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President Trump Continues to Campaign in Wake of Synagogue Shooting; President Trump Rhetoric and Its Possible Effects on Political Violence Examined. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 30, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What our nations needs to be doing is more praying as opposed to pointing fingers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not responsible for what happened this week. But going forward, if he does not change, he will be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, October 30th, 8:00 in the east. The first funeral services begin today for those who were murdered at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh. They were killed because they were Jewish. Two brothers, Cecil and David Rosenthal, and Dr. Jerry Rabinowitz, they will be laid to rest today.

President Trump is traveling to Pittsburgh. Some have welcomed his visit. Other local officials say they would rather he would wait. Moments ago, we spoke to the rabbi of the synagogue. He had a powerful message for the nation's leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RABBI JEFFREY MYERS, RABBI OF THE TREE OF LIFE SYNAGOGUE: I turn to all of our elected leaders because hate doesn't know a political party. Hate is not blue. Hate is not red. Hate is not purple. Hate is in all. I turn to them to say tone down the hate. Speak words of love, speak words of decency and respect. When that message becomes loud and clear, Americans will hear that, and we can begin to change the tenor of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: As the country reels from this deadliest attack on the Jewish community in U.S. history, the president is still fueling this conspiracy about a group of migrants more than 1,000 miles away from the U.S. border. He is using the same language of invaders that the mass murderer suspect said he likes. "The Washington Post" reports the White House is struggling to balance their campaign strategy of launching these political attacks with empathy and unity in the wake of the violence that has rattled America.

BERMAN: I want to talk to one of the reporters behind that story, White House reporter for "The Washington Post," Josh Dawsey. Josh, thanks very much for being with us. Alisyn said the White House is struggled, they may have been struggling, but it seems they have come definitely down on one side. The president very clearly has decided to continue to use that language, the language of invasion when describing the migrants. He uses the language against the media, enemy of the people. How did they come to that choice?

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The president is in a full- fledged campaign mode in the last week of the midterms. You see he sent 5,200 troops to the border yesterday to deal with the caravan that's much smaller. He's doing an interview with "Axios" published this morning but said that they're going to end birthright citizenship because obviously a lot of questions whether they can do that. His rhetoric against the media, his rhetoric against illegal immigration has really been as strident and inflammatory and fiery as ever.

And the president thinks it works for him. He says that his supporters are looking for a fighter, they're not looking for a unifier, that they want him to take on what they see as the status quo. And that's what he continues to do. You've had a dozen or so bombs sent to various people. The president has attacked news outlets saying that they were responsible for it. Unclear where he's getting that from. The president has really talked about immigration more and more. And even amid this shooting in Pittsburgh, you have seen the White House focus pretty heavily on the midterm campaigns, which are a week away.

BERMAN: Let me read you a quote from your piece, "As the mail bomb and synagogue shooting crises unfolded over the past week, Trump received advice from allies who urged the importance of sounding presidential, but he was at times annoyed by what he viewed as unnecessary and gratuitous counsel said one Republican in frequent contact with the White House." That's interesting, Josh.

DAWSEY: So the president last week, you saw this manifest itself on Twitter a bit where he said the bomb stuff, in quotes, could be damaging to the Republicans in the midterm election. The White House game plan here was really to talk about immigration nonstop until next Tuesday, talk about the caravan, talk about the border wall, more troops at the border. That's kind of what he wanted to do. And over the past few days, that has slowed a bit. You've see him at rallies in Wisconsin last week where he kept saying I'm having to behave. I'm behaving. Have you ever seen anyone behave as well as I am? And you have seen a tone down in rhetoric at different points, which is something the president does not want.

BERMAN: It seems to me he's trying to claw back the immigration discussion any way he can. When the issue of bombs being sent to political opponents, I'll send 5,000 troops to the border. When the issue is an anti-Semitic attack on a synagogue, it's I'll get rid of birthright citizenship. He's throwing things up in the air trying anything to get the discussion back to immigration because that's where he and Republican candidates want it for the next seven days. DAWSEY: The president believes, and he's told his advisers this

repeatedly, John, that immigration, that's why he won the election. He thinks that Democrats do not have a message that counters him on immigration. They believe seeing polls that Americans want stronger border enforcement and want tougher measures at the border, in the president's mind he thinks that is a defining issue that separates him from Democrats and will help him win the midterms for Republicans.

