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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

After One Week After her Parents Getting Killed, Jayme Closs still Missing. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired October 22, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00] HILL HARPER, HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED SHOW HOST: -- joining us. I`m Hill Harper. Good night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really hope they find Jayme.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been missing for over a week and still she`s nowhere to be seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is just truthfully a sweet, loving girl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But with every passing day --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every second counts on this case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- we get more disturbing details about Jayme`s last night at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody answered our dispatcher, but we could hear background noise and yelling for help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like how her parents were killed --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s really frightening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- just minutes before she vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe Jayme was in the house when this took place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who was at the door when the Police arrived?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m worried.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, the sheriff behind the search party --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m telling you Jayme is missing and in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- and why he`s asking for thousands of people to help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven`t seen anything like this. In rural western Wisconsin, we just don`t see this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A gruesome murder mystery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Premeditation murder. It cannot be regarded as anything else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And for this one, the whole world is watching.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Khashoggi dead?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It certainly looks that way to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the "Washington Post" journalist nearly cut into pieces with a bone saw just for being critical of his government?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cover stories from the Saudis are a mess. You don`t bring a bone saw to an accidental fistfight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was the body double wearing the dead man`s clothes? Everything except the shoes and then seen dumping them in the

trash to perpetuate the lie that Jamal Khashoggi left the consulate unharmed. And is the man leading the investigation the mastermind of the

murder?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you truly respected the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, you would have never thought of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would their story stand up in an American court? Is the evidence stacked against them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ought to give them a few more days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, we put the Saudis on the stand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there seems to be sort of a credibility gap.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And American judges will render their verdict.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saudis got a lot of explaining to do. And I think everything should be on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashley Banfield and this is Crime and Justice. It is always scary when

kids go missing because kids don`t often up and leave their parents or their homes, especially when they`re shy like Jayme Closs. But Jayme`s

story is even more frightening because when police got to her home they found the door kicked in and both of her parents dead with something

telling investigators that her father had answered that door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see it on TV or read about it.

CHRIS FITZGERALD, SHERIFF, BARRON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: I haven`t seen anything like this in rural western Wisconsin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say it started with a 911 call at 1.00 a.m. at the home of James and Denise Closs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody answered our dispatcher, but we could hear background noise yelling for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When deputies arrived, they found the couple dead with gunshot wounds. Their 13-year-old daughter, Jayme, was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just heard what believed to be a commotion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the first shot followed just a couple of seconds by the second shot, bang and bang.

FITZGERALD: Her parents died from gunshot wounds. Jayme was in home at time of the homicides. Is it a random attack or is it a targeted attack? I

don`t know that answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a crime scene like I`ve seen before but it`s one you rarely see.

BANFIELD: Police have made it clear that Jayme is not a suspect in her parents murders, but the question is who could be? And they`ve been urging

locals to let them know if anyone else has been acting off since all of this began if anyone else might be able to tell us where Jayme is and why

Jayme`s parents are dead.

But as concern about Jayme compounds with every passing day, so, too, does our knowledge about that night and the number of people who are out looking

for her because when Jayme first went missing, the local sheriff asked for 100 volunteers. And today, he is asking for 2,000.

Joining me now, Hailey BeMiller is a reporter with the Wasau Daily Herald. Also, Barron County sheriff, Chris Fitzgerald is with us again live.

Retired FBI special agent, Maureen O`Connell is with us. And criminal prosecutor, Kenya Johnson, joins me as well.

Sheriff, if I can, I`d like to begin with you. Since we last spoke, there were a few hundred tips. And now, we understand there are upwards of, I

believe, over 1,000, perhaps 1,300. Is that still the number?

FITZGERALD: Yeah. We`re into the 1,300 tips that have been in this last week. We`ve closed over 1,100 of those.

[18:05:01] BANFIELD: Have any of those tips panned out? Have you gotten any leads that seem promising in the search for Jayme?

FITZGERALD: Yeah, we have. And that`s why we released the vehicles of interest this afternoon -- late this afternoon. Just a little bit less than

an hour ago, we released two vehicles of interest that were seen in the area of the Closs home at the time of the incident.

BANFIELD: And those vehicles, I got them up on the screen now. It`s a little difficult. There`s not a perfect description, but the way we know of

them, vehicle number one is likely a 2008 to 2014 Dodge Challenger, either red and orange color. And vehicle number two is likely a 2006 to 2010 black

Ford Edge or it could be another car, a 2004 to 2010 black Acura MDX. Why such a discrepancy and what kind of cars this might be?

FITZGERALD: We`ve had our experts go over hours of video and those are the best images that we can come up with so far. They continue to look at that

information as we see -- as it comes across our investigator`s desk and that was the best we could come up with so far. And that`s why we released

that to the public so they could help us because there were definitely two vehicles in the area that were vehicles of interest. They are not suspects.

They are vehicles of interest. We need to know why those vehicles were in the area and who they belong to.

BANFIELD: To either exclude them or include them in this investigation, correct?

FITZGERALD: That is correct.

BANFIELD: And do you have any read on plates at all?

FITZGERALD: No, there is no good shot at this time. Again, we continue to go over video. If there`s anybody else that has video, we continue to

collect that. We believe we have most or all of the video that we need collected and we hope -- unless we`re missing somebody out there, we hope

that if anybody has video or truck video or video from maybe a dash cam of some sort, we want to collect that video.

BANFIELD: And so the information that you just released on these cars that are of interest, these vehicles, did that come from doorbell cams or did

that come from surveillance from businesses, but maybe not particularly right in the area of their home?

FITZGERALD: I don`t know exactly where every piece of evidence came from or video came from, but I can tell you it came from private homes and from

businesses. I do know that. But the exact outcome of each video that we recovered is unknown.

BANFIELD: So when we last spoke, you were asking for 100 people to come out and help, literally walk almost arm and arm, combing this particular

area within a particular vicinity of the home. For anything of evidentiary value, that number has ballooned from 100 to 2,000. You now need the 2,000

volunteers to do what we`re seeing on the screen, literally look at every single possible thing that might be on the ground to see if it might have

something to do with this case. I find it a fascinating request given there are only about 3,000 people in that town. Will you get that many

volunteers?

FITZGERALD: I believe that we will. I think, you know, this is a national story. We have people coming from all over the area. I mean as far as away

as four hours. I know we received phone calls saying we`re on our way up and we`re staying overnight. And I think we will reach that number. I hope

we do.

This is to aid our investigative team with anything that might be uncovered because we are -- we can`t do it like you said and we need more tips and

more information. And so, our investigative team had requested that of me as the lead in this and I said we will put that together and we will take

whatever we get, but we hope we get 2,000. We hope that they spend the day going arm in arm, like you said, across a very targeted area that our

investigators want checked.

BANFIELD: Can you tell me why that area in particular and how far it is from the home? Why it`s targeted?

FITZGERALD: It`s in and around the area of their home. I did release that earlier. So we`ll be in and around the area of the Closs home and the area

-- in the general area of that home so we hope that we`re able to uncover something that may help the case.

BANFIELD: You know, for people who watch programs like Forensic Files, they have seen crimes solved with a cigarette butt that was thrown out of a

car window. Are you informing those volunteers to not leave any tiny bit of discarded debris unchecked? I mean literally, if it`s a cigarette butt, to

pick up every single thing they find.

FITZGERALD: We are putting them out that each team will be led by a law enforcement officer who will be in touch with the evidence collection team

that we have around the site tomorrow.

[18:10:04] So, we`re going to pick up and examine everything that people believe might be. Our investigative team is putting a list together of

items they may recover. I have not seen that list yet. We`ll have a briefing tonight on that and we will release to our helpers or volunteers

tomorrow in hopes to, you know, we uncover something.

BANFIELD: So, sheriff, that was my next question. Did the first round of 100 searchers yield anything of interest? And I would imagine that if

something significant were found that led to some other promising lead, you would know about it. I feel as though since you`re telling me that you

don`t know what`s on the original list of evidentiary materials collected, that there`s nothing so far that`s particularly of significance. Is that

correct?

