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Eight Suspicious Package Addressed to Actor Robert De Niro in Tribeca. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 25, 2018 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have seen it develop before our eyes this morning. You're looking at the containment vehicle going to a safe area in the Bronx where it will be examined very closely. Ultimately, it might be sent to Quantico, Virginia, to FBI headquarters to find out more.

[07:00:22] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: If you're just joining us, there is a nationwide manhunt for a serial bomber who is on the loose, a domestic terrorist who is now behind eight bombs.

Yesterday, you'll recall, CNN was evacuated after the news of these bombs spread. Hillary Clinton and her home and former president Bill Clinton, their home in New York was one recipient. The Democratic donor George Soros was another recipient.

The home of Barack and Michelle Obama. The offices of Maxine Waters in Capitol Hill, Maryland, and Los Angeles, California. Eric Holder, one of the bombs was sent to him, but it was not addressed correctly, and it bounced back to the office of Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Her return address is who this bomber has put on the packaging. Then it was addressed to John Brennan, and it came here to our offices at CNN. And then this morning, at 4:30 a.m., the latest report into NYPD was to the offices of the Tribeca Film Festival and Robert De Niro.

BERMAN: OK. On set with us right now, we have former FBI agent James Gagliano. Shimon Prokupecz and Jim Sciutto, our senior national security correspondent and anchor. And Jim and Shimon have been working their sources all morning. And you may see them over the course of these next two hours on the phone. That's just going to happen, because we're trying to find out what the situation is.

Also joining us now, David Gregory, is part of the discussion.

Shimon, lay out for us the new information we're getting and what we're looking at right there.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The key thing is the similarity between the package received today and the packages sent prior to former public officials in here at CNN. Same envelope, same markings on the envelope, same return address. You see the picture. That, the one we're showing on the air is, of course, the one that came to CNN yesterday.

But is that truck on the right is a new package today that bears many of the same hallmarks. And therefore, they are treating it the same way, that this is a functional explosive device.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Same number of stamps on the packaging.

CAMEROTA: Six.

PROKUPECZ: Six. Same misspellings. Florida is misspelled. Names are misspelled.

The package was addressed, as you said, to Robert De Niro, Tribeca Productions, 375 Greenwich Street. So the NYPD here, they also say that -- I'm told by a source that it's similar. The contents of this package are similar; the weight is similar. So it's likely this is just another similar-type of pipe bomb that we saw here.

You're seeing on your screen now that this is the containment vehicle where this -- where this bomb is being transported. We saw that yesterday. So obviously, more work here for the NYPD.

Now, really, this is -- I think with this edition, certainly, I think, the NYPD expected more, that they were going to get more this morning. This one, they got a call for at 4:45 a.m., and they went to work. And they've been at the Greenwich Street address for a couple of hours.

SCIUTTO: The other similarity, of course, is the targets. So this one addressed to Robert De Niro, a frequent critic of the president, as well as a target of the president's criticism. And that is the commonality with everybody else on the list so far: Obama, Clinton, Holder, Maxine Waters, CNN.

CAMEROTA: James, you have been in law enforcement for a very long time. What happens this morning now?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So what we're seeing on the screen right now is called a total containment vessel. And the NYPD and a number of other large police departments around the country, as well as the federal government have these -- these vehicles.

They're scattered out through the five boroughs so they can be quick responders. And essentially, what they do is they work like an inside-out diving vessel. So you know if you go down to depth, if you're a diver and you go down to depth, and you're inside a submarine, you want that device to protect you from the pressure on the outside.

This is the exact opposite of that. We want to contain the pressure that could possibly be released if this device was to be triggered and to go off.

So remember, the No. 1 thing that made bombs deadly, that caused casualties, is the over pressure. That over pressure is what crushes people and property and things like that. So that total containment vessel is what's being used right now to contain that device up north. BERMAN: David Gregory, I'm going to come to you in just a moment.

We're going to talk a little about the politics and the bigger meaning in context here, but we're just getting new information all morning long. New reporting. Shimon Prokupecz is on the set, has something for us.

PROKUPECZ: I'm being told that this is going to be similar to others, to the other pipe bombs. There's a similar device inside this packaging.

So obviously, the police there have done X-rays. And what they see is a similar device to what we've seen photos of and also what we've seen under X-ray. You know, just last night we'd aired some photos under X-ray of some of these devices. I'm told what the NYPD is dealing with here is exactly the same.

