Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Deadly Wildfires Threatening Homes in California; Recount Underway in Razor-Thin Florida Senate & Governor Races; At WWI Ceremony, Trump's Nationalism is Rebuked. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 12, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's still an active fire. We have fire that's still being fought right now.

[05:59:01] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is already the most destructive fire in California state history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a 100-foot wall of flames. It was like a fire storm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm still trying to wake up from this terrible dream.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What's going on in Florida is a disgrace.

RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Nelson is clearly trying to commit fraud to win this election.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Votes are not being found. They're being counted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count every vote and let the chips fall where they may.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Monday, November 12, 6 a.m. here in New York.

We are following two breaking stories for you this morning. First, the wildfires in California, one of them becoming the most destructive and deadliest in state history. The death toll has just gone up. At least 31 people have died in the fires. More than 200 people are still missing at this hour. The fire that is named the Camp Fire has killed 29 people and devastated parts of Northern California, leveling about 90 percent of the homes in one town.

Two other people have died in Southern California where a second fire is threatening thousands of homes. Unfortunately, the weather is not expected to give fire crews any relief in containing these fires.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also breaking this morning, post-election chaos in Florida. These are live pictures, if you can believe it --

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

BERMAN: -- from Broward County. This is happening right now. Broward is one of 67 counties facing a Thursday, 3 p.m. deadline to complete a recount of three statewide races. As for that deadline, the Palm Beach County election supervisor says it's impossible for them to meet it. Two of the races -- the Florida governor's race and the race for Senate -- they're among the most closely walked in the country. People have been watching them very, very closely.

Florida's current governor, Rick Scott, who was leading the Senate race has filed three election-related lawsuits. Scott alleges, without giving evidence, that his opponent, Democratic incumbent Bill Nelson, is trying to commit fraud in order to win the collection.

Nelson says Scott's efforts are aimed at making sure every legal vote is not counted.

We've got a lot to cover this morning. Let's get first to the fire. CNN's Scott McLean live in Ventura County, Florida [SIC] -- California, I should say, Scott.

Scott, what are you seeing there?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, well, some evacuation orders for Southern California have been lifted, but other people will be out of their homes for quite some time.

We're in Malibu, California, where fire ripped all the way down to the Pacific Ocean. You can see some devastation here. It's hard to tell, but you can imagine this would have been an absolutely stunning and large home. It's hard to tell what it would have been looked like now. You can just see remnants of the house. The chimney there. Over there, you can see the car.

Now, because this area is still under mandatory evacuation orders, there's hardly been any residents here. We did manage to speak with one over the weekend who was just coming back to see his home for the very first time. I caught him moments after he arrived, and he said that it was literally sickening to see. He literally felt nauseous.

That said, yesterday was a good day for firefighters here. They managed to hold largely the footprint of this fire. It barely grew at all, 85,000 acres, now 15 percent contained.

Authorities, though, they are still warning of potential danger, because there is a wind warning in effect until Tuesday, and that could restart some of these flames. Now, all of this still pales in comparison to what we're seeing in Northern California with the Camp Fire. It has literally leveled entire neighborhoods, taken out well over 6,000 homes, killed 29 people and perhaps even more terrifying, there are 200 people still unaccounted for.

President Trump, for his part, he's approved a disaster declaration for California, but he also tweeted, blaming gross mismanagement of forests for California's wildfire problems. The governor responded, saying, "Look, forestry management is only part of the issue. Here, the much bigger issue is climate change and what to do about that.

The tweets, they also caught the attention of some firefighting groups. One of them called them ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Scott. Thank you very much.

So for ways that you can help those affected by the California wildfires, you can go to CNN.com/impact.

BERMAN: We're also staying on top of another major breaking story. Live pictures we have for you this morning from Lauderhill, Florida. These are live pictures of us. There we go. Live pictures from Lauderhill, Florida. This is Broward County. There's not much more that goes on live when we're on TV --

CAMEROTA: I thought I saw some calisthenics being done for a second.

