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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

President Trump Has Maintained A Grueling Rally Schedule In Support Of Key Candid; Alec Baldwin Punched Somebody Out During A Parking Dispute; Trump Is Playing Politics At The Border. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 03, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:32] S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED.

Here is tonight's headline, the clock is ticking, America. You are looking at a live shot from Pensacola, Florida, where President Trump will take the stage in just over an hour and a half to once again, rally his base. And in just three days, voters will head to the polls and cast their ballots in the 2018 midterm elections.

The stakes couldn't be higher. Not only do Republicans fragile majorities in the House and the Senate hanging in the balance, but also so too a number critical governors' races.

President Trump can be accused of a lot of things but being lazy in these closing days is not one of them. He has maintained a grueling rally schedule in support of key candidates. In just the last two days, he has campaigned in four states including West Virginia, Indiana, Montana, and Florida where he is set to take the stage later tonight.

Tomorrow, he will be in Georgia and Tennessee. And on Monday, he will hold rallies in Ohio, Indiana, and Missouri. Call this unusual in a midterm election is an understatement. Just hours ago in Montana, the President seemed intent on hitting every exposed nerve he could think of from caravans to joblessness and crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens to flood into your communities. Depleting our resources and overwhelming our nation. And I noticed all that beautiful barbed wire going up today. The choice in this election could not be more simple. A Republican Congress means more jobs and less crime. I'm the only one that tells you the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: President is doubling down in key races, campaigning in tight contests in states he won in 2016. Of the 43 rallies Trump has held this year, only five took place in states he didn't carry. No surprise, he likes friendly territory. In Montana, a state that Trump won by 20 points, popular Democratic

Senator Jon Tester is fighting for his political life in a tighter than expected race against Republican Matt Rosendale.

In Florida, Tallahassee mayor Andrew Gillum is hoping to become the sunshine state's first African-American governor. Gillum is running neck and neck with Trump (INAUDIBLE), former Republican congressman, Ron Desantis.

And the governors' race in deep red Georgia has similarly historic implications. They are progressive Democrats Stacey Abrams is looking to become the first African-American woman to hold the governorship, not just in Georgia but anywhere.

Key races with huge implications. Here's the deal. In the final weeks, the nation has reeled from one heartache to the next. From a murdered "Washington Post" journalist to dozens killed in hurricane Michael to a wave of Hondurans fleeing violence in their home country to more than a dozen mail bombs sent to homes and offices of Trump critics and the press to a horrific hate crime massacre at a synagogue outside of Pittsburgh.

We have been through a lot, America. And at a time we need healing and unity more than ever before, who are on the precipice of one of the most heated and divisive elections in recent history.

And the President seems more than happy to exploit it all. The fear, the anxiety, the raw emotions. He doesn't have to. He has got a booming economy to gloat about. But instead, it's lies about the caravan. Lies about the media. Lies about his own policies and it just might work.

OK, here to discuss this and a lot more is CNN senior political commentator and the host of the "AXE FILES," David Axelrod.

Axe, let's jump right in to some of these races and what they mean.

Montana, deep red state, but Democratic senator Jon Tester is very well liked there. Just in April, he was one of the top ten most popular senators in the country. And yet, he is fighting for his life right now. What do you make of the fact that Montana is so tight?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well look, Donald Trump carried that state by 20 points. The Senate races often follow their presidential reference in these kind of elections. And so Tester was bound to have a close race. President is obviously working very hard to make it such. Has a personal beef with Tester because Tester led the battle against Ronnie Jackson, the President's personal physician in the White House who he appointed to the V.A. And so he seems really out of sorts about that, that Jackson had to withdraw.

So, you know, I'm not surprised the race is close. I'm also not surprised that Tester continues to maintain a lead. He is a very authentic Montanan.

[18:05:17] CUPP: Yes. AXELROD: And you know, one thing that people don't realize is even

though Trump won by that margin, Montana, 50 of the last 53 Senate races have been won there by Democrats. It's not that unusual for Democrats to win the Senate race.

CUPP: Yes.