FITZGERALD: That is correct. The first search can did not yield anything that would help our or is helping our investigation and that`s why they`ve

decided to go reach that circle out a little bit farther and that`s what we`re doing and we hope to do, you know, depending on the number of

volunteers we get to determine the number of area we`re searching or if we`re going to ask again the next day or later in the week for other

volunteers.

We know 2,000 is a lot. That`s why we gave them 24-hour notice so they can make recommendations for daycare and work and all these. We have -- I`ll

will honest, several businesses are sending their employees and maybe some businesses are even closing down and helping with the search. So, again,

this is a community wide effort and that`s what`s been so great about this, our community and the help we`ve received, and that`s why I`m asking for

more help. We need more help.

BANFIELD: Well, sheriff, it sounds like such a confounding story. And just over the weekend, we were reading through the logs of the 911 call and the

response to the Closs home and it`s quite harrowing. And I think the transcripts really sort of tell a narrative of what happened in that home

prior to Jayme being taken. Can you walk me through, now that it`s public knowledge, what those first responding officers saw at the front door and

beyond?

FITZGERALD: Well, in some degree, I can. And again, the logs that we released aren`t always the evidence that`s collected at the scene. They`re

the first initial appearance that an officer goes through. But yeah, our -- the initial appearance with an officer were obviously some kind of

commotion, as you stated, last week in the show. Our officers responded, pulled into the driveway, and saw an open door and then saw what they

believed to be feet. And then responded up there and found the bodies of James Closs and then went in the house and found Denise Closs.

BANFIELD: How far -- how far -- yeah, how far in the house was Denise Closs? If James Closs was found at the door, and as you just mentioned, I

think that`s the first I`ve heard of this, sir, that when you`re officers responded, they could see his feet from the driveway sticking out of the

open door of the home. Is that correct?

FITZGERALD: I don`t know exactly where they -- when they picked him up on site. I don`t know if they pulled in the driveway or when they exactly saw

them, but the door was ajar. And I can`t comment on where Denise was found in the house. But I think going to any scene like that, that`s what we

train our officers to do is their first initial observations and that`s why that`s collected in that call log.

BANFIELD: What I do find interesting is the evidence that your 911 logs has yielded as it comports with what the neighbor said she heard just after

midnight, the night Jayme went missing, and that was two gun shots clear in the night and very loud and only seconds apart, which would suggest that

Denise was perhaps very close to her husband and was shot just seconds after James was shot. Does that sound accurate to you?

FITZGERALD: I can`t comment on that at all. That`s part of the active investigation.

BANFIELD: There`s also log information suggesting multiple rounds were found. Once again, the neighbor heard two. Were there more than two rounds?

FITZGERALD: We`re not releasing that information at this time either as part of an active investigation.

BANFIELD: Can you tell me if the door was opened voluntarily by James or if it was opened by force because the family has said the door was shot.

They may not have understood at an early outset of this story. But it would seem from the neighbor there were only two shots and two victims. So, can

you at least tell us if it looked as though from the scene James had opened the door voluntarily?

[18:14:55] FITZGERALD: No, I cannot again relay that information. That is part of our active investigation and is key to when we make an arrest or

have a suspect of interest that`s part of the interview process. That`s why we do not release that information.

BANFIELD: And then just one last question, sir. And I hope you can clear it up because it sounded odd to us. The FBI, the local bureau, released a

tweet earlier on Wednesday that said, "Law enforcement action was deemed necessary in the town of Barron today after serious criminal activity was

uncovered while searching for Jayme Closs. We do not believe this criminal activity is related to the disappearance of Jayme Closs."

Is this completely unrelated to the crime at hand -- to the crimes at hand, what the murders of Jayme`s parents and the disappearance of Jayme. Is this

something separate -- completely separate because it is deemed serious criminal activity?

FITZGERALD: Yes, that case is being reviewed by our Barron County district attorney and they are completely separate. There is no tie that we can see

to these two cases or arrest that was made during the searching or investigative effort --

BANFIELD: What is the crime?

FITZGERALD: I can`t comment on that. I did check with our district attorney. That hasn`t been charged out, so we`re not able to comment. That

will be charged out shortly by his office he said. And that will be separate charge. Again, no connection with the Closs case.

BANFIELD: Sheriff Fitzgerald, I appreciate you taking the time, especially at this extremely difficult time. It`s never good, a week out, with a

missing child. So, the tip line up, 855-744-3879 . Jayme Closs has been missing a week. She is just 13 years old. Sir, I hope that we have a more

robust conversation the next time. I hope that you`re able to get something out of these 2,000 volunteers. Sheriff Fitzgerald joining us live.

We`ve also found out that a military chopper has been mapping the area in the search for Jayme Closs. So, what kind of clues are they looking for

from up above? That`s next.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talk about the Wisconsin girl who vanished in her home in the middle of the night within minutes of both of her parents being

murdered. Over one week later, there are still more questions than answers. And the answers we do have paint a very dark picture. Gun shots, just

seconds apart, a frantic 911 call with no answer on the other end of the line, a dying father, a man who would answer the door, and now, a missing

13-year-old daughter who has not been seen in week.

My panelists still with me. Hailey BeMiller, you`ve been on the ground as those who have come out to help search have done that deed and yet the

first 100 who were asked to volunteer their work did not yield any sizable clues. And now, there`s a question for 2,000. Can that town of 3,000 yield

that many volunteers?

HALEY BEMILLER, REPORTER, THE WAUSAU DAILY HERALD: I definitely think there`s potential for them to, you know, get as many folks as they needed.

I heard -- when they called for 100 volunteers last week, I heard various accounts that 300 or 400 people showed up. People are very concerned and

very willing to help. And one volunteer I talked to last week doesn`t even live in Barron. She lives about a half hour away. So I do really feel like

this is going to spread communities across the state and people want to help.

BANFIELD: It certainly is a story that has swept the country as well, the concern for Jayme Closs. Let me ask you, Maureen O`Connell, as a special

agent, you know, with the FBI, I don`t even know what you would begin to tell these people to look for. Any soda can piece, any cigarette butt, as I

mentioned to the sheriff, those have solved crimes before, but how do you get lay people to become forensics experts as they`re walking through

country side?

MAUREEN O`CONNELL, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I`ve done this many, many times with the FBI`s ERT team, Ashley, and the main thing to do is

pretty much what the sheriff said or the chief said. You have people, you break them into groups, manageable groups, and you have a law enforcement

officer with them conducting the search. Every time they identify something, they look down and they call over the law enforcement officer

who will either give it the thumbs up or thumbs down, mark it, photograph it in place and move forward.

One of the things they`re looking for right around the perimeter of the home is -- would be to see if the tire impressions match any of those

vehicles. And as I`m sure you know, the FBI has a database of every tire made, every make and model, and what type of cars they typically go on. And

if they haven`t done that already, I`m sure they`re well on their way doing it now.

[18:29:57] And then the other thing the law enforcement officers are going to be looking for is obviously her online presence and perhaps there were

some online predators that were talking to her, acting like there are some young teenage boy, when in fact, they`re vicious predators who targeted

her.

BANFIELD: And you think that they would know that by now because they`ve had access at least to this story now for over a week, but they seem

somewhat flummoxed (ph) by it.

Kenya Johnson, I want you to step in on this. As a prosecutor, it`s so frustrating when you feel as though you know nothing about the story, but

the truth of the matter is very few criminals leave no trace at all. Do they?

KENYA JOHNSON, CRIMINAL PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. Forensic science has become so advanced that anytime you leave a crime you`ve left something

behind, be it in the form of hair or some sort of bodily fluid, even a footprints and physical items that belong to you. So, the technology is

there to analyze almost everything from this crime scene and connect it back and try to reconstruct what really happened. And this reconstruction

along with the interviews and the investigation outside of the home with the people that knew the victims personally, that all together will form

the case against the suspect and would be killer.

BANFIELD: Well, there are two crimes to solve here, who murdered the Closs parents, and then the second one is where is Jayme and can we find her, God

forbid that, before it`s too late. That is for sure. Thank you so much Maureen O`Connell and Kenya Johnson and Haley BeMiller as well. There is

the number to call, 855-744-3879 if you think you have seen little Jayme anywhere, 13 years old.

