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Harsh Words from U.S. to the Saudi Government; Migrants Not Giving Up on their Fate; President Erdogan Wants Saudi Suspects Expedited to Turkey; President Trump Proud to be a Nationalist; Trump Consider Military Option To Protect Border; Saudi King And Crown Prince Meet With Jamal Khashoggi Family; Trump And Putin Likely To Meet In Paris Next Month; Hitting Back At The Hackers. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired October 24, 2018 - 03:00   ET



[03:00:00] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: Unusually harsh words for Saudi Arabia from the U.S. president. Donald Trump called the operation to kill a dissident Saudi journalist a fiasco and the worse cover-up ever.

Plus, a closer look at that caravan of Central American migrants and what they think about the names the U.S. president is calling them.

And despite a difficult and estrange meeting between the U.S. national security adviser and Russia's president, plans are underway for a second U.S.-Russia summit.

Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. And this is CNN Newsroom.

Well, after weeks of accusations, Turkey's president has now made his most damning charge yet against Saudi Arabia, calling Jamal Khashoggi's death a brutal premeditated murder.

In a speech to parliament, Recep Tayyip Erdogan rejected Riyadh's claim that the journalist was killed accidentally. He demanded all 18 suspects arrested in Saudi Arabia be expedited to Turkey to stand trial.


RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): The information obtained so far and evidence found shows that Khashoggi was murdered in a ferocious manner. To try to hide such a ferocious manner would be an insult to a conscience of humanity.

Do we expect appropriate actions from Saudi Arabia? From this point inward we want them to reveal all the parties responsible, and to give them the appropriate penalty.

We have significant signs that this was not something which happened instantaneously but was planned.


CHURCH: And in his strongest statement yet, U.S. President Donald Trump called the episode the worse cover up ever and a total fiasco.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It should have never been done. But they thought about it, everything else they did was bad too. The cover up was horrible, the execution was horrible, but they should have never been in an execution or a cover up because it should've never happened.


CHURCH: The foreign ministers of the group of seven nations call for a thorough, transparent and credible investigation. And a photo captured the charge moment when the Saudi crown prince, the man many believed ordered the Khashoggi mission express his condolences to the journalist's son and shook his hand.

Well, CNN's Arwa Damon joins us now from Istanbul. Good to see you again, Arwa. So, Turkey's president describes the killing of Jamal Khashoggi as a ferocious murder but his speech was not the big reveal his aides had promised. Why is that?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it could be that Turkey is still trying to hold some of its card close to its chest perhaps to where of the even greater political ramifications that could arise should they decide to publicly release that audiotape that Turkey said it has that proves that Jamal Khashoggi was brutally murdered inside the Saudi consulate.

That being said, Rosemary, there were some interesting bits of information in Erdogan's speech, things that we hadn't necessarily heard before. One was that, a team from the consulate the day before Jamal Khashoggi went missing went on a reconnaissance mission to two areas in the Belgrad Forest and then to a place called Yalova, that is about 90 kilometers south of the city.

President Erdogan was also saying that the security cameras in the consulate had been disabled, disconnected prior to Jamal Khashoggi entering.

And then you also called into question Saudi Arabia's position that they do not know where Jamal Khashoggi's body is. Remember, the Saudis have been saying that the body was handed over to a local collaborator. Well, President Erdogan was really standing up in saying who is this local collaborator? Show us exactly what it is that you are talking about because at this stage the search for Jamal Khashoggi's remains do continue.

Now, in a bit of an update on the investigation, if you'll remember as well, Turkish authorities were looking into a car with Saudi diplomatic plates on it that was found in a parking lot.

[03:05:01] Sort of on the outskirts of Istanbul, they did get Saudi investigators on the scene, they did search the vehicle, they found some luggage inside. But at this stage it's unclear who those belongings actually do belong to, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Right. And Arwa, the U.S. president appears most skeptical of Saudi Arabia's explanation for the death of Khashoggi, calling it the worse cover up ever. How is that U.S. reaction being received right now in Turkey.

DAMON: No official reaction just yet, Rosemary, although it is being reported in local media. The U.S. State Department has also said that 21 Saudi suspects will have their visas revoked there, they'll no longer be eligible for U.S. visa.

So we are seeing the sort of umping up to a certain degree when it comes to U.S. rhetoric. But Turkey has been frustrated to a certain degree with America's position in all of this, and especially with President Trump seeming to not really step until this stage want to come out and really put the pressure points on the Saudi where it would potentially hurt.

