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12 Killed And More Than A Dozen Hurt In California Mass Shooting; Fate Of Mueller Probe Unclear After Attorney General Jeff Sessions is Fired; Acting Attorney General Whitaker Openly Hostile Toward Mueller Russia Probe; President Trump Mocks GOP Candidates Who Did Not Embrace Him And Lost. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 08, 2018 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: -- the Russia investigation.

It's Matt Whitaker who has been openly hostile toward the Mueller investigation on T.V. and social media.

I want to bring in Jeffrey Toobin, a former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, and CNN political analysts David Gregory and Carl Bernstein.

Carl, I want to start with you. We're going to talk about Mueller a lot.

I do want to give you a moment to reflect on what we're seeing this morning -- 12 people killed in a mass shooting. And I've said it many times this morning -- the deadliest mass shooting in 12 days in the United States and that's the part that should stick with us.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, JOURNALIST, AUTHOR: Well, as journalists, I think we need to find some new way to cover these shootings as part of a national pathology.

I don't know the answer but I do believe we need to dig deep into, as we have with racial questions in the past. Perhaps we've had commissions, one thing and another, but what is this about that makes us somewhat unique that these events keep repeating themselves in the horrible fashion that they do?

And again, I think there's a journalistic challenge but I don't know the answer to it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no one does. I mean, we just feel helpless. We just report on it over and over.

BERNSTEIN: Well, I think there's a deeper story. I think there's a deeper story.

Again, I use the word national pathology. I don't know what that is but I think there is a journalistic task at hand as well, obviously, a task for our leaders, both moral, political, business -- everyone to start looking at why this is the kind of part of our culture that it is.

BERMAN: Jeffrey, I want to move to the Mueller investigation if I can because the last 24 hours, it's not just another day.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right.

BERMAN: It is not just another day.

TOOBIN: Right.

BERMAN: The president fired the attorney general of the United States -- demanded his resignation, but it's a firing -- and replaced him. The acting attorney general is a man, by all accounts, who was chosen because he is hostile to the Mueller investigation.

TOOBIN: And he's now in charge of the Mueller investigation. And the question is what will he do to manifest to make real his hostility to the Mueller investigation?

Obviously, at one extreme, he can fire Mueller. It doesn't appear like he's going to that imminently. But as he, himself -- Mr. Whitaker has talked about, he could limit the budget, he could limit the jurisdiction, he could limit the kinds of investigatory tools he can use.

He can say I am not going to allow you to subpoena the President of the United States. That's my order as your supervisor.

So, how Whitaker implements his control of the Mueller investigation is now the -- is now -- the big question for him. We know it's going to be different than Rod Rosenstein --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

TOOBIN: -- because he has a -- Rod Rosenstein has been supportive of Mueller from day one.

CAMEROTA: And, David Gregory, what we know is that Whitaker does not believe that Robert Mueller has broad, far-reaching powers. He believes it should be a more narrow parameter. He has said as much in an op-ed and in television.

So now what?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, right. That's the important question. And no doubt, he got this job because he passed the most important test, which was supporting the president on television.

And the president has said that he wants -- there's the bigger of the question of the loyalty that this president demands that he wants an attorney general to protect him.

Now, look, this is so far down the line -- this investigation.

My initial thought was would the president really want the consequences that would come with shutting down the probe? But this is also a president who threatened to use his Senate majority to resist any check and balance that would come from the House that is now controlled by Democrats.

So I can answer my presumed naivety by saying he would do anything.

The question is what will Congress do, right? So if there's any attempt to, say, limit or cut off an expansion of the probe or to force the conclusion of the investigation -- presumably, Mueller has thought about this.

And as I talked to lawyers yesterday -- and this is a question for Jeffrey -- if he's got a report, and let's say it's ready to go, could he already have the authority from Rosenstein to send that to Congress? Could he have -- if there's indictments, could he have those under seal? And is Whitaker in a position, potentially, to countermand that?

And then, the question about Congress. Republicans in the Senate, Mitch McConnell and others, have said that Mueller should be able to finish his work. In light of the midterm elections, you know, some expansion of the majority in the Senate -- will they stick to that? That's the leadership test.

[07:35:00] TOOBIN: Can I just address one of the very important points that David just raised -- the report. Under the regulation under which Mueller is appointed, the report goes to his supervisor --

GREGORY: Yes.

TOOBIN: -- now, Whitaker, the acting attorney general. Whitaker is under no -- the regulation does not say specifically what he's supposed to do with that.

BERMAN: He can take it home.

TOOBIN: He could take it home --

BERMAN: Leave it in the night safe.

