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Vote Recounts May Be Triggered in Florida Gubernatorial and Senatorial Races; President Trump Replaces Jeff Sessions with Matt Whitaker as Acting Attorney General. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 09, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is the headline in "The Miami Herald." "The state that brought you the 2000 presidential recount will try to out-do itself in 2018." Three head races appear headed to a recount including the incredibly high profile Senate and governor's races. So forget election day. This really could be election months there, or month at least, and it could make the memory of hanging chads sound quaint.

The bitterness and partisan accusations, they are off the charts already. In the Senate race, the Republican nominee, Rick Scott, is clinging to a tiny and shrinking lead that is well within the margin of triggering an automatic recount, about 15,000 votes. But Scott, who is the current governor from the governor's mansion, alleges rampant fraud in Broward and Palm Beach counties without proof. He says Democrats are trying to steal both races. These are the same two counties that became somewhat legendary for their vote counting issues in the 2000 presidential election. The Scott campaign is suing the election supervisors in both counties. The Democratic rival, the incumbent Bill Nelson, calls those lawsuits politically motivated.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The race for governor in Florida may also be heading to a recount. Republican Ron DeSantis is clinging to a 0.4 percent lead over Andrew Gillum. Gillum already conceded but now says he wants to make sure that every vote is counted. Right now the ballots in Broward County is coming under scrutiny. If you take a look at your screen, you may understand why. Some believe the design of the ballot caused confusion. Thousands of people who voted in the governor's race did not vote in the Senate contest. So why was that other than they couldn't find it on the ballot?

Also this morning, breaking news in southern California. There are wild fires that are raging out of control, burning homes. It is spreading quickly. We will have a live report in just minutes for you.

BERMAN: First, let's discuss the election recounts battles. Joining us, Jeffrey Toobin, legal analyst, CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, and Florida reporter for "Politico" Marc Caputo. Marc, we're decide who the governor and Senator in Florida will be. In my mind there is no controversy who the president is. I think you're the president of Florida, at least when it comes to reporting there. So explain to me what's happening in Broward County. What's the issue as you see it? Why don't we have results yet? MARC CAPUTO, FLORIDA POLITICAL REPORTER, "POLITICO": It's a

multifaceted question because Broward County is very often a mess when it comes to elections, and this is no exception. The big problem is that Broward County seems to have a problem tabulating votes quickly. It is the second largest county in the state, but Miami-Dade County, which is even larger, was able to upload all of its ballots, its early vote ballots, its election day ballots in a timely fashion, and Broward just wasn't. And that's not really out of the ordinary for Broward. It has historically been slow.

Compounding that problem is the fact that Broward County's election supervisor either refused to give or didn't have the number of outstanding ballots after Election Day to be counted. And then thousands of votes kept showing up. And so, those who are, let's say, on the south end of watching their margin shrink, Republican Ron DeSantis for governor and Governor Rick Scott is running for Senate, started to raise a concern that like, hey, look, this is so disorganized, we have no idea where these ballots are coming from, and we're not being given any information. They put in records requests, and then the next thing you know they're suing because they're saying, look, we're not getting the public records that we're asking for, i.e. the ability to inspect these ballots who we can tally them or a list of the number of ballots outstanding to be counted.

In the absence of information, conspiracy theories will fester, especially in very tight elections, and that's what we have here.

CAMEROTA: Great point. And so, Jeffrey, thousands of ballots kept showing up. That doesn't sound good. Of course it's mass confusion. Of course people are suspect about what's happening and where it is. And I don't even know how a recount would solve some of these problems.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I think it actually would solve a lot of these problems because eventually all the ballots will appear, and then you will look at what they show. Remember, all of us, I was in Florida for the whole 36 days in 2000.

BERMAN: You were golfing.

(LAUGHTER)

TOOBIN: I was not. I was not. The chads everybody remembers.

BERMAN: Singulars chad.

TOOBIN: Singulars chad. The punch card ballot, they're all gone. They don't have those sorts of ballots any more. They are optical scan ballots like the standardized test, which are a lot easier to determine.

CAMEROTA: No, clearly there was some confusion.

TOOBIN: There was some confusion about where the ballots were, but once they all surfaced, the recount itself should not be as problematic as it was in 2000. CAMEROTA: But I mean the one we put up on the screen where they

couldn't find -- after a series of very small print instructions, then you get to the vote for, what, Senate at the bottom?

TOOBIN: Yes, yes.

