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Sessions Speaks Out; Acting AG Talked Biblical View; Democrats to Protect Mueller; Lawsuits in Florida Senate Race; Obama's New Book. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 09, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I didn't know Matt Whitaker. He worked for Attorney General Sessions. He was very, very highly thought of. And still is highly thought of. But this only comes up because anybody that works for me, they do a number on them. But Matt Whitaker is a very smart man. He is a very respected man in the law enforcement community. Very respected. A the top of the line. And actually the choice was greeted with raves initially and it still is in some circles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's bring in our senior White House correspondent Pamela Brown.

Pamela, now we're hearing from Sessions for the first time as well since he was ousted as the attorney general. What's he saying?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

In the wake of his resignation, Wolf, he did an exclusive interview with "The Wall Street Journal," where he defended the Mueller probe, but he also said he believes it has been going on for too long, calling the length of the probe unhealthy. But he said he believes that the country is committed to its course. But he did defend it, saying that he believes it has been done appropriately and with justification.

During this interview with "The Wall Street Journal," he was also asked whether he ever, you know, feels like he shouldn't have recused himself from the Mueller probe. And he said he doesn't have any regrets, that no one is above being supervised. And if he had to do it all over again, Wolf, he would recuse himself, even though that is what initially drew the ire of the president over many months and eventually led to his ousting by the president just a couple of days ago.

Wolf.

BLITZER: The president says he doesn't know Whitaker, although in an interview not that long ago he says he does know him. In any case, how can he be appointed the acting attorney general if the president really says -- BROWN: Right.

BLITZER: As he said several times today, I don't know the guy?

BROWN: Well, that's the exact sentiment that current and former officials I've been speaking to today have said. And what's interesting here is that you see the president trying to distance himself from Matt Whitaker amid this criticism when he publically criticized the probe in the past. But he told Fox News not long ago that he did know Matt Whitaker. So he's changing this tune, which is a familiar pattern with the president whenever there is someone that he's associated with that's embroiled in controversy. In this case, Matt Whitaker's past comments have been under scrutiny where he said -- suggested that the Mueller probe was a fishing expedition, that it was ridiculous. Some critics say he should recuse himself as a result.

But I can tell you, Wolf, from my reporting, as well as my colleagues, that Donald Trump and Matt Whitaker have forged a relationship here at the White House over this past several months. As the relationship between the president and Jeff Sessions deteriorated, it was Matt Whitaker who would often step in, in these meetings at the White House to brief the president.

Now, sources say that they were in several meetings together at the White House, group meetings for the most part. They also spoke on the phone on several occasions according to sources. One White House official I spoke to today, a former official I should say, also said he was sighted in the West Wing frequently, Wolf. He was someone who was here on a regular basis. So the idea that he doesn't know Matt Whitaker just doesn't really hold true based on our reporting.

BLITZER: Yes, even though he said several times before leaving the White House today, I don't know the guy. I barely know the guy. In any case, he obviously does know him. We're going to get the tape of what he told Fox News recently about Matt Whitaker and how he does know him.

Pamela Brown, thank you very much for that.

Meanwhile, the acting attorney general, Matt Whitaker, says the appointment of a special counsel on Russia, quote, smells a little fishy. That's what he said. And he called the Mueller investigation political. But those are not his only views that are raising lots of concerns right now. He once vowed to use a religious test for federal judges.

Our politics reporter and editor at large, Chris Cillizza, is joining us now with details.

Chris, what specifically did Whitaker say about judges and religious beliefs?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right. Let's go through it, Wolf. And I want to remind people, Matt Whitaker, a lot of people don't remember this, he ran for the Senate in 2014 from Iowa. It's the seat that Joni Ernst, the Republican, won. So a lot of his comments came as a candidate in 2014.

Let's go first. Whitaker on judges as it relates to religion. In a forum in April 2014, he was asked about his standard for judges. He said, they need to have a, quote, biblical view of justice. If judges -- this is his words, if judges have a secular world view, then I will be very concerned about how they judge. Obviously you cannot impose religious tests on officials like this. He was running in a Republican primary. Maybe it's a position that was popular. But when you're the acting attorney general, that's going to come back to haunt you.