AXELROD: The nature of that state to have a Democratic governor as well. So it's not as hostile a turf as you would expect.

CUPP: Right. Let's go to Georgia where we have Stacey Abrams, African-American woman and unapologetic far left progressive who is giving Republican Brian Kemp a real run for his money. I don't think anyone expected this one to be tight as it is. If Georgia elects Abrams, what national implications do you think that might have for Democrats?

AXELROD: I'm not sure, you know. Certainly, she would be a powerful voice in the Democratic Party, but, you know, one thing we have seen is we have seen how diverse this country is and how different candidates do well in different places. I mean, Jon Tester is a much different candidate than Stacey Abrams. And they share broad goals about health care and jobs and so on. But that doesn't mean that they are going to agree on methodology.

CUPP: Yes.

AXELROD: But clearly, she would be a strong voice in the democratic debate.

CUPP: Your former boss, President Obama, stumped for both Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum in Florida. Here was his message yesterday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In four days, you can choose a vigor more prosperous, more generous vision of America. An America where love and hope conquer hate. An America where we, the people, whatever we look like, whoever we love, however we choose to pray, however our ancestors came here, we can come together to shape our country's cores.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: You know, that message certainly appeals to me a whole lot more than Trump's. But can that compete with Trump's ginning up all the fear and anxiety?

AXELROD: You know, I think that is the big question. That was vintage Barack Obama.

CUPP: Yes.

AXELROD: That was the message that got him elected President twice. It is the message he hued to throughout his presidency and it is one he believes in and Donald Trump is the antithesis of that. It may be one reason why he got elected because it does gin up his base. It does gin up people who are less comfortable with some of the changes we have seen demographically in our country. Culturally in our country.

But you know, Florida is very much an up for grabs state and it will be interesting. You know, Donald Trump basically handpicked Desantis, the gubernatorial candidate there. So this really is a referendum in a state that's an important swing state in this country on the kind of politics that people want.

CUPP: Yes. Thanks, David. I will see you in D.C. for next week's election coverage, my friend.

AXELROD: Looking forward to it. Thank you.

CUPP: Thanks.

And be sure to stick around for the "AXE FILES" immediately following UNFILTERED. David Axelrod will be joined by former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

OK. For some more on the ground analysis of these key races I was just talking about, I want to bring in CNN political commentator and senior political correspondent for the "Washington Examiner," David Drucker.

Drucker, you have been out on the trail. Republican Matt Rosendale got a big boost in Montana this week when the libertarian candidate, third party candidate dropped out and endorsed him over Jon Tester. What are you expecting in that race in Montana?

DAVID DRUCKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. It's a very close race. And I think that we have to go all the way back to the Brett Kavanaugh hearings to understand why this race tightened.

I was out with Matt Rosendale couple of weeks ago in Montana. And people were coming up to him, giving him the old at-a-boy and we are rooting for you. And it's the kind of thing his candidacy had been lacking especially against Jon Tester who is that sort of that David Axelrod was talking about, that authentic Montanan.

CUPP: Yes.

DRUCKER: It is always been -- overcome his party identification because he is really one of them. And I think what Kavanaugh did was awaken a complacent conservative electorate and that's why this thing is closed.

Now the libertarian candidate dropping out after early voting began means that the boost that he could have provided had he gotten out a lot earlier may be neutered a little bit. But it is certainly doesn't heard (ph).

CUPP: Interesting, yes. So over in Georgia, do you think that Stacey Abrams has a shot in that red state? DRUCKER: Yes, really interesting because I'm always skeptical of

public polling of Georgia showing Democrats in the game. The election happens and it's never as close as those polls suggested. But my Republican sources that know how to poll Georgia tell me this thing is real. That it's a toss-up. And it is not because Republicans are not enthusiastic to vote. They expect to pull a big huge vote out of the rural areas that generally vote Republicans in large numbers.

[18:10:19] CUPP: Right.