CAMEROTA: And so that one was missed by a lot of people.

[08:05:03] TOOBIN: Ballot design is a very big issue. In 2000 ballot design was a huge issue in Palm Beach County where there was the so called butterfly ballot which led a lot of people voting for Pat Buchanan who meant to vote for Al Gore. Without question that cost Al Gore the election. You can't cure a ballot design problem in a recount. If they didn't vote, they didn't vote. That issue is off the table. But if the ballots are found, then those will be counted.

BERMAN: There could be as many as 24,000, too. But you're right, the end game for Bill Nelson there is it just sucks for him. If it was all due to ballot design that those votes weren't counted, nothing will ever come of it. Maeve, it's striking to me that there could be a legal battle here, there could be a political battle, but there is very much a public relations battle. And the Republicans have learned the lessons from the example they set in 2000 here. That's right Rick Scott is out there at the governor's mansion charging fraud. You have to set the narrative that you are having this stolen from you. The fact that Andrew Gillum conceded on election night is a huge problem for the Democrats because just from a public relations standpoint it is hard to unconcede.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Right. And, of course, that's so unusual that we, at this moment in time, have the president intervening via tweet after that very blistering statement last night from Rick Scott about the two lawsuits that he has filed against officials in Broward County and Palm Beach County. And it is just so unusual that you would have this situation where, in fact, the chief executive is ordering his department of law enforcement to look into what he considers to be potential voter fraud and tampering here.

I will point out, though, that there are also just questions, and Marc alluded to this, but questions about Broward County competence. On the other side I spoke to a teacher last night that found this box marked provisional ballots in a storage area where voters had been voting on Tuesday. And she brought this to the attention of a state representative who then took it to the Broward County Elections Board, and he was just told, well, there is just election paper in there without anyone as far as he knew going out to check and see what was in this box. So there are concerns on both sides about what's happening with ballots, and it seems like this is just a controversy that is going to go on for weeks, if not months.

CAMEROTA: Marc, none of this gives us confidence. Are there competent people in Broward County and south Florida that are going to be able to take charge of this and figure it out?

CAPUTO: Well, as alluded to earlier by Jeff Toobin, is that they are going to do a recount. And because FDLE is going to be there, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, it is going to be done under the watchful eye of investigators. So we're going to have a final result, and it's going to be rather clear.

I do wonder if Brenda Snipes, who is the Broward County election supervisor, we mentioned this today in our stories on "Politico," "Politico Playbook," I have to plug that, is that she doesn't look like she's necessarily going to survive this. There are mounting calls from the left, from the right, and the center to remove her from office. Brenda Snipes predecessor in 2003 was removed from office by the Florida Senate after she was suspended by Governor Jeb Bush for incompetence because she botched the 2002 gubernatorial primary in Broward County, statewide in Florida. So we're looking probably at more of the same for Brenda Snipes after the smoke clears here. There are just numerous, numerous cases where Snipes has been sued and successfully so for mismanaging the handling of ballots, also for destroying ballots that have been requested by a former Congressional candidate for review, and the like. There's just case after case after case. And on the right, left, and center, people say, yes, this does not inspire confidence whatsoever in our system.

TOOBIN: Can I just make one point? The margin here in the governor's race is 16,000 votes. The margin, I'm sorry. in the Senate race is 16,000. The margin in the governor's race is 35,000. That's pretty big. Recounts rarely shift that much. Remember, the Gore/Bush recount was 500 votes, very different from a matter of thousands.

BERMAN: That is totally, absolutely true. The one thing I will say is they're actually not done counting yet, though, and one of the unknowns is how many votes are still out there, which is so frustrating.

TOOBIN: But if the final margin before the recount is something like this, it seems almost inconceivable the numbers --

BERMAN: Two things need to happen. It needs to get much narrower, and there would be a recount --

TOOBIN: The final numbers.

BERMAN: I think it's interesting, if you look at what's happening in Florida and you look at the president's statement on this, I think that's part of a bigger thing here because there are also tight races still in dispute in Georgia.

[08:10:06] For instance, where Stacey Abrams has not conceded yet. In Arizona where they're still counting votes and Kyrsten Sinema is now in front, the Democrat is now in front there. And in California, where you are, there are still a bunch of House races where they are still counting. It seems to me the president knows this. The president knows there are elections still in dispute, and elections he cares a lot of about, particularly this one in Arizona, because this would be a flip from R to D, and this is him calling fraud and foul before the game has even begun.

