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Suspicious Devices Sent To Clintons, Obamas, CNN NY Offices. Aired: 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 24, 2018 - 14:30   ET


BRIANNA KEILAR, HOST, CNN: Plural. Now maybe there's information we do not know, but as far as we know right know with some of our excellent reporting coming from the likes of Shimon Prokupecz and our other reports, there's one organization and it is CNN.

GLORIA BORGER, CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: And nobody is mentioning the name. It's as if it can't roll off the tongue unless you're complaining about it. You know, I'm sorry about that, I'm very sorry about that. I know the President watches television, as David was saying. I know he knows and he can call it egregious, abhorrent to everything we hold dear and say that we are extremely angry, upset and unhappy and I'm glad he's promising to get to the bottom of it, but there is this sort of inability to actually talk about who was attacked, and that would be our -- potentially our newsroom and our news organization.

And, you know, more people were targeted other there and two former presidents, as we know. George Soros being one of them, who he was not going to mention, Eric Holder another.

KEILAR: Well, he's mentioned in recent weeks in negative ways. He has been quick to mention him as a foil in multiple venues.

BORGER: Yes, exactly. George Soros according to some conspiracy theorist, he's funding the caravans. he's funding everything according to conspiracy theorists, he is funding the caravans or whatever. I mean, he's funding everything according to conspiracy theorists.

So these are names, as you point out, that come up all the time in his rallies. I mean, he's not particularly kind to Barack Obama either. I think it would have behooved him to be a little bit more complete in his statements.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER, CNN: When you think about it, this is a major FBI investigation now that's across this country. The FBI certainly is taking this seriously and probably adding all sorts of agents from all over the country to this. For the president, I think not to more directly address some of this, I think it shows just perhaps maybe how he doesn't realize how serious this investigation is. You have a threat now to this country that the FBI -- that the joint terrorism task force is investigating. They're taking it very seriously.

DAVID GREGORY, POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: I have a slightly different view. I know exactly what you're saying, but I think this is a President who often says everything that is on his mind. Think about the Saudi situation where he said 14 different things in the space of two days. I think it's appropriate to let the investigators do their thing right now. What he had to do in this case is condemn and try to bottle up an out-of-control political response to this, which we're going to have any way.

I think he came up a bit short and did the right thing and said the right thing.

KEILAR: So what do you think he should have said? Should it have been something to the likes of, as you know, these are people I've been tough on but this -- but draw a line between rhetoric and ...

GREGORY: I think you can say look, you can certainly -- he just doesn't express himself this way where he takes on -- it's clear to me what he means a lot of times but he doesn't know how to say it. He may go after the "New York Times," he loves the "New York Times," he wants to be seen as legitimate by the "New York Times." He'll never quit Maggie Haberman of "The New York Times" because he wants so much to be embraced by them, and that's true of the media at large. It's true of CNN, but this is what he does.

He uses the media as a foil, he knows it so well. You wish he could be more presidential and say I may attack them, I may go after them, this is far different. This is an attack on major institutions of our country, the free press, it's an attack on America, it's an attack on the institution of the presidency when former Presidents are attacked and that cannot happen.

Law enforcement will do its job. Well, one thing I want to point out is what we be careful. We don't know the intent of who was at work here, whether there were multiple people, clearly people who wanted attention, but I think what Shimon's reporting bears out, these are people who are dialed in to what the dialogue is and who the targets are -- rhetorically targets, of political figures from Maxine Waters to Obama ...

KEILAR: I have to go now to -- let's go to the scene outside of CNN at Time Warner Center. That's where our Chris Cuomo is. Give as you sense of what's going on there on the ground now, Chris, and also how things have been here.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN: Well, this has been a long morning, right. What we're being told right now is that inside the building they're sweeping floor by floor. Why? Because the package that was received in the mailroom here at Time Warner Center didn't just have a crude explosive device in it, it may have had a substance in it as well.

And because of how those substances can move through the air, you've got to be safe and you have to check floor by floor. And that is largely the reason that you're looking at me outside right now. We can't be inside producing the shows. So we're outside and we're using all of our different resources to get that done.

Now, I want to give you a quick update on the reporting that we have at this time and then I want to take you back to how this all started and how we got to where we are. So just getting off the phone with the authorities, there is very little progress to David Gregory's point that he was just ...


