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CONNECT THE WORLD
Global Skepticism Over Riyadh's Version Of Events; Injuries Reported After Floor Collapse In S. Carolina; U.S. To Pull Out Of Russia Nuclear Forces Act; Hondurans Resume March Towards U.S. After Entering Mexico; Wash Post: Saudis Trying To Cover Up Khashoggi Killing; The Last Days Of A Fearless Journalist. Aired 11-12p ET
Aired October 21, 2018 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00] LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: -- international voices is openly casting doubt on the narrative from Saudi Arabia over the
disappearance and death of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Even the U.S. President who had defended the kingdom appears to be changing
his stance. Donald Kohn told The Washington Post on Saturday, obviously, there's been a deception and there's been lies. But he stops sort of
blaming the Saudi Crown Prince for Khashoggi's death. Mr. Trump told the newspaper, nobody has told me he's responsible. Nobody has told me he's
not responsible. We haven't reached that point.
Well, meanwhile, CNN has learned from a source close to the Saudi royal palace that Khashoggi's body was handed over to a local collaborator. That
source said the Saudis don't know what happened to it afterward but President Trump seems to think the mystery will eventually be solved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No we don't. Nobody seems to know. Somebody knows but nobody of the various investigation groups at
this moment know but we'll find out. It's a concern we'd like to find out where it is and what happened and I think we're inching our way there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Istanbul and our Sam Kylie is following the Saudi response from Riyadh. I want to start first
with Nic looking at the international reaction because President Trump here in the U.S. has come under a lot of criticism for believing, his
inclination to believe the changing narrative from the Saudis but it's also testing the relationship of the U.K. and its partnership with Saudi Arabia.
Just take us through some of the International reaction you're seeing today.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Sure. I think the strongest reaction really is coming from the group of three principal
European nations at least in terms of global diplomacy Germany, France, and the U.K. A joint statement today saying that there was fear and concern that there may have been a
violent -- that Jamal Khashoggi may have met a violent death but the announcement that that had actually happened that he was dead has come as a
shock. And what they're saying is now that there needs to be a credible investigation into the events of the 2nd of October that there needs to be
in their words credible facts revealed and they say that their judgment essentially on their future relationship with Saudi Arabia is going to
depend on what those credible facts revealed, that the quality and strength of the relationship with Saudi Arabia depends on shared values between
these countries and Saudi Arabia, shared value of respect for international norms.
So essentially what they're saying at the moment is they're shocked to hear that Jamal Khashoggi died in this way, that what they're hearing so far
doesn't measure up for them, that there needs to be more credible information forthcoming, and that they will make a judgment based on that
information on the future relationship. And I think perhaps a strong line coming from Dominic Raab this morning, the British Secretary for overseeing
Brexit negotiations for the European Union on one of the British political commentary chat shows this morning delivering a very, very strong message
to the Saudis. This is what he had to say redo his statement here.
I don't think it's credible, he says, talking about what he has heard and what the British government is heard from Saudi officials so far about what
happened to Jamal Khashoggi. I don't think it's credible. I think it's a terrible case. We support the Turkish investigation into it and the
British government wants to see people held to account for that death. I think there is a serious question mark over the account that's been given.
And he's talking about the account there from Saudi officials. So at the moment, the swift test the Europe at least if not for President Trump is
one of a heavy, heavy dose of skepticism and a long way to go for Saudi officials to convince their European allies that Khashoggi's death was as
an accident as essentially saying at the moment.
KINKADE: Yes, absolutely, Nic. Certainly, a lot of skepticism, a lot of questions. I want to go to Sam for a little bit more on that because
that's what we're hearing from the West. Within Saudi Arabia, how is this story being portrayed?
SAM KILEY, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, within Saudi Arabia there's an interesting split if you like, in terms of how the story's being
portrayed. In the Arabic language newspapers it's pretty straight down the middle quoting the government assurances that they'll be transparency, not
reacting with any kind of horror, much less surprise that Mr. Khashoggi is now agreed to be dead by the government here, that 18 people have been
arrested, and that five very senior officials have been dismissed from their positions including two very senior officials that were very close
indeed to the Crown Prince. They're playing it very straight down the middle. They're getting a lot of support for that line, Saudi Arabia, that
is from regional allies Jordan, Kuwait, really most of the Islamic world has rode in behind the official position of the Saudis that their
investigation so far suggests that Mr. Khashoggi died accidentally during a struggle in the consulate with Saudi officials.