BERMAN: They are engaged now in this recount. The recount is on. There are three races with razor-thin margins, and two of them. One of them was the senator's race, one of them was the governor's race. We've been watching those very, very closely.

CAMEROTA: They're really looking for the votes right there. They are looking under tables.

BERMAN: There's a lot going on in that office right now. All 67 counties in Florida, the results must be submitted by 3 p.m. Thursday. But before the count is in, President Trump is already accusing Democrats of trying to steal the election. There are things flying on both sides.

Joining us now, Abby Phillip, Jeffrey Toobin, John Avlon.

Jeffrey, you know, you covered the recount in 2000. Here we have three re-counts that are proceeding by law. The law dictates that if the vote is, you know, within .5 percent there's a recount, and that's what's happening.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: That is what's happening, and basically, the first stage of the recount is to just run all the ballots through the counting machines again. That's called the machine recount.

Then, there is a manual recount where they actually look at each ballot. That's the really time-consuming one. And that only applies so far in the Senate race, because that one is within .25 percent, and .5 percent you get a machine recount; .25 it's a hand count. It's very hard to get it done by Thursday. That's why Broward is working all night.

[06:05:00] But there is no discretion here involved. It's not like the Democrats arranged this. Elections within those percentages get those recounts. CAMEROTA: Yes, but Governor Rick Scott is going full -- full fraud.

I mean, he's decided already. Before waiting for the recount, he is accusing his opponent without any evidence whatsoever of committing fraud. And I think the interesting thing, John, is there is evidence of incompetence. I mean, there is evidence that something was done in a shoddy fashion, but I think the fraud claim begs him to present something.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's baseless. He has not presented any evidence. He's the governor of a state. And of course, tone comes from the top, and President Trump hasn't been shy about claiming fraud either.

What we know in this country is voter suppression is a far bigger problem than voter fraud. They are going all in, because it's, frankly, at this point, this is about winning. It's not about anything more. Republicans feel they will have a less good shot at winning the Senate seat if more votes are counted in Broward and Palm Beach. And that's just the fact of it. So that's the practicality.

Now, when they elevate it to questions of lawsuits and claims of fraud, it gets ugly. That's intentional. Their goal at the end of the day is simply to win, and Democrats are arguing, in their own self-interest, count as many votes as possible.

The big question is, if the deadline is this Thursday, which it is, and Palm Beach County is saying they can't get it done, how are they prioritizing the recount?

BERMAN: Which race do they do firs? There are three races there.

AVLON: That's exactly right.

BERMAN: I'd expect governor. We don't know. I don't know.

AVLON: No, it's an important question.

BERMAN: And if they don't finish, what happens is you just default to the results as they were before. So there will be no votes picked up, one side or the other.

The fact of the matter is that the margins here are pretty big. We're talking about 12,000, 15,000 in the Senate race and 30,000 in the governor's race. It would take something enormous to happen to flip it. It's unlikely. People need to know that.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: Carl (UNINTELLIGIBLE), one of your favorite political theorists, says that war is a continuation of politics by other means. Recounts to me are just the continuation by other means, Abby. We are seeing them fight over this just to fight. To me, they're fighting just to fight.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. Yes, they're fighting just to fight. I think this is partly that the need to fight is important, to show your voters that you're not just throwing up your hands and giving up.

But I do think it's instructive to see how Republicans are also fighting back hard in the way that they are using the language of fraud and stealing an election and President Trump kind of spinning a lot of conspiracy theories around this.

To me, that says that this is really, really important. They don't want to leave this up to chance. They saw in Arizona where -- how the Republican candidate went from being in the lead and, as they counted more votes, going to -- to being in second place. And that has really concerned them. You've seen President Trump tweeting about that.

So he doesn't want something similar to happen in Florida. And while it might be unlikely in the governor's race, because that margin is much larger, in the Senate race, it is -- it is a large margin. We're talking about tens of thousands of votes.

