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Trump a Central Talking Point in Florida Governor Race; Georgia's GOP Gubernatorial Candidate Responds to Claims He's Suppressing Voters; Trump Blames Democrats for Immigrant Caravan; Kushner Still in "Fact-Finding" Phase about Khashoggi Killing; Washington Post: Mueller Looking in Stone/WikiLeaks Ties. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired October 22, 2018 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:31:51] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: With the midterm elections two weeks away, we are watching the state of Florida. New CNN polling shows the Democratic candidate for governor, Andrew Gillum, has a solid lead over Republican candidate, Ron DeSantis. Both faced off in a fiery CNN debate last night, making one final pitch to voters. And President Trump was a central talking point. Watch this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR & DEBATE MODERATOR: Congressman DeSantis, you featured your children where you are encouraging them to, quote, "build the wall" out of toy blocks and reading a children's story about the president saying, "you're fired." Do you think President Trump is a good role model for the children of Florida?

SEN. RON DESANTIS, (R), FLORIDA: Jake, my wife and I were poking fun at ourselves because of the way the campaign was going. And I'm proud of my family. I don't read "The Art of the Deal" to my son, Mason. He's a great kid, and he smiles at anything, but that's not his cup of tea. So here's what I know. I was very passionate about moving our American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: S.E. Cupp and Errol Louis are still with us.

He didn't really answer, S.E., the question about whether or not the president is a good role model. He changed the conversation to moving the embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED: Yes. Talk about a non-sequester. That was remarkable. It is not hard for somebody who made the decision to be one of Trump's biggest cheerleaders. He made it early and often. It's in part why he won the nomination. It's not hard to answer that question. You say, of course, he is a role model. Not every president was beloved, move on. But for him to completely sidestep that was just -- I don't know. A real - I'm shocked by it. ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It emphasizes that tightrope

that every candidate running as a Trump Republican is going to face, that you can alienate a lot of people by failing to call out Donald Trump or by calling out Donald Trump. He was stuck. He can't afford to alienate his Republican base and he needs every last one to come out if he's going to close the gap. He can't afford to inflame the many, many people in Florida going in a different direction.

BLITZER: Tonight, the president is in Texas at a rally for Senator Ted Cruz, in a fight with Beto O'Rourke. That relationship between Cruz and the president is complicated.

CUPP: Complicated.

BLITZER: Watch what they used to say about each other in the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: L-Y-I-N-', Lyin' Ted.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS: He's a man who cannot tell the truth. And he combines it with being a narcissist.

TRUMP: He's a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody in Congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere once they get to know him.

CRUZ: Donald yells and screams and curses or insults.

TRUMP: I think he's crazy. Honestly, I think he's crazy.

CRUZ: Donald, you are a sniveling coward and leave Heidi the hell alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was then. Tonight will be pretty different.

CUPP: Few things have been more uncomfortable to watch then the emasculation, Trump's emasculation of male supporters. One-time enemies-turned supporters. It's uncomfortable. It exposes the performance art of politics. I don't think it's a good look on either party.

BLITZER: The president when he was a candidate during the debate, he basically accused Ted Cruz's father of being involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.

[13:35:10] LOUIS: Yes, I mean, a lot of crazy stuff that was coming out of Trump's mouth. This is not the end of it. If Ted Cruz pulls it out, Donald Trump will take the credit. If Ted Cruz loses, he will say, I tried to help that loser, and he will go back to his 2015, 2016 talking points.

BLITZER: Errol, S.E., guys, thanks very much.

"S.E. CUPP UNFILTERED," Saturday night is the new show.

CUPP: Thank you.

BLITZER: I watch it every night at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

We are proud of you.

CUPP: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: A CNN exclusive coming up. Surveillance footage appears to show a Saudi body double leaving the consulate in Turkey in the murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi's clothes. How are the Saudis explaining this?

Plus, Georgia's Republican candidate for governor just responding to claims he is suppressing voters in his role as Georgia's secretary of state. We have details.

A lot more news, coming up.

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[13:40:35] BLITZER: Georgia is fast becoming ground zero over voter suppression. The governor's race there pits the secretary of state, Brian Kemp, against state representative, Stacey Abrams, who, if victorious, would be the first African-American woman elected governor of any state. Kemp's office, which overseas elections in Georgia, is being sued in federal court for purging as many as 700,000 voters from the polls over the past two years. Some have fallen victim to state laws who remove people who didn't vote for three years or whose name on the voting role doesn't exactly match the name on their driver's license. Many don't know they can't vote until they show up on Election Day.