A man walks into a building and does not come back out where the love of his life was standing there waiting for him. Now, there are reports that

he`s been chopped into pieces, but the chief suspects s in the crime keep telling story after story after story. You think we`re telling you a

typical American criminal? Think again. The whole world is watching, but no one seems to be weighing in. So we have the judges and the prosecutor to

give a little American justice to this story, next.

[18:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: This show is no stranger to stories of death and dismemberment. The kind of shocking

murders that fill the horror movies that you tend to watch at this time of year. Only this show tells real life stories.

And this next one has the whole world watching, because the story is about a Saudi journalist. You`ve seen it all over the news. Once missing, now

presumed murdered. And just might have more gore and more deception and more cover up than any story we have covered on this program about crime

and justice.

An American resident lured into this building. Into a seemingly safe space with his fiancee waiting just outside at the curb under the guise of

getting the documents he needed to get married. That`s where one source told "The New York Times" that he was murdered then cut up into pieces with

a bone saw.

Before another man walked out of that same building wearing all of his clothing. A decoy for all people who might start asking questions. But that

wasn`t the first story that was reported by the chief suspects, who everybody`s looking at in this case.

And it turns out it wasn`t the last story they told either, because adding insult to injury and dismemberment, the Saudi government has shared a

couple of different versions of what might have happened, saying first, this man, Jamal Khashoggi, left the building. Nothing to see here.

Then they changed it saying, no, maybe not, maybe he`s gone missing. Then they changed it again saying, maybe he`s not missing, maybe in fact he`s

dead. Then they changed it again saying actually, he did die inside the building. It was only after a discussion that had gone terribly wrong. This

is how it was actually worded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Primary investigations conducted by the public prosecution regarding Jamal Khashoggi that the discussions

between him and the personnel that met him was he was inside the consulate of Saudi Arabia in Istanbul led to hand to hand fighting with the citizen,

Jamal Khashoggi, which led to his death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did you hear the last part? Hand to hand fighting? Are you kidding me? If that sounds like blaming the victim to you, you, my friend,

are not alone. And if that sounds completely fabricated, you are also not alone.

[18:34:58] And the Saudis may well drop yet another version of events to explain how Jamal Khashoggi -- how he died. But until then, they get

treated like suspects, like any other crime, in what`s shaping up to be a significant murder case. And we are putting the Saudis on the stand.

We are putting them on trial. So that a panel of American judges, who know American justice, can weigh in on all of this garbage and then do what they

do with defendants every day, render a verdict, as to whether they`re lying or not.

Joining me now, CNN chief global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier. Also Judge Belvin Perry. He was a chief judge to the Ninth Judicial Circuit

Court of Florida. You may remember, he presided over one of America`s most famous cases, the Casey Anthony trial. Former Florida 11th Judicial Circuit

Court Judge Alex Ferrer is also with me tonight. He`s also the host of the CBS show "Whistleblower."

Criminal prosecutor Kenya Johnson is with me on this case as well. And "Crime & Justice" producers Justin Freiman and Michael Christian have been

researching the story from the beginning. They are also going to weigh in on this.

And here`s how this is going to work. We will present the evidence to you. The evidence that we know. The stories that we`ve been told, which are

evidence, just like any other crime when there`s a suspect who faces down the police who interrogate him and tells a number of different stories.

That becomes evidence. There are witnesses, people who really saw things. And there are others who heard things. Some of it hearsay. We will weigh it

as such.

I want to begin with you, Kimberly Dozier, because this story all began with an innocent trip to a government office, a consulate in Turkey. Jamal

wanted to get married. So his fiancee stayed in the car and he walked through those doors. Can you just take it from there and tell the audience

how that part of the story from her perspective unfolded?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, from her perspective, this was actually their second trip to the consulate. He had gone once

before and been told come back a day later. What we`ve been told is that in that time, Saudi authorities realized they had an opportunity, that an

order had gone out that all of the dissents, the critics of the Saudi government, were to be taken back to the kingdom.

So from the fiancee`s perspective, she sat outside on this second visit to the consulate, waited and waited and he never showed up.

BANFIELD: She kept his phone, right, Kim?

DOZIER: She kept his phone. There was a story for a bit that he had an Apple watch that might have recorded what happened inside though there had

been some doubts expressed about that by cyber experts. She kept his phone. She went to Turkish authorities, raised the alarm that he never reappeared.

And that`s when the Saudis put out this version of events where they said, hey, he left.

BANFIELD: He left. Nothing to see here. So stopped there for a moment.

DOZIER: OK.

BANFIELD: And so Kimberly, you had given me the evidence from the first witness in this case and that is the fiancee, who was physically there and

saw him walk in to that consulate for him never to reappear.

Justin Freiman, I want you to pick up the story from there because Kim just said it clearly, she sounded the alarm. She called the Turkish authorities.

They`re in there. They`re in Turkey.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Right.

BANFIELD: So the first line of defense would be to call the police. What happened next?

FREIMAN: That`s right. Well, they were fairly fast to come out and say he never did leave that building. They then went on not too long after that.

There was some talk about that they actually had audio and possibly video that he was actually tortured and killed.

BANFIELD: These are the Turks suggesting through leaks to the media.

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: They might actually have bugged -- they`re not saying bugged, but the only way you could have Turkish, you know, possession of video and

audio would be possibly if they had bugged that embassy with video and audio of that consulate.

FREIMAN: Right. Of course, we haven`t heard that. You know, people haven`t heard it. But that`s what was being said earlier on. So right away at least

they were out front saying he never left that building and that he was probably killed.

BANFIELD: So then, what next did the Turks do? As I understand, it went right up the chain to the top and that`s when it became more of an

international incident.

FREIMAN: That`s right. It kept going up to the top. And over the weekend and just even today, we keep getting more information about what happened.

And now we have information about what seems to be a possible cover up of what went on there.

BANFIELD: Before we get to the cover up, there have been so many leaked reports. And one from "The New York Times" was very disturbing. Whether it

was from this bugged or Apple watch or whatever kind of surveillance that has net yet to materialize, "The New York Times" report that a source said

Jamal was dead within minutes of coming into that embassy. That his fingers had been cut off.

[18:40:01] We`re not sure whether it was while he was alive. Being tortured?

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: And that he was dismembered with a bone saw. And within two hours, the killers were gone. Those were all reports that came to "The New

York Times," correct?

FREIMAN: Correct, yes. That`s what was being reported by "The New York Times," yes.

BANFIELD: None of that has surfaced in hard evidence. We do not have any hard drives or tapes in hand.

FREIMAN: We don`t have any of that yet, no.

BANFIELD: So far, it leaks, it`s hearsay.

FREIMAN: Correct.

BANFIELD: So, if you will, then Michael Christian, pick up the story from there because there is quite a tale of many cities if you think about what

the Saudis have said, whether they have been in Saudi, whether they`ve dispatched their foreign minister, whomever has been talking from the

Saudis has said many, many versions.

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Yeah, there have been many versions, Ashleigh. I wrote them all down here so I didn`t forget any of

them. The first official story from the Saudis was he`s not dead. He left the consulate. We have evidence to prove it.

BANFIELD: Not our problem.

CHRISTIAN: Not our problem. He`s not dead. Second version was, well, he`s disappeared. We don`t know where he is, but he`s disappeared. Well, that

didn`t fly. So the third version became well, he may be dead, but they didn`t say that he was dead, may be dead.

BANFIELD: So they`re hedging towards death and then go further on the fourth version. That`s when they start to cough up some info.

CHRISTIAN: That`s right. It just never ends. A fourth version is he`s dead, but we didn`t do it.

BANFIELD: They say some rogue group.

CHRISTIAN: Right. That`s the fifth version.

BANFIELD: Even the president of the United States decided to parrot that comment, some rogue group that`s responsible.

CHRISTIAN: That`s number five.

BANFIELD: What`s number six?