CUOMO: ... rightly making, very little progress in terms of understanding what this was about. It will not be called anything related to terror until the authorities can assess whether or not the person or persons responsible for this were trying to use fear to promote a set of political beliefs or an agenda.

I know that that can be a tedious or frustrating definition, but that is the legal definition and you're not going to hear it called terrorism until they can check those boxes. Right now, they don't know if it was individual or a group, whether it was foreign or domestic. Yes, the signature of the devices lead them to believe that this was crude and sophisticated in terms of who do it, but that doesn't tell them where it came from necessarily.

A couple of the packages were hand delivered. The post markings are on are immediate, helped them in that regard. The package sent to the governor who, yes, is my brother, Andrew Cuomo is my brother, that package, I don't know even know if it's related. Based on the reporting that I've heard, there was no explosive device, there is no powder. There are markings on the outside that are not similar to what happened in other instances like what happened here at CNN, so I'd go slow on saying that as related.

But in terms of who did it and why they did it, they are nowhere as of this hour. Now, the good news is they don't believe there are more devices. There have been no more reports of suspicious packages that they believe are actionable. So that's where we are right now. In terms of how we got here, I have someone who has been here all morning. One of our anchors, Kate Bolduan is here. I saw you out here this morning when you couldn't get inside. People didn't know what was going on, how did it develop?

KATE BOLDUAN, ANCHOR, CNN: This morning, it started with a fire alarm. And you know, we've had -- everyone has drills, but when you notice that it was -- the fire alarm went off in the middle of the 9:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. show when they were live, we knew it was something different.

So we immediately started evacuating. When we got down here -- when we initially first got out, it was just a normal level of confusion. There was some NYPD. No one really knew where to go and then you saw layers and layers and layers of law enforcement coming in. NYPD, FDNY and then they established the perimeter. They established a perimeter on this block. That's where we were for a portion of the morning.

And then there was a new sense of urgency of getting us back, I would say another half a block, Chris. They push us back another half a block and that's when we saw the bomb truck come in. It looks like -- you've seen it.

CUOMO: Ir looks like a cement mixer. BOLDUAN: Exactly. It looks like a cement mixer. They pull it up.

It sat in front of the building for quite some time and then you saw, and then they pulled it in to what looked like the loading dock of our building, pulled it in there and that's when they expanded the perimeter once again because they were going to bring that out.

And they brought it out on 58th, I was over on -- I was on 58th and 9th and they brought it out right in front of us and then obviously, headed off and took it to the Bronx. Many things are struck by when we cover this, but when you're part of it, it's something different of course as you well know. We saw just an immense amount of calm, but there was urgency and immediacy with what NYPD was dealing with. You could tell.

CUOMO: A hundred percent, I mean, look, there's a lot of randomness to this. They don't know how any of these devices, the less sophisticated they are, the more volatile they are. And I thought ...

BOLDUAN: That's a great point.

CUOMO: I think look, I think it's been handled well at this point, so far, the authorities seem at this point unimpressed with what they're dealing with, that's always a good sign, and then I saw something else that while we were coming on air, I was listening to the discussion going on and it was about what the President had said, was it enough, was it not enough? Two things. One, and I bet you had the same experience. I was overwhelmed by how many people checked in that just wanted to make sure that we were okay and that even if they don't like what we report all the time, they believe in us and they want us to be okay and something like this is completely unacceptable and I think that's really important for people to remember right now. There's a lot more that unites Americans than that which divides us.

BOLDUAN: When it comes to think what the President's statement, I think what the President said was what you would expect to hear from any President at this moment. His words, talking about unity, coming together is what you would expect to hear from any President.

Hearing it from President Trump at this moment when "CNN sucks" was being chanted at the rally in Houston on Monday, maybe something different, but his word today or what you would want to hear and expect to hear from any President of the United States at a moment where it's scary. It's a scary thing. You don't know where more devices could be popping up. Thank God, we haven't heard of move yet this afternoon. I had a chance to speak to your brother, the governor earlier and he hit t he perfect tone which was no matter what, I asked him do you have a message to the President at this moment? And he says, "I want to dial it back. I want to bring it back from that because every one of us from the White House to congress, every single one of us needs to bring it down, bring down the rhetoric." Because it's a cliche, but we say it, and it means something maybe different today. You can disagree, but you can disagree civilly.