[11:05:41] But there's been an interesting development in terms of how the English-language press is handling it. This is the Arab news. It is a
newspaper that Mr. Khashoggi used to be the deputy editor of. Front page picture of him, he was a good man, goodbye gentle giant. Then on the page
three on the inside, an entire page devoted to their former colleague, one former colleague saying he was a huggable panda, another saying he was
passionate about Saudi Arabia. And then there's a lead article by the editor-in-chief, the Faisal Abbas and in it he says, I think it's very well
worth pointing out. He writes among other things he says of Khashoggi, he repeatedly declared his love for the kingdom and its people even though he
disagreed with some of the practices of the current Saudi leadership, he remained loyal.
Now, this is I think an indication of two things. The first is there is a cynical view that within the Saudi establishment the royal court is trying
to establish the idea that Mr. Khashoggi was by no means an enemy. He was a friendly critic. They didn't want him dead, perhaps they wanted him to
come home. The other part of that statement by Mr. Abbas though is pointing at the system and reminding them that in the view of his
journalistic colleagues here, some of whom I've spoken to today, he was seen as a patriot and loyal to the government not a danger to the future of
stability of Saudi Arabia but a friendly critic and by implication it was therefore unconscionable that he would be subjected to some kind of
interrogation in the consulate much less killed. Lynda?
KINKADE: Absolutely. All right, Sam Kiley for us and Nic Robertson. Good to have you boys with us on this story. Thanks so much. Well, Canada is
just the latest country to condemn Saudi Arabia calling the kingdom's version of events lacking consistency and credibility. And even though the
White House had initially given Riyadh the benefit of the doubt, Congress has been less accepting of the Saudi explanation. Take a listen to what
Republican Senator Bob Corker told our Jake Tapper about the Saudi Crown Prince.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: Do I think he did it? Yes, I think he did it. If he did it, then I think there should be a collective response.
I've talked to ambassadors from other countries in the West. They're looking for the United States for leadership on this issue but they also
want to make sure that they coordinate a response with us. They too have arms sales to Saudi Arabia. They do have interest there just like we do.
And so this is something where I think you're going to see the United States, United Kingdom, France, Germany working collectively with others.
If he did this, to respond in an appropriate way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Strong words there. CNN's Sarah Westwood is live for us in Washington. And Sarah, I want ask you a bit more about President Trump's
reaction to this story because he has seem to -- seem following a Saudi line buying what they're saying quite closely. But in an interview with
The Washington Post, his tone has changed somewhat. He said that he knows he's been fed lies and deception but he also cited that it's coming from a
country that he describes as an incredible ally.
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. President Trump has sort of been facing this challenge the entire time which is wanting to
preserve this key strategic partnership between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, but also not wanting to be criticized on the international stage for
inadequate response. Now, President Trump hasn't really laid out what's on the table in terms of a response to the killing of Jamal Khashoggi,
although he has taken off the table the idea of scrapping a proposed arms sale to Saudi Arabia worth billions of dollars and this is coming as
Republicans and Democrats are publicly rejecting the Saudis explanation for what happened to Khashoggi. But even so there's still not that much
appetite even on Capitol Hill where the criticism is louder to disrupt that key relationship with Saudi Arabia.
For example, some of the lawmakers pushing for congressional action are only pushing to impose sanctions under the Magnitsky Act. That just allows
the U.S. to sanction individual human rights abusers. It's not a tool for broader consequences for Saudi Arabia for example through economic or
national sanctions which would possibly have an effect on the overall Saudi relationship. So the president is looking for some kind of way to respond
to the killing of Khashoggi without disrupting his broader goals in the Middle East and those of course center around this partnership with Saudi
[11:10:33] KINKADE: All right, Sarah Westwood, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much for joining us from Washington. Well, a developing
story from the U.S. Thirty people in South Carolina hurt when the floor of an apartment clubhouse literally collapsed from underneath them. The
injured landed in the basement of the building. Police are now investigating how this could possibly have happened. Well, CNN's Polo
Sandoval is following the story from our New York Bureau and joins us now live. Certainly very terrifying everyone involved. We've heard from one
of the people that filmed some of that vision. I just want to play for our viewers some of that audio from the interview he gave this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY TESTER, WITNESSED THE COLLAPSE: It really took minutes for firefighters to get there and police to get there, everybody got there
quick. I mean, I did see like people because we were held there for a long time, I saw people with like hold their arms and like I saw people with
like bloody legs and stuff like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Absolutely scary. What more can you tell us, Polo?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's amazing, Lynda, when you hear from Jeremy Tester, he describes standing just two feet away from the dance
floor that literally gave out from under them. Let me give you the quick backstory on what took place here. This was last night as these partygoers
mainly many of them students at nearby Clemson University were gathering at an apartment complex mainly at this common area, this clubhouse if you
will. They were gathering there they were at a private party when the floor literally gave out here as you saw in that very dramatic video
sending dozens of people into the basement below you are -- at some point, you can even see these people trying to crawl out with the massive bodies
Good news to report of course coming from police here that the injury so far lacerations, broken bones but it does not go beyond that. Authorities
telling us that really that is nothing short of a miracle the fact that nobody was severely injured or possibly even killed here because when you
look at the situation there, we should mention that there had been plenty of celebrations that happened on that campus nearby all weekend long. It
is homecoming weekend. They had just defeated one of their main football rivals so there were a lot of celebrations and this particular the one, it
did certainly take a terrible turn, Lynda. So you can just imagine what some of these young partygoers went through.
