Return to Transcripts main page
HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Shocking Video Shows Body Double as Part of Saudi Cover-Up; Trump Admits Saudi Account Contains Lies; Putin To Meet Bolton On Tuesday; May Says E.U. Withdrawal Deal 95 Percent Settled; Trump Makes Caravan A U.S. Campaign Issue; U.S. Economic Data Strong Ahead Of Midterms; Australian PM Apologizes To Child Sex Abuse Victims; High-Profile Disappearances Raise Concerns. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 22, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. A new week live from CNN London. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in for Hala
Gorani. Tonight, shocking, exclusive video of the day of Jamal Khashoggi's killing. There's doubt on the story that the death was accidental. Also,
on the program tonight, the U.S. national security adviser is in Moscow just as the rhetoric ramped up over a cold war nuclear treaty.
Heading north thousands of migrants walking through Mexico right now hoping to reach the United States. But President Trump is letting them know they
are not welcome.
But we start the program with a CNN exclusive. Stunning new footage that appears to severely undercut Saudi Arabia's claim that the death of the
journalist Jamal Khashoggi was a, quote, terrible mistake. Video obtained by CNN shows Khashoggi entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Then,
chillingly, a body double emerges in Khashoggi's own clothes. We have the details.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL REPORTER: At first glance, this man could pass for Jamal Khashoggi. And that's the idea. These are the last
known images of Khashoggi's live moments before he entered the Saudi consulate. Same clothes. Same glasses and beard.
Similar age and physique. Everything except the shoes. But a senior Turkish official tells CNN that the man on the left is a body double, one
of 15 Saudi operatives sent to kill Khashoggi and then cover it up. His name is Mustafa al Madani. He arrived in a plaid shirt and jeans at 11:03
and then two hours latter, Khashoggi arrives.
He was killed inside shortly afterwards. While his fiancee waited, we're told the man came out through the back exit, disturbingly, appears to be
wearing the clothing of the murdered journalist, the intent Turkish investigators say was to perpetuate the lie that Khashoggi left the
consulate unharmed. The apparent double and companion take a taxi to a mosque.
It's one of Istanbul's main tourist attractions and an easy place to get lost in a crowd. The men head to the bathroom. The accomplice carries a
plastic bag. When they emerge, the man is wearing his own clothes again. And just like that, Jamal Khashoggi disappeared forever or the Saudis would
have had the world believe. Little did they know Turkish authorities would quickly uncover the cover-up?
From the next stop at a nearby restaurant, the man appeared to have ditched the fake beard to a dumpster and dumping the plastic bag. The senior
official says investigators believe it likely contained Khashoggi's clothes. As they head back to their hotel, the pair appear visibly
relaxed. Their mission is complete. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Istanbul.
JONES: Turkey's ruling party calling the killing a complicated murder that was, quote, monstrously planned. Turkish President himself is expected to
speak out on this very case tomorrow vowing as he has all along to reveal the truth. We're live in turkey and in Saudi Arabia tonight. Ben Wedeman
joins us and Sam Kiley. Sam, to you first. What's the Saudi response? The response from the royals in particular. To this latest evidence, this
suggestion of premeditated murder?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know if it's in response to this because the Saudis have been parsimonious with the
information but they did tweet the revelations earlier today saying throughout its history the kingdom never targeted anybody, any claims about
the kingdom targeting its citizen, Jamal Khashoggi, god have mercy on his soul, are false, untrue claims. And earlier on today, Hannah, there was
another statement from the royal court saying that the king himself and his son Mohammed Bin Salman had been in touch with the Khashoggi family here in
Saudi Arabia to offer their condolences.
[14:05:00] This is all consistent with a new position that the Saudis have adopted or at least a new position they're adopting in public which is that
the state did not consider Mr. Khashoggi an enemy of the state or a threat to the state and, therefore, it had no motive in this killing. Adding to
the grist for the Saudi mill that this was a rogue operation, unsanctioned from the very top, Hannah.
JONES: Yes. Sam, stand by for us. I want to bring in Ben Wedeman in Istanbul for us. Ben, the latest reports we are hearing at least while the
investigation continues where you are into what happened to Jamal Khashoggi and reports of an abandoned Saudi consulate car in Istanbul. What can you
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This car was found in a car park. It's a Saudi car, rather car with Saudi diplomatic
plates, apparently it was left there a few days after Jamal Khashoggi was killed by a Turkish driver working for the consulate. Now, we do know that
Turkish investigators went to the car park.