I want to go to another thing because Matt Whitaker, another important thing to know about him, a very expansive definition of executive power. OK, he has called the judicial branch the inferior branch of government. Remember, we've got the -- I explained this to my kids the other day, Wolf. We've got a checks and balances system, right? So when the executive branch calls the judicious branch inferior, a little concerning. He criticized the Supreme Court's power to review legislation. This relates to Marbury versus Madison. This is an 1803 Supreme Court case that is seen as sort of the founding document of the court's ability to review legislative and executive action. So if you don't believe in this, then you don't really believe in the Supreme Court's ability to be that review.

[13:05:13] So, again, we focus a lot on what he has said recently, Wolf, what he has said about the Mueller investigation, for a good reason. But it is important also to suggest that some of the things he has said as recently as when he was a candidate in 2014 are things that should be concerning for someone who is the acting attorney general who I will remind you still not been confirmed or voted on by the Senate.

Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And listen to this because earlier in the day, when he was getting ready to leave the White House, he answered reporters' questions, said several times, I don't know Whitaker, I don't know Whitaker, don't know Whitaker. He kept saying that over and over again. But listen to what he told Fox News within the past few weeks. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But I can tell you, Matt Whitaker is a great guy. I mean I know Matt Whitaker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what do you think, Chris?

CILLIZZA: Well, this is to what Pam was just talking about, Wolf. There's a zero percent chance Donald Trump doesn't know Matt Whitaker. And this is a familiar playbook. George Papadopoulos was a coffee boy. Michael Cohen was just a guy who was a lawyer who did some things -- a very small amount of things for Donald Trump. Paul Manafort was his campaign chairman for a very short period of time. This -- this is what he does. When controversy surrounds people who he is close to, he says, oh, I barely know that person. So this is not new, nor should we be surprised.

But, look, what he told Fox News last month is the truth. He and Matt Whitaker know one another. You don't pick someone you've never met and literally don't know to be the acting attorney general. No one would do that, including Donald Trump.

Wolf.

BLITZER: In all those interviews he did before he became the chief of staff to the attorney general and all those, he was very critical of the entire Mueller probe, the Russia probe, no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. Sounded very much like the president of the United States.

All right, Chris Cillizza, thank you very much.

Meanwhile, a top Democrat now calling the appointment of Whitaker as the acting attorney general a crisis moment. Democrats are taking steps to try and protect the Robert Mueller investigation right now.

Let's talk about this and more with California Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. He's a member of both the Judiciary and the Intelligence Committees.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

What's your reaction to what we just heard?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, Whitaker was hired to be a hit man to take out the Mueller probe. It's clear he fired the guy that recused himself from the probe to put in someone who has already prejudged the investigation.

Now, if this had happened on Monday, we would be helpless as Democrats. We're not helpless anymore. The American people spoke on Tuesday. They want a check on abuses of power. That's, I think, one of the issues that was on the ballot. And so we have a number of options. One, we're going to have a funding the government vote coming up here in a couple weeks and we're going to insist that we protect the Mueller probe.

BLITZER: How are you going to do that?

SWALWELL: Well, you know, the Republicans have been unable for the last two years to fund the government with their own votes. They run government, of course. They have the House. They have the Senate. The have the White House. But they can't sort it out themselves, so they've had to rely on Democratic votes. They're not going to get Democratic votes if they're not going to be willing to make sure that we protect the Mueller probe. It's about the rule of law. It's that important.

Now, we also --

BLITZER: The power of the purse, is that what you're saying?

SWALWELL: That's right, the power of the purse. The oversight responsibility of Congress.

But fast forward to January, when a new Congress comes into place. The days of looking the other way, doing nothing, giving the president this olly olly oxen free environment to do whatever he wants, they're over.