But there are millions of voters in Florida. There are a lot of people in that state. And so, you know, recounting votes in a couple of large counties, like Broward and Palm Beach, can have a potential impact. And I think Republicans are really concerned about that.

Florida still is a critical state. It is so critical to President Trump in 2020, but it's critical for them as they try to expand their margin in the Senate. And I think that the fact that we're seeing such tooth-and-nail fighting, even though, as you point out, it would take, actually, really, something extraordinary to dramatically overturn these results, tells you that they don't want to leave this to chance.

And they think that it's possible. It's within the realm of possibilities, given where the ballots are, given where these -- these concerns are. They are in places where there are a lot of Democratic votes. So they are legitimately concerned about that.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and also, like, why leave any votes on the table? If you know that votes haven't been counted, count them.

TOOBIN: I mean, this was the theme of the Democrats in 2000. It's the theme of the Democrats now: count all the votes.

But just to agree with what you said, in 2000, the margin between Gore and Bush was 535 votes. This is 12,000 between Nelson and Governor Scott. That's a lot.

The machine recount is where a lot of votes can change. So we will know, I think, fairly soon whether the margin has -- is realistically close. In the hand recount, you're not going to switch 12,000 votes but in a machine recount you really can find votes that were not found.

BERMAN: What the hand recount can do, it counts under votes and over votes. What happens is if the machine doesn't pick up a vote in the Senate race, that's where you go back in the manual recount, and you see if the checkmark was outside where the optical scan can pick it up. That's only going to happen if the vote margin's within a quarter percent.

[06:10:08] TOOBIN: The good news is they don't use the punch card ballot anymore, so we won't be hearing about chads anymore.

AVLON: There are still, potentially, ballot design problems.

BERMAN: That's a totally different thing. and a totally legitimate thing to talk about. In Broward County, it seemed to be so messed up that people couldn't figure out how to even vote.

CAMEROTA: But you have to live with that.

BERMAN: Right. You have to live with that.

AVLON: You've got to live with that. But it begs again the question there's got to be a better way to do this in the United States of America. This is Florida, man, wrestling over another recount. We've got the scar tissue as a country, so we're paying a lot of attention. It's important to point out that the margin is big, particularly for governor. Senate seat's within the realm of possibility. You also have other ballots coming in. But the reason this is an issue because Palm Beach and Broward are so heavily Democratic, and that's why the rhetoric's being ratcheted up.

BERMAN: Can I just see one other thing? Abby brought up Arizona as causing the president's consternation and causing consternation. The problem -- these are just the votes. These are just the votes. The problem that the president has in Arizona is they are counting the votes, and as the votes are coming in, the Democrat is winning. Just look at the votes. That's what happened in Florida is that the vote margin made it so close they had to have a recount. There's just a lot of screaming here about which I'm not 100 percent certain. Count the votes.

PHILLIP: Yes, we ought to be able to just count votes. I mean, and also, if -- if a recount is required, we ought to be able to just do that and not have it become a political side show.

I mean, I think that's, to me, the more interesting kind of weirdly damaging parts of this whole thing, is that recounts should be OK for us to do without accusing the other side of trying to steal an election.

It probably will not, in this case, change the results all that much, but what we have seen is this -- this really overheated rhetoric. And I think that's uncalled for, given that counting votes is what the law requires and that recounting them in the year 2018 should not be some kind of remarkable, like, achievement. It should be something that we ought to be able to do as a country. And the fact that we maybe can't do it is a huge problem that probably should be resolved.

BERMAN: We need to have a safe space where we can talk about --

CAMEROTA: Well, it's right here. It's right here this morning.

But here's just a couple of examples. OK? A couple of illustrations of things that went wrong that then make people not have faith in the system. So this is according to "The New York Times" today.