BERMAN: So David Gregory, the context here is now eight bombs sent to targets, including two former presidents, a former secretary of state, an attorney general, a former CIA director, a member of Congress, you know, a well-known actor and a billionaire who gives money to Democrats.

[07:05:17] Now we do not know for certain if these bombs were built in a way that they could go off. We know that there were explosives in them and, if handled the wrong way, they could hurt a large number of people. But these are bombs. This is what appears to be a mass assassination attempt it the former political leadership, in some ways, of this country. This is no small thing.

GREGORY: It is no small thing, and it's happening at a time of such toxicity and heaviness in our culture generally, and certainly in our politics, which has gotten to a place beyond political difference of belief and has become more tribal: a sense that your political enemies are bad people or are somehow morally bereft or dangerous to you. And it's in that context that you see this potential violence and a plot like this that's unfolding.

The other thing that strikes me this morning is the fact that Robert De Niro is included on this list, as well. Whoever this is, whether it's one person or persons, is very much dialed into the political discourse at a kind of gossipy level on one, and the thrust of political fighting going on in the country.

De Niro has been very critical of the president, you know, vulgar toward him in a big awards show. The president's over-the-top language. You know, Brennan being so vociferous in his condemnation of the White House and the president specifically.

So it's in that context, as well, that I think adds even greater solemnity to this.

And the other thing I think we have to look for today is the White House, Washington, maybe it's the FBI really pulling everybody together to both update the country on what is known. And as a real show of resolve, I think that's a very important test as this morning unfolds, for the administration: to try to build on what the president did last night, not the attacking the media part, but suggesting, appropriately, that this is an attack on democracy, this is an attack on our government and our -- and our way of life.

CAMEROTA: We will see what and when the White House responds to this latest incident. But in the meantime, we have our reporter, Mark Morales. He is down at the scene outside of Robert De Niro's headquarters there in the Tribeca neighborhood.

So Mark, tell us what you're seeing, what you've seen this morning and if there's any response yet from Robert De Niro?

MARK MORALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, right now we -- since they have moved the package out of the area, we've actually been able to move a little bit closer. So we're diagonal from the restaurant, and high-ranking NYPD officials, FDNY officials, members of emergency services, they're all sort of huddled together. What I imagine they're discussing, the situation that's gone on here. There's not going to be an official briefing until sometime this morning.

I think NYPD officials are still trying to iron out when and where that's exactly going to be. But as I'm standing here, it's really sort of turning into sort of a crossroads. So, you know, you have this emergency response, this heavy vehicle. But at the same time, people are sort of waiting outside of coffee trucks getting their coffees in the morning. So everyone is still kind of going back to normal, but at the same time we have this package that's been found this morning.

BERMAN: Shimon, more details?

PROKUPECZ: Yes. Here's how the NYPD was alerted to this. I'm told it was the security personnel at Tribeca Productions that called the NYPD for a suspicious package that was addressed to Robert De Niro.

What caught their attention was the similarities in what had been released, what the NYPD put out, the photos that we had been airing. So it seems like that -- that had helped the situation. That worked. They saw this package, and they immediately notified the NYPD. Also, you know, the NYPD commissioner just tweeting. He's saying the most highly-trained experts in the world are investigating today's suspicious package in Tribeca.

And the item is now en route, as we've seen on our air here, in that secure truck, to a secure facility in the Bronx. And they're working with their partners. And then they say we will find whoever is responsible for this, this coming from the NYPD commissioner.

SCIUTTO: That's why the NYPD releases photos of this thing, because they want folks when they see them to be -- to be vigilant. So --

CAMEROTA: So that worked.

SCIUTTO: -- people who are out there, who are watching.

CAMEROTA: That worked. SCIUTTO: If you see this -- you know, and they will always say this, if there's any question, exercise caution.

And the other point: the police alerted by someone in the office of the building, which is exactly how it went down here. Someone was alert in the news room here and made a call to --

CAMEROTA: In the mail room, yes.

PROKUPECZ: And that's how we also knew yesterday that the FBI was going to need the public's help in this and that they really didn't have -- they had a good handle on this; but they were afraid that there was going to be more.

[07:10:06] Because when you start asking for the public's help, you start to sort of reveal things about your investigation that you normally wouldn't if you knew who was responsible, if you knew where things were going. And it seemed -- the FBI doesn't always release these kinds of photos. The fact that they did told us a lot.

