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Police: 12 Killed in Southern California Mass Shooting. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 08, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SHERIFF GEOFF DEAN, VENTURA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: -- rifle inside the location. The only weapon we have found that we believe was used was a handgun, but it's still early on, and we haven't gone through the scene in detail yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff, do you believe the gunman died of his own hand?

DEAN: It would appear that way. But I -- it's certainly to early to know if he did take his own life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- of the victims?

DEAN: Well, we certainly -- we have to wait for the medical examiner to get here. We have to do family notifications. So candidly, it will be hours and hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if the suspect had visited this bar before? Has anybody said --

DEAN: We don't know anything about the suspect. We haven't talked to anybody that had any contact with them prior? I actually have no idea who he is. We don't know anything about him yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the ages of the victims? Can you tell us if they were young?

DEAN: I actually -- I actually don't know what the ages were. It is a nightclub, so I would, you know, speculate they were probably in the 21- to 28-year-old age group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) type of wall (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going in. And trying to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the suspect immediately?

DEAN: There's no doubt that the change in how we handle active shooters played a role. Sergeant Helus and the Highway Patrol officer first on scene, they knew they had to take action and they went in and did what they had to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more time. Thirteen (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DEAN: Yes, 13.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many injured? DEAN: We don't know how many are injured, because they went to separate hospitals. I'm going to speculate, given what I've heard, somewhere between 10 and 15 additional injuries. And we don't know -- we don't believe there might be one additional gunshot victim. But we think there are all the injuries, people trying to escape, breaking out windows and doing different things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you see these shootings happen, did you ever think that it would happen right here?

DEAN: I've been a cop for 41 years, and I never thought I would see the things around the country that would happen, but I've learned it doesn't matter what community you're in. It doesn't matter how safe your community is. It can happen anywhere. Because obviously, in order for someone to do this, they have to have some sort of mental illness. And sadly, we have people with mental illnesses all over the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, are there any threats to anybody or any kind of education, something like this can happen?

DEAN: We have actually no information about that at all. But again, we're very early on in the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what happened when he shot the security guard and then kind of went in and started shooting (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DEAN: We actually don't know. I mean, we're interviewing multiple witnesses. But I can say, no, we haven't got everybody together yet to really put that timeline together. We'll certainly provide that as soon as we can get something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any thoughts at this time --

DEAN: You know, it's -- it's so tragic and losing Ron, you know, we go to the gym together. We work out together. It is horrific and terrible, and it saddens our heart, but there's also parents of those 11 other victims in there that -- whose hearts are ripped out tonight.

And I know there's parents wondering, "Oh, my gosh, you know, was one of my children in there?" or "Was it my sister and my brother?" So there's just no way to describe this. It saddens us all, and it tears at our hearts and our emotions, as it should. If we ever get to the point where it doesn't, then there's something wrong with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, can you talk about after Parkland, there's a lot of questions about police not being active. It does sound like your sergeant really was proactive. What was the thought process (UNINTELLIGIBLE) changed?

DEAN: Actually, it changed for us after Columbine years and years ago. And we train with our -- our fire department for an active shooting. And our officers know, when you get to a scene and there's two of you or even just one of you, and there's shooting going on, you go in. And that's a change of philosophy from what it used to be. And we worked so well in our county. Highway Patrol was here. When they made entry the second time tonight, there were Simi Valley officers. There were Oxnard officers. There were Ventura officers. There were sheriff's deputies, and there were Highway Patrol officers. Everyone comes together to solve the problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to be clear about the time, from the moment that the first contact was made by police to the moment that the second contact was made by police, what was the timeframe?

DEAN: So the timeframe, so the first deputies arrived on scene at 11:22. They made entry approximately four minutes later. That's when Sergeant Helus was shot. And it was -- and I don't have the exact timeline. It was probably close to 15 minutes. They didn't hear any shots fired before they regrouped, got additional officers, and went back in. And there were people hiding -- people hiding in restrooms. There are people hiding in attics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have an idea (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

[06:05:10] DEAN: I have no idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, what other scenes are you and your law enforcement investigating in relation to the -- what happened here?

