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President Trump Comments on Immigrant Caravan at Rally; President Trump's Claims on Jobs Created by Saudi Arms Deal Examined; Interview with Ben Cardin (D-MD). Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your New Day. It is Tuesday, October 23rd, 8:00 in the east. I want to show you the big headlines in "The Washington Post" this morning. "Trump and Republicans settle on fear and falsehoods as a midterm strategy." Fear, and in some cases lying.

So what are they talking about? Well, the president is focusing on this caravan of thousands of desperate migrants who are more than 1,000 miles from the U.S. border with Mexico. The president is insisting with zero evidence that dangerous criminals are embedded among them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As the caravan -- and, look, that is an assault on our country. That's an assault.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: And in that caravan, you have some very bad people. You have some very bad people. And we can't let that happen to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, he's offered no evidence for that claim, but of course it is designed to scare us. And the president is not stopping there. He claims to know specifically what kind of dangerous people are traveling with the migrants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are going to find MS-13. You are going to find Middle Eastern. You are going to find everything. And guess what. We're not allowing them in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Or you won't, but the damage is done. So once again, there are no facts to back that claim.

Let's talk about what this strategy is. We want to bring in our stellar panel. We have "Time" magazine editor-at-large and president of the Eurasia Group Ian Bremmer, former Clinton White House press secretary and CNN political commentator Joe Lockhart, and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger. Great to have all of you. Ian, why is the president resorting to making up false claims? Why can't he run on his accomplishments? I thought the economy was doing so well.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: The economy is doing well, and he has run on that accomplishment. But he exaggerates continually. That was obviously true when he ran for president, going after Mexicans coming to rape and criminalize in the U.S. That was a line he used an awful lot. He talked about building the wall a lot. It worked well with his base. He's going back to it again. Why is he bringing up transgender suddenly as an issue? Because he understands that's something that if the mainstream press talks about it and makes it a big issue, it is probably going to help him on balance with his base. So I understand the politics behind it. It is a nasty business, but I suspect that a lot of people are advising that this is a good way for him to run into the midterm.

BERMAN: It's working, Gloria. I speak to Republicans who have never felt better about their chances in these midterms. It is simply working.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I'm old enough to remember 2016, and this is 2016 all over again. And Republicans are feeling good because if you start with Kavanaugh and then you -- something switched after Brett Kavanaugh, and the president is now on the campaign trail rallying up the base, getting them up to vote. And you see in the poll numbers that suddenly Republican voters are almost as energized as Democrats. Not quite, but almost as energized as Democrats, whereas before this, before this fear mongering, before this, they were not. They were like, OK, I'm going to sit at home. And what Trump is doing is getting them out to vote by telling them if you don't, you should be very, very scared.

CAMEROTA: Maybe I'm not old enough to remember 2016, Joe, because I think things have gotten more brazen and more intense. I vaguely remember 2016, but I think in the past week, the succession, the rapid fire, lies made up out of whole cloth, they seem more unhinged than even in 2016.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They are. And I think they are more serious because in 2016 he was a candidate. He's now the president of the United States, the so-called leader of the free world. I think that all of this ratcheted up the importance of this election. We have a question for our country now, does truth matter? It may not. But that's a huge step towards an authoritarian government. I think it's a big question for the media. And I understand the wrestling with it, but the truth doesn't catch up to the lie.

CAMEROTA: But what do you want us to do?

LOCKHART: I don't have the answer. I'm just saying it is a test. And if Republicans sweep to victory, then I think there will have to be some examination.

CAMEROTA: And we fact check every morning here. We fact check every morning, but I'm not sure that his base is watching us every morning.

LOCKHART: And people hear what they want to hear. That's why it is so important.

But I think the biggest thing is, are we a country that's afraid? Are we driven by fear and anxiety, or are we a country that's proud and confident? We'll know.

BREMMER: I think the fact checking can be overdone. There is a difference between when he is directionally correct and exaggerating. For example, everybody knows that Saudi Arabia, if you selling a lot of weapons that's going to create jobs. Is he exaggerating about those jobs to change the numbers? Yes. Would I have my hair blown off over that? No, I don't think anyone really takes him literally. They take him seriously.

[08:05:00] On the other hand, if he's directionally incorrect and he's making something up that is politically dangerous --

CAMEROTA: Like the new tax plan, for instance, in the next 10 days.

BREMMER: For example, that strikes me as something that's worth coverage. So that would be one rule of thumb. But it's really hard because he's ripping up the play book. He's doing things that make it much harder for traditional media to cover him as a candidate or now as the president than it would with anyone else.

