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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Erdogan Rejects Saudi Account of Khashoggi's Death; Saudi King Expresses Condolences to Journalist's Family; Dow Tumbles Over Disappointing Earnings; Caravan Of 7000+ Migrants Slowly Making Trip Towards United States; Trump Stoking Fears About Migrants and Middle Easterners; Next Trump-Putin Summit Could Be Next Month In Paris; Erdogan: Khashoggi Suspects Should Be Tried In Turkey; China Opens World's Longest Sea Bridge; U.S. Mega Millions Jackpot Soars To $1.6 Billion. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 23, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London. I'm Hannah Vaughn Jones. A ferocious murder.
That's how Turkey's President describing the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. We have the latest from Ankara and Riyadh. Speaking of Riyadh, the Davos
in the Desert business forum is underway. Last year it was a who's who, this year it is a question of who is there?
Also, tonight still trudging north, thousands of migrants becoming a U.S. midterm seeking refuge and becoming now a U.S. midterm election issue.
But first, to our top story, a savage, meticulously planned murder, that's what Turkey's President called the killing of a Saudi journalist speaking
out in detail for the first time about the death of Jamal Khashoggi and Erdogan rejected claims of dying in a brawl and saying a hit squad sent to
the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to kill him. He says everyone involved should be put on trial in Turkey and demanding to know what happened to the
body and who ordered the hit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY, through translator: Trying to blame a few members of the intelligence and security teams will not satisfy
us or the international community. It will be satisfactory only when everyone who's responsible for this is penalized appropriately. I don't
doubt the sincerity of the king. At the same time, it is very important for the inquiry to be carried out by an impartial team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Meantime, a powerful moment in Saudi Arabia. Khashoggi's son who's reportedly barred from leaving the kingdom stared into the eyes of the
crown prince as they shook hands today. A Saudi news agency said he and the king met with the relatives to express their, quote, sincere
condolences. We are live in the two countries at the heart of the international crisis tonight. Ben Wedeman in Turkey. Sam Kiley from
Riyadh from Saudi Arabia.
Ben, to you, first. Let's talk about President Erdogan's speech earlier. He had harsh words for the Saudis. He handed out the time line and no
smoking gun which we were expecting.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The President had promised the naked truth but what we saw was a truth somewhat unclothed
but certainly not naked. He did lay out a timeline, a detailed day by day, blow by blow, timeline of what happened starting with the 28th of September
when Jamal Khashoggi went in to the consulate first time and told to come back later.
According to the account of the President, that is when the entire hit sort to speak was set in motion. But what was missing in the narrative is what
exactly happened after 1:14 p.m. on the 2nd of October when Mr. Khashoggi entered the consulate never to be seen again because we have been hearing
well over two weeks from unnamed official Turkish sources when he went into the consulate very soon afterwards he was tortured, he was murdered and he
And that was the sort of level of detail many people were expecting to hear. But didn't. He did have words of deference for Saudi King Salman
which is significant but he also said he wanted to trace this event, find out who ordered the killing. He didn't mention Crown Prince Mohammed Bin
Salman but it was very clear between the lines he believes that those responsible are not security or intelligence officials. That it goes much,
much higher than that. Hannah?
JONES: Let's go to Sam Kiley then in Riyadh. In particular, that point of ben making that Erdogan did mention by name the king, King Salman, but did
not mention by name Mohammed Bin Salman.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there hasn't been an official Saudi reaction. The patent here, Hannah, is to react with
something perhaps to distract. So that is when we saw this -- these photographs of the meeting between the king, his son and Mr. Khashoggi's
son and another male relative.
[14:05:00] Quite a chilling image I think. The bereaved son staring very hard into the face of his crown prince. What one could only guess what
emotions were running through his head at that time. And this whole nation, Hannah, is in a state of torment.
I was talking earlier on to a senior political analyst who was saying that it's getting increasingly difficult to accept that there wasn't some kind
of an order from the top that the Saudi version of events is just not holding water. But equally, there is a deep concern the reforms seen here
in Saudi Arabia, notably the e emasculation of the police, the hardline religious loaders, many of whom locked up much to -- which is inconsistent
with the belief in free speech and consistent if you're a liberal here with the sort of effort to change Saudi Arabia, that those reforms could be lost
if the crown prince's position would be weakened so it's a very conflicting and conflicted place at the moment, Saudi Arabia. And the source's
statements coming out of the Turkish President, of course, adding deliberately to that confliction.
JONES: Sam, I want to go back to those images of meeting the relatives, the son in particular. Reports that the son is confined to the kingdom,
not allowed to leave. Do you have any reporting whatsoever as to whether he was under any duress for this particular photo opportunity?
