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Trump Shocks with New Ad Days before Midterms; Lion Air Flight 610 Landing Gear, Data Recorder Found; Google Walkout; Khashoggi Murder Case; Police Piece Together Details in Death of Saudi Sisters; Israel Steps Up Relations with Gulf Arab Nations. Aired 12m-1a ET

Aired November 2, 2018 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): President Trump gives U.S. troops his approval to open fire on rock-throwing migrants. The latest fiery comment to fire up his supporters, just days before congressional elections.

Plus new clues coming from the bottom of the sea. Officials now piecing together how and why that Lion Air flight crashed.

And later, two Saudi sisters taped together, found dead on the banks of New York's Hudson River. The latest surrounding the mystery of their death.

Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause and you're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

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VAUSE: In a rambling, factually challenged speech from the White House on Thursday, president Donald Trump promised to crack down on an immigration crisis which does not seem to exist.

Just hours later he took the same message to a campaign rally, telling supporters that a so-called caravan of migrants heading from Central America is filled with tough people and not little angels. And then to loud cheers and applause, he promised undocumented migrants will not be allowed into the United States, through big changes to the asylum process which will make claiming asylum much harder, giving U.S. troops free rein to open fire on migrants who throw stones.

All of this appears to be part of the president's plan to stoke fear in immigrants and to energize his supporters to turn out and vote in midterm congressional elections now just five days away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hundreds of thousands of children born to illegal immigrants are made automatic citizens of the United States every year because of this crazy lunatic policy that we can end, that we can end. We need support but we can end. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Before traveling to Missouri for that rally, White House aides said the president would deliver a major policy announcement from the Roosevelt Room. It was not a policy announcement but instead, for almost 30 minutes, Donald Trump played fast and loose with the truth in a speech that was beyond grievance (ph), short on fact and laden with politics. Kaitlan Collins has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Immigration and playing up fear just five days before the midterm election.

TRUMP: They are rushing our border.

COLLINS: In a talk late today at the White House that was billed as a presidential address, but devolved into a stump speech, the president took on what he called the immigration crisis, revealing no new information, proposing no new changes and claiming he would sign an executive order next week without offering any specifics.

It seemed to be another effort by the president to put immigration front and center in the midterm elections. In the final weeks, the president has not only claimed he will end birthright citizenship.

TRUMP: Now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order.

COLLINS: But also promised to deploy thousands of troops to the southern border to stop a caravan that's weeks away, build tent cities for those seeking asylum and posted an online video showing an illegal immigrant bragging about killing police officers.

Those tweets --

[00:05:00]

COLLINS (voice-over): -- are considered official White House statements. And the move is drawn comparisons to the racist Willie Horton ads supporting George H.W. Bush in his 1988 campaign.

TRUMP: We're getting prepared for the caravan, folks. You don't have to worry about that. Getting prepared for the caravan.

COLLINS: The president back in campaign mode this week, delivering a scorching message last night in Florida, hoping to amplify voters' fears about immigration.

TRUMP: Got a lot of rough people in those caravans. They are not angels. They are not.

COLLINS: Trump trying to make a caravan of Central American migrants the central issue in the midterms.

TRUMP: A Democrat victory on Election Day would be a bright, flashing invitation to traffickers, smugglers, drug dealers and gang members all over the world, come on in.

COLLINS: In an interview that same night, Trump claiming to ABC News that the caravan is bigger than people think and mostly made up of young men.

TRUMP: They can't invade our country.

COLLINS: But the president provided zero evidence to back up his claims, which he made despite reports showing the caravan has dwindled in size from 7,000 to 3,500 and includes men, women and children fleeing violence and poverty.

Trump, who said this on the campaign trail in 2016:

TRUMP: I will never lie to you.

COLLINS: Was asked if he's kept that promise.

TRUMP: I do try and I always want to tell the truth. When I can, I tell the truth. Sometimes, it is turns out where something happens, it's different or there's a change, but I always like to be truthful.