BORGER: What he does is he provides bright, shiny objects for the media to go after. Whether it's the tax cut. And you say, wait a minute. You have 10 days. We haven't seen a proposal. This is ludicrous. This is not going to happen. He just pulls it out of his hat, and then you have the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee going, oh, yes, we're kind of interested in it. We've got a plan. Really? Nobody is there. Nobody is home in the Congress.

And he throws these things out there as red meat, and he knows full well this isn't going to happen. But he's not talking to us. He's talking to other people. And he -- because he knows we're going to fact check it, and he knows we're going to run after him. And he wants to create, and he's been very successful at it, this kind of wall -- I hate to use the term of wall -- between the media and the country. And, so, we have become the bad guys because we are saying, no, no, no, no, that can't happen.

CAMEROTA: That's right, you end up sounding anti-Trump when in fact we are supposed to be watchdogs of government. That is what we're tasked with.

BORGER: But then it becomes all negative. So it becomes all negative because we keep saying this is not true, and that is not true, and that is not true. And so when you do that enough, it redounds us and not to Donald Trump. Obviously, you hate to see this happening because the press is important and the presidency is important.

BERMAN: Look, you know, this is the B-3 bomber. I keep making this reference from "Wag the Dog," a movie I'm sure you remember, Joe Lockhart. What about the B-3 bomber. There is no B-3 bomber. Then why are you asking about it? It's not the truth that matters. It's the show here that matters. And you said we'll find out. We'll find out if truth matters in this election. I'm not so sure you are going to like the answer.

LOCKHART: I'm not so sure I will either, and that's why I think it's so important. I think going back to the polling question. I'll play the role of partisan here. I think all of this stuff about a Republican surge is the best thing that could happen to the Democrats because I think there was a sense creeping in that, oh, we've got this. We've got this. And for those of us that are old enough to remember 2016, we know that feeling, we've got this, and people stay home.

I think Trump, we're sort of glorifying him a little bit politically for how clever he is. He has had historically low levels for job approval. Yes, there was one poll out this week that had him at 47, but he is averaging around 43 with an economy that's growing with unemployment down. He is not performing well. And for every -- I believe, that for every person that he turns out, he may turn out 1.2 people to vote against him, but we'll find out.

BERMAN: Every trend line is pointing up. He may not be 47, which is the "Wall Street Journal" number, but all the polls have his approve ratings --

LOCKHART: Yes, and there is the old dead cat bounce. There was no place to go down. He is historically at the bottom.

BREMMER: But why is he doing it? One reason he's leaning into these issues is because they are concerned, the Republicans, that they are going to take a drubbing in the House. But at the same time, Trump continues to throw these lines out that, if I lose, it's not me. It's not on me. It's on the others. And it's hard to balance both of those things because, clearly, if the Republicans do take a big hit, Trump is not going to own a part of it. And so I think it is tricky for the Republicans to do really well as a party and unified force underneath Trump in this midterm.

CAMEROTA: Just to push back for one second on you, Ian, about the numbers and whether or not he's directionally correct. I just want to play the evolution, because it shows in the space of like 72 hours on the Saudi jobs numbers of what the president is trying to pass off to voters as the truth. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're talking about over 40,000 jobs.

It is 450,000 jobs.

It's 500,000 jobs.

It's 600,000 jobs, maybe more than that.

We're talking about over a million jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The first one he had a piece of cardboard, so maybe that one was most believable.

BREMMER: Did he not say full-time jobs? Could be 500,000 part-time jobs.

CAMEROTA: Maybe they are actually Saudi jobs. Maybe they're not American jobs.

LOCKHART: Just for the record, there is only 330,000 jobs in the direct defense agency in the country total. So he's just making it up.

CAMEROTA: This is the point, Ian. You're like, well, people have gotten used to not taking him seriously. I just wonder about the truth issue. Does that have any effect on the voters, the fact they can't trust whatever number or anything the president is saying this week?

BREMMER: I think for people who don't like Trump it absolutely does. And I think for people do that do, I think we've understood that he's made up -- he was directionally correct about being a billionaire, but he actually said --

[08:10:06] BORGER: He wasn't directionally correct.

BREMMER: How well he was -- he testified to this on how he was feeling on a given day. I don't think that anyone that thinks about Trump actually thinks that what we're really about is whether he gets numbers right. That's not what reality TV, bankruptcies, and casinos. I get you, but the level of truth in advertising, there is just an advertising concept to everything Trump does.