KILEY: No. We don't. We have no understanding of that and, frankly, I don't think if you're summoned in Saudi Arabia to meet the crown prince you
would feel under duress. You would simply answer that invitation with some alacrity. This is a monarchy and you would normally attend and unusual,
indeed, for somebody not to respond to that sort of an invitation, Hannah.
JONES: Sam, thanks very much, indeed. Ben, back to you for us in Turkey. While, of coursing all of the geopolitical talking going on what happened
to Jamal Khashoggi, there's investigations from the Turkish and Saudi side ongoing in Turkey right now and more developments I understand today as to
this Saudi consulate car and what they may have found there.
WEDEMAN: Yes. That's the drama in the car park in Istanbul where there's a mob of journalists, there was a mob of journalists waiting outside as
forensic investigators and a representative of the Saudi government was in there as they actually entered this diplomatic vehicle, this vehicle with
green diplomatic plates to see what was inside. So, we're really getting down to the minutia of the investigation and it's important to step back a
bit from the trees and look at the forest.
In terms of the actual mechanics, the chronology of this crime, this murder, it's fairly clear what happened. With the exception, of course,
what happened when Jamal Khashoggi went in to the consulate at 1:14 p.m. on the 2nd of October. But I think the Turks are putting together all the
pieces and this intense focus on the car in the car park is just one more page in a very long book which the Turks are really pursuing doggedly.
JONES: All right. Ben Wedeman reporting for us from Ankara, thank you.
Now meanwhile, the murder of Jamal Khashoggi has overshadowed Saudi Arabia's flagship investment conference. Mohammed Bin Salman is hoping to
lure big business to his kingdom and many CEOs and companies dropped out. He's seen here at the conference with Jordan's King Abdullah on the left-
hand side and uncertainty as to whether the crown prince would even attend his own event given the international pressure. John Defterios was live on
air when the crown prince appeared. Take a look.
[14:10:00] JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: To my left here, the crown prince is touring with King Abdullah and beginning to exit right
now. King Abdullah of Jordan gave a short presentation. We'll take a pan of the shot.
It was the first public appearance of the crown prince at this event. Many didn't think he would show up because of what was transpiring in Turkey.
King Abdullah of Jordan gave a short presentation. We'll take a pan of the shot. It was the first public appearance of the crown prince at this
event. Many didn't think he would show up because of what was transpiring in Turkey. But again, King Abdullah thought it was important to show the
backing of the Middle East.
The shaikh of the Dubai doing the same and the phones getting shots with Mohammed bin Salman, as well. There is a very negative view of Saudi Inc.,
if you will. What is taking place in the royal family. But when it comes to the presence here at the Saudi investment summit, Mohammed bin Salman is
coming out and kind of showing force and kind of thanking people for making the presence known here in Riyadh for the Davos in the Desert. That's King
Abdullah in front of me here and see behind suits and the cameras, you can see Mohammed bin Salman, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: John joins me now live from Riyadh with the latest on the conference. Good to see you and well done for that extraordinary bit of
broadcasting with the prince in the background. He's been there at the conference and no formal address and seemed despite the pressure relatively
DEFTERIOS: I think so, Hannah, considering the circumstances. He was almost steadfast in his stubbornness wanting this future business
investment to proceed against all odds. He had 30 A-listers drop out in the last week. Big investors, big player here in Saudi Arabia, decided not
to come in and wanted to continue with this.
He took the leverage as I was suggesting in that live coverage there with King Abdullah of Jordan. He also had the prime minister of the UAE, the
ruler of Dubai, come in with a force of about 300 different people to say we support you. That is period of transition. We don't know the end of
the investigation but we're not going to leave you exposed to the west on your own. I think that was the absolute key message.
They had about a quarter less people attending the future investment initiative, Hannah, and at least 60 speakers that were supposed to be
coming that didn't make it, as well. So that moment that was captured was an injection of support for the crown prince and his second journey here on
this investment summit.
JONES: John, we have been talking for a couple of days or weeks probably now about who is going the show up, who isn't going to show up. The U.S.
Treasury Secretary Mnuchin said he wasn't going to be there and he is also kind of there. Explain.
DEFTERIOS: Well, let's take Steven Mnuchin, the U.S. treasury secretary and then others. Tricky game by Mnuchin himself because last Thursday he
was suggesting that the White House after meeting with Donald Trump and Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State, that he wasn't going to come to
Riyadh, lo and behold, Monday evening had a meeting with Mohammed Bin Salman under the guise of terror financing and discussion that they were
having here with Saudi Arabia.
One on one saying he wanted to remain engaged. All the high -bankers from Wall Street and the city of London, HSBC, JPMorgan chase, the CEOs weren't
here but the underlings were here and the only one absolutely transparent we have to say is a very big figure of total. $8 billion deal on the table
for to tall. A big presence and said why wouldn't I be here, John? I have to be here.