BERMAN: Let me just read what "The Washington Post" headline, or one of "The Washington Post" headlines was overnight, because I think it's very important to understand what all of these bomb targets have in common. It says, "Amid incendiary rhetoric, targets of Trump's words become targets of bombs."

All of the eight sources or people where these bombs were directed have been targets of the president's words. Almost all of these people have been critics of the president, as well. But as David Gregory noted, Jim, here, James Gagliano, whoever did this is keenly aware of the political debate and discussion that's going on.

Whoever did this, you know, you could take a transcript of some of the debates in conservative media over the days, over the last few weeks, and each of these names would have appeared on the transcript of some radio or television shows.

GAGLIANO: It's -- John, it's very rare, and it's one reason why the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was able to operate with impunity for 17 years. He lived in a cabin in Montana. He eschewed technology. In fact, that's what his screeds were about. There was no social media like we have today, of course, and he had no social media platform.

Today it's different. I'm absolutely certain that investigators are combing through social media platforms of all the digital exhaust. You know, these addresses had to be looked up. You know, how do you find out where the Clintons live? I mean, obviously, a lot of these things are open source. But those are going to be the kind of things that investigators are going to be hyper-focused on.

And I'll say this: Press conferences for law enforcement for press conference's sake, never a good idea. In this instance, I agree with Shimon and Jim. They need to get out in front of this thing now, because the last thing you want to do is the public sitting back, going, "Why aren't we hearing anything?"

SCIUTTO: Can technology companies help on this? Can a Google, for instance -- I mean, granted, there are billion searches an hour.

GAGLIANO: Jim, that is the million-dollar question. If you remember back in 2015 when the San Bernardino shooters, when that incident happened and all those people were killed, the then-FBI director, James Comey, appealed to Apple: "Help us decrypt this. Help us get into this."

And Apple said, "No, our proprietary interests are at stake here. We're not going to help you unlock that."

What did the FBI do? The FBI went and employed a young millennial, who took about 15 minutes to figure it out, and then Apple was forced to come to the table to say, "Let's sit down and talk about this."

PROKUPECZ: The thing I'm fascinated about all these packages is the misspellings. I mean, whoever this is misspelled Florida. Like I don't -- that's going to be a big clue, I would think. I mean, who -- like, how do you not know how to spell Florida?

SCIUTTO: It's interesting, because two possibilities. And I think we talked about this yesterday. Folks have told me, that could be someone doesn't know how to spell Florida, or it could be someone who wants to --

CAMEROTA: A decoy.

SCIUTTO: -- throw off -- you know, kind of like the equivalent of cutting out pieces --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- from a magazine, you know, to send a letter.

CAMEROTA: David Gregory, I just want to bring you back, because I just want to talk about the enormity of what we saw, the threat that we saw yesterday and this morning.

Two former U.S. presidents were targeted. Two Democratic lawmakers were targeted. An ex-CIA director was targeted. An international news organization was targeted. I mean, the idea of what's happening in the country, I'm not sure that it has been adequately captured about how -- how huge and historic this crime is.

GREGORY: Well, I think it is huge. And thank God it has not been deadly. But you're right, that the scope of it: the intended targets, the -- how closely this has all tracked to the political rhetoric and attacks on the part of the president on these individuals, is incredibly alarming. Both to investigators and to all of us in a broader -- in a broader context.

And we are just a couple weeks away from a mid-term election that is highly charged, that is more incendiary than we've seen in a long time.

But the broader historical context is worthwhile. Our friend, the author and historian Jon Meacham, who has been reflecting on this and reflecting on periods where you did have political violence during the Civil War, in the run-up to Civil War, during the period of Andrew Jackson, and of course, fresher for a lot of people's minds, of course, the '60s.

And we've seen it in our own era here. We had Steve Scalise, the member of Congress, who was shot during a softball game, which seemed to, you know, be another moment where we thought how heated the rhetoric is and how awful the divisions are. And this was a gunman who claimed to be a supporter of Bernie Sanders.

[07:15:16] Which is a reminder, as well, that we have to be careful about ascribing motives here. What this person or persons understands is how to get attention, how to plug into the political debate. We have no idea what's really on the mind of this person. But we can separate that and talk about a broader political context where people are at each other's throats in a way where this kind of violence, unfortunately, seems possible.