Turkey is quite clear that it wants to see this uncovered, it wants this to be a truthful and transparent investigation but Turkey is also concerned that its findings might be pushed aside by President Trump and by the U.S. and not taken it seriously as they should be.

CHURCH: All right. Our Arwa Damon bringing us that live report from Istanbul in Turkey just after 10 in the morning. Many thanks to you.

Well, even with the kingdom under a cloud of suspicion, the Saudis kicked off their flagship investment conference Tuesday, often called Davos in the desert. But the events have lost a lot of its last day in the fallout from the Khashoggi case. Dozens of business leaders and top officials from around the world have pulled out.

Let's turn now to CNN's John Defterios who joins us from Riyadh covering all of this. So, John, what has been the reaction there in Riyadh to President Trump's criticism of the Saudi cover up of the death of Jamal Khashoggi?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Rosemary, I was trying to figure out the best way to kind of square the narrative here. I would say day one which was Tuesday, was President Erdogan's speech was happening primetime as this event was launching how deep was it going to go about the investigation on whether it leads up to the very top here in Saudi Arabia.

Day two clearly has to be what Donald Trump had been saying last night this being the worst cover-up of anything in history. It's an amazing juxtaposition, though. We have that noise coming from the outside globally, then you have the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman making a pleading appearance here at the future investment initiative.

After about 15 minutes and he had to by his side King Abdullah of Jordan. They came into this main hall where I'm standing here and they had this kind of rock star response. We have the ruler of Dubai, the prime minister of the UAE here with a very large delegation. That was their counternarrative, if you will here, but it's not an

easy sell of their, as you suggested, many that pulled up 30 A-listers that you would normally find at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Now here at the investment initiative they did pulled out.

We have about a quarter less participants but they did push ahead and they did have investments some $50 billion of MOUs on the table here for investors. But it's the noise coming from the outside clearly disturbing Saudi Arabia. And even the major business leaders and cabinet (Ph) members saying we have to have better transparency going forward and get to the bottom of this with Jamal Khashoggi.

CHURCH: So, John, let's look a little closer about at what this likely means for Saudi Arabia's future investment.

DEFTERIOS: Well, that's the -- that's the initiative here, right, Rosemary. Two and a half years ago before Mohammed bin Salman was the crown prince, he rolled up his vision 2030 to win the country off of energy or the dependency on energy.

It was a shock to the system and as a result foreign direct investment went down dramatically. It was 12-year low in 2017, just $1.4 billion. We also had capital flight.

And a leading international pundit (Ph) talked to me in the last 45 minutes about the same. There are two risk here. There is the Ritz- Carlton risk wherein the Ritz-Carlton center where rested 380 Saudi businessman and extracted $180 billion. That doesn't disappear overnight.

And there is a reputational risk about this investigation that's taking place in Istanbul and whether Mohammed bin Salman is the architect of the reforms was behind it or not.

So when we talked about A-listers pulling out, Masayoshi Son, for example, who is running $93 billion vision technology fund for Saudi Arabia, didn't come. He sent an underling. All the Wall Street titans didn't come but they sent an underling.

[03:09:59] So they want to remain engage in Saudi Arabia but it depends on the risk reward level, if you understand what I'm saying. And that's their biggest challenge today on day two.

The crown prince was supposed to take the stage in seven hours' time according to sources here. He'll have again regional support from the crown prince of Bahrain. They want to show him that the Middle East and North Africa backs him despite all the nasty noises coming from outside as the investigation unfolds.

CHURCH: We'll all be watching that. John Defterios joining us live from Riyadh. Many thanks to you.

Well, U.S. President Donald Trump says he is considering a military option beyond the National Guard to protect the border with Mexico. That's what he told reporters as thousands of migrants slowly heading north through Mexico towards the U.S. border. Mr. Trump has said he thinks the U.S. has the dumbest immigration laws anywhere in the world, and it can't continue. Take a listen.


TRUMP: We cannot let people come into our country illegally. We just can't do it. Can't do it. If you don't have borders, you don't have a country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you thinking about the National Guard or--

TRUMP: I'm thinking about a lot of things. I'm thinking about -- I'm thinking about everything including the military, not just the National Guard. The military is what I'm thinking about.

We can't have people coming into our country illegally. It's not fair for a lot of reason. Not fair for the people that are here, not fair to the people that want to come here. The people that have worked so hard to become a citizen of this country, that are waiting in line for 10 years, it's not fair to them, not fair to anybody.


CHURCH: And that migrant caravan started in Honduras, passed through Guatemala and is now in the southern Mexican town of Huixtla. The United Nations says as many as 7,000 people have joined it. It will likely be weeks before they even reach the U.S. border.

