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Melania Trump Calls for Firing of Top National Security Aide; California Wildlife Death Toll Rises to 50; Trump Lawyers Could Submit Answers to Mueller in Coming Days; CNN Sues White House for Suspending Jim Acosta's Press Pass. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 14, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of administrations make changes after midterms. I'm very, very happy with this cabinet.

[05:58:51] ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There is actually a lot of turmoil in the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first lady was looking for a public shaming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't comment on other people's staffing issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new wildfire sparking in Southern California overnight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This fire is not even out, and it has already set records.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been here my entire life, and I've never seen anything like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's going to be more devastation to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, November 14, 6 a.m. here in New York.

President Trump is reportedly moving towards a major shake-up in his cabinet and West Wing. This after a stunning and unprecedented public rebuke of top official by first lady Melania Trump. She is calling for the deputy national security adviser, Mira Ricardel, to be fired after Ricardel reportedly clashed with Mrs. Trump's staff on that trip to Africa. The first lady's office releasing a statement, saying that Ricardel, quote, "no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House."

An official tells CNN that President Trump does intend to fire Ricardel, and it appears she is not the only one headed for the exit.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In fact, CNN has been told that the only West Wing staffers who should feel secure in their jobs are Jared and Ivanka. That's his daughter and son-in-law. Jeff Zeleny was told that.

So that's in line with "New York Times" reporting that the president's family driving the forced staff exodus. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen may be the next to go. She may be followed by chief of staff John Kelly.

And if you think this is all getting to the president, "The Washington Post" says maybe you're right. Look at this headline: "Five Days of Fury: Inside Trump's Paris Temper, Election Woes and Staff Upheaval." A senior official tells the paper, quote, "This is a week where things could really get dicey."

Could?

CAMEROTA: Get?

BERMAN: Meantime, CNN has learned that President Trump met again with his lawyers on Monday and could submit his written answers to questions from the special counsel's team any day now.

Let's take a breath.

All right. Joining us now, former press secretary for the Clinton White House, Joe Lockhart; senior Washington correspondent for Politico, Anna Palmer; and CNN senior political analyst, John Avlon.

Let's start with the staff upheaval, which is not unusual after a mid- term election or any election. It happens. What's unusual to me is that the first lady and her office thought they had to put out a press release to get the message out. There are different ways. You can shout across the hall. You know, you could pick up the phone.

CAMEROTA: I mean, isn't stuff like this generally reserved for pillow talk at night? Where if you want your president, the husband, to do something in the past, isn't that sort of what Nancy Reagan or somebody else generally relied on? That's a different tack.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is very different. I mean, John, it's not just you. This is objectively different for the first lady to go out after somebody via press release.

Nancy Reagan famously took out President Reagan's chief of staff, Don Regan. But that was really through pressure. That was through using direct and indirect means, maybe including pillow talk. This isn't a press release. This is surreal. And it's a stepping up of the overall atmosphere that this is just one giant reality show, with death stares and hair pulling to come. But their career's on the line, and the fact that the first lady is going after the deputy national security adviser, as to the absurdity. I mean, this is fairly internecine stuff. On the West Wing -- as "The West Wing Turns" continues. CAMEROTA: As the stomach churns. As -- as has been pointed out,

though, Anna, this deputy national security adviser has not endeared herself to a lot of people. So she seems to have crossed John Kelly. I mean, she was John Bolton's person. And as we know, there is all sorts of internecine fighting.

So here's just a little bit more of the statement from Melania Trump: "It is the position of the office of the first lady that Mira Ricardel no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House." How unprecedented is the public statement?

ANNA PALMER, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: It's pretty shocking. I feel while the president is often tweeting crazy things. You know, it's top of mind for him. The first lady's office really doesn't and hasn't. I mean, she pretty much has kind of kept a much more backseat driver and hasn't been a very public figure, has done a couple of these trips. So this is, I think, pretty shocking, for sure.