RESTON: That's exactly right. And, of course, it's once again President Trump doing a very good job at changing the narrative. I mean, what we are seeing, particularly out west in Arizona and in these California House races where it may be weeks before we know who the actual winner is, is that the narrative on election night about this being a very good night for Republicans in the Senate and potentially not quite a blue wave for Democrats, that could all change. We don't know yet. It could be a much better night for Democrats in the end. And, so, President Trump is trying to take control of the narrative here and change the subject certainly from what happened with Jeff Sessions this week and what may happen in the Justice Department. Of course, voter fraud is the favorite topic of Republicans, so he would very much like the conversation to go in that direction, John.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jeffrey, let's move on to Matt Whitaker. So he is the new acting attorney general. Many -- some legal scholars, including George Conway, Kellyanne Conways's husband in an op-ed calls his appointment unconstitutional and illegal. Do you agree?

TOOBIN: I don't agree, actually. I think the president does have the power to do this. But I think there are really two issues about Whitaker here. One is, is his appointment legal? There is basically no one who can file a lawsuit to challenge it. Even if technically this is not a legal appointment, I don't think any court is going to remove him from office. No one would have legal standing to file that lawsuit. So that's mostly a theoretical debate about whether it's legal.

The second issue is, is he qualified? Is he competent? Is he appropriate person for the job? As more facts come out about his background, the stuff he has said about the Mueller investigation, his views about the Constitution which seem way, way out of the mainstream.

BERMAN: Talking about that Marbury versus Madison, which is one of those cases that is kind of foundational for the country.

TOOBIN: In 1803, which was basically the case that established judicial review. It's the case that said the courts have the right to declare acts of Congress unconstitutional, a basic, fundamental, core principle of constitutional law. He's criticized that. Also reports that CNN ran last night about Whitaker's own business dealings with a company he represented and was part of that was essentially shut down by the Federal Trade Commission as a fraudulent enterprise. When you add this up, his extremely bizarre constitutional views, his dubious business history, his questionable statements, or highly biased statements about the Mueller investigation, why he is installed as the attorney general of the United States is a difficult question to answer.

BERMAN: I'm not so sure it is. I think it may be the easiest question in the world to answer.

TOOBIN: Well, Mr. Berman, why don't you --

BERMAN: The answer is he was installed -- Jeff Sessions was fired 10 minutes after the election because of the political issues with mixing it up before the election went away and the president wants protection in the Mueller probe. The president wants protection in the Mueller probe, and now he's got it. He's got a guy inside the investigation who can approve indictments or not.

And politically speaking, and Caputo, I'll give you the last word here on this, the same day that he fired Sessions and put his own guy in charge of the investigation, he also warned Democrats that if you investigate me, I'm coming after you. It seems to me he's challenged Democrats to go against him in this case. And I'm not quite sure I know what Democrats are going to do.

CAPUTO: Understand that Donald Trump made this midterm a referendum on himself because he already knew it would be. And this is pretty simple and I think President Trump understands the logic of votes. If you have more votes, you win more often. He won. He won in the United States Senate, and the United States Senate ultimately decides confirmations and the like. And until that dynamic changes, President Trump is going to be very aggressive and perhaps even more aggressive in pursuing his agenda than he ever was.

Yes, he does have the check of the United States House which is now going to be in Democratic hands, but from Trump's perspective, when you look at the United States Senate and you look at his second home in Florida where both of his handpicked candidates won, Trumpism won, Florida is Trump country, and he believes he is in great shape to win in 2020. And so far the election results don't necessarily conflict with that idea.

BERMAN: Marc Caputo, Maeve Reston, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.

TOOBIN: A little premature I would say, but we shall see.

CAMEROTA: Today is snapshot -- today is snapshot of that.

BERMAN: I wasn't making a categorical comment I was just saying that so far it doesn't really conflict with us so far.

TOOBIN: Caputo, you're a smart guy, I'm with you.

BERMAN: All right thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Cody Coffman was among the 12 people murdered inside a southern California bar by a deranged gun man. A friend who was with him say's he saved her life. An incredible story next.