DRUCKER: Where Mr. Kemp is struggling and where Abrams is doing really well is in the Atlanta suburbs and this is gets back to the sort of things that has been plaguing Republicans this entire election cycle where you have particularly women voters but not just women in these affluent suburbs that basically said because of Trump, they are not as affiliated with the Republican Party. They don't want to affiliate with Republicans as much as they have in the past and this is boosting Abrams. That is at least how the data has looked until now.

CUPP: Interesting. So before we go, what are your predictions for the house and the Senate on Tuesday? What do you think happens?

DRUCKER: Yes. My prediction is not to look like an idiot and get the wrong prediction. But here - because we know how far these predictions - how much these predictions are worth. But here's what I will tell you.

CUPP: Yes, go ahead.

DRUCKER: I just finished in Maine covering the Democrat in a rural district and now in Minneapolis taking a look at the quintessential upscale suburban district. And here is one thing that I know is true from covering Senate races and from covering these house races.

I think Republicans are on track to hold the Senate and pick up a couple of seats, unless the polling is wildly off track. And I don't mean just public but the private polling that these campaigns have pollsters that understand their stakes. So anything could happen but Republicans look really good in the Senate.

In the House, anything could happen but I would rather be a Democrat than a Republican. And when we talk about all of this Democratic energy that has been boosting Democratic midterm turnout that usually can't compete very well with Republican turnout in a midterm, what I'm talking about are people volunteering for campaigns that have never volunteered before. So maybe they voted. They have never been this gemmed up before.

And even though there's not a lot of talk on the trail one on one with voters about Donald Trump, Trump is clearly the oxygen that has fueled this from the beginning and that's why I think Democrats have such a good shot at winning the House. They just have so many districts where they are competing in that I think the projections of Democratic gains in the 25 to 35 range are very reasonable. And I think it very well could happen. Although, it's always possible if the polling is off by a couple of points, Republicans hang on by a couple of seats.

CUPP: Cover all your bases, David, we got it.

Thank you. I appreciate.

DRUCKER: That's right, S.E. Thank you.

CUPP: We will talk next week.

All right. Up next, will Trump's risky divide and conquer strategy lead to a reward on Tuesday?

And later, separating the political theater from the reality on the ground at our southern border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:35] CUPP: In the run-up to the midterm elections, President Trump is pushing all the buttons. No matter where you stand or what your priorities are, the President has a solution for you. Are you worried about health care? Not to worry. The President promises he will protect coverage of preexisting conditions.

But actually the administration introduced a new policy last week that would allow states to get around that requirement. Are you not convinced the tax cuts were good enough? Well, in that case, there's another 10 percent tax cut coming. And that one is just for you guys, except Congress is not in session and by all accounts, this isn't happening any time soon if ever.

Are you worried about the borders? I know you are. How about 15,000 additional troops to defend it and a racist dad to remind you it's funded by Democrats probably and is also full of Middle Easterners and cop killers.

The caravans' numbers are dwindling. It is 900 miles away from the border. And it is largely women and children seeking asylum. Also there is zero proof it's funded by Democrats.

The GOP nonetheless is leaning on Trump to be there closer in a very tight, very volatile midterm race. And in addition to a rally schedule as objectively aggressive, the President is spinning every tale he can tell.

Well, how will that play? Let's see. For more on this, let me bring in my guest, CNN political commentators GOP strategist Kevin Madden, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Kevin.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CUPP: Will this strategy be good for Republicans? The spaghetti on the wall. See what sticks strategy. Something for everyone.

MADDEN: Well, I'm doubting a question here. Yes and no. CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: Look. In these districts where, and you know, you had David Drucker. David used this term earlier this week, the Trumpy districts, where you really need to generate a lot of Trump's most sort of ardent base supporters to get out to the polls.

CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: And you needed them to give them a reason to do that. But the non-stop attack on immigration and using the caravan as a backdrop for that conversation, it is going to generate a lot of attention in those districts and maybe get those voters out.

CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: But the backlash, the big risk is where I think the majority is going to be won or lost is these more affluent suburbs. Think outside of Philadelphia, outside Denver, you know, areas like that, outside of Chicago. Those are areas where, you know, college educated women don't respond to these attacks.