BLITZER: What are you going to do in the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee, you're going to have Jerry Nadler's going to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. He's a liberal Democrat from New York. And Adam Schiff, a fellow Californian, he's going to be the chairman of the Intelligence Committee.

SWALWELL: We're going to do what we should have done two years ago, we're going to do our job. We're going to stand up for democracy and the rule of law. And so if Whitaker won't recuse himself, you can expect that we will call him before committees and ask what promises has he made to the president? What's he going to do with Mueller's budget? Does he still hold true the beliefs that he's had in the past about the investigation?

BLITZER: Listen to what Whitaker said back in 2017. He was a private citizen at the time, before he joined the Justice Department as chief of staff to the attorney general. Listen to what he said about Russian election interference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT WHITAKER: The left is trying to sow this theory that essentially Russians interfered with the U.S. election, which has been proven false. They did not have any impact in the election. And that has been very clear from the Obama administration. They're trying to suggest that essentially the Trump campaign had these deep ties into Russia, which is not true, and that is, you know, I guess what the -- you know, they're trying to slate is that somehow Russia and the Trump campaign, you know, sort of conspired to influence the election. I mean it's crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, so he's already prejudged the entire Russia probe, even though Robert Mueller and his team, they're still supposedly wrapping it up. They've got a lot of information. Previously, Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, was overseeing it because Sessions had recused himself. But now Rosenstein, for all practical purposes, is not the chief enforcer. It's going to be Matt Whitaker.

[13:10:10] SWALWELL: That's right. And his views -- Whitaker's views are out of alignment with the president's principles, who have been confirm by the Senate and have been asked what their views are on the Russia investigation from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, to CIA Director Gina Haspel, to Dan Coats at DNI, to Christopher Wray at the FBI. They all have acknowledged that Russia interfered and that they continue to do so. So now you have an acting attorney general who doesn't believe that. And, again, that's why he was picked for the job. That's what's so concerning. BLITZER: Are you worried about -- before you become the majority in

January, you're sworn in, in the new Congress, are you worried about what the president might do between now and then?

SWALWELL: Yes. And we expect that he'll continue to obstruct justice. But we'll come back on Tuesday and I think the opportunity is for Republicans to step up finally, to hear what the voters wanted on Tuesday and to just protect the Mueller probe. There's bipartisan support in the country to do that. We can do that without having a budget fight.

BLITZER: And so this is going to be a big issue. Do you -- by the way, do you expect Mueller -- is he -- there's a lot of reporting that he's writing a final report, he's wrapping things up. Do you think he is?

SWALWELL: I hope so. But he should be able to follow the evidence. And, you know, I heard Jeff Sessions is frustrated that it's taken as long as it does. Wolf, when you obstruct justice, when you tamper with witnesses, when you have been given the questions that the prosecutors want to ask, as the president has, and you won't sit down in the chair, it's going to take longer.

BLITZER: Let me move on and get your thoughts on some other issues.

Earlier today the president was asked about what the former first lady, Michelle Obama, says in her new book where she says basically, and I'm paraphrasing, she'll never forgive Donald Trump for the birther controversy. And he was asked about that as he was leaving the White House this morning and this is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll never forgive him for what he what to our United States military. By not funding it properly it was depleted. Everything was old and tired. And I came in and I had to fix it. And I'm in the process of spending tremendous amounts of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So he basically deflected. He didn't want to go after Michelle Obama. But he immediately went after the former president, Barack Obama, saying I'll never forgive him for depleting the military.

SWALWELL: Yes. Well, as the father of a toddler, I know that toddlers are going to throw tantrums. We see that all the time from the president. But the reality is, President Obama reduced our role in two major conflicts and we killed Osama bin Laden under his watch. And I think his family, the Obama family, has been through enough harassment from Donald Trump about their roots and their qualifications.

BLITZER: And last time we spoke you were -- we were talking about the possibility after the election -- and it's now after the election -- you're thinking -- I know you're going to Iowa and you're thinking of running for the Democratic presidential nomination. Where does that stand right now?