I also think, I mean, as you say, she worked for Josh Bolton, sharp elbows. Apparently, she also has some very sharp elbows, and clearly, the first lady is pushing back.

BERMAN: Look, we know who's going to win this battle. The reporting on this is that Mira Ricardel is over, is about to be fire, has not been fired. She's on her way up. But the job is over, whether she packed up and left, I think that is the murky question at this point.

Joe Lockhart, John Kelly, chief of staff, still works at the White House as of 6:03, 32, 33, 34. Is he going to make it to 45?

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Check Twitter. I mean, this is -- I feel like if I ever got to go on Onion TV, this is what we'd be talking about.

I mean, the killer line in "The Washington Post" story is a White House official saying on background that this is like "The Maury Show," and the only thing we're missing is a paternity test.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my God.

LOCKHART: It is unprecedented. And she has put the president in a really difficult situation, which is now publicly, he has to say, "I'm doing what my wife tells me to do." And it's on a national security job, something that, you know, she -- it's not like it's her portfolio.

BERMAN: Why is that embarrassing? I do it ten times a day.

CAMEROTA: Your work wife.

LOCKHART: That is true. That is true.

BERMAN: Exactly.

LOCKHART: But to broadcast this. It is -- it may be great gripping television, but it -- but it's no way to run the White House.

CAMEROTA: And is the way to run the White House to have your daughter and son-in-law be involved? I mean, how -- what do we know about -- what do we know about Jared and Ivanka's involvement in all these personnel changes.

AVLON: What we know is that the reason that the reason that daughters and sons-in-laws don't usually serve in American administrations, because that doesn't work out terribly well in the history of banana republics. But that's the circumstances.

And look, it's one of the many reasons, also that, if you're a staffer, if you've worked in a campaign or worked in any administration, you can't get in a fight with the family, because you lose. No matter how close you are to the principal, you're not getting invited to Thanksgiving, and so it's a dumb fight to have. But rarely is the family in the administration.

[06:05:15] BERMAN: You bring up a great point, you both do, because ultimately, the Melania Trump and the Mira Ricardel drama isn't necessarily the big drama going on in the West Wing that involves the family. It's what happens to chief of staff John Kelly and the fact that Jared and Ivanka want him out, reportedly, and Nick Ayers, who is the chief of staff for the vice president, in.

Anna Palmer, you've been doing all kinds of reporting -- Politico always does -- on all this stuff. And you make the case that, if you just take a step back from this, this White House had a hard enough time staffing up the first time. This isn't going to help.

PALMER; Yes, I think that's going to be the biggest problem for this White House as you look at the next two years, potentially the next four after that. They didn't have the A-team that wanted to come into this White House to begin with. There's very few kind of the establishment Republicans, people that are the grown-ups in the groom, did not want to do this, and we have an environment like this. Who's going to say, "Yes, you know what? It's my turn. I'm ready to take this on"?

AVLON: And here's where I think the appointment of Acting A.G. Whitaker actually becomes instructive, because the gravitational pull becomes to towards sycophants and yes men and tough guys and not to people who have independent expertise. And that's a problem for not only the administration but, of course, for the administration of the country.

CAMEROTA: Joe, Josh Dawsey has reporting this morning in "The Washington Post" that -- in what he calls five days of furry, that the, as we suspected, the Paris trip did not go as planned. As we didn't know just how upset the president was about the optics about all -- about the coverage where he skipped the going to the cemetery, where it was a, you know, U.S. soldier burial ground and that I guess he didn't anticipate the backlash that would have happened.

And so he's been in, you know, a fit of pique then and that that may be driving some of it. LOCKHART: Yes. I think maybe the runner up for the killer line in the papers this morning is Douglas Brinkley, where he says the president is the bull who carries his own china with him.

CAMEROTA: Not bad. Not bad.

BERMAN: Memorized line.