DEAN: What other -- I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

DEAN: What other locations? None that I know of, but certainly, when we find out who the -- who the suspect is, we'll -- we'll go to his location; and we'll work with our bureau partners to see if there's a connection there. But at this time there's none other that I know of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the suspect armed with multiple weapons, or was it just one?

DEAN: As far -- right now, as far as we know, there was only one handgun, but that could certainly change as we do a more thorough search of the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you clarify? You said the suspect was down when you entered the building?

DEAN: The suspect was down with a gunshot wound when the officers went into the building, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deputy was shot by the suspect after making --

DEAN: We don't know who shot -- who shot the deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who shot the victim [SIC]? Was it self-inflicted?

DEAN: We don't -- we don't know who shot anybody at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, can you describe the suspect as Caucasian?

DEAN: I probably shouldn't comment on that at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even just an age?

DEAN: It would be a total guess. It's -- it's a horrific scene in there. There is blood everywhere. And the suspect is part of that, and I wouldn't -- I didn't want to get that close and disturb the scene and possibly jeopardize the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) people who (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

DEAN: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) trapped inside -- what was their reaction?

DEAN: Well, they're being interviewed by our -- excuse me, by our investigators. I honestly don't know exactly what they said at this point. I wanted to get the information as soon as I could to you, and we'll continue to follow-up. I have no idea what happened inside there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

DEAN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

DEAN: Anything else?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a message (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DEAN: I've met with them and talked to them. We spent time. I made sure I talked to them before we released the name.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When can we get another update with everything that's going on?

DEAN: Well, by the time -- I would say in an hour, hour and a half maybe. I don't want to waste your time and have you come up and I don't have anything. You know, you want -- if we can get information about what the witnesses said inside or about our suspect, we will let you know. But I don't want to waste your time if we don't have anything new.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

DEAN: Mass shooting? I don't remember in my 41 years having a mass shooting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, what would you like us to know about the sergeant?

DEAN: Ron was a hard-working dedicated sheriff's sergeant. He was totally committed. He gave his all, and tonight, as I told his wife, he died a hero, because he went -- he went in to save lives, to save other people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: sheriff, one question here. And for those parents that are waking up to this and who are frantically looking for their children, relatives, friends, what should they do right now? Where should they go? Who should they call? Who should they talk to?

DEAN: I believe we have a victim's hotline. And the PIOs will give you the victim's hotline where they can call to check and just make sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were they all transported (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

DEAN: They went to multiple hospitals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Sheriff.

DEAN: OK. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So real quick, that hotline number for people to call is area code 805-465-6650.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) You're welcome.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We do want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Thursday, November 8, 6 a.m. here in New York.

You've been watching that press conference. We do have breaking news to tell you about, of the worst variety.

[06:10:05] There's been another deadly mass shooting in America, the second in less than two weeks. Overnight, police say a gunman opened fire inside a Southern California bar that was filled with college kids. There are 12 people dead, including a sheriff's deputy. Authorities say there are more injured. They don't have the numbers yet. The suspected gunman is dead.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The largest mass shooting in this country in 12 days. Let that sink in.

Police say hundreds of people were inside the bar, college students, as Alisyn said. The bar was hosting a college country music night. Witnesses describe a scene of sheer panic. People were ordered to get down on the ground once the gun fire rang out. Others broke windows in order to escape. And one of those killed was a sergeant, 29 years on the force, Ron Helus, who was the first law enforcement officer to confront the shooter. He is now dead. Twenty-nine years on the force.

Our Nick Watt is on the scene in Thousand Oaks, California, with the latest breaking details -- Nick. NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, as you say, 13 people now dead.

Eleven people killed inside that club. The gunman himself is dead. Unclear if that was a self-inflicted wound or if he was hit by deputies as they came in.

And the other victim, that 29-year veteran, the sheriff's sergeant who was first on the scene with a California Highway Patrolman just minutes after the first calls came in. They tried to make entry into the club. The sheriff's sergeant was hit, apparently, multiple times. The California Highway Patrolman managed to drag him away. He was taken to hospital, where he died just a little over an hour ago.