To support the deals that I have with Saudi Aramco and the people not exiting the scene. That says a lot because of the position by France,
Germany and the U.K., condemnation against Saudi Arabia and this investigation but total staying steadfast in attendance.
JONES: John, great to hear from you. Thank you for staying across the conference today. Day one today. John, thanks.
Now a rough day for Wall Street as U.S. markets slide sharply, driving the sell-off, bleak growth outlook by key companies. The Dow Jones industrial
average down more than 500 points in early trading. It is now regained some of those losses. You can see at the moment hovering about 180 points
below. Less than two hours, of course, until the U.S. markets close so Clare Sebastian joining us from New York with the latest on this. What
triggered the selling earlier on in the day at least?
[14:15:00] CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Hanna, the key to understand the market and, of course, we are off the lows of the session,
is that investors are asking themselves the question, is this as good as it gets? Both in terms of global growth.
Obviously, we know the first half of the year driven by strong growth in the U.S. and the tax cut and juiced some blockbuster corporate earnings and
today suggesting things might be dropping off. Caterpillar and 3M, both reported not so much earnings that disappointed but guidance. Investors
are worrying about things like slowing global growth, like the trade war.
Caterpillar said it's seeing rising costs due to tariffs and would be able to offset them and revived the fears that earnings peaking and that's
spread throughout most of the market, Hannah.
JONES: All right. Clare Sebastian, stay across it for us. I'm sure you will until the trading day closes. Thank you very much, indeed. Claire's
in New York for us.
Still to come, thousands of central America migrants walking for weeks in a bid for a better life in the U.S. they face danger on the roads and now
insults from the U.S. President. We'll have a live report coming up.
And then, the politics of fear. We'll see how U.S. President Donald Trump is using the caravan controversy to rally Republican votes.
JONES: Migrants traveling through Mexico taking a break for the day. Organizers say they're mourning a 25-year-old that died and Monday. They
plan to assume the journey to the United States on Wednesday. That journey could take weeks. More than 7,000 migrants are fleeing violence and
poverty in central America hoping to eventually get to a better life.
U.S. President Donald Trump has threatened military action to stop them from getting into the country. And the President claims there are, quote,
unknown middle easterners mixed into the migrant group without providing evidence for that. CNN's Bill Weir joins us now live. You have been
speaking to so many of these people in this caravan. The President is very much politicizing their cause at the moment. Do people there care? Are
they worried about that or even aware of it?
BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're certainly aware of it and they certainly care about it. I point out to all I talk to, you know you're
breaking the law? You know what awaits you? Possible family separation? Possible troops.
To a person they'll say, well, that is a better option for me than staying at home. As you mentioned, they're paused here and they'll move north and
as, you know, the words of the President seem to invoke a scene of the 7,000 or maybe more storming the gates of the U.S. border like a scene out
of "Game of Thrones" or something but they'll disperse getting to Mexico City.
[14:20:00] Many will stay in Mexico and over 1,000 applied for asylum here but to give you a sense of the journey, we spent time yesterday on the
caravan road where despite the politics in richer countries, most people keep their head down and walk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: Another day on the caravan road. Another 25 hard miles. And walk. Another day on the caravan road. Another 25 hard miles. Under a merciless
Mexican sun. Another meal out of the back of a kind stranger's trunk. And for the lucky ones, another ride in a kind stranger's truck. Packed so
tight the tires nearly pop.
On Monday, another man fell to his death on a ride like this. The second confirmed fatality but as pregnant women wilt in the heat many worry they
won't be the last.
And yet, as thousands of families try to keep the faith, while a full-blown humanitarian crisis moves north, there came another round of insults and
threats from the President of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: President Trump thinks that you're an invading band of criminals. Possibly terrorists. And is threatening to use soldiers to keep you out or
separate families. What would you say to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, through translator: We are an honorable people. We are workers. Would he call kids terrorists? A group of women who need help?
We're asking for his support but, of course, we know he has no conscience. He is crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: Polo is a volunteer with an organization of Pueblo Sin Fronteras, Towns Without Borders, formed to help protect migrants and a target of
conspiracy theories that refuse to believe that the caravan fueled only by desperation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: There are some who believe that you're being organized for political reasons or being paid to do this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, through translator: There's a lot of people so there could be some with bad intentions but if you look around there's mothers
with young kids. Why would they want to come here if they weren't so desperate?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: President Trump also tweeted that the U.S. will be cutting off or substantially reducing the foreign aid given to Guatemala, Honduras and El
Salvador, the three countries scheduled to receive less than $200 million next year and for comparison, country like Egypt gets about six times that
amount. But immigration reformers say every little bit helps for these really poor countries and cutting them off only makes this problem that
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: So how far will you go today? Jose is a taxi driver from Honduras where things were so bad he couldn't afford gasoline to fill his cab and
he's heard of the President's tweets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's using the pictures of the big caravan and saying that's a mob of criminals. And there's even middle eastern possible
terrorists in there. I don't understand why he's saying that, he says. We're not terrorists. Our country is very violent but the people are poor
people. Do you have children? That's what hurts me the most is I have three kids and I had to leave them behind because there's no job.