LOCKHART: But the reality is he shouldn't have been surprised by any of this. And I think the interesting thing is -- and it's conjecture here, but you're seeing now the infection of what's going on with Mueller, I think, with his mood. And, you know, all of the Trump historians say the more he gets backed into a corner, the more he lashes out. And I think we're seeing that.

So, you know, it's a sign that something is going on with Mueller. We don't know for sure. CNN is reporting that he's preparing these -- these answers, and that's another side we don't know.

But, you know, the weekend in Paris was an international embarrassment. And it's not just that he didn't go to the event. He apparently berated Theresa May, the British prime minister, on the way over, he tweeted insulting tweets towards the French prime minister, and then he expect people to say, "Oh, you did a great job."

CAMEROTA: He didn't like the lecture from Macron. We could have seen that coming.

LOCKHART: But that was a -- he tweeted on the way over before the lecture. What did you expect Macron to say?

BERMAN: We're going to talk about Mueller much more in the next segment, but it's clear that saying -- it's clear the midterm results is hanging over his head, because as each day passes, it becomes clear that it was better for the Democrats and worse for the Republicans.

And it was clear that he was treated in a very harsh way by the French leader over there. It's clearly on the president's mind, and we also know he's got this staffing issue going on.

And can I talk about Nick Ayers for a second? Nick Ayers is the guy who's running the vice president's office as chief of staff right now. Apparently, that's who Jared and Ivanka want in. He's a political operative. A lot of us have dealt with it over the years during campaigns.

The thing I'm interested in in all the articles this morning is that the president is getting warnings that people in the West Wing could quit if he gets the job? What's the beef? I don't quite get it.

PALMER: I mean, I think Nick is an operative. He's really served the vice president very well. I think he kept him out of a lot of the fray so far in this Trump administration.

I think it's going to be very interesting to see. He's clearly a political operative. It would make sense to have the chief of staff going into a 2020 presidential election to be more political. Certainly, John Kelly does not serve that purpose.

But like everybody, you know, you have people who like you, people who maybe don't like you. And in this kind of war of words that is happening, there's clearly some background kind of whispers saying, "Hey, like, maybe he's not the guy."

He also has a lot of political aspirations that we've written about before. So do you want to be the -- if you want to go back to Georgia and potentially run, is being the chief of staff of the president, this president in particular, the right choice?

LOCKHART: And look at what being chief of staff to the president has done to reputations. Imagine John Kelly sitting in his office yesterday when he looks at his computer and sees the first lady has just put out a press release saying someone should be fired. You know, it is banana republic-like.

[06:10:00] And I -- I think anyone would have to go in with their eyes wide open, because it -- and you know, it's -- it's a career stain for most people who come out and, for some, a career killer.

CAMEROTA: But it can also be a career booster. I mean, if you stay the right amount of time, if you play it right, being in the White House, having this amount of access to power. We have seen it work out for some people.

BERMAN: It's also the honor of a lifetime. I mean, I do think that people go to the White House to serve.

CAMEROTA: It could boost you. I forget about the public service aspect of this.

BERMAN: Work for the country.

PALMER: Nikki Haley --

AVLON: Can't imagine why.

LOCKHART: There are a few. Nikki Haley.

CAMEROTA: Dina Powell.

LOCKHART: Dina Powell. Yes, maybe some of the -- some of the economic people. But for most people, they have been shown the door in a very strange way.

BERMAN: Even the Trump loyalists from early on, like Jeff Sessions. Obviously, there are people who are serving this administration and patriotically trying to serve their country, even when they may privately disagree with the president. That's, I think, absolutely worthy of all our respect.

But it's the churn and burn style of president, where he demands loyalty but doesn't give it. And these -- you keep getting up careers ending up as road kill for sometimes absurd reasons.

BERMAN: All right, guys. Stand by. I can't wait to hear whatever lines Joe has memorized coming in this morning.

CAMEROTA: This is a -- this is a talent. Thank you all.