The university president at nearby Clemson University saying that obviously that those people are in his thoughts and prayers and hoping that they will
make that quick recovery. And according to the information that we have yes, that will happen their injuries will eventually heal but the emotional
trauma, of course, the psychological trauma is something that they certainly will have to deal with.
Finally, as far as the potential cause here we just don't know yet. Investigators will have to go and try to see if maybe that rumors
overcapacity or perhaps if it was an issue with the construction. We just don't know. I will say that the managers of the property do tell CNN that
the property was relatively new. It was built in 2004, Lynda.
KINKADE: All right, Polo Sandoval for us. Of course, that certainly those dramatic pictures certainly lucky no one was killed. Thanks so much.
SANDOVAL: Thanks, Lynda.
KINKADE: Well, still to come, U.S. President Trump says the U.S. will scrap a 30-year old arms control treaty with Russia. We're going to go
live to Moscow next for that story.
[11:15:00] KINKADE: Welcome back. You're watching CNN and this is "CONNECT THE WORLD" with me, Lynda Kincaid. With tensions between the U.S.
and Russia are flaring up yet again, this time over a decade's old nuclear weapons treaty, U.S. President Donald Trump says Russia is not holding up
its end of the deal. He says he's pulling the country out of the path. Meanwhile, Russia's accused Washington of violating the agreement and has
warned it could take retaliatory measures if the U.S. makes good on its threat. Our Frederik Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow with more on this
story. And Fred, this was an agreement signed back in the 1980s. President Trump claims Russia has repeatedly violated it. What is this
treaty and what happens if the U.S. ends it?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a treaty of intermediate-range nuclear weapons and it's -- you're right, it
was signed in the 1980s especially due to concerns from the Europeans because these nuclear weapons are extremely powerful but because they're
only intermediate-range, that means it doesn't take very long from the point that they're launched to the time that they strike giving any sort of
civilian population very little time to get into shelters. So it was a big bit of concern in Europe at the time and of course in Russia as well about
these weapons and that's how this treaty initially came together.
Now the U.S. believes it's no longer in its interest because it believes that the Russians have been violating it for a very long time. Here's what
we learned today.
PLEITGEN: The U.S. has long been accusing Russia of violating the INF treaty by developing and deploying medium-range nuclear-capable missiles.
Now President Trump says America is axing the agreement.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're the ones that have stayed in the agreement and we've honored the agreement but Russia has not
unfortunately honored the agreement so we're going to terminate the agreement. We're going to pull out.
PLEITGEN: During his visit to Moscow in the coming days, National Security Advisor John Bolton is expected to formally tell the Russians that America
is leaving the INF treaty. INF stands for intermediate nuclear forces. The treaty was signed in 1987 between the U.S. and the Soviet Union and
ultimately led to almost 2,700 medium-range nuclear missiles being withdrawn. Experts saying by and large the agreement has worked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was designed to provide a measure of strategic stability on the continent of Europe by banning missiles of a range between
300 and 3,400 miles both cruise and ballistic missiles so it was really meant to kind of take the temperature down and it resulted in the
destruction of literally thousands of missiles and it has been in effect ever since.
PLEITGEN: Russia denies violating the treaty and accuses the U.S. of reaching it by developing anti-missile systems. Vladimir Putin recently
making what some felt were troubling remarks about possible nuclear warfare.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): In this situation we kind of expect that someone will use nuclear weapons against
us. We do not do anything ourselves. Well, yes but then the aggressors should still know that vengeance is inevitable, that he will be destroyed
and we are the victims of aggression. And as martyrs, we will go to heaven and they will simply die.
PLEITGEN: The U.S. also believes the INF treaty puts it at a disadvantage versus a resurgent China which is not part of the agreement, another reason
the administration says to pull out of the deal.
