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Wolf

Roger Stone Beefs Up Legal Team, Says He Took Polygraph; Trump Scolds, Says Paul Ryan Knows Nothing about 14th Amendment; Veterans Slam Trump for Sending Troops to Border for "Stunt"; Officials 70 Percent Sure "Pings" Detected are From Lion Flight Recorders; Saudi Sisters Found Dead, Bound Together on Hudson River Shore; Istanbul Chief Prosecutor: Khashoggi Killing Was Planned. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 31, 2018 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] KIM WEHLE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Presumably, because of this non-binding DOJ guidance to not have a lot of action prior to an election. But Roger Stone, as far as we know, has not been called to interview by the special counsel, which suggests he could be a target, meaning a top person they might potentially indict --

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: They can't wait to talk to him.

WEHLE: Correct. This is a person that, this issue is, we're not talking out of obstruction of justice or money laundering crimes, we're talking the core issue of Russia interference in the election. And Mr. Stone, by his own account, had some communications with Guccifer, the hackers that according to the Mueller indictment were behind -- Russian were behind that and, secondly, of course, had communications allegedly with WikiLeaks, which came out prior to the election and did impact Hillary Clinton's election potential.

BLITZER: Let me get your reaction to another legal issue. The president of the United States going after, on a tweet, a little while ago, the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, saying that Paul Ryan doesn't know what he's talking about. Let me read the tweet for you once again, "Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the majority rather than giving his opinions on birthright citizenship, something he knows nothing about. Our new Republican majority will work on this, closing immigration loopholes and securing our border."

Yesterday, the president said, in an interview with Axios, he can sign an executive order, simply sign his name, and it would change what has been seen as the 14th Amendment to the Constitution for 150 years, and if children are born in the United States, they're automatically U.S. citizens.

WEHLE: I'm also a constitutional law professor. There are a lot of constitutional questions looming around right now. This is not one of them. It's clear in the 14th Amendment. It was enacted in response to a terrible decision in which the Supreme Court held that children of former slaves at that time could in the be citizens because slaves were property. The framers of the Constitution passed the 14th Amendment. There's plain language that undermines what is the president is stating. In addition, we have a Supreme Court state in which the court held that Chinese immigrant's children were American citizens. We have a federal statute that also reiterates this concept.

So executive orders, they're kind of a little bit of a grey area in the Constitution. By no means could the president unilaterally amend the Constitution. This is a real fraud on the American public.

BLITZER: If he doesn't like that birthright citizenship clause in the 14th Amendment, there's one way he could change it.

WEHLE: Yes. That would be amending the Constitution.

BLITZER: Right.

WEHLE: And that would open up --

BLITZER: Two-thirds majority in the House and the Senate, the States, two-thirds would have to ratify it. That's how you change the U.S. Constitution. You can't change it by signing an executive order.

WEHLE: Absolutely no way. There are ambiguities in the Constitution. When there are ambiguities in the Constitution, there are various ways of filling that gap. Arguably, it could be an executive order. Usually, it's a Supreme Court decision. This is not ambiguous. This is black and white. Former Justice Scalia would say plain language, we apply the plain language, which is actually a conservative approach to the Constitution. A conservative approach to the Constitution is you read the language. There's no ambiguity here. There's no role for the president at all to fill it in.

BLITZER: He is raising this issue for political reasons a week before the election. He thinks it will help generate support, rile up that base to get out and vote next Tuesday in the midterm elections.

WEHLE: I think so. And that's sort of a sad state of affairs for our political system and our democracy, where lies about foundational documents are what is coming out of the White House that will affect an election rather than policy decisions that affect individual voter's lives.

BLITZER: Kim Wehle, thank you very much.

WEHLE: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Ramping up the base. With less than a week until voting, today, President Trump doubles down on immigration rhetoric, targeting, as we have been reporting, birthright citizens, sending troops to the border. Now veterans are slamming the move. I'm speak with one of them.

And what caused that Lion flight to crash into the sea, killing 189 people? Officials says officials may be finding out more information. They may be closing in on the information. We are going live to Indonesia. [13:34:01] Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Trump tweeting today on one of his favorite campaign topics, Central America refugees heading through Mexico, supposedly towards the United States. And he says, and I am quoting the president now, "Our military is being mobilized at the southern border. Many more troops coming. We will not let these caravans, which are also made up of some very bad thugs and gang members, into the United States.

The administration sees the deployment of more than 5,000 U.S. troops to the border as a message. But is it a message to the refugees, who are a thousand miles from the border, many of whom are returning back home or accepting asylum in Mexico, or is it a message from the president to his political base and voters he is hoping to attract on Tuesday?