SWALWELL: Well, I -- looking at the midterm results, what I saw with 25 and counting new members of Congress coming in in their 40s and under is that the country is embracing new ideas, new energy and new leadership. And projecting that on to 2020, I think our best bet is looking forward as far as who we nominate. So I'm going to spend the holidays talking with my family, that's the most important part, and expect to make a decision soon.

BLITZER: Because you have a toddler. You also have just a brand-new little baby.

SWALWELL: A two-week old.

BLITZER: Yes. So that -- I mean that's a big decision if you're going to go out there and spend a lot of time in Iowa and New Hampshire, South Carolina, gearing up for the Democratic primaries.

SWALWELL: Yes. I need their votes first.

BLITZER: You need the family's votes.

SWALWELL: The family's votes first.

BLITZER: What are they saying to you?

SWALWELL: You know, they're supportive. My wife sacrificed greatly. We went to our 40 week appointments for our last son and it was during one of the repeal votes for the Affordable Care Acts. And the doctor looked at me and said, you're not going to miss that vote to be here for the birth of your son, are you? And I said, of course I am. And the doctor said, why don't you go back, you do your job, I'll do mine. I'll make sure you miss -- you don't miss the birth of your baby. My wife was willing to risk me missing the birth so that I could vote against the Affordable Care Act because she knows how important it is. And she sacrificed every way, along the way. And that's a big decision we have to make now.

BLITZER: So it sounds like you're really serious about running for president?

SWALWELL: Well, we spent a lot of time in Iowa in the last two years, helped them pick up two congressional seats there. We've been invited back this weekend to be in Dubuque, Davenport and Des Moines. And, again, I think our path is to have someone that knows the American people. I great up knowing want and seeing grit in my parents, but also have been in these fights when our democracy's been on the line. And I -- you know, I think people know where I stood when Russia attacked us.

BLITZER: You going to vote for Nancy Pelosi to be speaker?

SWALWELL: I am. We need her. Health care was also on the ballot. She skillfully was the architect of the Affordable Care Act. Candidates ran on that and we need to restore those protections immediately.

BLITZER: Congratulations to you and your wife on the new baby.

SWALWELL: Thank you.

BLITZER: We'll have you back for sure.

SWALWELL: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let us know how things go in Iowa.

SWALWELL: We'll do.

BLITZER: Eric Swalwell joining us.

Coming up, a fight explodes over Florida's Senate race. The Democratic candidate now suing as the president and other Republicans claim fraud.

Plus, new details emerging right now behind the mass shooting in California. What we know about the victims as investigators search for a motive.

[13:14:51] And we'll have more from Michelle Obama. She gets candid on her marriage, her struggles to get pregnant and a whole lot more. She's got a brand-new book coming out in the coming days.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Forget Election Day. For Arizona, Georgia, and Florida, they turn out to be an election month.

But we start with the sunshine state. A sense of deja vu circa 2000, while both the governor and the Senate races seem headed for a recount. The Senate race will also make a stop in the courtroom. Two lawsuits are now active. Democratic incumbent Senator Bill Nelson's campaign is suing Florida's attorney general over the ballot counting, while his opponent, Governor Rick Scott, heads to court in less than two hours. He's suing the election supervisor of Broward County.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: Every Floridian should be concerned there may be rampant fraud happening in Palm Beach and Broward Counties. I will not sit idly by while unethical liberals try to steal this election from the great people of Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:11] BLITZER: Our CNN political analyst, congressional reporter for "Politico," Rachael Bade, is with me right now.

Let's take a look at the number, Rachael. What do you see?

RACHAEL BADE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We had some drama in the sunshine state, right?

Rick Scott right now with 51.1 percent of the vote, ahead of Democratic incumbent Senator Bill Nelson at 49.9 percent. Now that is a close enough margin that it automatically triggers a recount in Florida. So we're going to see a recount on November 10th, which is Saturday.

In the meantime, two counties are still counting votes and these counties sort of lean Democratic, meaning that Bill Nelson could very much close the divide and perhaps that's why you're seeing all these lawsuit threats, right, and lawsuits being filed.