[11:20:02] PLEITGEN: So you can feel there, Lynda, the tensions between the U.S. and Russia really ratcheting up once again in the wake of all this
and of course with all the other things that have been going on in that relationship basically since 2016. And we do have national Security
Adviser John Bolton in Russia the next couple of days with some very top level meetings but I think it's safe to say he's not going to get the
warmest of welcomes from the Russians, Lynda.
KINKADE: Yes. I can't expect he'll get a very warm welcome given what's been said over the coming day -- over the past days. But just give us a
sense of Russia's take because Russia says they haven't had this officially in writing at all. Do they believe this is just a threat, a way to get
them to a negotiating table?
PLEITGEN: Yes, that's -- that is really the big question. I think the Russians at this point in time aren't really clear and what exactly all of
this means because you heard from President Trump, his statement, there really wasn't any clarification about whether or not this means that the
U.S. has made a final decision and it's out of the agreement or whether or not there might still be some sort of wiggle room to maybe salvage this
And it's interesting when you look at some of the things that top-level Russian politicians have said over the course of the day, a lot of them
denouncing all the Senate's could have catastrophic consequences, but all of them saying look we don't know whether or not the U.S. made this as a
final decision or whether or not there could still be the possibility to maybe do some sort of negotiation about all this. And that's one of the
things that the Kremlin which came out today said as well. They said look, we will want an explanation from John Bolton when he's here in Moscow and I
guess in the next couple of days we are going to know more. And I think a lot of that is going to determine a lot about how the relations between the
U.S. and Russia are going to move forward, Lynda.
KINKADE: That will be a busy few days of John Bolton. Frederick Pleitgen, always good to have you with us. Thanks so much.
KINKADE: Well, let's get some more analysis on this. I want to bring in Leslie Vinjamuri. She is the Head of the U.S. and the Americas Programme
at Chatham House and joins us now from London. Good to have you with us.
LESLIE VINJAMURI, HEAD, U.S. AND THE AMERICAS PROGRAMME AT CHATHAM HOUSE: Thank you.
KINKADE: This obviously isn't the first time we've heard about Russia violating this treaty seen and reported back as recently as 2014 that the
U.S. had accused Russia of violating it and that it had alerted NATO that only recently had NATO confirmed that, and this is faster the first time
that Donald Trump has pulled out of an international treaty so is this a bluff or do you think this is just his way of renegotiating?
VINJAMURI: Well, it's not the first time that Trump has pulled out of a treaty but remember that Trump has had a very different position on Russia
than he has with respect to a number of other issues. What the real game changer here I think is John Bolton who clearly has for a very long time
opposed arms control deals, doesn't like cooperation, cooperative deals in general, and certainly has been opposed to this particular deal since at
least 2011, probably longer. So that's the game changer on this dimension and it's the thing that's also likely to send a signal that is real and not
a bluff for those who've been watching this administration very carefully and who have been watching John Bolton for a very long time.
KINKADE: So what are the risks here if the U.S. does simply rip it up? Could this spark an arms race?
VINJAMURI: Yes. And this is you know, the critical question. What's the best way to deal with what have been violations of the treaty that
President Obama called out as early as 2014 testing, and again deployment in 2017 Obama called out again. But this is the best mechanism to stay in
the treaty, to continue that cooperation, to continue a program or to accelerate a program of pressure of perhaps America investing in its own
research and its own weapons development on this dimension or is it to simply abandon the treaty.
And the risk here, of course, is first of all, the optics are terrible. America once again walking away from a very significant agreement which
despite the claims that Russia hasn't been complying has nonetheless produced a great degree of stability over a very long period of time. And
if you think you know, what is the signal that sends and what are the -- what are the consequences likely to be, it's hard to make the case that
this puts America Russia or the rest of the world in a better position if the goal is stability especially on this question of nuclear arms.
KINKADE: Absolutely. And Donald Trump certainly not afraid to walk away from any international agreement as he has done so in the past. But China
is not part of this treaty and therefore doesn't face any of the sort of constraints developing new intermediate-range missiles. In fact the U.S.
Pacific Command said 95 percent of the missiles China is developing would violate this treaty if they were a part of it. What do you think is going
to bring Russia and China to the table here?
VINJAMURI: Yes, so there is a real question about whether the broader thinking I'm pulling out of this treaty is driven by a number of hawks who
would like America to take a much more aggressive line when it comes to deterrence in the South China Seas and in responding to what's perceived as
a very significant threat from China and having America in a deal that restricts its ability to invest in intermediate-range forces and China not
in that deal is something that is seen as a concern.