CUPP: No, we don't.

MADDEN: At the same - right. In the same way that maybe men and some of the excerpts do.

CUPP: Right.

MADDEN: So as a result, that used to be a very solid bloc of Republican voters in past elections and helped us win the majority. And now, potentially is one of the reasons you could lose it.

CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: So it all depends where these arguments break through.

CUPP: Right.

Maria, how do you think Democrats combat this? Do they chase down every tangent that Trump goes on or do they stick to a message like health care?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. Right.

So right now, the way that they are doing this, excuse me, which I think is very smart, is that they are actually sticking to the message that has been working for them up until now.

CUPP: OK.

CARDONA: The number one issue, as you know, is actually health care --.

CUPP: Yes, for Democrats. CARDONA: For Democrats, exactly. For their constituents, it has

worked and it has actually really spoken to the issue that they care most about. They do have to respond when they are either asked about it in a town hall or if there is a specific attack on them like for example, Andrew Gillum was brilliant in how he responded to Trump when Trump insulted him by calling him a stone cold thief.

CUPP: Right.

CARDONA: Right? And what he said was, you know, look. Donald Trump is insulting me again. But as my grandmother said, you don't want to get into a mud fight with the pig because the pig likes it and you don't want to get into the mud with him.

[18:20:05] CUPP: Right.

CARDONA: So you respond but try to continue to focus on the issues. It is not easy.

CUPP: I haven't seen a lot of Democrats talking about the caravan though. I haven't. Why do you think that is? Is it because they would have to answer, what would you do about it?

CARDONA: Because they are having some candidates who have talked about it. So Xochitl Torres Small in New Mexico has talked about in and what Democrats are able to talk about is the comprehensive immigration reform plan that the majority of Democrats actually supported back in 2013, which had massive border security in a smart and sensible way and then they can flip to the caravan and say, look, these are not criminals. These are women and children. And yes, we have to figure out a better way to see who deserves asylum and who we should send back.

CUPP: Yes. I hear you. It is too politically fraught.

CARDONA: But these are not issues that are working against them in the districts.

MADDEN: I see you bring up a very good point, though.

CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: And that's one of the reasons why Trump brought this issue of the caravan up which is that he that there are no real easy answers.

CUPP: Right.

MADDEN: But that it stirs up a lot of emotions.

CUPP: Yes.

MADDEN: And in the last two weeks of the campaign, it's never really about unity. It's always a message of trying to draw contrast with the opposite party.

CUPP: Right. MADDEN: And that's why he thinks he is using it to his advantage.

CUPP: Let me talk to you about someone you know well, Paul Ryan, speaker of the House. The President picked on him a bit this week saying, why aren't you focusing on maintaining the majority as if that's not what he has been doing for the past two years? He has raised more money than any other House leader. Why do you think Trump went there?

MADDEN: No. That's exactly like my last point, is that you want to draw contrast to the other party? Not your own party, right.

MADDEN: CARDONA: Right.

CUPP: It's unbelievable.

MADDEN: And the interesting thing too is that, first of all, it's distracting for all these candidates. Now, they have to pick a side in some of these elections. They don't want to be in that position.

CUPP: No.

MADDEN: The other part of it, it doesn't square with the facts. Like you said, Paul Ryan raised and spent for a Republican candidates out there, $110 million through the congressional leadership fund. He is right now, at this very moment, on like a 50 city, 12 state tour trying to help these vulnerable members. So.

CUPP: Yes.

Real quick before you guys go. I know they are all important, all the races matter, but what's the one you are really looking at on Tuesday?

CARDONA: I think the one that I mentioned, Xochitl Torres Small in New Mexico and New Jersey 11, Mikie Sherrill who is a woman, a vet.

CUPP: OK.

CARDONA: One of the women that we have been talking about, you know, forever who is really strong and who is emblematic of the kind of people that we have running.

MADDEN: Yes. Real quick, Kentucky six, Andy Barr versus Amy McGrath. Polls closed very early. It's a district that Trump won big. And now right now, it's in a very, you know, a very close race. So if early in the night we find out that a race like that Trump won big in 2016 now have a Republican incumbent losing that could means this big night for --.