CHRISTIAN: He`s dead but it was a rogue group. And number six, the current one that we know of is he`s dead and we did it, but only because of a

fistfight, and again that would be one person versus 15 people.

BANFIELD: So 15 people came from Saudi Arabia on a fantastic jetliner that landed and left all within a 24-hour period and somehow Jamal Khashoggi got

into a fistfight that led to his death against 15.

CHRISTIAN: One thing that`s consistent through all of these reports is that the royal family, the Saudi royal family, is not involved in any way,

shape or form.

BANFIELD: So far, but the evidence may prove otherwise. We`re not done with the story yet. I think the most critical part of, Michael, your

reporting is that one does not bring a bone saw to a fistfight and somehow, if it was a fistfight that went wrong, why would you have planned in

advance and brought the bone saw?

The judges are going to weigh in next as is the prosecutor. We`re going to weigh some of these evidence and there`s still more ahead. Don`t go

anywhere.

[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Usually, when a suspect lies and then lies again and then lies six times, it seems like you got a case, right? It almost seems like it`s a

lot. But when there is so much other evidence, it might not be as simple as it seems.

And then yet again today, another shoe drops. A big part of the cover up. Justin Freiman, this part of the cover up is astounding. The Turks were on

it. They surveilled this guy who walked into the embassy right before Jamal Khashoggi.

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: And they videotaped that guy walking out and all around ensemble (ph), correct?

FREIMAN: That`s right. Images obtained by CNN show the guy walks out the back door. He seemed to be wearing --

BANFIELD: That`s with the checkered shirt, right?

FREIMAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And he`s the body double.

FREIMAN: Right. He seems to be the body double. He is wearing Khashoggi`s clothing, but not his shoes.

BANFIELD: He`s on the right. The body double is on the right --

FREIMAN: Correct.

BANFIELD: And Jamal is on the left. Literally, he`s wearing his -- he`s wearing Jamal`s actual clothing after Jamal has been murdered --

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: -- except for the shoes.

FREIMAN: About two hours after Jamal had gone inside. That`s when he emerges from that back door. He also goes to a very crowded area, the blue

mosque (ph), where he`s still seen in the other clothing and a fake beard. But then a little while after that, he`s seen again in that area back to

his own clothing with no beard, still with the sneakers.

BANFIELD: He screwed up in that he has got his own sneakers on. Probably didn`t fit Jamal`s shoes. Kenya Johnson, as a prosecutor, I`m sure that you

lick your chops at cases like this. But at the same time, you have to be so careful because we have seen cases like O.J. and Casey, they seemed like a

lot going in. They seemed like they were clear cut and the evidence was all there. And then it wasn`t. How do you see this case?

KENYA JOHNSON, CRIMINAL PROSECUTOR: You have to build this case one piece at a time. It`s already complicated by the fact that we`re not looking at

one person. We`re looking at possibly a hit squad and then the government behind the hit squad. So, who we`re targeting looking at is going to be

very difficult and complicated to begin with.

Secondly, you`re looking at the accessory after the fact. So even after the murder has happened, all these actions that go toward covering up are

inferences to the initial intent on why the murder originally happened.

BANFIELD: Consciousness of guilt, we say in the United States, when you walk in wearing a plaid shirt, you walk out wearing a dead man`s clothes.

And then lo and behold, I think we have a next picture for you, you`re seen dumping a plastic bag when you`ve changed back into your plaid clothes.

That is consciousness of guilt.

That is a cover up. But a cover up doesn`t always mean you`re part of the crime. With all of those hunch men, I could see them pointing to some poor

unfortunate soul (ph) who has to take the fall. Here`s the other thing. Kenya, they don`t have a body. Can you get a conviction without a body?

JOHNSON: In rare cases, it has happened, but sometimes you absolutely need a body because the argument can be made that the person is not dead and

that there is no murder.

[18:50:05] So, while those cases have happened, they have been challenging. But with a lot of evidence to look at, we`re talking about

phone records, communication --

BANFIELD: I`ve seen it.

JOHNSON: -- from the consulate.

BANFIELD: I`ve seen it where there`s been no body and there have been convictions. I want to bring in the judges. Judge Alex, Judge Belvin, I

don`t want you to render a verdict just yet, but I do want you to ask the question you would have if this were in your courtroom. Alex, first to you.

ALEX FERRER, FORMER JUDGE, FLORIDA 11TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT: My question would be why do you need judges? This is a case that could be opened and

shut by a 10-year-old. You have so many different inconsistencies in what the alleged defendant is testifying to to use the example of in a

courtroom.

And one of the things that a jury is instructed on immediately is in evaluating the credibility of a witness, look to see if they have been

inconsistent in what they said before compared to what they said now. Were they open and honest and forthright in answering the questions? Do they

have an interest in the outcome of the matter?

Saudi Arabia`s explanation would fail miserably at every one of these and that`s just dealing with their inconsistent statements, never mind some of

the other matters. But, my question I guess if I have to give him a question, my question would be, why did you have to put a 60-year-old man

in a chokehold when you had 15 people there in a place where he could not possibly be armed?

BANFIELD: Yeah.

FERRER: This was not a SWAT team breaking in his house. He was in a consulate, which means he had no weapon.

BANFIELD: If that`s what happened. We`re still unclear if that`s the evidence. But I want to go back -- Belvin Perry, I got one minute until we

go to break and then we run a verdict, I want you to comment on this because even liars get off.

There`s no better example of that than the woman who graced your courtroom, Casey Anthony. Even liars who tell lie after lie can still be acquitted. Do

you think that`s the case here?

BELVIN PERRY, FORMER CHIEF JUDGE, FLORIDA NINTH JUDICIAL COURT DISTRICT: Absolutely not. In this particular case, you have lie upon lie that is

contradicted by all of the physical evidence in this particular case.

This is a case of the keystone cops trying to fabricate and cover up a murder at each turn in their cover up. They are busted and shown to be

liars. The truth in this story just doesn`t follow logic. It does not make any sense.

BANFIELD: OK.

PERRY: So they`re going to have a difficult time doing anything with this case.

BANFIELD: I think I know where you`re at, but I want you to take the next minute or so and ruminate over everything including the hearsay and then I

want you to give a dose of United States` jurisprudence to this case and to the Saudis. Your verdicts are next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: With the case and the evidence as we know it filled with hearsay, it is time for your verdict, Judge Alex Ferrer of the 11th

Judicial Circuit Court of Florida and Judge Belvin Perry of the 9th Judicial Circuit Court of Florida. You heard the story and you know what we

have. You know what`s been entered as evidence on this program. Judge Alex, you first, your verdict?

FERRER: Well, let`s just say that I don`t know that Saudi Arabia would ever face any repercussions because I think they are kind of the Harvey

Weinstein of countries. Everybody knows what they are up to, but everybody is afraid to call them out for fear of repercussions.

That being said, with all of the lies, the fake stories, the evidence that they brought a 15-member team to come take him down, this 60-year-old

unarmed man, this implausible story that he died in a chokehold under those circumstances, the use of a body double that they just happened to have

wearing his clothes, and the existence of a bone saw, no question, my verdict is guilty.

BANFIELD: OK, so, Judge Belvin Perry, again, there is no jury here, but oftentimes bench trial mean it`s up to you as the judge to rule from the

bench. How do you rule?

PERRY: I rule guilty based upon the fact that the video evidence that totally refute all of the copping bull (ph) stories that we`re told. The

evidence of the body double, the evidence of them disposing of his clothing, the blunder where the guy, the body double did not change shoes,

evidence of the cleanup crew later on coming there to wipe away evidence of the murder scene, and the bone saw, it is beyond a reasonable doubt that he

was murdered.

BANFIELD: And that is our standard in the United States. Kimberly Dozier, last 10 seconds to you, because we still don`t have that bird in the hand.

We still don`t have that video or that audio, do we?

DOZIER: The Turks haven`t shared the proof that they say they have that they brought in a bone saw, that they committed a murder. Until we see the

audio or the video, the Saudis can stick with the story that this was some amateurs trying to follow orders, but making a big mistake.

