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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
At Least 31 Dead And 100 Missing And 6400 Homes Burned in California Fires; New Upsurge of Violence at Israeli Gaza Border; Brexit Negotiations Intense And Still Stuck on Irish Border Issue; Marvel Comics Legend Stan Lee Dies at 95. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired November 12, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London on this Monday, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, hellish scenes in California as
massive wildfires claim dozens of lives with many more missing. Also, tonight tensions rising on the Israel-Gaza border. Israel says hundreds of
rockets have flown across its border. Palestinians say three people have been killed in Israeli air strikes.
Things are looking pretty difficult. Can there, will there be a break through? We have that story coming up. We begin in a place called
paradise. Paradise does not exist any more. The community in Northern California has been wiped out. A victim of the most destructive wildfires
in California's history. Here are the latest figures we have. At least 29 people have been confirmed killed and officials say about 100 others are
missing. More than 6400 homes have been destroyed by what's known as the camp fire alone. There are others in California. But the deadly fires are
not just burning in Northern California. As I mentioned in the suburbs around Los Angeles the Woolsey and Hill fires have claimed two others
lives. Those blazes scorched million-dollar homes, hundreds of thousands of people have been evacuated, forced to leave. Officials say dry air and
strong winds will make it impossible to get these blazes under control any time soon. If you want to know what it is like to flee from these
infernos, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god. Oh, my god. Get me the [bleep] out of here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. There you have it. You can hear the driver say oh, my god. CNN Scott McLean is in Malibu tracking the Woolsey fire. He joins me
live. What's the situation where you are? How contained is the Woolsey fire in particular?
SCOTT MCCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, they say it's 20 percent contained. But we're talking about an area that's 91,000 acres.
It's massive. The big concern right now is wind. You can see what it has done to some of these properties, some really spectacular prompts that you
can see right through to the Pacific Ocean. If you look over next door, same thing. This one is also completely destroyed. Yet other homes where
they are perfectly intact. If you look over here for a moment you can see up in the hills it's dusty, a little bit smoky. The wind has started to
return right now. That's a very big problem for firefighters, of course the worry is any areas that are smoldering could come back and cause a big
problem. This area of Malibu, where we are, an area known for the rich and famous is still under mandatory evacuation orders. People are not allowed
to come back and see their homes. And they say that it is for their own safety because they are worried about this fire getting into the footprint
of the fire already, that's where we are. They are worried about any areas that haven't burned, any homes that could if this wind causes problems.
GORANI: Yes. Why are they having so much trouble containing it? It's the wind. It's the dry air. I mean what else is the reason here because
really the state is putting everything it has to fight these fires and these blazes. What's going on there? What are some of the biggest hurdles
MCCLEAN: You're right. We're talking about 3,000 plus firefighters. You're right. It's an absolutely massive challenge. Part of it is the
wind coming from inland. It's hot, dry and going offshore. That means the humanity factor is extremely low. Meaning that there's a lot of, you know,
really tinder dry fuel for this fire to burn through. A lot of this area, if you've ever been to the areas around Los Angeles you know it's very
mountainous. Very steep. Difficult terrain. Sometimes especially if you get a fire starting at the bottom of the canyon it will race up the side of
the hill very quickly and, of course, that means if there's a home in between, it's not going to have much of a chance.
[14:05:08] We heard from people who have been trying to protect their homes with a garden hose, buckets, shovels, things like that. Some people found
these flames were too much. Other people managed to get lucky. Regardless, it's a massive challenge for firefighters and there are red
flag conditions until tomorrow evening. That means conditions are ideal for wildfires to start, or spread very quickly and so there really isn't
going to be much relief for the next day or so.
GORANI: All right. Well, it is a devastating situation for the people there in California. First of all, the loss of life. But the property
damage is extensive as well. Takes a long time to recover from something like that. That's the situation in southern California. With more on the
camp fire in the north, I'm joined on the phone by Cal Fire spokesperson who also happens to be named Scott McLean. He's in Chico, California.
Scott, thank you for being with us. What's the latest there with regards to the camp fire?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CAL FIRE SPOKESPERSON: Right now, we're looking at 113,000 plus acres that burned so far. We have red flag warning pick up again
yesterday into today. The word is hopefully by 11:00, maybe right now, we will start to see the red flag warnings diminish in the north state which
means the wind will start to subside, not go away but start to subside and that will enable our firefighters to get closer up on that line. Hopefully
that fire activity will slow down. Our air tankers and helicopters have been flying and hopefully they have a better chance to get those water
drops and retardant where they are need.