Rick Scott, for instance, claiming that the supervisors, the election supervisors in these two counties, are not complying with public records and sort of suggesting that they are trying to influence the election right now.

BLITZER: And Broward County, that's where Fort Lauderdale is, and it's a pretty heavily Democratic county.

He's ahead right now, Rick Scott, as you point out, by about 15,000 votes, 99 percent of the vote is in, but there are still, you say, ballots out there that still have to be counted?

BADE: That's right. And we don't know how many ballots are still yet to be counted because the supervisors in some of these counties are not saying. And so that's one of the reasons why Rick Scott right now is filing a lawsuit.

BLITZER: The president was asked about this earlier today as he was leaving the White House. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you look at what they've done, you look at the dishonesty. Look, look, there's bad things that have gone on in Broward County. Really bad things. He easily won, but every hour it seems to be going down. I think that people have to look at it very, very cautiously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yes, and that's what the president said. And take a look at Florida, the gubernatorial contest.

BADE: Yes, also very tight here. And I -- look, the president has a lot riding on this right now and that's why you saw him very much on the defensive there. He came out after the election and said, look, I grew the Senate margin and one place I was instrumental was specifically in Florida. And so one area in particular, Ron DeSantis, who he personally embraced and got him to win the primary, the nomination for the governorship. And so he has a lot riding on Ron DeSantis' victory.

But as you can see here from the numbers, Gillum, Andrew Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, has very much narrowed that divide again with votes still being recounted. So a lot yet to play out here and we'll see, the president, I think he's going to keep fighting back on this because he wants a victory for both of these Republicans. BLITZER: And if he's ahead by less than 0.5 percent, there's an

automatic recount.

BADE: That's right. And so I think we very well could see that.

BLITZER: All right, Rachael, thank you very much.

BADE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Rachael Bade, thank you.

There's more breaking news we're following. A new report alleges that President Trump played a major role in the hush money payoffs to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. We'll share that with you. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:33] BLITZER: Candid and somewhat surprising comments from the former first lady of the United States, Michelle Obama. Her memoire entitled "Becoming" lands on bookstore shelves next week. In it she reveals details about her marriage to President Obama, as well as slamming President Trump for the rumors he spread questioning the legitimacy of her husband's birth certificate.

Among other things she writes this, and I'm reading it to -- a quote now from the book, what if someone with an unstable mind loaded a gun and drove to Washington. What if that person went looking for our girls? Donald Trump with his loud and reckless innuendos was putting my family's safety at risk. And for this I'd never forgive him.

The president was asked for his response earlier today as he was leaving the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guess she wrote a book. She got paid a lot of money to write a book. And they always insist that you come up with controversial --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: To discuss all of this and more, I am joined by our senior anchor -- our CNN anchor and senior Washington correspondent Brianna Keilar, and our senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson.

Let me start with you, Nia, because these are pretty surprising words we just heard.

Well, let me with Brianna. Let me start with Brianna first. We're going to get you a mic in a second.

All right, so what do you think, because she's pretty blunt. The president, when he was asked about it, he deflect. He immediately went, I'm not going to forgive President Obama for deflating the U.S. military. BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I would be

surprised if Michelle Obama did not address this in the book, right? This is -- how could she not address that the now current president, while not president, propagated this very clearly racist targeted messaging against her husband in a way that had her worrying about the safety of her children. And it's not just Michelle Obama, right? There are other people who feel they have been targeted by his rhetoric and also have safety concerns. So I think it's something that is valid. I think it's how she feels. I don't think it's because she's trying to just make money off of the books. I think it's a really candid look into what she believes.

BLITZER: She's speaking from her heart and she was understandably upset when then the private citizen, Donald Trump, repeatedly questioned where the president of the United States, a sitting president of the United States, was actually born and whether he was constitutionally allowed to be president of the United States.

[13:30:00] NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, he, you know, and as first lady, she could only go so far in terms of expressing her feelings, talking about fears for her children's