COLLINS: Now President Trump is going to take that message about immigration on the road tonight, starting with a rally in Missouri but finishing with nine more of those similar rallies before voters go to the polls on Tuesday -- Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Michael Genovese is the president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University and the author of "How Trump Governs." He is with us from Los Angeles.

Good to see you.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you, John.

VAUSE: We were told the event in the Roosevelt Room would be a policy announcement, not to be confused with a political rally, like the one in Missouri. So we put together some contrasting clips from each event just to make that distinction. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What they did to the Mexican military in breaking through the border, these are tough people.

Unbelievably rough people. Very, very hard for the military to stop it. Our military will have no problem.

Democrats want higher taxes, much higher taxes. Republicans want strong borders, no crime, no chaos and no caravan.

You can come up with the greatest border plan, the greatest immigration plan. You won't get one vote from a Democrat. They have terrible policy. In many cases, they're terrible politicians. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Calling the event in the Roosevelt Room a policy event was a giant serving of applesauce from White House aides. Just because the president uses his indoor voice does not make it a policy announcement. It's clearly a strategy here.

GENOVESE: It was one big, long, quite often ugly, free campaign ad for 30 minutes that he tricked the media into putting on live. Normally what a presidential team does is they say this is important. It's national news. We'll need to put it on. You need to cover it.

In this case, you were all misled. You were led down the garden path. And the president did a wonderful television commercial for his campaign and for his efforts at the border. So it was a win-win for President Trump and it was vintage Trump.

VAUSE: Just a few days now before the midterm election.

Has the president now put all of his political eggs into the anti- immigration basket?

And if there is a closing argument, just to paraphrase and to sum it up, it would be, be afraid, be very afraid.

GENOVESE: Well, Trump only knows one speed and one strategy. The speed is full speed ahead, and the strategy is attack, weaponize your rhetoric, go after the enemies, create enemies, instill fear, show them that you're going to go in there, you're going to set the fire but then you're going to put out the fire for them.

So you create a faux crisis. If this is an existential crisis for the United States, 3,500 people, most of them women and children, then we are much weaker than I thought and the president is much less competent than I had hoped. This can't be seen as a crisis, an invasion, as the president puts it.

But he ups the rhetoric and he ups the stakes so that then he can look really tough by putting 15,000 troops at the border for 3,500 people. We're a much better country than that.

VAUSE: More troops potentially going the border than in Afghanistan.

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VAUSE: But if we take a look at the polling, especially a new CNN poll out in Florida, which shows the race, which appears to be breaking towards the Republicans in the Senate, the Democrat Bill Nelson, he was up 4 points, now he's up just 2 points.

The governor, the Democrat, Andrew Gillum, he had a 12-point lead. He's now lost 11 points, now just 1 point up.

And the president's approval rating in Florida, in Florida, it's up. His disapproval numbers are down.

So are we at the point where it's a little too simplistic to suggest this strategy by the president is working, at least in Florida?

GENOVESE: No, I think it is working. I think this is his strategy. It's his game plan. It's the one thing he does well. He doesn't do sympathy well. He doesn't do leadership well. So he did very poorly at the synagogue in Pittsburgh and he does poorly in most of the things you expect a president to do.

But what he does well is he goes on the attack. He goes for the jugular. He likes that. That's who he is. And the Florida races are fascinating because they're kind of the canary in the coal mine for us.

What happens in Florida is going to be an indication of whether we're going to have an early night and go to bed, knowing what the outcome is going to be, or there is going to be a long night. If the Democrats win both races in Florida or if the Republicans do, that's going to tell you a lot about whose going to win nationally for that day.

And so there is going to be a lot of early races -- Florida, house races in Virginia, Tennessee race, I think the Georgia governor's race. All of those are going to be decided early and they're going to tell us whether Trump's strategy, which has worked very well in the past, works again.

It undermines, I think, the values of America but it might just work electorally.

VAUSE: There is also the situation in Iowa with the Republican congressman Steve King. New polls show he has just a 1-point lead in what is normally a safe GOP district. On Thursday, he was left outraged when someone in the audience asked him if he was a white nationalist. This was part of his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You and the shooter both share an ideology that is anti-immigration.