CARDONA: And again, McGrath, veteran, fighter pilot.

CUPP: Yes.

I knew I invited you guys on for a reason. Thank you so much, Kevin, Maria.

CARDONA: Thank you.

MADDEN: Great to be with you.

CUPP: Next, is Trump's fear first strategy driving one's dependable suburban votes away from his party.

And a little later, I will speak to a former neo-Nazi about the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and the hate in the campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:30] CUPP: Notoriously hot-headed actor Alec Baldwin was arrested yesterday again, and charged with assault and harassment following a dispute over a parking spot in New York City. Police alleged that Baldwin punched a 49-year-old man in the face. But after getting booked and leaving the police station on Friday, Baldwin logged on to Twitter to denied it all, writing in a very royal (INAUDIBLE) narrator voice, the assertion that I punched anyone over a parking spot is false.

I wanted to go on record stating as much, I realized that it is become a sport to tag people with as many negative charges and defaming allegation as possible for the purposes of quick bait entertainment. Fortunately, you know, no matter how reverberating, he echoes, it doesn't make the statement true.

Now because of his recurring role impersonating Trump on "SNL," Baldwin has become the President's primary Hollywood nemesis which has led us to perhaps the most surprising Trump moment of 2018. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Who was arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alec Baldwin. He punched somebody out during a parking dispute.

TRUMP: I wish him luck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: We will be back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:19:00] CUPP: In the Red File tonight, as I mentioned earlier, it's unusual for a president to campaign this aggressively on behalf of midterm election candidates. That is because usually the President isn't helpful for the party in power. Typically, that party loses seats.

This year, Trump is putting that maximum to the test. He is all over the country doubling and tripling down on his base message. You heard what he is saying. The fear-mongering about criminals and caravans, the outright lies about overturning birthright citizenship and a constant attacks against press. But it didn't have to be this way. Here's the message speaker of the House Paul Ryan is hammering three

days before the election for a press release.

If you look at what we have accomplished, we have earned your vote. We stopped typical gridlock and have grown our nation's economy. Military is stronger today. Opportunities are more prevalent. Even with all those accomplishments, we have more we could do to make things better for millions of Americans and we are asking you for that chance on Tuesday.

And here is a release from the Republican National Committee yesterday.

Think of how far our country has come under President Trump's leadership. We have millions of new jobs, record low unemployment, the biggest tax cut in a generation and record high small business optimism.

That's how Trump could be campaigning. He has chosen not to. But will it be at the expense of suburban voters? Let me ask former Republican congressman Charlie dent. He represented Pennsylvania's 15th district, a Supreme Court ruling has redrawn that district making it one of the most hotly contested suburban areas that people are watching very closely.

Congressman, I have heard you talk about the accomplishments of the Republican Congress over the past two years. Surely, it's what Paul Ryan and the RNC would rather be talking about. Do you think that could be as compelling a message though as Trump's scare campaign?

[18:30:51] CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look. S.E. absolutely. I think the message of Paul Ryan is conveying is infinitely superior to what the President is spinning.

This election, yes. It's about the base to a certain extent, Republican base is going to support Republicans. Democratic base supports Democrats. It's about independents and swing voters. And right now, Republicans are not polling well among independent voters.

CUPP: Right.

DENT: So the President's message I'm afraid is going to scare them. And in suburban Philadelphia, the (INAUDIBLE) district or the Tom McArthur district in New Jersey (INAUDIBLE), I can't -- those guys aren't talking about the caravans, I can tell you that.

CUPP: Right.

DENT: This is not helping them in their districts.

CUPP: But Trump knows what works with his base and they are not getting fired up over, you know, NIH funding and school choice, but do you worry that, like, the racist ad for example, that boxes out, not just independents but even a chance at getting some Democrat voters?

DENT: Well, yes. And frankly, I think the bleeding that Republicans have to worry about most are college educated women particularly suburban educated women, you know, who are going the other way.