BANFIELD: Kimberly Dozier, my thanks to you. My thanks also to Justin Freiman and Michael Christian, our "Crime & Justice" producers who have

researched the story for us. Judge Alex Ferrer and Judge Belvin Perry, my thanks to you too, and to Kenya Johnson, our criminal prosecutor on this

case.

[18:59:58] So there you go, a little American justice for you on a global story that matters. It matters to you. And it matters to our president. And

how he decides to render verdicts. Next hour of "Crime & Justice" starts right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CRIME AND JUSTICE HOST: American justice for you on a global story that matters. It matters to you. And it matters to our

president and how he decides to render verdicts. Next hour of Crime and Justice starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really hope they find Jayme.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: She`s been missing for over a week, and, still, she`s nowhere to be seen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s just truthfully a sweet and loving girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: But with every passing day --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every second counts in this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We get more disturbing details about Jayme`s last night at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody answered our dispatcher, but we could hear background noise and yelling for help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Like how her parents were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s really frightening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Just minutes before she vanished.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she was in the house when this took place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And who was at the door when police arrived?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m worried

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight, the sheriff behind the search party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m telling you, Jayme is missing and endangered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And why he`s asking for thousands of people to help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven`t seen anything like this in rural Western Wisconsin. We just don`t see this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A gruesome murder mystery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: premeditated murder. It cannot regarded as anything else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And for this one, the whole world is watching.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jamal Khashoggi is dead?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It certainly looks that way to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Was the Washington Post Journalist really cut in pieces with a bone saw just for being critical of his government?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cover stories from the Saudis are a mess. You don`t bring a bone saw to an accidental fistfight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Who was the body double wearing the dead man`s clothes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything except the shoes,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And then seen dumping them in the trash. To perpetuate lie that Jamal Khashoggi left the consulate unharmed. And is the man leading

the investigation the master mind of the murder?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIEDMALE: If he truly respected the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, he would have never thought of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Would their story stand up in an American court? Is the evidence stacked against them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ought to give them a few more days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight, we put the Saudis on the stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there really seems to be a sort of credibility gap there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And American judges will render their verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saudis has got a lot of explaining to do and everything should be on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashley Banfield, and this is Crime and Justice. It`s always scary when kids go missing because kids don`t

often up and leave their parents or their home, especially when they are shy, like Jayme Closs Jayme`s story is even more frightening because when

police got to her home they found the door kicked in, and both parents dead, with something telling investigators that her father had answered

that door.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see it on TV. You read about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not seen anything like this in rural Western Wisconsin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say it started with a 911 call at 1:00 a.m. at the home of James and Denise Closs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody answered the dispatcher, but there was background noise, yelling for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When deputies arrived, the couple was dead with gunshot wounds, their 13-year-old daughter Jayme gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard what we believed to be a commotion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the first shot from just a couple seconds by the second shot, and bang, and bang.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her parents died from gunshot wounds. Jayme was in the home at the time of the homicides. Is it a random attack or targeted

attack? I don`t know that answer. It`s a crime scene like I`ve seen before, but one you rarely see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The police have made it clear that Jayme is not a suspect in her parent`s murders but the question is, who could be? And they`ve been

urging the locals to let them know if anyone else has been acting off since all of this began. If anyone else might be able to tell us where Jayme is

and why Jayme`s parents are dead. But as concerned about Jayme compounds with every passing day, so, too, does our knowledge about the night and a

number of people who are out looking for her because when Jayme first went missing, the local sheriff asked for 100 volunteers, and today, he`s asking

for 2,000.

Joining me now, Haley B. Miller is a reporter with the WASAU Daily Herald. Also Baron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald is with us live, retired FBI

Special Agent Maurine O`Connell is with us and Criminal Prosecutor Kenya Johnson joins me as well. Sheriff if I can I`d like to begin with you.

Since we last spoke, there were a few hundred tips, and now we understand there are upwards of, i believe, over a thousand or 1300. is that still the

number?

CHRIS FITZGERALD, SHERIFF, WISCONSIN: Yes, we`re in the 1300 tips into this last week. We`ve closed over 1100 of those.

BANFIELD: Have any of those tips panned out? Have you gotten any leads that seem promising in the search for Jayme?

FITZGERALD: Yes. We have, and that`s why we released the vehicles of interest this afternoon, late this afternoon just a little bit less than an

hour ago. We released two vehicles of interest seen in the area of the Closs home at the time of the incident.

BANFIELD: And those vehicles, I`ve got them up on the screen right now. It`s a little difficult. There`s not a perfect description. But the way

we know of them vehicle bum is likely 2008 to 2014 dodge Challenger, either red and orange in color, and vehicle number two is likely a 2006 to 2010

black Ford Edge, or it also could be another car, a 2004 to 2010 black Accura MDX. Why such a discrepancy on what kind of cars these might?.

FITZGERALD: We`ve had experts pour over hours of video, and those are the best images that we can come up so far. They continue to look at the

information as we see, as it comes across our investigator`s desk, and that was the best that we could come up with so far, and that`s why we released

that to the public so they could help us because There was definitely two vehicles in the area that are vehicles of interest. They are not suspects.

They are vehicles of interest, and we have to know why those vehicles were in the area, and who they belong to.

BANFIELD: To either exclude them or include them in the investigation, correct?

FITZGERALD: That is correct.

BANFIELD: And do you have any read on plates at all?

FITZGERALD: No, there is no good shot. At this time, again, we continue to pour over video, if there`s anybody else that has video, you know, we

continue to collect that. We believe we have most or all the video we need collected, and we hope, unless we`re missing somebody out there, we hope

that if anybody has video or, you know, truck video or video from maybe a dash cam of some sort, we want to collect that video.

BANFIELD: And so this -- the information that you just released on these cars that of interest, these vehicles, did that come from doorbell cams or

did that come from surveillance from businesses, but not particularly right in the area of their home?

FITZGERALD: I don`t know exactly where every piece of evidence came from or video came from. But I can tell you it came from private homes and from

businesses. I do know that but the exact outcome of a video that we recovered is unknown.

BANFIELD: So when we last spoke, you were asking for 100 people to come out and help literally walk almost arm in arm combing this particular area

within a particular vicinity of the home for anything of evidentiary value. That number has ballooned from 100 to 2,000. You now need 2,000 volunteers

to do what we`re seeing on this screen, literally looking at every single possible thing on the ground to see if it might have something to do with

this case. I find it a fascinating request begin there are only 3,000 people in the town. Will you get that many volunteers?

FITZGERALD: Yes. I believe that we will. I think, you know, this is a national story. We have people coming from all over the area, as far as

away as four hours. I know we received phone calls saying we`re on the way up and were staying overnight. And I think we will reach that number. I

hope we do. This is to aide our investigative team with anything that might be uncovered because we are a week into it. And like you said and we

need more tips and more information. And so our investigative team had requested that of me and the lead in this, and I said we will put that

together, and we`ll take whatever we get, but we hope we get 2,000. We hope they spend the day going arm in arm like you said, across a very

targeted area, that our investigators want checked.

BANFIELD: Can you tell me why that area in particular and how far it is from the home? Why it`s targeted?

FITZGERALD: It`s in and around that -- in and around the area of the home. I did release that earlier, so we`ll be in and around the area of the

home and the area in the general area of the home so we hope that we`re able to uncover something that may help the case.

BANFIELD: You know, from people who watch programs like Forensic Files they have seen crimes solved with a cigarette butt thrown from the window.

Are you informing those volunteers to not leave any tiny bit of discarded debris unchecked? I mean, literally if it`s a cigarette butt, just picking

up everything they find?

FITZGERALD: We are putting out -- each team is led by a law enforcement officer who will be in touch with the evidence collection team that we have

around the site tomorrow, so we`re going to pick up and examine everything that people believe might be. Our investigative team has a list together of

items they may recover. I have not seen the list yet. We`ll have a briefing tonight on that and we will release that to our helpers or our

volunteers tomorrow in hopes to, you know, uncover something.