CUOMO: A hundred percent. And look, we don't know whether or not what happened here and in other place today have anything to do with the toxicity in our political culture, but even if it doesn't, it's a good opportunity for us to remember that a lot of things matter more.

BOLDUAN: Honestly, that's the truth. That is the truth.


BOLDUAN: Take the opportunity where it is, take that opportunity to dial it back.

CUOMO: Right, all right, so that's how we got to where we are. Let's bring in -- well, we have Mike O'Neil with us right not, former NYPD, for a little sense of perspective. Mike, I don't know if you were able to hear the earlier reporting, but I am being told from authorities that they're not impressed with the level of sophistication, but they are taking all steps to try to discover what goes into these devices and also what that tells them about who would have done it. Anything you're hearing?

MIKE O'NEIL, FORMER OFFICER NYPD COUNTERTERRORISM DIVISION: I mean, it's all simple, Chris, but what I would also tell you what you brought up is really important that even if they're made crudely, they can be more dangerous because that's when a device could be shake sensitive. They could be moving and some of the innocent people that are handling this along the delivery route could be injured by it. So sometimes, a more crude device could be more dangerous than one that is actually fashioned.

CUOMO: Right, that's what I was told as well, that you've got to be careful because the less sophisticated, the more volatile. Now, in terms of who would have done it, how much can you draw from the targets? That the targets are all pretty specific and obviously, check a box of being oppositional to the President from time to time at least.

O'NEIL: Yes, it's a major part of the investigation. The first thing an investigation will look at is what do all of these intended targets or victims have in common? It's obvious. It's a political ideology here. And if this attack is motivated by a political ideology, it just makes it that much worse. This is a very, very dangerous situation for the country.

CUOMO: Hey Mike, I appreciate it. If you hear anything else, do me a favor. Give us a yell and we'll come back to you because we're trying to piece this together in real time obviously. Let's get some broader perspective now. We have got Juliette Kayyem, she worked in Homeland Security and understands the protocol very well. One of the concerns obviously, Juliette is going to be that somebody sees this, they see the attention, it looked like it wasn't that hard, maybe I'll do it, too.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, CNN: That's exactly right. So what's been concerning me this morning is the present investigation of what's going on, but someone following up. The typical copycat scenario. So that's what everyone in law enforcement is positioning themselves for. So going back to Kate's point about what President Trump said, he said enough. He did not mention CNN or George Soros. The reason why people are desiring something more forceful is not

simply to tone it down, but to also deter copycat incidences. That's the first thing that makes me a little bit nervous about the positioning we're in right now. I'd say one other thing on sort of the theory of the case. Motivation is clearly can be inferred by who the targets are. It doesn't mean it's conclusive, but I think we can use the language safely by saying it's a theory, it's a theory of the case that these people were targeted because of their political beliefs.

I think common sense leads us that way but certainly any law enforcement investigator would know that at this stage, just exactly what Mr. O'Neil was saying. There's a theory of the case right now. They're going to prove it, but certainly that would be where you would start. One final thing, the Department of Homeland Security has been quiet. I've been monitoring, if I am wrong, I apologize, but this is a concerted attack right now.

And I don't want to sound -- we're lucky that these were unsophisticated devices, but someone or people were sophisticated enough to plan something against Democrats or institutions that are viewed as liberal, and we should probably be sort of, you know, the Department should be notifying state and local law enforcement and preparing them what they're on the lookout for but also what could be coming in the days ahead.

So while President Trump said the "right stuff," I put in quotes, I think that's why you're hearing a lot of people sort of clamoring for more because we don't know this is over, and we certainly know that others may follow suit.

CUOMO: Right. I mean, look, I think a little bit of the critiquing of what the President says is a factor of two exigencies, one, the moment, which is where you expect certain things, even though this President is arguably compromised in that regard as Kate was being more subtle in referring that point, which is that Trump right now saying things that are positive about the media, kind of falls deaf when you know that he's often coming after the media.

However, that does not in any way excuse the action and the choice made by the individual or individuals who made it. President Trump didn't put these bombs here, somebody decided to do that for themselves and they must be held to account for their own actions.

KAYYEM: That's right.

CUOMO: Now, I do think that if our leaders are to be taken at their word, which is it's a good time to step back, I think it may be good advice for everybody in the moment. The idea of critiquing, whether or not he went far enough or not, it's like, at some point, you have to choose what's worthy of your attention and your time.


