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Interview with Democratic Representative Eric Swalwell (CA); California Wildfire Death Toll Rises to 50; Report Indicates President Trump Plans Further Changes in White House Staff; Melania Trump Demands Firing of Deputy National Security Adviser. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 14, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: NEW DAY continue right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, November 14th, 8:00 in the east.

So President Trump is reportedly moving towards a major shakeup in his cabinet and West Wing. This after a stunning and unprecedented public rebuke of a top official by first lady Melania Trump. She's calling for the deputy national security adviser Mira Ricardel to be fired after Ricardel reportedly clashed with Mrs. Trump's staff on that trip to Africa. The first lady's office releasing a statement saying Ricardel, quote, "no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House." An official tells CNN President Trump does intend to fire Ricardel and it appears she's not the only one headed for the exit.

BERMAN: So CNN has been told that the only West Wing staffers who should feel secure in their jobs are Jared and Ivanka, his daughter and son-in-law. Jeff Zeleny was told that by an insider.

Now, "The New York Times" is reporting that it is the president's family driving the forced staff exits. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen may be the next to go. She could be followed by chief of staff John Kelly. Maybe you think all of this is getting to the president. The "Washington Post" says you might be right. Look at this headline, "Five days of fury inside President Trump's Paris temper, election woes, and staff upheaval." A senior official tell the paper, quote, "This is a week where things could really get dicey."

CAMEROTA: You can't fire Jared and Ivanka, but you could put them up for adoption.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: They're White House staffers. He actually could fire them the White House. He can't fire them from being part of the family.

CAMEROTA: We'll ask Josh Dawsey. Joining us now is White House reporter for the "Washington Post" and CNN political analyst, Josh Dawsey. Josh, great to see you, and thank you for sharing your reporting with us. I'll read a portion of it for everybody's enjoyment. This is on the way to Paris this weekend on Air Force One, the phone call the president took from Prime Minister Theresa May. "Trump berated May for Britain not doing enough in his assessment to contain Iran. He questioned her over Brexit and complained about the trade deals he sees as unfair with European countries. May has endured Trump's churlish temper before, but still her aides were shaken by his especially foul mood according to U.S. and European officials briefed on the conversation." So what was that about on the way over that he was in such a foul mood?

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it was supposed to be an inauspicious call. Theresa May was calling to say congratulations and she was going to miss him on his overseas trip in Paris, and talk about possibly getting together again soon. And the president lashed out at her over Iran. It's something he also brought up with Emmanuel Macron, the French, president, saying the Europeans are not doing enough to contain Iran.

And it was a number of times this weekend, Alisyn, where the president was pretty frustrated at his own staff for the backlash over the missed visit to the cemetery that he caught flak over. And Macron, he started tweeting at him angrily yesterday. He was pretty frustrated with him in person as well. Some complaints about the midterm elections, some thinking about changing his staff. It's been five days of uncertainty and upheaval in the White House, and I think we're seeing some of that shake out now to see what happens next.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about those missed visits to military cemeteries, including back here in Arlington. So you write here "Trump told aides he thought he looked, quote, "terrible" and blamed his chief of staff's office and deputy White House chief of staff Zach Fuentes in particular for not counseling him that skipping the cemetery visit would be a public relations nightmare." Normally the president of the United States knows about the symbolism of visiting a cemetery on Veterans Day. But what was it here? He didn't expect the media to notice this?

DAWSEY: It's not that he didn't expect them to notice this. He was caught off guard at how ferocious the backlash was. The president was told, he was advised by the chief of staff's office that he could not fly there. He offered to drive, and they essentially said no, Mr. President, it will take a long time for you to get there. We'll block off roads. It doesn't make sense for you to drive that far to the cemetery. And the president acquiesced to that by our reporting. And in return there were several days of him getting crushed by his criticisms, by Democrats, by partisans, by some even Republicans questioning why he did not go to the cemetery. And the president later said to his aides you guys should have given me better options. I look terrible. That's what we reported, and that's kind of where we are.