All I'm saying is that I think that when you're going after in the morning the fact checks, I think fact checks that are focusing on, I got you on this number, I got you on this number, is, as Gloria suggested, probably not one you are going to obviously win. But when it is an obvious, like no, no, no, this is a totally made-up policy or you have got people saying something that's completely different, then that's probably --

BORGER: There is Donald Trump being a real estate guy. There's a term called puffing in real estate, which I learned about covering Donald Trump, which is that realtors -- people say, oh, yes, we have this apartment building full. Except there is nobody in it, which "Pro Publica" just did a piece on that about the Trump family and how they sold their apartments, by puffing, by saying, we got Princess Diana is coming into Trump Tower, or we've got this one sold or that one sold. It's 100 percent, and it wasn't. So Donald Trump, the real estate guy in him is like, yes, it's going to cost a million jobs. Well, it's going to cost 500,000. This is what he does. This is what he's done his whole life. BERMAN: So this is going to drive you crazy, Joe Lockhart, because

what Gloria and Ian are saying is that he's being graded on a curve because he is a real estate guy. He's being graded on his own curve, the Trump curve, by supporters and by the media.

LOCKHART: To some extent, yes.

BERMAN: So is there any way you could fight that? If there is no repercussion, if he is not held to the same standard as other politicians, how do you battle that?

LOCKHART: There's one simply way. You get out and vote. And again, I come back to any Democrat out there, any independent, anyone who thinks we should expect more out of a president than being a real estate puffer, that we should expect that you should tell the truth and that all of this stuff matters, well, you have a chance to vote and to make a difference. Otherwise, we are heading down a very serious path of changing the way our government works.

BREMMER: I just want to say that I think the reason that Trump won is not so much because he was puffing or because he wasn't, but because those that had the facts on their side were seen as illegitimate. In the Brexit referendum, all the facts were on the fact that this Brexit was going to be bad for the U.K., right? And they brought out the scientists and they brought out the professors and they brought out people that had very good PowerPoint and all of the facts. And yet the people that voted in favor of Brexit basically said, yes, you and your fancy facts and education, I know you are not going to make things better for me.

And so there is a higher truth here. And that higher truth is the same truth that read the "National Enquirer" and the rest. And I think Trump is appealing to that, a lot of people that feel like for all of the facts of the mainstream media and of the establishment, their lives haven't gotten better. And I think until you credibly have some people, candidates in the midterm elections or presidential candidates that are able to fight that than trying to just get Trump on the facts is going to have the same outcome that the Brexit referendum did in the U.K.

BORGER: Why do you think Trump is talking about middle-class tax cuts now?

CAMEROTA: Because it feels good.

BORGER: That's right.

LOCKHART: And it is an admission that the first tax cut wasn't for them.

CAMEROTA: That requires a deeper level of analysis.

BORGER: If you listen to Republicans like I do, they're saying, I wish you were out there actually talking about the tax cut that we passed and talking about how it is affecting the economy.

CAMEROTA: That it is not working for some.

BORGER: But he would say, he would argue, it is working for the economy, the GDP is great.

CAMEROTA: Then he should talk about it.

BORGER: But he isn't. I was in Missoula with him last week, Missoula, Montana. And instead, Gianforte was on the stage with him, the Congressman, and he talked about how great it was that Gianforte had body slammed a journalist to applause, because he knew his audience and Gianforte was right there. And so he's in Texas and he's talking about the caravan and immigration. And he knows his audience. He's very good at understanding the people that he's got to get out to vote.

BERMAN: That's a great tease. We're going to have you back later in the show to talk about Montana and your time in Missoula. Gloria, Joe, guys, that was awesome. Will you come back and talk about this again? I feel like I learned hours worth of information in nearly 14 minutes. So thank you.

CAMEROTA: Like maybe tomorrow.

BERMAN: Maybe tomorrow, yes.

So President Trump, we have been listening to how he's dealing with the facts, dealing with the world now. What will Democrats do? We're going to speak to an important member of the Democratic Party. A key U.S. senator joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, HOST, NEW DAY: So President Trump, if you've been listening to what he's saying, he is talking about thousands of migrants in Mexico headed to the United States. One of the supporters frames it this way. He says, one party wants to let them in, the other party wants to keep them out.

Joining me now is Democratic Senator Ben Cardin from Maryland. Senator, thank you very much for being with us. Look, the president has made this a political issue, the thousands of people in Mexico part of this so-called caravan. What's the Democratic policy on this? What do you want to see happen with these thousands of people?

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D) MARYLAND: Well, john, first of all, it is going to be with you. America's strength is in our values and we've been a leader nationally in standing up for people - internationally for standing up for people who have been at risk.

The people of Central America, many are at risk. If they qualify for asylum, we believe there should be a process in which that case could be heard in a fair manner, protecting the individuals.

We have invested a great deal in Central America to try to improve the living conditions and the safety for the people in that region. I have been there. I know how gang violence can disrupt the family safety and the economic opportunities are limited. So it is in our interest to invest in stabilizing Central America. We shouldn't be threatening to cutoff the funds.

But the people that are in this caravan, many are in desperate situations. As a humanitarian need, the United States should be out there to try to help. It doesn't necessarily mean that they can come and live in America, but we certainly should not be using the language the President is in regards to the caravan.