[11:25:18] But again, you have to ask the question, is the decision to pull out likely to produce a better effect. And if we if it leads to a
situation where the United States begins to invest and to draw up, build its forces, this is likely to trigger a whole series of dynamics to make
other powers more insecure, to invest more, the implications, the potential consequences for an arms race are of course very significant not only with
respect to Russia but with respect to China and beyond.
So it's a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly, that should be thought through very strategically, and I think the concern in this particular
context in this particular -- with respect to this particular administration is that those decisions aren't being fully vetted not only
within the administration but across the range of very serious experts of which there are many in the United States and in Europe. And remember the
final thing I think are a very significant thing to remember is that this once again draws a line right between the United States and its European a
NATO allies which are very much opposed to this particular decision.
KINKADE: So what does Russia want here because it seems like Russia believes this is not any sort of official statement or move on this, they
seem to think that this is a threat but they have their retaliation if it goes ahead? What could that mean?
VINJAMURI: Yes, undoubtedly Russia will see this as threatening. It will increase a sense of insecurity but it also puts Russia in the position
where it has no reason to -- if it -- assuming that it does have an interest in developing its capacity and deploying intermediate-range
forces, it has now no longer has a reason to hide that factor to hold back, right, even if it has been violating the terms of the treaty. There's an
argument that the treaty is still exercised a very and degree of restraint over Russia. That -- if you take that away then the consequences are like
to be very real, especially if it feels that America is now going to get into this game. And so you can see the risk that that insecurity
accelerates and drives further competition which won't be productive or stabilizing.
KINKADE: Absolutely. Leslie Vinjamuri, it's good to get your analysis and perspective, Head of the U.S. and the Americas Programme at Chatham House,
thanks so much.
VINJAMURI: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, live from Atlanta, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, migrants on the move at the Mexico-Guatemala border. We're going to have a
live report when we come back.
[11:31:30] KINKADE: Welcome back. You're watching CNN, and this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Lynda Kinkade.
Crowds of Honduran migrants are on the move this morning between Guatemala and Mexico. They're resuming their march towards the United States after
swimming or crossing the river by raft. It comes as more than 600 people have requested asylum in Mexico, including some pregnant women and one
minor child who was traveling alone.
Well, thousands of other migrants remain camped out on the Guatemalan side of the (INAUDIBLE) Bridge. Patrick Oppman is with the caravan on the
Guatemala-Mexico border, and he filed this report.
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some crossed into Mexico from Guatemala by boat. Others waited or swam just barely. The thousands of
migrants, mostly Hondurans said they were fleeing poverty and violence. Many are looking to reunite with loved ones.
Brian Conodrilles, came across the river in a boat a week after being deported to his native Honduras from the U.S. where he'd lived for most of
his life and left behind a wife and daughter.
Why do you need to get back?
BRIAN CONODRILLES, TRYING TO REACH UNITED STATES: My daughter. You know that's the first thing. You know, I didn't have my dad when I was a kid,
you know, at all, and I don't want this thing for her.
OPPMANN: On Friday, Mexican police stop the estimated 4,000 strong caravan of migrants dead in their tracks on a bridge that joins Mexico and
Guatemala, the bridge became a holding cell. One without bathrooms or water or mercy from the brutal Sun with the crush of migrants waited to see
if they would be allowed to pass.
Finally, people like Blanca Lydia with traveling with her three children couldn't take it anymore.
"The truth is we're all going to jump in the river," she says, "and keep going forward."
Mexican police watched as the migrants took to the river. But this time didn't try to stop them. So, this is what desperation has driven these
people too. They were not able to cross the bridge. So, now they've come across on rafts. Some of them are very heavy loaded, some of them with
small kids, carrying all they have on their back, and now they're going to get off here, finally on the Mexican side and continue the journey north to
the United States.
Maria fled the violence of Honduras eight years ago. She's come the river to see if her son will cross here. She was in a caravan and his cell phone
died a day ago. Now, she can't reach him.
"I'm worried because he told me that I wait for him by the river," she says. "Until he comes, I will stay here."
After a week traveling, many of these migrants are out of money and hope is fading. But they say they have no choice but to continue on. Patrick
Oppmann, CNN, on the Mexico-Guatemala border.
KINKADE: Well, Patrick Oppmann is walking with the migrants right now and joins me on the phone. And Patrick, despite the fact that Mexico is trying
to deter these migrants, it seems that the number of people trying to cross is actually growing.