CAMEROTA: That is really interesting, actually, Josh, that he wanted to go and that he suggested driving and it was maybe the White House chief of staff who said, no, it would be too much of a logical nightmare. That is important context.

DAWSEY: I don't think it was the fact it was president was balking at going to a cemetery totally. We saw that at a cemetery the next day. It wasn't that he was totally against the idea of giving the military respect. He was just given options that said this could be difficult to make it happen, and he went along with that. I think when he was frustrated later was that it looked that he was avoiding the rain, he was avoiding the drive, he was avoided any sort of onerous activity, and the president said that wasn't the case. You guys should have done better at giving me better options.

[08:05:10] CAMEROTA: Josh Dawsey, we really appreciate you sharing your reporting with us. Thanks so much.

DAWSEY: Thank you.

BERMAN: John?

Have I got a special treat for you now. Three political commentators from CNN, Errol Louis, Matt Lewis, Bakari Sellers. Very exciting this morning.

Errol, I want to start with you here because we just heard from Josh Dawsey. His articles, "Five Days of Fury." There is a lot going on between the staff shakeups that might be happening any time soon, hours and hours of meetings with Robert Mueller. The president still fuming over the France meeting.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You didn't mention the 600- point drop in the Dow. He's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. This is part of what happens when you sit in the Oval Office. He's got problems, some of which could have been anticipated. The reality is after a midterm loss of the dimensions that this party and this president just suffered, you normally do get a shakeup. So there have been some festering problems. You have this one-off with Ms. Ricardel which is a whole east wing kind of a flap, as well as the international problem. So it's been a tough week to be president of the United States.

CAMEROTA: So just to backpedal a little bit, Matt. The "Washington Posts" Josh Dawsey is reporting that he was so frustrated with the trip that he's itching to make changes. This is about the staff changes that could be coming this week. This is a week where things could get really dicey. As John and I point out, get.

BERMAN: Could.

CAMEROTA: Could. So, I think there is a feeling in the White House of being on tenterhooks, of not knowing what the next shoe to drop is.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is starting to feel like the baptism scene in "The Godfather." The post-midterm cycle here, it started with Jeff Sessions being fired, and now we're talking about maybe even John Kelly. And I have to tell you I think that you guys have been talking about it all morning, but you can't divorce, for lack of a better word, you can't take out the first lady aspect from this story. I really think that's a big, big part of it.

And it occurs to me when you compare it to Ronald Reagan, we've been talking about how Nancy Reagan essentially fired the chief of staff Don Regan. You go back and look at that guy's resume. He was a marine. He was an executive I think at Merrill Lynch or something, and then he was treasury secretary. Not a guy who would come up through the ranks as a political operatives.

When you work on campaigns, one of the first things you learn is you never pick a fight with the spouse because you cannot win that fight. Reagan's early team Mike Deaver and James Baker understood that. I think that John Kelly and some of these folks over working for Bolton don't quite understand that. They haven't probably worked in the campaign world. You are not going to want to fight with Melania.

BERMAN: It is interesting to me, though, but this issue with the first lady takes it to a different level, too, which is staff shakeups are common. Dysfunction inside any administration to an extent is common. What's uncommon is a press release like this, Bakari, where the first lady's office, the first lady and her office, feels like they need to send a message on paper because that message isn't being delivered either in person or otherwise. So this seems even a little bit more, or a little sideways of normal dysfunction.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I actually think that it kind of flies in the face of those who say that Melania Trump has so much power. The reason being, you say those things in public which you cannot say in private. So apparently she didn't feel comfortable enough saying it to her husband, saying it to John Kelly, or she wanted to make sure her husband saw the way she felt.

But I know that we just used a Nancy Reagan reference. But I want to ask my colleagues on the right who are watching this morning, what if Michelle Obama had called for the firing of the second highest ranking member or the deputy national security adviser. The knives would be out. And so for her to have this type of influence on a very, very important position all because we're fighting over the number of seats on a plane and who can fly on it is absurd. But it also shows that this White House is chaotic and somewhat of a circus.