BANFIELD: So Sheriff that was my next question. Did the first round of 100 searchers yield anything of interest? And I would imagine if something

significant were found that led to some other promising lead, you would know about it? I feel as though you`re telling me you don`t know what`s on

the original list of evidence materials collected, that there`s nothing so far that particularly is of significance, is that correct?

FITZGERALD: That is correct. The first search did not yield anything that would help our or is helping investigation, and that`s why they have

decided to go reach that circle out further and that`s what were doing and we hope to do, you know, depending on the number of volunteers we get,

that`s area searching or ask again the next day or later in the week for other volunteers. We know 2,000 is a lot. That`s why they have 24 hour

notice to make recommendations for day care and work and all of this.

And have I`ll be honest several business are sending their employees and it maybe some business are even closing down and helping with the search. So

again this is community wide effort and that`s what`s been so great about this, our community and the help that we receive. And that`s why I`m

asking for ore help, We need more help.

BANFIELD: Well Sheriff it sounds like just a confounding story, and just over the weekend we were reading through the logs of the 911 call, and the

response to the Closs home, and it`s quite harrowing, And I think that transcripts really tell a narrative of what happened in the home prior to

Jayme being taken. Can you walk me through, now that it`s public knowledge, what the first responding officers saw at the front door and

beyond?

FITZGERALD: Well, in some degree, I can, and, again, logs released are not always the evidence that`s collected at the scene. they are the first

initial appearance that an officer goes through, but the initial appearance of an officer were, obviously, some kind of commotion, as you stated last

week in the show. Out officers responded. Pulled into the driveway, and saw an open door and saw what they believed to be feet, and then responded

up there, and found the bodies of James Closs and then went in the house and found Denise Closs --

BANFIELD: How far -- yes, how far in the house was Denise Closs if James Closs was found at the door. You mentioned it, and that`s the first I`ve

heard of this sir that when your officers responded, they could see his feet from the driveway sticking out of the open door of the home, is that

correct

FITZGERALD: I don`t know exactly where when they picked him up on sight, you know, I don`t know if they pulled into the driveway or when they

exactly saw them, but the door was ajar, and I can`t comment where Denise was found in the house, but I think going to any scene like that, that`s

what we train officers to do first initial observations, and that`s why that`s collected in the call log.

BANFIELD: What I do find interesting is the evidence that your 911 logs have yielded. as it comports with what the neighbor said she heard just

after midnight, the night jayme went missing, and that was two gunshots clear in the night and very loud, and only seconds apart, which would

suggest that Denise was, perhaps, very close to her husband and was shot just seconds after James was shot, does that sound accurate to you?

FITZGERALD: I can`t comment on that at all. That`s part of the active investigation.

BANFIELD: There`s also log information suggesting multiple rounds were found. Once again, the neighbor heard two rounds. Were there more than two

rounds?

FITZGERALD: We`re not releasing that information at this time either as part of the active investigation.

BANFIELD: Can you tell me if the door was opened voluntarily by James, or if it was opened by force, because the family has said the door was shot.

They may not have understood at the early outset of the story, but it seems from the neighbor there`s only two shots and two victims, so can you at

least tell us if it looked as though from the scene James opened the door voluntarily?

FITZGERALD: No, I cannot, again, relay that information. That`s part of the active investigation, and it is key to when we make an arrest or have a

suspect of interest. That`s part of the interview process. That`s why we did not release that information.

BANFIELD: And then just one last question, sir

FITZGERALD: You bet.

BANFIELD: And I hope you can clear it up because it sounded odd to us. the FBI, the local bureau, released a tweet earlier on Wednesday that said,

law enforcement action was deemed necessary in the town of Barron today after serious criminal activity was uncovered while searching for Jayme

Closs. We do not believe this is related to the disappearance of Jayme Closs. Is this completely unrelated to the crimes at hand, the murders of

the parents and disappearance, is this something completely separate? it is deemed serious criminal activity.

FITZGERALD: Yes. And that case is being reviewed by the District Attorney. And they are completely separate. There`s no tie that we can

see to these two cases in the arrest made in the searching or investigative effort.

BANFIELD: What is the crime?

FITZGERALD: I can`t comment on that. I checked with the district attorney. That`s not been charged out so we cannot comment. That`s charged out

shortly by his office, he said, and that`s a separate charge, again, no connection with the Closs Case.

BANFIELD: Sheriff Fitzgerald I appreciate you taking the time, especially at this extremely difficult time. It`s never good, a week out, with a

missing child, so tip line is up, Jayme Closs is missing, just 13 years old. I hope you get something from the 2,000 volunteers. Chris Fitzgerald

joining us live. We`ve also found that a military chopper has mapping the area in the search, so what kind of clues are they looking for from up

above? That`s Next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We`re still talk about the Wisconsin girl who vanished in her home within minutes of her parents being murdered. Over one week later,

there`re more questions than answers, and the answers we do have paint a very dark picture. Gun shots, just seconds apart, a frantic 911 call with

no answer on the other end of the line. A dying father, a man who would answer the door and now, a missing 13-year-old daughter who has not been

seen in week.

My panelists still with me. Hailey B. Miller you`ve been on the ground as those who have come out to help search and yet the first 100, their work

did not yield any sizable clues, and now there`s a request for 2,000. Can that town of 3,000 yield that many volunteers?

HAILEY B. MILLER, REPORTER. WASAU: I definitely think there`s potential for them to you know, get as many folks as they need. I heard when they

called for 100 volunteers last week, I heard various accounts that 300 or 400 people showed up. People are very concerned and very willing to help,

and one Volunteer I talked to last week doesn`t even live in Baron. She lives about a half hour away, so I really feel like that has hit

communities across the state, and people want to help.

BANFIELD: It certainly is a story that swept the country as well, the concern for Jayme Closs. Let me ask you, Maureen O`Connell, as a special

agent you know with the FBI, I don`t even know what you would begin to tell these people to look for. Any soda can piece, any cigarette butt as i

mentioned to the sheriff. Those have solved crimes before, but how do you get lay people to become forensics experts as they`re walking through

country side?

MAUREEN O`CONNELL, RETIRED FBI AGENTL: I`ve done this many, many times with the FBI`s ERT team, Ashleigh and the main thing to do is pretty much what

the sheriff said or the chief said. You have people, you break them into groups, manageable groups, and you have a law enforcement officer with them

conducting the search. Every time they identify something, they look down and they call over the law enforcement officer who will give it the thumbs

up, thumbs down, mark it, photograph it place, and move forward.

One of the things they`re looking for around the perimeter of the home would be to see if the tire impressions match any of those vehicles and as

I`m sure you know, the FBI has a database of every tire made, every make and model and what type of cars they typically go on and if they haven`t

done that already, I`m sure they`re well on their way doing it now. And then the other thing the law enforcement officers are going to be looking

for is her online presence and perhaps there were some online predators talking to her act a like they`re a young teenage boy, when in fact,

they`re vicious predators who targeted her.

BANFIELD: You think they`d know that by now because they`ve had access to this story now for over a week, but they seem somewhat flummoxed by it.

Kenya Johnson I want you to steep in on this. As a prosecutor, it is, it`s so frustrating when you feel as though you know nothing about the story,

but the truth of the matter is very few criminals leave no trace at all. do they?

KENYA JOHNSON, PROSECUTOR: absolutely. Forensic science has become so advanced that you leave a crime, you`ve left something behind. Be it in the

form of hair or some sort of bodily fluid even a footprints and physical items that belong to you. So the technology is there to analyze almost

everything from this crime scene and connect it back and try to reconstruct what really happened. this reconstruction along with the interviews and the

investigation outside of the home with the people that knew the victims personally, that all together will form the case against the suspect and

would be killer.

BANFIELD: Well here are two crimes to solve here, who murdered the Closs parents and then the second one is where is Jayme and can we find her, God

forbid, before it`s too late. That is for sure. Thank you so much Maureen O`Connell and Kenya Johnson and Hailey B. Miller as well. There`s the

number to call. 855-744-3879 if you think you have seen little Jayme anywhere, 13 years old.

