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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Rabbi Says, We Will Be Back Stronger Than Ever; Suspicious Package Intercepted at Atlanta Post Office on Way To CNN; German Chancellor Will Not Seek Re-Election. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired October 29, 2018 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN London on this Monday, I'm Hala Gorani, tonight America is wrestling with hate-fueled
crimes. In the hour ahead two suspects are headed for court, Robert Bowers on the left charged with murdering 11 Jews in a synagogue and Cesar Sayoc
on the right accused of sowing terror, sending multiple pipe bombs. Later this hour an update on the search for the Lion airplane that crashed with
189 people onboard.
The city of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, is coming together to mourn. The community there is vowing to stand strong after the deadliest attack on
Jews in U.S. history. This was the scene outside the Tree of Life Synagogue as law enforcement rushed to the massacre. A rabbi leading
Shabbat services during the attack shared his thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY MYERS, RABBI OF TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE: I've experienced anti- Semitism my whole in one form or another. I never thought it could reach this level that someone would take into their own hands and make a decision
they needed to murder Jews. That concerns me not just as a Jew, because it wasn't just an attack upon the Jewish community but an attack upon America.
This gunman made it clear that people anywhere that wish to worship need to be concerned because this challenged our freedom of worship. We are a tree
of life. As I've said before to many, you can cut off branches to our tree. Tree of Life has been in Pittsburgh 154 years. We're not going
anywhere. We will rebuild and we'll be back stronger than ever. I will not let hate close down my building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Jeffrey Myers went on to say it has to start with our leaders. Stop the words of hate, Rabbi Myers said. These are the 1 1 people whose
lives were cut short by hate. A pair of inseparable brothers, a dedicated physician, and a 97-year-old described as vibrant and spry. Now as for the
suspected shooter, he is due in federal court this hour for his first appearance in half an hour's time. Robert Bowers faces 29 charges,
including 11 counts of using a firearm to commit murder and multiple hate crimes counts, not a terrorism charge. Bowers blamed Jews for helping
migrant caravans. Minutes before allegedly storming the building he posted, I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your
optics, he wrote, I'm going in. This is how one of the suspect's neighbors describes Bowers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HALL, NEIGHBOR OF BOWERS: The most terrifying thing is just how normal he seemed. He kept to himself. He would smoke his cigarettes in
his car, go for a drive and then be back at odd hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, our Omar Jimenez joins us from Pittsburgh with the latest. I understand you're at the tree of life synagogue, Omar. What's the latest
on the investigation? What more do we know about what happened?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, at this point the suspect is expected to make a court appearance. In 30 minutes or so. It is our
understanding prosecutors will be making a brief statement after that as well. When you talk about this investigation, this is one that is going to
continue for quite some time specifically here at the synagogue. FBI have been piecing through a large and complex scene, one that may take them up
to a week to actually get all the way through and process. They tell us they have already searched the suspect's home and this suspect's car as
well, all piecing together the image of someone that has expressed anti- Semitic remarks both in person and over social media, very well documented history of it including right before, five minutes before specifically,
this shooting began writing on social media that he was sick of everything and that he was going in, in regards to, we can imagine, going into the
synagogue behind us and also while the shooting was unfolding, according to FBI officials, he said specifically, I just want to kill Jews. We can
imagine all of that will be in the investigation and in the court proceedings that will begin in about 30 minutes.
GORANI: And what's been the community reaction here? They've had about a day and a half now to digest this horrific incident.
[13:05:00] JIMENEZ: The community is dealing with a lot both physically and emotionally. It's important to note there are still four people
recovering in the hospital. Two of them in critical condition including one of the officers that initially responded to this shooting as well, and
that is on top of the 11 victims that have been killed. Their memories preserved in the makeshift memorials over my shoulder here. People have
been coming throughout the day to drop flowers and to really reflect on how these lives changed in just a matter of moments. Now if there's any
indication, I should say, of how this community is moving forward in regards to their mind-set, it was maybe summed up best by the rabbi of the
synagogue behind me. Earlier this morning he said, and I want to quote him so I don't misrepresent his words. Quote, "Tree of Life has been in
Pittsburgh for 154 years. We are not going anywhere. We will rebuild and we will be back stronger and better than ever. I will not let hate close
down my building." And that, I think, sums it up best in regards to the mind-set. It is going to be a tough road ahead to get back to normal for
this community. Again, wounded emotionally and physically as well.
GORANI: Omar Jimenez in Pittsburgh, thanks so much. Of course, as always, in these cases, these hate fueled crimes take on a political dimension in
the America of Donald Trump. The U.S. President did call for unity in some scripted remarks while, again, though, slamming the media as the true enemy
of the people, not those who gun down and mow down people in synagogues or send pipe bombs.