TOOBIN: -- leave it in a safe, and never share it with anyone. Or he could make it public, he could send it to Congress. I mean, this is one of the most critical responsibilities that Whitaker now has as the supervisor of the Mueller investigation.

What does he do with this report that he will receive -- and it may be more than one report? One report, in the some reporting I've done, suggests that there will be a report that Mueller does about obstruction of justice about the firing of James Comey, separate from any report about the Russia part of his --

BERMAN: Let me -- let me --

BERNSTEIN: Let me make a suggestion on one other aspect here.

BERMAN: Hang on one second. Just one second -- just one second, Carl.

And my understanding also, Whitaker could literally stand in the way of an indictment if he wanted to. If Mueller wanted to indict someone tomorrow or this week, Whitaker could say no.

TOOBIN: Absolutely.

BERMAN: All right. Go ahead, Carl.

BERNSTEIN: I think we need to look at this in a larger context of Donald Trump trying to both spy on the Mueller investigation himself and constrain it. And I say that based on some knowledge, not just speculation, because what I was told -- as were some other people working on these stories before the election -- that after Election Day, Trump was determined to constrain, bury the Mueller investigation. To look toward what he was going to do in terms of, perhaps, pardons.

But his great frustration, as anyone around him will tell you, has been he doesn't know what's going on in the Mueller investigation.

He now has -- unless Whitaker has -- is going to immediately recuse himself, he now has a spy camera into the investigation.

GREGORY: Well, you -- but you also, Carl, have --

BERNSTEIN: Jeffrey, do you -- do you think that is right?

TOOBIN: Well, yes, but he is the supervisor.

BERNSTEIN: This has been what he has lost and not had. It's one of the reasons that he wanted to fire Comey.

BERMAN: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: Comey wouldn't tell him what was going on in the investigation.

He now has the ability to know what's going on, including how that office -- Mr. Mueller -- is looking at his son-in-law, at his son. So, Trump now is in --

GREGORY: But he may already know a lot of things that are making him upset, you know. I mean, that's --

BERNSTEIN: Yes. He knows things that are making him upset. But I can tell you that I have heard from people around Trump his frustration is partly he does not know and has not known --

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: As much as he wants.

BERNSTEIN: -- the big aspects of this investigation are about.

GREGORY: And -- but let's also point that the guardrails that have been in place, you know, whether it was Don McGahn, his counsel, whether it was the attorney general or whether it was Republican leaders telling him not to fire Mueller. Not to act on any of those impulses. Are those now removed? I mean, the one question I've had is he had the ability to fire

Rosenstein before. Remember, "The New York Times" reporting about him suggesting, they said jokingly, about people wearing a wire and resisting the president, et cetera.

We know he's wanted to fire Sessions since the very beginning. He -- what gave him pause -- or at least those around him -- was oh, it would have these terrible consequences politically, and he held off.

CAMEROTA: After the midterms.

GREGORY: Now, does he now throw all of that out? Is he not worried about the consequences for himself for 2020? I don't know the answer to that --

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean --

GREGORY: -- but he exercised some restraint.

CAMEROTA: I think we know of some of the answers that he did it seconds after the midterms.

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: He did it seconds -- there were still results coming in.

BERMAN: There still are results coming.

CAMEROTA: There still are results coming in. Twenty-twenty is a long way away.

TOOBIN: Well, but the political scenario has changed in a --

BERMAN: Yes.

TOOBIN: -- different way as well. Democrats now control the House of Representatives.

GREGORY: Right.

TOOBIN: He also has to be concerned about the Judiciary Committee subpoenaing Robert Mueller to testify about what's going on. So --

BERMAN: Two months from now. Two months from now, but it will happen if anything --

TOOBIN: Yes.

BERMAN: -- if anything like that goes on.

Jeffrey Toobin, Carl Bernstein, David Gregory, thank you very much.

GREGORY: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Of course, we're staying on top of the breaking news this morning. Another deadly mass shooting in America. Twelve people killed in a Southern California bar.

We have many more details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:04] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: We are following breaking news. Twelve people killed in a mass shooting inside a bar in Southern California.

One of the victims is a 29-year sheriff's deputy, Ron Helus, from Ventura County. He was killed trying to save people inside the bar. His boss said that Ron Helus died a hero.

At least a dozen others are injured.

Police say the suspected gunman is dead.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

You know, there was a mass shooting in Connecticut --

REP. JIM HIMES, (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning, John.

BERMAN: -- at Sandy Hook in Newtown, so you have some connection. But everyone has a connection at this point because of the number of mass shootings that have taken place in this country.

So, what were your thoughts -- first thoughts when you woke up to the news this morning?

HIMES: Well, I'm embarrassed to say, John, as you alluded to, my first thought was here we go again. It's this week's mass shooting. And, you know, that's a really hard way to think about this.