WEIR: When do you think you'll see them again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know, he says, it's up to god. It's hard,
WEIR: Yes. Jose, it's OK. Gracias. Gracias.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEIR: And so, for a 12th day they walk. Through jungles and towards deserts with little more than faith and hope and each other. And just for
some timing and distance perspectives, two weeks from today, the caravan will be south of Mexico City. The closest point from there is Brownsville,
Texas, which is an eight-day walk. But most will take a much longer but safer path on train to the pacific coast over there by Tijuana. The San
Diego border. There, as well. They'll disperse as they go. They're saying. But no telling what will happen between now and then. The road is
full of so many perils. Hannah?
[14:25:00] JONES: Bill Weir live for us there in Mexico with this caravan making the way north. Thank you so much, bill, for your reporting on this.
Staying with this theme, may be no coincidence that Donald Trump is ramping up fears about the caravan two weeks before the crucial midterm elections
in the U.S. sources tell CNN aides advising him to focus on it believing the message is popular with Republican voters. We have heard that Mr.
Trump isn't stopping there making unfounded accusations that middle easterners are also among the crowds of people and implicit slur that
suggests all Middle Easterners are a dangerous threat. The vice President came to Mr. Trump's defense today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: It's inconceivable there are not people of Middle Eastern descent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people advancing
towards our border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, is stoking fear of outsiders a winning strategy for the Republicans? What do American voters really care about as they go into the
midterms? Let's bring in White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins across this for us. Donald Trump thinks this is a winning point and the rest of
the administration. What kind of impact, though, does it have on turnout and tendency coming to people at the ballot box?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's the question. We are seeing President Trump hit the road multiple times a week for the last
several weeks and going to continue that for two weeks. And he is coming with this message, this message you are hearing about the caravan pretty
much exactly what the President tweeted yesterday, attempting the stoke the fears in voters and relay the message if you have liked Democrats this fall
which, of course, which is largely the prediction here in Washington that Democrats are going do take back the House.
President Trump is saying, if you elect those Democrats then you are essentially saying you want open borders and people of the caravan of 7,000
to be able to come into the country. Now, whether or not that's an effective messaging we'll know in about two weeks or so. Republicans were
expecting low turnout and trying to turn that into some kind of messaging tactic.
But also, what is the President saying about this caravan and whether or not it's true? Because yesterday he tweeted that unknown middle easterners
were part of this caravan and you saw Mike Pence the vice President prying to put a nice spin on it saying essentially it's inconceivable to think
that someone in the group isn't of Middle Eastern descent and not what President Trump was saying and creating a concern of people in the caravan
to come into the country and then the problems begin from there.
Sarah Sanders took it a step further than President Trump yesterday and said is there evidence of Middle Easterners in the caravan and said
absolutely and didn't present any evidence and then she said that ten people known or suspected of terrorism tried to come into the country every
day. Of course, that goes against what a counterterrorism official told CNN saying there's no evidence that ISIS or any other terrorist groups
trying to come into the U.S. through the U.S. southern border and a lot of misinformation out of the administration about the caravan and trying to
use it to their advantage to get voters to be concerned and not vote for Democrats.
JONES: You mentioned earlier, Kaitlan, about the -- at the moment it looks like the Democrats are predicted to take back the House. What happens with
the Senate? For our international viewers, who's on course to win what as things stand?
COLLINS: The Republicans control both the House and the Senate. When the President complains about the immigration laws, reporters remind him, it is
your own party that's in charge here, in control of the laws but the President says he doesn't believe it's a big enough majority and widely
believed by people, experts on capitol hill the Democrats will take back the House and that's really the question.
But largely, the assumption even from people inside the White House is that Democrats will win the House. But in recent weeks we have seen Republicans
feel confident to hang on to that very slim majority they have in the Senate. So essentially, what that would lead to is the House would have a
lot of ways to oversight, investigate the White House. But any kind of bills or proposals they have would be stopped dead in their tracks by the
time they made it to the Senate if it's still Republican controlled.
JONES: What about the other issues getting people riled up at the moment ahead of the midterms? We saw a bruising confirmation process for the
latest Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. The Mueller investigation, Russian interference ongoing, of course. People question whether the taxes
go up or down. What's the main, main vote winner?
[14:30:00] COLLINS: Well, the White House is trying to make the cava van the last-minute messaging for Republicans but they also believed that Brett
Kavanaugh confirmation fight is going to help energize the voters, bring them out to the polls and Democrats essentially running on the anti-Trump
party. That's the platform they have been running on essentially leveling their opponents as people who suck up to Trump or sycophants of the
President. Not health care and running on being the anti-Trump group.