And I'll push back on you a little bit, John, because we do see dysfunction. But this is dysfunction on steroids. I don't think we've ever seen a White House that is literally "The Apprentice" every single week.

INGRAHAM: Errol, it is always fun to play what if President Obama did this or what if Michelle Obama did this, but sometimes your imagination explodes when you try to do that exercise, like the one that Bakari just suggested. So if the president is displeased, as the reports say, with Chief of Staff John Kelly, this is a problem because he normally tasks John Kelly with firing people that have run afoul of the president. And, so, what does he do? He doesn't like, as we know, personal confrontation. So now what?

[08:10:03] LOUIS: This is a problem. The president cannot run the White House the way "The Apprentice" laid out where it is kind of random and it's almost whimsical and you can take it back and you can entertain people along the way. It's not that at all.

And we should remember that, look, deeply into American politics is that your team really matters. Not just because Donald Trump said he was going to get the best people. It goes all the way back to the very first cabinet when President Washington had a guy named Hamilton who was his treasury secretary and Jefferson who was his secretary of state. These people matter. They are big public figures. And how they are treated and how they are selected and directed and deployed is part of what makes for a good or a bad president. So he's going to have to really changed from what worked on "The Apprentice" and do something entirely different as far as getting his staff in line.

BERMAN: It's interesting you say he's going to have to change, because Matt Lewis, to you, this morning I woke up to an op-ed from Mark Sanford, outgoing Republican Congressman from South Carolina who we're going to speak to in a little bit. Eric Cantor, the former number two among Republicans in the House, and also we talked to Tom Ridge who is part of this new group of Republican lawyers called Checks and Balances trying to restrain to some extent the president of the United States. It seems like a lot of Republicans, albeit more establishment Republicans, are waking up this morning saying, Mr. President, you better listen to these midterm elections. You better pay attention to what happened, and you better change. But I'm not sure he's going to listen.

LEWIS: Well, look, we have an interesting pattern in modern American history. And that pattern is president almost always do horrible in their first midterm, and they almost always end up getting reelected. And I don't want to confuse correlation with causation, but I think it's safe to suspect that what happens is that they are chastened. They lose, and then they figure out, hey, we've got to get our act together. We've got two years to do it. Look at Bill Clinton triangulating and pivoting and ending up winning easily in 96 after the big Republican revolution.

The problem is I can't imagine Donald Trump being the introspective kind of guy to learn any sort of lesson from this setback. He's not going to change. He's not going to change his character. He's not going to pivot. I think infrastructure week will probably never happen.

BERMAN: It's always happening.

CAMEROTA: We've been waiting a long time.

LEWIS: The only tool he has is to change other people around him. And that's what he's doing right now.

CAMEROTA: Bakari, after the president came out, after the midterms, and took a victory lap about how well it went for Republicans, and as we discussed that morning, some of the candidates, obviously the highest profile candidates did not win that night, is it heartening for you to hear that behind the scenes the president's mood has turned sour because of the midterms?

SELLERS: I don't know if it's heartening for me. In fact, I think one of the decisions he's making by firing Secretary Nielsen, she should have resigned months ago. She's incompetent and inept at her job. So kudos to the White House for doing that. I get nervous when the president of the United States has two things. One is time, because when he has time, he's dangerous. And, two, I get nervous when he feels as if his back against the wall. One of the things we haven't talked about in this entire segment is the looming impact of the Mueller investigation. And that type of pressure on anybody can cause them to do some radical things. So for me it is not heartening at all. It is more trepidation. It is trepidation for this country. It's trepidation for someone who is lashing out at other world leaders and berating them on phone calls. And so I would respond to you, Alisyn, that I'm nervous and scared. I'm not heartened at all.