I contrast where we are today with how we all felt about Sandy Hook which was, obviously, in magnitude and in what happened with young children being killed, particularly appalling.

But this is -- this is a weekly thing. And even though it's become a weekly thing nobody does anything, especially the Congress where I work. Thirty-five thousand Americans dead a year as a result of gun violence and Congress can't even find its way to studying the problem.

And in the meantime, John, I worry that, as I said, we become desensitized to this. The kind of thing that should cause the country to rise up and say we will change this tomorrow is just this week's mass shooting.

BERMAN: Democrats are taking control in January. Do you think that the new majority should do something -- launch some kind of a study?

HIMES: Well, we should do more than launch a study. Again, we know some things that will help here because we've done them, for example, here in the state of Connecticut without actually impinging on anybody's Second Amendment rights.

[07:45:07] An assault weapon ban, universal background check, limits on the kinds of technology that people can buy. It works -- we know it works. So yes, we should study it but we should also do some things that are saving lives in various states.

Now, the House will do this. Of course, the Senate, under Republican control, will promptly bury whatever effort is undertaken by the House. But look, we'll be better off in this realm than we were a year ago.

BERMAN: I should note, as of now, only a handgun has been recovered at the scene. We don't know if that handgun was bought legally or illegally, but no evidence of an assault weapon. You mention the assault weapon ban in Connecticut.

Two weeks ago in Pittsburgh, there was an assault weapon. That's how many of these shootings are. You can one to the other and look at the similarities and differences.

Congressman, you're on the Intelligence Committee so I want to pivot if I can. The news that the president fired Robert Mueller (sic) and replaced him. The acting attorney general is Matt Whitaker, someone who has been hostile to the Mueller investigation.

Do you see this as a move by the president if not to end it, to control the Mueller investigation?

HIMES: Oh, of course, it is. I mean, we don't even need to debate that, right?

I mean, we've got the record on Twitter, right? The President of the United States, for well over a year, has hated his attorney general, not for any particular reason other than the fact that the attorney general recused himself from overseeing the investigation.

And, of course, the president has gone after Rod Rosenstein.

So look, there's no question that that is what is happening here. It's not like the president disagreed with Jeff Sessions' legal philosophy or thought he was a bad manager of the Department of Justice. This is very clearly a way to put -- to put his guy, Whitaker, in charge of the investigation. That's a very, very scary thing.

Now, the good news is, of course, we are a country of laws. There are all sorts of restrictions on what the attorney general -- the new acting attorney general can do.

And, as you pointed out before, with Democratic control of Congress. Congress is Article 1 -- it is -- it is a very powerful entity and already, letters have gone out demanding the preservation of documents.

You know, there will be, of course, an investigation here about whether the president deliberately did this to obstruct the investigation.

And, you know, so the world and history will be watching every move that the acting attorney general takes from here on out.

BERMAN: Well, the president, at a news conference yesterday -- a conference that he held after he had ordered Sessions to be fired -- issued a threat to you -- to Democrats in the House. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: If they start investigating you, that you can play that game and investigation them.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, better than them. They can play that game, but we can play it better because we have a thing called the United States Senate.

REPORTER: Can you compartmentalize that and still continue to work with them for the benefit of the rest of the country or --

TRUMP: No. If they do that, then just all it is a warlike posture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, you investigate him, he's coming after you.

HIMES: Yes, well, not a -- not a surprising point of view from this president who doesn't understand how the government works.

Congress, again, Article 1. We've got the right and, in fact, we've got the constitutional duty to provide a check and a balance on the President of the United States.

And no, this is not a hockey game where he gets to mobilize his A-Team against our A-Team. That is not how this works.

You know, yes, he has an investigative apparatus. He has the FBI. The FBI, of course, is constrained by law.

Despite what this president thinks, the FBI is not his -- is not a group of political storm troopers that is designed to get Nancy Pelosi -- or whoever it might be -- back for launching an investigation.

Now, the other thing I would note here, John. Even though the president describes a government that is not how this works, we've seen the results of the endless Republican political investigations and I go back to Benghazi, the Clinton e-mails.

Whatever the fantasy is of the moment of the Republicans, their investigations, without exception, turn up nothing -- absolutely nothing. Years of Benghazi investigation that turned up absolutely nothing.

The Mueller investigation, of course, has resulted in indictment after indictment, conviction, guilty pleas. So, even though we're not going to go to a tit-for-tat world, if that's where we wound up, bring it on because the investigations of the last 12 years from the Republicans have all ended, without exception, and proven to be complete political shams.

BERMAN: All right.

Congressman Jim Himes from Connecticut, thank you for being with us this morning.