[08:05:00] Now, whether that's true or not obviously we don't know. It's a week away. But in the president's calculation, immigration is the key to getting turnout higher, to rallying up his supporters, and why he sees that the American people elected him. In his mind it's largely about immigration.

BERMAN: I just want people to keep that in mind as they look at these supposedly dramatic moves he may or may not make or is making over the next few weeks.

Josh, also in your article, a really interesting discussion among people in the White House or close to the White House about the president's ability to express empathy. Those around him feel that at times he comes up short.

DAWSEY: The president has not shown repeatedly a willingness or a desire to express empathy. You saw early on, we reported this today and it was in Bob Woodward's book "Fear" as well, when the president went to see the members of a dead soldier that had flown back, it did not go well. He was rattled by that. The president often even flashes a thumbs up sign at places like the 9/11 Memorial or in hospitals where he's seeing victims. He often when he goes where tragedies have happened, appears with law enforcement officers and hospital officials to thank them, but spends less time maybe with the mourning families.

The president has shown a willingness to be tough and to say things that other leaders wouldn't say to get his supporters with him. But empathy is not something he has shown consistently, nor is it something that he necessarily positions himself to want to do.

BERMAN: Josh Dawsey, great reporting as always. Great to have you with us. Thanks, my friend.

DAWSEY: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Joining us now to talk about all of this, we have Joe Lockhart, former Clinton White House press secretary, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, Jonathan Weisman, deputy Washington editor at "The New York Times" and author of "Semitism, being Jewish in America in the Age of Trump." Great to have all of you. We've been looking forward to this conversation.

Joe, let me start with you. As press secretary, what do you think when you hear Sarah Sanders try to explain that the president of the United States' words don't cause any of this. The president of the United States' words don't have any impact. He's merely saying invaders or invasion. He's merely calling the press the enemy of the people. He's calling Democrats whackos and crazy lunatics. But that has nothing to do with the violence that we're seeing.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was a little hard to watch yesterday. But let me come to her defense a little bit, which is the job of the press secretary, one of the jobs is to reflect the views of the president. And I think she accurately reflected the views of the president yesterday. And I think the most significant communication in the last week has been that tweet about the bomb in quotation, getting in the way of the midterms. That's how he thinks. He's not thinking about the whole country. He's not thinking about victims. He's thinking about himself.

CAMEROTA: So it is not her job to be honest with the press.

LOCKHART: No, it is. That's why it was hard to watch, because there was repeated falsehoods there. You can argue whether someone's rhetoric is inflammatory or tough. You can't argue about winning the vast majority of the votes in the country when you lost by three million. And it was over and over again. And that's one of the reasons why I think she doesn't go out very often.

But this does come down to, I think, a very simple and understandable thing, which is the president always puts his own interests ahead of everyone else's, even if it's the country's. And we're going to watch this, and it is going to get worse over the next week because I think he sees this thing slipping away.

BERMAN: Jonathan, it is very interesting because you talk about that notion that the president puts his own interests first in the realm of this discussion about anti-Semitism, because the president very clearly on Saturday condemned anti-Semitism. He came out and said it's horrible. He says he doesn't stand for it. He's got Jewish grandchildren that we know he adores. He's very pro-Israel. That all is true. But then at the same time there is certain ways he talks and certain things he refuses to do that very much get to this discussion about anti-Semitism. Explain.

JONATHAN WEISMAN, DEPUTY WASHINGTON EDITOR, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": The president knows that the backbone of his support, his most unshakable supporters, are tuned in to his nativist, nationalist rhetoric. They know that he is on their side. I think of Andrew Gillum, the Democrat who is running for governor in Florida who said you might not be a racist, but your supporters think you are a racist. The fact is that there are people who are anti-Semitic, who are racist, who are bigoted, who think the president speaks for them, and he is very unwilling to push them away.