Right now, Kemp is responding to a lawsuit in one county where 595 absentee ballots were rejected, thrown out because the ballot signatures didn't exactly match the signatures on voter registrations. Kemp said the voters can still submit new ballots before Election Day.

Joining us now, New York Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, a Democrat and a member of the Judiciary Committee and the Congressional Black Caucus.

You have heard similar stories elsewhere?

REP., HAKEEM JEFFRIES, (D), NEW YORK: Unfortunately, throughout much of America, in the runup to the midterm election, we are seeing intense efforts at voter suppression. One of the things we realized during the Trump era is, while Jim Crow may be dead, he has nieces and nephews who are alive and well. This is a classic Jim Crow playbook effort to deny the ability of people, in this case or often African- Americans, the ability to vote.

BLITZER: The president's warning about voter fraud in the midterms, illegal immigrants voting. Is that a serious issue?

JEFFRIES: It's not a serious issue because there's no real evidence of voter fraud in connection with the 2016 election. Trump's own Voter Fraud Commission was disbanded. It was a phony effort and revealed nothing and no longer exists. Just like there was no evidence of voter fraud in connection with the 2016 election, there was no reason to believe that will be an issue in a runup to the midterms.

BLITZER: What, if anything, can you do about efforts of voter suppression effecting minority voters?

JEFFRIES: As many of the civil rights groups have done, it's important to vindicate the rights of these voters in the Article III federal court system and, hopefully, you will have reasonably just judges who will preside and open up access to the ballot. Voting is fundamental to the integrity of our democracy, Wolf, and so we need to make sure that every American that wants to cast a ballot is able to do so.

BLITZER: Former President Barack Obama is campaigning in Las Vegas for Democratic candidates. This criticism is this energizes the Republican base and potentially hurts the Democrats? You buy that?

JEFFRIES: I don't buy it. Barack Obama is very popular amongst wide swaths of the American people and certainly the coalition that we need to put together to energize the Democratic base, plus Independents, where Barack Obama is polling at very high factorability numbers and even moderate Republicans in suburban communities, all look at the tenure of Barack Obama's presidency and know he made America a better place.

BLITZER: Getting to the caravan of about 7500 migrants making their way from Honduras and Guatemala up through Mexico to the United States, President Trump said every time you see a caravan like this, he says, quote, "Think of and blame the Democrats."

You are a Democrat. What's your reaction?

JEFFRIES: That's ridiculous. We want comprehensive immigration reform. It's a broken system and we need to fix it. This is an example of Donald Trump as master of distraction. One day he wants to talk about the caravan and the next day the transgender community and tomorrow it will be the NFL players. We, as Democrats, are not taking the bait. We are focused on lowering the health care costs, increase pay, cleaning up corruption, fighting for the people, no matter what distraction Donald Trump tries to put before us.

BLITZER: He's raising a lot of fear. In his tweet today, he said, "Criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in. I've alerted Border Control and the military that this is a national emergy." He meant emergency. "Must change laws!"

Our people are down and talking to these people and they haven't seen any Middle Easterners.

JEFFRIES: No reasonable person can believe anything Donald Trump has to say. Hopefully, at some point, once Democrats take control of the House of Representatives, we will be able to focus on doing the business of the American people and stop taking the bait from all of these shiny objects that Donald Trump tries to put forward to energize the hard right in his base.

[13:45:18] BLITZER: Let me get your quick thoughts on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, the Saudi journalist. Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior advisor, he said they are still collecting the facts. Where do you stand? What should the U.S. be doing as they continue to collect the facts?

JEFFRIES: The U.S. needs to conduct its own independent investigation. We have the highest level of intelligence capabilities in the world and the opportunity to work with the Turkish authorities who have good insight into what may have taken place. We should not whitewash this investigation and to excuse the brutal behavior that took place, probably at the direction of the crown prince.

BLITZER: You have no doubt about that? You say probably?

JEFFRIES: We will see what the investigation reveals, but every sign points to the fact that this was a high-level operation filled with kill teams and escape plans and body doubles, and no reasonable person can look at the situation and conclude that the crown prince was not likely involved.