OK. We are following some breaking news for you, because this morning the death toll in California has climbed to 50 people as devastating wildfires ravage that state, 48 of those deaths connected to the Camp Fire alone.

The frantic search for dozens of missing people continues. At this hour, we are learning about another plays, the Sierra Fire that has broken out in San Bernardino County as crew battle stubborn fires on so many fronts there.

CNN's Bill Weir is live for us in Malibu, California, with the very latest. I know it's been a long night, Bill.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, not as long for the folks who are actually fighting these fires, Alisyn. Good morning.

Yes, you know, Mr. Rogers said when he saw scary stuff his mom would tell him, "Look for the helpers." So many helpers.

And yesterday, we followed the plume of smoke up into the mountains North of Malibu, sort of overlooking the next valley, West Lake Village, Lake Sherman, and we saw firsthand the helpers in the sky. It was a full-on aerial assault as it just takes one ember coming from these burned-out areas blowing into the next valley to create a whole new firestorm.

And they are not messing around. Trying to contain this thing, which was about 97,000 acres. It burned another three or 4,000 acres yesterday, despite efforts like you're seeing. Helicopters, dozens of them, swarming and dropping bucketful and cargo load full of water and flame retardant. Big bombers and DC-10s, dropping -- you know, imagine the pilots bouncing around in these winds, if you've ever been on a turbulent flight, trying to hit those hot spots, precisely to protect the residential areas below.

And then I hope you have some of the images we shot yesterday in this surreal scene. It was almost a perfect day for surfing on world- famous Malibu Beach, and those who ignored the evacuation order were enjoying these glassy three-foot swells and sharing the Pacific Ocean with these giant super scoopers, these Canadian planes that came down, would scoop up sea water and go take them into the canyons to fight those fires.

And meanwhile, you can see why so many people refuse to leave what they consider paradise because of those perfect waves, that Southern California quintessential lifestyle, despite the mudslides that are certain to come, now that the hillsides have been wiped clean and these relentless fires -- John and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. That's an amazing juxtaposition that you have there, yes.

BERMAN: That picture was everything. Bill Weir, amazing reporting. Thanks so much for showing us what's going on there, and then Mr. Roger's quote, "look for helpers." A lot of people out there in California doing that right now.

A flurry of activity in the Mueller investigation. President Trump's legal team could submit his written answer to the special counsel's questions any day now. The special counsel's lawyers, they've been working over time. There's Michael Cohen's mysterious trip to Washington. So what's about to happen? That's next.

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[06:17:56] BERMAN: President Trump and his legal team meeting Monday. They did meet on Monday to discuss written answers to the special counsel's questions about Russia collusion. Those answers could be sent to Robert Mueller's team in the coming days. But will the president answer questions in person about obstruction or other issues?

Back with us now, Joe Lockhart and John Avlon. And joining the conversation, former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates.

Laura, let me start with you. These written answers, they could be submitted any day now. There's this big meeting with the president's lawyers on Monday. There's lawyers working in the special counsel's office on Monday. There's Michael Cohen headed down to Washington. There are people saying they're going to be indicted here. Feels like a big week in this investigation.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not a lot going on, John. Not at all. At all, any time. It's not a big deal.

But my eyes are actually on the meeting. Because until you have an in-person discussion with somebody, the written answers are not going to be very impactful. They're highly vetted. They're going to have a lot of legalese and nuances and caveats and contingencies, ways in which, if you were to draw a flowchart how to evade more legal scrutiny.

They're not going to be very chockfull of comprehensive answers. And for that reason, what they could do if you're Mueller's team looking at any written answers that may be forthcoming is figuring out where do you see some gaps? Where has there not been the illumination that you want? And you'll target right on those areas.

The obstruction aspect will be probably a very minor part of a written answer but a much more lengthy part of a verbal discussion, because that's when the intent can be tested. Up until this point, it's simply on the paper and will be highly vetted and will not very impactful.