CUPP: Yes.

DENT: And so, I think the messages that these candidates should be running at least those going to make the majority, you know, those messages have to appeal particularly to those college educated women and this demagoguing, the caravan is completely unhelpful to those candidates and counterproductive.

CUPP: Yes.

DENT: It might help in North Dakota and Tennessee but it certainly not helping in suburban Philadelphia and New Jersey.

CUPP: Yes. And as I mentioned earlier, you know, I am a college educated white woman in a suburb. I am a Republican. I am inclined to vote Republican, of course, but this message does not do anything for me.

I just want to turn briefly before I let you go to the tragic shooting outside of Pittsburgh one week ago today. Our hearts are with the victims of course. And they, I assume, could care less about politics right now, but the President at a rally this week was lamenting how the shooting quote "stopped a tremendous momentum for Republicans." What are your thoughts on that?

DENT: Well, the President should never have tried to talk about the politics of the shooting. This is just simply so devastating. And I think what has happened ism and by the way, in my community in Allentown, just 1500 people showed up for a vigil. So people are really taking this. It is very hard for people throughout the commonwealth.

CUPP: Sure.

DENT: But now the President shouldn't talk about the politics of this. Again, completely unhelpful. In fact, the bigger concern that I have is that the President's continuing messaging on these nativist, isolationist, protectionist impulses of his, I think are unhealthy for the country and do bring out the worst in us at times. And I'm not saying that's what caused the shootings. I don't blame the President for the shooting at all, of course.

But I think he has got to tone it down. He has got to speak as a leader, as a unifier of the nation. That's the job of the President to keep us calm and not to incite us at times like this. He can't simultaneously try to unify the nation after Pittsburgh as he tried to do and then at the same time, you know, incite us on, you know, immigrants coming in from Central America. I mean, it's hard to do these two things simultaneously, unite and divide.

CUPP: Yes. It seems as though the divide message generally wins out Trump's heart.

Congressman Charlie Dent, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it. DENT: Thank you, S.E. Great to be with you.

CUPP: Next, I ask a reformed white supremacist if there's a direct link between our national political discourse and the Tree of Life shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:00] CUPP: Just days after 11 members of his congregation were murdered by a neo-Nazi gunman, Rabbi Jeffrey Myers was once again leading the Tree of Life congregation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in Friday's Sabbath services.

Today, the synagogue hosted a prayer vigil to mark the time the massacre began one week ago. The services are acts of defiance in the face of the worst instance of anti-Semitic violence in U.S. history, violence which has become tragically more frequent in recent years.

Anti-Semitic hate crimes have seen a steady increase since 2015. According to the Anti-Defamation League, there were 1986 reported anti-Semitic instances in the United States in 2017. A 57 percent increase from 2016 which itself had seen a 35 percent uptick in incidents from the previous year.

It's hard to separate those numbers from the increasingly rancorous (ph) tone of political discourse in this country. And a president who has done little to distance himself from the hate mongering of the right political fringe.

So what can we do to stop the rise and tide of hate in this country?

Joining me now for more insight into this is author of the book "White American Youth, my dissent into America's most violent hate movement and how I got out," founder of the free radicals project and a reformed white supremacist, Christian Picciolini.

Christian, at one time, you had beliefs similar to those held by the man who attacked Pittsburgh's Tree of Life congregation. What infects someone with that kind of hatred? How does that happen?

[18:40:42] CHRISTIAN PICCIOLINI, FORMER NEO-NAZI SKINHEAD: You know, S.E., I really think that the radicalization of people happens from the day that they're born. The ideology is just the final permission slip, the driver's license, so to speak for them to be able to act out on their frustrations or marginalization or whatever else is broken inside of them.

But I can tell you that when somebody with power gives them words that back up what they believe, spreads conspiracy theories and gives them some sort of agency, there's a certain sub-segment of these extremist groups that will act. Now most extremists, you know, may just be extremists vocally in an ideological terms, but there is also a group of people within every extremist movement who will take action based on the words that they hear. And now that hate is becoming normalized, they feel very empowered. CUPP: So, I mean, specifically, President Trump's words, is that

motivating people in white supremacist circles? Do they care what the President of the United States says or doesn't say?

