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42 Dead, More Missing as Camp Fire Becomes Deadliest in California History; Democrats Flip Arizona Seat with Sinema Victory; Roger Stone Associate Says He Expects to Be Indicted by Mueller. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 13, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most destructive fire in California raging on.

[05:59:32] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death toll from the Camp Fire has just risen to 42.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just utter, utter devastation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole town was wiped off the face of the earth.

RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: We want free and fair elections, but we don't want any fraud.

SEN. BILL NELSON(D), FLORIDA: He has thrown around words like voter fraud without any proof.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is dangerous to the process to constantly say the system isn't working.

ANDREW GILLUM (D), FLORIDA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Let our people vote and let our votes be counted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, November 13, 6 a.m. here in New York. Alisyn is off. Erica Hill joins me.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good to be back with me.

BERMAN: It's the one-week anniversary from the elections, so happy anniversary.

HILL: I can't believe it's only been a week. It feels longer, but I get you. You have to wait until the 8 a.m. hour.

BERMAN: To find out what you got me. HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Fantastic.

HILL: I hope you stay with us.

BERMAN: Breaking news out of California. Catastrophic wildfires devastating the state. It has been a deadly, terrifying night. The death toll now stands at 44. Forty-two of those deaths are from the blaze called the Camp Fire, making it the deadliest wildfire in California's history, and the numbers are expected to rise with dozens and dozens of people still unaccounted for.

Now, a different fire, the Woolsey fire, is now threatening thousands of homes in Southern California. And today, they are expecting near hurricane-force winds, which will only make things worse.

President Trump did approve a request for a major disaster declaration providing the state with federal resources. This comes just days after an inaccurate and, critics say, insensitive statement where he threatened to cut aid and blamed forest management for the fires.

HILL: Today also, as John noted, marks one week since the midterm elections, so here's where we stand right now. Breaking overnight, an unprecedented victory in the Senate race in Arizona, Democrat Kyrsten Sinema edging out her rival, Martha McSally, to flip a seat that has been in Republican control for more than two decades. She also becomes the first woman to represent Arizona in the Senate.

In Florida, meantime, the recounts still under way in key races ahead of Thursday's deadline. Tensions continue to flare, prompting a judge to urge both sides to, quote, "ramp down the rhetoric."

There is a lot to cover. We want to begin, though, with Dan Simon, who is live in the devastated town of Paradise, California, with more on that breaking story -- Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica.

Well, there was always a concern that you would have a very high death toll with this fire, given the fact that it came in so fast and that you have a lot of elderly and retirement folks who live in this community.

Well, now here we are, 42 people dead; and we know that there are going to be more search-and-recovery crews out today. There are also going to be some cadaver dogs.

And you also have the gruesome realty that many of the bodies were simply burned beyond recognition. So they're asking family members whom they suspect lost loved ones to provide DNA samples so ultimately, they can identify the remains.

In the meantime, let me explain where I am. This is a Safeway grocery store that has been destroyed. This is something that everybody can relate to. This is the shopping cart section, and once again, this just underscores how much has been lost in this community. Homes and businesses and schools and churches is just absolutely overwhelming -- John.

BERMAN: Dan, let me ask you where firefighters think they stand in this battle. Are they beginning to contain this blaze?

SIMON: Well, fortunately, over the last couple of days this fire has grown only modestly. Right now it's standing at about 117,000 acres, and it's 30 percent contained. It appears that the fire is burning away from populated communities so they feel like they have a handle on things.

Right now, at least as far as Paradise is concerned, the main focus is just trying to go in and see if they can find any more bodies. Right now the number of missing stands at about 100, but honestly, they really don't know. It could be a lot more than that.

So we're told at least 150 more people are going to be out just searching for bodies. It's so gruesome.

BERMAN: All right. Very difficult work ahead. Dan Simon, thank you for being there for us, please keep us posted.

For ways you can help those affected by the California wildfires go to CNN.com/impact.