They looked, searched around the car itself and they have not gone, searched the interior yet. Perhaps because it's diplomatic property and
they have to get permission from the Saudis. We understand that that search will take place tomorrow. But as that latest piece of evidence
comes to light, certainly there's a lot of anticipation of tomorrow's speech by Turkish President Erdogan in Ankara where he says he's going to
reveal the naked truth and we did hear today from his spokesman who said that nothing about this event will remain hidden.
Which raises the question, well, the one thing everybody's asking about that remains hidden to the public is the audio recording that the Turks
have said anonymous official sources, that is, that proves that Jamal Khashoggi was killed and dismembered inside this building behind me. So
tomorrow will certainly perhaps bring another more dramatic chapter to this very exciting saga.
JONES: Yes. And, Sam, Ben was talking about President Erdogan talking about revealing the naked truth some point this week. The reports, as
well, suggest that Jared Kushner, President Trump's son-in-law and special adviser, he is advising the Saudi royals, MBS and Mohammed bin Salman in
particular about how to go forward and urging transparency. Do you think that advice is going to be heed?
KILEY: Well, there will be -- as much transparency as the Saudis can give. They don't yet have the evidence, at least they haven't put it in the
public domain of who gave did order for this abduction or attempted abduction which is how it's been characterized beyond saying there was a
standing order to intelligence services to encourage critics of the government here to return home.
So, that is ultimately the great unanswered question and it's a question, frankly, if it did lead to the very top many allies of Saudi Arabia would
probably not want answered, Hannah. There's an awful lot at stake beyond the moral obscenity of a murder and politic to come in play.
We'll see that tomorrow, the Davos in the Desert jamboree to open tomorrow, many, many chief executives, ministers, treasury secretary isn't going,
German, French, British trade and finance ministers aren't coming and many more junior executives are coming and the new prime minister of Pakistan is
certainly going to be coming. So, this will be a moment when Mohammed Bin Salman may emerge in public more or less at the same time as he may face
some embarrassing revelations if Mr. Erdogan's -- the preamble to his speech is to be believed.
JONES: Yes. And, Ben, last word to you then on this given the politic to set play at the moment. How are international leaders reacting to this
latest evidence, this CNN exclusive, of perhaps a body double being used or that there was some kind of premeditated murder on the part of the Saudis
taking place here?
[14:10:00] WEDEMAN: Well, certainly, after seeing Clarissa's report, it's a little hard to conclude that it was not utterly premeditated. You know?
You do not bring somebody who's a body double to the man you're supposed to be only talking to or perhaps giving a document to. Instead, this was
obviously a very complicated operation. And we have heard western leaders, even prior to this revelation by Clarissa Ward, expressing doubt about the
situation, the details surrounding the death of Jamal Khashoggi.
I mean, and for instance, we do know that the German chancellor is considering an arms embargo. Jeremy Hunt of the U.K. also cast doubt on
the Saudi version of events. Really, I think as far as the Saudis are concerned, they are looking to an audience of one which perhaps explains
why Saudi foreign minister spoke on Fox News yesterday because he wants to get his message directly to President Trump. President Trump also seems to
be moderating his earlier confidence in the Saudi version of events and so certainly the Saudis I imagine are feeling a bit isolated at the moment
with the exception, of course, of their Arab allies who stepped forward and did, indeed, kiss the hand that feeds them.
JONES: All right. Ben Wedeman and Sam Kiley, my thanks to you both. Let's continue on with the theme that ben was talking about and the U.S.
reaction to all of this. As evidence of the Saudi cover-up continues the mount, the U.S. government is, of course, in a tough position. President
Donald Trump says it is clear there's been lies on the part of the Saudis. But he also maintains Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is a key ally. Mr.
Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner as I mentioned, he spoke to CNN earlier today. He stressed that it is too early to make snap
judgments about the Saudi leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED KUSHNER, PERSONAL ADVISER TO TRUMP: We're more in the fact-finding phase and we're obviously getting as many facts as we can from the
different places. And then we'll determine which facts are credible and then after that, the President and the Secretary of State will make a
determination as to what we, you know, deem to be credible and what actions we think we should take. I'll also say that we have to be able to work
with our allies and Saudi Arabia's been I think a very strong ally in terms of pushing back against Iran's aggression which is funding a lot of terror
in the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Let's get more on the White House thinking about this then from our Kaitlan Collins joining us from the White House. Good do see you. Jared
Kushner there saying they're still on a fact-finding mission as far as Khashoggi's case is concerned. Do you get the impression the U.S. is
giving the Saudis quite a lot of leeway, effectively a month until they report in the hope that this might all wash over in the time?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's what the critics ask here. Will they accept that one-month time line the Saudis said they
need to investigate all of this? You didn't hear blame at their feet or strongly condemning what happened.