GORANI: How are these fires starting?
MCLEAN: It's under investigation. Cal Fire has their own investigation law enforcement branch that's very well versed in investigations. They are
very methodical. They are determined to get the answer. It does take time.
GORANI: They are spreading fast why? Because of the climate? The fact it's dry? Because of the winds? Because it seems as though they are
progressing extremely quickly and this is causing firefighters a lot of challenges and problems containing these huge blazes.
MCLEAN: You said it all. You are correct. Look at last year. 1.4 million acres burned. This year we already passed that. It's due to the
climate aspect. The Carr fire earlier this year that destroyed Redding. Triple-digit temperatures earlier on this year that were consistently --
consistent for months bringing on low humidity which parched or dried out the vegetation. The vegetation is susceptible to fire. Winds from the
weather are pushing these fires exponentially. We saw some celebrities, ordinary people as well posting pictures of charred, destroyed homes.
GORANI: How many homes have been destroyed so far in the Camp fire?
MCLEAN: Well, there's an estimate and it's an estimate that will increase of 6700 structures. That includes 260 commercial structures and 6400 plus
residential structures. Again, that was an estimate. That will increase.
GORANI: Quickly, your reaction to what the President, President Trump tweeted saying this is all about mismanagement of the forest in California
that these fires are spreading. What's your response to that?
MCLEAN: I won't address that right now. I'm looking at 8,000 individuals fighting the fight, putting their lives on the line for the citizens of
GORANI: Thank so much for joining us. Scott McLean is Cal Fire's spokesperson joining us from Chico, California with the very latest on
these devastating fires. We'll return to this story later.
Now to renewed bloodshed and blame in the Middle East. Tensions are flaring up across the Israel-Gaza border. Israel said Palestinians have
fired about 200 rockets into Israel, wounding 11. There have been renewed Israeli air strikes into Gaza that have killed three people this is in
addition to 23 Palestinians that have been killed by Israeli forces since last month.
[14:10:00] One Hamas rocket hit an Israeli bus despite these images showing the bus inflames only one person was injured. Now this all comes after an
aborted Israeli military mission resulted in the deaths of seven Palestinians and an Israeli officer. Liebermann is on the Israeli side of
the border with the very latest on what's happening.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'll zoom in to what's behind me. We saw a number of Israeli air strikes carried out. Difficult to see. We've
seen large explosions. We can still see smoke hanging above Gaza as Israel has carried out those air strikes. We've seen drones that are here above
us in the past few hours and days but even as well over the last few weeks and months. We've seen over the course of the last 20 minutes or so a
number of rockets fired from Gaza. Here where we're standing which is not far from the Gaza border we've seen or heard the red alert siren. That
siren heard across the Gaza periphery. We saw one interception just here behind us. The question becomes at this point where does this go from
here? There are reports U.N. and Egypt are trying to get involved to take bolt sides back off but this remains volatile on bolt sides of the border
with increasing rhetoric coming from both sides and warnings from both sides that this will continue unless one of the sides backs off here. From
what we're seeing and hearing fighter jets overhead, the escalation started just a few hours ago as it became dark here in Israel and along the Gaza
border is not over yet.
GORANI: Can you tell us more about this Israeli operation into Gaza, in which seven Palestinians were killed and one Israeli officer. What was
LIEBERMANN: Here's what we know so far. There's still a lot of holes. Late last night less than 24 hours ago Israeli special forces entered into
Gaza on what the IDF the Israel military called operational activity. At this point it's the Hamas brigade said they uncovered this special force
operation and in the ensuing hostilities that followed a high-ranking Israeli officer was killed. Israel has not put out much more information
about what the special forces were doing inside of Gaza to begin with. They say it was part of a broad and directed operation on the part of
Israeli military. They didn't say whether this was routine or what this was part of. They denied it was part of any assassination attempt or
kidnapping but there still remains a lot of questions about what those special forces were doing on the other side, the Gaza side of the border
GORANI: Thanks very much. We'll be talking about Brexit in a minute. Before we do that, I want to show you the Dow because at one point it was
really taking a beating. We're down 400 points for the Dow Jones average. There's a big concern regarding tech stocks. The expectations are so huge
for companies like Apple and Amazon and others that whenever they miss or there's a hint that they might miss these targets that are sky-high, you
see a lot of negative reaction affecting those stocks and it's Apple's turn today. There's concern about iPhone demand. Not quite panic. But not a
good day on Wall Street for the Dow. And other indices. Still to come tonight, under pressure at home and abroad within her own party and out the
British prime minister is fighting on multiple front to keep her Brexit plan alive and she and her country are fast running out of time.