CNN political reporter, Rebecca Berg joins me know from Washington with more. The administration sending out its spokespeople including Kellyanne
Conway, again, attacking the media and blaming them for the sort of negative atmosphere that leads to some of this violence.
REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right, Hala. After the President's initial statements calling for unity, saying that anti-
Semitism, of course, was terrible, rejecting anti-Semitism. The President and the administration are retreating to a familiar playbook, taking on the
media, stoking division, stoking resentment among his supporters. And, you know, it's something we have seen from the President many times before.
We've seen it after Charlottesville. We saw it earlier this week with the pipe bomb scare, with multiple individuals including CNN receiving
explosive devices in the mail. And so, the great anxiety and fear in the country.
GORANI: We'll see what impact that has going forward. We're getting very close to some important midterm elections. Thanks so much for joining us
I want to get the reaction of the Israeli ambassador to the U.K.. Thanks, ambassador, for being with us. This is America in 2018. The deadliest
attack against Jews in U.S. history. There was a lady, a 97-year-old, who survived the holocaust but was killed in America in 2018. How did you
first hear of it?
MARK REGEV, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.K.: The news media here in London, shock, outrage, anger. My late father was a holocaust survivor, too.
Their generation went through terrible horrors because of the hate they experienced and discrimination. And many people hoped they had learned the
lesson of where hatred leads. We've seen a rise of crimes in America but across Europe as well. I can't give you an explanation if it's happening
in so many places, there are all sorts of reasons. Is it possible social media is empowering people who in the past said despicable things in dark
corners and now they're saying it publicly.
GORANI: Some people are saying what is empowering some of the people to speak out now is some of the rhetoric they're hearing from the President
himself. Do you agree? Why or why not?
REGEV: You'll have to explain why it's a global phenomenon. I think the President deserves to be praised for what he said after. He said those who
want to destroy the Jews, we will destroy them. You don't get stronger language than that. I noted here prime minister may, across the world have
very strong language condemning.
[13:10:00] GORANI: In the U.S. there is something specific going on. I want to put up a graphic that shows you the rise in anti-Semitic attacks in
the United States in 2016 and 2017. Up 57 percent against Jews in America. If you look at the years preceding there was a decrease in anti-Semitic
attacks. That's the last year you see there in 2017. But you see those years. It seems to coincide -- granted it is a global phenomenon. It does
coincide with the election of the President. In anti-Semitic attacks. That's the last year you see there in 2017. But you see those years. It
seems to coincide -- granted it is a global phenomenon. It does coincide with the election of the President. Do you not concede some of it is the
tone set by the leader of the free wormed himself?
REGEV: Why are we seeing a similar rise in the United Kingdom, in other places in Europe?
GORANI: You think there's no connection?
REGEV: I would say the following. If one looks seriously at anti- Semitism, the first thing one has to see is talk about its longevity. Anti-Semitism has been there for centuries. Jews suffered persecution
throughout the middle ages.
GORANI: If we could refocus on today because I get that you're not wanting to pin any of it on the President but the President is saying things, for
instance someone in one of his rallies said George Soros, lock him up. Railing against the globalists who are cheating U.S. workers. Called white
nationalists, some of them very fine people. That is not setting a tone in your opinion? That gives license or a green light for some people to act
on their worst impulses?
REGEV: Let's be clear. There's anti-Semitism on the far right, but there's also anti-Semitism on the far left and we've seen it amongst
Islamic extremist in many ways those who are on the extreme edges of the political spectrum, they live for conspiracy theories and it's difficult
sometimes to have conspiracy theories without talking about Jews and the evil things we supposedly do as Jews. This is not a new phenomenon.
Thankfully today the Jewish people are independent and sovereign and have a homeland and Jewish communities are aware of the threats and Democratic
governments are supporting Jewish communities to support themselves. This is very important.
GORANI: So, you're not saying that Donald Trump has anything to do with it, though some Jews in Pittsburgh say he's not welcome there. Rabbi
Jeffrey Myers of Tree of Life, he said stop the words of hate and then it will have an impact on how people act toward minorities like Jews in
REGEV: I'm sure within the Jewish America you have diverse opinions from all sorts of spectrums. What can we all agree on? Anti-Semitism is
despicable. It has to be condemned and should be given no legitimacy. It's easy for people to attack anti-Semitism on the left. What is more
difficult is when it's in your own camp. There should be no legitimacy. Anti-Semitism should not enjoy any safe spaces and, most importantly, no
one should show solidarity with anti-Semites.
GORANI: Ambassador to the U.K., thanks for joining us on the program this evening. Of course, the shooting in Pittsburgh is one of the stories of
hate-fueled violence. Just hours ago, a third suspicious package addressed to CNN was intercepted at a postal facility in Atlanta. If you look at the
picture of this package it looks like a lot of those pipe bomb packages sent to prominent political targets in New York and elsewhere as well as to
time warner center in New York. It does appear identical to those dozen or so packages that officials say were sent by Cesar Sayoc last week. Now two
of those packages were addressed to CNN's New York headquarters, as I mentioned. Shimon, tell us more. What more do we know about this package
that was intercepted before, in fact, it could reach CNN center in Atlanta?