Joining us, retired U.S. Army Brigadier General Dave McGinnis, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense. He served as an infantryman in Vietnam among other places.

Thank you, General, for joining us.

I know you helped organize the U.S. Army National Guard. What is your reaction? I take it you disagree with this deployment decision by the president?

DAVID MCGINNIS, RETIRED BRIGADIER GENERAL, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Thank you, Wolf. Yes, I do. I think it's totally inappropriate. I have been discussing this over the last two or three days with many of my retired colleagues from a number of services who have served at the senior level at the Department of Defense. We don't see the crisis that justifies the use of the federal military in this situation. The president has a number of options --

(CROSSTALK)

[13:40:13] BLITZER: Yes, go ahead.

MCGINNIS: -- Open to him before he makes -- he chooses the option of the federal military.

BLITZER: He's the commander-in-chief. If he tells the secretary of defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, do it, they have no choice, right?

MCGINNIS: They have no choice and they have to execute the order. The question is the appropriateness of the order, which is something that Congress is going to have to deal with down the road. Using the federal military to enforce domestic civil laws in the United States is prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act. That's the first point that needs to be made here. The second thing is the rhetoric associated with this. All the

published statements I've read talk about hardening certain points on the border and then go on to talk about, well, they're going to provide support functions for the Border Patrol and the ICE folks. You can't have both. And when you talk about hardening points on the border, you are talking about enforcing federal immigration laws. That, again, brings about Posse Comitatus.

There was a GAO report in 2012 discussing and evaluating for Congress a number of excursions with the act of the military and the guard on the border. There's a provision for that. The provision is only under enforcement of the drug laws, but not for the enforcement of other laws. GAO brought up many of the concerns that myself -- in that report that myself and my colleagues have.

BLITZER: So what other options do you think the president had? He is obviously concerned about these individuals moving up through Mexico and trying to come into the United States?

MCGINNIS: Well, the first option he had was he use other federal law enforcement officers to reinforce the Border Patrol. He has an option to do that with certain members of the federal law enforcement community.

The second thing is, he doesn't really understand how to use the National Guard in a civil role. The National Guard, as we know it and have come to know it since the end of World War II, is a reserve of the Army or the Air Force. However, it's also the organized militia. The organized militia has the constitutional authority to enact the laws of the union. So if he would simply take the National Guard and call it in for federal service, not as a reserve of the Army or the Air Force, he's got 500,000 potential additional law enforcement officers he could put on the border. That's really from a constitutional stand point and a legal standpoint what he should be doing.

BLITZER: Because some have pointed to President Obama's decision ordering about 1,200 National Guard troops to the border back in 2010. You remember that?

MCGINNIS: I remember that. I was in the building. I was in the secretariat when we did that. We did it under Title 32, which places them as the organized militia in federal service so they could enforce laws and they wouldn't violate Posse Comitatus and they wouldn't violate any other statutes.

In addition, when we use the National Guard, people around the world and even in Mexico understand the difference between our National Guard and our regular forces. And by sending regular forces in there, we're sending a very, very strong message that we want to militarize a lot of our activities that are normally civil. That's not a good message to send to Mexico or all throughout the Americas. It's just a bad message.

BLITZER: General McGinnis, thank you for joining us. Thanks for your service. MCGINNIS: You are welcome, Wolf. Thank you.

BLITZER: Children's shoes, wallets, backpacks. Loved ones are sifting through the remains of the Lion Air flight that plunged into the sea. Nearly 200 people dead.

[13:44:01] And an investigation is under way after two sisters from Saudi Arabia were found dead, bound together, by New York City's waterfront. Stay with us. We'll have a live report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We have a significant update right now out of Indonesia where crews have been searching for the downed Lion Air flight 610. Investigators say they're 70 percent sure the transponder pings they've detected are coming from the flight recorders. The brand-new Boeing airliner has been missing since Monday after it plunged into the Java Sea, killing all 189 people on board. Investigators have been able to find debris, personal belongings and even the remains of some of the victims. But the flight recorders will be key in providing desperate family members with answers.

Our senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson, is joining us now from the main port in Jakarta where search-and-rescue workers are bringing back debris from the plane.

Ivan, when do investigators think they'll be able to retrieve the flight recorders, the data recorders?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They say they're very confident that that ping they're hearing every second, Wolf, is the underwater location beacon of the flight data recorder. And they say they're homing in on it but were hampered by fast currents underwater. They're operating at depths of up to 100 feet. That's where the ocean bottom is. That's where they think the flight data recorders are and the main fuselage of the plane itself.