Big political news overnight. A groundbreaking victory for Democrats in the Arizona Senate race. Democratic Representative Kyrsten Sinema defeated Republican Martha McSally, flipping a seat that had been in Republican hands for more than two decades. Sinema is Arizona's first female senator, and her win guarantees Democrats at least 47 seats in the Senate, a better night than it looked like it would be for them one week ago.

Republicans hold 51 seats. Two races are still undecided in Mississippi. There's a run off that won't be decided until the end of the month. And in Florida, well, who knows?

BERMAN: There's a recount.

HILL: There is that old recount thing happening.

These are the numbers where things stand right now in Florida. Workers have been working throughout the night. These are live pictures from Broward County. A lot busier in Broward County early this morning than it was yesterday. This will heat up. This will only get busier ahead of Thursday's deadline. A Florida judge is telling both sides to ramp down the rhetoric.

HILL: In the House Democrats have picked up a net of 30 seats at this point. Keep in mind, ten key races are still to be decided.

But this brings the current balance of power in the House to 225 Democratic-held seats to 200 Republican seats.

[06:05:05] Joining us now senior Washington correspondent for Politico.com Anna Palmer; "New York Times" op-ed columnist Frank Bruni; and CNN senior political analyst John Avlon. As we look at all of this, I do want to start with what happened overnight where we saw this win in Arizona for Kyrsten Sinema, flipping the seat that has been held for 24 years by Republicans, and she's the first woman. There's a lot happening there.

ANNA PALMER, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO.COM: I don't think you can underscore how big this is for Democrats, just in terms of enthusiasm, they are going to be coming back. They have to get through this December that is going to be really stuff, but to know that they have a win here. They're looking at Mississippi, feeling like the runoff, they could potentially make moves there. So for Democrats, I think this is a real kind of buoy to them in terms of thinking, hey, it wasn't as bad of a night as everybody thought on Tuesday.

BERMAN: It's interesting. Our friend Ron Brownstein has always liked to say over the last few years, probably the last ten years, he says Arizona is the future of the Democratic Party and always has been. Which is to say that it's this goal that's never achievable, but, Frank, it looks like finally for Democrats, they've made inroads in that Sun Belt where they need to grow.

FRANK BRUNI, OP-ED COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": It is very achievable now, and this completely changes the calculus for 2020. I mean, this means Arizona where another seat is up for grabs in 2020 is going to be a main focus of the Democratic Party. It's going to be a main focus of the Republicans.

I mean, it's interesting. Martha McSally welded herself to Donald Trump's side in the final month of that campaign, and it did not do the trick for her. So how does the Republican in 2020 campaign? What does this mean?

But yes, Arizona is now very much at the center of Democratic attention even more so than in the past.

HILL: Go ahead, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, New Mexico has gone from being a swing state to Democratic. Now Arizona is in that area. Colorado, you know, big wins for Democrats, including the nation's first openly gay governor. So really, that whole Four Corners areas in the southwest is trending Democrat with the exception of Utah.

You know, Democrats made mistakes historically about putting too much effort on flipping Arizona, but this isn't a big deal. This isn't just John McCain's seat. It's Barry Goldwater's seat.

HILL: The other thing to point out, though. You talk about Martha McSally really aligning with President Trump. This was a bitter race on both sides.

And what we saw from both candidates as we were moving into this home stretch, it was not pretty; And it required a lot, you know, from both parties. It will be interesting to see how that plays out moving forward.

BRUNI: I think Martha McSally deserves credit for the way she conceded. In contrast the way she behaved over these days with the way Rick Scott, for example, has behaved.

There was Donald Trump right out of the gate, was raising questions about fraud in Arizona based on absolutely nothing. The national Republican Party was backing that up.

Martha McSally didn't join that and her concession speech with her dog beside her last night, I mean, that's what you want to see. You want to see people moving on and telling the country to come together and saying this is a process to be respected.

BERMAN: It may have been an easier for Martha McSally to concede, giving the fact that she may end up being a senator in the next four weeks.