GAGLIANO: Can I add something to David's point? So that's a great point from law enforcement methodologies and police science perspective. And there's a reason why profiling is an anathema, an anachronism, that we try to stay away from.

And why is that? We've become hyper focused, because we already have a predetermination on who the bad guy or bad guys are, that we ignore evidence to the contrary. So police have to keep an open mind. And obviously the link analysis is important, but it is circumstantial at this point. We've got to be focused on making sure that we take in all the evidence in front of us, and do what the FBI and law enforcement are supposed to do. Follow the evidence wherever it takes us.

BERMAN: Some of the evidence, though, is -- is the targets. All we have is we know where these bombs were sent, and also, the return address to me is fascinating. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who is no longer, and for some time, has not been the chair --

GAGLIANO: There's a message there.

BERMAN: -- of the Democratic National Committee. This is someone who isn't in the news in terms of the mainstream media every day. You only see Debbie Wasserman Schultz's name or hear her name or are obsessed with Debbie Wasserman Schultz if you're tuned into a very specific type of media.

So maybe that does tell us something about the person who sent this, or maybe it tells us something the person who sent this wants us to think.

CAMEROTA: Wants us to believe.

BERMAN: But it's there. It's there, and it's fascinating. Shimon.

PROKUPECZ: Yes, I know, it certainly is. This whole thing now, I think -- I'm just talking with sources. Everyone, obviously, is on edge now in New York, I can tell you, because there's concern. You know, what if one of these things goes off? And so that is the big -- really the big concern.

We've been lucky now. We're dealing with eight of these, and none of them have gone off. Could be that this person is more sophisticated than we think and that these bombs were designed not to go off, to just send a message, because it just seems like something -- it just doesn't make sense the way all of this is constructed --

CAMEROTA: But is it your -- is it the belief of your sources that someone is in New York? I mean, since all of these have been sent to California, Washington, D.C., Maryland, but is -- are they zeroing in on something in New York maybe?

PROKUPECZ: I don't think they're zeroing in on anyone right now, not anybody in New York, not anyone here as far as we know.

SCIUTTO: It's a broader web, because too many targets, and the use of the mail --

PROKUPECZ: The use of the mail. The use of mail and then maybe couriers, too. Yes. So --

BERMAN: The distinction between just sending a message, though, and whether they were designed to go off matters, because there's no one dead right now. But it doesn't matter about whether it's a discussion of terrorism, because terrorism can be designed to scare, period. And whether or not these explosives went off, Jim, we know that they were, in fact, explosives.

SCIUTTO: They were. It's interesting. It's what we don't know. Right? So we don't know who -- we don't know who the attacker or attackers are. And you don't know what the follow-on plan is.

I'll tell you: a thought occurred to me yesterday as we were being evacuated from this building. Secondary attack. Thankfully, it didn't happen, but you send a device like this, you get people out in the streets, and you could do something there. Thankfully, it didn't happen, but that is part of a terrorist's -- whether domestic or international terrorist -- M.O.

With packages like this, Does it pre-stage something else? We just don't know, and law enforcement doesn't know.

GAGLIANO: And to your point, let's look at this from the historical model. Let's look at Eric Rudolph and the Centennial Park bombings, the abortion clinic bombings. That's exactly what he did.

He would set off a device, or have somebody set off the device. Then he would know that responding law enforcement was immediately going to go and check out a Dumpster where there could possibly be evidence, and there would be a secondary device there. Great point. People need to be vigilant on that. When you're calling this into law enforcement, to understand that where you go, where your building has an evacuation plan, think about it from that perspective.

SCIUTTO: Who else does that? ISIS, Islamic terrorists, they do that. A small device goes off. Responders come. Setting off a bigger device. Thankfully, it hasn't happened here, but that's an M.O.

PROKUPECZ: For the NYPD, now the important thing is to sort of get people, people to calm down. People in New York are going to be excited about this, and they're going to need to, you know, keep things safe and sort of keep people calm. We're going to hear from them soon.

CAMEROTA: Yes. David Gregory, go ahead.

GREGORY: I just have a question about the investigation, something that strikes me.

We're talking about the fact that whoever is behind this is kind of dialed into the political debate in a very granular way. And yet, you know, this question that Shimon raised earlier sticks with me, which is how are these packages being delivered?