CUOMO: And right now, I think you're better off taking the moment of unity in this. I saw people coming up to Kate in the street this morning when I was first walking by. She didn't know them, they don't know her, but they wanted to know, "Hey, we hope you guys are okay." And I've been hearing that all across the country this morning during the radio show and people should probably seize on that more than the critique.

KAYYEM: Right. No, but I'm saying from the law enforcement perspective, the unity is less relevant than the protection of life right now. And so I do think -- sort of push back on you and I apologize for that -- but I do think that we can't be so focused on the unity to sort of say that this isn't -- it doesn't have a motivation behind it. And any law enforcement person, Republican or Democrat, there is no politics here is going to look at the totality of circumstances today and say, "I have a theory of the case, and I'm going to prove that these are targeted individuals because of their ideology," but it would just be in the same way and just why I'm a little ...

Imagine if one of these bombs had gone off. We have the luxury of an unsuccessful series of attacks, in particular against President Obama or the former first lady, Hillary Clinton. No one would be doubting what that meant. We wouldn't be doubting it. It would be a targeted assassination or targeted attempt.

CUOMO: No, I'm with you. I'm with you. We're not in conflict about any of that.

KAYYEM: We never disagree ...

CUOMO: We disagree, we disagree. That's part of the good thing about the mix and the enterprise, but I'm saying that you are 100% right that they have to have clear and open eyes about what the intentionality is in here for a number of reasons. And God forbid, if you had had what is termed success in terms of the detonation of one of these, we'd have a very different situation and the expectations would be different in terms of what the reaction is to it.

I'm just saying that in the response to the moment and mood, I think that you should take good where you find it. You see a country that seems to be universally appalled by this type of action, that it's too far, that it's too much, and that's not something you hear that often these days. Let me ask you something else from a forensic perspective, what are the next two or three steps that you do on an investigative level to figure out who this is and make sure there's not more of it?

KAYYEM: Okay, so this is really important right now because the last part of your question, make sure there's not more, so that's your primary motivation is the protection of life in the future. So here's the good news, and we're basing this off CNN reporting. This is not the day and age of the Unabomber. So we have so much more digital evidence, signal intelligence, video cameras everywhere. I've been to your studio in New York, even though I'm based in Boston, the cameras, security guards, you've got a hotel across the street. There's going to be a lot of evidence about how the package got there, who was the courier, how things were dropped off? That will also be true for the Clinton home as well as the Obama home.

I do not know about the Soros or what we're hearing about former Attorney General Eric Holder. And so there's going to be a lot of information that needs to be pieced together relatively quickly. In some ways the breadth of this series of attacks is actually -- likely means that there are soft points, people who may have encountered this individual or individuals, institutions or shops that may have sold stuff, courier services.

And each of those points, I have no doubt that is where the FBI is right now to begin to be able to put the pieces together and also ensure that there's not another wave in the next 24 to 48 hours.

So I know we've been mentioning the Unabomber today. It's just fortunately in some ways, the digital age has made law enforcement have more tools that can find this person hopefully or people hopefully faster.

CUOMO: Juliette, just on that last point before we move on here, the Unabomber, by the standard definition right now for the investment protocol, he wouldn't have been considered a terrorist. He wasn't advancing a set of political beliefs.

KAYYEM: That's right. The Unabomber analogy would just be simply that there was not a suicide bomber or not someone who is an active shooter. It would be the use of mail or courier services. The reporting suggests that we're not sure yet to the extent of the mail, and then of course multiple victims.

So stay tuned in terms of how these devices were delivered, but each of those moments from the courier to the purchasing to the execution is also a vulnerability that is going to be examined by law enforcement.

CUOMO: A hundred percent. Thank you for that. I'm just drawing the distinction because everybody thinks whenever you see somebody try to do something with an explosion that's designed to hurt multiple people that it must be terrorism, it's not the way you guys proceed in investigations. Thank you very much.

Now, for more of a forensic look at the actual devices and what they mean and what they have to look at in terms of trying to find authorship of it, let's bring in Jim Maxwell, former bomb tech here in New York for FDNY.


CUOMO: Thank you very much for joining me, Mr. Maxwell, especially right now. This is when we need you most. What can you tell us about what you've heard so far and what your perspective is?