CNN's Bill Weir is walking with the caravan and has this report.


BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Another day caravan road. Another 25 hard miles under a merciless Mexican sun. Another meal out of the back of kind stranger's trunk. And for the lucky ones another ride in a kind stranger's truck packed so tight, the tires nearly popped.

On Monday, another man fell to his death on a ride like this, the second confirmed fatality. But as pregnant women begin to wilt in the heat many worry they won't be the last. And yet, as thousands of families try to keep the faith while a full-blown humanitarian crisis moves north there came another round of insults and threats from the president of the United States.

Presidential thinks that you are an invading band of criminals, possibly terrorists.


WEIR: And is threatening the U.S. soldiers to keep you out or separate families, what would you say to him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are an honorable people. We are workers. Would he call a group of kids terrorists? A group of women who need help. We're asking for his support. But of course, we know he has no conscience. He is crazy.

WEIR: Paulo is a volunteer with an organization called Pueblo Sin Fronteras or towns without borders form to help protect migrants. And now a target of conspiracy theorists who refuse to believe that this caravan is fueled only by desperation.

There are some who believe that you are being organized for political reasons or being paid to do this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There's a lot of people so there could be some with bad intentions. But if you look around there are lots of mothers with young kids. Why would they want to come here if they weren't so desperate?

WEIR: President Trump also tweeted that the U.S. will now be cutting off or substantially reducing the foreign aid given to Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. Those three countries were scheduled to receive less than $200 million next year. And for comparison, a country like Egypt gets about six times that amount.

But immigration reformers say every little bit helps for these really poor countries and cutting them off well, it makes this problem that much worse.

So, how far will you go today? Jose is a taxi driver from Honduras where things were so bad he couldn't afford gasoline to fill his cab. And he has heard of the president's tweets. He is using the pictures of the big caravan and saying that's a mob of criminals, and there's even Middle Eastern possible terrorists in there.

[03:14:57] "I don't understand why he's saying that," he says, "we're not terrorists. Our country is very violent but the people are poor people."

Do you have children, ninos, ninas?

"That's what hurt me the most because I have three kids and I had to leave them behind because there's no job."

When do you think you'll see them again?

"I don't know," he says, "it's up to God."

Jose, it's OK. Gracias. Gracias. And so, for the 12th day they walk through jungles and towards deserts with little more than faith and hope and each other.


CHURCH: That report from our Bill Weir who is traveling with the migrant caravan in Mexico.

Well, some see it as a racist dog whistle. Others a cry for patriotism. Either way, Donald Trump isn't backing down from his boast of being a nationalist. Some possible reasons why when we come back.

Plus, U.S. President Donald Trump security advisor sits down with Russian leader Vladimir Putin for a tense talk about a nuclear treaty. We will have all the details in a live report from Moscow. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Terrifying moments there at a metro station in Rome as an escalator malfunction and suddenly accelerates hurling riders into a pile at the bottom. People on the neighboring escalator you saw there reached across, trying to save others from tumbling down.

At least 20 people were injured and one of them seriously. Most of those caught up in the accident where Russian football fans on their way to a match. Italy's five brigade is investigating what happened.

Well, just by definition, the nationalism is harmless enough. A devotion and loyalty to one's country. But to many, it is a loaded and controversial term associated with the far-right racism and xenophobia.

Yet despite all the negative connotations there was Donald Trump standing before a crowd of enthusiastic supporters in Texas proudly telling them and the entire world I am a nationalist.

Our Jim Acosta has more.

[03:19:59] JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a controversial label President Trump is wearing proudly from the White House.


TRUMP: Call me a nationalist, if you'd like, but I don't want companies leaving.


ACOSTA: To his campaign rallies.


TRUMP: You know what I am? I'm a nationalist, OK?


TRUMP: I'm a nationalist.



ACOSTA: In the Oval Office the president defended the nationalist label but he brushoff concerns from critics that he is sending a dog whistle to his base that what he really means is that he's a white nationalist.


TRUMP: I love our country and our country has taken the second (Inaudible). ACOSTA: There is a concern that you are sending coded language or a dog whistle to some Americans out there that what you really mean is that you are white nationalist.

TRUMP: I never even heard that. I cannot imagine that. You mean to say, I'm a nationalist--


ACOSTA: You never heard--

TRUMP: No, I never heard that theory about being a nationalist. We protect and we killed. We do the training and they get killed. We can't do it. All I want our country is to be treated well, to be treated with respect. So, in that sense I am absolutely a nationalist, and I'm proud of it.