JONES: Interesting. One to watch, a couple of weeks to go.
COLLINS: Two weeks.
JONES: Thank you, Kaitlan.
Still to come on the program tonight, Turkey's President promised the quote naked truth speaking about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and we didn't get
the full details of Erdogan. We'll discuss what was and what wasn't revealed next. And are you ready for Trump/Putin part two?
[14:30:00] The leaders of the U.S. and Russia are talking openly about another summit and it could be only weeks away. The story on that when we
JONES: Welcome back. Now, the last time Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin got together and made worldwide headlines, and now, it looks like the two
leaders are ready for another summit and it could be only weeks away.
The Russian president met with U.S. national security adviser, John Bolton, a few hours ago and they came out of those talks with an agreement for
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: President Putin said in the opening of the meeting today when the press was there that his words now it
would be useful to continue a direct dialogue with the president of the United States, primarily on the fields of international events that will
take place in the near future, for example, in Paris.
Of course, if the American side is interested in these contacts, President Putin said and I said, yes, in fact, that President Trump would be -- would
look forward to meeting with him in Paris.
Let's get more on this now from CNN's Fred Pleitgen who's live for us in Moscow. Fred, the last summit was pretty controversial and yet it seems
they're both up for round two.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, it certainly does and certainly the Russians are very much seem to be up for
it. The Russians certainly saying that they are very much up for another summit, Hannah.
Right now, what they're looking at apparently is November 11. They're in Paris during the celebrations of 100 years of Armistice Day. So both sides
say that they want to make this happen. It doesn't seem as though it's finalized yet, but it certainly seem as though that is the date that both
sides are aiming for.
And it's always very interesting to see John Bolton here with these meetings that he had in Moscow, obviously coming at an extremely
controversial time between the United States and Russia just a few days ahead of the midterm elections in the United States. And then also of
course with the U.S. saying that it wants to get out of the INF treaty. All of that, of course, topics, as well.
There was a bit of a tussle actually, between President Putin and the national security adviser at the beginning where Vladimir Putin seemed to
take a swipe at the United States and then the National Security Adviser had some words for Putin as well. They sort of laughed it off but it did
seem as though that might have been a bit of a tense situation.
One of the things that's still hanging up there though, obviously, is that whole complex is election meddling. And that's one of the things that John
Bolton did say that he very strongly talked about and he said to get a clear message for the Russians and that was not to meddle in the U.S.
elections. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLTON: What's the meddling did it create was distrust and animosity within the United States and particularly made it almost impossible for two
years for the United States and Russia to make progress diplomatically. So that's a huge loss to both countries but particularly to Russia. So it's a
lesson, I think, don't mess with American elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:35:14] PLEITGEN: So as you can see, there is still some -- there's still a lot of tension in the relations between these two countries.
Certainly we could see that over the past two days. The national security adviser has been here in Moscow obviously meeting with the Russian foreign
minister, meeting with Russia's national security adviser today also with the Russian defense minister and then finally with Vladimir Putin.
But certainly, as we've seen now, they seem to want to continue these talks on very high levels. And both sides at least say they are still aiming to
try and improve the relations between the U.S. and Russia, Hannah.
JONES: Yes. And, Fred, what about this nuclear treaty that just a couple of days ago President Trump himself was saying that's it, the U.S. is going
to withdraw from it and now it seems that it's kind of back on the table.
PLEITGEN: Well, yes. I'm not sure that it really is. It really is a very good question and you were sitting in that press conference that John
Bolton gave just less than an hour ago and there was the question, is there still a way to salvage this treaty? And he seemed to be saying that there
was not going to be a way to salvage the treaty in its current form.
He said that President Trump has been absolutely clear in his messaging since Saturday that he wants to get out of the treaty and John Bolton also
said on the one hand, of course, the U.S. does blame and accuse Russia of violating the treaty.
But it certainly seems to be crystalizing more and more that the main reason why the United States wants to get out of the Intermediate-Range
Nuclear Forces Agreement is because it see sweats for instance from countries like China that are not part of the treaty that can still deploy
and develop intermediate-range nuclear weapons and it just feels that right now in the times that we live in, that treaty is something that is no
longer in the interest of the United States.
And if you take the words of John Bolton, he also believes that it's not really in the interest of the Russians anymore either. So it seems during
that press conference -- I'm glad that you brought that up because it's such an important question that we were - that we were also asking John
Bolton at that press conference as well.
It seems -- to me at least from hearing what he said, that the U.S. is going to put in the normal notice to kill that treaty fairly soon. It
doesn't seem as though there's much wiggle room anymore for renegotiating that treaty.