He referenced the murder of Khashoggi saying it was a terrible situation but that was about as far as he went and there answering that question he
was asked can the Saudis investigate themselves here since they're the ones accused of masterminding this murder and Kushner said they're focusing on
finding out what the facts are going to be and then put it off on President Trump and Secretary of State Pompeo even though he's the one with the close
relationship to the Saudi crown prince, of course.
He did say one interesting thing and stressing the importance of the U.S./Saudi relationship. That's something we have heard from President
Trump and the Secretary of State, as well. Which could give some indication of where the United States is going to head with all of this and
how they respond because we know President Trump doesn't want to affect the arms deal at all and go other routes he believes.
There are plenty of other options and a big question here and we did see Jared Kushner trying to put distance between himself and the Saudis today
saying the middle east is not in the portfolio. He is part of the Israeli/Palestinian peace process and raises questions since he's the one
with the close relationship with MBS and who MBS called when the drama developing into a full-blown crisis and he's the one who hosted MBS for
dinner coming to Washington at the beginning of the year and also the one who persuaded President Trump to make Riyadh his first destination for the
first foreign trip and questions of the role playing here.
[14:15:00] But he didn't shed a lot of new light on what President Trump's latest thinking on all of this is and whether or not they believe that the
Saudis are credible and if so how they believe that since we have seen a shifting narrative of the Saudis.
JONES: If MBS isn't on Kushner's brief maybe he should have since they have a seemingly close contact and contact, as well. If there's any
retaliation of the U.S. towards the Saudis, when might that come and what shape might that be?
COLLINS: It doesn't seem like Congress buys the one-month time line and seen allies of the President critical of that saying, hey, it is already 20
days since Khashoggi walked into the consulate and never walked out. So that's really the question here but that's something that the White House
hasn't answered. We should hear from President Trump soon. He is going to leave the White House to go to a campaign rally tonight. Whether or not he
comments on this, that's what we're waiting to see and so far no indication of when to respond or even what the consequences could be for this.
JONES: Kaitlan Collins live for us at the White House, thank you.
Still to come tonight, a cold war era treaty on the edge of collapsing. We are live in Moscow and in Washington coming up next.
Also, ahead, Theresa May on the brink or is she? We'll bring you the very latest on Brexit as the prime minister claims a deal is in sight.
JONES: Welcome back. The U.S. and Russia are holding high stakes talks in Moscow right now. American national security adviser John Bolton met with
his Russian counterparts on Monday. Bolton is meeting Russian officials after President Trump said he is pulling the U.S. out of the nuclear
missile pact. Both countries accuse the others of violating the treaty. Russian state media said the Kremlin is ready to work with the U.S. to
remove mutual objections. Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. Ryan Browne at the Pentagon for us. Fred, to you first, the latest meetings then that Bolton
is holding, what's the latest to come out of them?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not very much so far. There haven't been any press availabilities. The meeting already
concluded with Lavrov and no press availability after that and the picture we saw before was actually John Bolton meeting with the Nikolai Patrushev,
Russian national security adviser and apparently that meeting went on for five hours and he is the one that said that the Russians would be willing
to work on areas of mutual concern. Now, just because the two men, the foreign minister and Mr. Bolton, didn't have a press conference today
didn't mean that Sergey Lavrov didn't have strong words for the Americans. They said if the U.S. pulls out of the INF treaty that the Russians will
retaliate. Here's what Sergey Lavrov had to say.
[14:20:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Any action in this area will be met with counter action. Strategic stability can only
be achieved on the basis of parity. And we'll do everything to keep up that parity. We are responsible for global stability. We hope that the
United States will not give up its share of responsibility either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So, the Russians here, they want parody. This means if the U.S. were to deploy any sort of medium-range nuclear weapons, the Russians would
do the same thing and Russian politics warning about the possibility of a possible new arms race. Obviously, something that a lot of people
everywhere will be quite concerned about but I think, Hannah, what the Russians essentially want from the visit by John Bolton is clarity, to know
whether or not what they heard on the weekend of President Trump is something that's final, a decision that's been made or wiggle room to
salvage this agreement. Hannah?
JONES: Let's go to Ryan Browne for perhaps an answer to that. As we're hearing from Fred, President Trump has said that's it. The U.S. is pulling
out of this, Ryan. But now we're hearing tonight that John Bolton is trying to maybe negotiate some mutual concerns within this treaty. Can he
still revive it?
RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hannah, the United States has long said that Russia's been in violation and accused Russia of deploying
and fielding a missile that violates the treaty and this is long been a position of the United States and moved the ball forward to withdraw the
treaty and some people think this could be a negotiating tactic, a way to nudge the Russians back into compliance but again President Trump also
cited China's missile arsenal as a reason for the U.S. getting out so it could -- looking broader, makes it more difficult to think it's a
negotiating tactic purely.
JONES: Fred, European allies will be particularly concerned about this presumably given the fact that some of the missiles have a wide range,
something like 400 to 5,400 kilometers putting them in target. What's Europe have to say about it so far?
PLEITGEN: Well, and you know, European concerns were the reason that the treaty was put in place in the first place between the Soviet Union and
United States and European countries had problems, didn't really want American intermediate and short-range missiles on the territory and feared
the soviet and Russian short-range missiles and one thing about them, a moment it's launched until impact isn't very much time and somebody trying
to seek shelter would have a very difficult time doing that and being able to find that. So that's one of the reasons I think why you're hearing some
concerns of allies. NATO for the part said it's fully on the side of the United States. The Germans voiced concerns and have the Italians and would
fear if indeed there was a new arms race, if you will, that could possibly affect the security of Europe, as well, Hannah.
JONES: Yes. And Ryan, last question to you. We have been talking about U.S. provocative action should we say? Reports today that U.S. warships
have passed through the Taiwan Strait and sure to upset some people in that region.
BROWNE: Well, that's absolutely right. Beijing very concerned about U.S. military activity in the Taiwan Strait. Of course, that 110-mile wide body
of water separating Taiwan and the People's Republic of China. The Chinese military shadowed the warships conducting this transit and multiple vessels
and followed them through.
The U.S. recently sanctioned China for its purchase of Russian weaponry, a high profile meeting in Beijing was called off and then made up in
Singapore and tensions on issues of trade, accusations of election meddling and another show of force by the United States to show in the during kind
of tense conversations and conversations, the U.S. will continue to maintain a military presence in international waters in areas that China
sees as particularly sensitive from a military perspective.
JONES: My thanks to you both.
Now, the British prime minister continues to face dissent and attacks from within her own party over her Brexit strategy. May delivered an update to
the House of Commons today on the state of Brexit negotiations.
[14:25:00] In a bid to convince skeptical MPs that the deal is almost done. There is, of course, one major catch. The Irish border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Taking all of this together, 95 percent of the withdrawal agreement and its protocols are now settled. There is
one real sticking point left but a considerable one which is, how we guarantee in the unlikely event the future relationship is not in place by
the end of the implementation agreement there's no return to a hard border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: The trouble is that remaining 5 percent could be the most difficult to settle. Politicians condemned violent language used against the prime
minister in her own party after three unnamed conservative MPs told "The Sunday Times" and I quote she'll be dead soon. Assassination is in the air
and that the prime minister is now entering the, quote, killing zone. And also, that the moment is coming when the knife gets stuck in her front and
twisted. Nasty stuff. To discuss this, let's bring in Bianca Nobilo. The sticking point being a transition. Will it be extended and at what cost
presumably to British taxpayers?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The sticking point remains as we have been discussing how to avoid that hard border in North
Ireland. There's two options. Either the EU and the U.K. agree on a legally binding customs area and she says they're working towards that at
the moment or an extension of the implementation period and that is something that makes both groups uneasy. And of course, she is saying that
95 percent of the deal is done. But as a Labor MP pointed out 95 percent of the Titanic's voyage was successful. That's how many people see it.
That's the hardest part. A prominent peer said it's like building an aircraft and then missing the right wing. It is the essential component
for a successful negotiation to be executed.
JONES: I think you put it diplomatically saying some people are finding that uneasy in the conservative party. The language in the last 48 hours,
also. Is anyone sort of like rowing back on that?
NOBILO: Well Yes. Absolutely nothing diplomatic about the language whatsoever and an outcry of Parliament from all parties about the language
used and directed at the prime minister. Party members from the Labor Party, her opposition, have called it vile. Inappropriate. Many people
called for the MPs to be named to be punished through the parliamentary system and a couple MPs reminded the media of the assassination of Jo Cox,
the Labor Party MP killed in the run-up to the referendum campaign in 2016 and essential that politics don't normalize this rhetoric and they are
after all the ones that people look up to and often not the case and how people feel about the politicians. That is what they should be doing, many
MPs argue. Just briefly, she spoke to the commons today. She is facing the party face to face this week.
That's expected on Wednesday and in fact some of those terms you were just referencing were written in regard to that meeting, the fact to bring a
noose to the meeting and facing the committee with the power to depose her if they get enough letters calling for the vote of no confidence an threats
for many weeks now on the precipice of that happening. Now, I don't think there's enough organization in the Brexiteer camp for an intentional move
right now and no means to say it won't happen by accident and we can see from that language how incensed many of her back benches are.