ACOSTA: The president has been dubbing himself a nationalist while he's blasting the thousands of migrants heading for the border in a caravan that Mr. Trump claims has been infiltrated with what he calls Middle Easterners, a racially loaded suggestion that there are terrorists among them. But when asked for proof the president who turn to the vice president at one point couldn't provide any.


ACOSTA: You have said that there are Middle Easterners--


ACOSTA: -- in the caravan. Can you explain that? Are you saying there are terrorists in that caravan at this--


TRUMP: Well, it could very well be. And if you look at--

ACOSTA: But do you know for sure?

TRUMP: I have very good information.

ACOSTA: Are you saying that you have evidence that there are terrorists in the caravan?

TRUMP: I spoke with border patrol this morning, and I spoke to them last evening, and I spoke to them the day before. I speak to them all the time, and they say -- and you know this as well as anybody -- over the course of the year, over the course of a number of years, they've intercepted many people from the Middle East.

They've intercepted ISIS, they've intercepted all sorts of people. They've intercepted good ones and bad ones. They have intercepted wonderful people from the Middle East, and they've intercepted bad ones. They've intercepted wonderful people from South America and from other parts further south. They have intercepted a lot of different people, but among the people they've intercepted very recently, are people from the Middle East, OK? So, you can't be surprised when you hear it?

ACOSTA: But no proof -- no proof that they're in the caravan now?

TRUMP: There's no proof of anything.


ACOSTA: The president also took questions about his claims that he will be unveiling a middle-class tax cut plan in the coming days. Even though multiple GOP sources have told CNN that proposal is dues to them.


ACOSTA: Is that an acknowledgement that the original GOP tax cut was too heavily tilted in favor of--


ACOSTA: -- wealthy Americans and corporations?

TRUMP: No, it really wasn't. I'm talking about one that was passed. We're very proud of it and what it did more than anything else it brought jobs, tremendous numbers of jobs.


ACOSTA: Even his own top economic advisor Larry Kudlow conceded to reporters the plan isn't coming any time soon.


LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: We're working through the Ways and Means as you have to do in these doing these things, OK. And it may not surface for a while.


ACOSTA: The president said he may be meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin when he travels to Paris after the upcoming midterm elections. the present has to worry about winning those midterms first, it is a battle he is trying to win with half-truths, falsehoods, and fear.

Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.

CHURCH: Jessica Levinson joins me now from Los Angeles. She is a law and governance professor at Loyola University. Great to have you with us.

JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: Good to be here. CHURCH: So, let's start with the nationalist label that President Trump has given himself. He acknowledged it was a controversial word but embraced it all the same, saying I'm absolutely a nationalist and I'm proud of it. Do you think he understands what that means, or is it another dog whistle to his base as some of his critics have suggested?

LEVINSON: I think he absolutely understands what this means. So, from the beginning of his campaign slogan make America great again, I think this really was make America great again for certain people who used to hold the power in America.

And we have had since the campaign through the first two years of the presidency a variety of different explicit and implicit ways for President Trump to say I want to make this country great again for Caucasian people.

And so, when President Trump uses the term nationalist to your question, I think it's a little bit of both. I'm not entirely sure that he understands the full historical import of saying that, but I am fairly convinced that this is absolutely language that is meant to send to his base and he's not saying I'm proud to be an American. It's saying I'm proud to be a member of this class, in this race, and I think that's what we're really hearing from the president.

[03:25:06] CHURCH: Right. And another part of the president's midterm strategy appears to be the suggestion that people from the Middle East have infiltrated that the caravan of immigrants heading for the U.S. border about a thousand miles away from the border has to be added.

But even President Trump admits there is no proof of anything. Is this another dog whistle to his base and will it work? Will people vote in reaction to this scare tactic?

LEVINSON: Yes, and yes. I don't actually even know that this is a dog whistle. I think this is a dog scream. I mean, I think that this is just a very explicit statement that is false. It has no actual proof whatsoever. So, we've seen the president use a number of different tactics and statements. I think to really worry people who are walking into the polls.

So, for instance I'm talking to you from Los Angeles, California. He has said this is a sanctuary state and people are rioting in the streets. Now people have kind of sarcastically started marking themselves as, quote, unquote, "safe from riots" on Facebook because there are in fact are no riots.

And this idea that people from the Middle East are infiltrating the caravans similarly has no basis and fact that has enormous consequence when it comes to what voters worry about when they walk into the ballot box.