In Broward County, 22 rejected ballots were mixed in with about 180 valid ones and were counted. In Palm Beach County, damaged ballots that were duplicated by hand, as required under state law, were handled without independent observers having a good vantage point to witness the process. Staff members had made the rulings themselves on questionable ballots that were supposed to be judged by a three-person panel.

Again, this is -- you know, these are just a teeny little slice of it. However, there are things that, if there were a really well-run, well- oiled machine, it might not have happened.

TOOBIN: Two points. One, elections are low priorities in this country in terms of how we spend money. We don't -- most elections are not close. We don't invest in the technology and the resources.

Second, in most states, including Florida, elections are run by partisan officials. They are supervised by a secretary of state who is an elected state-wide official.

CAMEROTA: And sometimes running for his own office, by the way.

TOOBIN: Or her. Many people may remember Katherine Harris who was secretary of state, who ran the 2000 election in Florida, who was Bush's co-chairman in the state. I mean, that sort of set-up is a recipe for people not to believe the results.

AVLON: Yes. And we should say also, you know, talking to folks in Florida, incompetence is often a better explanation than nefarious agendas. You know, and so that's an important reality check to keep in mind when you're looking at Florida.

But the basic principle has got to be embodied (ph). You know, the election, we have a lot of elections in this country that have determined the course of history that hinge on a very few number of votes. Count the votes. Don't demonize the process.

BERMAN: And I think Abby's point is really worth thinking about going forward, is why are they so upset about this? It isn't so much about the results in Florida this week. It's looking beyond. They want to cover their bases here so they have this as a political weapon to wield going forward.

CAMEROTA: All right. Panel, thank you very much.

So now this story. President Trump went to Paris for a parade, but all he got was an earful from one of America's closest allies instead. President Emanuel Macron's --

BERMAN: See this.

CAMEROTA: -- message -- what does it say?

BERMAN: "French Dis."

CAMEROTA: Ouch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: All right. President Trump is back in Washington following a long weekend in Paris. During a ceremony commemorating the end of World War I, French President Emanuel Macron offered a clear message about the dangers of nationalism, Mr. Trump, a self-declared nationalist, sitting just feet away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (via translator): Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism by saying, "Our interests first. Who cares about the others?" We erase what a nation holds dearest, what gives it life, what makes it great and what is essential. Its moral values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. Back with us is Abby Phillip, Jeffrey Toobin and John Avlon.

So Abby, it sounds like, on many different levels, the president's trip to Paris did not go as planned. And I don't think that he was anticipating sitting -- having to sit and listen to Macron's speech about nationalism. And as John has pointed out --

BERMAN: I have props.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I see that you have props. He has a visual aid of a cover of "The New York Post" that says, "French Dis." After a year ago, we all remember the bromance.

BERMAN: Heavy petting.

CAMEROTA: OK. He went there. He said there was petting.

BERMAN: There was pawing. There was pawing.

CAMEROTA: They were handsy.

BERMAN: OK.

CAMEROTA: OK? So what's the White House feeling this morning?

BERMAN: This is last year on the right.

CAMEROTA: That's -- there's a lot. Let's just enjoy this for a moment, because this is just the beginning of it. So then there's more handsiness. There's a hug. Then there's a group hug. There's a lot of touching. There's a lot of body language -- there we go. Kissing. There's kissing. Hugging.

Now, Melania is cut out here, but soon she will be roped into this -- well, hold on. Hold on, wait a second. Mrs. Macron is going to reach for her. There we go. OK. So Abby, you remember this whole thing, and now what?

[06:20:10] PHILLIP: Yes, they were -- they were close, which is why this is so extraordinary. It's -- this does not turn out the way that they wanted it to by a wide, wide margin.

I mean, remember, President Trump is only going to Paris, really, because he was so enamored with Paris. The last time he was there, he got a great parade. He was treated so well. He and Macron and their wives had dinner at the Eiffel Tower. They had a great time. And he wanted to come back, because he couldn't get his military parade here in Washington.