AVLON: Right.

BERMAN: Explain what we're talking about here.

PALMER: Yes. So Senator Kyle, who was appointed, is going to be stepping down; and the governor is expected to appoint someone. She is top of mind that everybody is talking about would be, you know, kind of a person that is going to be in that seat. So I think she was trying to already act senatorial before she was --

BERMAN: And she could end up being the senior senator --

PALMER: Right.

BERMAN: -- from the state of Arizona even though she lost an election there.

AVLON: She will be. I mean, if Kyle leaves in January of 2019 as promised, she will be. I should say technically John McCain's seat is Kyle's seat not Sinema's seat. So --

BERMAN: Dennis DeConcini is on your office phone calling you to complain right now about your statement there.

HILL: As we're watching everything happen in Arizona, of course, we're all counting down to the Thursday deadline in Florida. Recounts happening there. What really stood out is the judge yesterday who said, "I want you both to," in his words, "ramp down the rhetoric."

We have talked so much, as we know, about language and how important it is, but to hear Judge Frank come out and say, "You all need to get it together and stop a little bit of the crazy, that's a big deal."

BRUNI: And he's absolutely right. I mean, John and you were talking earlier. We covered the 2000 recount sort of from Austin. We were both on the Bush campaign as reporters. It has -- it took mere days for the rhetoric to get to a point in Florida that it took weeks for that to happen back in 2000. And I think that's a perfect reflection of how much more partisan

things have gotten, how much more cynical politicians are in their approach to this and how Donald Trump has sort of given the green light to go after the integrity of processes an integrity of institutions.

I mean, this is an echo of what he was doing even before November 2016 when he anticipated a loss and he was paving the way to say it's fraud, it's rigged, it's not a true result. We're seeing -- we're hearing an echo of that in the way people are behaving in Florida.

BERMAN: It's interesting, because in your paper today it has a really interesting article about maybe why Republicans are doing this. Because I was curious. I've been curious for days why Rick Scott and Republicans are so angry, given that the margins there seem relatively safe.

It makes it even more unseemly that they're yelling fraud from the beginning. And Anna, "The Times" makes a case today -- Maggie Haberman is on that byline -- that this isn't about now. It's about the future. It's about the political argument about legitimacy. It's about the political fight they want to be in for the next several years.

[06:10:05] PALMER: It's all about 2020, and it's all about what's going to happen for Donald Trump, where he is going to be able to potentially delegitimize some of these states in these races where he might not be able to win. Which --

HILL: Go ahead.

AVLON: I think the voting wars have been going on for a long time and, yes, they're going to get worse. There's a lot of fear in the projections on 2020 right now, but that fear is being ratcheted up intentionally by the president, echoed by Rick Scott. I mean, the fact that the Trump campaign was literally fundraising off fearmongering in the Florida recount, saying it was stolen last night. That's extraordinary.

And I think sometimes in these conversations, because it's all just slight escalation, we don't appreciate, for example, yesterday morning when the president tweeted that a recount could not be held in Florida, because every vote was tainted. That is a departure. It's not just a matter of degrees. That's something very different even from this president.

BERMAN: I will note also on Veterans Day weekend when the military and overseas ballots still have several days where they could be sent in. He seemed to be suggesting we shouldn't accept overseas military ballots. Some people took that to be something, again, unseemly. It is the one-week anniversary, and we're waiting until the 8 a.m. hour to find out what Erica got me.

HILL: It's going to be big, so everybody stick around. Yes.

AVLON: A pony. BERMAN: Let's reflect for a moment, Anna, on where we are a week

later. I really do think it's different than where we were on Tuesday night. And part of the reason is because so many of the results that have happened since Tuesday have trended toward the Democrats. Arizona is one example of that. But where are we?

PALMER: I mean, I think there's a lot of PTSD after 2016. Democrats even at the 8 p.m., 9 p.m. hour on election night were unwilling to kind of have that victory lap.