And so, I think that this a continuing a theme that President Trump has started which is to say, you need to be very worried about these certain people, and as a result I am the person who can keep you safe and therefore you must vote for me and other Republicans. CHURCH: And what about this middle-class tax cut that President Trump says he will unveil soon despite GOP sources saying they don't support it and some of them don't even know anything about it. Will that be a winner when it comes to the midterms?

LEVINSON: So, I guess we have to say kind of a winner with who. So, President Trump and if you read the transcript of his discussion of unveiling this tax plan, it's really fascinating because he's saying to reporters we're going to unveil it, we're going to make it happen. And the reporters are saying, how, is it going to be through executive order because Congress is in recess? When are you going to unveil this, what are the specifics.

And he said essentially, I don't know. We're going to do something great. But I'm going to use the words middle-class tax cut because I think that is popular with certain voters.

So, to your question in terms of, is this a win for voters? I think for his base it's enormously energizing. And so, what we're looking to in the midterms is to try and make sure that people who are predisposed to support him will in fact come out and to try and get those people who are going to come out but are on the fence as to who to vote for, to come out for Republicans.

Very few people have lost votes by uttering the words middle-class tax break. And I think President Trump is banking on that despite the entire lack of any specifics.

CHURCH: Jessica Levinson, always great to get your perspective and analysis here on CNN international. Many thanks.

LEVINSON: Thank you for having me.

CHURCH: The most forceful words yet from President Trump directed at Saudi Arabia. Coming up, what the next diplomatic step should be as the Khashoggi investigation proceeds.


CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Rosemary Church. I want to check the headlines for you this hour. Thousands of migrants from Central America prepared to resume their trek across Mexico toward the U.S. border. President Trump has a warning. He told reporters he is considering a military option beyond the National Guard to protect the border. He says people should not be able to enter the U.S. illegally.

Donald Trump is defending his decision to embrace the term nationalist, drawing a press briefing at the White House on Tuesday the president insisted nationalism simply reflects his love of country and does not have xenophobic all races under terms.

In his shop is criticism certified U.S. President Donald Trump called Saudi involvement in Jamal Khashoggi death a total fiasco and the worst cover-up ever and he said it never should have happened. The U.S. State Department took action against 21 Saudi suspects revoking their visas or making them ineligible for visas.

Jamal Khashoggi son and other family members will received at the palace in Riyadh on Tuesday. Sam Kiley reports the photo that emerge is stirring strong reaction.


SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a moment, that could be seen as warm. Others may say is chilling, a photograph of Salah, the son of Jamal Khashoggi shaking the hands of the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. The man that so many people believe hold so much power in this country that he must have authorized or known about the mission directed against Jamal Khashoggi that lead to his death.

There is, however, no evidence for that the Saudi position is all along and consistent that whatever happened inside the consulate in Turkey, it was not on the orders of the Crown Prince, but rather an overreaction that resulted in the tragic accidental death to a general order to try to persuade dissidents and critics of Saudi Arabia to return home.

But nonetheless, this photograph was published within hours of the speech made by the Turkish president, Mr. Erdogan in which he excoriated the Saudi version of events and insisted that this was not a killing for which only a group of intelligence officials could be held responsible. Sam Kiley, CNN, Riyadh.


CHURCH: We want to get some perspective now from Gary Grappo. He served as a former deputy chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia. He is also a former ambassador to Amman. Thank you so much, sir, for being with us.


CHURCH: Now, giving the Saudis kingdom the benefit of the doubt, since the disappearance of the apparent death of Jamal Khashoggi early this month, President Trump has now changed his tune and criticize the Saudi effort to silence Jamal Khashoggi, saying the cover-up was one of the worst in the history of cover-up and he called it a total fiasco. What do you think this shift on the part of the president might signal?

GRAPPO: Well, I think it signals what many of us had begun to believe even weeks ago and that is there is clearly Saudi perfidy in this whole matter as they attempt to try to sidestep their responsibility, I would say direct responsibility in Mr. Khashoggi's death. And I imagine that as we speak at the moment there is a lot of anguish and anxiety in (inaudible) in Riyadh over the president's statement, because it basically says, we don't believe you.

CHURCH: Yes, and up to this point, President Trump's refusal to question the denials coming from the Saudi king and crown prince said that they had nothing to do with Khashoggi's death was an effort of course, to salvage the relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and to continue with current business deals between the two countries.

[03:35:09] But given what we know now about the gruesome details of Khashoggi's death that the body double, the planning that went into this the likely role of the Crown Prince. How is it even possible for the U.S. to continue with business as usual with the Saudi's going forward?