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Do not associate me with that shooter. I knew you were an ambusher when you walked in the room but there is no basis for that. You get no questions, no answers. No, we're done. You don't play these games here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was about to ask you about --

KING: No. You crossed the line. It's not tolerable to accuse me to be associated with a guy that shot 11 people in Pittsburgh. I am a person who is linked to Israel from the beginning. I will not answer your question. I'll not listen to another word from you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: King has a long record of making racist and bigoted statements. He put out a tweet just last month, supporting a white supremacist politician in Canada. He has posted Halloween images on his Facebook page, which mock diversity.

And then there is a confederate flag which he displays on his desk, even though his state, Iowa, was actually part of the Union.

Is this outrage that we're seeing from King, a sign that maybe the tide is turning, at least in some parts of Trump country?

It's time maybe to put the hoods back on and take these kind of outrageous statements and go back underground again?

GENOVESE: Well, as you mentioned, King has long been a far, far right wing sponsor of all kinds of bizarre conspiracy theories. He should have been, from day one, an embarrassment to the Republican Party. Only now, because there is a highlight of some of these really ugly things that he said, has it come really to the attention of a national audience.

The fact that he's in a tight race, I think, says a lot. It says that while the strategy of amping up anger may be very good nationally, they're there are going to be places where the people are simply going to turn on it and say we've had enough. We can't take anymore of this.

So the fact that King is somewhat vulnerable, I think he'll probably win. But that he is that vulnerable says, I think, says that there is a reaction, I think, and a turning perhaps nationally.

And if that's the case and the Democrats can get out the vote by women, by Hispanics, they could do an incredibly good job on turning around both the House and maybe, but I doubt it, the Senate.

VAUSE: Michael, it is going to be an incredibly fascinating night to watch. It will either end with a Trump mandate or an end to his presidency. At this point, we just don't know which one. So thank you for being with us.

GENOVESE: Looks like a split decision, Democrats, the House; Republicans, the Senate.

VAUSE: We'll see how it goes. Thanks, Michael.

GENOVESE: Thank you, John.

VAUSE: Please join CNN for our coverage of the U.S. midterm elections. The whole shebang kicks off just before the close of the polls and will continue for however long it takes until all the results are known and that could be a really, really, really long time.

Well, divers in Indonesia have found the landing gear and a large section of the fuselage of Lion Air Flight 610 in the Java Sea but, most importantly, they've also recovered the flight data recorder. Officials hope it will tell them why the plane crashed just minutes after takeoff from Jakarta --

[00:15:00] VAUSE: -- on Monday, killing all 189 people on board. Will Ripley joins me live from Hong Kong with more on this.

Will, has it been confirmed that it is the flight data recorder, which is the black box, as opposed to the cockpit voice recorder, which is crucial but they'll have very different information about the moments leading up to the crash?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The flight data recorder records things like altitude, speed, direction, whether the fire alarm went off on the plane. If there was a mechanical problem the flight data recorder should help investigators identify it.

But it takes two to three weeks to extract that information and two to three months to analyze it. It's going to be quite a while before the families of the 189 people on board have answers.

The cockpit voice recorder will record those conversations between the two pilots, who Indonesian authorities just yesterday described as smart and funny and nice and they believe that the pilots struggled to save that plane, a plane that perhaps had a catastrophic malfunction of some kind, especially given the reports that we're getting from the same plane on the flight from Bali to Jakarta just the night before, where passengers were terrified when the plane suddenly dropped 400 feet.

It also seemed to passengers like it was having problems taking off, problems getting up to altitude. Certainly not the kind of plane, John, that I would want to get on just one day later.

Even Lion Air says the technicians repaired the problem. It should tell you something, though, that the airline's technical director has been fired and is now under investigation, along with a number of other technicians and several other officials in the company have been asked to temporarily step down as Indonesian authorities continue investigating.

VAUSE: OK, Will, thank you. Will Ripley there with the very latest on the search for answers on that Lion Air jet crash on Monday.

Thanks, Will.