SHIMON PROKUPESZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. Clearly as you said there, it looks like the other packages. Police believe it is
connected. We know that a post office was evacuated and just like the other packages, the bomb squad comes in, they remove it, and they'll, you
know, link it to him officially and he'll be charged with this additional one perhaps some time even today before he appears in court this afternoon
we'll hear of this. And that's it. Thankfully they were able to find it, to remove it safely. And so, it's just going to get added to the
investigation. There's a lot of concern obviously with this individual and there's going to be continued concern because there may be other packages.
These things move very slowly sometimes through the post office, so there is a likelihood now at this point we could see more of this in the coming
GORANI: I found it surprising that he built basically at least 13 pipe bombs, and not a single of them, one of them, went off even accidentally.
Were they built to go off?
[13:15:00] PROKUPESZ: Well, in his mind perhaps he was building them to go off. We don't know what he was thinking and police have not shared what
he's told them or about whether or not he meant for these to explode, but they all along have been treating this like they were meant to explode.
Yes, it's true that it appears they were not well made, that there was no detonator. There was nothing to trigger this explosion. So, you can shake
it. You can move it. You can bang it. You can hit it with a hammer. You could do all sorts of things to it and it was unlikely it would explode.
It doesn't take away to the fact this is an explosive, that this is a bomb. We heard the FBI director say that last week. This is not a hoax. They're
treating it seriously. What if somehow it did get moved in a way or something did happen that caused it to explode. We don't know for sure.
The way it was built, it's fair to say, that it would not have exploded no matter what someone did to it. But it doesn't take away the fact that it's
GORANI: One quick last one, why is he not charged with a terrorist offense here? Presumably if you had an Islamist-inspired guy send 13 pipe bombs,
it seems clear terrorism would have been something -- charges he'd be facing. In this case not. Why not?
PROKUPESZ: Right. It has to do with the law really. What he's facing are very serious charges and probably more severe than any terrorism charge
perhaps. The thing is with these kinds of cases because there's no nexus to a terrorism organization, it's not international terrorism, it's very
hard legally for the FBI for the department of justice to move forward on these kinds of charges. I know there are things that they want congress,
the laws to change and they're asking congress to change the laws so that people can be charged with terrorism. Look, there's domestic terrorism all
the time in this country and you don't see those kinds of charges when folks are arrested for them. There are other things you can do which we
see in this case.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much.
Still to come tonight, desperate families waiting for word on the fate of their loved ones after an Indonesian plane crashes in the Java Sea. We are
live at the site. We'll be right back.
GORANI: I want to bring you up to date on that plane crash in Indonesia. A Lion Air Jet carrying 189 passengers and crew members went down just
after taking off from Jakarta. Divers are expected to resume their search off the Java Sea at day break. So far 21 body bags have been returned to
Jakarta. Will Ripley has the latest.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For the families of Lion Air flight JT 610, agonizing hours of waiting, waiting against all odds for any
sign of hope, hope for the 189 people onboard including two infants and one child.
[13:20:00] But any hope of survivors disappears as bodies are recovered and debris rises to the surface, pieces of the plane, a cell phone, life
jackets, telltale signs of a plane that crashed into the water, broke apart and sank. Hundreds of rescuers including divers scour the java sea, some
34 nautical miles from Jakarta where the plane took off Monday morning local time. The head of the Indonesian national transportation committee
says divers are searching relatively shallow waters up to 35 meters or 114 feet deep looking for the flight data recorder and wreckage. Morning local
time. The head of the Indonesian national transportation committee says divers are searching relatively shallow waters up to 35 meters or 114 feet
deep looking for the flight data recorder and wreckage. It was supposed to be a quick flight, about an hour from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang. It
dropped and vanished from the radar. The Boeing 747 max a new plane, only 800 flight hours, delivered to Lion Air in august. The airline says the
captain, Indian national, had more than 6,000 flight hours, his co-pilot had 5,000. They asked to turn back shortly after takeoff. The plane
disappeared after just 13 minutes in flight. Lion Air says there was an unspecified technical problem reported the night before the flight, but
engineers checked and repaired the issue and the plane was reported ready to fly. There were also scattered thunderstorms in the area but nothing
that would have posed a danger to the flight. For the devastated families of 189 people, a growing list of painful questions not only what happened
but why. Will Ripley, CNN.