GRAPPO: Well, it is possible the United States and Saudi Arabia have faith critical inflection points in the relationship in the past whether it is oil embargo or in the post-911 era with the involvement of the Saudis there and so it is possible. It requires very careful and deliberate diplomacy on the part of the two countries. It also requires the exercise of genuine leadership from the two sides in the past to clean those two examples that I cited, we have had that.

It's just not clear right now that there is available. Particularly speaking of the Saudis side where you have very senior member they Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman directly implicated in this episode. And so, again it calls for a very depth diplomacy, but also the principal and deliberate stand are in the part of the president in terms of what he expects of the government of Saudi Arabia.

CHURCH: And this is what U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, had to say about how the U.S. is responding to the death of Khashoggi. Let us just bring that up.


MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have identify at least some of the individuals responsible in putting those in the intelligence services, the royal court, the Foreign Ministry and other citing ministries, who we suspect to have been involved in Mr. Khashoggi death. We are taking appropriate actions which include revoking Visas, entering Visa look ups and other measures. We are also working with the Treasury Department to review the applicability of global MagNitsky sanctions to those individuals. These penalties will not be the last word on this matter from the United States.


CHURCH: So the U.S. will revoke visas and consider sanctions against those responsible for Khashoggi's death and of course we just heard there Pompeo say, this isn't the end of it, there is more to come. What more do you think needs to happen to show that the U.S. does not accept efforts like this to silence to murder journalists?

GRAPPO: Well, one of the things I think it really needs to be done. This is where I think the exercise of U.S. leadership is critically necessary and that is to call on some sort of independent investigation. Perhaps involving, for example, the FBI or another. The U.S. investigative agency serving the government to Saudi Arabia and Turkey, but perhaps others to get to the bottom of this whole episode and to make it very, very clear that once there is done, those responsible will be held accountable wherever and whoever they might be. And again that is going to require the exercise of very assertive leadership, most especially on the part of the president. CHURCH: We shall see if that happens going forward, Gary Grappo,

thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate it.

GRAPPO: Your most welcome, my pleasure.

CHURCH: U.S. National Security Advisor, John Bolton, met with Russian leader Vladimir Putin to spell out the reasons behind President Trump decision to accept a nuclear treaty with Russia and despite the growing tension between the two. It appears the Russian leader wants a dialogue with his American counterpart in person.


AMB. JOHN BOLTON, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: President Putin said in the opening meeting today, when the press was there, that it is his words now would be, useful and continued direct dialogue with the President of the United States, primarily on the fields of international events will take place in the near future. For example, in Paris, of course if the Americans sited its interest in this context, President Putin says and I said, yes. In fact that President Trump will look forward to meeting with him in Paris.


CHURCH: joining me now, with the latest from Moscow, CNN's international correspondent Matthew Chance. Good to see you Matt. So it was a very tense meeting between the U.S. National Security Adviser and Russia's president, but despite that plans are clearly underway for a second U.S.-Russia summit, why is that?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think we can overstate the amounts of tension that exists between these two figures during this meeting and John Bolton came here to explain why President Trump has decided to pull United States out of the INF treaty, Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. The Russians have been very publicly criticizing that move saying it is a serious blow to nuclear nonproliferation and saying they will respond in kind, 20 developments of intermediate-range missiles by the United States.

[03:40:10] But behind the scene and I suspect the Russians are, you know, not altogether unhappy with the -- with the U.S., pull-out, partly because they share the U.S. concern that the treaty only covers the Russians and the United States. It doesn't it doesn't cover other countries particular China, which has been sort of developing at intermediate-range missiles at a rapid pace. Missile that are full under that INF treaty where it (inaudible) which of course it isn't. And that is a big concern to United States, big concern to the Russians as well.

The other fact that is that if the INF treaty disappears as it's now likely that that means that the Russians can deploy their intermediate-range missiles, not just on ships which was like denial on airplanes which is very costly, they could effectively strap them on the back of trucks and deploy them wherever they want in Europe which is much cheaper options, always an important factor for the Russian military. Nonetheless, you know, some tensions, some concerns express by the

Russians that Vladimir Putin urging for this meeting and I'm getting that accepted between President Trump and himself in Paris on November 11th, is the hundredth anniversary of Armistice Day, the end of the First World War to be a full meeting on the sidelines of that between these two presidents. It will be the full face-to-face meeting they've had in the first since at the summit in Helsinki which of course President Trump was heavily criticized for appearing to take the side of Vladimir Putin against his own intelligence services over the issue of allegations of Russian meddling in the U.S. political system. And so, all eyes I expect we focus on the sort of chemistry between these two figures at the meeting in Paris and when it happens.