JONES: On the precipice of ending the career and she would say of getting the deal done. The conversation will continue. Thank you very much.
Still to come on the program tonight, as thousands and thousands of desperate migrants march north towards the U.S. border, the White House
vows to stop them. Plus, Donald Trump and Republicans using the caravan as a campaign strategy heading into the midterm elections. Will it pay off at
the polls? We'll be discussing all of that ahead.
[14:30:15] VAUGHAN: Welcome back. They are on dangerous journey with an unknown final destination. Thousands of Central American men, women, and
children, whose lives are breached by violence and poverty, currently traveling north through Mexico, with a dream of starting a new life in the
But the U.S. president is letting them know they are not wanted. Donald Trump tweeted, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador weren't able to stop
people coming illegally through the U.S. And he threatens to cut off or lower foreign aid to those country. Mr. Trump also says he's alerted the
U.S. border patrol off the, "national emergency" at play at the moment.
Now, it's not clear how many of these migrant families will even make it to the United States border. Mexican authorities have reached out the help
from the U.N. high commissioner refugees to process some of the people seeking refugee spaces.
Our Patrick Oppmann joins us now from outside Tapachula in Mexico. That's the city about 37 kilometers north of the Guatemala border. Patrick, first
of all, first off, I want to just give buns if we can some of the claims by Donald Trump in his tweets from earlier today. He said that the migrant
caravan was all organized by the Democrats and he also said that there was an unknown number of Middle Easterners among the migrants. Anything that
you've seen that justifies that?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. I've been with this group now for three days and nearly everybody -- I was -- 99 percent of the people that
I've interacted with -- Honduran migrants heading north because they want to reunite with families or they want to have better opportunities. There
are many that you've seen. The parents say that they're doing it for the young children. That they are literally carrying on their shoulders north.
And I've met a handful of Salvadorans but I've not met many Middle Easterners because they're simply none here. And as well some of the other
claims that these people are all criminals or those are dangerous. When you ask them now, they said they're workers. There are people that are
fleeing the country. They're proud to be from Honduras, they say.
But they say in recent months of the year of the crime there has gotten so bad that the economy has gotten so bad there that is just untenable and
they are going north to find somewhere better to find opportunities that don't exist back home. And as well they take their children some place
where they can live in relative safety.
But in terms of those tweets that those are just not accurate. In terms of the Democrats organizing all this, there's very little organization at all
this is not well-funded. You see behind me people are actually asking for rides, for Mexicans who are driving north and they're simply not enough
Some people are walking in what is just a brutal heat and other people are climbing in the back of trucks of people who were kind of enough to take
them north. But it is not a well-organized caravan by anyone, Democrats or otherwise, Hannah.
JONES: So we shouldn't take it too seriously what he said about that, based on your reporting, Patrick. But I'm wondering about his threats to
withdraw foreign aid to certain Central American countries that he says -- that Donald Trump says that aren't doing enough to stop these people from
heading north to the U.S. border. Are those countries, their governments, are they taking that threat seriously?
OPPMANN: Oh, very much so. And you've seen the Guatemalan president come north over the weekend and meet with his Honduran counterpart to figure out
how to get migrants back several thousands have returned to Honduras by way of Guatemala. But it's just a paradox. If the U.S. pulls funding,
millions of dollars of funding, very important funding for these poor countries that are -- have been driven by war and face a very direct
[14:35:08] If U.S. does pull out funding, if he follows through on his threat, if Donald Trump follows through on his threat, that is just going
to continue to cycle of people heading north because the situation would get worse in that country and people, as a result would continue to head
north. So it's really hard to see how that is a plan and how pulling funding from these countries will help the situation.
And as well, Hannah, I should just point out, that Mexico has got lot more resources and has put hundreds of police officers all on the road to try
and stop these migrants. They've bene unable as well. There are quite -- it's quite simply too many people traveling north to south.
JONES: Patrick Oppmann, we appreciate your reporting on this, in Mexico there near the border. Thank you.
Now, all of this is projected to play out at the polls in just days now for the U.S. midterm elections. U.S. president Donald Trump and the Republican
Party are using the migrant caravan as a way to setup their hardline starts on illegal immigration, a top issue for voters.
Joining me to discuss the midterms and all of this is our CNN White House Reporter, Stephen Collinson. Stephen, good to see you. So let's talk
about immigration and how big a part that is going to play then into this vote next month. And even if the pictures that we see are devastating and
people are -- you know, it pulls on the heartstrings the human toll that this migrant caravan is taking -- people still likely to side with the
Republicans or with Donald Trump in terms of a hardline crackdown on people moving north?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think these pictures are actually playing into Donald Trump's argument and willing to use --
willingness to use immigration as a campaign issue. An issue which has been a winner for him, ever since he started running for office for the
president in 2016.