PICCIOLINI: Well, I think the optics are that, you know, they probably don't want to support somebody who is in government but everything that he is saying is in line with their policies, with their beliefs. And we see white supremacists like David Duke who openly support Donald Trump's policies.

CUPP: Right.

PICCIOLINI: So, you know, all I have to do is point to the people who are the white supremacists to show you that they actually support and believe what he says.

CUPP: Yes. I want you to listen to something that President Trump said in the run-up to these midterms. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, they have a word. It sort of became old fashioned. It's called a nationalist. And I say, really? We are not supposed to use that word. You know what I am, I'm a nationalist, OK. I'm a nationalist. Nationalist. Use that word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: What did you think when you heard that?

PICCIOLINI: I mean, it was loud like a bull horn to me. I didn't hear a dog whistle. And what I heard his call with white nationalism and saying I'm behind you. Since then, we have seen four tragedies occur. We have had the pipe bombings, we have had the tragedy in Pittsburgh at the synagogue in Louisville or in Kentucky, we saw two African-Americans killed by white supremacists, and there are reports today that the shooting in Florida was actually committed by somebody who was far right leaning with white supremacist ideals who is part of the involuntary sell bat (ph) movement. So this is going to continue and people need to be held accountable for their words.

CUPP: That last one was at a yoga studio in Florida. We are still reporting on that, trying to get to the bottom of what happened there. But it really does seem like there's been a significant uptick, not only in hate crime attacks. That, we know but also just the over racism we have seen go viral lately. You know, white people calling the police on minorities for living their lives, for having barbecues, going to stores. I did a story on a guy who was called for babysitting kids, just going to vote. What do you attribute all of that to? Surely, that's been going on since before President Trump came into power.

PICCIOLINI: Absolutely. We have, you know, had an issue with white supremacy since our nation's founding. I think what's happening now is not only is there a resurgence and new people becoming involved in the movement but also emboldening the people who always had those beliefs to now be able to say them out loud. They are not hiding behind hoods anymore. They have gone from what I used to be, wearing boots to now suits and the conversation and the dialogue in our country has become so extreme that now, these people who had hateful ideologies who embarrassed of them maybe just a few years ago are not embarrassed to say that anymore.

CUPP: Right. So how do you do reform people with this kind of hate- filled in their hearts and lines? What do you do?

PICCIOLINI: You know, there are two things that haters love and that's silence and violence. If we are silent, they grow and if we are violent against them, they use that as a victim narrative. So what I do is I approach people with compassion and with cautious vulnerability. And I can tell you that for me, 23 years ago, the most powerful transformative thing was receiving compassion from the people I least deserved it from when I least deserved it. So that's how I approach people who are in these groups. And I will introduce them to the people they think that they hate.

[18:45:12] CUPP: That's really powerful, Christian. I'm really glad you joined me today to talk about this.

PICCIOLINI: Thank you, S.E.

CUPP: Thanks.

OK. After the break, a look at how Trump is playing politics at the border.

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[18:49:53] CUPP: Part of the President's closing argument just days before what's shaping up to be record midterm turnout is that thousands of criminal invaders, tough men, are heading to our southern border, so he is activating the military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:50:07] TRUMP: As far as the caravan is concerned, our military is out. We have about 5,008. We will go up to anywhere between 10,000 to 15,000 military personnel on top of border patrol, ICE, and everybody else at the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Now, the President would like you to believe that our men and women in uniform will be there in a law enforcement capacity. According to CNN reporting, however, the Pentagon rejected that request last week and will send personnel for quote "logistical support only."

But even at the current order of 5,200 troops, that amounts to the largest deployment of active duty military to the U.S.-Mexico border in a century. And it is more troops than we have fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Critics have accused the President of deploying the military as a

political stunt, to which defense secretary Mattis responded with a curt, we don't do political stunts. Many of his former colleagues, however, appear to disagree.