JIM MAXWELL, FORMER BOMB TECH, FBI: Well, based on the photos I've seen and the descriptions that have been given, don't be lulled into thinking that just because this is a rudimentary device that this is not dangerous. When you see a pipe bomb like this, it's indicative of low explosives

and low explosives will propel themselves anywhere up to 3,300 feet per second and something moving that fast can kill you. And what's evident there -- perfect evidence of that is what the Tsarnaev brothers did in the Boston marathon. They culled a mixture from fireworks and used it in a pressure cooker, in a closed vessel to enhance the explosion.

So these types of devices, if they go off can wreck a lot of havoc, so we have to consider ...

CUOMO: I saw that up close here, you're 100% right about that. First of all, you are with the FBI , not the FDNY, I'm sorry about that.

MAXWELL: That's all right.

CUOMO: On that level, will they be involved with this investigation or will this be kept local with the NYPD?

MAXWELL: Now, the task force would definitely be involved here. I have absolute faith in the New York City Bomb Squad. They're a wonderful group and they are a cutting edge group as far as bomb techs are concerned domestically. But they will have the support of the FBI bomb techs, the FBI laboratory, as well as ATF bomb techs. And until we determine the origin of these devices, a lot of hands on are going to be helping out trying to put this puzzle together.

And like what was mentioned earlier, local videotapes of the comings and goings in front of the CNN building and all the other victim locations are going to be closely looked at, interviews are going to be conducted, canvasses of the local area to see what we can develop on how these devices were delivered to these sites.

Then on top of that, the forensics. Once these devices are rendered safe and they get to the laboratory, there's a wealth of information that could be developed. We're hoping that these guys are amateurs and they've made some mistakes and there's some fingerprints or DNA or some sort of device that can be traced on these devices.

So there's a lot -- you know, we have to see where the investigation is going to take us. It has nothing to do with politics. Law enforcement doesn't have that option. They'll look at the facts and see where the facts take us and hopefully bring these people to justice.

CUOMO: John Maxwell, thank you so much for the insight. Appreciate it. John Maxwell was a bomb tech with the FBI. All right, let's now go to Brianna Keilar, she has got new information for us on this, Brianna.

KEILAR: That's right, Chris, and I want to bring in our crime and justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz to bring us up to date on what is going on. This is an ongoing situation right now. We have certain facts that we are aware of, but this is something that law enforcement is still investigating and they're not sure if there are other devices out there. PROKUPECZ: That's exactly right. They are not sure if there are

other devices out there. Look, they think they have a handle on what's already out there. We know that there are five devices that they have definitively linked. We are now getting word that there could be the sixth device which was sent to Maxine Waters, which is likely going to be linked as well.

So they have now six devices, live devices, bombs essentially, that have been sent all over this country that they're now investigating and no word yet even if they know who is behind this. But I can tell you, the FBI's joint terrorism task force, which is working this investigation with obviously their partners, they have a lot of people now assigned to this. They've added people and they're moving forward to try and figure out who is behind this.

KEILAR: I want to bring in David Chipman. You used to be with the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives and you are a certified bomb specialist in that capacity. When you look at what's going on here, and you hear people saying, these are rudimentary bombs. We were talking off camera, you said that does not matter.

DAVID CHIPMAN, RETIRED ATF SPECIAL AGENT: No, it does and I mean, I've seen more bomb techs and civilians injured from devices they thought were fake, hoaxes and rudimentary. I mean, this is the real deal. It's a concern.

Our country has been attacked, and I just want to acknowledge CNN has been attacked. And I get it walking into your studios today, it was different. I talked to the security guards, they are all doing their best and I felt different walking here. so our country has been attacked. This is a serious thing.

I know the speed of the story is going quick and we want to say who did it, but we'll find out by doing an investigation and exploiting the evidence that has been recovered.

KEILAR: With your expertise, at this point in time, these are live explosive devices. Thank God nothing has detonated so far.


KEILAR: And I mean, I can't even express how obviously thankful we are but because that has not happened, that doesn't mean there hasn't been an attack.


KEILAR: That seems to be the distinction that you are making that just because something has not exploded, don't treat this as if it's not serious.

CHIPMAN: I feel very comfortable saying this is a terrorist attack.