He is arguing in very inflammatory rhetoric that the United States is facing a crisis is under siege so much, surge of humanity from criminals
and people who want to come here and take the jobs of Americans.
Now, it doesn't matter that that is factually incorrect, as we've been hearing from Patrick. It's the pictures that are the powerful thing here.
Trump can use those pictures to demagogue this issue in his campaign rallies. He's getting support from his allies and conservative media and
using this as a way to fire up the Republican base ahead of the midterm elections now in two weeks. He is --
JONES: Sorry, go ahead.
COLLINSON: Sorry. And I was going to say that there is evidence that it is working in some areas, particularly in the red Republican states where
he needs to bolster his candidates in order for Republicans to cling onto the Senate.
JONES: Yes. And I guess one of those states would be Texas. And let's talk about that in a second. But just very briefly remaining on this
immigration point, Stephen, as this caravan makes it way to the U.S. border, that could coincide quite fortunately-unfortunately with the both,
with the midterm elections.
So if we get -- if we see more images of these sort of separated families that we saw a couple of months back, that could have a reverse effect a
negative impact on GOP Senate presumably.
COLLINSON: I think the president isn't going close to the separations issue. You remember when people were coming across, families were coming
across the border, their children were taken away and we had all those images of people being locked up. I don't think we're going to see that.
I think it's the power of these images of people marching towards the United States could help Trump and the Republicans certainly in the Senate.
Now, the question is, is this rhetoric from the president very -- sort of vicious rhetoric, you might say, towards these people going to hurt him in
other areas. We have a very interesting scenario in the midterm elections whereas the Senate, control of the Senate is being played out in Republican
states because of the exact seats that are up in this election.
Control of the House is going to be decided in much more moderates suburban areas. Many seats where Hillary Clinton actually beat Donald Trump in the
2016 elections. And you have Republicans who are in trouble because they're not moderate enough.
It's possible that these pictures and the president's approach to this could actually sort of drive up turnout among more liberal voters and sort
of turn off some more moderate voters who would vote Republican but may in places like Colorado, for example, where immigration is a huge issue.
There's large Hispanic communities may not vote Republicans is a consequence.
So it's not clear that this is a winner across the board for the president, although there could not be a backlash in some areas if this goes on for
another two weeks.
JONES: I said we were going to talk about Texas, so let's do it then. And name that many of our international viewers will know Ted Cruz, he
obviously rank for the presidency for the nomination, the GOP nomination. He was dubbed Lying Ted Cruz by candidate Trump at the time. Now, it seems
the president is going to go and campaign for him. Is this a lesson to all Republicans that you turn your back on this president at your peril?
COLLINSON: Right. And it's certainly an indication that the Republican Party is now Donald Trump's party. Remember, when he was running against
those 17 Republicans two years ago, he was the outlier and they were seen as more representative of conservative thoughts and the will of Republican
It's clear now that somebody like Ted Cruz wants the president to campaign for him. Well, it has been up until a few weeks ago, at least, a much more
difficult race than he was expecting in Texas. It's a sign of just exactly how much control Donald Trump has over the Republican Party. After all, if
you look at polls, between sort of 85 and 90 percent of Republicans support the president.
Recent National polls suggest that his approval rating is now ticking up to the highest level ever, 45 percent, 47 percent. That suggest that a lot of
Republican voters are coming back to the party in the week ahead -- weeks ahead of a midterm elections. So if that is the case, it's going to really
give a lift to candidates in Republican states who are having a tougher race than they expected, including Ted Cruz.
JONEs: Yes. And we could talk about the economy as well, but unfortunately, we've run out of time. But no doubt that will be a big
factor as well going into those midterm elections. Stephen Collinson, great to speak to you. Thank you.
Now, the U.S. economy is, by some measures, booming as we head into these midterms. And the global economic picture looks fairly stable. That's
despite rising geopolitical tensions. But are there signs that things might not be entirely bravely (INAUDIBLE) one of the worst, performing
stock markets this year and Wall Street has had a tough couple of weeks as well.
Our Global Economic Analyst, Rana Foroohar joins me now. Rana, great to see you. So as the geopolitical framework that we've all lived by for so
long seems to be crumbling at the moment, does that mean that the global economy is going to follow suits eventually?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMICS ANALYST: Well, it's a great question and, you know, many people are wondering why have we had more trouble in
the markets already? I mean, there are so many geopolitical risk out there on every continent. You could just, you know, name a dozen of them right
off the bat.