[13:50:00] As you mentioned, they have been bringing up debris, personal effects. And we've seen some very emotional scenes. A 52- year-old man reduced to tear, instantly weeping at the sight of his 24-year-old son's black sneaker mixed in here among the other personal belongings that they've fished out of the Java Sea after this terrible disaster.

This investigation is going on as to why this brand-new Boeing 737 hit the ocean so soon after take-off on Monday. We've learned from the head of Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee that there was a malfunction on one of the instruments of the plane the night before the doomed flight. They've interviewed the pilot for that penultimate flight, and they're trying to learn more. They've ruled out weather being a contributing factor to the crash. They've ruled out the runway. They're now investigating the airplane itself, the pilots, and the low-budget Indonesian air company operator, Lion Air -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Boeing 737, one of the most popular planes in the world. They've got to figure out what happened.

Ivan Watson, thank you very much.

Meanwhile, there's a very grisly story coming out of New York City. New York Police are looking for clues after two sisters from Saudi Arabia were found dead, tied together, in the Hudson River.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:41] BLITZER: All right, this just in to CNN. A federal grand jury has returned a 44-count indictment against the suspect in the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre. The charges include obstruction of free exercise of religious beliefs resulting in death and use and discharge of a firearm to commit murder during and in relation to a crime of violence. Robert Bowers had his first court appearance Monday and is due back in federal court tomorrow.

Other news, New York City police detectives are trying to unravel a mystery. They have identified two sisters found dead along the Hudson River, Saudi Arabian citizens. Now they're trying to piece together what happened to them. The young women were bound together with duct tape. Their bodies found on the banks of the river last week.

Our national correspondent, Athena Jones, joins us from New York.

Athena, what more have you learned about this investigation, this mystery that stretches all the way to northern Virginia, outside of Washington, where these young women were living?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. We're getting bits and pieces from the New York City Police Department. The chief of detectives said they're making significant progress here. Detectives have been in Virginia interviewing family members and others to try to piece together what went on in these two sisters; last few weeks and months together.

The two sisters are Tala Farea, 16 years old, and her 22-year-old sister, Rotana Farea -- is the one wearing the head covering. Tala Farea was reported missing back at the end of August, August 24th. It's unclear where the sisters have been in the last couple of months and several other details they're pulling together. The New York Police Department said they're looking at these two-month gaps and these interviews are helping them figure out what these sisters are up to. They haven't shared it yet. But they also haven't said yet if they're treating this as a homicide. There were several theories they were testing out. They haven't said if they were treating this as a murder. The consulate will be following this, of course. The Saudi consulate in New York described the two girls as students accompanying their brother in Washington. A big mystery here -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Hopefully, they'll figure it out. Sad story, indeed.

Thanks very much, Athena Jones, in New York.

Meanwhile, another story we're following, "a premeditated murder." That's what Turkish investigators are saying about the death of the "Washington Post" journalist, Jamal Khashoggi.

Our Jomana Karadsheh is live to Istanbul, Turkey.

Jomana, what are you hearing from Turkish investigators?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you know, after weeks of those leaks, the drip feed of leaks we've been getting from Turkish officials here, this is the first time the Turkish authorities, the chief prosecutor for Istanbul, who is overseeing the investigation into the death of Jamal Khashoggi, came out with this official statement on where their investigation stands now. They say on October the 2nd, shortly after Jamal Khashoggi entered the building behind me, the Saudi consulate here in Istanbul, he was strangled to death immediately. His body was dismembered and destroyed. It's unclear what that means.

Now, there are so many other questions that remain unanswered, and Turkish authorities say the questions they want answered by Saudi Arabia, is, where is the body of Jamal Khashoggi or his remains and who issued the orders to that hit squad that carried out the killing.

They were hoping to get these answers, Wolf, this week from the chief prosecutor for Saudi Arabia, who is here on a visit for the past three days, but they don't seem to have those answers, according to a senior Turkish official who told CNN today, he said it seems the Saudis were more interested in finding out what evidence Turkey has than genuinely cooperating with this investigation -- Wolf?

BLITZER: It doesn't look, Jomana, like there's much cooperation between the Turkish authorities and the Saudis, is that right?

KARADSHEH: That seems to be the case. This is something that has really frustrated Turkish officials here. And there has been this hope, they've been waiting for the United States really to put pressure on the Saudis to try and get the answers, and so far it doesn't seem like the United States, at least publicly, is putting enough pressure on Saudi Arabia -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Jomana, we'll stay in close touch with you. Thank you very much.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

"NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.