KEILAR: Yes. CHIPMAN: It has an intended purpose to spread fear. I'm a trained

ATF agent, I felt scared coming to CNN today. So I get it. This is a real thing. It's ongoing and now, we're going to trust that our law enforcement -- FBI, Secret Service, ATF, postal inspectors -- who have trained for their game day, they are going to do their job and we're going to catch who did this. If it's one person, a group of people, but I would caution that -- I was at Oklahoma City. I've worked bombings where ...

KEILAR: The first World Trade Center bombing.

CHIPMAN: Yes, and Oklahoma City is the perfect thing. When I rolled up on that scene, we had just, a couple of years earlier investigated the World Trade Center. I thought, this is a foreign attack. Well, that's not true. We have no idea what the intentions of this person are now. I believe we will discover that.

But as an investigator, they're just looking at the evidence now. To do otherwise would distract you and probably miss some clues.

KEILAR: Do the intentions matter when there is the effect that this has had when it comes to labeling this as terrorism and, if so, why do you think that we are not seeing some officials including the President labeling it as such.

CHIPMAN: If I am Chris Cuomo, my brother received a device, like to me it's very personal.

KEILAR: Well, I have to be very clear, apparently that may have not been linked to this.

CHIPMAN: Okay, but certainly ...

KEILAR: But there is a concern in a certain way ...

CHIPMAN: Sure, I mean, like I think it's personal and I think that we don't serve any one well by not acknowledging that fact, but we're all professionals, right? You're going to do your job, investigators are going to do their job. I think we can acknowledge that our country has been attacked.

There was an intention and that was at a minimum to freak people out, potentially to kill people.

KEILAR: But if you're just trying to freak someone out, you wouldn't send a live explosive device, right?

CHIPMAN: You wouldn't think so, right?

KEILAR: Because the assumption is that it could ...

CHIPMAN: Right, but you'd want to send something that would trigger, to make sure it was found, those kind of things. And these are where we speculate. This is not normal. We do not every day cover a story where multiple devices are sent to every institution of government and the media. It is different than some of the attacks on government recently. We

have a shooting at a soft ball game, we have the shooting in Maryland against the press, but this is an attack on our country and it's institutions. And that's where we start and now, we're going to leave it up to professionals to find out who did it and why?

KEILAR: So where do they go from here? What would be your concerns especially as Shimon has reported, they believe they have a handle on all of the devices that they know are out there, but there is this unknown about whether there are more.

CHIPMAN: Yes, having a handle on devices should not send the message that everything is fine and civilians should start handling their mail if it looks suspicious. This is an ongoing situation. And I think law enforcement wants to let the public know that they're trained for this and we're going to get to the bottom of it.

KEILAR: What should civilians know then? What should they ...

CHIPMAN: They should -- if there's a suspicious package, you would want to not touch it and get officials to look at it.

KEILAR: So you don't know where it's from. You don't know where it's from. You're not expecting it.

CHIPMAN: Yes, I mean, just normal stuff. It has got, you know 80 stamps on it. It's like, you know, it looks ...

PROKUPECZ: And also like the spelling, right, like the one in New York, the spelling was all off. And to his point about what police are intending to do now as we've seen already in DC, they're going to be tweeting out photos of what to look for, the envelopes specifically or anything else. we expect the NYPD to send something out shortly to businesses, this is what you should look for, if there's any question or if there's any suspicion about a package, call us.

The other thing I want to make a point is that the FBI -- for the FBI, this might as well be a terrorist attack. The joint terrorism task force is in charge of this investigation, so all those investigators who normally do this kind of work on terrorism cases are involved.

KEILAR: So they are mobilized as if this is ...

PROKUPECZ: Oh, yes. absolutely, yes.

KEILAR: ... a terrorist attack -- whether it's being labeled as such or not and I do want to get back now to Chris Cuomo there outside of Time Warner Center there in New York. It's interesting, Chris to hear David Chipman, a former certified explosive specialist say that, from his perspective whether or not this is something that has exploded, this is an attack and that CNN has been attacked.

CUOMO: A hundred percent. We're just very lucky that nobody was hurt, at least this time. What you need to do is close the circle as quickly as possible, find out who's responsible and how to stop any further actions from the same. Now, one function of that analysis will be, well, how dangerous was

this attack? And how volatile were these devices? How realistic was it they could have hurt a lot of people and that's one consideration but you still need to find out who it is and we talk about this a lot, Brianna in these situations.