin meeting.

CABRERA: We'll be listening, Sam Vinograd.

VINOGRAD: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Good to see you. Thanks.

It is a shocking video of a party gone horribly wrong.




CABRERA: Look at that. Dozens of people injured when a dance floor collapses during a college homecoming weekend in South Carolina. The investigation now underway.


CABRERA: Dozens of Clemson University students are now recovering after they fell through the floor at a football celebration party. They were dancing, they were jumping when the floor just opened up. Watch.




CABRERA: We're told about 30 people were hurt but no life-threatening injuries. Joining us now on the phone is Jaylen Adams who was at that party but luckily avoided falling into that hole.

Jaylan, as we're looking at these pictures, it's pretty remarkable no one was seriously injured. You were there. Walk us through what happened.

JAYLEN ADAMS, STUDENT, CLEMSON UNIVERSITY (via telephone): Really, it was just the normal party going on, and they played a song that everyone is really, like, hip to. And when they played that song, everyone just started jumping around. Some people were dancing, but most of everybody was jumping around and stuff like that.

And then, eventually, you feel the floor moving. Like, it felt like the floor was moving, like going up and down like a trampoline. And at that point, I told my friends, like, hey, like, we need to -- we need to try to get -- try to move from this spot because this floor might cave in at any second.

And as soon as I finished my sentence, we heard like a big crack. And after that big crack, the floor just fell through. And luckily, I was close enough to the balcony door where I could just take one step back and I was pretty safe on the balcony. But my friends fell through the floor, too, but they --

[18:40:13] CABRERA: Wow.

ADAMS (via telephone): They weren't hurt in any way.

CABRERA: Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. That's -- that is wild. I mean, you look and it's amazing, again, that few -- people weren't hurt. Your friends, as you mentioned, fell through the floor. Officials are telling us 30 people were injured.

ADAMS (via telephone): Yes.

CABRERA: Again, no life-threatening injuries. But what do you know about the injuries? What did you see?

ADAMS (via telephone): Well, from what I saw, it was just -- I saw a lot of blood on the floor when I looked down. I could see some injuries like as far as, like, deep cuts and scars and things like that from people. I didn't see anything like as far as like broken bones or anything, but those are things that I've heard that happened to some people.

But as far as what I saw, I just saw like a lot of deep cuts on some people. And I also saw people, like, lifting their heads up and all that. When they stand up, blood on them and stuff like that.

CABRERA: Well, I'm glad you and your friends are OK. Sounds like a really scary situation. Jaylen Adams, thank you for joining us.

ADAMS (via telephone): Yes, thank you.

CABRERA: They are the victims you seldom hear about, children of notorious killers who grabbed the headlines. Coming up, CNN's Lisa Ling looks at how they struggle to cope with the horrific acts committed by their loved ones. A preview of a brand new episode of "THIS IS LIFE," next.


ZAK EBRAHIM, SON OF WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMBER EL SAYYID NOSAIR: When I look at this picture, I wonder if it's a fun family photo or if he was, you know, taking it as some kind of surveillance.



[18:46:10] CABRERA: All too often, we're reporting on shootings, bombings, and other violent crimes. And while these tragedies trigger investigations and public mourning of the victims, those closest to the offender are often going through a very private struggle of their loved ones and the horrible acts they committed.

Tonight on an all-new episode of "THIS IS LIFE," Lisa Ling looks at what it's like to be the child of a mass murder. Here is the preview.


LISA LING, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we're meeting two children of notorious killers.

LING (on camera): Your father was responsible for so much carnage.

EBRAHIM: I spent so much of my life wondering why he chose the path he did.

LING (voice-over): What's it like to be the child of a murder?

JENN CARSON, DAUGHTER OF SERIAL KILLER JAMES CARSON: It is just unimaginable to go from thinking that your father is prince charming to realizing he's the boogeyman and the boogeyman is real.

LING (voice-over): And what, if anything, can they tell us about what motivated their fathers to kill?