JONES: Yes. Unless China signs up to the treaty as well, if there any talk about negotiations ongoing between President Xi and President Trump on
PLEITGEN: Well, yes. That's also -- that's another thing that that was also brought up. The only thing that we heard from John Bolton on that
topic is that he said, look, he'd heard that the Chinese were saying that they believed that the U.S. should stay in that treaty and we said look, if
I was the Chinese, I would say exactly the same thing.
But the U.S. believes that it should be a universal treaty. Not necessarily just with China also hopping on board the original treaty and
possibly something more universal even than that. Possibly other countries maybe, signing on, as well. That obviously, some of them would take huge
and long negotiations.
But it seems as though at least in the short term, the U.S. has decided that it wants to get out of this treaty right now. It doesn't seem as
though but even in initial stages that there's anything to indicate that perhaps China would be negotiating to get on to that treaty and certainly
nothing that the national security adviser said here today seemed to indicate any of that, Hannah.
JONES: All right. Fred Pleitgen, live for us in Moscow. Thanks, Fred.
And now let's return to our top story. Before Turkey's president addressed lawmakers today, he promised to reveal and I quote, "the naked truth" about
what happened to the Saudi journalist, Jamal Khashoggi. Recep Tayyip Erdogan did revealed some new details in the case but says there are still
more questions that need to be answered.
The Turkish president says Saudi officials turned off security cameras and then removed them from the consulate before Mr. Khashoggi arrived. The
suspects are back on Saudi soil now. But Mr. Erdogan is calling on King Salman to let him face trial in Istanbul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): I will take this opportunity to make a call. I'm calling on the king Saudi Arabia
and the highest level of the Saudi administration. The incident has occurred in Istanbul. So this team of 15 plus three people, 18 people,
should be tried in Istanbul. This is my proposition.
They will decide on this, but this is my proposition and my request because this is the place where the incident took place and for that reason, it is
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I want to bring in Fawaz Gerges, he's the author of "Making the Arab World" and a professor of international relations at the London School
of Economics, joins me in the studio. Fawaz, good to see you.
President Erdogan had promised the naked truth. We didn't really get that. What is his overall game plan there? And is President Erdogan want?
Because if it is the toppling of Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia and that doesn't work, this could haunt him for years to come.
FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, I mean, Turkey regardless of what he said or did not say
in today in his speech to the parliament, Erdogan has managed the crisis in a very strategic and clever way.
[14:40:05] His aims. What are his aims? To polish Turkey standing our reputation in the world. As you know Turkey was having some problems with
western powers to improve relations with the United States by trying to say it's seeking justice which is now has a treaty. And to also exert pressure
on the Saudi leadership.
But most of all, as you tell me, what is the strategic goal of Erdogan? I would say he wants to have the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman. That's
the big price for President Erdogan. He smells the blood and he's going for the kill. He's keeping the story in the headlines for more than three
JONES: Tell us a bit more detail then about the relationship between the two or the rivalry between Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Mohammed bin Salman.
This idea of Arab nationalism against populist Islam.
GERGES: Well, it's not just between -- I mean, President Erdogan Turkey and Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi. What you have is that a geostrategic, it
fears the geostrategic struggle and then they're used to that.
GERGES: On the one hand, you have Turkey on that part and to a lesser extent you're on. On the other hand, you have Saudi, Libya, and Egypt and
their allies. So Turkey and Qatar have given support and refuge to religious activists or Islamist from all over the Arab world.
While Saudi Arabia and Egypt view Islamists as subversive, threatening the regional order and stability. So what you have really -- you keep talking
about the Iranian-Saudi, the Sunni Shia, I mean, conflict which is nonsense. What you have now is the amnesia geostrategic fault line between
two major Sunni states. You have Turkey and you have Saudi Arabia.
JONES: Are they natural allies though or natural rivals? So when we're talking about Turkey and Saudi Arabia in particular, because many people
from the outside the Middle East but look and think why aren't these two working along the same lines and having the same security interest?
GERGES: It's a very important question. I mean, this is the predicament and this is the tragedy of the Middle East. Geostrategic rivalries have
ravaged them at least since up to the end of World War II, the end of colonials. I mean, 1950s or 1960s. Major bloody costly Cold War in the
What you have no -- we talked about the Islamist nationalist, they are really popular nationalism, Saudi Arabia, in Egypt. In the Sunni Arab
neighborhood and you have Islamism, Turkey and Qatar and to a lesser extent, Iran itself.
JONES: For Islam. Yes.
GERGES: Of course. So like what you have beyond all of that is a struggle for power, struggle for influence. And between Saudi Arabia and Turkey, to
come to your point, you'll have the struggle over the leadership of Sunni Islam.