BLITZER: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, of New York, thanks for joining us.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Up next, a polio-like virus continues to spread among kids, and doctors don't know how or why. The CDC releasing new numbers moments ago.

Also, why Robert Mueller's special counsel reportedly is deepening its investigation into Trump ally, Roger Stone, and his ties to WikiLeaks.

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[13:51:03] BLITZER: All right. Just into CNN, cases of a rare polio-like illness paralyzing children across the United States, they are on the rise right now, the cases. The CDC says they're now investigating 155 cases of what's called acute flaccid myelitis in nearly two dozen states, up from 127 cases reported just last week. So far, not a lot is known about AFM or what causes it. The disease affects the nervous system and is mostly found in children. Symptoms include sudden weakness in arms or legs, troubled breathing and slurred speech.

There's other news we're following. Roger Stone in the crosshairs right now of the special prosecutor, Robert Mueller. The "Washington Post" reports that the longtime ally of Donald Trump is being looked at over possible ties to WikiLeaks and whether he had prior knowledge of the release of Hillary Clinton's e-mails.

Joining us now, CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson.

So, Joey, what do you think? What kind of -- what are they really looking at right now? How significant is this?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's highly significant, Wolf, to being with. But remember, this is not new. Certainly, he's been in the crosshairs for quite some time. And you know that by virtue of the associates that they're looking at. They're not only looking at him, but in looking at him, they're looking at everybody with whom he associates, whether it's his social media director, whether it's the person with which he lived with for a longtime, Sam Nunberg. So at this point, you know, he has given information, he testified in 2017, as you know, in front of the House Intelligence Committee. And at that point, he said he had no knowledge in terms of the WikiLeaks, the contact and the connection with him and Julian Assange. He pretty much denied that. I think there's a few things they're looking at. Number one, they always look to the lie. Whether or not you give misinformation. As we know, if you testify before Congress and give misinformation, you need not be under oath, it would be a lie and it would be a crime. Number two, they look at issues, if you did give misinformation, does it rise to the level of obstruction of justice? Number three, if he did know about any type of dump of this information, as he's bragged about and said, oh, I really don't know anything, you look towards conspiracy. And I think there's a fourth prong, Wolf, quickly. When the special counsel looks and investigates, it's not only what they're investigating, which is the connection with Russia, it's any other financial or other information that could embroil you in any illegality. I think there's exposure here and it could be highly problematic.

BLITZER: Let's just be precise. If he knew in advance of the WikiLeaks release of these e-mails from Hillary Clinton and others, is that necessarily a crime?

JACKSON: Well, it depends upon where you fall. If you know about the information and that's it, OK, well, there's a lot of things you or I might know that, you know, that doesn't necessarily amount to a crime. The issue is whether or not he colluded. To what end did he know about it? It seemed like he knew an awful lot. These are questions of fact. Remember that any indictment simply means two things. That there's reasonable cause to believe that a crime was committed and that he committed it. Could it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that, with "A," he knew in advance and, number two, he coordinated? That's another matter. But if you get to the matter of coordination in releasing that information, then, yes, it would be a crime.

BLITZER: He has said several times that he expects to be indicted. Do you think he will be?

JACKSON: And he's raising money for it. I do. And I want to predicate that by saying, not because I believe he's guilty, he may not be. That's going to be an issue for facts and due process, but because the standard is so low, reasonable cause to believe that a crime has been committed. Look at the statements he's made regarding his knowledge about Wikileaks, look at how he's pretty much reserved from those statements. I think that there's reason to believe that he may have had information about WikiLeaks and what they knew, and he will be indicted as a result.

BLITZER: And we know that Robert Mueller and his team have interviewed a lot of his associates.

JACKSON: Yes, we do.

BLITZER: So we'll see where this lines up.

Joey, thank you so much for joining us. Joey Jackson.

JACKSON: Thank you, Wolf, of course.

BLITZER: Just in, the House minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, said Democrats would handedly win the upcoming midterm elections and take the majority in the House if the election was held today. But you're going to hear her caveat. And as we know, the election isn't being held today.

[13:55:01] Plus, stunning new CNN reporting, exclusive new CNN reporting, the Saudis appear to have used a body double in the apparent cover-up of a murdered journalist. You're going to see what we found.

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[14:00:05] ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erica Hill, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

Fifteen days. Fifteen days until the midterms, an election former President Obama is calling the most important of his lifetime.