EBRAHIM: I couldn't put together how a loving father could also be capable of such terrible things.


CABRERA: Lisa Ling joins us now.

Lisa, this looks fascinating. You talked to these two people whose fathers committed terribly violent acts. One was involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the other was a serial killer in the San Francisco area.

What did they tell you about how they learned about what their fathers did and what kind of impact has it had on their lives?

LING: Well, Ana, it's true. It seems like not a day goes by without hearing news of killings whether they are serial killings or mass killings.

And the two people we profile in this episode -- Jenn Carson, whose father was a pretty notorious serial killer, she found out from her mother. She was a young student in school and her mother pulled her out to say that her father had just committed murder.

And Zach, whose father was a conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, he was watching the news and heard about the World Trade Center and went to his mom's room and said you should know about what's happening -- again, he was also a young child -- only to find out that his father took part in it.

And how has it affected their lives? I mean, it definitely has impacted their lives in so many ways. In the case of Jenn Carson, she suffers from mental illness and said that her father also did. And she has become a mental health advocate and tries to help people whose family members are incarcerated.

And Zach is -- he's an author. And he is trying to promote a message of trying to figure out how to help people not become extremists or pursue those routes.

CABRERA: And so do they have an understanding of why their parents did what they did?

LING: They do. In the case of Jenn Carson's father who was the serial killer, she says that he suffered from mental illness. He got to a point where he was barely able to be -- just carry on normal conversations, and he was a very, very educated man.

And in Zach's case, it's really interesting because his father was also a very educated man but just continued to have, door after door, slammed in his face. He went through a lot of personal trials. He started going to a mosque and there was a very charismatic, firebrand mullah who was in that mosque, and he was in a vulnerable state in life. And he talks about how someone in that state can be so easily influenced by a powerful orator.

CABRERA: All right, Lisa Ling, we'll watch and learn more. Thank you very much for being here, as always.

[18:50:01] LING: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Be sure to tune in tonight to an all-new episode of "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING." It airs at 10:00 p.m. only on CNN.

It's the biggest stage in the world, but reports are Rihanna turned down the Super Bowl halftime show because of Colin Kaepernick. And now, another A-list actress is following suit. Details ahead.


CABRERA: Superstar singer Rihanna says no to the Super Bowl and Hollywood can't stop talking about it. Rihanna reportedly turning down an offer to headline the Super Bowl halftime, all to show her support for Colin Kaepernick, the former NFL star who first took a knee during the national anthem.

[18:55:05] Kaepernick hasn't played in the NFL since the final game of the 2016 regular season. The band Maroon 5, by the way, is reportedly set to headline the Super Bowl halftime show now.

With me now, PeopleTV anchor, Lola Ogunnaike.

So good to have you with us, Lola.

LOLA OGUNNAIKE, PEOPLETV HOST: Always good to see you too.

CABRERA: Oh, and I love that you got the blue memo.

OGUNNAIKE: I got the blue memo. It's a blue wave.


CABRERA: Nothing says, really, royal. Royalty.


CABRERA: What are you hearing about this situation with Rihanna? OGUNNAIKE: Well, people have wondered if this is a good move for

Rihanna or a bad move for Rihanna because, let's face it, Colin Kaepernick is the most polarizing sports figure in modern day history.

I think it may be a good move for Rihanna, though, because, one, we're discussing it; two, it's not as if Rihanna is hurting for attention. She already has 65 million Instagram followers.


OGUNNAIKE: She's worth reportedly $210 million according to, so she's got the money. She already has the visibility. But some people are saying, but you don't turn down the Super Bowl.


OGUNNAIKE: Over a hundred million viewers tune in to watch the halftime show. It's essentially a 12-minute commercial for you. And Rihanna reportedly has a new album in the works and a new tour in the works, so she is walking away from a significant platform. But she has decided to put principle over profit and decided to align herself with Colin Kaepernick.

CABRERA: And in a way, it's protest of its own, I suppose.