GORANI: Senior international correspondent Ivan Watson is in Jakarta with more. Lion Air has a good safety record. This is very surprising.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I do have to add a caveat there that the European Union had put Lion Air on a black list
for nearly a decade up until two years ago because of concerns over safety. It, for example, had a plane that fell -- landed short of a runway in 2013,
landing in water. But, fortunately, in that case there were no fatalities in that pretty serious incident. In this situation, the head of the search
and rescue agency here has already said there's very little chance of any survivors at all because of just how the remains that have been recovered
basically people have been smashed to pieces. It's very terrible and grisly work the divers and the crews are doing out at sea right now. As
for the relatives, the authorities have been flying scores of relatives here to Jakarta to help as they go it through the process of trying to
identify remains. I did speak with one girl, a 14-year-old, Hala, whose mother got on that plane early this morning, likely checking in from this
terminal here from the Lion Air terminal, and she said she's been crying all day but she has to be strong because so many other people are
suffering. Take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KESHIA AURELIA, DAUGHTER OF LION AIR PASSENGER: My mom was a really kind person. I don't understand why, but maybe god has his own way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: But the big question here is how did, essentially, a brand-new plane tumble out of the sky just minutes after takeoff? We do know one of
the top officials has said the debris they have pulled out of the sea so far shows no signs of burn marks, no suggestion there was some kind of a
blast that took place. So, the big question is what could have brought it down so quickly after takeoff? Again, as you heard in Will's report, this
was supposed to be just a 70-minute flight.
GORANI: Ivan Watson in Jakarta, thanks very much. Ivan was mentioning Lion air there. Over the last several years it had been upgraded and this
is a brand-new plane. Investigators have a lot to find out why this went down. We'll have more on the story later.
Now German politics because there's a lot going on there. And it has an impact, of course, on the whole region. In a surprise move, the German
Chancellor Angela Merkel announced she will not be seeking re-election once her term ends in 2021.
[13:25:00] Now the news followed yet another pretty humiliating defeat for her governing coalition in a state election this weekend. Fred Pleitgen
joins me live from berlin. So, what is the impact on the chancellor herself that in a local, regional election her coalition did not do as well
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that her position is extremely weakened and even after the decision she
announced stowed to very soon step down from the leadership of the party and to not run for another term as well is more her trying to get some
breathing room rather than her really managing to straighten things out. I do think the position right now is not one that's very strong. It was
interesting to hear, Hala. What she said in her speech today she recognized at least for the past couple of months she has been part of the
problem. She said the way her coalition was working was unacceptable. The fact that it wasn't able to make a lot of very important decisions was also
something that was not acceptable. She was saying she doesn't believe the electorate is at fault but the way the governing coalition has been working
is what was at fault. Here is what we learned today. It was the announcement that spelled the beginning of the end for the German
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY, through translator: This is my last term as chancellor of the federal Republic of Germany. In the next
election in 2021 I will not run against as chancellor. I will not run anymore and I will not take any other political positions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: After 13 years as Chancellor Angela Merkel saying she wants to begin a new chapter. Her decision a sign of a weakened position in her
party, a party that suffered poor results in a regional election this weekend. Despite recent struggles over her long career, Angela Merkel
became arguably the world's most powerful woman. She adopted several nicknames along the way including ma Merkel. No matter what she has been
called, though, Angela Merkel has proven to be a force to be reckoned with. She grew up in east Germany under its communist regime. Studying to be a
scientist. But after the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, she threw herself into the world of politics, working to reunify Germany after the Cold War. She
had a knack for toppling those who underestimated her. Her mentor, the formidable Chancellor Helmut Kohl used to tease her for her provincial
manners. And yet within a decade she was calling for his resignation as he faced allegations of corruption. By 2005 she had become the country's
first female chancellor. Known for being pragmatic and understated, though some found her indecisive. Early on she was criticized for being slow to
act and reticent to speak out. Merkel showed her resolve when she allowed more than a million refugees, most fleeing from Syria's civil war, to cross
into Germany. It was initially applauded by many Germans. Later heavily criticized by those who believed Germany was overburdened. Her answer to
critics was, we can manage. It was a decision that would come to define her political career. Merkel is one of the longest serving leaders in
Europe and has worked along three U.S. Presidents, four British prime ministers and four French Presidents.
Under her leadership the country has grown prosperous and powerful. But Angela Merkel has also challenged Germany to open up and shoulder for
responsibility for global problems. As she prepares to step down in 2021, Germany will need to decide if its new leader should continue down that
path. And right now, her coalition partner, Hala, needs to decide whether they want to stay in the coalition in the long term. The social Democrats
have taken a major beating in the last couple of regional elections in Germany and the last federal election for well. They say for now they're
going to stick in the coalition but they want to wait and see what happens and who the next head of Angela Merkel's party will be whether they want to
stay in for the long term as well, Hala.
GORANI: Times are changing. Fred Pleitgen in Berlin. Still to come with midterm elections just eight days away now, the U.S. is reeling from two
horrific hate-fueled crimes. So, is America more divided than ever? I think we can say it is, but how do you heal? I'll talk about that next.