From the United States to Asia, thousands of Google employees walked off the job to protest how the tech giant has dealt with allegations of sexual misconduct. Workers say they wanted to highlight what they say is a destructive culture within the company.

This followed a "New York Times" report detailing years of harassment and a lack of transparency in a number of cases. We have more now details from CNN's Hadas Gold.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Google employees around the world, from Singapore to Dublin, Zurich to New York and here in London, walked out on the job today in protest of how the company handles allegations of sexual harassment.

This comes in the aftermath of a damning "New York Times" report that said Google kept quiet about several executives who were accused of sexual harassment and resigned as a result, some of them even getting millions of dollars in severance packages.

Protesters that we spoke to here said they were calling on their company to have more accountability and transparency when it comes to sexual harassment allegations. They want Google to release a sexual harassment report, look into all the allegations at the company in the last few years and what the company did with it.

Here's what one protester told us about why he was walking out on the job today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM DUTTON, DEVELOPER ADVOCATE, GOOGLE: We're walking out in support of those who have been harassed anywhere in the workplace and to ensure that perpetrators are not rewarded and they're not protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: Now the employees told us that they were supported by management in their walkouts and Google CEO Sundar Pichai said in a statement earlier this week, "We let Googlers know that we are aware of the activities planned for today and that the employees will have the support they need if they wish to participate."

Pichai went on in the statement to say that the company planned to take in all the feedback and the criticism and turn into it action. The question for the employees who walked out today is what that action will look like and whether it will be enough -- Hadas Gold, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: New developments in the mystery of two Saudi sisters found dead, tied together and found on the banks of a New York river. What officials are saying about the events which led up to their death. We'll have that story when we come back.

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VAUSE: Almost a month now since the Saudi journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, has seen alive. And among the unanswered questions, where is his body?

According to "The Washington Post," Turkish investigators are looking at the possibility it was dissolved in acid. "The Post" also reports the Saudi crown prince described Khashoggi as "a dangerous Islamist" during discussions with White House officials just days after he disappeared.

We get details now from CNN's Alex Marquardt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A new theory has arisen about what happened to the body of journalist Jamal Khashoggi after he was killed at the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul.

Now as if this story couldn't get any darker, according to "The Washington Post," the Turks are now pursuing a theory that suggests that Khashoggi's Saudi murderers dissolved his body in acid and then disposed of it on the grounds of the consulate or nearby the consulate general's residence.

The Turks have said that Khashoggi was strangled to death and dismembered; one official telling "The Post" that the body, as it were, did not need to be buried. The Saudis have said it was handed off to a local collaborator but there's no evidence that that person even exists.

The State Department said on Thursday that Khashoggi's remains should be returned to his family for proper burial but didn't answer the question of whether the Saudis actually know where the remains are.

Now we should just highlight how important it is in Islam to have a quick and proper burial. So as if this wasn't bad enough that senior Saudi government officials carried out a premeditated murder of Khashoggi, they couldn't even offer the body to his family.

Now "The Washington Post" is also reporting that, in a phone call between crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, also known as MBS, senior adviser Jared Kushner and national security adviser John Bolton, that MBS told the Americans that Khashoggi was a dangerous Islamist and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now this comes after the Saudi ambassador here in Washington called Khashoggi a friend who, quote, "dedicated a great portion of his life to serve his country."

Clearly, the crown prince felt that by labeling Khashoggi a Muslim brother, that would make the U.S. less inclined to support him. There is no evidence that Khashoggi was in the Brotherhood when he died and he certainly was not known as a dangerous Islamist; now that denial was also made by Khashoggi's family -- Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: And we're learning more details about two sisters from Saudi Arabia, found dead near the Hudson River in New York. Investigators now say they know of more crucial details leading up to their deaths. CNN's Athena Jones has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there. New details in this disturbing story of these two Saudi sisters, found bound together on the banks of the Hudson River here in New York last week. New York police detectives have been saying they've been making significant progress in this case.