CAMEROTA: Ana, Florida, let's go there since that is your home state. You are watching that race in particular very closely. The president has introduced a new, very racially loaded word to go after Andrew Gillum, the Democrat. What do you think he's doing?

[08:10:02] ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the more he inserts himself into that race, the more he helps Andrew Gillum. I think that his insults and attacks against Andrew Gillum are shameful, and they are lies. Look, I can't believe -- and the reason that his words about improving his tone and talking about unity rings so hallow, if you go check the Twitter feed of the guy who was sending the explosives through the mail, this guy was obsessed with Andrew Gillum. I can't tell you how many tweets I saw of this guy attacking Andrew Gillum.

And then Donald Trump gets in the middle of this race, and he calls Andrew Gillum a thief. Mind you, this is a president who had to pay a $25 million settlement for bamboozling people through Trump University. This is a president whose entire campaign is under FBI investigation. And then, for me, which is more offensive, he says Andrew Gillum is going to turn Florida into Venezuela. Guys, there is more chance of me walking down the aisle in a size zero dress than there is of Andrew Gillum turning Florida into Venezuela.

And it is a cheap shot to use that in a state where there are so many people who fled communism in Nicaragua and Cuba and Venezuela. Venezuela is ruled by a very cruel, murderous dictator. He kills, he beats, he jails his opponents. He starves his people. He is corrupt. He has destroyed Venezuela. The inflation rate there is over a million percent. In Florida we have got a Republican legislature. In Florida we've got a Supreme Court that has been appointed for the last 20 years by Republican governors. So to use that cheap shot for fearmongering vis-a-vis Andrew Gillum is just wrong. And Ron DeSantis, the nominee of my party, should stand up and reject that in the name of unity in Florida, in the name of truth. Debate issues, that's what Floridians like me want to hear.

BERMAN: Ana, no matter how you walk down the aisle and wearing what, no doubt you will be beautiful.

CAMEROTA: And what date is that? John and I --

BERMAN: We're waiting for the invitations.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: We did hear everything else you said, but again, congratulations on that.

And Jonathan, I think it's interesting. To Ana's point. We had the discussion, we'll continue to have the discussion about the effect of the president's rhetoric leading up to in the year before the bombings, also the attack at the temple. But only look at what he has said since. Since those attacks he's called the press the enemy of the people. Since those attacks, he said thief about Andrew Gillum. Since those attacks he called Tom Steyer a lunatic. That's all since. We don't have to have this discussion.

WEISMAN: He's still talking about globalists, which is a dog whistle for anti-Semites. He's still going after George Soros, another dog whistle for anti-Semites. Donald Trump doesn't change. He might have moments where he reads the paper in front of him, but he won't change. I mean, if the largest slaughter of American Jews in American history won't change his attitude and his rhetoric, nothing will.

CAMEROTA: Joe, why are we still debating whether or not a president of the United States' words have any impact? And why are we still debating whether or not inflammatory words lead to hostility which lead to violent actions? History books are filled with this continuum and this link. We know all of this.

LOCKHART: I think it's because it is such a fundamental and drastic change in the office of the presidency. And we get -- day by day you get numb to it. But if you take a step back. Trump said something interesting last night, which was, why didn't Obama get blamed when the Charleston black church happened? Which makes no sense.

CAMEROTA: Right, but it is a window.

LOCKHART: It is a window. And I think the country is still clinging to this idea that we elect someone, Democrat or Republican, and at least for a while he's our president.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LOCKHART: And Trump has said, and I have said this repeatedly here, Trump believes he's only the president for those who voted for him. The rest of us don't count. He doesn't see us. He doesn't hear us. And that's a big change.