CHURCH: Yes, indeed and a significant date, as you point out, so where does all this lead the issues of Russian election meddling and of course as you tone out there, the U.S. pulling out of this new arms deal.

CHANCE: Well, the answer is the nuclear deal, the U.S. has made it quite clear and John Bolton reiterated this in Moscow that the Russians don't acknowledge that they violated the treaty. That is what the U.S. accuses them doing, developing and deploying intermediate-range missiles.

The Russians denied that and John Bolton said, something along the lines of, well, you know, if they don't acknowledge that they violated it, how can we get to sort of renegotiated and so he's basically sort of putting drawing the line and saying look, the United States is definitely going to be putting out in terms of election meddling, there were (inaudible) about that as well.

John Bolton making the point he says, that he told Vladimir Putin and others that election meddling such that it had occurred did not have any impact on the outcome of the election in 2016, but they did achieve the results of and creating distrust in the United States towards Russians. So, we urge -- Russia to cease-and-desist from doing that in future, because it undermine the efforts to cooperate essentially.

And so, this issues along with Syria and the conflict in Ukraine that will be discussed between the two figures and between officials of the two sides, but you know there is nothing there at the moment it seems. This is going to stop these two figures from meeting and kind of trying to get a semblance of some kind of cooperation on some levels.

CHURCH: All right. Many thanks to our Matthew Chance, bring us live report from Moscow where it is nearly 10:45 in the morning. I appreciate it. Well, coming up on here CNN Newsroom America strike back against Russian hackers attempting to meddle in its midterm elections. We have an inside look at the new counteroffensive. We are back in just a moment.


CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well, President Trump national security adviser warns Vladimir Putin about meddling in the U.S. midterms elections during their meeting in Moscow, but the U.S. also putting the hackers themselves on notice with a new cyber operation. The details now from CNN's Brian Todd.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A shot across the bow to Russian hackers trying to meddle in America's midterm election. An administration official tell CNN the U.S. military cyber command has begun targeting those Russian operative. Apparently overwhelming them with electronic messages and fake email to try to make their you're meddling more difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is very interesting to see this now being part of this U.S. cyber strategy to go to these Russian operators and saying don't influence the election. We know who you are were tracking you, they are going to be consequences.

TODD: More of the operation comes as President Trump national security advisor is in Moscow delivering the same message to the Russians in person.

BOLTON: Don't mess American elections.

TODD: Just what are Russian trolls doing to try to disrupt the midterm vote. Experts say they often create false personas, pretending to be American then they either try to recruit real Americans to stage protests or other events, sometimes even paying for the equipment like this rally against Hillary Clinton or they send divisive messages online.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether that around and you know, a mass shooting or whether that is around questions about NFL protest. We see them seizing on this moments and often just amplifying existing material but to make American think that we are more divided than we actually maybe by again, artificially manipulating that information, they save purchased ads in the past.

TODD: On Friday, the U.S. criminal indictments said the Russian conspiracy of online trolls tried to stop discord in the U.S. with post like these, Obama is tied to the Muslim brotherhood, illegal immigration is a taxpayer burden. U.S official say a crony of Vladimir Putin contributed $35 million to the operation. The woman charge with coordinating the campaign went on Russian TV to ridicule the charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (TRANSLATOR): I was shocked to hear that me, just a simple Russian accountant, (inaudible) a U.S. president instead of Americans.

TODD: This new campaign against Russian trolls isn't the first time the U.S. has gone on the digital offensive against enemies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. is certainly that involved with some pretty severe disruptive attacks on adversaries in the stockinet attack on Iranian uranium enrichment is certainly a great example of that. TODD: Some analyst believe that's what the U.S. should be doing to

the Russian trolls to directly target their capabilities rather than just sending them warning messages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our offense to cyber operations are an option and essentially, you know, frying the servers.

TODD: The New York Times reports of the American effort to target those Russian cyber meddlers is somewhat measured limited in scope. Analyst say the Americans have to be a little bit careful not to trigger an escalation and prompt the Russian or other adversaries in cyberspace to try to hack in to the American power grid, and other key infrastructure. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


CHURCH: Well, hurricane Willa has weaken since making landfall on Mexico's Pacific coast. It has been downgraded to a tropical storm and is moving across the Mexican state of Durango. The storm will continue to weaken as it moves over the Sierra Madre mountain range and we turn now to meteorologist Pedram Javaheri, to get some more on all of this. He joins us live from the International Weather Center. Pedram, how is it looking now?