Turkey, President Erdogan wants to reclaim the Ottoman legacy. Remember, Istanbul used to be the seat of the Islamic caliph. So he views Turkey or
President Erdogan as really the inheritor of Ottoman legacy. Saudi Arabia defines itself as what? As the guardian of the two holiest places Mecca,
Medina and the birth place of Islam.
So all in all, even though religion is taken as really for granted, whether between Saudi Arabia and Iran or between Turkey and Saudi Arabia, it's not
a religious struggle. It's a struggle -- power struggle or influence and politics.
JONES: And money, of course. I mean, this is a huge high-stake game for President Erdogan given the fact that Turkey is effectively bankrupt at the
moment and you've got Saudi Arabia which is washed with money at the moment.
GERGES: You're absolutely correct. President Erdogan wants to maximize Turkey's -- I mean, interest and in particular he wants to extract
concessions from the Saudi -- Saudis. My take on it is that he wants more than that, because the Saudis are willing to really make deals with Turkey.
The Saudis have major investments in Turkey. You have hundreds of thousands of Saudis, basically tourist in Turkey to contribute. I think
President Erdogan is going for the kill. He believes that Mohammed bin Salman lies at the very heart of the deterioration, not only between Saudi
Arabia and Turkey but also because of the Qatari crisis and Turkey has taken aside the Qatar and its crisis.
JONES: And just very briefly, Fawaz, if Erdogan is going for the kill, do you think he's going to succeed in toppling MBS?
GERGES: Well, we don't know. My take on it is that Mohammed bin Salman has control over the major power structures in Saudi Arabia. The defense
ministry, the interior ministry, and the national guard as well. All depends really on what's happening to Saudi Arabia and relations between
Saudi Arabia and the Americans. President Trump, so far, is and willing to have a rupture in relations between the United States and Saudi Arabia.
JONES: Again, we see the crucial roles the U.S. plays in the politics of all of this. Fawaz, so good to get your perspective. Thank you very much
for explaining all of that for us.
All right. Still to come tonight on the program, $20 billion, nine years and 55 kilometers of road later China finally opened. The world's longest
sea-crossing bridge. But will the projects bring China and its territory closer together or push them further apart?
[14:45:12] JONES: China has inaugurated the world's longest sea-crossing bridge. The $20 billion, 55-kilomter road connects mainland China with the
territories of Hong Kong and Macau.
But the project is not without controversy. While supporters say it will boost tourism and shape hours of commutes, critics fear it's way for
Beijing to tighten its grip over semi-autonomous Hong Kong. CNN's Will Ripley has more.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: China rarely does anything small, but even by Beijing's standards, this is big.
So big Chinese president Xi Jinping attended the opening ceremony. This massive 55-kilometer, 34-mile bridge is the longest sea-crossing ever,
connecting two Chinese territories, Hong Kong and Macau to the mainland city of Zhuhai, cutting travel time from three hours to 30 minutes.
It has two artificial islands, an undersea tunnel and four and a half times more steel than San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge. A wonder of
engineering and a key part of China's plan for a greater bay area linking 11 cities and 68 million people.
A big plan drawing big criticism.
CLAUDIA MO, HONG KONG LEGISLATION COUNCIL: The regular driver in Hong Kong commutes this bridge, not allowed, all of it (INAUDIBLE)
RIPLEY: Hong Kong lawmaker Claudia Mo sees the bridge as yet another way for authoritarian China to tighten its grip on semi-independent Hong Kong.
Similar to the high-speed rail lines of Guangzhou that opened last month called the Trojan train by some.
MO: They are trying to work, flex their muscles telling Hong Kong people to behave especially after the Umbrella Movement. They say Hong Kong has
become very un-ruling, very disobedient and very ungrateful, ultimately, therefore we need to be taught a lesson.
RIPLEY: An expensive lesson at that, she say, Hong Kong paid nearly half of the $20 billion to build the bridge, a staggering sum, given the city's
widespread poverty and crippling housing shortage. The bridge took nine years and cost seven construction workers their lives. Conservationist
fear it could also kill of the endangered Chinese white dolphin.
Like it or not, this bridge is here to stay, built to withstand earthquakes, super typhoons and cargo ship collisions. A symbol of China's
determination to push forward with its own agenda, no matter what the critics say.
Will Ripley, CNN, Hong Kong.
JONES: Will, thanks very much. More to come on the program including it is a record-breaking jackpot. But your chances of winning the Mega
Millions are pretty low. We'll have all the details on that after this break.
[14:50:37] JONES: Imagine being able to feel a vibration through your body whenever there was an earthquake anywhere in the world. Well, one Spanish
artist knows exactly what it's like to have a seismic extent and she is the subject of this episode of "Smart Creativity." Take a look.
MOON RIBAS, SPANISH ARTIST: There are many things that happens around us that we cannot perceive. So if you have technology, you can reveal this
reality and get the deeper experience of balance.