[13:30:17] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Returning now to two crimes in America fueled by hate, one leading to the deadliest massacre of
Jews in American history. Any minute now, the suspect in the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting will make his first court appearance.
Robert Bowers is accused of killing 11 people during Shabbat services. Now, he has a history of anti-Semitic rants against Jews on social media.
Then in about 30 minutes' time, the suspect behind the mail bomb scare will appear in court in Miami. Cesar Sayoc is accused of sending suspicious
packages to top Democrats and to CNN at Time Warner Center in New York.
There was another, by the way, parcel that was intercepted before it could reach CNN center in Atlanta, looked a lot like some of the packages that
were sent to those high-profile targets in New York and elsewhere.
Now, all of this is happening just a week before the crucial mid-term elections. Let's get some perspective now from CNN political commentator,
Michael Smerconish. He's host of "SMERCONISH" here on CNN.
What is going on in the country, Michael, do you think? We have attacks against synagogues, I mean, massacres in synagogues, parcel bombs being
sent from a guy who just looks like a complete lunatic with his van with all those political stickers on it. What's happening in America?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: Well, I think they're emblematic of this incredibly hostile environment that's been fostered by politicians and a
lot of their media mouthpieces, and the president is accepting of zero blame for whatever contribution he may be making to this dynamic.
I think that his hands are not clean in that regard. But as early as today, he just sent out a tweet and, again, doubled down on this concept
that the so-called fake news remains public enemy number one.
Hala, I would challenge, however, the idea that Americans are deeply divided, because the political science that I've looked at, and it comports
with my own anecdotal information as a radio and television host. The politicians are divided. The media is certainly divided.
But, you know, rank and file Americans have not altered their political views in the last 30 or 40 years. The debate has gotten much hotter, much
nastier, but there has not been a significant shift on how people perceive the issues.
GORANI: But that's interesting that you should say that because the Trump supporter base, it seems to me like that's a new phenomenon or at least one
group of people whose beliefs, whose ideological positioning has revealed, has been brought into stark relief now in ways that hasn't before. Is that
not fair to say?
SMERCONISH: Well, I think that is fair to say and I'm sure that to the CNN International audience looking at the United States and wondering in some
quarters, what the hell has gone wrong here? I would say to them that we reward passion, because voter participation in their country is not what it
Those who are most reliable voters end up being the ones on the far right and the ones in the far left. And then you extend that we have a problem
in the United States. It's a problem with complacency somewhere in the middle. People need to get more energized if they don't like this
GORANI: Right. But the middle is the establishment candidate, the centrist candidates, they are not doing well politically. Their
favorability rating is down in the U.S., but not just in the U.S. You can look at Macron in France and Merkel in Germany. What's going on there?
SMERCONISH: Well, I think there's probably been a rise of nationalism that has brought on by and, you know, people have different theories. I'll
simply give you mine in this regard. We're living in a time of great technological change and also demographic shift.
[13:35:02] And I think that there are a number of people and a variety of countries in a word they feel forgotten. They feel as if their station in
life has been jeopardized. And none of the elected officials are looking out for them. And I think that -- and frankly, that would be my
explanation as to what just transpired in Brazil. I think you see it all over the globe.
GORANI: You also have social media. I mean, that is something that didn't exist a generation, at all. This is amplifying and giving platforms to the
wildest racist conspiracy theorists to the most vile racist posts you can imagine. And those are amplified circulated multiplied millions of times
in ways they weren't before.
So when politicians take advantage of that, in order -- for their own self- benefit, it could lead, also, to the glorification or the elevation of extremes.
SMERCONISH: I travel extensively in the United States, speaking on matters of politics and civility in particular and knock on wood, I've never had an
unpleasant experience with someone who has heard my work and wants to comment on it.
Plenty of disagreement but nothing unpleasant. But, Hala, you should compare that to my Twitter feed, my Facebook page, my Instagram account
where people's anonymity can be protected. And my point is people say things when their faces are not seen that they would never say face-to-
So anonymity has really escalated, I think, in a bad way, the political dialogue.
GORANI: Last one on the midterms, though, because there had been predictions of blue -- of a blue wave. Now, you're seeing some polling
suggesting perhaps that won't take place. And by the way, Donald Trump is at his highest popularity rating, according to one poll a week ago, forty-
seven percent, I believe. Do you think this won't have a major impact on the midterms?
SMERCONISH: So you're right that he's at a high point for him. But the recent data says this. If you have an American president under water,
meaning below 50 percent during a midterm election, their party typically loses 33 to 36 seats. The Republicans, in this particular case can only
afford to lose 22. Twenty-three is the magic number.
So, you know, recent data suggests that the Democrats will retake the House. I think President Trump in his most recent speeches seems to be
acknowledging that. The more interesting battle in the United States, the U.S. Senate. And that's too close to call.