OPPMANN: Yes, Lynda, and both for directions, all you can see to the horizon is thousands of Central American, mainly Honduran migrants who are
now making the long journey north. There are police all around us, have to go around us all morning. We've seen hundreds of police and anti-riot
here. Helicopters flying over us. But so, they have far -- they haven't intervened.
It just perhaps too many people, they are staging buses ahead of us in case anyone gets tired and wants to be taken to a shelter. They, of course,
encouraging people to turn around and head home. Even offering bus rides back to Honduras. But the people we are with have been traveling for a
People carrying children, people carrying all their belongings, people have sold everything they own to get where they are right now, which is simply
walking and stifling each hundreds of miles of road still ahead into U.S. and a very uncertain future.
[11:35:33] KINKADE: Patrick, those against immigration in the U.S., say, these migrants should enter the country legally. From those you're
speaking to have you put that question to them?
OPPMANN: Yes, but most of the people that I've talked to this morning seem to be people that cross the river where we were yesterday. You know, in
the morning, people seem to be waiting on the bridge, and then just the heat got to be too much and they realized that it was just a trickle of
people that Mexican authorities were along through that bridge checkpoint. And they realized very quickly that you could just come down and off the
bridge, as we showed in the piece.
And either wave or swim or take a raft to cross the water, the short expanse of a river there. And so, I've actually seen people that we saw
swimming yesterday. And they are here with us today.
So, these are illegal immigrants, but what's been the really striking is the small Mexican communities that we've been going through have been
coming out to offer food and water, even clothing so it's a very different kind of reception that illegal immigrants will probably receive elsewhere
in the world.
So far, at least, the Mexican people have been trying to help them, and the Mexican few police while keeping a very close eye on this situation have
kept a distance, have not tried to interfere with this caravan that is thousands of migrants that is heading north with the objective how
realistic it is or not. I can't say, but of reaching the United States.
KINKADE: All right. Patrick Oppmann, good to have you on this story. We will speak to you again soon on the Mexico-Guatemala border. Thanks so
I would return now to our top story. Turkey's president, says he will make a statement on the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi on Tuesday. It
comes as the U.S. president is apparently now skeptical of Saudi Arabia's official explanation about the case.
And so, a watch, The Washington Post where Khashoggi was a columnist. The publisher issued a blunt statement Saturday, reading, "This is not an
explanation. It is a cover-up."
When Jamal Khashoggi's editor at The Washington Post Karen Attiah, joins me now from Washington. Good to have you with us, Karen.
KAREN ATTIAH, GLOBAL OPINION EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: And thanks for having me.
KINKADE: You have called the Saudi explanation of Khashoggi's death, B.S. How do you feel watching away this is unraveled with one lie after the
ATTIAH: I mean, it's -- it adds an element of being infuriated on top of being incredibly sad and grieving. A writer who has gotten to know in the
last year. The idea that -- you know, a security partner, and this ally the special relationship for years, the United States has tried to preserve
could lie to the world for -- you know, 17, 18 days is just unfathomable.
Andin the cover-up like publisher, Fred Ryan said is insulting, frankly, to the intelligence. Jamal is not someone who would get into a fight with
anyone much less 15 other men.
But I think, right now it is on the Turks, they've been the ones who've been largely driving this narrative and at the very least, if it wasn't for
the Turks leaking to the press through newspapers, perhaps, the Saudis would have never admitted anything. So, you know, we're all anxiously
awaiting what Erdogan -- President Erdogan might have to say about this case.
KINKADE: Karen, U.S. President Trump was very quick to toy the Saudi line, believing the Saudi King that officials there had no idea where Khashoggi
was, and then, a few days later, believing their next story that he died after a fistfight and calling that story, credible.
And now, afternoon too with your paper has said that he believes, he was lied to you, there was some deception. What does hit the message he has on
this -- what sort of message does it send? His position on this send to other leaders of regimes like this?
ATTIAH: It says a message to other leaders who are doing very similar things that they can do it and get away with it. And that they can do it
in that the relationship that they have with the United States will protect them from any sort of -- any sort of consequences.
You know, as far as Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, something that Jamal told me himself. Jamal who's very close with the royal family for many
years, actually, is that nothing happens especially is an operation of this magnitude 15 men coming in on private planes, coming in with an autopsy
expert. Nothing like this would happen without the knowledge and consent of the Crown Prince.
And even Saud al-Qahtani, the communications are MBS his right-hand man said in a tweet last year that he doesn't do anything without the knowledge
and consent of the Crown Prince.