(COMMERICAL)

CAMEROTA: Sarah DeSon was inside that southern California bar with her friend Cody Coffman when a gunman opened fire. His fire was grief stricken when he spoke out just after learning that his son was killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JASON COFFMAN, CODY COFFMAN'S FATHER: I talked to him last night before he headed out the door. First thing I said was please don't drink and drive. Last thing I said was son, I love you. That was the last thing I said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: A short time ago, I spoke with Cody's friend Sarah DeSon about that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH DESON, MASSARCE SURVIVOR: This was like my third time at Borderline where I was with Cody or I met with up Cody and we were just messing around like playful like fighting each other and I soon -- I kind of turned to him and like poked him or like kind of hit him to get his attention because we were just doing that all night.

[08:20:00]

And when -- as soon as I turned to him and did that, that's when something happened and we both looked towards the door because we were kind of facing toward the door and we looked and that's when the gunshots started happening.

And he said to drop down, so I fell to the ground with me.

CAMEROTA: So Cody told you to get down and then what happened?

DESON: I was behind him and I tucked myself into his back. Kind of, I don't know, just laying there in a ball and then I just remember I looked behind me and there was a smoke bomb going off and I think it was Cody who had like told me it's a smoke bomb. And that's when I was -- I saw him get up and apparently -- when he got up I knew I needed to go.

And I guess he got up and stood up and said get out and that's one of the reasons my friend Cheyenne was able to get out because she knew when Cody stood up and said, like -- you should, you should like -- when he said something that's when she was able to like escape and same for me.

I was -- when I knew he was up I was following what he was doing. I was so like shocked that I had no clue how to react and I just -- I just did what he did and when he said leave and when he got up, I left and I saw one opening and I ran for it and unfortunately he wasn't behind me.

CAMEROTA: How did you get the news that Cody was still in there and was killed?

DESON: All night I texted him and I -- when I was finally was like OK, we can call him. I called him and it was like nothing and I was worried and we had our friends around and I just asking like have you heard from Cody?

Has anyone found Cody? Where is Cody?

And I finally -- after -- when I finally got to my friends house at about 7 in the morning that's when her mom was on the phone and she confirmed to us that he had passed away and it was -- it was absolutely heartbreaking.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We had a really heartbreaking conversation with his dad yesterday just really minutes before his dad got the confirmation and his dad was holding out hope just like you were. And his dad kind of knew what Cody would've been doing in that bar that night, so let me just play this moment for you.

COFFMAN: I'm afraid that Cody ran to the gunman instead of ran away from the gunman. That's the kind of boy that Cody was or is.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COFFMAN: I'm sure he was there helping, shielding anything -- or anybody that he could. I know that he went there with a few of his girlfriends so I'm hoping that he's OK.

CAMEROTA: Sarah, it sounds like that is what was happening -- that he was shielding you.

DESON: Yes. He -- Cody was an amazing man and selfless in a way -- and I know he was put here to protect people. He was a very -- that's why I keep calling him my hero because he was here for a reason to protect people. I knew at one point he wanted to join the Navy or something like that and I know that's what his calling was -- to make sure people were safe.

[08:25:00]

And when he -- what he did last night, he made sure people were and now we all have a beautiful guardian angel watching over us and that's -- all we can do is pray and hope for peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Yes. Some people are built differently than the rest of us and some people know what to do in a moment like that and they shield their friends and they protect their friends and they're not the first to run for the door.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And that sounds like -- I mean his father, Cody's father when we talked to him yesterday in that really horrible time period while he was waiting before he knew what had actually happened to Cody.

He knew that is what his son would've done -- that would've been his son's first instinct.

BERMAN: Isn't that amazing? He told you, he goes I think my son would've been the type to protect. Some people are just built different than others. I think that goes for Sarah also. Can you imagine having the poise to have the discussion that she just had today? The day after she went through what she did?

CAMEROTA: No. It's a long -- it's going to be a long road as we know for these folks because the mental scars will be with them forever and another person who's obviously built differently is Sergeant Ron Helus.

He ran towards the danger even when he didn't have backup in order to try to stop the gunman from killing more people. People believe he was able to do that...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Look at these pictures, people lining up as his body was being moved there.

CAMEROTA: Yes, spontaneously.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean he really is (ph) treatment for a hero that is very, very much deserved.

CAMEROTA: That's so beautiful. He was on the force for 29 years. He was considering retiring in the next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We know that he had a wife and a son and I guess none of that mattered when all this went down and he ran towards the danger.

BERMAN: Well he did it for them -- he did it for all of us.

We continue to follow breaking news in southern California, raging wild fires burning homes forcing thousands to execute, up next one families frantic ordeal fleeing one of these fires.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh God no, we passed it. What are we doing to do?

BERMAN: More on their desperate escape next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)