Now, we're told that this investigation is fluid. It's dynamic. We do not yet have an identification on the gunman. The Ventura County sheriff said that, of course, they are looking into whether there is a terrorism link. He said that there is no indication that there is, but in this day and age, you have to go down that route.

Now, they say that they still don't really know exactly what happened inside that club, but we have spoken to a number of eyewitnesses. They describe a gunman of average build with a short-barreled handgun.

One young man we spoke to said that there was a volley of shots and then there was a pause. And during that pause, some people managed to smash windows of the club, get out through those windows, get out through the kitchen, through the loading dock.

One other young man we spoke to actually was also in Las Vegas for the Route 91 mass shooting last October.

Many students who managed to escape, of course, then trying to contact their friends who were inside with them. And some of them not managing to get people on the phone.

Now, let's hear some sound from people who were inside the club as this shooting happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HEDGE, SURVIVED SHOOTING: I just started hearing these big pops, pop, pop, pop. There was probably three or four. I hit the ground. I look up. The security guard is dead -- or I don't want to say dead, but he was shot; he was down. And he -- and the gunman was throwing smoke grenades all over the place. I saw him point to the back of the cash register. And he just started -- he just kept firing.

TEYLOR WHITTLER, SURVIVED SHOOTING: Everybody yelled get down. So I ran to the left of the dance floor where the back door is. And everyone pretty much dog piled on top of each other. And then all of a sudden, a couple guys that were closer to the bar, they got up and started running towards the back door and said, "Get up. He's coming."

TIM, SURVIVED SHOOTING: There were just young people, like young -- 18, 19, 20 -- just having a great time. And then this maniac came in and started shooting people, for no reason at all. These people have never hurt anybody in their lives, and they're just kids. They're just kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: So 12 victims here: 11 people inside the club plus that sheriff's sergeant.

No idea on the gunman yet. So obviously, no motive. We do not know why this happened. But we just heard from the Ventura County sheriff, and he said that the scene inside is horrific. It is a horrific scene. There is blood everywhere.

John and Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Nick, thank you very much for being on the scene for us.

Joining us now we have CNN law enforcement analyst James Gagliano.

James, you've been following this all morning. It sounds horrific. It sounds chaotic. I don't know where law enforcement starts when they go in and try to -- I mean, the sheriff there was being so circumspect, he wouldn't say who was -- who shot whom. He wouldn't say how it all happened, because he just doesn't know yet. Where do you start?

JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The sheriff in Ventura County was very measured and balanced in his words and first of all, tough and moving to listen to his trying to describe losing somebody that he -- that was a workout partner of his, the sheriff's deputy that was killed there.

[06:15:02] Law enforcement accepts a higher level of risk than all the rest of us. They go to the sound of the guns. It's the hazard of their chosen profession. It still doesn't make it any easier to watch and listen to that.

First and foremost, I think the sheriff wanted to make the point that this was not being considered a case of terrorism. Why is that important? Well, if it was, the FBI would have been a lead in this press conference. They would have stepped out in front.

CAMEROTA: He wasn't ruling it out? I couldn't tell?

GAGLIANO: Well, he said that they did not have any indicia of that at this point. So they are handling this as an active shooter.

Now, what would have caused them to think that that could have been a terrorism -- a case of terrorism? Something the shooter said, witnesses, eyewitnesses heard him say something, or they had some kind of evidence that they harvested from a home or from a vehicle that he used. And he said at this point, they do not know who this individual is or possibly know what his motive was.

BERMAN: There's a lot we don't know. We don't know who killed the shooter, whether he shot himself or whether it was the exchange of gunfire. We don't know the identity of the shooter. We don't know exactly how many weapons were used. The only weapon they found is a handgun at this point, though the sheriff made clear they're searching for the possibility of other weapons there. What's your take on that?

GAGLIANO: Biggest concern right now, John, obviously, the shooter is down. And that's good news for law enforcement. You don't have the ability to interrogate or interview this person, but he can't harm anybody else.

Biggest issue is, was there anybody that was in a conspiracy with this person? Are there future events that were planned by conspiracy? Did anybody provide aid or comfort or material support to this person? They've got to make sure that that's not the case.