CAMEROTA: I'm so glad you brought this up, because you know about the what-about-ism that the White House and Republicans keep using. Why didn't Bernie Sanders get blamed when a supporter of his went to a congressional baseball game and shot Republicans? If Bernie Sanders had said, I sure hate Republican baseball players and I wish somebody would body slam them, he should receive blame.

LOCKHART: And there is now, thanks to Twitter -- and it's one of those things where his staff can try to walk him to the water, but they can't get him to drink. He'll occasionally say something off the teleprompter, but when he gets by himself alone, you see the real Donald Trump. And it comes out on Twitter. And his words, and I think, John, you made a good point in the last question, which is it hasn't stopped.

[08:15:00]

LOCKHART: It keeps going. It is what he wants. He wants to whip us up because he thinks politically that works for him. I think he's going to have a shock next Tuesday.

JOHN BERMAN, HOST, CNN'S NEW DAY: Interestingly enough, Anna, he -- over the last, you know, 48 hours, suggests he's sending 5,000 troops to the border to protect, you know, the U.S. border from migrants for 1,000 miles away from the border. And this morning in an interview with Axios says he might do away with birthright citizenship, the idea that if you were born in the United States, you are a U.S. citizen. What do you see by the signals that he is sending?

ANA NAVARRO, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CNN: Again, it's the empty rhetoric of -- of him saying that he's going to be more of a unifier and tone down the rhetoric. We know that one of the things that ginned up and triggered the anti-Semitic man who shot those people in Squirrel Hill was precisely the hysteria and the lies surrounding this caravan. I think Donald Trump saw the caravan as a winning issue.

Look, I'm going to advise my friends in Puerto Rico the next time they're getting hit by a hurricane, they pretend to form a caravan and storm the United States. Maybe then they will get the response from the federal government that can actually help them. He is -- you know, what is he doing? He's -- he's killing a fly with a bazooka. You don't need 5,200 troops on the border. It's all, again, about demagoguery, ginning up the base, feeding this fire, causing mass hysteria, which he thinks wins him elections.

But it is -- you know, it is just shameful demagoguery and fear mongering and dividing Americans and fabricating culture wars that don't exist. This is the way -- this divide and conquer strategy is the way he won in 2016 and the book he keeps going back to to try to continue winning. And Americans -- Americans need to reject this because he's not going to stop, so we've got to stop him.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, HOST, CNN'S NEW DAY: Ana, Joe, Jonathan (ph), thank you all very much. President Trump insists that he's being unfairly blamed for the pipe bombs that were sent to people that he had criticized. We'll get a reaction from a man whose name was on one of those packages next.

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: President Trump is suggesting that he's been unfairly blamed for the pipe bombs that were sent to people who he criticized. Listen to the president on Fox last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They didn't say bomber found, they talked about Trump in the headline. Now, they didn't do that with Bernie Sanders when he had -- they didn't do that with the Democrats when other people came out. They didn't do that with President Obama with the church, the horrible situation with the church. They didn't do that. They put my name in the headlines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us is someone who was targeted by one of those mail bombs. Billionaire Democratic donor and founder of NextGen America, Tom Steyer. Good morning, Mr. Steyer.

TOM STEYER, FOUNDER, NEXTGEN AMERICA & NEED TO IMPEACH: Alisyn, it's nice to speak to you.

CAMEROTA: Nice to have you on the program. What did you think when you learned that you were the recipient of one of those package bombs?

STEYER: Well, I mean, I had -- my first response was that I was worried for the safety of the people I worked with and my family. And the second thing I thought was that the -- I was very grateful to the postal workers and the police who did a great job of intercepting all the bombs and of arresting the suspect really, really fast.

So I felt as if the system really worked. The people did their jobs extremely well. I was grateful to them and I wanted to make sure the people who I work with and love were safe.

CAMEROTA: What do you think when you hear the president say that he doesn't understand, as we just played, that the people that he has verbally or on Twitter targeted were then the targets of bombs?