[14:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Now Brexit negotiations are coming down to the wire. The clock is ticking. Has been for a while. We're hearing from the European Union
chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, there he is. He says there's no agreement on a deal yet but intense talks are continuing. Again, the major
sticking points is what to do with the Irish border. Here in London the prime minister is preparing to put details of the British position to the
cabinet for its approval. She could do that as early as tomorrow. We have all the angles of this story covered for you.
CNN's Erin McLaughlin is in Brussels, Bianca Nobilo joins me here.
So, let's talk about why this in particular day is more significant than others because we've been hearing for a while now there's a deal, there
isn't a deal, there is a deal. Why is this time more significant?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because tomorrow the cabinet will see the plan in its entirety. Last week 95 percent of the draft agreement was
in the cabinet office ministers to come and have a look at. The critical 5 percent, the 5 percent that no one agrees with will be contained in the
deal they see tomorrow provide the EU and U.K. agree on that. The cabinet is the first hurdle tell prime minister has to get past before she shakes
hands with the EU and then through the British parliament. All of those things could fall apart. The cabinet is the very first hurdle for this
deal to become a reality.
GORANI: What are the chances we're headed for no deal in which the U.K. will crash out of the EU without an agreement. What are your sources
telling you in Brussels?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, LONDON BUREAU: Well the chances of a no deal really are increasing by the day here. The reason why
there's so much pressure right now around this process is because they really need a deal to be reached this week. In order for the EU to have a
summit by the end of the month, logistically that deal has to happen and it has to happen now. And a summit by the end of November is seen as a
requirement to give Theresa May the political space to have an appropriate parliamentary process to have parliament sign off on the deal by December.
So that's why we're seeing so much pressure surrounding the current situation, but my sources are telling me this impasse persists. There's no
magic bullet yet to that North Ireland backstop solution.
GORANI: So, if there is no deal what happens? Do we get a second referendum in the UK? The people get to decide again? Because the latest
polling indicates that most people would vote to remain.
NOBILO: We're a little way off the option. Because a number of things could happen. Of course, if there's some form of deal of agreed with EU,
even if cabinet is not on board, Theresa May does have options. She can try to take it forward. That would be a bit of a political suicide
[14:20:00] But there's an option the deal goes to parliament and then parliament rejects it and instructs the government to go back to Brussels
and renegotiate. Whether or not Brussels will do that is another question.
For now, Theresa May is focused on trying to get cabinet to sign up to whatever solution she comes to. There's a lot of talk in Westminster about
a third-party arbitration system. The U.K.'s chief concern with the backstop is that the EU will have the last say. That they will be able to
keep the U.K. in the customs union indefinitely and have a veto on any form of dispute mechanism.
The EU's chief concern is that the U.K. would unilaterally be able to pull itself out of the union with EU. So, the UK has spoken about some form of
third-party arbitration to get around this. How that will happen? Almost nobody knows.
But the composition of the prime minister's cabinet is very complicated. She, of course, has the Brexiteers. She has the Remainers who are likely
to be displeased by whatever solution she presents them. Then the pragmatists in the middle. They have to accept a compromised deal. It's
whether or not she can keep enough of them happy and get them on one side. Cabinet sees their role as a litmus deal as to whether or not the deal she
presents them can get through parliament.
GORANI: Seems like a very tall order to do in 48 hours nuclear program two people divorcing takes usually longer than two years. I think it's quite
possible this might as well. Thanks very much. We're going to let you go. Last one, Erin in Brussels. What's the biggest hurdle here? Is it the
Irish border? Is it access to the EU markets? You have all these companies now and industries. They are preparing for a no deal. This
could cost the U.K. a ton of money.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. The main sticking point is that northern Irish backstop solution and sources tell me that what they are looking at on the
negotiating table right now is a proposal put forward by the U.K. That following Brexit as a temporary backstop solution in the event that a
future trade relationship is not in place the U.K. would remain a part of the EU's customers union, North Ireland would also remain a part of the
single market. That is the point of contention right now because what the U.K. wants is the ability to unilaterally pull itself out of that temporary
customs arrangement. That does not sit well with the EU. Other issues --
GORANI: Let me just jump in. We have some breaking news. I apologize. We have some breaking news I want to bring to our viewers. For all of you
superhero fans out there, stan Lee, the creator of marvel comics we're learning has died. Age 95. This is video of him here. You may not know
his name but know the legacy of his comics and blockbuster movies they inspired. Stephanie Elam looks back on his life and legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: X-Man, Iron Man, iconic superheroes in history and would not exist without stan Lee. He lived a life almost as
incredibly as the characters he created.