[08:20:09]

BERMAN: So one of his supporters, Barry Bennett who worked on his campaign says one party wants to let them in - he means the Democrats and one party wants to keep him out, the Republicans. Is he right?

CARDIN: No, he's not at all. In fact, we've had bipartisan support for comprehensive immigration reform that will give us a much more orderly way for people coming to America that would give hope for those who are already in our country living in the shadows, including the Dreamers and including those on TPS status. That's been bipartisan.

We think we should have a rational immigration policy for this country and our current system isn't working well. But when people are desperate, they show up in our border. They should have a receptive audience from the United States to try to deal with their needs. It doesn't necessarily mean that they can come and live in America, but it does mean we have a process to deal with people who are at risk.

BERMAN: "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" -- their headlines today is saying the President is trying to scare, people scare voters two weeks before the election. My question to you, are you worried it's working?

CARDIN: Well, you know, President Trump clearly appeals to some of the worst fears in America. Some of the worst behaviors. So, yes, I am concerned that it does get a group of people with nationalist sentiments, which is really not what America stands for. The president is not telling the truth when he talks about the people that are in the caravan. He has misrepresented the immigrant community here in America as far as their violations of laws.

So he has made a case by misstating the facts in order to get Americans to believe in a nationalist strategy rather than be more universal in dealing with humanitarian needs.

BERMAN: So you just called the President a nationalist. Do you know who else called him a nationalist? Donald J. Trump.

CARDIN: He did himself.

BERMAN: That's right, at the rally last night. He said, "I'm a nationalist." So what's wrong with that?

CARDIN: There is nothing wrong for rooting for America. I root for America. I believe in our country. But the question is do you believe America is of a certain type of person and that the diversity issues are something that is foreign to our country. I don't. I believe diversity is our strength. I am a product of immigrant families. My grandparents came to this country. Most Americans have come to this country as immigrants. So we are a diverse nation and that's our strength.

And when the President refers to nationalism, it provokes an anti- immigrant, an anti-majority view that this nation is of a certain demographic rather than being the diverse nation we are.

BERMAN: You are suggesting there is some kind of dog whistle there?

CARDIN: It is. It is. It applies - it does provoke hate activities. It does provoke discrimination. We have seen a rise in crimes in America based upon race, based upon religion -- all of that is provoked by the language we use when we say America needs to be of a certain demographic.

BERMAN: Two weeks exactly now until the midterm elections. You look at a lot of the polls. His approval rating - the President's approval rating is on the rise universally in almost every poll; not always the same amount, but headed up. Are things turning in the wrong direction for Democrats and what is the argument that you think Democrats should make in the next two weeks?

CARDIN: Well, we'll find out in two weeks. No, I think Americans recognize that it's important to have an independent Congress that acts as a check and balance with the President. They recognize the midterms as an opportunity to provide that check and balance to our system. I'm very optimistic that the blue wave will bring about a change in Congress and give a greater voice to an independent Congress.

BERMAN: How do you explain the rise in the President's approval rating?

CARDIN: Well, you know, the President's approval ratings have consistently been below 50%. He was elected without the popular vote of this country. I think, quite frankly that the President's views, the way he operates most Americans disagree with. I could tell you as I go Maryland, I go around this country, I seen an energy level that has been motivated by the President to try to do something about the way that he acts. So I do believe you're going to see a blue wave.

BERMAN: Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, thanks so much for being with us. Two weeks to go. Appreciate it, sir.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, HOST, NEW DAY: Okay, let's zero in on one state because it is more than just a Senate seat at stake in Montana; for President Trump, it is personal. We'll tell you about it next.

[08:25:00]

CAMEROTA: President Trump has made three trips to Montana since July. The Senate race there seems to have become personal for him because the president blames the incumbent there, Democrat, Jon Tester for derailing his pick to head the VA. CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger explains.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

GLORIA BORGER, CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: Donald Trump jetted into big sky country and he was on the hunt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Jon Tester led the Democrat mob in the effort to destroy the reputation of a great man, Admiral Ronny Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: Tester opposed the President's favorite, the White House doctor to run the Veteran's Administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON TESTER, US SENATOR, MONTANA, DEMOCRAT: This doctor has a problem because he hands out prescriptions like candy. In fact, in the White House, they call him the candy man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: Jackson withdrew. Tester is running for reelection and Trump has tightly embraced his opponent, Matt Rosendale and Rosendale hugs him back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT ROSENDALE, CURRENT AUDITOR FOR THE STATE OF MONTANA: I will stand in strong support of President Trump because the work that he is doing really is making America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: The race is up for grabs because Montanans pride themselves on their voting independence.

[08:30:15]