GORANI: Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia, as always, thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate --
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
GORANI: -- having you on the program.
As I was mentioning there with Michael just today, a new suspicious package addressed to CNN was intercepted this time in Atlanta. It happened the
same day President Donald Trump blamed the media for the great anger in the country, again, calling journalists the true enemy of the people.
Let's bring in our chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter. And we're showing our viewers, Brian, the latest Trump tweet on who is truly
responsible for this climate of hate. What's going on here? Because online -- I mean, Michael was saying in person people act differently than
online. But what is being posted online does have real life effect.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I agree with Michael was saying, but I think increasingly, the real world and the virtual world
are merging. And unfortunately, you see that merger with something like Pittsburgh where this individual who was radicalized on the internet, who
was sharing an anti-Semitic and anti-immigrant messages then acts out in real life.
So we can't just look at the social networks and say, oh, well, that's just the virtual world because it is spilling over into real life into the real
And we see this, of course, around the world. This has been a problem for Facebook and Twitter and other companies that are grappling with the rise
of misinformation and the hate speech and all these other factors that exist in the virtual space.
By the way, this is the connective tissue between the Pittsburgh shooting and the mail bomb suspect. In both cases, these men appear to have been
radicalized on the web.
GORANI: So I guess people would ask the question without these social media platforms, and in the case of the Pittsburgh killer or suspected
Pittsburgh killer, it was one of these media platforms that I've never heard of where people go to discuss their racist views.
But without them, would this not have happened or is this political climate just so out of control now and the division so out of control that it would
have had no impact with or without?
STELTER: I think what we had to face is that beauty of the internet, the miracle of the internet also means that it hyper charges and adds a lot
more fuel to fires already burning.
Here's what I mean by that. Somebody like the suspected mail bomber, he was able to connect with other individuals, spread conspiracy theories,
read lots of memes and lots of crazy ideas in a way that it would have been a lot harder to do 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. There's always been ways for
hateful people to get together. But it's a lot easier now both in the U.S. and other countries.
[13:40:01] And I think that what we are seeing the consequence of that more and more these days where people can organize, they can come together and
oftentimes that's great. It's used in lots of wonderful ways. But the downside, it's also used by bigots and hate groups to organize in ways they
GORANI: Thank you, as always, our chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter in New York.
"I would not be able to love a gay son. I would rather he die in an accident. Or a good hoodlum is a dead hoodlum. And I never beat my ex-
wife, but I thought of shooting her various times." These are all quotes from the man who is about to become the president of the world's fourth
Far-right candidate Jair Bolsonaro won Brazil's president election this weekend with 55 percent of the vote. His victory marked the end of one of
the most polarizing and violent campaigns in Brazil's history elections. Shasta Darlington is in Brazil.
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's known as Brazil's Donald Trump, an antiestablishment politician who promises to drain the
swamp and crack down on crime. And, like his U.S. counterpart, he campaigned on change and won.
63-year-old Jair Bolsonaro is a seven-term congressman with a reputation for controversial comments, often aimed at homosexuals, minorities, and
women. Once telling a congresswoman she was not pretty enough to rape.
He has a strong conservative base who, like him, are pro-life and against same-sex marriage. A former army captain, Bolsonaro wants to bring back
law and order, which he says was strongest under Brazil's former military dictatorship.
And even though military rule ended in the mid-80s, Bolsonaro still believes in some of the old regime's brutal tactics.
"I support torture. You know that." It's tough talk that has resonated with voters tired of political corruption and widespread crime. Brazil has
one of the highest murder rates in the world and Bolsonaro plans to fight fire with fire, encouraging police to use lethal force on criminals.
Last month Bolsonaro himself was stabbed in the stomach at a campaign rally by a man who police believed was mentally ill.
On the economic front, Bolsonaro promised free market reforms and privatizations.
But as the head of South America's largest economy, he also said he would safeguard natural resources and warns that China already owns too much of
Whether or not Bolsonaro makes good on his campaign promises to make Brazilians safer and more solvent is yet to be seen. He'll get that chance
when he officially takes office in January.
Shasta Darlington, Sao Paulo.
GORANI: A lot more to come this evening. Friends, family and fellow journalists remember the life and legacy of Jamal Khashoggi. We'll be
[13:45:14] GORANI: Now, to the case of murdered journalist, Jamal Khashoggi. After weeks of changing their stories, Turkey's foreign
minister says the Saudis are now, quote, "slowly admitting that Khashoggi's death was a premeditated murder."
He says those responsible have been arrested in Saudi Arabia and Saudi's chief prosecutor is meeting with his counterpart in Istanbul. The Saudis
have denied Turkey's request to extradite 18 suspects. Khashoggi was last seen entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on October 2nd.