OGUNNAIKE: It is. And now --

CABRERA: And not showing up, in some ways, can be more of a protest than actually showing up and kneeling in Rihanna's instance.

CABRERA: It's a controversial stance to take no matter which way you go, I suppose, but she is getting a lot of support. Including from Amy Schumer, right?

OGUNNAIKE: Which is really interesting because you don't really think Amy Schumer and Rihanna -- not that they're not friends, but you just don't really think of the two of them together when you --

CABRERA: Right, one is a singer, one is an actress.


CABRERA: Moving in different circles maybe.

OGUNNAIKE: And Amy Schumer and Jennifer Lawrence, yes, because they're publicly friends, but the fact that Amy Schumer took to Instagram to not only support Rihanna but she asked that Maroon 5 also boycott the Super Bowl.

And Amy Schumer said that she refuses to appear in any Super Bowl commercials, which is a huge step for her. Amy Schumer has already been clear of how she feels about gun rights. She's anti-NRA, and she's very clear about the fact that she wants guns out of schools.

But the fact that she is siding also with Colin Kaepernick and has asked White women, in particular, White women of privilege, to stand up for their sisters and brothers of color in this struggle for civil rights is something that was also very powerful. Especially coming from Amy Schumer who publicly has not been this political when it comes to issues of race.

CABRERA: Yes. Yes, it's really interesting. I have to ask to ask --

OGUNNAIKE: But when --

CABRERA: No, go ahead.

OGUNNAIKE: Yes. Well, my favorite quote -- because she posted a very long, detailed caption, but my favorite quote from Amy Schumer's caption on Instagram was, the hottest thing a guy can do is get down on one knee not to propose but to reject the treatment of his teammates by this country.

CABRERA: Wow, wow.

OGUNNAIKE: So I thought that was very, very powerful.

CABRERA: So it was her moment to make a political statement.


CABRERA: As you point out, she hasn't been particularly political.

OGUNNAIKE: She clearly took a big swig of wine before she made that political statement.

CABRERA: I know. I was looking and I'm thinking, what does that have to do with taking a knee?


CABRERA: To each their own.


CABRERA: But is the Super Bowl halftime show what it was all cracked up to be at one time? Because, I mean, you did talk about the benefits, the viewership.


CABRERA: But, I think, as an artist, it has to be a ton of work.

OGUNNAIKE: It is a ton of work and they're not paid to do it. I didn't realize that, but they are not paid to do this. So if anything, it actually costs them. The tradeoff has always been the visibility but, again, Rihanna. I guess she decided, I don't need the money.


OGUNNAIKE: I don't necessarily need the visibility, and I want to take this political stand and it's worth it for me to use my platform to align myself with somebody that I believe has been mistreated unfairly by the NFL.

CABRERA: Lola, thank you so much. It's always good to see you.


CABRERA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. We're rolling into the 7:00 p.m. hour. And tonight, Florida, Florida, Florida, the state that is no stranger to being ground zero for critical political elections.

It's, again, the place to watch as two candidates competing in one of the most high-profile governors' races in the country take to the stage one hour from now. And this is a CNN debate moderated by Jake Tapper.

On one side, you have Andrew Gillum, a rising star in the Democratic Party. On the other, Republican Ron DeSantis, a candidate who has openly embraced President Trump and his policies.

Let's get right to CNN's senior political analyst Mark Preston live in Tampa for us, the site of tonight's debate. Mark somehow describes this race as the epitome of politics in the Trump era.

Explain why.

MARK PRESTON, CNN EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF POLITICAL PROGRAMMING: Yes. You know, I think that that's the correct way to describe it. Look, when we talk about whether President Trump has had a large effect on the electorate, specifically the Republican electorate, well, he has here in Florida. Absolutely.

He got behind Congressman Ron DeSantis who is in -- well, in a very competitive primary. He got solidly behind him.

[19:00:01] If Ron DeSantis goes on to win, the congressman then is going to be facing a Democrat, Andrew Gillum, the Tallahassee mayor who had no shot of winning, very much a long shot going, heading into this race.