So, you know, in our eyes, Mohammed bin Salman is still a suspect number one. And I think as far as Trump's response, hopefully, he understands and
knows how the Saudi Kingdom works. And he should know better, frankly. And know that, of course, any explanation is going to try to protect this
[11:41:16] KINKADE: At Saudi Arabia, as you well aware, say they are investigating this. They have made a number of arrests, they have stood
down a number of people. But looking at the pages of -- the front pages of papers here like I've got the New York Times, and The Washington Post
This story after story of journalists not wanting to let this story go. And also willing to dig up other information on what is going on with Saudi
Arabia's involvement in other areas of the world.
Just give us a sense of whether there is more to come on this and how you're going to keep the spotlight on this issue going forward?
ATTIAH: Sure. Well, I mean, particularly, Jamal's case will still keep attention on it. I think, also it's not just Jamal, unfortunately, there
are hundreds if not, perhaps, thousands of people who have been detained and disappeared, and this range is from your peaceful economists like
(INAUDIBLE), who just wanted to -- who just criticize MBS's visions 2030 to women activists who were brought in jail for campaigning to drive, right
after Mohammad bin Salman allowed them to drive.
So, I think it's for us, it's not only using, not only highlighting Jamal's case but using this as a window into this wave of repression that Jamal
wrote so much about. And I think, you know, for us and for the section that we have with The Post, the Global Opinion section, that, you know, I
recruited Jamal to be a part of.
It's to continue using these platforms and giving voices to not only our voices but to journalists and writers around the world who find themselves
silenced, to find themselves journalistically without a home.
I think, those of us who are in the Western media, you know, it is our jobs to give platforms and voices to these people so that we could understand
that part of the world.
So, I think that's something that, you know, we did -- we were doing anyway, and then, even light of Jamal's murder, we have an obligation and a
duty to carry out in his honor and his legacy.
KINKADE: Well, all the best as you continue your work. Karen Attiah, from The Washington Post. Thanks so much for joining us.
ATTIAH: And thank you so much for having me.
KINKADE: We're going to take a quick break. You're watching CNN. Stay with us.
[11:45:22] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is (INAUDIBLE), an artist, and I also work at the NYU Abu Dhabi Art Gallery.
I love Abu Dhabi because the art scene is flourishing and that makes me happy to be living here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The centerpiece of Abu Dhabi's emerging art scene is the Louvre Abu Dhabi. Opened in November 2017, it was 10 years in the
making and cost over $100 million to build.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first thing you notice walking to the Louvre Abu Dhabi is the dome. The way the light filters through the dome, it offers
just the perfect amount of refuge from the harsh sunlight. So, I really think it's great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The floating dome was designed by award-winning architect Jean Nouvel. It's inspired by Arabic geometric patterns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a wonderful introduction to the galleries in the Louvre Abu Dhabi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Louvre Abu Dhabi houses master pieces from around the world. Conveying the universal theme of humanity throughout the
museum. Paintings by Van Gogh, Gauguin and Manet adorn the walls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that the Louvre Abu Dhabi presents all these different historical periods and artifacts and objects adds, of course, to
the cultural landscape, and also add to the knowledge and to education here.
I especially like the painting because of the way the artist works. This was not painted from a live scene. This was the artist combining different
elements and putting them together to create the scene of a young Amir reading a book.
It's interesting to watch people's reactions to spacing. Because it's very popular. Even people who don't know much about the art, recognize this
painting. Studying them in history books and then seeing their paintings here, experiencing the painting firsthand add so much the experience of
arts -- and to art lovers in general.
Having a big name as the Louvre Abu Dhabi, definitely brought so much attention to the region. We have so many artists, curators, holders, and
art lovers, simply visit the UAE because of the Louvre Abu Dhabi.
[11:50:03] KINKADE: Well, the world has been fixated on the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi. Now, a new movie has been released about the life and
death of and now the journalist. Neil report at Marie Colvin who died in Syria.
NEIL CURRY, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: The loss of an eye while covering the war in Sri Lanka, made Marie Colvin an instantly recognizable figure. With an
eye patch which she joked made her resemble a pirate.
Equally distinctive was her fearless journalism. Risking her life to expose the suffering of civilians during some of the world's most
ROSAMUND PIKE, ACTRESS, PORTRAY MARIE COLVIN, A PRIVATE WAR: I hate being in a war zone. I also feel compelled, compelled to see it for myself.
CURRY: The compulsion to tell Colvin's story probe actor Rosamund Pike to fight for the role in Matthew Heineman's film, A Private War.
PIKE: I just felt I will dive into this with you I will go wherever you want me to go, and I'll be -- you know, as fearless and committed, and as
on vain as I can be. And I believe in her, I want to know more. I want to tell her story. Maybe, in a very similar way to the way that she
approached her journalism.