CAMEROTA: John, I remember a lot of talk before the midterms of, well, right after the midterms Robert Mueller is going to do something. He's going to act was the talk. I mean, it's now been a week --

BERMAN: A week. You're pretty antsy here. CAMEROTA: This news cycle has churned everything up to immediate.

AVLON: Everything has been churned up.

CAMEROTA: And very wise men shot predict that perhaps even that Friday --

BERMAN: I still do. I still do.

CAMEROTA: You still think last Friday that Mueller might --

BERMAN: I still think it's going to happen last Friday.

[06:20:00] AVLON: I thought you were describing President Trump's insistence that Jeff Sessions be fired the day after the election.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's what I mean. Some things do happen immediately. And so that means, I think, that Robert Mueller was not ready before the midterms and wasn't just waiting for the midterms to happen. Things are still happening behind the scenes.

AVLON: Things have been happening. Look, Mueller clearly has been holding fire and proceeding on the investigation, playing the game on his own time, as he does, and was intentionally quiet during roughly, I think, six weeks before the election, which is appropriate, especially in light of what happened with James Comey.

But things are clearly accelerating now. The president's own demeanor indicates it. He's spending more time with his lawyers, writing down those questions. Michael Cohen coming down to Washington with his lawyer, presumably to meet with Robert Mueller, although we don't know that for a fact.

So things are ratcheting up. It's been seven days. Our attorney general has been unceremoniously booted and replaced with -- with his chief of staff who seems to have primary qualification of loyalty to the president. So --

CAMEROTA: And dislike of the Mueller investigation.

AVLON: Yes. So all -- everything is coming to a point. You know, just wait a couple more days.

BERMAN: We don't know when it comes to the Mueller investigation. You know, he's been very quiet, but what we do know is what we see, and what we saw over the weekend with President Trump clearly agitated and the reporting from "The Washington Post" about the five days of fury.

LOCKHART: Listen, Mueller is going to do things on his own time table, but he's not immune to what's going on around him. John was right, that he didn't want to do something during -- in advance of the midterms.

Even if he had some indictments sealed, he didn't want to unseal them or -- because of Comey, because it's the right thing to do. I think the other thing is he's watching what -- what Trump is doing. Trump put Whitaker in there to stop him.

So what -- he normally might take three or four months to do, he may now do in three or four weeks. But the thing about Mueller is he'll do it the right way, even if it means that it doesn't satisfy us and he doesn't keep us informed.

But It does -- I think everyone -- everyone who's watching agrees that there does seem to be an acceleration, but there's no reason to believe that this is going to happen this week or next week. It will happen when he's ready.

COATES: And by the way, you think about this issue, what happened the day after the midterms? That artificial deadline that was really in place with the DOJ guidelines about not wanting to influence an election.

Well, the very next day, within 24 hours of the polls closing Jeff Sessions was fired and you had uncertainty about whether or not Rod Rosenstein was going to oversee the investigation, whether it was Matthew Whitaker. We've been opining what impact Matthew Whitaker's placement may have on the overall Mueller investigation.

But in real time, that particular deadline was thwarted by the action of the president of the United States. A continued thing that happens, every time he talks, every time he tweets, every time there are alternate explanations for firings and for discussions, he impacts the deadline and elongates it.

CAMEROTA: Laura, I want to stick with you for one second about the law. CNN took the very serious step yesterday of suing the White House, because they had revoked Jim Acosta's press pass. And in the realm of legal suits, I just want to get your take on give us context of what all this means.

COATES; Well, this is basically a First Amendment case, which is saying the government cannot in any way try to infringe upon the freedom of the press. This is a clear indication of somebody who is doing viewpoint-based discrimination, meaning it's not that I'm going to restrict all members of the pass -- of the press or going to make this particular area or access to me completely irrelevant and irrespective of whether or not you like me or don't like me or ask me favorable questions.