[03:5010] PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it is looking much better as far as seen how quickly the storm system has exiting the area that had impacted and certainly not going to be lingering around for long and you take a look. This is what unusual storm to come ashore as a category three in fact since 1989 we only had six now major hurricanes impact this region of Mexico, there was three of them happen since 2014.

Ordeal, of course Patricia in 2015 and now Willa in the past seven hours within seven hours, it is now just a tropical storm and quickly going to begin lose its tropical characteristics. As Rosy, mentioned this was moving right over the state of Durango and once does that it crosses into the Sierra Madre mountain range and beyond that there have not much left as far as tropical characteristics. It just becomes quite a bit of moisture that is going to be produced across this region. And that is really the main concern.

Some of these communities. Some of these villages in the higher elevations are not expecting or are not typically seen as much rainfall and to see that in a matter of a few hours is going to be for some flash flooding concerns and the fact -- the city like (inaudible) we have good reliable data from, I see about 800 millimeter every single year.

Notice the first four to five months of the year, almost nonexistent in the rainfall department and then you worked your way into the summer months, we get a few hundred of those millimeters coming in and when it pick up four or five millimeters into the overnight hours of tonight into the early morning hours of Wednesday. That's going to lead some problem that was about 6 to 10 months' worth of rainfall depending on what part of town you are looking at. But with tropical moisture, once again resends up over the state of

Texas through Wednesday afternoon, plenty of wet weather into Texas about 5 million people are going to be impacted by the flooding concerns across the state of Texas as the system quickly moves on that region and into the northeastern of United States. But here is what's going on across the Western Pacific. We are going to tell you about super typhoon, you too, it sits there and not far from Saipan. This system with 240 kilometer per hour winds is expected to move directly over Saipan Island of about 50,000 people and Rosemary, incredibly once it does that notice the forecast strength 280 -- 285 kilometers per hour. It is going to be one of the strongest storm we've seen all year.

In fact, he said that Michael we said it a few days ago with Willa and were saying once again with this next storm in line on the Western Pacific so, pretty incredible to see the strength of some of these storm.

CHURCH: Most definitely. Thank you so much Pedram for getting such a close eye on all of that. I appreciate it.

JAVAHERI: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, the final season of House of Cards premieres on November 2nd without Kevin Spacey. Up next the stars talk about the season that almost didn't happened. Back with that in a moment.


CHURCH: Well, if you got a mega millions lottery ticket with the numbers 5-28-62-65-70 and Mega Ball number five, you have won. You can quit your job and he just made U.S. lottery history $1.6 billion jackpot is the biggest America has ever seen, you can get a lump sum payout, but that means you lose a big chunk up front leaving you with about 913 million no one has won the mega millions jackpot since July, when 11 coworkers in California spent $543 million.

Well, one of the original (inaudible) worthy Netflix shows lost its main villain to scandal, but this House of Cards didn't fall and the new season is about to premiere. CNN's Lynda Kinkade has the details.


[03:55:14] LYNDA KINKADE, CONNECT THE WORLD, CNN: Actress Robin Wright takes command as President Claire Underwood. The premiere its peak and final season of a Netflix drama House of Cards. But it only seems have it after allegations of sexual misconduct toppled the career of actor Kevin Spacey. The profound season a ruthless politician frank Underwood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a big job, the writers has an enormous seats, they are orchestrating a little bit and we all have to jump on board with them.

KINKADE: Spoiler alert, the show killed off Spacey (inaudible) re working to focus on the rest of the cast. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we really get back in our office in about a

day and we (inaudible) some there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have some sleep.

KINKADE: Fans will get a chance to see the reinvent story line on November 2nd. One cast member said, Joe has traces of the original plot tainted around Spacey's character.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I want to the girl he has address. (Inaudible) nobody is trying think his (inaudible).

KINKADE: Another cast member prayed the metoo movement that so radically change the show hoping he had also change his former co- star.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was amazing that it was sort of the tip of the iceberg as well and the beginning of another movement, a necessary movement, but you know, as an individual he was -- I hope he gets out.

KINKADE: A news season, a new lead and a sense of empowerment to take the (inaudible) to the latest headline and give it are most speaking end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is bitter sweet, no one wanted to leave. We are down in the oval office until 3:00 a.m.

KINKADE: Lynda Kinkade, CNN.


CHURCH: Looking forward to it as well. I'm Rosemary Church. Remember to connect with me anytime on twitter. The news continues now with Hannah Vaughan Jones in London. Have yourself a great day.