STAN LEE, MARVEL COMICS CREATOR: I'm pretty proud of the fact that some of the stories that I wrote so many years ago are still being read and
hopefully enjoyed by the public. People are making motion pictures based on them.
ELAM: Spiderman debuted in 1962 and became Lee's most successful comic book creation.
LEE: Spiderman is my favorite because he's the most popular and known and loved worldwide.
ELAM: Lee's Spidey senses were tingling. Years later in 2002 the first Spiderman film was released and was a blockbuster hit.
LEE: As a child I didn't know anybody who shot webs or crawled on buildings or wore suits of armor or flew or anything like that. I just
imagined them and there they were.
ELAM: He also imagined Thor, The Incredible Hulk and The Fantastic Four. They were flawed people with extraordinary powers.
LEE: I never had any idea that these characters would last this long. In fact, I and the people that I worked with, we just hoped that the books
would sell, and we continue to get our salary and be able to pay our rent. The movies have done so much for the characters. The movies have given the
comic book characters even more prestige.
[14:25:06] ELAM: The native New Yorker was born Stanley Morgan Lieber. His love for comics took him much further than he ever dreamed. He earned
a star on the Hollywood Hall Of Fame.
LEE: In a million years I nerve thought I would get something like this.
ELAM: As his creations became larger-than-life on the big screen, he kept a feverish pace by making appearances at Comic-Con in San Diego. Though
his life seemed charm it wasn't without adversity. Lee was married to his wife Joan for over 60 years. They had two daughters. However, his
youngest only lived for a few days. In his 80s Lee was involved in various lawsuits against Marvel and Disney over the span of seven years. In
September 2012 he had surgery for a pace maker and joked he was trying to become more like his Ironman character.
LEE: To me the most important thing in the world is to keep busy and I'm happy to say I'm lucky enough to still be busy.
ELAM: The Stan Lee Foundation was also a passion project for Lee who seemed to believe with great power comes great responsibility.
LEE: What we concentrate on is education. Educating children. I never would have dreamed years ago that anything like this would happen.
ELAM: The king of comics who was adored worldwide was most proud of his family and comic heroes. Perhaps Lee will be remembered as a legendary
innovator with an uncanny ability to capture the imagination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it. Already. Stan Lee died today at the age of?????
After the break we'll be speaking with Trevor Kavanagh about Brexit negotiations and whether or not as he's asking we're all doomed. We'll be
GORANI: Let's get back to the latest on what's happening with Brexit. Take a look at this political cartoon. It was published in the sun
newspaper. As you can see the artist paints a scene of a chaotic cockpit with Theresa May at the controls. Accompanying opinion article is written
by my next guest "Sun" columnist Trevor Kavanagh.
[14:30:00] He writes the crew is bailing out while Theresa May sticks her fingers in her ear, ignores screaming cockpit sirens and steers Britain
towards abject humiliation. We are all doomed. Trevor Kavanagh joins me now in the studio. Doomed? Why?
TREVOR KAVANAGH, JOURNALIST: I think that what Theresa May has managed to do is achieve the impossible. She's united the Brexit and remainders
against her. The result of that is this is not going to get through cabinet. It's not going to get through parliament. In the end we're stuck
with a deal that's unacceptable to the British people and 17 million who voted for Brexit.
GORANI: She achieved the impossible because she was handed an impossible task.
Not at all. I think that the task of Brexit once the --
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: In two years. Disentangling the U.K. from E.U.
KAVANAGH: Well, she decided on the two-year program by invoking Article 50. And this is a complicated process but she didn't have to do that
straightaway. She could have left time. She should work out exactly what she's going to do next.
Well, the moment that the British people voted for Brexit, then we're going to have to Brexit. And there's no way any prime minister of whatever
conviction could have decided that they will not going to carry out the will of the people.
GORANI: Yes. But what about a second referendum?
KAVANAGH: A second referendum would not solve the problem.
GORANI: It's more likely now, even according to you?
KAVANAGH: I can't see it. For one thing she's ruled it out but she might not be prime minister, so that's not necessarily material. But if we had a
second referendum, I think that there's a likelihood actually that we would repeat the result of the last one, first up.
GORANI: Well, not according to the latest polls.