I just thought there is a compulsion in me to do -- to do this for -- I don't know, for the story as both for her memory.
CURRY: As an actor, can you divest yourself of a character, or does Marie inhabit you a little, so?
PIKE: Interesting question. I think -- I think, you know, to a degree, I can and then somebody -- you know, you come in and you say something quite
penetrating, and I -- and I feel it in my body. You know, I feel -- I feel a memory, I feel a connection that is not easy to shake know.
What's your name?
JAMIE DORNAN, ACTOR, PORTRAY PAUL CONROY, A PRIVATE WAR: Paul.
PIKE: I'm Marie.
PIKE: So, you freelance?
DORNAN: For worse.
PIKE: Any good?
DORNAN: The best.
CURRY: Colvin's longtime photographer, Paul Conroy was at her side in Homs and was badly injured in the blast which claimed her life. He works
closely with actor Jamie Dornan to portray their symbiotic working relationship.
DORNAN: I think what Paul and Marie have is very unique. It's a relationship that she hadn't heard of any other photographer and with many
other men. To be honest, Marie said that you're the only man she ever trusted, you know that's a massive thing.
CURRY: When, where, and how do you miss her? What are -- what are the moments?
PAUL CONROY, PHOTOGRAPHER OF MARIE COLVIN: It's like a huge hole -- I mean, life, you know, I mean I've been back in England for kind of six
years now and I -- normally, the phone would be gone, "Paul, we got this." You know, and I'd be waiting for the phone to ring, saying, "Get yourself,
And you know, the phone doesn't ring and we don't get to do what we did so well. And you know, it's just a huge hole, a huge gap.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The reporter was in the room when the child died, Marie Colvin at the Sunday Times of London who joins us now from
PIKE: There are -- there are scenes where the people I talk to those of their stories, and we recreated the famous CNN footage with that Marie's
gave to Anderson Cooper. With our own bereft father and a small child dying, which you know, CNN fearlessly showed to show what was going on in
many other networks might not have wanted to broadcast it.
And when we shot that scene, we had our child, and the man who came in to be the father was someone who had, had a child shot off his shoulders in
Homs. And when he saw this little baby on the bed, this, this, this grief welled up out of him which was -- which was so painful.
CURRY: Another key scene, Marie's fateful decision to return to Homs proved painful for both actors and particularly, her photographer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
PIKE: I got to go back. There are 28,000 people there, we cannot abandon them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me. You're brilliant, I'm brave. And you can amazing notes for the story but you don't have a military plain, all
right? Hey, hey, hey, we will die if we go back, OK.
PIKE: Let me go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will die.
PIKE: You go. (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marie!
CONROY: And Marie just kind of to hold her last event, "Well, I'm the journalist and the other side of it, you can go home everyone." And it was
Now, it was done. You know, it was -- it didn't go any further than that. And you know, I'd never talked that out to they're not in a million years.
MARIE COLVIN, FORMER WAR CORRESPONDENT, THE SUNDAY TIMES: Flash there's a lot of snipe, there's on a high building.
CURRY: A short time later, Colvin spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper from a building which is being used as a makeshift Media Center.
[11:55:02] COOPER: Marie, I mean you have covered a lot of conflicts over a long time, how does this compare?
COLVIN: This is the worst, Anderson. For many reasons, there's nowhere to run. The Syrian army is holding the perimeter. And there just far more
ordnance being poured into the city and no way of predicting where it's going to land.
PIKE: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've open fire on journalist.
CURRY: Just a few hours later, Colvin was killed alongside French photographer Remi Ochlick in a rocket strike. Her family believed she was
deliberately targeted by the Syrian regime.
CURRY: What do you think should have made of an era of fake news?
MATTHEW HEINEMAN, DIRECTOR, A PRIVATE WAR: I think she would be appalled at the state of journalism. I think, she'd be appalled at the way
journalists are being described especially in the country that she's from my country. I think she -- the fact that you know, journalists are, you
know, enemies of the state, or is a-- is a tragedy. You know, journalism is the bedrock of a free and democratic society.
CURRY: Would you like President Trump and other world leaders to see this film, and is there a message for them?
HEINEMAN: Yes, do you know how to get it to him? You know, I hope people from all different walks of life, all different political affiliations see
this film, talk about this film, and that it sticks with them.
COOPER: Marie Colvin I know it's impossible to stay safe, but please try it. Thank you for talking to us.
COLVIN: Thanks very much, Anderson.
KINKADE: I'm Lynda Kinkade. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thanks for watching.