And I think what you're starting to see now is this organization around the fact that they are going to control the House. Nancy Pelosi is trying to figure out if she can cobble up the votes to become speaker. It looks like she will be, but this is going to be a different dynamic.

And in the Senate you're seeing some of these races trend towards Democrats. They're feeling a lot better, and I think the real question is can they use this momentum in Washington towards 2020. That's going to be the big question.

HILL: It will also be interesting to see if they can use that momentum to work together, in all honesty, because you do have this group of progressives who are coming in who really have an agenda. And they want to show that they are pushing for that agenda. You have Nancy Pelosi who's being much more measured in her language. And whether or not they can come together, John, and work as a cohesive unit.

AVLON: That, of course, is one of the big tests, but the reality is the reason that things a week ago were a little subdued is that the big progressive stars running statewide in the South didn't pull it out. A lot of hopes invested in that. But people like Jon Tester did. People like Kyrsten Sinema did.

The reality is that on the winning side of the ledger, the more pragmatic Democrats had a bigger night than the folks on the far left.

BERMAN: But you know the progressives would fight back at you and say that Stacey Abrams and Andrew Gillum and Beto O'Rourke did better than anyone ever has in that place. The problem here is that I don't know that there is a clear lesson. So Democrats have to cast about, as Democrats often do, to figure out where they go.

BRUNI: It's tough to find a lesson, because we're talking about Kyrsten Sinema, I mean, she won by hugging the center, not by being a bold progressive. So you can -- you can look at the results, and you can spin it many different ways.

If you look at the House -- you know this better than I do -- most of the incoming Democrats who flipped seats flipped those seats by being moderates in moderate districts and that creates this great tension in the caucus right now in terms of how they go forward, whether they press for impeachment, as he mentioned, Erica, which initiatives they prioritize. There's a lot of -- there's a lot of diversity and a lot of political tension in that caucus right now. BERMAN: It's true that there are many moderates who did flip, but

then there's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And there is Ayanna Pressley. And there's -- you know, you can go down the list. And there are plenty of people on that side, too. And there are plenty of people on that side, too. And there are plenty of people on that side, too.

BRUNI: But most of those progressives, including the two you just mentioned, they're in seats that were going to go to the Democrats anyway, once they win their primary. So yes, there are voices in the caucus now who will push in progressive directions, but they won't tell you a lot about what the Democratic Party should do going forward to flip seats.

BERMAN: Friends, stand by. There is more to discuss.

HILL: Yes, there is. With those votes, of course, still being counted in several key races, CNN is airing a primetime special that begins at 8 p.m. Eastern tonight, "Election Night in America Continued." You don't want to miss it.

Just a hint, John Berman, you may be able to use your gift while you're watching tonight.

BERMAN: That's great. I love that. A tease.

There's a lot more to discuss one week after, because I do think the perspective is very different.

All right. A different subject. Does anyone think there's something going on with the special counsel? Does anyone think there's a lot of smoke here, not just what we're seeing in Washington but also what we saw with the president over the weekend that maybe something is in their head?

Well, there is one person who says he expects to be indicted and soon. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:24] HILL: Conservative activist and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi says he expects to be indicted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Corsi, an associate of Roger Stone, telling his YouTube followers he thinks he'll be charged with lying to investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME CORSI, ASSOCIATE OF ROGER STONE: The entire negotiation discussions have just blown up. And now I fully anticipate that in the next few days, I will be indicted by Mueller for some form or other of giving false information to the special counsel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: We are back with Anna Palmer, Frank Bruni and John Avlon.

And John, as we look at this, what's fascinating, too, is Roger Stone suggesting that the special counsel in an interview may actually be more interested in Corsi's relationship with Donald Trump, which there's talk stems from that book in 2011 about birtherism and how Donald Trump got to where he was at, but really, how that relationship may have continued.