KAVANAGH: The polls are notoriously wrong. I think that most of the voters who voted last time will vote for it again. And a lot of remainers
will be determine to join in. So I think that it could even be a bigger majority.
But even if it were, if it were a majority in favor of remaining, that's not on the table. And the European Union wouldn't simply have us back in
as we were two years ago or as we are today.
GORANI: But why not? I don't understand that statement because all the U.K. would have to do is to just halt this process. Nothing has happened
KAVANAGH: You're assuming that the European wouldn't carry out its threat to punish us for daring to even popular.
GORANI: I think, personally, they'd be delighted if the U.K. decided to.
KAVANAGH: I think that we have fewer star, we'd lose our rebate, which was worth billions of pounds every year. That wouldn't continue under a new
arrangements with the European Union. I think a lot of other opt-outs would have to go. And I think we'd have to agree to move towards joining
the European single currency Union. All of those things would be the price of us going back in under any terms.
It would also cause a running sore, a potential running sore in this country with an unresolved situation where a referendum vote was taken and
GORANI: Well, not if it's redone. If there is a redo.
KAVANAGH: The vote was for Brexit.
GORANI: Now, what do your readers, because The Sun is obviously a conservative newspaper, what do your readers think should happen then?
What is the solution if Theresa May can't find a deal that the U.K. and the E.U. and her cabinet can agree on then? What should be done? A hard
Brexit just fall off the cliff?
KAVANAGH: I don't think our readers right now have any more than Theresa May or any of the other proponents of this argument at the moment. We are
two days away literally from a crisis in which we have to start spending billions of pounds preparing for an emergency, no deal with all the things
that don't fly like hiring ferries to bring goods and medicines to this country. Setting up tax, VATs, customs, borders, all sorts of things.
This is months before we're due to leave. We wouldn't, as the Irish might say be here if we had a choice. We would be already in a position where we
could actually effect a no deal Brexit in some sort of coherent way. But we've been left in a very difficult position.
GORANI: So what is the solution? Because as you mentioned, there are potentially billions and billions of pounds of costs associated with
Brexiting without a deal. And companies are making contingency plans and freight companies are trying to find work around routes. Is this, is the
KAVANAGH: I think we're in for a very rough ride. I can't see how we're going to be able to agree on a negotiated departure. But I can't see,
frankly, how we're going to easily get through a no-deal Brexit with all of that implies.
GORANI: Trevor Kavanagh, thank you so much for joining us on the program this evening. Appreciate it.
Old demons are resurfacing. That was the dire warning of Emmanuel Macron at an emotional and solemn ceremony in Paris yesterday where he led world
leaders in tribute to the millions of soldiers killed World War I.
And the French president used the occasion to deliver a strong rebuke of the nationalism that fanned the flames of that war calling it a dangerous
betrayal of morality and patriotism.
Just as one of the world's most prominent supporters of nationalism, the American president, Donald Trump sat stony-faced just a few feet away.
Listen to Macron.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is betrayal. By saying our
interests first who cares about the others, we are raised what a nation hold serious, what gives it life, what makes it great and what is the most
important, it's moral values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: President Trump is also facing criticism for skipping a visit to honor U.S. soldiers at an American military cemetery outside Paris. Why?
Because it was raining.
[14:35:03] Let's discuss these developments with CNN global affairs analyst, Max Boot. He joins me now live.
The fallout from that decision by the president to skip that cemetery visit, even surprised me. I mean, it had legs that went for several days.
The following day, they organized the visit where he was photographed in the rain paying tribute to one of the soldiers. But this one stuck. Why
do you think?
Well, because it was such a general election of which you expect the president to do. I mean American presidents have an honoring American war
death at least since Abraham Lincoln deliver the Gettysburg address. And this was the 100th anniversary of the end of World War II. It's also the
anniversary of the birth of Marine Corps and he was supposed to go to a cemetery near Belleau Wood, which was one of the great battles in Marine
Corps history and U.S. Army history in 1918.
And instead he chose to stay back at the U.S. ambassador's residents and the White House gave this lame excuse that the weather was too bad to allow
the presidential helicopters to fly but somehow General Joe Dunford and General John Kelly, they were able to reach that ceremony and, of course,
other world leaders were able to visit other ceremonies throughout France on that very day.
So there's a sense of very bad signal that soldiers, of course, have to fight in the rain. They don't have the option of staying on their cozy
hotel room. But President Trump couldn't care enough to discern himself to go honor the Americans who died in World War I.