HIMES: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, John.

So at that combative post-election news conference that the president held yesterday, he also mocked Republicans who he said did not embrace him.

[07:50:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In the House, Republicans dramatically outperformed historical precedence and overcame a historic number of retirements.

REPORTER: There were so many retirements.

TRUMP: In Jeff Flake's case, it's me, pure and simple. I retired him. I'm very proud of it. I did the country a great service.

You had some that decided to -- let's stay away -- let's stay away. They did very poorly.

Mia Love gave me no love and she lost. Too bad. Sorry about that, Mia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is retiring Republican Congressman Ryan Costello of Pennsylvania.

Congressman, what did you think of the president's language there?

REP. RYAN COSTELLO (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think that there's a quote that talks about what it takes to be a good leader, and a good leader shares credit when things go well and shoulders the blame when things don't. And the president has decided that he often takes credit for things that he didn't do and blames others when he should be taking the blame.

Those members lost because the president's unfavorability in those districts was so sky-high that it was impossible to differentiate yourself from him. So, he's just not correct with what he says.

I also think it's a little bit embarrassing to have a Republican president attack Republican members of Congress who really have been the offensive line for a lot of legislative successes.

I'm a Republican, OK? I am mindful that many of the viewers this morning might be Democrats and maybe voted for Democrats rather than Republicans. But as a Republican Congressman who voted in favor and advanced an agenda which I think has largely been positive legislatively, to have the president say that about some of my colleagues is, I think, very disrespectful.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: And it points to a larger issue and that is how are you supposed to rely on the president for any element of support when the moment he has an opportunity to just be negative toward you he does it?

CAMEROTA: Congressman, I hear you I think sort of measuring your words this morning in a way that you didn't on Twitter. I'll just read what your first take was on the president's position.

You wrote, "To deal with harassment and filth spewed at GOP members of Congress in tough seats every day for two years because of the president, to bite your lip more times than you care to, to disagree and separate from the president on principle and civility in your campaign, to lose because of the president and to have him piss on you angers me --

COSTELLO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- to my core."

So who did he --

COSTELLO: And just to -- just to --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: No. Just to reiterate, I stand by everything that I said there. I'm trying to be a little bit more elegant on your lovely morning show but I will -- I will certainly stand behind those words.

CAMEROTA: We appreciate that. The people are eating breakfast. But I just wanted to read your exact words because it sounds like you were really angry.

COSTELLO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And so, what do you mean "the filth"? What do you mean, "the filth" that he's spewed?

COSTELLO: Well, I think they were some good words, too.

Well, so when you are a Republican in a competitive seat you've got a lot of incoming negative personal invective from people across this country, people in your district, people protesting. People calling you every name in the book because you are a Republican and because their hatred and contempt isn't towards you, it's toward the president.

And so when you're in a tough suburban seat, as I have been, they may attack the president but they focus a lot of their attacks -- personal attacks on you. So you, as a member of Congress, are the one that bears the brunt of their contempt for this president.

And so then, you have a member of -- a Republican member of Congress lose a race because of the president. And then, the president attacks you because you are trying to distinguish yourself as an independent member of Congress. So you get it from both sides.

And the president doesn't -- he not only doesn't appreciate that he attacks you for that. And he's blind to the fact that it was him that made it so difficult for you to --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: -- run a race. And then when you lose that race he attacks you for losing.

I mean, it's just absolutely so mind-blowing and insulting as to warrant the kind of tweet that I tweeted.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, Congressman Ryan Costello, you are retiring and getting out of this racket. But, you know, I just have to say on the other side, for the most part, the people who embraced President Trump and who he campaigned with did win.

And I'm sorry that we don't have more time but we have all sorts of breaking news this morning.

Congressman Costello, thank you very much for sharing your words with us -- John.

COSTELLO: Good to be with you -- thanks.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

BERMAN: The breaking news this morning, a mass shooting overnight. Twelve people killed in California.

[07:55:02] We're getting new details. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. We do have some breaking news.

Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, November eighth, 8:00 now in the east.

And we begin with horrible breaking news for you. There's been another deadly mass shooting in America, the second in less than two weeks. Police say a gunman opened fire inside a Southern California bar that was filled with college kids. Authorities say 12 people are dead, including a sheriff's deputy. He was a veteran sergeant of the Ventura County Sheriff's Department for 29 years. Ron Helus was killed trying to save people inside that bar.

The sheriff spoke about him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF GEOFF DEAN, VENTURA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, VENTURA, CALIFORNIA: Ron was a hardworking, dedicated sheriff's sergeant. He was totally committed. He gave his all.

And tonight, as I told his wife, he died a hero because he went -- he went in to save lives -- to save other people.