We know the detectives traveled down to the state of Virginia, where these two sisters had been living, some 250 miles away. They conducted a number of interviews with immediate family members and with others. And now we're learning that the New York Police Department is not yet ready to say what caused these sisters' deaths.

Authorities are investigating the possibility of a suicide, a homicide or even an accident. That's according to the NYPD's Deputy Commissioner for Public Information.

Earlier we'd heard from a law enforcement official that they believe that this was a suicide but the New York Police Department wants to make it clear that they're investigating all possibilities in this case.

Investigators haven't uncovered anything that suggests there was foul play or that this was a potential honor killing. We know that the bodies of these two sisters showed no signs of trauma --

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JONES (voice-over): -- and that there was water found in their lungs, which suggests that they were alive when they entered the water.

We're going to get more information from the chief medical examiner, who is looking into doing the forensic reports, an autopsy report and a toxicology report, to get more information there.

There is no known nexus to Saudi Arabia at this point, according to this official and this official says that, over the course of this investigation, it has become evident that these sisters did not want to return to Saudi Arabia.

There has been some question over this issue of asylum as well. "The New York Times," citing police, says the sisters -- says the sisters' mother was called by the Saudi embassy in Washington and informed that her daughters had applied for asylum.

I spoke with a Saudi official, who told me the Saudis are aware of reports of these sisters having applied for asylum but told me embassy officials haven't communicated with the family about that issue and they're still looking into whether the sisters, in fact, applied for asylum.

So still a lot of questions about these two sisters but that is the latest we're hearing from here. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Athena Jones, thank you.

The old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and it seems to describe the warming relations between Israel and some Gulf Arab nations, driven in no small part by their mutual animosity towards Iran. The Gulf States are reluctant to acknowledge the growing ties but as Oren Liebermann reports, it's not easy to keep your new bestie under wraps.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The biggest sign in recent weeks of the warming relations between Israel and the Arab states is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Oman, where he met the Omani sultan. But that's certainly not the only sign of tectonic shifts here is in the Middle East.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Israel's national anthem, "Hatikvah," playing for the first time in Abu Dhabi as Israeli athletes won gold at an international judo tournament. Last year, Israeli athletes had to complete under a generic flag. Now, the country's culture minister moved to tears.

It's just one sign of warming relations between Israel and the gulf Arab states.

On Friday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made an unannounced visit to Oman for the first time in more than 20 years. Afterwards, Oman's foreign minister saying Israel should be treated like a state.

Netanyahu called the trip historic.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This visit comes against the background of diplomatic efforts that have been promoting in recent years vis-a-vis the Arab countries. There will be more.

LIEBERMANN: Israel's communications minister is now in Dubai for a conference and the country's transportation minister is preparing for his own trip to Oman next week. President Donald Trump's special envoy, Jason Greenblatt, tweeting: In the last few days, we have seen our regional partners, Oman, Bahrain and the UAE make statements and/or gestures signaling warmer ties with Israel. A more stable region leads to a stronger and more prosperous region. It is good for all.

The warming relations are driven by mutual struggle against Iran. Netanyahu has been, perhaps, the most vocal critic of the Iran nuclear deal, lauding President Donald Trump's withdrawal from the accord. Netanyahu has quietly had the backing of the Gulf Arab states.

The growing relations have come not because of an Israeli-Palestinian peace process but despite the lack of one. The Palestinians aren't happy about the change in relations with Israel but haven't been able to stop them.

The big question here is of course the Saudis.

Does Israel have relations with Saudi Arabia, the biggest, the most powerful, arguably the most influential Gulf state?

There have certainly been reports of dealings between the two of them, including trade deals for Israeli tech. But neither side has ever confirmed that such relations exist -- Oren Liebermann, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Well, still to come here, ahead of the midterm elections, Donald Trump cracking down on immigration. Tough new rules for asylum seekers, authorizing U.S. troops to open fire on rock-throwing migrants.

But is any of this legal?

We'll discuss.

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[00:30:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. I'm John Vause with an update of the top news this hour. President Trump is increasing his attacks on undocumented migrants at a campaign rally in the U.S. state of Missouri.