STEYER: Listen, this is a president who has created an atmosphere of hate, who has continued to demonize people after all of these violent events, who has created an atmosphere of lawlessness both by his extreme rhetoric but also by his behavior and his disrespect for law. And I think it doesn't really matter, honestly, Alisyn, what he says because what he does is so obviously wrong and what he does has led to this breakdown in terms of civil society.

So I -- I really don't listen to what the president has to say. I just watch what he does and it's very consistent.

CAMEROTA: Just one last thing on what the president says, because this one was directed to you. He -- this was on Twitter. Just watched whacky Tom Steyer, who I have not seen in action before, be interviewed by Jake Tapper. He comes off as a crazed and stumbling lunatic who should be running out of money pretty soon. As bad as their field (ph) is, if he is running for president, the Dems will eat him alive. He really opened the thesaurus on you there. You got a lot of different insults.

And do you respond to that? I mean in these toxic times, does this require a response or do you let it go or what's your reaction?

STEYER: I think what I did that day was -- on Twitter was to say to the president, you should not be spending your time insulting me. You should be spending your time being the president of the United States. Do your job, man. Your job is to pull the country together, and you can't do it. So I don't think there's any point in getting into the gutter with a guttersnipe. I think the only thing we can do at a very tough time is tell the truth and try to stand up for the American people, two things that he is unable to do.

CAMEROTA: All right. So that leads us to what action you are going to take. After the midterms, are you considering a run for president?

STEYER: Alisyn, I have said repeatedly, we are running what I believe is the largest grass roots organization in the United States to try and make sure that especially young Americans between 18 and 35 participate in our Democracy next Tuesday. We -- none of us knows -- you don't know, I don't know, the pollsters don't know what's going to happen in the midterm elections. What I have promised is that I will be working as hard as I possibly can for social justice and prosperity in the United States on November 7th and going forward.

And the best way to do it, I don't know.

[08:25:00] I can promise you I am willing to do whatever it takes, along with all the other people in America who are working for justice to try and get this country back on track and to take it away from this radical group of right-wingers who perverted our democracy and really are doing what they can to ruin our country.

CAMEROTA: You've spent a lot of money and energy on this ad campaign to impeach President Trump. And i just wonder if that does speak to people in the middle who -- who, at least on the panels that I've held, have said that that sounds sort of messy and time-consuming and that that might be jumping the shark.

STEYER: Well let me say this. It is messy. And it is it is time- consuming. But it is the remedy that the founders gave us for a reckless, dangerous and lawless president. And what we've got is just that, the most corrupt president in American history. So what we're watching this week is the breakdown in the rule of law in the United States of America. And that's exactly what we've been trying to address by enlisting Americans.

And by the way, more Americans support us than don't. More Americans are in favor of the impeachment and removal of this president than are against it. So it's not a fringe movement.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STEYER: What -- this is the remedy they gave us when things get out of control. And by the way, things are out of control. We are in a crisis and it's -- it's messy. Of course it is. Are we happy about it? I'm not happy about it one bit. But I'm willing to tell the truth, and i think i'm willing to stand up along with six million other people who've signed the petition to say we can't deny the truth, we need to stand up for the safety and health of the American people and for the constitution. And that's what we're doing.

CAMEROTA: The White House -- the press secretary, Sara Sanders has tried to suggest at the briefing yesterday that the president's words don't matter as much as, i guess, cable news pundits words or that, you know, he shouldn't be held responsible for the climate that has incited this violence. Do you think the president should be held responsible for this wave of violence that we saw last week?

STEYER: Look, he's part of an entire system. He's the leading part. The idea that the words of the president don't matter is on its face silly. I think it was Teddy Roosevelt who described what the president has as the bully pulpit. Actually, what the president -- almost the biggest function of the president is to explain the world to the American people. Of course his words matter dramatically. Any other suggestion, honestly, that's just silly.

CAMEROTA: Tom Steyer. We appreciate getting your perspective. Thank you very much for being on NEW DAY.

STEYER: Alisyn, thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: John. BERMAN: It could be the silent wave in the midterm elections. The

races no one is talking about. Which races? Oh, we put the word on. i gave it away. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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