GORANI: And President Macron really with President Trump sitting just a few meters away from him really directly addressed the topic of
nationalism. And we know a few weeks ago the president of the United States, Donald Trump, invited his supporters to call him a nationalist.
That this was known -- this was a dirty word, but that he encouraged people to use it to describe his position.
This really gives us -- I mean, it really pains in very stark terms the divide now between world leaders like Macron and Merkel and President
BOOT: Yes. I mean, this is really America first as America alone. I mean, President Trump is extraordinarily isolated from the rest of the
western community. And you saw that demonstrated in Paris when he did not march with the other world leaders to the Arch of Triumph. And then when
the ceremony actually took place, as you noted, President Macron delivered a blistering rebuke of the kind of nationalism that Donald Trump has
It's something that's really outside of my memory to -- I can't remember a point like this when the United States was isolated and unpopular as it is
under President Trump. He is going his own way. But it is a way that is at odds with our allies in Europe. And I think that would be a tragedy for
American interest. Because if you think about how we got into World War I, it was because there was chronic disunity, nationalism was on the rise in
Europe, arms races, all that competition which created this war. And then, of course, it created not only World War I but also World War II.
And then after World War II, the U.S. pursue a different path of international cooperation promoting free trade, promoting alliances like
NATO. And Donald Trump is really at odds, not just with our allies but with the entire arch of U.S. one policy since 1945.
GORANI: But I mean, I guess those who, for instance, lived through or covered stories like the Iraq war, they would look at Donald Trump and say,
well, at least he's a non-interventionist, he's an isolationist. Yes, he is, sort of, rocking the world order and that he's not promoting, sort of,
the traditional post-war global order multilateralism, but at least he's also not engaged in military activity or like the Iraq war that were based
on faulty intelligence.
I mean, that there's some positive to Donald Trump's position in the world. What do you make of that?
BOOT: I mean, he is engaged in military activity in Syria and Afghanistan. I mean, it's true that he has started a large new war. And of course, the
United States was isolated when it launched wars in Vietnam and in Iraq. Although in both cases, we did have allies behind us.
I think what's different this time is that this is not a case where there is a -- there is unity or purpose, but a division over the specifics of a
particular military action.
What Donald Trump is really signaling is that he is opposed to the entire architecture of this American lateral order in which Europeans have been
such key allies since 1945. I think this is a much more fundamental split than the kind that you had during the days of Vietnam or during the days of
the Iraq war because he -- Donald Trump is really signaling that he does not believe in the western alliance.
[14:40:58] And of course when you have allies, you can have a family fight, you can disagree about specifics should you be in Vietnam, should you be in
Iraq? But there really was not a lot of disagreement on the basics that the United States and Europeans shared a common vision of the world that we
have to defend and Donald Trump really dissents from that vision.
GORANI: Well, we'll see if his presidency will have lasting effects on those alliances, Max Boot, thanks so much for joining us live. We
We want to return to our top story now. Those horrific wildfires torching California, the town of Paradise was home to more than 20,000 people. It
has -- it's gone, basically, the entire town has no homes any more. It appears that the entire town, more than 6400 homes has been burned to the
ground. Our Dan Simon spoke to some of the people who escaped.
AMBER TONEY, FLED WILDFIRE WITH CAR: It's OK, mama. Oh, God.
SUSAN MILLER, FLED WILDFIRE WITH CAR: Oh, my God.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mother and daughter desperately trying to escape the fast-moving inferno.
TONEY: Please, please drive. Just please drive.
MILLER: Oh, I'm trying.
SIMON: Behind the wheel is 59-year-old Susan Miller.
MILLER: I'll have nightmares for the rest of my life. This was a bucket list I never wanted of things I hoped to have never gone through.
TONEY: It's OK, mama.
MILLER: I'm so scared.
TONEY: It's OK. Just --
SIMON: Her daughter, Amber, just trying to keep her calm.
TONEY: I thought the windows were going to shatter because it was just so hot. How could God take a town away that's called Paradise?
MILLER: We thought the tires were going to melt. We thought the car was going to melt.
SIMON: The camera still rolling, you can see the moment when the skies become a little clearer and hear the relief in Amber's voice.
TONEY: We're just trying to escape Paradise. I think we might have.
SIMON: Her grandfather, a Korean War veteran, made a separate journey to safety.
JERRY KRUCELL, WILDFIRE EVACUEE: I'm still in a shock, not really realizing how bad it is because I'm homeless at 82 years of age and that
makes it hard.