There is a memorial service in London which is happening this evening to pay tribute to the life of Jamal Khashoggi. His fiancee is expected to
speak and Martin Chulov who's the Middle East correspondent for "The Guardian" also is playing a role this evening. Martin, thanks for being
with us. Will you be speaking this evening?
MARTIN CHULOV, MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT, THE GUARDIAN: I think there's quite a few of us who are going to speak some words as testament to the
life of Jamal Khashoggi, and particular the last 12 months in which he used that potent powerful platform of the Washington Post to produce pointed
critics of the Saudi administration in particular Mohammed bin Salman and aspects of his reformed program.
And it really was compelling journalism. It was -- it was truth to power. It was -- it was journalism that mattered over the last 12 months and it
did shed a light on a kingdom that as ever is opaque and maddening.
GORANI: And how do -- I know you'll be speaking, his fiancee is there and others. What do you think the best way as to pay tribute to Jamal this
evening? By highlighting what aspect of his work, you mentioned the last year with the Washington Post.
CHULOV: I think the last year is very much going to shape his legacy in many ways. He did dare to take this platform in Washington. He did dare
to be the most powerful critic that the Saudi administration faced.
He wrote eloquently, he wrote compellingly, he wrote with insights, he shed light onto aspects of the -- of the reform program, the economic and the
social reforms and the total absence of any political reforms that really did help us build and understanding and inside is understanding. That was
essential. It was a brave role that he played and he did pay a terrible price for it.
GORANI: He wasn't always a critic of the leadership of Saudi Arabia. I had been interviewing Jamal Khashoggi for 15 years. And when we had him on
the show 10 years ago -- or 12, 13 years ago, I remember when the Israel/Hezbollah war was going on. We would book him because he was
someone in Riyadh who had close ties to the royal family. It's later in life that he then became a critic and apparently pay for that.
CHULOV: Exactly. I think that that need to be recognized. He was a part of the Saudi establishment for many years. He was -- he was an editor in
the sense that there couldn't be any truly honest or open journalism when he was editing Arab news and other Saudi titles. That needs to be
But equally so, perhaps even more so is that later in life, he found a powerful voice. In exile, he found a way to speak truth to power that he
hadn't earlier in his life. And we found that increasingly compelling reading. And I think the world really did benefit over the last 12 months.
And one thing going forward, I do think that after the details of his hideous death have been revealed in full totality and the international
spotlight has been focused on Saudi Arabia, after so many months of things regressing in terms of press freedoms and other things, I do think that it
would be a very brave regime anywhere in the Middle East from this point onwards to silence a dissenter or a critic in this manner going forward.
GORANI: Is it the belief, do you think, among his friends, his family that there -- that justice will be served here because there are 18 suspects?
We haven't heard anything about any of them being charged or questioned or anything like that. No details are emerging on that angle of the story
from inside Saudi.
CHULOV: And I think it's fair to say that there is indeed great skepticism about whether justice, as it -- as it should be served, will be served. We
do have the 15 members of the Saudi security establishment who went to Istanbul who have, as we are informed, been arrested.
We do have Mohammed bin Salman's chief domestic enforcer, Saud Al-Qahtani losing his job. And we do have the number two in the foreign intelligence
service losing his job as well.
But anybody in the kingdom which is so micromanaged, as Saudi Arabia is, does understand that this doesn't stop at the door of the royal court. If
Saud Al-Qahtani has given the orders here, he had to have been in discussions with his boss and his boss being the crown prince.
[13:50:09] So there has been a series of four-guy setup here and now, may well have been involved. In fact, the evidence does point their way, but
the evidence pointed higher than that. And with the political cover that MBS has been getting from the Trump administration in particular, it seems
unlikely to me that this crime will end up right on his desk.
GORANI: And now you say that this potentially would lead some regimes or people close to regimes to hesitate before they target some of their
citizens abroad, if that's what happened. But at the same time, it is -- it is really, really terrifying, dissidents even abroad.
I mean, we've -- I've tried to interview and speak to critics of regimes and governments all across the Middle East and they've all refused because,
and understandably, they're worried for their safety. So this is having an impact in that way as well.
CHULOV: These are dark times. The darkest times that I've been reporting in the region and that's been for 13 years. There is a pervasive fear
But I was in Riyadh last week and then what I was surprised at is that taxi drivers, shop keepers, hotel workers and normal people dared to criticize
Mohammed bin Salman openly for what had taken place.
They believe that this -- it doesn't stop with this domestic force, that it does go all the way to the -- to the royal seat of power. I hadn't heard
that level of dissent in Saudi Arabia in the last couple of years, but people were openly embracing criticizing the crown prince to somebody who
had been diminished who had lost authority through a brazen reckless acts after this.
GORANI: So do you think then that he's in jeopardy?
CHULOV: I think he has been diminished and I think he has to lay low for a while. I don't think he has the reckless swagger that he had for the last
couple of years where total impunity was what he enjoyed. He's been severely chastened b this financially, politically, reputational. I don't
think the House of Saud is under any real threat at the moment, and nor do I think that he is.