And this time, he's on his way to Paris. He lands in Paris, and he sends a tweet criticizing Macron, literally, as he lands, criticizing Macron for comments that suggested that Europe should create -- should form a military to defend itself, because it basically can no longer rely on the United States.

So from the very beginning, this visit was off to a really bad start. And it only proved that President Trump is really isolated among European leaders. This is not a relationship that is going particularly well: from trade to mutual defense, NATO. President Trump is in an island unto himself.

And Macron used this as an opportunity to hammer home what I think he thinks is vital for not just Europe but for the world, which is that the lessons of World War I, are that -- that, you know, isolationism, perhaps nationalism is not the recipe for success.

And President Trump doesn't take criticism well. This was -- this was President Trump really trying to isolate himself as much as he could once he got there, because I think he realized he was not going to get the warm welcome that he had hoped he would get.

He didn't quite even get the parade he had hoped he would get. He got a lot of rain. He got a cancelled visit to a cemetery on Veterans Day. This was, I think, a massive P.R. failure, and you can see that in the way that the White House is reacting, by basically trying to explain themselves every step of the way over this past weekend.

BERMAN: John.

AVLON: I'm sorry the parade didn't quite work out, and the rain would have been awkward to stand in for a long time. The big problem is the 100th anniversary of World War I isn't all about him. And that seemed to provoke a bit of pique.

And the guy he had -- you know, he's been relatively close with, Macron, could not have been more clear in dissing, explicitly, his governing philosophy and what is the great struggle right now, which is really between not only patriotism and nationalism. They are fundamentally different. But between liberal democracy and the kind of ethno-nationalism that Trump has associated himself with globally.

He has an affinity, as we saw in a really powerful photograph, where Vladimir Putin is walking up. Macron and Angela Merkel are staring at him coldly, because they say he looks like a killer. And Donald Trump just saw his best friend from summer camp. He loves -- he seems to have more of an affinity for dictators than democrats. And that's the heart of the problem.

BERMAN: I remember when you used to look at me like that. You know? I want someone to look at me --

AVLON: Like Donald Trump looks at Putin?

BERMAN: -- Donald Trump is looking at Vladimir Putin right there.

AVLON: That's the meme right there.

BERMAN: Yes.

AVLON: Yes.

TOOBIN: But you know, I don't actually think this bothers the president that much. Because his -- this is his governing philosophy. He calls it sometimes nationalism. He calls it America first, all of which is indicative of we don't care about our allies. We are going to have trade rivalries, not trade alliances, and that's -- that's his brand.

CAMEROTA: By the way, Macron's approval ratings are down.

TOOBIN: I understand.

BERMAN: But he got a lecture. The president doesn't like to be lectured like that in front of the entire planet, and it was a pretty stark, glaring, pointed lecture he got from Emanuel Macron.

Jeffrey Toobin, you're here. I want to ask you about where we are right now in the various investigations, because the Democrats were speaking over the weekend -- they're coming into power in January in the House -- about where they might go. And among other things, they're talking about, well -- you know, "The Wall Street Journal" just put out a really interesting article, following the president's role, according to "The Journal," in approving, every step of the way, the payments to Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels. So there's that. The Democrats want in on that.

Jerry Nadler, who's going to chair the Judiciary Committee, says, "Our first witness is going to be the new acting attorney general, Matt Whitaker, to figure out if he has the authority to do anything that he might be doing."

TOOBIN: Well, I think Matt Whitaker is an obvious target for a variety of reasons.

First of all, is his appointment legitimate? Is he qualified to be the attorney general? Is he going to protect or end or interfere with the Mueller investigation? That is certainly a -- you know, a legitimate choice for the Democrats. In addition, you have the question of the president's finances, his

tax returns, his -- whether he's making money off the presidency in terms of his hotels and whatnot. It is a target-rich environment, but you have to see if the Democrats are going to --

CAMEROTA: Overreach, bingo.