BERMAN: Errol Louis, Bakari Sellers, Matt Lewis, I don't want people to think that Bakari's controlling our run down, but our very next segment we are going to be speaking about the Mueller investigation because President Trump's lawyers met with the president for hours on Monday and Tuesday. They could submit some written answers very shortly. We'll discuss this and much more with a Democratic member of the House Intelligence and Judiciary Committees. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[8:17:43] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump's legal team met Monday to go over a series of written questions from special counsel Robert Mueller. Sources now say the president may submit answers to those questions focused on collusion with Russia in the coming days.

Joining us now is Democratic congressman from California, Representative Eric Swalwell. He's a member of the House Intel and Judiciary Committees. And we should also note, considering a run for president.

Congressman, thank you for being with us.

We saw Michael Cohen in Washington. We know the president is preparing these written answers. From your vantage point, is this investigation winding down?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: Good morning, John.

I hope so. We want Bob Mueller to be able to follow the evidence. But, of course, when witnesses lie or when they tamper with other witnesses or when they refuse to sit down with the special counsel when they have been given the questions, it takes longer. And so, I think most Americans want to see this come to a natural conclusion.

BERMAN: Who are you suggesting is lying and tampering?

SWALWELL: Well, people have been charged and have pled guilty to lying and tampering like Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulos. Paul Manafort had additional charges added because he was trying to coerce witnesses. The president is tweeting at the jurors essentially. He's also tweeting at his -- he was tweeting at Jeff Sessions throughout the investigation.

So, you know, when he's stacking new lines of inquiry with his continuing conduct, it's just going to take longer.

BERMAN: Do you have reason to believe there will be more indictments this week?

SWALWELL: You know, I have seen a number of people just through press reporting go to the grand jury. And in my experience as a prosecutor, you can interview witnesses without going to the grand jury and you take witnesses to the grand jury when you are going towards an indictment. You don't want to waste the grand jury's time unless you are zeroing in. And it looks like he's probably zeroing in.

And you have one grand jury witness, Jerome Corsi, who says that he's been told he's going to be indicted.

BERMAN: Yes, the problem with Jerome is that he's not very credible on a range of subjects, so we don't know whether to believe him.

SWALWELL: Yes.

BERMAN: Matt Whitaker is the acting attorney general. You said he was appointed to serve as an assassin, to somehow kill the Mueller investigation. What did you mean?

SWALWELL: Well, he has pre-judged the investigation in a number of different forums where he's spoken about it. He also -- Vox has reported that the president and Mr. Whitaker have been plotting Mr. Whitaker's takeover of the department for some months now.

[08:15:02] And I think it's clear that the president would like to see this investigation ended.

But, John, fortunately, the American people spoke last week. They want a balance of power on any abuses of power. And we're not powerless. We can actually make sure that this investigation continues.

BERMAN: Let me just play you though, because you did use the word assassin there.

Adam Kinzinger, who's on our show yesterday who is, you know, as far as Republicans, people said he said he likes you, he says you guys are friends. But he took issue with your level of rhetoric. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: If they tried to shut down this investigation, there's a lot of us (INAUDIBLE). I don't think it's happening. And I think there's all this like, people are ginned up and upset about something that's not coming. But that is an inflammatory tweet by Swalwell. He needs to be called out for that, too.

And, frankly, if we could move forward and get along, that's great. If not, at least let's tone down the rhetoric, both sides, our side, Democratic side, and actually give the American people a functioning political system. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Right. And you're responsible for your words. So, how do you take what the Congressman Kinzinger said?

SWALELL: Our democracy is on the ropes right now, John, and I'm going to defend it. I have invited Mr. Kinzinger and others to join on to my bill to have an independent commission to look at what Russia did, to take it out of Congress because I think it is too politically charged. I also hope that Mr. Kinzinger would support the protect Mueller legislation.

But now is not the time for words. It is a time for deeds. And whether it's the press being attacked or whether it's the rule of law being attacked, we need to stand up for what makes our country such a great country.

BERMAN: You are a member from California, and you support your fellow California member Nancy Pelosi in becoming the next speaker, correct?