But he needs to regroup. He needs to understand that this cannot happen. That there are checks and balances, that there is an international order
that more or less will step forward if something is atrocious as this takes place in his name.
GORANI: All right. Martin Chulov of the Guardian who will be taking part this evening in a memorial service for the murdered journalist Jamal
Khashoggi. Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back.
GORANI: All this week CNN is showcasing some of the most iconic elements of India. First, we take a look at one of the country's oldest dance
traditions. Amara Walker has that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: With the staccato of taps against a wooden block, Saroja Vaidyanathan, directs her students as they practice one of
India's oldest dance traditions, Bharatanatyam.
A display of theatricality and faith. A dance required --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Let's take you live here to an update on the synagogue shooting suspect. Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is it important to file federal charges?
[13:55:07] GORANI: All right.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: -- Robert bowers, the suspect in the mass murder of 11 Jews who were simply practicing their religion Saturday morning,
Shabbat services, when they were gunned down. Jean Casarez, you were in the courtroom when the charges were leveled and now we've heard directly
from Scott Brady (ph), no cameras in federal courts, as we know.
But this seems to be moving rapidly.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does appear to be rapidly. But also, there are constitutional concerns and you have to do certain things in a
certain amount of time. When I saw him wheeled in at that wheelchair, just minutes ago, not only did he appear very aware to me, his eyes were open,
alert, but he seemed calm.
There was nothing nervous about him as he was wheeled in to this courtroom that obviously was a very new room that he had never been in before packed
with people. U.S. marshals, law enforcement all over the room. They wheeled him between his two defense attorneys and almost immediately took
his handcuffs off.
The reason why he had to sign some paperwork. And later on, the judge did say to him I understand that you have signed a financial disclosure
document saying that you need to have an attorney appointed for you, yes, he responded.
The question is everything that you put down in that form accurate? Yes. And then the public defenders said that there may be others that will
actually represent him but they are here today.
BLITZER: So he is represented by public defenders. Not some lawyers simply doing pro bono, is that right?
CASAREZ: That's correct. These two were from the public defender's office. They may not ultimately be who represents him, but they will be
public defenders, according to the magistrate judge.
BLITZER: I want you to stand by, Jean. Susan Glasser is still with us. Susan, you spent a lot of time overseas and you've seen anti-Semitic
incidents in various countries where you've been reporting from. Did you ever think we would see something like this here in the United States?
SUSAN GLASSER, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Well, you know, I mean, you've been reporting and others about the traumatic uptick in anti-Semitic
incidents just over the last year since 2017. This follows on basically over the last decade, you've seen an alarming rise even in Western Europe,
in France, in Germany when we were briefly stationed in Jerusalem in late 2016.
In some neighborhoods in Jerusalem, you could hear French spoken in the streets. It was so common, because so many French Jews were concerned
about the rise of anti-Semitism in their country. They were moving to Israel or buying second homes there.
I don't -- we're nothing like that right now. But I think it's one of those moment that causes you to sit back and to say, you know, what is
going on that this happened over the course of the last year? We didn't stop to note it before something as horrific as this mass killing causes us
to pay attention to it.
BLITZER: And in the midst of this, we're not blaming the president of the United States for what happened in Pittsburgh, but in the midst of this,
this morning he starts the tweet that the news media once again is causing all this uproar, the true enemy of the people.
Doesn't he realize potentially how dangerous that is, the words he utters, the message he sends to derange people out there if the news media is the
enemy of the people? Will they go to do something about that?
GLASSER: You know, Wolf, the president first used this expression enemy of the people all the way back in February of 2017. He's clearly been told
over and over and over again by his advisers, by the critics who he does pay attention to on television and on Twitter that this is language that
we've never seen from an American president before.
I lived in Russia for four years where Stalinism, the actual term by which people were sentenced to the gulags was to call them enemies of the people.
That was the official phrase.
So to me, the idea that a president is just ignorantly saying this, I don't think so. I think that President Trump is doing this on purpose and it's
at core a part of the political campaign he's constructed. It's not enough to run against Democrats. He's decided that he needs to frame journalists
as the enemy.
BLITZER: Yes. So many people have come to the president, supporters and others and said to stop using this phrase, enemy of the people. It's very
dangerous. It's very reckless. It could cause a lot of problems. As you know CNN even today, we discovered another pipe bomb that was in the mail
to CNN headquarters in Atlanta. It's an extremely worrisome development. I hope he stops even at this late stage.
Susan, thanks very much.
GLASSER: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We're standing by for a White House press briefing. We're looking at live pictures right now. We're going to bring that to you
live as soon as it gets under way. It's been a longtime since --
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: You've been watching breaking news on the attacks in Pittsburgh and we'll have more on that in a moment.