General Colin Powell told "the Washington Post" quote "I see no threat requiring this kind of deployment."

Lieutenant General David Bordo (ph), a former commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, added, the military has all of a sudden been placed in a highly politicized environment regarding immigration.

I will say. Let's see what CNN military and diplomatic analyst lieutenant admiral John Kirby has to say.

Admiral Kirby, former military leaders, generals, some top advisers, they are speaking out on this and saying that the military is being politicized. From this to that military parade Trump always talks about wanting, are you worried that the President is using our military like toy soldiers?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Yes, I am worried. I mean, that he is using them as a campaign tactic. When you listen to what he said even today about the military out there on the border, the speed with which, not just the numbers, but the speed with which they are being sent there in advance of the midterm elections and coupled with his rhetoric, I am worried that he is using them as a campaign tactic. And I haven't seen anything, you know, out of DHS to actually validate this requirement for this many troops that can make me rest a little easy on that.

CUPP: Well, what do you think folks at the Pentagon? What do you think our troops think about this?

KIRBY: Well, look, I think the troops are great. They are going to do what they are told to do.

CUPP: Sure.

KIRBY: They are going to deploy where they are told to do and they really don't try to focus on the politics. I would be very surprised if any of those men and women down there are too worried about the politics here there are much more concern about getting their jobs done.

I think -- I would be surprised if officials in the Pentagon aren't a little worried about this as well. Not just from the political side of it but also because, you know, it's a drain on their own resources. This is taking troops away from other missions that they might otherwise be able to do and it's going to be very expensive.

And S.E., it's the Pentagon that's going to have to pay this bill. The Pentagon is not going to get reimbursed for this. That is - we are talking tens of millions of dollars easily, if not close to $100 million, depending on how long they are down there. CUPP: Well, and according to an unclassified military planning

report, published by "Newsweek," the walking caravan won't make it to the border for at least another month, perhaps, and is downsizing already as it goes. Do you think this deployment's even necessary?

KIRBY: It's hard to see how it is. And this is why I would like to see more transparency out of the department of homeland security about exactly why they need all these troops and for these particular missions, and that's what we're not getting. The Pentagon, I think, has been pretty forthcoming about what they are sending, what units.

CUPP: And why.

KIRBY: They even listed the bases and why. They haven't been transparent about the money but I understand that. They don't know that yet. But DHS has a responsibility to explain to us why this isn't a political stunt, why this isn't a campaign tactic, and why exactly they need this many troops this fast and that's what's missing. And it leads people like me and my colleagues to assume, you have to, when you look at this, to assume this is really nothing more than to try to turn up his base and get votes on Tuesday.

CUPP: I want to get your take on a very alarming set of comments the President made about the possibility of migrants throwing rocks at the border. Take a listen.

KIRBY: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. We are going consider -- and I told them, consider it a rifle.

They do that with us, they are going to be arrested. There's going to be problems. I didn't say shoot. I didn't say shoot.

So, Mexico is trying. They are trying, but we are different. We more than try. We have our military now on the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Admiral Kirby, the Nigerian army, which is part of a military criticized for rampant human rights abuses, on Friday, used the words of President Trump to justify its fatal shootings of rock-throwing protesters. How dangerous is that language?

KIRBY: Very dangerous. And you just put your thumb right on it, S.E. I'm not worried about our troops. They are going to have very specific rules of the use of force and the rules of engagement. They are not going to be firing on rock throwers. They don't even do that, you know, in other places in combat areas. They have a very strict set of engagement processes that they have to go through to de- escalate the situation.

[18:55:10] CUPP: Yes. KIRBY: But other people hear this. And they don't know that the

President is just, you know, shooting from the hip here. They think it's serious. And it's exactly right. It is the example he's setting for folks around the world that bothers me.

CUPP: Admiral Kirby, thank you so much for coming on, as always.

For more on the crucial foreign policy issues facing America, be sure to subscribe to my new podcast on Apple, Stitcher, or wherever you listen.

That's it for us tonight.

Up next, former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger talks to David Axelrod on "THE AXE FILES." Still around for that.

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