The thing is the markets don't really know how to price geopolitical risk. They're rare, they're one-off situations. A trade war with China, the E.U.
breaking up. These are sort of big complicated issues. Markets just don't know what to do with them. What markets do know how to respond to is
corporate earnings. And those have been pretty high recently. And as you mentioned, the U.S. figures -- economic figures in the last couple of
quarters have been pretty good.
Now, that said, the risk factor that I see out there is debt. We have actually way more debt out there in the world right now than we did even
before the financial crisis. A lot of has migrated to the emerging markets and to the corporate sector. And you can already see those areas starting
to have problems.
As of last spring, you started to see some divergence between U.S. stocks and emerging market stocks. China is having problems. Every time you hear
the Fed talk about raising the interest rates, which makes debt pricier, you start to see wobbles in the emerging markets. And I think you're going
to continue to see those.
JONES: Yes. And President Trump very, very unhappy about those rising rates as well from the Fed, as he's made very clear. And as far as his
presidency is concern, so far, he's made big moves as far as trade goes, trade war ongoing with - between the U.S. and China at the moment. He's
criticized Russia right now that this nuclear treaty that's being decided upon. Also NATO, about the funding there. I'm wondering at what point
will U.S. foreign policy start to have some kind of impact then on how the global picture looks, economically.
FOROOHAR: Well, it's interesting because, you know, a week or so ago when Trump first began criticizing the Fed for raising rates, you saw the market
correction then. Now, I think that that market correction was actually in part about the U.S.-China trade war, because if you look at the stocks that
fell, they were big tax stocks, I both the U.S. and China. And those are the stocks, those are -- that's the sector, technology that will be most
impacted by a trade war.
The race between the U.S. and China is really about whose going to influence and control these strategic sectors of the future. And so I
think the market is already pricing that in. I think if you see in a couple of quarters, the Chinese export data starting to really turn down
and there's a real quantifiable sense of China is being hit by a trade war, then I think you'll start going to start seeing more market ripples and
potentially ripples across the emerging markets which are very connected to China.
JONES: Rana, we know that markets don't like instability, generally, at least, anyway. But given the fact that this president is so much
unpredictable and unconventional, I'm wondering if you think that maybe perversely the markets are actually reacting better to the likes of Donald
Trump being in the White House, in the oval office, simply because they know -- they'll never be able to guess what his next move is.
[14:45:14] FOROOHAR: You know, that's an interesting question. I never heard quite that way. I think I might agree with that in a sense that the
market are kind of thrown up their hands pretty early on. Early on the Trump presidency, you saw a little but more reaction around the political.
I think now people are just saying, look, interest rates are still low. Earnings have been pretty good. There's been a lot of stock buybacks which
pushes up earnings artificially.
I think that when we see fewer of those, you're going to see markets start to react ultimately. It comes down to central bank. So we start to see
rates go up in the U.S. and elsewhere. You're going to see the markets react.
JONES: Rana Foroohar, great to get your perspective. Thank you for joining us in the program.
FOROOHAR: Thank you.
JONES: And still to come tonight, a public apology to thousands of child sex abuse victims. Australia's prime minister says the country failed to
protect survivors. We're going to have the very latest details on that after this break. Stay with us.
JONES: Amongst the category five hurricane is currently barreling towards Mexico's pacific coast. And forecast has warned it could be catastrophic.
Willa is on track to small ashore somewhere near the popular resort town of Mazatlan tomorrow.
The U.S. Hurricane Center says the storm picked up explosive strength over the past 48 hours. It is expected to weaken lightly before making landfall
but could still unleash life-threatening winds and flooding.
In an emotional statement. Australian Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, apologized publicly to victims of child sexual abuse on Monday. The rare
national apology came after a five-year investigation uncovered thousands of cases in Australian institutions, including churches and schools. Our
Will Ripley has the story.
SCOTT MORRISON, PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA: Not just as a father, but as a prime minister. I am angry too.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A rare moment of raw emotion in the Australian parliament. Prime Minister Scott Morrison giving an
official apology to thousands of victims of child sexual abuse.
MORRISON: We love you, we hear you, and we honor you. And again today we say sorry.
RIPLEY: This long-awaited apology comes after a five-year royal commission study. The report, shocked Australia. A staggering 17,000 survivors came
forward. Nearly 8,000 of them sharing their stories of abuse. Abuse hidden for decades by churches, schools, charities, the very institutions
trusted to protect children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Christians didn't give (BLEEP) about us. They don't care, and they still don't, and why these institutions still get
money when they've done all the damage to people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll do better to protect all children in Australia from abuse.