He reminded supporters he wants to sign an Executive Order which would remove the right to citizenship for children of noncitizens born in the U.S. His remarks part of an overall strategy to rile up the base before next week's midterm elections.

The Saudi news says the Saudi-linked coalition has destroyed a number of ballistic missile sites used by Houthi rebels in Sanaa, in Yemen. Houthi-run television says Sanaa International Airport was also targeted. Saudi coalition spokesman says they followed international law during the military operation.

Cuba's President, Miguel Diaz-Canel, is in Moscow for his first official visit since assuming office, back in April. Just a few hours from now, he is expected to meet with the Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Kremlin says the two leaders will discuss possible military cooperation.

U.S. President Donald Trump says his administration is now finalizing a plan to change the asylum system, as he focuses on (INAUDIBLE) ahead of the key midterm elections. In a campaign rally in Missouri on Thursday, he told supporters that a caravan of migrants from Central America, are tough people, not little angels, and he promised they would not be allowed into the U.S.

Defense Lawyer David Katz is with us now, from New York. David is also Former Assistant U.S. Attorney for Los Angeles, appointed during the Reagan administration, David, good to see you.

DAVID KATZ, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT ATTORNEY: Great to be with you. VAUSE: Well, OK, I want you to listen to the President, explaining why he believes there is this urgent need to change the current process for asylum seekers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The biggest loophole drawing illegal aliens to our borders is, the use of fraudulent or meritless asylum claims to gain entry into our great country.

An alien simply crosses the border illegally, finds a border patrol agent, and using well-coached language by lawyers and others, they're given a little legal statement to read, and they read it. And now, all of the sudden, they're supposed to qualify, but that's not the reason they're here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: You know, that sounds like the stuff you hear on, you know, Conservative talk radio. They utter a few magic words and asylum is granted. That doesn't seem to be even close to the reality of what happens most days.

KATZ: What President Trump said is completely fanciful. I mean, the reality that these poor migrants who come here, looking to make a living, to somehow find a job, the idea that they're coached by lawyers, if there's someone whose, you know, accompanied this caravan, it's because it's a Fox reporter to report on all of this and to take pictures of it and a few other reporters.

The idea that they're coached by lawyers, so that they have access to lawyers and they have a pre-printed thing that they read off, a lot of them say I'm from Honduras. I'm scared to death down there. There are gangs that are overrunning the country. And that's legitimate.

And international law says that they have a right to ask for asylum at the border of a country. They come through Mexico, they arrive at our border, we have no right under the international law, not to allow them to make an asylum request.

All over the world, people cross borders and make asylum requests. Some are granted, some are denied. There's a legal process. We have one in America.

VAUSE: OK. And that process was specifically looking at the Immigration and Nationality Act, which states very clearly, any alien who is physically present in the United States, irrespective of such alien's status, may apply for asylum.

But there are exceptions, if that person has committed a crime, and then it's up to the Attorney General to decide what crimes would disqualify asylum seekers. And that decision is not subject to judicial review.

[00:35:14] So, illegally entering the U.S., I guess, that would become a disqualifying crime for asylum seekers. You can debate the morals about this, but it seems purely from a legal standpoint, the Trump administration, would you say they're on safe ground?

KATZ: No, not at all. If someone was a deported alien, they'd be committing a crime to come back after a formal deportation. That's not the situation with these folks. These folks are coming from very poor, violent gang infested countries, in Central America, and they have a right to ask for asylum.

Some of them are facing political persecution. What inspired our asylum laws in the United States is our best intentions, the best side of the American people. And, you know, the best side of the American people is a wonderful thing, and we were mortified that we didn't allow, let's say, the Jews during the holocaust, to have a ship, be anchored here.

We sent them back to Germany for persecution and worse. Then, we don't want to be a country like other countries in the world that send people back, that send asylum seekers back to persecution. If that's bogus, that's determined by our courts.

They do a very good job. We have wonderful, very efficient courts that look at these questions. Many asylum seekers are denied. They're decided by judges. But President Trump cannot decide through some border patrol that these people don't have a valid asylum claim.