TOOBIN: -- overreach.

CAMEROTA: That's what the Republicans are already making hay with, John, is that they're saying --

[06:25:09] TOOBIN: They're making -- haven't done anything, so how could they overreach?

CAMEROTA: Because they -- because they know that Jerry Nadler is saying, and Nancy Pelosi, et cetera, et cetera, are saying that this is going to be some of our priorities and that's what the American people want. And the vote is, I think, split and divided on that, whether or not --

AVLON: We would all love to find way to make divided government less dysfunctional. There may be a couple things Nancy Pelosi and the president, at different times, they can agree on infrastructure reform, prescription drug prices.

But it is ridiculous for the president and for Republicans to be talking about the lost art of bipartisanship right now. The president's already said he will be on a, quote, war-like footing if Democrats do their job in Congress and try to actually hold the executive branch to account. There's plenty to look into. It's utterly legitimate. It's not only partisan. It's in the proper role of Congress as a check and balance. That's what he's afraid of.

BERMAN: Very quickly, Abby, because I then want to move on to an article Jeffrey wrote over the weekend. Very quickly, I think you got a good sense of how much the Mueller investigation is on the president's mind when you tried to ask him a question. There's a whole lot stuff going on with that.

But to the question itself, he doesn't seem to want to focus on what is going to be facing him in January.

PHILLIP: Or at least he doesn't want to talk about it all that much. I mean, look, I don't know that the White House is really prepared for the reality of Democratic control of the House. Maybe they're prepared to, as President Trump said, to be on a war-like footing from a public relations perspective, but subpoenas are real things, and oversight when you actually control the chamber, is a real thing. And they are going to have to be prepared to actually comply with that stuff in the House.

And Mueller is still working. We don't know how much -- we don't know for how much longer he will be working, but that is still coming down the pike. And this White House is taking President Trump's perspective on this, which is that every battle is some kind of public relations battle. Well, it might be until it becomes something more real.

So yes, President Trump wants to be able to control the narrative on this. He's irritated when people ask him questions about it. He has already taken moves, it appears, to put people in place who are so critical and skeptical of the investigation that leads to these kinds of natural questions about whether or not he wants them to have a hand in it.

And he doesn't want to be criticized about that or even questioned about that. He wants all those things to happen without any sort of, you know, criticism from the outside, whether it's the press or from Democrats in the House.

CAMEROTA: Yes. OK, Jeffrey, I can't believe I'm about to say this, but let's talk 2020 presidential race.

BERMAN: It was only one week ago.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's go there. You have a great piece on Deval Patrick, former Massachusetts governor.

TOOBIN: Right. As you say, the 2020 race in the Democratic side, there are legitimately two dozen candidates you could make a case for.

One of them is Deval Patrick, the former governor of Massachusetts. And the reason I wrote about him in "The New Yorker," came out today, is that he is the unofficial candidate of Obama world. Valerie Jarrett, David Axelrod. The people who are closest to President Obama are very fond of Deval Patrick.

And it's -- the question is, do Democrats want another Barack Obama? I don't know. I think they did in 2008 and 2012. His style of leadership -- no drama, conciliatory -- is that what Democrats want? Maybe not. Maybe not.

BERMAN: Is Deval Patrick another Barack Obama?

TOOBIN: Well, that's the question. And there are a lot of similarities, both in terms of background and temperament and sort of approach to government. They are awfully similar.

BERMAN: Read the article. It's really interesting as Jeffrey spent some time up there and looks at the political prospects. And when you say "Obama world," we're really talking about the top level of Obama world is behind Deval Patrick.

TOOBIN: Yes, yes. Indeed.

BERMAN: Thank you one and all.

As for Obama world, Michelle Obama -- that's pretty much as high as you can get there --

CAMEROTA: Really an insider.

BERMAN: -- says she told Melania Trump if she needed anything, just call. So has that call come? The eye-opening answer from Mrs. Obama, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)