Then they will work this painstakingly as a crime scene. Again, you can't put the deceased on trial, but from law enforcement's perspective, it is mitigating or getting in front of the next one.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We want to bring in now Steve Moore. He's a supervisor, a special agent with the -- formerly with the FBI. He is there in Thousand Oaks where this happened.

What are you seeing at the scene, Steve?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, seeing a lot of movement back and forth with different agencies coming in and going out. Obviously, we're not seeing what's going on, but I can tell you, and Jim will back me up on this, what they're doing right now is probably fingerprinting the suspect, trying to do anything they can to identify him. They're searching for any vehicles that have not been claimed that might belong to him, because that's the quickest two ways to identify him.

BERMAN: And let me just remind people who are just tuning in, because I know people are waking up. Twelve people killed inside the Borderline Bar and Grill in Ventura County, Thousand Oaks, California. It was a country music night there, every reason to believe the victims could be college students. It was a college night there. There are a number of colleges around there.

Eleven people killed inside. And Steve, we learn one more victim, and that is Sergeant Ron Helus, 29 years on the force.

MOORE: Yes.

BERMAN: Sergeant Helus was the first one in the door minutes after they got the 911 calls. He was the first to confront the shooter. He died at the hospital after. Reflect on his role here.

MOORE: This is textbook. And I've -- I was on SWAT in this -- in Los Angeles for the FBI. And I trained with departments in this area. Ron was a SWAT officer. He was a firearms instructor. He, more than anybody, knew exactly what needed to be done.

And this is tricky when you get multiple agencies arriving at these things. We've seen so many events where people haven't gone in. They've waited too long to go in.

The protocol here is when you get two officers, and it doesn't matter whether they're part of your department, they had a Ventura County sheriff's sergeant and a Highway Patrol officer doing mutual aid. They heard shots. They went in.

This is the way it's supposed to happen, but it's not the result that you're supposed to get. This is tragic, but it was about as perfect a response as you can imagine. And who knows how many more would have died had these two not gone in.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Sergeant Helus died at the hospital, we were told by the sheriff, an hour ago. He's survived by a wife and son. Twenty- nine years on the force. He started August 1989.

That's the only victim's name that we know right now because, again, the sheriff was very cautious, Jim, about not -- I mean, they still have to alert the families, he was saying. So they are still trying to get names of the victims. He wouldn't tell us the ages. But as John said, it was a college bar. It was filled with college kids. We know from the witnesses, they look young, the ones that we've interviewed. So we just know that other families are being notified right now.

GAGLIANO: That's a difficult thing that law enforcement has to do. They have to go to a parent or go to a spouse or family member and tell them that their loved one went to a club for a night of, you know, hanging out with friends and dancing, is not going to come home again.

For law enforcement, this is difficult, too, because a lot of the people, the witnesses -- we tell people all the time in these situations, run, hide, fight, tell. In that order.

[06:20:04] The difficult part of the tell is that, in crisis incidents, people go to what we call auditory exclusion, where they don't hear certain things or they hear things that didn't happen. Somebody heard 12 shots. Somebody heard one. Somebody heard 30 shots. Someone describes the gunman this way. Someone else describes it another way.

Law enforcement has to get to the bottom of that, make that discernment on exactly what was there.

We've heard short-barreled handgun. That's not typically what we would see used in a mass shooting like this. Now, there's 12 victims and potentially many more that are hurt that somebody was able to do with a handgun. That's telling.

It's also telling, witnesses have described a smoke grenade. Now, grenades are generally identified as fragmentation devices that we use in combat. What I think as I read the tactical tea leaves here, this was probably a flash bang diversionary device, which is what SWAT teams use. It's a distraction or, potentially, a military-grade smoke canister, something they used for obscuration.

BERMAN: Or, it could be witnesses just confused about what they're seeing in the frenzy of it. We often hear smoke devices -- this is one of the things, clearly, they'll try to figure out as time goes on. We also don't know, because there were earlier reports that perhaps it

was a security guard who was confronted when the shooter first went in. You know, it is a soft target. This is a bar. It was a bar in Orlando, the Pulse Nightclub, that was there. Presumably, there would be a guard at the door. But those are some of the details that are not clear yet.