SIMON: While many abandoned their cars in the slow-moving traffic and got out on foot, Jerry, a former truck driver, used his well-honed skills to
weave his way out.
JERRY: If the good lord got me here, I think he's going to take me a little bit further. That's all I can say.
SIMON: The most destructive wildfire in California history, the Camp Fire has destroyed more than 6,400 homes and claimed at least 29 lives. The
family doesn't know if they'll ever return to the town they loved.
I know you're just trying to get through day-by-day, but what do you want people to know about your situation and what happened to Paradise?
TONEY: We're strong but some of us won't stay. It's just too hard.
MILLER: Where we had beautiful trees, it's now black. And it'll take years for any of the pine trees to get even close to being what they were. That
town was probably 180 years old and it's not there anymore.
GORANI: Dan Simon reporting there. It is just devastating. Losing everything. In Southern California, it's expensive homes in the L.A.
suburbs that are being burned. The actor Gerard Butler posted an image online showing his Malibu home completely gutted by fire. Singers Neil
Young and Miley Cyrus also basically lost their homes in the blaze.
Lady Gaga posted video as she evacuated her home. The mandatory evacuations mean that many residents have no idea if their homes are still
standing at this point. And this is a -- is this a video from -- yes, this is a video from -- that Lady Gaga posted online.
A lot more to come this evening. The Trump administration has claimed North Korea has stopped its missile program. However, there are new images
that appear to completely contradict those claims. We'll be right back.
[14:45:04] GORANI: There's new satellite images that have exposed one of North Korea's undeclared missile sites. A report from a monitoring group
says this base is part of a network of undeclared locations where North Korea maybe continuing its missile program in secret.
This comes as negotiations with the U.S. have stalled. Barbara Starr is at Pentagon. So, Barbara, what are your sources at the Pentagon telling you
about these satellite image? Because if indeed they show secret missile development sites then North Korea is lying.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the likelihood is that these sites do not come as a complete surprise to U.S. intelligence.
Remember, the North Koreans haven't actually really declared any sites under this so-called negotiation, if you will, that President Trump says
they're having with the North Koreans.
There's no declaration and the U.S. did not expect that when North Korea made an initial declaration anyhow, that it would be fulsome true and
accurate. So the U.S. has known about this kind of thing. These are deep underground in mountains. These are hidden sites where the North Koreans
continue to work on producing missiles and other elements of a weapons program.
What is so concerning about these is they can put mobile missile launchers and mobile missiles, of course, inside these areas deep underground
mountains, open them up, wheel the missile out, fire it off and then hide the launcher again very quickly before U.S. spy satellite can really begin
to see what is happening in the event of a conflict.
So this is the real crown jewel. This is exactly what you want the North Koreans to give up, the kind of surprise attack capability. But right now,
the actual reality is there's no indication they're giving up anything any time soon. Hala.
GORANI: So, where does that leave us then in terms of this agreement or deal that the president said he'd struck with North Korea?
STARR: Well, that's really the key question. I mean, at the Singapore summit there was, if you will, sort of a framework of ideas. You know,
irreversible denuclearization before there would be any relief on sanctions or any easing up.
But there has been that easing up, you know, you now see North and South Korea get closer together. You don't see that real, sort of, hair trigger.
The question is, what it is and always been, will the U.S., will the Trump administration hold firm to an absolute deal? Denuclearization,
verifiable, irreversible, all of it before they have any easing of sanctions and any kind of normalization of any kind of relationship with
There's a long way to go on all of it and this latest information just proves how long that road is.
GORANI: Not as quick and easy as the president would have hoped. That's for sure. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks so much.
GORANI: An update now on the investigation into the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Canada's prime minister now confirms the existence of
Turkish audiotapes related to the killing making him the first western leader to do so. Justin rondeau revealed the information in an exchange
with reporters when he was in Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying that Canadian agents have Turkish recordings?
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard them?
TRUDEAU: I have not. We continue to be engaged with our allies on the investigation into accountability for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and we
are in discussions with our like-minded allies as to next steps towards Saudi Arabia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Justin Trudeau there. Well, transparent on the Khashoggi case is part of what Britain's foreign secretary plans to press Saudi Arabia on
during a trip to Riyadh. He is also urging an end to the bloodshed in Yemen.
As Sam Kiley reports, Jeremy Hunt began his visit with a sit-down with the king.
[14:50:05] SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No smiles for Saudi Arabia's ruler. The British politician joining U.S.
demands that the kingdom come clean on who killed Jamal Khashoggi. While the kingdom says justice will be served.