A man walks into a building and does not come back out where the love of his life was standing there waiting for him. Now there are r reports that

he`s been chopped into pieces. But the chief suspects in the crime keep telling story after story after story. You know were telling you had a

typical American criminal? Think again. Whole world is watching. But no one seems to be weighing in. so we have the judges and the prosecutor to give a

little American justice to this story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:32:12] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: This show is no stranger to stories of death and dismemberment. The kinds that shocking murders that

fill the horror movies that you tend to watch at this time of year. Only - - this show tells real life stories. And this next one has the whole world watching because the story is about a Saudi journalist. You`ve seen it all

over the news. Once missing, now presumed murdered.

And just might have more gore and more deception and more cover-up than any story we have covered on this program about crime and justice. An American

resident lured into this building. Into a seemingly safe space with his fiancee waiting just outside at the curb under the guise of getting the

documents he needed to get married. That`s where one source told the New York Times that he was murdered and then cut up into pieces with a bone

saw.

Before another man walked out of the same building wearing all of his clothing. A decoy for all the people who might start asking questions but

that wasn`t the first story that was reported by the chief suspects. Who everybody`s looking at in this case and it turns out it wasn`t the last

story they told either because adding insult to injury and dismemberment, the Saudi government has shared a couple of different versions of what

might have happened.

Saying first, this man, Jamal Khashoggi, left the building. Nothing to see here. Then they changed it, saying no, maybe not. Maybe he`s gone

missing. Then they changed it again saying, maybe he`s not missing. Maybe in fact he`s dead. Then they changed it again saying actually, he did die

inside the building. It was only after a discussion that had gone terribly wrong. This is how it was actually worded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (through translator): Primary investigations conducted by the Public Prosecution regarding Jamal Khashoggi did not that the

discussions between him and the personnel that met him was he was inside the consulate of Saudi Arabia in Istanbul led to hand to hand fighting with

the citizen, Jamal Khashoggi which led to his death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did you hear that last part? Hand to hand fighting? Are you kidding me? It does sounds like blaming the victim to you, you my friend,

are not alone, and if that sounds completely fabricated, you are also not alone. And the Saudis may well drop yet another version of events. To

explain how Jamal Khashoggi how he died.

[19:35:00] But until then, they get treated like suspects. Like any other crime. In what`s shaping up to be a significant murder case. And we are

putting the Saudis on the stand. We are putting them on trial. So that a panel of American judges who know American justice, can weigh in on all of

this garbage and then do what they do with defendants every day. Render a verdict as to whether they`re lying or not.

Joining me now, CNN Chief Global Affairs Analyst, Kimberly Dozier. Also, Judge Belvin Perry. He was the chief judge in the 9th Judicial Circuit

Court of Florida. You may remember he presided over one of America`s most famous cases. The Casey Anthony trial. Former Florida 11th Judicial

Circuit Court Judge, Alex Ferrer is also with me tonight. He`s also the host of the CBS show, "WHISTLEBLOWER".

Criminal prosecutor Kenya Johnson is with me on this case as well and CRIME AND JUSTICE producers Justin Freiman and Michael Christian have been

researching the story from the beginning. They are also going to weigh in on this. And here`s how this is going to work. We will present the

evidence to you. The evidence that we know. The stories that we`ve been told. Which are evidence, just like any other crime when there`s a suspect

who faces down the police who interrogate him and tells a number of different stories.

That becomes evidence. There are witnesses, people who really saw things. And there are others who heard things. Some of it hearsay. We will weight

it as such. I want to begin with you, Kimberly Dozier because this story all began with an innocent trip to a government office. A consulate in

Turkey. Jamal wanted to get married. So his fiancee stayed in the car and he walked through those doors.

Can you just take it from there and tell the audience how that part of the story from her perspective unfolded?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, from her perspective, this was actually their second trip to the Consulate. He`d

gone once before and been told come back a day later. What we`ve been told is that in that time, Saudi authorities realized they had an opportunity,

that an order had gone out that all of the dissents, the critics of the Saudi government were to be taken back to the kingdom.

So from the fiancee`s perspective, she sat outside on this second visit to the consulate, waited and waited and he never showed up.

BANFIELD: But she kept his phone, right, Kim? She kept his phone.

DOZIER: She kept his phone. There was a story for a bit that he had an Apple watch that might have reported what happened inside. Though there

had been some doubts expressed about that by cyber experts. She kept his phone. She went to Turkish authorities, raised the alarm that he never

reappeared and that`s when the Saudis put out this version of events where they said, hey, he left.

BANFIELD: He left, he left. Nothing to see here. So stop there for a moment. And so, Kimberly, you had given me the evidence from the first

witness in this case and that is the fiancee who was physically there and saw him walk into that consulate for him never to reappear. Justin

Freiman, I want you to pick up the story from there because Kim just said it clearly, she sounded the alarm, she called the Turkish authorities.

They`re in there.

They`re in turkey. So the first he would -- you know, the first line of defense, we need to call the police. What happened next?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right. Well, they were fairly fast to come out and say he never did leave that building.

They then went on not too long after that, there was some talk about that they actually had audio and possibly video that he was actually tortured

and killed.

BANFIELD: These are the Turks suggesting through leaks to the media.

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: They might actually have bugged -- well, they`re not saying bugged, but the only way you could have Turkish, you know, possession of

video and audio would be possibly if they had bugged that embassy with video and audio.

FREIMAN: Right. Now, of course, we haven`t heard that, you know, people haven`t heard but that`s what was being said earlier on. So, right away at

least, they were out front saying he never left the building and then he was probably killed.

BANFIELD: So then, what next did the Turks do? Because as I understand, it went right up the chain to the top and that`s when it became more of an

international incident.

FREIMAN: That`s right. It kept going to the top. And over the weekend and justice even today we keep getting more information about what happened

and now we have information about what seems to be a possible cover-up of what went on there.

BANFIELD: Before we get to the cover-up, the -- there have been so many leaked reports and one from the New York Times was very disturbing. And

whether it was from this bugged or Apple watch or whatever kind of surveillance that has net yet to materialize, the New York Times reported

that a source said Jamal was dead within minutes of coming into the embassy. That his fingers had been cut off.

We`re not sure whether it was while he was alive being tortured.

FREIMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: And that he was dismembered with a bone saw.

[19:40:03] And within two hours, the killers were gone. Those were all reports that came to The New York Times, correct?

FREIMAN: Correct, yes. That`s what was being reported by the New York Times. Yes.

BANFIELD: None of that has surfaced in hard evidence. We do not have any hard drives or tapes in hand.

FREIMAN: We don`t have any of that yet. No.

BANFIELD: So far, it`s leaks and hearsay.

FREIMAN: Correct.

BANFIELD: So if you will then Michael Christian, pick up the story from there because there is quite a tale of many cities if you think about what

the Saudis have said, whether they have been in Saudi, whether they`ve dispatched their foreign minister, whomever has been talking from the

Saudis has said many, many versions.

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Yes. There have been many versions actually and I wrote them all down here so I didn`t forget

any of them. The first official story from the Suadis was he`s not dead. He left the consulate. We have evidence to prove it.

BANFIELD: Not our problem.

CHRISTIAN: Not our problem, he`s not dead. Second version was, well, he`s disappeared. We don`t know where he is, but he`s disappeared. Well, that

didn`t fly. So the third version became well, he may be dead. But they didn`t say that he was. Maybe.

BANFIELD: So they`re hedging towards death and then they go further on the fourth version, that`s when they start to cough up some info.

CHRISTIAN: That`s right. It just never ends. Fourth version is he`s dead but we didn`t do it.

BANFIELD: And they say it`s a rogue group.

CHRISTIAN: Right. That`s the fifth version.

BANFIELD: Even the President of the United States decided to parrot that comment. Some rogue group that`s responsible.

CHRISTIAN: Yes. That`s number five.

BANFIELD: What`s number six?

CHRISTIAN: He`s dead but it was a rogue group. And number six, the current one that we know of is he`s dead and we did it but only because of

a fistfight and again that would be one person versus 15 people.

BANFIELD: So 15 people came from Saudi Arabia on a fantastic jetliner that landed and left all within a 24-hour period and somehow Jamal Khashoggi

(INAUDIBLE) got into a fistfight that led to his death against 15.