[07:20:06] And if they or him, her, is so sophisticated about the debate, why they don't seem to have any sense that the packages are unlikely to get anywhere near their intended targets? You know, they didn't know that Brennan is not regularly on CNN but on MSNBC and NBC. Or if you're sending it to a former president's home, it's not going to get anywhere near them. So there's a -- there's a crudeness to them, and the statement of this may be the intention.

But I think about, you know, on grander scales, the Oklahoma City bombing. I mean, the level of coordination and the specifics of the targeting were so much different; and that was somebody who had such a -- such a clear political motivation.

BERMAN: And David Gregory, I know you've been looking for leadership here. And we just got a new statement from the president of the United States, a statement on the morning when an eighth bomb was sent and is being delivered right now in a containment vehicle. What is the first statement the president makes about this today? Is to attack the media.

He says, "A very big part of the anger we see in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the mainstream media that I refer to as fake news. It's gotten so bad and hateful that this is beyond description. Mainstream media must clean up its act fast."

Well, let me tell you what the mainstream media has been doing this morning. We've been reporting on a bomb that was delivered to the office of Robert De Niro, an eighth bomb delivered somewhere over the last 2 1/2 days. Some of the other targets of these bombs include two former presidents, a former secretary of state, a former attorney general, a member of Congress and a former director of the CIA. Explosives sent to either kill, threaten or scare these people and American society.

Traffic was stopped on the West Side Highway today as this bomb was delivered to a safer area. Buildings have been evacuated. That is what is going on this morning, and the president is blaming the media. CAMEROTA: Here's what the FBI would like us to know right now, since

obviously, it would be nice if the president put out this message, since he is the leader, but he's not focused on this.

The FBI would like anyone watching with any information, they've just put out their number: 1-800-CALL-FBI, C-A-L-L F-B-I, CALL-FBI. They will need your help. There is a serial bomber on the loose this morning. We don't know if there are any other bombs with any other intended targets, but that's who they're looking for this morning, and they will need the public's help. And obviously, this would be a good time for leadership, if our leaders could get us all together.

SCIUTTO: Well, the president wasn't watching our broadcast yesterday, nor today apparently, because we do not report purposely false and inaccurate reporting. We check our facts. We speak to sources with knowledge. Our sources with knowledge, whether in the NYPD, FBI or others, have not accused us of sharing purposely false or inaccurate reporting. So that's not what we do.

BERMAN: All right. There are these breaking developments, a would-be serial bomber on the loose this morning, more bombs, at least one more bomb being delivered this morning. We've got all kinds of breaking news including the president's -- if you want to call it a response to that this morning -- coming up after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:27:29] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: This is a very busy morning here at CNN. You can see, on the right side of your screen, what is a crime scene. There has been an eighth package delivered. The NYPD at 4:30 this morning got a call that there was a suspicious package delivered to the offices of actor Robert De Niro at the Tribeca Film Festival. That was Lower Manhattan that you were looking at there.

And you can see here the police response. Suddenly, emergency responders, police, detectives and a bomb containment vehicle had to rush to Tribeca. And they found this package. They put it in the bomb containment vehicle, and they are now taking it to headquarters in order to examine it.

Our law enforcement sources tell us is that it has all of the very same hallmarks that the other seven packages that made news yesterday also have. So those, as you'll recall, were delivered to former presidents, first ladies, secretary of state, CIA director, and of course, this international news organization of CNN.

I want to bring in now General Michael Hayden.

Michael Hayden, General, as you watch this unfolding, that people's fears have been confirmed, that there are more packages out there, and this morning there is a serial bomber on the loose; and a nationwide manhunt. Share your thoughts with us.

GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Alisyn, you know, as the temperature has risen inside the American political discourse, I think all of us have this sense of danger that we're moving into a place where some folks on the extremes of our society would resort to violence. And we've seen good evidence of that yesterday.

Look, it's going to be very difficult to draw a straight line between a presidential statement and these particular actions. But I do, in my heart, believe that the way the president speaks, the way he acts, his mannerisms, his tone, have moved the center line of American political discourse. And when you move the center line of discourse, you begin to pull in the fringe elements to be something more acceptable, more motivated, more justified. And I fear we're seeing that now.

Alisyn, you know there's a reason that the other 44 presidents of the United States have not spoken the way this president routinely speaks.

CAMEROTA: General, the president has had a bizarre statement today.