It is clearly unacceptable that the full circumstances behind his murder still remain unclear. The foreign secretary demanded that the horror story
of war in Yemen come to an end. He said, "The human cost of war in Yemen is incalculable with millions displaced, famine and disease rife and years
of bloodshed. The only solution is now a political decision to set aside arms and pursue peace."
His statement came as he set off to meet the king who has reacted to western calls for a cease-fire in Yemen with a surge in violence. Fighting
is concentrated on a port city of Hudaydah held by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels.
Saudi-backed government militia took a hospital on the outskirts of the port city and the city is the rebel headquarters, a strategic prize. But
it's also the food artery for nation where starvation stalks the streets.
GEERT CAPPELAERE, UNICEF MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR: If there is one figure I would want to use to tell the world how dire the situation of children in
Yemen is, it is the fact that they every 10 minutes in Yemen, a child is dying from preventable diseases.
KILEY: S Yemenis believe their country needs much more than a ceasefire.
KHALED BAHAH, FORMER YEMENI PRIME MINISTER: Since the last three years now, the world or the term of cease-fire is not working anymore. I think
we have to go with a comprehensive package of solution and that will be the solution for stopping the war. But I'm not seeing a ceasefire.
KILEY: Already shocked by the nightmare in Yemen, Saudi Arabia's western allies have been galvanized into demanding an end to Saudi aggression
abroad by Khashoggi's alleged murder. His death may bring peace in Yemen a little closer, but justice for his family remains distant.
Sam Kiley, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
GORANI: More to come including the outcomes of a major U.S. races, still in question nearly a week after the midterms. We will take you to Florida
where officials are racing against the clock to complete ballot recounts while the U.S. president continues to tweet unsubstantiated allegations
about the process. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Well, you know, so many of you watching us are Americans abroad. You send in absentee ballots. A lot of you did so in states like Georgia,
Florida and Arizona where there are very close races. And you wonder and I wondered in the past, when do they ever count an absentee ballot? Do they
counts it only when the race is close?
Well, when it comes to Florida you've got a close race. The state is at it again. Around the clock ballot recounts are under way in the U.S. state
that is a notorious for holding up the 2000 presidential election. Remember, hanging chads?
Officials are racing against a Thursday deadline that one county already says it will not be able to fully meet. At stake are the state's high-
profile governor and Senate races.
[14:55:00] Broward County is one of the most contentious sites of the recount and that's where we find our Jessica Dean. She joins me now with
the very latest.
So, what is the very latest on these two very close races, when we might get results as well, Jessica?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Hala from Broward County, Florida. Here we are again. You're asking when we might get
results. Well, the deadline we're looking at is Thursday. That's when all of the counties here in Florida have to have their recount numbers back
into the secretary of state's office.
And that is -- here in Broward County, they're working around the clock. They're also doing that in Palm Beach County. You mentioned that Broward
County has found itself kind of right back in the spotlight all over again. And that's because there have been some questions of competency out of this
office. How long it's taken them to count the ballots, how effectively they've been able to do that.
That being said here in Florida, the secretary of state's office and the office of law enforcement have both come out and said there are no
allegations, no evidence of any criminal activity here in Florida.
So right now, the process really is playing out as it's supposed to by law. Any race that comes within a half percentage point once those unofficial
ballots came in on Saturday, that triggers an automatic machine recount which is exactly what's happening. Broward County says it expects to have
that fully completed, Palm Beach County, that other county that has a lot of attention, they have these older machines which means they can only run
one race at a time.
They don't think they're going to be able to make the deadline in all the races. They think they can get the Senate race done, but maybe not the
governor's race. So, we're going to have to keep an eye on that.
GORANI: All right. Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Jessica Dean, thanks very much. She joins us from Broward County which is one of
those counties where recounts are ongoing.
And it is a count really, actually because we'll include all of the ballots that were cast including ballots from people who live outside the state and
outside the United States among our viewers, there are many people who vote in that way.
Quick last word on this crazy story. There's a couple that named their child after Adolf Hitler. They've been convicted among three people found
guilty of being members of a banned British Neo-Nazi group. The couple are Adam Thomas 22 and this woman on the left, Claudia Patatas, 38.
Thomas is a self-confessed racist. These are crazy pictures. And the name was given in admiration of Hitler. Either way they are convicted and they
will be punished accordingly.
I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks very much for watching tonight. There's a lot more ahead. Of course, the very latest on those fires in California. Stay
with CNN. I will see you same time, same place tomorrow. But after the break, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming your way.