[14:50:03] RIPLEY: Some survivors and their families heckled the prime minister, angry about the lack of speed and limited scope of the systems.
A trusted catholic priest molested Chrissie Foster's two daughters. One killed herself in an overdose. A drunk driving crash left the other
disabled. Foster says repeated apologies by the Catholic Church are not genuine.
CHRISSIE FOSTER, MOTHER OF SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS: Anything they say in the form of an apology or things they've put in, hide some things because of
public outcry and pressure to do so. It's not something that come from the heart, which is where it's sort of come from.
RIPLEY: Australia will offer victims counseling and compensation. And if they want, a direct apology from the institution's complicit in their
abuse. Groundbreaking steps advocates hope will be a blueprint for other nations.
MORRISON: I simply say I believe you, we believe you, your country believes you.
RIPLEY: Words many feel they've been waiting for, for far too long.
Will Ripley, CNN.
JONES: An emotional apology there from the Australian prime minister. Stay with us here at CNN. We'll be right back.
JONES: Human rights advocates say two recent high profile disappearances in China should be a wakeup call about what's going on there. The
activists say the message from communist leaders in clear. No one is too big and anyone could be next. Matt Rivers reports now.
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The a-list actress and the Interpol chief, two is China's most famous international citizens, and yet, in President Xi
Jinping's authoritarian security state, each has proved powerless.
Fan Bingbing is one of China's biggest film stars, but in June this year, a former TV anchor accused the actress of not paying proper taxes, and within
weeks, she vanished. No one saw her for months.
In 2016, Meng Hongwei became the first Chinese head of Interpol. But last month on a visit to China, he disappeared. His wife told CNN his last
message to her was a knife emoji.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the beginning, I could not be certain what happened to him. And after I received his message, I knew that he was in
RIVERS: He's been accused of taking bribes in other crimes, but remains missing. Both disappearances are part of Xi Jinping's signature domestic
policy, a ruthless anti-corruption drive that's estimated to have netted more than one million government officials, so far, plus big fish in the
business world too. It's an easy way, critics say, for Xi to get rid of his enemies and terrorize their families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worry about his life. I don't know his life or what happened.
RIVERS: It's the feeling Li Wenzhou knows well, her husband, Wang Quanzhang is also in state custody. She hasn't seen or spoken to him in
more than three years.
"My biggest fear right now is whether or not he'll come out of jail alive."
She's protested for his release too, but her husband isn't rich, he's just a middleclass human rights lawyer, accused of, "Subversion of state power,"
imprisoned along with hundreds of other such lawyers and activists since 2015. They're often held in so called blocked jails. Unable to
communicate with the outside world. Prisoners we've spoken to alleged torture but China denies it. We found one of those jails in 2016.
[14:55:00] And to be honest, we didn't know what to expect when we were walking up here. But around here, it is relatively quiet. That's an
assuming building but it does belie what activists say goes on inside.
On Wednesday, back in Beijing, we saw Fan Bingbing in public for the first time in four months leaving the airport. She was accused of tax fraud
fined nearly $130 million. The only way it seems to emerge from the ranks of the disappeared is to gravel at the foot of the state. Without the
favorable policies of the communist party and state, there would have been no Fan Bingbing. She wrote on social media her only public statement so
"In China, it doesn't matter if you're a huge official or a famous actress. If they can disappear, anyone can. It means anyone can be next.
For China's president, Xi Jinping, the country's most powerful leader in decades and the man Donald Trump calls a good friend, there is no celebrity
too big or human rights lawyer too small who can't be taken down as a threat.
Matt Rivers, CNN, Beijing.
JONES: Now, they're often under fire for flight delays and cancellation. But this time, Ryanair is facing a whole new crisis. The budget airline is
being criticized for not doing more after a passenger went on a racist tirade towards another passenger. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will carry on as far as I can with this ugly black (BLEEP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Well, another passenger and a crew member tried to calm things down. The person who shot this video though says he thinks the crew should
have removed the man from the flight.
In a statement in response to criticism, Ryanair says it is aware of the video and it has reported the matter to police.
And finally, on day seven of their royal tour of Australia, Prince Harry and his wife Meghan, reunited on a Fraser Island of the east coast. The
Prince who has been flying solo, as his present wife got some rest, dedicated a forest on the island to the queens commonwealth program.
That's of course dear to both their hearts before the prince then met up with Meghan and met locals who showered them both with even more baby
The royal couple will spend a night on the island before heading to Fiji on Tuesday which is everything goes on that island.
Thank you so much for watching tonight. Stay with us here on CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.