This seems to be the content of the lawsuit. I think it's right on here, it seems to be about there is a retaliatory action being taken because of the nature of my questioning to you, which is really viewpoint discrimination as core.

There's also a very clear directive that's in the history of the White House's taking back of press passes coming with "The Nation," a reporter back -- I think it was the '70s, talking about this very issue and saying there is a protocol. They have to have notice and opportunity to be heard. It's called due process, or at least an opportunity to explain oneself. That was withheld. It was not given.

And those two things combined with the fact that there has been a shifting explanation as to why his press pass was revoked, was it a physical assault of a White House intern, widely panned, even on "SNL"? Or was it a matter of content, viewpoint discrimination?

That explanation shown to a court, there may be a pretext. And the court does not appreciate, nor should it, any First Amendment violations of the press.

BERMAN: You say it's a First Amendment case, but it's a First and Fifth Amendment case, because it does get the due process. And that's where the precedent is with the Robert Sherrill case from the '70s, where an appeals court ruled that you can't do this without due process. You can't -- at that point it was grant -- not grant a press pass without explaining why and providing a process here.

And in this case, if you're going to apply that, you wouldn't think the White House could remove his press pass without going through a due process. And Joe, the explanation for the White House has been all over the place. I mean, it changed. And of course, they said to Jim, physically went after this woman, which he did not do. The video makes it crystal clear it did not happen.

[06:25:16] LOCKHART: They doctored the video.

BERMAN: And they doctored the video.

CAMEROTA: They played a doctored video.

AVLON: Yes.

Berman: So Joe, you've been behind the podium. You have been White House press secretary. Put this all in context.

LOCKHART: Well, I mean, it's a little kind of fantasy game you play when you wake up as press secretary. Like, whose -- whose hard pass can I pull today? You don't do it, though.

And it's -- not only is it wrong, it's -- it's illegal. There's -- there's a little bit going on here. The hard pass is not -- all it does is make it easier, you know, for you to get in and out every day. If you don't have the hard pass, you've got to call someone in the press office. They have got to go through the process of clearing you in. So that's all it is.

What they've done here is taken it away because of the way he was asking the questions and the content of the questions. They made a critical mistake here, though, and I'm not a lawyer but I know this will be a mistake. They -- they could have just said to him, well, you know, because you're rude, you're going have to go through an extra step every day, and when you call to get cleared in, we'll clear you in.

But you know, it's a way to sort of humiliate him a little bit. He did call and they denied him. So basically, this day pass, in and of itself, and the hard pass insures that, even if you have a rough day, you know, with the press secretary or the president, you're allowed in the next day. If you're only allowed a day pass, the next day, it's up to the White

House to say, "Today is not a good day. It's not" -- you know. So they clearly -- I think CNN has a strong public policy case. I'm not a lawyer. I assume that they have good lawyers. Ted Olsen's a great lawyer. That will make a good case.

And the White House has just, at every step, messed this up. And the part that I'm looking forward to is discovery. I really want to see these people --

CAMEROTA: Will it get to that point?

LOCKHART; You know, probably not because -- because who wants -- who wants to have Kellyanne Conway and Sarah Sanders talking about, "Well, this is what Trump made me do here and this is what I said here," but it would be fun to watch.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, John.

AVLON: And look -- Trump gave away the ghost in a subsequent comment after the hard pass was revoke by saying, "I can do this to anybody if I don't like their coverage."

And I think the fact, also, that Ted Olsen is representing, noted conservative jurist, represented Bush in Bush v. Gore, indicates this is about something bigger than short-term opposition or accusations. This is about American principles.

BERMAN: I will note that the White House has tried to hire Ted Olsen in the past for various things and could not land him. In this case, Ted Olsen chose to represent a case against the White House.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Thank you, all.

OK. So this story. A security guard fatally shot by police just moments after he subdued a suspect. Now his family is taking action. So we talk to their attorney about what they want, ahead.

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