AVLON: I would be surprised if he was spending a lot of time going into the roots of birtherism. But Jerome Corsi is a conspiracy entrepreneur, and he was, you know, early came onto the stage with the swift boating of John Kerry, but really jumped the shark with going all in on birtherism which, of course, is then how Donald Trump introduces himself to the Republican Party.

He's played footsie with 9/11 truthers. He's played footsie with white nationalists on radio. He is a -- one of those cats and characters. And fitting for that, not only is he part of this sort of Roger Stone swamp on the far right of the Republican Party that often indulges in conspiracy theories.

[06:20:01] But with this announcement there was a little bit of a grift, too. He's trying to raise money for his defense.

BERMAN: And I will say we'd love to hear from a better source than Jerome Corsi that he's about to be indicted, because he may not be the most reliable individual on this or anything.

HILL: Perhaps not.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: But Frank, when you look at what's gone on with the special counsel, we knew by the calendar and his silence for the last month that this would be fertile ground in the weeks after the election.

BRUNI: Yes, no. We knew that he never stopped working. We stopped talking about him, because the election was coming along.

But we've all thought for some time that in the next couple months is when he's aiming to wrap up. He above everyone does not want this to go forever, because the longer it goes on, the more chances there are for it to be meddled in and the longer it goes on, the easier it is to say this is an endless limitless witch-hunt.

So I think we're seeing the final chapter here. I think a lot of these discussions are about that final chapter. And I don't think four months from now, we're still going to be talking about this.

HILL: We're also seeing John alluded to some of the smoke we have been seeing. So you know, we're hearing from Corsi, the fact that we're seeing a little bit more ramp-up in terms of activity.

BERMAN: There were eight lawyers working yesterday on a bank holiday.

HILL: Exactly. And then Michael Cohen, who wouldn't answer questions about why he and his attorney were there, but Michael Cohen in and out of D.C. yesterday.

All of that, Anna, when you add it up, if you want to add it up in a certain way, it definitely looks like there's more movement.

PALMER: Yes, I mean, we've been talking to a lot of sources in Washington, saying that there is an expectation in the next coming weeks that there's going to be things that Mueller had stopped because of the election, wanted to wait, wanted to make sure to move beyond that.

There's also some speculation among Democrats that he also wanted to make sure that the people were in place at the committees: who was going to be the chairman, who was going to be ranking member. He's going to need some defense, because clearly, Republicans will take shots at probably whatever comes out of that. And so he's kind of putting the blocks together to make his case as tight as it possibly can be made.

BERMAN: So let's also look at where the White House has been the last week, as it's clear that Mueller seems to be moving towards something. The president put his guy at the Justice Department. He fired Jeff Sessions, now has an acting attorney general who has said on CNN that he wants to, you know, starve out the Mueller investigation.

Plus, we had grumpy President Trump over in Europe over the weekend. It does beg the question whether the White House is actually aware and preparing nor something this week, John.

AVLON: I think there's every sense that Trump's paranoia is riding high because now we're post-election. Look, they made the move to replace Sessions the day after the election. He wanted to stay through the week. Chief of Staff Kelly said no.

And I think that's clearly in anticipation of Mueller movements. Now, Whitaker has a couple problems, not only that he came on CNN's air and wrote op-eds questioning the legitimacy of the Mueller investigation, but he's clearly a purely political appointee.

This is about getting someone who will be a yes man to Donald Trump in the attorney general's office. Now there's not just op-eds but real legal questions and suits -- a suit, in fact, questioning whether the appointment was constitutional.

But this is about flanking the Mueller investigation. Separately, Mueller is going to try to go forward, play it by the book, and that's where things come to a head in Congress. Will those Republicans who said that it would be unwise and dangerous for Donald Trump to try to stop or shut down or curtail the Mueller investigation actually have the spine to back it up if it comes to that?

HILL: There's the question about, yes, Mueller wanting to wrap this up so that it doesn't drag on for a number of reasons. But he also is -- I mean, to a "T" described as the type of person who he's not going to wrap it up just to wrap it up. He is going to see it through.