CHRISTIAN: One thing that`s consistent through all of this reports is that the royal family, the Saudi Royal Family is not involved in any way shape

or form.

BANFIELD: So far, but the evidence may prove otherwise. We`re not done with the story yet. I think the most critical part of -- Michael, your

reporting is that one does not bring a bone saw to a fistfight and somehow if it was a fistfight that went wrong, why would you have planned in

advance and brought the bone saw? The judges are going to weigh in next as is the prosecutor are going to weigh some of this evidence and there`s

still more ahead. Don`t go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:00] BANFIELD: Usually, when a suspect lies and then lies again and then lies six times, it seems like you got a case, right? It almost seems

like at the luck. But when there is so much other evidence, it might not be as simple as it seems. And then yet again today, another shoe drops. A

big part of the cover up. Justin Freiman, this part of the cover-up is astounding. The Turks were on it.

They surveilled this guy who walked into the embassy right before Jamal Khashoggi and they videotaped that guy walking out and all around assemble.

Correct?

FREIMAN: That`s right. Images obtained by CNN show the guy walks out the back door. He seems to be wearing --

BANFIELD: That`s him in the checkered shirt, right?

FREIMAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And he`s the body double.

FREIMAN: Right. He`s seems to be body double. He`s wearing Khashoggi`s clothing but not his shoes.

BANFIELD: So he`s on the right, the body double is on the right.

FREIMAN: Correct.

BANFIELD: And Jamal is on the left. They`re wearing -- literally, he`s wearing his -- he`s wearing Jamal`s actual clothing after Jamal has been

murdered except for the shoes.

FREIMAN: Right. About two hours after Jamal had gone inside, that`s when he emerges from that back door. He also goes to a very crowded area, the

blue mosque where he`s still seen in the other clothing and a fake beard but then a little while after that, he`s seen again in that area back to

his own clothing with no beard, still with the sneakers, correct.

BANFIELD: He screwed up in that he`s got his own sneakers on. Probably didn`t fit Jamal`s shoes. Kenya Johnson, as a prosecutor, I`m sure that

you lick your chops at cases like this, but at the same time, you have to be so careful because we have seen cases like O.J. and Casey, they seemed

like a lock going in. They seemed like they were clear cut and the evidence was all there and then it wasn`t. How do you see this case?

KENYA JOHNSON, CRIMINAL PROSECUTOR: You have to build this case one piece at a time. It`s already complicated by the fact that we`re not looking at

one person, we`re looking at possibly a hit squad and then the government behind the hit squad. So who we`re targeting and looking at is going to be

very difficult and complicated to begin with. Secondly, you`re looking at the accessory after the fact.

So even after the murder has happened, all these actions that go toward covering it up are inferences to the initial intent on why the murder

originally happened.

BANFIELD: Consciousness of guilt we say in the United States, when you walk in wearing a plaid shirt and you walk out wearing a dead man`s

clothes, and then lo and behold, I think we have the next picture for you, you`re seen dumping a plastic bag when you`ve changed back into your plaid

clothes, that is consciousness of guilt. That is a cover-up. But a cover- up doesn`t always mean you`re part of the crime, with all those henchmen.

I could see them pointing to some poor unfortunate soul who has to take the fall. Here`s the other thing. Kenya, they don`t have a body. Can you get

a conviction without a body?

JOHNSON: In rare cases, it has happened, but sometimes you absolutely need a body because the argument can be made that the person is not dead, and

that there is no murder. So while those cases have happened, they have been challenging, but there`s lots of evidence to look at.

[19:50:02] We`re talking about phone records, communication from the consulate.

BANFIELD: I`ve seen -- I`ve seen it where there`s been no body and there have been convictions. I want to bring in the judges. Judge Alex, Judge

Belvin, I don`t want you to render a verdict just yet but I do want you to ask the question you would have if this were in your courtroom. Alex,

first to you.

ALEX FERRER, AMERICAN TELEVISION PERSONALITY: My question would be, why do you need judges? This is a case that probably could be open and shut by a

10-year-old. You have so many different inconsistencies in what the alleged defendant is testifying to to use the example of in a courtroom and

one of the things that a jury is instructed on immediately is evaluating the credibility of witness.

Look to see if they`ve inconsistent and what they said before compared to what they said now. Were they open and honest and forthright in answering

the questions. Do they have an interest in the outcome of the matter. Saudi Arabia`s explanation would fail miserably at every one of these, and

that`s just dealing with their inconsistent statements. Never mind some of the other matters.

But my question I guess if I had to give him a question, my question would be why did you have to put a 60-year-old man in a chokehold when you had 15

people there in a place where he could not possibly be armed. This was not a SWAT team breaking into his house. He was in a consulate, which means he

had no weapon.

BANFIELD: If that`s what happened, we`re still unclear if that`s the evidence. But I want to go back -- Belvin Perry, I`ve got one minute until

we go to break and then we render verdicts and I want you to comment on this because even liars get off. And there`s no better example of that

than the woman who graced your courtroom, Casey Anthony, even liars who tell lie after lie can be still be acquitted. Do you think that`s the case

here?

BELVIN PERRY, PERSONAL-INJURY ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. In this particular case, you have lie upon lie that is contradicted by all of the

physical evidence in this particular case. This is the case of the keystone cops trying to fabricate and cover up a murder at each turn in

their cover-up they are busted and shown to be liars. The truth in their story just doesn`t follow logic. It does not make any sense.

BANFIELD: OK.

PERRY: So they`re going to have a difficult time doing anything with this case.

BANFIELD: I think I know where you`re at. But I want you to take the next minute or so and ruminate over everything including the hearsay and then I

want you to give a dose of United States jurisprudence to this case and to the Saudis. Your verdicts are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:29] With the case and the evidence as we know it filled with hearsay, it is time for your verdict. Judge Alex Ferrer of the 11th

Judicial Circuit Court of Florida and Judge Belvin Perry of the Ninth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida. You`ve heard the story and you know

what we have. You know what`s been entered in evidence on this program. Judge Alex, you first, your verdict?

FERRER: Well, let`s just say that I don`t know that Saudi Arabia would ever face any repercussions because I think they are kind of the Harvey

Weinstein of countries. Everybody knows what they`re up to but everybody is afraid to call them out for fear of repercussions. That being said,

with all of the lies, the fake stories, the evidence that they brought a 15-member team to come take him down.

This 60-year-old unarmed man, this implausible story that he died in a chokehold under those circumstances, the use of a body double where they

just happen to have wearing his clothes and the existence of a bone saw, no question my verdict is guilty.

BANFIELD: OK. So Judge Belvin Perry again. There is no jury here but oftentimes, bench trials mean it`s up to you as the judge to rule from the

bench. How do you rule?

PERRY: I rule guilty based upon the fact of the video evidence that totally refute all of the (INAUDIBLE) stories that we`re told. The

evidence of the body double, the evidence of them disposing of his clothing, the blunder where the guy, the body double did not change shoes.

The evidence of the cleanup crew later on coming there to wipe away evidence of the murder scene and the bone saw, it is beyond a reasonable

doubt that he was murdered.

BANFIELD: And that is our standard in the United States. Kimberly Dozier, last 10 seconds to you because we still don`t have that burden in hand. We

still don`t have that video or that audio, do we?

DOZIER: The Turks haven`t shared the proof that they say they have that -- they brought in a bone saw that they committed a murder until they see the

audio and video. The Saudi`s can stick with the story that this was some armatures trying to follow orders but making a big mistake.

BANFIELD: Kimberly Dozier, my y thanks to you, my thanks also to Justin Freiman and Michael Christian, our CRIME AND JUSTICE producers who

researched the story for us. Judge Alex Ferrer and Judge Belvin Perry, my thanks to you too and to Kenya Johnson, our criminal prosecutor on this

case. So, there you go, little American justice for you on a global story that matters. It matters to you. And it matters to our president and how

he decides to render verdict. And we`ll see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern.

[20:00:02] "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED" with Hill Harper begins right now.

END