GAGLIANO: John, very shortly we will hear people making the case, again, about armed guards at soft targets. Look, the synagogue, the yoga studio, a night clubs, these are classic soft targets, right? It's not like trying to get into a government building or trying to get onto a plane. We've hardened those targets.

The problem with the armed guard issue here is, even if you had an armed guard here -- you and I spoke about this earlier. Action is faster than reaction. That armed guard, in all likelihood, would have been the first casualty.

Now, the counter argument is, yes, but that's a deterrent. I think we to weigh that and look at that, and I think that's going to be a discussion we're going to hear in the next couple of days.

CAMEROTA: Steve, are there still lots of people around being interviewed? The sheriff said that there were people that had to take cover in the bathrooms. He described an attic where people were hiding, and we've seen some people, obviously, be interviewed by the media. Are there still people standing around?

MOORE: There are not people in the media area. They are probably up secured in the -- in the immediate area. I'm very familiar with the building. I've been in there several times.

And yes, I understand what they mean by the attic area. There are places that you can access fairly quickly. And as we saw in the Pulse Nightclub, people are going to go to the restrooms, lock themselves in as best they can.

The difference here is that police went in immediately. They didn't wait to interdict with armed force. So I think that is -- is probably the saving -- saving grace here.

BERMAN: Steven Moore and James, stand by, if you will. We have much more on this ahead.

I want to leave you with this. We are getting word that there was someone inside this Borderline Bar and Grill who survived the shooting in Las Vegas at the Route 91 music festival there. That country music festival. Think of that, that we have so many mass shootings now in this country that someone can be at more than one of them --

CAMEROTA: Oh, my God.

BERMAN: -- a year apart.

Much more on our breaking news coverage: 12 people killed by a gunman at a college bar in Ventura County, California. New details ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:27:10] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: We are following breaking news this morning. Twelve people have been killed in a bar in Southern California, including a sheriff's deputy. Hundreds of young people were inside this bar for college night.

Holden Harrah was one of those people inside, and his mother, Betty, joins us live from her home.

Betty, thank you very much for taking the time. We know that Holden survived this. He is safe. He is with you. But as we understand, he is talking to sheriff's investigators right now.

Can you tell us the situation of where he was and what he saw?

BETTY HARRAH, SON SURVIVED SHOOTING (via phone): Yes, he was across the floor of the entrance; and he saw a man come in in all black, he says. And the first thing he did is shot the girl that works there, that runs the front, which is his friend.

And everybody started screaming. And he fell to the ground, and he was trying to get out crawling on the ground. And he had somebody's hand, he said. He was pulling them out.

He heard about five shots. He said he did not see any smoke bombs going off. He just saw the man. And he crawled out the side. Everybody was running down the street. And he eventually got to his car and was just -- opened up his car door and was letting people jump in his car. Again, he took one little girl to the hospital who had a broken arm. That's basically what happened.

These people were throwing chairs to get out the -- at the windows to get out. It's really a tragic thing, because this is the one place that I, as crazy as this sounds, this is the one place that I think is the safest place for him to go because of all these things happening. And once a week he goes there, and I feel really good about it. And then now I get a call, and he was hysterical. Now it's here. It's just very tragic. It never happens here.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I understand. I mean, I understand that this was what he considered a safe haven. This is what all of the kids considered that. They went there to relax. They went there for a college night. And then, I mean, this just obviously illustrates that this kind of violence is tragically everywhere.

But where did your son hide? Was he hiding in the bar or, as I understand it, he may have run to, like, an adjacent building and hid? Where did he call you from?

HARRAH: He called me from a bathroom. He said he ran across the street, him and probably 20 other kids. He ran across the street, went into the gas station. And the attendant was standing there and told them, what are you doing? And he told him, "Lock the doors. There's a massive shooting going on."

And so the man locked the door; and they ran in the bathroom and locked the door in there, and he called me in there. He was crying.

CAMEROTA: And what did he say to you? I mean, when you got that call, describe that phone call to us.

HARRAH: I -- I said to him, where are you? Are you safe? And he -- I said, "I'm coming there." I was running there with my phone.

And he's telling me, "Don't come here, Mom. It's not safe."