So when you're dealing with those two things, Frank, I mean, trying to get those two to play out, is there a sense or maybe, Ann, I don't know, who has a better answer on this, is there a sense that there is now an added pressure and whether or not that's actually trickling over into special counsel?

PALMER: I mean, I don't have the sense that he is going to feel the pressure. I think he is steadfast. I think everything that -- any indication he is going about it, the press is kind of trying to figure out at every turn where he is and where we are, he's five steps further down the road. And so I think he's going to keep doing that. Every indication that there is no kind of changing of course for him.

BERMAN: And look, again, there's so much activity on both sides between the lawyers' activity, all the witnesses being called in, Michael Cohen down there and then what we've seen from President Trump.

It seems to me -- we all talk about the Democratic Congress coming in January. We have a long way to go until we get that.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, we're still the middle of November. There is six weeks of a lame-duck session here where Republicans still have all the levers of power. I'm very curious to see what happens here and with the administration.

We should note the office of legal counsel, we have reporting today, the Justice Department, which of course, is the president's Justice Department at this point, is going to come out and say that the appointment of Matt Whitaker as acting attorney general is legal, you know.

AVLON: Shocking.

BERMAN: Shocking. Shocking. But they've going to say they have legal grounds there. I think we're going to see -- we're going to see these come -- this come to a head sooner rather than later.

BRUNI: Yes. I also think I want to echo something you said. Robert Mueller has been to thorough here, we were talking about Jerome Corsi earlier today. Whoever thought that name was going to come up, right, in this investigation.

At every turn we've seen him be more than less thorough. And I think he deserves credit for tuning out all of this political noise in keeping his nose to the grindstone and forward, forward, forward. As thorough as he's trying to be he understands there is a ticking clock in terms of the credibility if it goes on so long.

AVLON: What's so surreal about Corsi surfacing and Roger Stone surfacing and WikiLeaks, all these figures from, you know -- I wrote a book years ago. These figures were a cast of characters who were on the fringes, the outer reaches of American politics, are now in the orbit of the Oval Office. That's a sign of the times. That's really surreal.

BERMAN: And where are the Democrats now if this does last until January, Anna? You have your finger on the pulse of what's going to happen there. Nancy Pelosi saying we are not going to run to impeachment here. What about the committees? What are they going to go after early?

PALMER: I mean, I think right now you have House Democrats trying to stop any kind of overreach. Right? There's going to be a ton. You have already seen letters that are being sent to the White House, don't, you know -- you know, don't delete any e-mails. You need to keep your records safe.

They are going to go going -- I mean, dozens and dozens of investigations from Trump's tax records to all of these different agencies. You're going to see just a ton, a flood of information that they're going to be wanting, but subpoenas aren't the first step. This is the first step.

They're trying as hard as possible to not overreach. They know that it's coming. You also see the president trying to say this is going to be political harassment. There's a lot messaging on this right now. And so the back and forth is just the beginning of that.

BRUNI: It's so interesting. Republicans have spent so much time painting Nancy Pelosi as this, you know, hyperpartisan boogie woman. She's one of the ones saying let's not overreach.

HILL: Yes.

BRUNI: She's one of the ones at the forefront urging caution, and that is not the caricature the Republicans have painted of her at all.

PALMER: Corruption is going to be one of their top three priorities, but she has said we are going to move slowly. We are going to move in a way that is a manner that people can respect and that the American public can feel like there is some confidence in.

BERMAN: Frank, Anna, John, thank you very much. I think something is going to happen in the next two days. That's just my gut.

HILL: In the next two days?

BERMAN: It feels like there's a lot of stuff going on.

HILL: I feel like something is happening. I don't know if it's the next two days, but we'll talk about a wager in the break.

BERMAN: Stay close to your cell phones.

HILL: Just ahead, a high school photo sparks an uproar. A grope of -- a group of, rather, male mostly white students seen giving what appears to be a Nazi salute. We're going to speak with one of the students in that picture whose arm is not raised. So what happened here? What's behind all of this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)