I'm a cyborg. I have a couple of implants on my feet that are connected to online seismographs and every time there's an earthquake anywhere in the
planet, I'd feel a vibration in my body.
I think the problem with cyborg artist that hard work happens inside the artist, so in order to share what I feel and create external artworks. I'm
a dancer and choreographer so I want to experience movement in a -- in a deeper way.
Whenever there's an earthquake, I move according to the intensity of the earthquake. I need to (INAUDIBLE) do it between the earth and myself.
Earth is actually the choreographer of the piece and I'm just interpreting that they did it, that she gives.
I have different on the project. One of them was actually the - so like the feet of the people walking in front of me. So with these, they had
some earrings. That when someone was walking from right to left and which feels the vibration on my right ear and then on my left ear, that's
depending of interval of each vibration, I would notice feet of the people walking in front of me.
I realize that people in London, they move very, very fast. Also Stockholm, they walk very fast. And the slowest capital city I've been was
Vatican City. And so I created like a movement dictionary.
How that I -- that I've been feeling the earth for years, I've realized that actually, I wanted to go to space. So my grand project is to feel the
seismic activity of the moon. And this will actually allow me to be physical (INAUDIBLE) having my feet on the moon.
JONES: There could be lottery history in the U.S. tonight with the Mega Millions jackpot is a staggering $1.6 billion. That is a world record
jackpot. But the odds of winning are very, very long at this moment, in fact. And you'll more likely to be struck by lightning or attacked by a
shark than you are to win.
But for those playing, you've only got a one in a three in 302 million chance of actually scooping the prize. However, that will not stop people
from dreaming big and buying those tickets, of course.
CNN's Nick Valencia joins us from Tallapoosa in Georgia where people are dashing, dashing to get those last-minute tickets. Nick, are people that
you're speaking if it's seeing this is a great opportunity or just one big con given that the odds are indeed stacked against every individual?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's not keeping anyone from coming here. They've been showing up here all morning long and these lines
are more than 45 minutes here out the door.
But we'll tell you there's a very, very good reason here because this is the most winningest store in all of Georgia here. More lottery tickets are
sold here. More winners are sold here as well, which is why people come across the state line from Alabama.
[14:55:04] We're going to introduce you to one of them here. Let's talk to Bruce Foster, Sr. here. Bruce, you've waited in line, you've bought some
tickets here. Why are you so excited?
BRUCE FOSTER, SR., GEORGIA RESIDENT: Nothing else to do. I'm retired, so I just decided to drive for three hours over to the state line to buy
tickets and stuff and get a little excitement in my life.
VALENCIA: Yes, that $1.6 billion is pretty exciting. So what -- I'm sure you've had time to think about it, dream about it, envision it. What would
you do if you won?
FOSTER: Disappear. Yes, I would. Make myself very scarce. You know, I have a very large family and a lot of friends and stuff and I don't know.
But I will probably do something to help people, the church. People that really, really need it. That's what I would do, you know.
VALENCIA: How do you pick your numbers here? So, you know, we talked to people earlier, they have a formula, they have a science. Some people go
and see the last time, that number was drawn. Do you have -- people use birthdays, anniversaries, things like that. What do you do?
FOSTER: No. I just let the computer pick them for me.
VALENCIA: A quick pick here.
FOSTER: I played my kids birthdays, of course, but that's about it.
VALENCIA: Explain because we're talking to an international audience here right now and they may not understand, you know, what to do is about lotto
here in the United States. What makes it so appealing other than, of course, the prize that you win?
FOSTER: One is greed, to be honest with you. And the other is dreams. Everybody's got big dreams what it would be like to be, super rich and
stuff. But for me, the richness and everything is being home again after 40 years being away and traveling the world with the military and stuff.
VALENCIA: Yes, absolutely. Maybe give some of that money back to some of your military combat veterans.
FOSTER: Oh, man. There is a lot of veterans that in need this stuff. Our country still have to go war, but when it comes time to take care of the
veterans, you know, it's a different story.
VALENCIA: Well, we hope you win because you got your sights set on some big things here. You're talking to a lot of people. Some people have
spent up to $1,100. We heard a report earlier just some these lotto tickets, they're $2.00 apiece. Do the math. You figure out just how much
people are spending here on each ticket.
That line is now taking out the door here. But there are so many winners in this store, hoping tomorrow morning that people here can any ticket,
JONES: Nick, thank you so much. It's interesting because everyone's got an idea of what they do with the money. But 1.6 billion is almost too much
money, isn't it? Or maybe not. Or maybe not as well. Nick, thank you so much for reporting for us there from Georgia. We appreciate it.
Thank you so much for watching tonight. Stay with us here on CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next.
[15:00:09] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, the Dow has clawed back more than 400 points in session low, but it was a kind of day.