SWALWELL: I do.

BERMAN: You are aware or let me tell you if you are not, Filemon Vela and Seth Moulton say they are 100 percent confident that they can forge new leadership. They are 100 percent certain they can defeat Nancy Pelosi.

SWALWELL: I don't think that's going to happen. I was 100 percent all in on getting new members elected who are in their 40s or under. And we have 26 new members in the party who are going to bring transformational leadership.

But right now, John, it is the fourth quarter. We are going into the last two years of the presidency that, as I said, has put our democracy on the ropes and taken away health care protections. And we have a very skillful architect of the Affordable Care Act. That issue was on the ballot, and I would like to see her do all she can to lead us and protect what Americans count on when they go to the doctor and the protections that they need.

BERMAN: You do see some tension there. You're talking about Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn, and you're also calling for transformational leadership. Are they transformational leadership?

SWALWELL: Right. I believe that they are the leadership that we need right now. Transformation leadership will be, I think, what the American people can see coming behind them, the next iteration for our party. We elected a class that is as diverse as America. We've got CIA officers, veterans, community advocates. It is exciting to see some new energy ideas and confidence coming to Congress.

BERMAN: When do you need to decide if you are going to run for president?

SWALWELL: Boy, John. You know, I have a wife who is taking care of a three week old right now. That is weighing heavily on me, but probably after the turn of the year.

I will say when I look at what the country is looking at right now, I look at all of those new, young members who are elected and I think a page forward is the best thing for our country, not going back in time.

BERMAN: All right. The first step in running for president, not answering the direct question of when you need to decide by.

Congressman Eric Swalwell, we do appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us.

SWALWELL: Of course, always, John. Thanks.

BERMAN: Congratulations on the birth of, I believe, your second child?

SWALWELL: That's right.

BERMAN: I remember when the first one was born. Thank you, Congressman.

Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: John, wait until you see this video. There is this new survival story we have to show you. It emerged from the California wildfires. This is a firsthand account of this life or death drive. We have seen a lot of these. This one is particularly harrowing, and we'll hear about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:50] BERMAN: Breaking news this morning: the death toll from the California wildfires now stands at 50. That's up from 48. Forty- eight of the deaths now are linked to the Camp Fire alone. Another blaze, the Sierra Fire just broke out in San Bernardino County.

Our Bill Weir has more from the front lines of the Woolsey Fire near Malibu.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some of the canyons above Malibu look like the surface of a lifeless planet with almost nothing left to burn. But all it takes is one hot ember riding a gust of wind into another canyon, and suddenly, there's a whole new front in this war with mother nature.

(on camera): Imagine living down in that valley and realizing the only thing between your entire life and that wall of flame are these incredible pilots. Not just helicopter pilots, but big tanker jet pilots who are bouncing around in these 40, 50-mile an hour gusts, trying to precisely hit those spots.

(voice-over): This flare up near Lake Sherwood scrambled a full aerial assault with helicopters big and small, fixed wing tankers bombing the flames with the jelly like retardant, drop after drop costing California millions of dollars.

Pacific Ocean water is cheaper, though less effective, but things are so desperate, this day brought the surreal sight of surfers and super scoopers sharing a lineup at Malibu Beach.

STEVE DUNN, MALIBU RESIDENT: There's a license plate out here that says, Malibu, way of life. I always hated that. They should have flames on one side and mudslide on the other.

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR (on camera): The cost of paradise, right?

(voice-over): Steve Dunn is among the lifetime locales who ignored the evacuation order and resents some parts of the response like the way Pepperdine University was allowed to shelter students in place even as an inferno surrounded the campus.

DUNN: I understand there is a lot of kids that don't have transportation, so it would be difficult to get them all out. But the locals believe it is because they wanted the fire department to protect the school and they used the students as a pawn.

DR. ANDY BENTON, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: That's such a perverse expression of misunderstanding and maybe even fear. We did not lock students in.

WEIR: Andy Benton is the president of Pepperdine.