They have a right to bring it and to make it, and all these people from war-torn countries and persecution. They have a right to present their case. Now, more controversial things are people like, let's say, domestic violence. I think that's what your question is referring to.

That the Attorney General can say, I don't think he should say, but he can say victims of domestic violence are not facing the kind of persecution that we're talking about. And that's what you're saying is not reviewable by a court, although, there are certain ways to try to make that justiciable, in the courts, and raise it.

VAUSE: OK. So, after the President, you know, dropped this bombshell, just days before the midterm elections, it seems he gave border agents free rein to open fire on immigrants. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. We're going to consider -- I tell them, consider it a rifle. When they throw rocks like they did at the Mexico military and police, I say, consider it a rifle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: OK. The U.S. customs and border protection's use of force handbook, clearly states, authorized officers/agents may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer/agent has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of serious physical injury or death to the officer or agent.

The President may think there is no difference between a wound sustained from a rock and a wound sustained from a gunshot, but there is. And this would seem to put those agents in some kind of legal jeopardy, to say nothing about the morality of all of this.

KATZ: The agents would be in severe legal jeopardy. This is a campaign stunt, four days, before the election. Everybody sees it for what it is. And if a border patrol agent shot at somebody because they were throwing a rock, they would be prosecuted and they would be convicted.

I've tried jury cases, and I wouldn't want to be their defense attorney, because all 12 jurors would convict them. You cannot shoot and use deadly force against someone throwing a rock. Now, you can set it up, where the person is three-feet away and the rock has already hit your head and now, they're throwing another rock. But that's not what we're talking about.

What we're talking about here is Trump feels weak, facing the midterms, and we all know that bullies are weak people. And this is bullying. This is awful. And this is not going to go into people watching your show should realize, this is not going to go into effect in America. No border patrol agent in his right mind or her right mind is going to shoot somebody just for picking up a stone or throwing a stone.

VAUSE: It's -- yes, many would say it's un-American, David, good to see you. Thank you.

KATZ: Great to see you. Good to be on the show.

VAUSE: Still to come, the music of Mosul. A year after the fall of ISIS there, the musicians who once lived in fear, now, reclaiming their city.

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[00:40:00] VAUSE: From the sound of gunfire, to the sound of music, more than a year after Mosul was liberated from ISIS, the city, which was once considered the cultural epicenter of Iraq, is using music and art to reclaim its identity. CNN's Michael Holmes has the story.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is the sound of harmony, the sound of peace. This is what life is like in Mosul today, people listening intently to the beautiful music of an orchestra, very different from last summer, and for years before that, when only the sounds of bombs could be heard.

It was in 2014 that the Islamic State claimed the city as part of their caliphate, blowing up statues and cultural monuments. The fighting brought the city to its knees, leaving most of it in rubble. But the militants were defeated by Iraqi and Kurdish forces and a coalition led by the United States.

Now, as musicians play in the park, where ISIS once trained child soldiers, the city is reclaiming its cultural identity. KARIM WASFI, FORMER DIRECTOR, IRAQI NATIONAL SYMPHONY (through translator): Through music and soft power, we can overcome the fragmentation and the hurdles which have directly impacted civil life, ideological and cultural life, and even ordinary economic life.

HOLMES: Defying fears of further attacks, artists and activists hold weekly book markets and photography exhibitions. They even painted murals around the city, in an effort to restore public spaces, to their pre-war beauty.

ISIS torched the university library, destroying millions of books, which the activists tried to replenish with an international book drive. And a new cultural center has opened in the city, welcoming both men and women. It features a bookshop and hosts readings and music.

ALI AL-BAROODI, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MOSUL (through translator): Mosul lost its identity, lost its features, lost thousands of its people, with some, even still under the rubble. These efforts aren't going to fix everything overnight, but it gives us hope, it makes us feel that we aren't alone and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

HOLMES: Hope for a brighter future for Mosul, with the sounds of a new beginning. Michael Holmes, CNN.

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VAUSE: Good note to end on. Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm John Vause, stay with us. "WORLD SPORT" is next.

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